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Nov 15, 2022, 23:55

Now, this imbecile Putin has killed two people on NATO soil, is he trying to start World War 3?
He will not stop his war in Ukraine and will continue to damage the world economy and political stability. 

Probably an accident, but after such a long war it would happen at some point in time

Nov 16, 2022, 08:48

Hey troll, why don't you consult your leader Biden. He was mumbling that the missile trajectory didn't originate from Russia. 

Nov 16, 2022, 10:21

The suggestions are now that it a Ukrainian air defense missile that missed what it was shooting at or went off course.

Nov 16, 2022, 11:58

Putin is bombing hospitals, schools and now all the electricity hubs to make Ukraine's lives a nightmare. Basically, he is a bastard, so if anything bad happens in this war, it is easy to think Putin is somehow involved.

However, America's intel appears to be sound, that it was caused by Ukrainians trying to defend themselves. 

Anyone who supports Putin is a degenerate of mankind. His allies are Iran and North Korea, and some of the backward Westerners - typically religious people. 

Nov 16, 2022, 12:00

You just a troll talking shite on here everyday anyway. 

Nov 16, 2022, 12:11

Trolling by highlighting Putin's atrocities?  While I deplore them, you cheer them on.

Somehow you claim the West is responsible for Putin trying to conquer a smaller country and committing international war crimes.  

Nov 16, 2022, 18:19

Haha.....lets start on the atrocities committed by Nato

The Bombing of Albanian refugees near Gjakova occurred on 14 April 1999 during the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, when NATO planes responding to Serb attacks on ethnic Albanians[1] accidentally bombed refugees on a twelve-mile stretch of road between the towns of Gjakova and Deçan in western Kosovo. 73 Kosovo Albanian civilians were killed.

Maybe you think Nato is exempt from committing  atrocities?


Nov 16, 2022, 18:35

Funny how people want to belive some reports but not others as long as it goes along with hat they want to be true.

At least NATO had the balls to look at the facts and manned up when it appeared to a Ukranian missile not Russian

Bet you a dollar to a pinch of goat shit putin would never have the balls to man up.

Glad it wasn't  russian last thing I want is a full blown war with Russia even if he is a murderous prick.

Still hoping that the Russian people will wake up and depose the prick. Be the best solution for everyone

Nov 16, 2022, 18:45

So you're trying to say Nato hasn't been murderous in the past.You single out Putin but brush aside the last 30 years of Nato Crusades.What a biased idiot you are.

Nov 16, 2022, 18:48

The Bombing of Albanian refugees near Gjakova occurred on 14 April 1999 during the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, when NATO planes responding to Serb attacks on ethnic Albanians[1] accidentally bombed refugees on a twelve-mile stretch of road between the towns of Gjakova and Deçan in western Kosovo. 73 Kosovo Albanian civilians were killed.

Do you notice in your quote it said accidentally bombed refugees?

That's a key difference between NATO and Russia. NATO has in the past unintentionally killed innocent people. Russia is deliberately killing innocent people on a far larger scale.

But even if NATO did commit atrocities in the past and lets say even if they did intentionally, that in no way makes it okay for Russia to do what its currently doing.

For a purpose who likes talking about how atheists have no morals I strongly suspect the average atheist has far more morals than you do.


Nov 16, 2022, 18:55

Never said Nato and especially America has clean hands. Care to point out where I stated this.

I am commenting on the Russian invasion of another country, that's what this thread is about.

Never supported America's invasion of Iraq or any of their other numerous wars.


Nov 16, 2022, 18:58

Since your a commie supporter I have to presume you supported the Russian invasion of Afghanistan as well?

Nov 16, 2022, 19:02

Amazing how many people support a totalitarian state as long it suits their beliefs.

I will be laughing my arse off if you lot ever find yourself in a state where you are on the otherside of those in power. Then you won't be so keen to see such a state.

Only thing is if that happens the innocent will have to suffer along with you pricks

Nov 16, 2022, 19:26

Stav you mentioned Russians torturing prisoners, a UN official stated both sides are doing suchboth sides are torturing prisoners.I don't doubt that with Putin being ex KGB that they're torturing prisoners,but you need to man up and understand what happens in war happens on both sides.

