Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) stepped into the boiling debate over the H1-B visa program and took aim at tech billionaire Elon Musk.

The progressive senator on Thursday called out Musk for his passionate defense of U.S. companies hiring foreign workers through the program – which reportedly includes Tesla. And he had his own theory of why the world’s richest man is in favor of the visa program.

“Elon Musk is wrong,” Sanders wrote Thursday in a post to his X account. “The main function of the H-1B visa program is not to hire ‘the best and the brightest,’ but rather to replace good-paying American jobs with low-wage indentured servants from abroad. The cheaper the labor they hire, the more money the billionaires make.”

Over the past week, tensions have flared in MAGA world after Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy called for an increase in H-1B visa and suggested U.S. workers were not up to par with foreign workers. President-elect Donald Trump – who tapped the two billionaires to lead the Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE, – publicly sided with Musk on the issue.

But Sanders, who chairs the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions, waded into the debate armed with facts. In a statement attached to his social media post, the Vermont senator continued his attacks on Musk using labor figures, Census Bureau data, and the hiring track record of Musk’s own company.

“If there is really a shortage of skilled tech workers in America, why did Tesla lay-off over 7,500 American workers this year – including many software developers and engineers at its factory in Austin, Texas – while being approved to employ thousands of H1-B guest workers?” Sanders wrote.

He also criticized Tesla’s starting rates for H1-B guest workers for jobs like associate accountants, associate mechanical engineers and associate material planners – which he said are “as little as” $58,000, $70,000 and $80,000 a year, respectively

“Those don’t sound like highly specialized jobs that are for the top 0.1 percent as Musk claimed this week,” Sanders said.

He took one more shot at Musk as he concluded his takedown.

“Bottom line. It should never be cheaper for a corporation to hire a guest worker from overseas than an American worker,” Sanders wrote.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Sounds like Musk with the support of Trump is using his role for his own selfish interest at the expense of the American worker.

It's going to be a long 4 years.

lol...you can’t make this up...it's should now be clear that the Dems prefer illegal immigrants to legal one's...there are some checks and balances to the H1-B visa system to prevent workers being taken advantage of...there are non for the illegal migrants...Bernie is a hypocrite of note.

Tump never was against legal immigration and attacked th pen Border Policy of Biden that allowed illegal entry into the USA by circa 11 million illegals withut any checks about who enmtered he country illegally.    The scream of the DP always was that Trump will forbid entry of people needed for essentail service provision.in the country in reas where there are insufficient peple qualicfied in the emdical and computerization ervices where the  USA has had serious education deficiencies for decades. 

You are right the en attacks on Trump by the DP and their media supporters is t attack Musk because he and  Ramaswamy was appointed by Trump to clean ut cruption and incompetece leading to wasteful expenditure by the  Feeral Public Service and the issue of legal immigrati is normal diversion tactic by the DP and their media supporters from action be taken against illegal migrants 

he coditins are indicated in the following website of the USA Government and what Trump aims at is to prevent abse by emploayers of a system that has been i place for years:-

https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/h-1b-specialty-occupations, 

The attack on Trump is that he was going to ban both legal and illegal migration ito the USA - which was a lie,   To allow limitless illegal migration in terms of Biden's Open Barder policies was not based on work needs at all an ahd no ch ecks nd balances to prevent undermining US citizens when it comes to emplyment and prevet entry of ciminals into the USA.

Musk is no under attack by the fake emia that he is ruling over Trmp when it comes to the Presidency and the same BS as was the case in the Russian Hoax  BS is now aimed at Musk,   I find it hilarious - Trump will establish a dictatorial system by appiying techniques used by the Biden Administration against political opponents  over the past fur years.

And then there is the retribution BS by the Democrats as ell as BS of collusion between Musk and Putin to end the Ukraine War,    It is unbelievable how the sanke media in the USA twist and turn to find ssues theycan attack Trump on even when they have no  idea about weat Trump is going to d when dealing with issues.   In the meantime the main polem leding to he fake stories in the emdia is in act baed on one source - the disinformation service of the Demcrats in the next 18 days.    