Now Nato Crusader mentions Afganistan and forgets the USA invasion there,conveniently.

Nov 16, 2022, 19:33

Are you a complete moron, did I not state I did not support their other wars which anyone with half a brain would presume that cover Afghanistan  as well.

Last war America I supported in full was WW11.

America is responsible for half the troubles in the world since then but that does not excuse putin from his current mass murder simply because other states have done wrong.

Bloody keyboard warriors like you are half the reason the world continues to have issues.

The day cunts like you let go of your hate the world will be a vastly better place

Nov 16, 2022, 19:40

Funny how all the Christians on here are all so full of hate of others which is supposidly the complete opposite of the supposid teachings of the imaginery god they follow.

The hypocrisy astounds me. 

Nov 16, 2022, 20:58

Wow! Nato Crusader must be in his nineties if he supported the 2nd World War in full,incredible.
Him and Biden have much in common.Now he's a Nato Crusader,fighting for the right cause ,fighting for Zelensky.

Nov 16, 2022, 21:11

"Funny how all the Christians on here are all so full of hate of others which is supposidly the complete opposite of the supposid teachings of the imaginery god they follow.

The hypocrisy astounds me. "

Really?  I come across as hateful?...sorry you perceive it like that...I'm a pacifist and an advocate for personal freedoms...I'm against Putin's war, but I believe Nato's meddling played a huge part in his decision to invade...not enough to excuse him for it, that's all on him, but there's more to this than what's being reported.

AND, my biggest gripe, NATO is more than happy to let this proxy war continue...I see no effort to end this...it's like they want the war...

Nov 16, 2022, 21:16

Stav you mentioned Russians torturing prisoners, a UN official stated both sides are doing suchboth sides are torturing prisoners.

I wasn't aware of that, but having checked this you are right the UN have stated that.

Firstly I condemn any form of torture regardless of who the perpetrator is, Ukrainian or Russia or any foreign fighters partaking in the conflict.

Having said that, the UN does draw a distinction between the two sides in that they described torture of Ukrainian prisoners by Russian forces as "fairly systematic" while Ukrainian torture of Russian prisoners was described as "not systematic"

Now I can understand in combat one side or both might want to take revenge on the enemy and that individuals or individual units can take it upon themselves to commit war crimes, that doesn't make it okay but there is a major difference between individual/individual units committing war crimes compared to when a conscious decision by military and political leaders to order the forces under their command to commit war crimes on a large scale in order to achieve their military goals.

.I don't doubt that with Putin being ex KGB that they're torturing prisoners,but you need to man up and understand what happens in war happens on both sides.

With that viewpoint you could just as easily I just need to man up to what the Nazi's did during WWII. It happens on both sides.


Nov 16, 2022, 21:17

Sorry dradd didn't mean to include you amongst the rest, of all posters on this site I think we have the most in common. It seems there are very few that holds a middle ground.

Nov 16, 2022, 21:46

but there's more to this than what's being reported.

Such as?

AND, my biggest gripe, NATO is more than happy to let this proxy war continue...I see no effort to end this...it's like they want the war...

If you're going to criticize NATO, then tell me how should they end the war. Whats your proposal?

Nov 16, 2022, 21:51

So NATO must get end support to Ukraine so it can get crushed in order to end the war.
Why didn't we think of that before?
I will phone NATO tomorrow and suggest the idea to them... 

So Draad, not much hate, but you have no empathy to see it from the perspective of the opposite side. How dare Ukraine try to defend itself, and cause a global inflation crisis? 
And how dare NATO offer them weapons to defend their nation's independence?

You do have an underlying hate for the West that determines how you perceive the politics.


Nov 16, 2022, 22:11

"You do have an underlying hate for the West that determines how you perceive the politics." 

Sharkblik  has underlying hatred for God that poisons his entire mindset. He compensates by joining the Nato Crusaders war against Russia. Then when he's on another forum he argues against the Crusades. 

Nov 16, 2022, 23:55

I don't hate God, what I don't like is people thinking they are God's master race. 
I certainly don't believe in your God. You are confused to think that if a heaven existed, only people from one religion would go to heaven.

Everyone else including animals species would have no afterlife, what a joke. A dolphin or a chimpanzee would have more chance of an afterlife than you. ;)

Nov 17, 2022, 04:39

God is in heaven... Psalm11v4

The God you serve in your earthly self God...call it what you want. Putin, Zelensky, Sharkblik are all sinners, no linguistics is gonna change that fact. 


Nov 17, 2022, 07:02

"So NATO must get end support to Ukraine so it can get crushed in order to end the war."  Never said that.

Why didn't we think of that before?
I will phone NATO tomorrow and suggest the idea to them... 

So Draad, not much hate, but you have no empathy to see it from the perspective of the opposite side. ( BS...I know how horrible war is, that's why I want more done to end it 
How dare Ukraine try to defend itself, and cause a global inflation crisis? 
And how dare NATO offer them weapons to defend their nation's independence?

Im glad they stood up to the bully and I'm glad NATO is supporting them, but I'm questioning the motives of some leaders.
You do have an underlying hate for the West that determines how you perceive the politics. BS I am a Westerner...I want more calls for peace. I want preasure on both sides to come to the table...Where are the diplomats? I want someone to stand up and do something...If Putin is allowed to continue this without bigger consequences,  China will get bolder too. This is much more sinister than you think.

Nov 17, 2022, 07:13

SB

You are the chief supporter of people who think themselves as the Master Race.   An easy example is to call everyone not supporting your crazy ideas "Rednecks" - ie according to you uneducated working people.    Nobody else refer to opponents of your favorite regime to anything - you do the opposite.  

On the whole you started off with a lie on this topic.   I can tell you what really happened.   The US provided second-hand equipment to the Ukrainians - who are not properly trained and experienced to use the weaponry.     They obviously had a mishap in this case or the aged rocket itself went awry and hit Poland.                          

Nov 18, 2022, 05:57

One major sinister angle are the arms manufacturers and they've found their sacrificial lamb in the Ukrainian soldiers.Who wants war more than them? 

 If Nato allowed Ukraine to join fully now then they would have to send their own Nato men to the frontline, so Nato is the coward.

Let the slavs donder each other up while we fill our pockets, that's why the gas pipelines were blown the day after protests in Germany. 

Nov 18, 2022, 09:29

I am like Draad for peace all over the world and stability through reaching through a peace agreement in Ukraine.

However, the problem is not really NATO - it really relates to kickbacks and corruption amongst US Politicians and that include both Democrats and Republicans.    The more they promote the war the more you can be 100% sure they are getting funds through corruption and bribery.  

One of the consequences in the election is that the Democrats lost their majority in the House.   Even a number of Democrats got re-elected after promising the voters that they would not support the Biden crazy policies and one of those will be the encouragement of the war in Ukraine.   Biden and his advisors are now making sounds as if they will start endorsing the implementation of the Minsk agreement that the Democrats in the past sabotaged.  That will end the war and warmongering.   

Unfortunately the corrupt members of the House and Senate like Pelosi, Schiff, Schumer and Menendez are still in the two institutions and if they can help it the pestilence of corruption will continue.

I suspect a cease fire will be reached soon and thereafter peace negotiations will commence.        

Nov 18, 2022, 10:40

One major sinister angle are the arms manufacturers and they've found their sacrificial lamb in the Ukrainian soldiers.Who wants war more than them?

Valdimir Putin.

If Nato allowed Ukraine to join fully now then they would have to send their own Nato men to the frontline, so Nato is the coward.

Russia attacked Ukraine, the smaller and militarily weaker country, it did not dare not attack a Nato country, therefore Russia is both a bully and a coward.

Let the slavs donder each other up while we fill our pockets, that's why the gas pipelines were blown the day after protests in Germany.

And you non atheists are supposed to the be the moral ones?