What the D P fear most is the elimination of  incompetence, wasteful expediture and bribery and corrption in the dederal bureacracy nd their political allies in the DP bsed entirely on lie nd costing the Federal Gvernment rillions.

This is just screaming about an issue that never was an issue in te eelction and their new bogeyman is Musk - somebody they did everything for and turn vicious wen he foind how far left the DP establishment ebcame.   

I do not care a hoot about what the most corrupt governance system in the western world comes up with - disinormation an lies will keep flooding in s longa s Trump is going to len up the rot in the U SA.  .

       .               .                          .    

But then there is this little bit .......conveniently ignored, care to explain????

“If there is really a shortage of skilled tech workers in America, why did Tesla lay-off over 7,500 American workers this year – including many software developers and engineers at its factory in Austin, Texas – while being approved to employ thousands of H1-B guest workers?” Sanders wrote.

He also criticized Tesla’s starting rates for H1-B guest workers for jobs like associate accountants, associate mechanical engineers and associate material planners – which he said are “as little as” $58,000, $70,000 and $80,000 a year, respectively

The above quotes is not really the case.   When cross-cecking info the mdia has been mentioned anything between 14 000 and 2880 workers aving been dismissed at the tesla workers and some ave neen hired back already.   Based on acual reports is that sale of eelctric vehicles hve not reached the envisaged level and manufacturers sit with tens of thusands of unsold vehicles and the fct is that if such sales does pick up all companied ill etur to production levels.  So it is not only Tesla that laid off workers - other manufacturers  did the same.

Under Trump the BS about Green policies drawn up by Bill gates will be eeliminated and a return to ordinary vehicles  nanufacture will increase accordingly.     Ina ny effecct the categor of HI-B has nothin g to do with that category of people and Bernie is out on his campaign to bluff orkers again.  

Wat si misleading is what cagegories of HI-B issuis is BS and te wage quotes ae misleading sincde it does no reflect  pay rates for wrkers paid to US citizens.   One h tw oner why tis type of reporting is all over the show in the media  - and could be the normal practice of lying to the pubic.         

Whoooosh! 

Here have another read.

“If there is really a shortage of skilled tech workers in America, why did Tesla lay-off over 7,500 American workers this y ear – including many software developers and engineers at its factory in Austin, Texas – while being approved to employ thousands of H1-B guest workers?” Sanders wrote.

Sanders were talking shit.   The category of workers that enters as legal immigrants iro H1-B are not mechanics working in factories like Tesla - they are absically in computer science and medical and nursing staff,   

Trump and the Big Tech Oligarchs love  H1-B visas. They are the best way to suppress American wage growth by ensuring supply outstrips demand. 

H1B also has the advantage of 5 years of underpaid slave labour to be eligible for a green card.
The employer has them over a barrel. If their green card is not approved, they must return to India where they will still work for the US company. 

A company like IBM now employs more people in India, than within the US. This is giving away intellectual property to another country while decreasing opportunities in the US. 

If there are local employees to serve that market in their language etc that makes sense, but moving jobs from the the US (Or the West) into other markets does not help the interests of the majority of where that company operates.

Why did Tesla lay off workers. Because for the first time ever their ‘cars sold’ number dropped in 2024, when undoubtedly they were staffed for a continuation of strong growth. Meanwhile all AI related tech companies are staffing up dramatically.

A pathetic gotcha attempt by old Bernie, immediately parroted by Quisling. 

How many successful companies did Bernie start?

How many people has he employed?

How much tax has he generated for the US?

LMAO!

"How many successful companies did Bernie start?"

There were 5 nominees that Trump nominated  that did get votes = all he othes did nt get any votes - hey wer n candiayes in any election.  Musk was one such a nominee the media and the DP nd thei crrupt colleagues in the bureaucacy are  afraid of what will happen when they cleared out the corrupt loafers and those that wil get fired just because the review has not as yet uncover kickbacks to them.   The rest will transfer fromtheir office to jail.  