Nov 18, 2022, 12:24

So we scroll back 60 years to the Cuban missile crisis. The yanks said they would bomb the island if Russia installed their missiles their.

Now the Russians are the bad boys because they don't want USA on their doorstep. You ignorant wankers much catch a wake-up. 

Nov 18, 2022, 12:24

So we scroll back 60 years to the Cuban missile crisis. The yanks said they would bomb the island if Russia installed their missiles their.

Now the Russians are the bad boys because they don't want USA on their doorstep. You ignorant wankers much catch a wake-up. 

Nov 18, 2022, 12:40

So we scroll back 60 years to the Cuban missile crisis. The yanks said they would bomb the island if Russia installed their missiles their.

But the difference is that there was actually nuclear weapons being to deployed to Cuba by the Soviet Union and it would later turn out that nuclear warheads where already on Cuba by the time the Cuban missile crisis started.

Ukraine on the other hand is the only country in history to have given up its nuclear weapons.

Now the Russians are the bad boys because they don't want USA on their doorstep. You ignorant wankers much catch a wake-up.

The US had no military presence in Ukraine, when Russia invaded. It is you that is ignorant.

Nov 18, 2022, 13:31

Meanwhile, the US is now building more nuclear bombs in the EU at the request of countries like Poland - and perhaps new NATO members like Sweden. 

This is Putin causing this with his nuclear threats... He has spooked his neighbours who never had an interest in nuclear weapons. 

Given Russia has a small economy, but the most nuclear bombs, which shows they are the aggressor. 

Nov 18, 2022, 17:41

This war should never have happened and will end with all players at a table meeting face to face and all sides having to give ground.

With all this money being made available to Ukraine as aid etc what again was the reason for this war?





Nov 18, 2022, 18:28

What ground in your view should both sides be willing to give?


Nov 18, 2022, 20:56

"Ukraine on the other hand is the only country in history to have given up its nuclear weapons." 

Wrong again, South Africa in fact was the first country to give up its nuclear arsenal.


Nov 18, 2022, 20:59

Remember Ukraine inherited their nukes, never built them

Nov 19, 2022, 00:00

Wrong again, South Africa in fact was the first country to give up its nuclear arsenal.

I wasn't ware of this. I stand corrected.

My point still stands though, Ukraine gave up their nukes and have made no attempt to require them since doing so, as opposed to Cuba which was actively being supplied with nukes at the time of the Cuban missile crisis. So the Ukraine war and the Cuban missile crisis are not apt comparison.

Remember Ukraine inherited their nukes, never built them

And? What difference does it make if they inherited their nukes or built them?
Also South Africa assembled and disassembled 6 nuclear weapons. Ukraine gave up an arsenal of 1,800 nuclear warheads. Ukraine also fully functioning missiles to deliver their nukes while South Africa was only just testing a missile delivery system when it ended its nuclear program.

Nov 19, 2022, 00:06

 I do not had the answers to that Stav.

But the only way to settle this argument is for the two leaders to meet and sort out the issues.

This is not a quick fix as the two countries have been at loggerheads since the breakup of Russian and some areas under Ukraine rule are Russian folk to the core.

Not an easy situation to resolve.

Plus the encroaching Nato issue is yet another problem.





Nov 19, 2022, 06:14

The nukes Ukraine had were built by Russia in the first place, secondly they weren't a nuclear nation under international law.

Which of these countries has Russia threatened to bomb as the USA threatened Cuba in 1962.

Hungary,Slovenia,Czeck Rep, Poland, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Latvia, Lithuania. The original idea is Nato was to promote dialogue for peace in eastern Europe. Fat lot of peace they've brought about. 

Nov 19, 2022, 06:51

Morally speaking the USA army has a long history of targeting civilians for instance in Korea and Vietnam. They have no leg to stand on in condemning Putin and his army. The have been and are a law unto themselves. 

Nov 19, 2022, 07:56

Can anyone remember  Operation Ranch Hand in the Vietnam war.    The USA used a chemical  substance  called  Agent Orange to remove plant cover and agricultural produce.    Agent Orange was a powerful herbicide used by U.S. military forces during the Vietnam War to eliminate forest cover and crops for North Vietnamese and Viet Cong troops. The U.S. program, codenamed Operation Ranch Hand, sprayed more than 20 million gallons of various herbicides over Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos from 1961 to 1971.