In jail they will be joined by one of  your poitical heroes Adam Schiff.   T he idiot operate the folowing system     In the period Obama was Pesident  the  $1 billion aid grant to Ukraine was not any weapon supply to Ukraine bcause he was afraid of Russian reaction to such supplies.  When Trump got in as President he change that and ordered that the $1 bilion grant for military aid must be paid ove to te Ukraine Government.   That is where Adam Schiff got involved.   About  $500 million of the aid grant went to Stepanek - a Ukraine arms manufacturer - who promptly registered a subsidairy company in the USA and appinted two staff mmbes of Schiff as the US Biard mony and Stepanek used the subsudiary to kick bachk 10% of the lot to Schiff,  Through that sbsidia flowed millions to Shoff and Stepanek took over th fundin g of Schiff's election campaigmn from Geoge Sorors.   Wray knew what was going on - but hushed up the scam  by refusing to investigate it.    That is why the Democrats hate the appointment of Patel - at the time at the WH in 2019 to 2021 he found out about most of the scams Biden, Pelosi and Schiff was involved in.    When Trump foud out about the scam he froze all foreign id progam - also iro Ukraine until the  S tate  Department and Treasury Department provide a program to prevent kickbacks and decided to buy arms in the US and sent teha rmmaments to Ukraine,   He fiorbid all cask transfes to kraine and that hit Nancy Peosi and they concocted a scheme to try and impeach Trmp based n BS they concocted about a fake report onm what Trmp discussed with Zelenskyy,  

They are well on their way to jail and the pardoning scam started with Hunter Biden to avoid further investigation of the con artists involved.    Will no work since the courts will throw out the pardons/    So Schiff is one of the first candidates to get ino jail.   Trump will pardon Biden because Biden is clueless about what he did and denied for instance that he stop the death psentences of mulitple killers,   He will be considered a mentally retarded and no court will send him to jail - so he would end up in a care scenter for mentally redarded people/   But the rest will end their lives in jail.   That include Wray as well.

The Chinese have a curse that state "May yiu live in interesting timesss".   It ctually means they wish the man get into trouble and the interesting times often end abruptly when they are excecited,   So the Democrats are now living in interesting times they would go and play monopoly in jail .                .         .       

Bernie is commenting on business. So it's pertinent to enquire as to his business experience.

...since his credentials, or lack there of, would tell you how seriously you should take his comments.

Now here’s something truly stupid  from the Peeper.:

Brnie's claim t fame that he own  4 homes - he got a fourth home in compension  his withdrawal as candidate in the 2020 primary eletions - so he in fact owned  homes,  He is a typical career politician they somehow manage to increase their assets within a frmework that can be abused by scoundrels.  He is acording to known factrs he became a millionaire after enering Senate and his minimum aasset value is at least  $3 million.    

He is a typical career .poliiciaan and an example that term linits should be introduced like applied to  execitives i the USA,   Career politicians found means to get wealthy through inside trading and kickbacks.   An example is Pelosi the iside trading master,   In 2024 a contract was awarded a  $156 bilioncntrct to develop a new compute service for the DOD and Biden was addressing Congress about subsidizing e;ectroc veicle prduction.   eszle of electic vehicles,   A week before the above hppened Paul Pelosi bought $10 million worth of IBM shares and $3 million buying Tesla shares,  

Another example is Obama - when he became  Senator in 2004 he declared his assets as $100 000 - four years later when he became  president he declared his assets a $3,5 million.   Before he got deals from Netflix or for his book he bought 5 luxury homes to the value of $32 million.    A normal enrichmnt example - mostlyby illegal means.   The Clintons arrived in Washington and is now worth over $200 million.   They collected money from various intitutions  paying te Clinton Foudation - the most imprtant beingthe Clinton Enrichment program that ensure 90% of the donations goes to the Clinton benefot fund,   Years ago Musk stated that votes in the Senate could be bought by ousiders for as little as $10 000/.     