Agent Orange, which contained the deadly chemical dioxin, was the most commonly used herbicide. It was later proven to cause serious health issues—including cancer, birth defects, rashes and severe psychological and neurological problems—among the Vietnamese people as well as among returning U.S. servicemen and their families.

That to my mind was a war crime - but since the USA do not recognize the authority of the International Criminal Court in Den Haag they were not charged with war crimes.   There is no real evidence how many people died directly from the more than 20 million gallons of it used between 1961 and 1971 in Vietnam and Laos - it is more likely more than what is happening in Ukraine during the present war?   .

     

  

Nov 19, 2022, 11:15

The USA never recognizes any war crimes court. 

200000 civilian philipinos died in American concentration camps at the turn of the 20th C. They, ve been a bloodthirsty country throughout their history. 

Nov 19, 2022, 11:31

I do not had the answers to that Stav.

I don't think anyone does.

I don't blame anyone for not having the answers, I just find it odd that they can criticize other countries for allowing or not ending the war when they don't have solution themselves.

The nukes Ukraine had were built by Russia in the first place, secondly they weren't a nuclear nation under international law.

Irrelevant, they still had in their possession 1,800 nuclear warheads.

Which of these countries has Russia threatened to bomb as the USA threatened Cuba in 1962.

Hungary,Slovenia,Czeck Rep, Poland, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Latvia, Lithuania. The original idea is Nato was to promote dialogue for peace in eastern Europe. Fat lot of peace they've brought about.

Of these countries listed, which countries had Russia previously invaded or occupied and suppressed for decades?


Nov 19, 2022, 11:37

You non-reply to American bloodthirstyness proves any accusation levelled against Russia is irrelevant. 

Nov 19, 2022, 12:53

You non-reply to American bloodthirstyness proves any accusation levelled against Russia is irrelevant.

So your argument is that anything Russia does is okay because America has been bloodthirsty in the past? How very moral of you.

In previous posts on this forum I've already said the west including America is guilty of hypocrisy when it comes to criticizing Russia, but that doesn't mean their criticism is wrong or that it justifies Russia's actions.




Nov 19, 2022, 13:15

So you agree that USA and therefore Nato are immoral. They are also immoral in their establishment of  Nato countries alongside Russia,without Russia's permission.

 Nato is not a council for dialogue as it should be but a warmongering agent. Your basis of supporting Ukraine is therefore irrevalent. 


Nov 19, 2022, 14:31

What's has the US or NATO's morality got to do with Russia invading Ukraine. Ukraine is not controlled by the US or is it a member of NATO.

They are also immoral in their establishment of  Nato countries alongside Russia,without Russia's permission.

Neighboring states need Russia's permission?

 Nato is not a council for dialogue as it should be but a warmongering agent. Your basis of supporting Ukraine is therefore irrevalent.

NATO is primarily a defensive alliance designed to deter aggression against member states. Have you ever once heard NATO or any member state suggesting in anyway that it would or that there was cause for it to attack Russia. America was reducing its military presence in Europe before Russia invaded in the process of pivoting to Asia to counter China which is sees as the bigger threat than Russia. In the Baltic states the only NATO countries that bordered Russia, there was just 1,000 NATO troops split across the 3 countries. Many European NATO states where happy to buy large quantities of Russian energy. Germany the biggest European NATO member has something of a joke reputation when it comes to its military and had a habit of bending over backwards to extend the olive branch of friendship to Russia. It along with France blocked Ukraine membership to NATO and there was nothing in the short to medium term to suggest that stance was going to change.

So I ask you where was this warmongering from NATO. Where was this existential threat to Russia coming from that they felt compelled to act?





Nov 19, 2022, 15:48

Yes, we revert back to the 1962 Cuban Missile crisis where your immoral USA threatened to bomb Cuba.

Nato needs permission from Russia in order to establish bases nearer than what was agreed previously. Your objections are null and void. Stick with the agreements and avoid being bombed.

Nov 19, 2022, 16:17

Mooobeam, why are so many fundamentalist evangelistic Christians, fanboys of the psychotic evil war criminal puking Putin ?

Nov 19, 2022, 16:45

Are you a pacifist you evil atheist? 

Nov 19, 2022, 17:36

Maybe ouBeano or ouMaaik will front    you're too chickensht. Amen.

Nov 19, 2022, 17:40

Yes, we revert back to the 1962 Cuban Missile crisis where your immoral USA threatened to bomb Cuba.

After Russia had put nuclear weapons into Cuba and was in the process of placing more nuclear weapons there.

Neither the US or NATO supplied or had any intentions of placing nuclear weapons in Ukraine.

Nato needs permission from Russia in order to establish bases nearer than what was agreed previously. Your objections are null and void. Stick with the agreements and avoid being bombed.

What agreement? Any such agreement is highly debated by scholars and even Gorbachev said in an interview no such agreement was ever given.

Even if that agreement was made and NATO had broken the agreement. Ukraine is not a NATO member so why on earth are they being bombed?

Are you a pacifist you evil atheist?

LOL, you sir are a morally bankrupt individual who's only remit it to engage in an endless circle of whataboutery. You're in no position to call anyone else evil.


Nov 19, 2022, 18:21

 It’s not the Cuban missile crisis….it’s the Jameson raid. 

Nov 19, 2022, 19:57

Here are some of the countries bombed by your mighty USA.     Afghanistan 1998, 2001-
Bosnia 1994, 1995
Cambodia 1969-70
China 1945-46
Congo 1964
Cuba 1959-1961
El Salvador 1980s
Korea 1950-53
Guatemala 1954, 1960, 1967-69
Indonesia 1958
Laos 1964-73
Grenada 1983
Iraq 1991-2000s, 2015-
Iran 1987
Korea 1950-53
Kuwait 1991
Lebanon 1983, 1984
Libya 1986, 2011-
Nicaragua 1980s
Pakistan

Nov 19, 2022, 20:00

Please explain each campaign and why you think the reason for bombing said country was valid. 

Nov 19, 2022, 20:37

All after WW11, so you know where I stand. Maybe the Korean War but even then not totally but I bet your arse 99% of the south Koreans thank the US for that one.

Why do you presume just because we support I conflict (aid only not ground troops) that we support every war.

It's like you far right fuckwits that's think if you oppose one thing from the looney right then you are a looney left supporter.

the worlds not black and white you know, most people are centre in my opinion but you fuckwits only believe you have to hold far right or far left ideals.

Well fuck off is all I can say to cunts like you

Nov 19, 2022, 20:46

Here are some of the countries bombed by your mighty USA...

That's some next level whataboutery.

Nov 19, 2022, 20:52

If you cannot supply valid reasons for your mighty righteous country that you support then don't ask me to supply reasons for a country you oppose. 

Nov 19, 2022, 22:11

I support Ukraine's right to defend itself from invasion by an violently aggressive foreign power. Whether or not I've supported US military actions in the past (and I frequently did not) is irrelevant and you know it.



Nov 19, 2022, 23:10

Your answer is not entirely correct and you know it.You are dismissed. 

Nov 19, 2022, 23:19

ZZZzzzZZZzzzZZZzzz.

Nov 20, 2022, 02:43


When you argue with a fool, two fools are arguing

Nov 20, 2022, 09:45

BB

Fools are those who ignore real facts and live by one-sided propaganda.- which undermined real progress in potential peace negotiations.       

Nov 20, 2022, 11:05

Damn you people are so primed for a false flag attack.

Let’s assume that the Yanks didn’t realise the intel linking the missiles to Ukrainian air defences.

In that alternate reality, imagine i’d have asked you these questions;

How confident are we that it was Russia?

What motivation does Russia have to attack Poland?

What should the consequences be for Russia considering that you now believe they’ve attacked an EU member?