That kind of conduct could be eliminated by term limits - an issue vigorously  opposed by Democrats  and even some Republicans  members of the Senate and the House,     It was Preident Trueman who said the pay of politicians are too small fo them  to become wealthy   Since his time enriching of career politicians carried on full-steam.  While Pelosi was a House member the net value value of the Pelosi family  increased from circa $5 million to ove $600 milion at present.

In the USA there is wide scale debate on te issue of introduction of tem limits and the rot would bes topped b terms limits for all policians.    Bernie is just ne example of the needs for term limits.

But term limits would not keep a lot of politicians  out of jail. 

BB

Glad you come up with that  photo - really admitting  that the comments of  Denny and you werc childish and that Rooinek's comments were worse than childiness - it is plain idiocy,

LMAO    

ouMaaik, have a laugh, it increases longevity.

Thanks BB

I enjoyed the above - since it cass me to laugh.     

As Trump, the fascist f'wit constructs his inner circle oligarchy .

LMAO

"As Trump, the fascist f'wit constructs his inner circle oligarchy ."

I know you really believe that, but you are dead wrong.

Was it necessary for the f'wit to criticise Ukraine for a missile strike in Russia ?

https://www.rferl.org/a/trump-atacms-ukraine-russia/33237728.html

Trump Criticizes Decision To Allow Ukraine To Strike ...

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/dispatches/what-does-it-mean-that-donald-trump-is-a-fascist

What Does It Mean That Donald Trump Is a Fascist?

Stav failed to prove racism, never mind fascism, on the other thread. And he tried every trick in the book.

This is the same as calling the guy driving a little too quickly on a suburban road "crazed lunatic".

It simply for dramatic effect. The only problem being that in this case it's in particular bad taste.

...but they feel okay doing it because monkey see in the news so monkey repeat.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=bd b96888ff296c81&q=images+of+destruction+in+ukraine&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0Aa4sjWe7Rqy32pFwRj0UkWd8nbOJfsBGGB5IQQO6L3JzWreY9LW7LdGrLDAFqYDH2bHZiU5SwFHpsjQQXz5AGY6jlY7gWv7XWy5rTU4GJzBeXtQ0Mc_h_riluNWyJq6uPkIPkrDYhUvIGy45WJtMq0gaw098BkHp7wX61EufyDThkKlGBOmtlEaN0PKBh66c_rmQIgsH3cqfKgopw5O0CY50Yrvw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjv38Kn79yKAxWGbvUHHRMJIC8QtKgLegQIERAB

Blob for heaven sake get a grip. 

Stav was right ............... 

No he wasn't. 

Listen BB

Please gve me aan honst answer - you alege that Trump is a Fascist and accuse Him of speading hatred - but is that not ahtespreading by people like you.?   So are you not spreadin hatred yorself based on media opinion pieces?

Then about retribution - is their any poof that Trump is going to implement retribution againsta anybody,    He never did hen hew as Preisdent before,    On what do you base thst story  about him remaining as Presidnt until his death?     I am not going to join the New Yorker to re that storym   

I do nt believe in hatespreading - but is what the emdia are accusing him of not tereason why their were two assassination attempts on Trump.     Wa there eve any court case where under ath anbdy  accused him of being a racist.   Trump owned businesses worldwide employing thiousands of people of all races - has there ever een a case whee in court he is proven to be a racist?  

Has Trump ever used the FBI or CIA  to spy on his opponents like Biden did over the last four years.     If Trump did that it would prove that he is indeed a Fascist, but it bever happened while he was President before - so why would he do that in futire,    The fact  that the Foreign Intelligence  Service Court found that the FBI unconstitutionally and illegally did that in espect of 278 000 people - but according to wistleblwers the numbe of such invesigsatio was spying on more than a million opponents of the Biden Rgime and when Wray was asked in how many cases the FBI acted ilegally on that score - Wray refused to answer the question.    Is spying on political opponents by the FBI not a totalitarian action?