Be honest with yourself and answer those questions exactly as you would have had you not been told they were Ukrainian nukes.

It’s too easy to move from…”they were Russian missiles” to “it’s Russia’s fault anyway”.

Be a coward and make that transition without looking back if you like…but know that doing so is a glaring indictment of your critical thinking.

Are you not able to see how vulnerable you are you a false flag attack? How easily you could be duped into supporting an escalation that could be catastrophic for the entire planet?

I’d you’re taking information at face value in this day and age then there is no chance in hell that you’re helping anybody’s cause.

Use some damn common sense.

Nov 20, 2022, 11:18

Buttplug, Buttplug...

Of course, everyone has at least considered the possibility that Ukraine bombed Poland to bring NATO into the war against Russia.
However, just because there is a motive, it does not make it true.

US, EU and NATO intel would have explored that option. Just like Ukraine "could" have bombed the EU gas pipeline, investigations would surely consider all possibilities.

It is not as if governments are going to say this in the media though. 

Nov 20, 2022, 16:13

The above answers are mostly totally out of context.   The USA, UK and Communist Russia leaders decided to let Russia occupy what then was Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Romania, Bulgaria and Yugoslavia.   However Tito refused to allow Russian troops to enter Yugoslavia and remain there as an occupying force.   Stalin played ping-pong with the Western so-called leaders and the whole Yalta Treaty was an abortion.   Russia was also allowed to occupy the previously independent Lithuaania, Estonia and Latvia - which became slave states under Stalin as part of the Soviet Union.   

The Communist regime departed from Russia in 1991 and never returned.    The idea that Russia is still under Communist control with an imperial policy as to expansion is propaganda  BS.   Russia never since 1991 invaded any independent country - there were minor problems with the new borders of countries - but that over time was settled.   The new free countries like Georgia and Armenia are factual examples.

So why is Ukraine different from the rest?    The Ukraine did not give up nuclear bombs as suggested,    In the Ukraine Independence negotiations and in the Ukraine Constitution it as agreed that the independent Ukraine would be nuclear free and by 2003 the nuclear bombs were all transferred back to Russia.    So how could  the present nuclear issue become an issue in Ukraine.

What became an issue under Obama was corrupt activities of the US leadership of the Democratic Party with some allies from the Republican Party in both Russia and especially in the totally corrupt Ukraine Government.    Since independence in 1991  the Ukraine Government was the most corrupt in Europe and a long list of   especially Democrat leaders were involved in Ukraine and Russian corruption.    That ranged from Obama himself and included Clinton, Biden, Pelosi Schumer, Schiff, Podesta and virtually every Democrat leader in the USA.   Obama was directly involved in the Uranium 1`scandal for which Russia paid $142 million to the Clinton Foundation  from where the money was distributed to the various beneficiaries.    By the way Mueller was appointed as Special Council in that case and found nothing untoward about the issue and his report was a white-wash to protect the Obama regime.   Since 2014 the USA  provided  billions in aid to Ukraine - and the famous  10% kick back scenario became in full force with Clinton on her own getting  $38 million assistance through the corruption vehicle - the Clinton Foundation.   Hunter Biden  was his father's agent in Ukraine corruption -  the Biden's have a joint bank account through which the corrupt money flows.   

By 2019 Trump found out about the 10% kickback issue and instructed that all foreign aid assistance should be suspended  until clarification could be attained about processes followed  and the 10% kickback system be stopped.   For instance the corrupt activities in Ukraine of Pelosi and Schiff  were stopped in its tracks and that led to the Impeachment Joke in 2019.

The  fact is that Trump was an impediment to continuation of US politician corruption in Ukraine.    The FBI knew about everything going on in corruption in the USA by especially Democrat Politicians in Ukraine - but refuse to act on it in an effort to prevent any scandal involving the Democrats becoming public knowledge. .   The election of the ultra-corrupt Biden as President opened the gate to ultra-corruption by the Democrats in Ukraine.   The famous  $40 billion aid package to Ukraine was a farce and a further $1 billion was voted by the House  in aid money in Ukraine.  Two days after that money was provided to Ukraine Pelosi and Schiff were in Kiev to deal with the usage of the money and the handling of the kick-back money - nothing else.   The 40 billion did not go to the Ukraine in cash - it was for replacement of  second-hand armaments collected from the US Army and the beneficiaries were the US Armaments industry,   The said Industry was known for decades as a kickback institution for US politicians.   It started in Vietnam and is continuing to this day.   Every defense force contract is inflated to cater for kick-backs and one of the kick-back vehicles has been Haliburton largely controlled by the Cheyne's.  