What is weird too is how come Biden complained that Garland as AG delayed the court cases against Trump when in fact there were no evidence of any misdemeanours on Trump's part.   The comments confirmed that the Court cases were in fact part of the Democratic Party election cmapaign.   Why did none of the cases made headway in Courts, since appeals if he a found guilty and sentenced  would have occurreed and that is where the situation would have been thrown out of court since none of the casess were true and of any value at all.   Using the Courts against opposing political opponents is not what happened in totalitarian states?      

Was it not that when it became clear that Harris could not win the eection that in the 14 days before election date the DP and the leftit media started an all out campaign  accusing Trump of being a Fascist becoming doing  what the DP in fact did becoming the main propagand item in the media? 

There is on issue that the DP and the media are hiding from the voters and that relates to bribery and corruption involvig both politicians and bureaucrats.    When the banks informed the FBI that the Biden's are using  shelf comapnies to launder money paid into the companies by foreign companies to members of the Biden family and Biden himself one would expect that the FBI and Justice Depatment would have investigate the banks findings - but the FBI did no such investigation.    But that was not the only problem  - why did the FBI told the media that the Hunter Biden Laptop was Russian disinformation while they knew it was not.   Why did the FBI not followed up on obvious criminaliy by the Bidens refused to investigate the bribery transactions listed in the Laptop and never investigated it?   

But it  not the only problems - hy did the FBI and Justice department not acted when the Auditor General reported to Congress that $5,4 billion in Covid assistance funds vanished into thin air?    Why is it that in Audit reports indicated that the Public Servants could not account what happened to money the DOD and Homelands Security spent - about  $500 billion.   What was involved and on what was the money spent?   Was incompetece or corruption involved?   The FBI refused to investigate what happened to that massive amount of money?   The reaal reason is that the USA turned into a looting paradise and with Trump's election the issues the FBI tried to hush up will be investifgated,    The real fact is that corruption in the USA bcame a major problem and the use of Fscism allegation  in fact is aimed at preventing Trump from becoming President,    The problem is that the allegations did not work out either and my personal foreast is that a major assassintion attempt is going to happen during the next 15 days - the criminals involved is in serious danger of not only losing their jobs - but will end up in prison -  and the oganization would not be secret and be involving a small number of bureaucrats and the next effort will be organized on a much wider basis and will involve both the FBI, the DOD and the CIA,    In other words it would be a coup and that is going to mov the USA into a full dictatorship - since te political nd bureaucratic establisment cannot afford that Trump becomes the next USA President.   and Vance becoming the VP,   Since that would create a political vacuum and the  DP ,is going to have them both eliminated and would ue it to remain in control of government.       

        .   ,                                   ,        .          .     .        

     .

.         

TDS is once again driving the anti Trump bunch dilly.

SHAME.

FOUR MORE YEARS.

800 × 600

LMAO!

Rooinek 

Careful I knw your arse have taken ver yor brin and your arse is ruling your brain hen it comes to  thinking.   Did not know your arse could laugh idiot.   

This is  fascism in action…you trivialize the horror by using the term for people you disagree with politically.

This is also fascism.

To get to the point in that picture you posted you have to go through a lot of the above first.

You made such a short post yet managed to make tw o misrepresentations of the other side. We are not trivializing the horrors of fascism, we are warning people of the potential dangers of the road some people want to travel down.

And we are not labeling all we disagree with as Fascists. Mike Pence was not a fascist, Niki Haley was not a fascist, John McCain was not a fascist. We only apply the label where it fits.

"Your counter argument effectively amounted to...no its not, then you tried to argue someone can't be racist unless they have been legally charged but eventually conceded that point when I was able to point out examples of rally attendees clearing holding up racist signs and facing no legal consequences."

What a joke.

My argument was "Meet the test for racism as considered by any court on earth."

Your argument was "My feelings about racism are more accurate than a legal test."

I didn't declare victory, you just failed to provide any evidence, that meets any legal standard...ANYWHERE.

So you gave up...

Lol and now you're claiming that I simply said "No, cos I say so" when that is not at all what I did...and when in fact it's you that said "It is, cos I say so."

Pretty hilarious stuff, Stav.

Let's quickly blow up Stavs argument...

" Historically, fascist regimes used dehumanizing language to label and isolate groups, often without evidence, to justify marginalization or violence. Modern politicians using terms like “racist” or “bigot” without substantial proof can create a similar dynamic in terms of “othering,” which divides people into moral or ideological categories."

When the politicians below say things like "Trump supporters"...you'll note how they often don't say "some". Meaning they are referring to ALL. So they are obviously othering all Trump's supporters and very obviously don't have evidence for doing that. Just as Hitler accused Jews of being things without evidence, there's Dem politicians are making accusations without evidence. We can get into discussing the massive division his has caused in US society, but I'm guessing Stav won't want to talk about that.

So, applying your same standard, I guess all these Dem politicians are fascists...

Hillary Clinton: “You could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. They’re racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic—you name it.” ?

Joe Biden: “The only garbage I see floating out there is his supporters.” ?

Nancy Pelosi: “They’re trying to make America white again.”

Bernie Sanders: “Some of these folks are, they’re racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic.”

Beto O’Rourke: “Those who support Trump are complicit in racism.”

Cory Booker: “There are definitely Trump supporters who are hateful and bigoted.”

Pete Buttigieg: “There are a lot of committed racists whose vote he [Trump] is going to get.”

Who'd have thought there are so many fascists in the Dem party?

My argument was "Meet the test for racism as considered by any court on earth."

Your argument was "My feelings about racism are more accurate than a legal test."

My argument was a person can be racist without facing legal charges. A point which you conceded, which fatally holes your argument below the waterline.

Are you going to apply this standard of demanding something holds up in court for every topic under discussion. Can't wait for you to produce legal evidence of the deep state, or Biden wasn't really the acting President, that  Covid leaked from a lab etc etc. 

So, applying your same standard, I guess all these Dem politicians are fascists...

Hillary Clinton: “You could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. They’re racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic—you name it.” ? 

I do think a substantial section of Trump's supporters are that way. But not half.

Joe Biden: “The only garbage I see floating out there is his supporters.” ?

Awful comment for Biden to make. But was made in the context of Trump Porto Rico island of garbage comments.  Come back to me when Biden is on record denigrating peoples of a different ethnicity than his with the same frequency that Trump does and then we will talk.

Nancy Pelosi: “They’re trying to make America white again.”

Pelosi wasn't othering anyone here, she wasn't referring to Trump's supporters, she was talking about Trumps immigration plans.

Bernie Sanders: “Some of these folks are, they’re racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic.”

Beto O’Rourke: “Those who support Trump are complicit in racism.”

Cory Booker: “There are definitely Trump supporters who are hateful and bigoted.”

Pete Buttigieg: “There are a lot of committed racists whose vote he [Trump] is going to get.”

All these are pretty accurate comments.

Got love how you construe calling out racism and fascist's as fascism. By that logic Churchill and Roosevelt were fascists.

Anger please try to be just a little honest. Nobody thinks of Oswald Mosley when you call Hitler a fascist. They think of Adolph Hitler. Proof….all the cartoons posted on here and elsewhere of Trump in a  Nazi uniform.

Nice try but the kind of fascism passing through most peoples’ minds is far more linked to the image I posted. And even though I’m not a fan of the nationalistic rallies, to imply Trump is capable of what Hitler did, is disgraceful.

Stav

I hav e a few questions for you and hope for an honest answer:

1    Is the finding that the FBI illegallly and Unonctitutionally spied on US citizens - as found by the FIS Court not indication of dictstorisl conducct under the Biden Administration?   The figures varied  but the Court had written confirmation that it happened to 278 000 people - but there are indications and reports that indicate it happned to 1 300 000 people 

2    Is usage of the FBI and CIA to force media not to publish news critical of the Biden Rgime not what can be expeced from a dictatorial Gvernment - especially when they use lies to stengthen their case?

3    Is keeping people in jail for 4 years without a trial not dictatorial conduct?

4    Is lawfaae in election year against Trump in line with the US Constitution - especially in the end all cases colapsed because the effort was controlled by the Presidency and the DP not undermining  Democracy and in line with strategies used by dictatorships?

5   Do you relize that the majproty of the US voters oppose the Open Border Policy of Biden - so are the majority of vters supportes of a dictatorship?

*     D o you have any proof that Trump is a racist?  If you can find any proof - please provide?

*    Is there any indication and proof that Trump is going tp act against peple who resist his policies?    If you have any proof - please provide,  same.

*   Will retribution be used hen people are charged with bribwery and corruptionand looting of Government going to eb classified a :retribution?   

.      ,      

Anger please try to be just a little honest. Nobody thinks of Oswald Mosley when you call Hitler a fascist.

I wasn't saying he was literally Oswald Mosley. The picture was meant to reference the fact their is more to Fascism/Nazi than just the mass murders. Public speaking using fascist rhetoric played over a long period a key roll in conditioning the population to support the more extreme elements of an ideology.

Nice try but the kind of fascism passing through most peoples’ minds is far more linked to the image I posted. And even though I’m not a fan of the nationalistic rallies, to imply Trump is capable of what Hitler did, is disgraceful.

I've repeatedly said I don't think Trump will literally start gassing illegal immigrants. But he using the same type of lingo when talking about illegal immigrants that the fascists/Nazi's used to denigrate Jews and its a dangerous path to go down.

"Got love how you construe calling out racism and fascist's as fascism. By that logic Churchill and Roosevelt were fascists."

Churchill and Roosevelt were calling a demonstrably fascist regime fascist.

The difference being that they had clear proof for such.

You struggling, Stav?

I used your own reasoning. You said that dehumanising people and creating at atmosphere of "others" equates to fascism. Is that not exactly what the Dems have been doing? Does what category you putting the "others" into actually matter? The others are rapists...the others are thieves...the others are fascists...the others are anything that makes you think of them others and makes you feel like inhumane actions towards them are justified. What am I missing?

Your reasoning is, "I've accused you of murder, therefore you cannot accuse me of being a murderer, and I can be a murderer."

You're getting all tangled up in your logic here.

I used your own reasoning. You said that dehumanising people and creating at atmosphere of "others" equates to fascism. Is that not exactly what the Dems have been doing? Does what category you putting the "others" into actually matter? The others are rapists...the others are thieves...the others are fascists...the others are anything that makes you think of them others and makes you feel like inhumane actions towards them are justified. What am I missing?

What are you missing. How about reality.

The pre-programmed gas lighting that comes from the right is astounding. Just accuse the other side of the exact thing your side actually doing when they call you out on it.

You're getting all tangled up in your logic here.

Your whole logic is "I know you are but what am I" at this point.

Stav you re not really believing the following  do you?

The pre-programmed gas lighting that comes from the right is astounding. Just accuse the other side of the exact thing your side actually doing when they call you out on it.

What happened in reality and proven facts it is the normal practice of the Democratic Party that whenever they accuse the Republican Party of going to do somethings deemed dictatorial,  be assured that the Democrats is already doing it,

I asked you some questions above that you would not answer because you support diictatorial practices the  Biden Regime is guilty of.       

ouMaaik stop being a dick.

You are totally tangled up, Stav.

The logic that you used to justify "Trump the fascist" can just as easily be used turned around.

...at which point you claim it's nonsensical.

Were you a little less biased, you would obviously agree that the left have actually been othering the right endlessly for 8 years now. Remember the Sandman kid? Simply wearing a MAGA cap, and smiling was enough for him to be completely demonised in the media. That was ages ago, and a perfect example of kids being othered by the media, and leftist politicians. As I recall, the media ended up paying that kid a bunch of money for othering him.

Leftist media have, en masse, been shaming and othering Trump supporters for 8 years now. Racist, rednecks, fascists, homophobes, xenophobes...

You probably disagree that this qualifies as othering? Which, proves exactly how dangerous that type of othering is. It's right in front of you but you can't see it, because you refuse to, because the processing of othering that bought into blinds you.

Have a look at leftist commentary on Trimp's election win "He won because of racism and sexism." How many times did you hear that on leftist media and from leftist politicians. More othering, probably not, right?

The pot is really calling the kettle black.

So what is the logical thing to do? It's to rely on evidence. It's to look at legal standards and ask yourself how much of what you believe actually meets any of those standards.

But what you prefer to do, is to say that someone can be racist without being convicted of racism. That is obviously true. But if that's the logic you live by, without being willing to entertain the idea that at some point things have to meet some kind of standard, you may as well accuse anyone of anything and believe that your logic is supreme.

And it's precisely in that dream world where "others" are created.

When the German chancellor, Olaf Scholz, was asked in an interview about the barrage of insults being directed at him and other German leaders by Elon Musk, the world’s richest man, his reply was: “Don’t feed the troll.”

Speaking to the German weekly Stern, Scholz described the criticisms as nothing new. “You have to stay cool,” he said in the interview. “As Social Democrats, we have long been used to the fact that there are rich media entrepreneurs who do not appreciate social democratic politics – and do not hide their opinions.”

He said he would make no efforts to engage with Musk, who has endorsed the far-right Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) in next month’s federal elections and will host a live discussion on his social media platform X with its candidate for chancellor, Alice Weidel. “I don’t believe in courting Mr Musk’s favour. I’m happy to leave that to others,” he said. “The rule is: don’t feed the troll.”

 You knwo wh at doos   Scholtz fucked u so badly in  Germany that si coaition frayed and he wa froced to resign as Chancelor by a vote of no confdence in the German Reichstag and a new election in February this year,    His Party that in 2021 was the biggest party in Germany and able t cobble together a coalitoon Government in Germany - is now accordig to opinion pols the fourth  biggst Party  in Germany.

It was not Musk who said he was shit - it is the Geman voters that live in dire circumstances  with the German econmy in recession  who said it and Musk was just repeating what the ignorant bastard did to Germany.    He is so bad that the premier of the German State Brandenburg would not allow  Scholtz to campaign for him in Brandenburg - which is Scholt's home state where ihis residence is - becsue he was poison in Brandenburg and th Premier would ahve lost the eelction.   The latter guy knew that the CSU wcould not win in Brandenburg S  ta te and moved to tehr ig ht within Schotz own Party by tuenin g agains t illegal migratin h imself and convinced the voters to vote for him to prevent an AfD victoy in Brandenburg,   In the other two States where Landstag elections were held cholt ;s Paarty got a total of 15 seats out of te total of 213 seats.    So  Scholt z is on his way out after his party split into the SJ wh had links to Russia amd what is elft in Germany is t he Greens who deteritrated into shit as well.

o what you write above cam from a ttall discredited BSter who is going to be jobless afte he upcoming Germn election.

Opnion pols indicated that the German Party sizes after the election would be the following in Germany:-

1    CDU/CSU alliance

2    AfD

3   WSJ

4    Scholtz   SDU       *

5    The Greens            *

6    The Federal Party   *

    *    The Parties forming part of the German Coalition Government - the Federal support dropped from 12% of the voters to 4,5% of the voters meaning tha the Federal Party will have nn  seats in the Reichstag,            

That is going to be a farce and Scholtz will be kicked out as Party leader of the  SDU sfter  he fucked up royally - the rypical example of the Biden in Germn politics - withut any proof of perssonal corruption associated with Biden.

So whateve Musk said about him is mild as to twhat the voters in Germany said of him.     The Party with the biggest drop in support will be the Greens  after their crazy policies caused majot inflation in Germany since their policies forced milions in Germany to turn to food banks to  prevent starvation in Germany.    So enjoy - the chief warmongers in respect of the Ukraine War and in fact WW3 is the Greens in Germany.    You shoud go into mourning because your support of Scholtz is  finished in Germany and Musk caused no problem by stating the obvious in what the Germn voters think of the shit that Governed te contry since 2021 and cused its economic destruction.    He is the Biden of Germany without being pesoall corrupt like Biden is.

              .

Well its obvious that you get orgasmic over the rise of another far-right Party .

Sies.