There is a massive amount of money benefitting USA politicians in the present Ukraine scenario.   Biden himself is involved and that account for the undermining of the Minsk agreement as to a ceasefire in Ukraine and the establishment of a proper Constitution for Ukraine.    Instead of abiding by the agreement the corrupt elements in the USA Government - supported by the media - undermined the agreement,   

Is Ukraine a democracy at present?    It was and is not one.   Since the 2014 coup the country has NO constitution  and the Minsk agreement that would have led to a proper constitution was aborted.    After the2019 election Ukraine gradually deteriorated into a one party dictatorship - at present the ruling party is the only one allowed to operate politically - all opposition parties are banned and all Russian speaking members of the Ukraine Parliament have been arrested.

In the meantime Russia is NOT a one-party state like the media and especially the USA want everybody to believe.    In the end if the media are fed with enough lies they use the Goebbels method - if lies are repeated enough times people may start to believe they are the truth.   That is why the conduct of some of our members are so ridiculous.   They constantly believe every lie concocted by the media and this is just one of many such lies.                

      

                                                    

                 

Nov 20, 2022, 16:31

Dumb Mike, you need to understand that authoritarianism can take many guises. 
Just because a country does not have a communist economy- and has capitalism instead - that does not mean it is not authoritarian.

Communism in practice is just a form of authoritarianism. 
Capitalism left unchecked can become authoritarianism. (e.g. global monopolies).
If the wealth is becoming more centralised in fewer people, they have all the money and power to appoint politicians that will do their bidding. Promote their agenda like no tax for the rich. 

The characteristics of an authoritarian country are:

1. One Party State. (Opposition are jailed frequently or have to leave the country)
2. No Freedom of Media-  State owned. (Opposition are jailed frequently or have to leave the country)
3. A leader that has appointed himself for life or/and rigged elections. Rigged elections are basically a one-party state. 

China is an example where they were semi-authoritarian but became more Democratic because they had a limited term on their leader. Now XiPing has appointed himself for life, and closed down freedom of the media so China is going back to being authoritarian. They do use capitalism...

Does Communism actually exist in the 21st century?




Nov 20, 2022, 19:02

SB

Now let react on the issue of Russia.    The Russian Constitution allows for freedom of speech and for a multi-party state.   In the last  Russian Parliamentary election Putin's Party only got 48,2% of the vote -  the other 9 participating parties got 51,8% of the vote.   However, Russia is a massively large country and some of the opposition parties have local but not  national organization.   Because of the above split in voting Putin's Party won 65% of the Duma seats.   In the Russian Presidential election Putin got  60% of the vote,   The Russian Constitution only allows for two term presidency,   The fact is that the Duma approved that an exception be made for Putin to serve a third term candidate.

Russia has as free a press as for instance the Western media owners allows freedom of speech.

Russia meets none of the criteria you listed as being proof of a dictatorship.    Ukraine at present meets all the requirements of being a dictatorship.   It is a one-party state not allowing any opposition parties to function.    All Russian-speaking members of the Ukraine Parliament are in jail.   The media is under total state control - there is no freedom of speech allowed - people speaking Russian are fined if they dare speak Russian in public.

So if you expect anything to change Ukraine back to become a democracy - you are believing in cloud 9 stories.   I would like to remind you of the rise to power of  Hussein in Iraq in the late 1970's and the whole of the 1980-88.    The USA did exactly the same as they are doing in Ukraine - Hussein became their great ally in the Mid-East and received massive  aid from the USA.     Now watch out - with a Nazi-element in the Ukraine Government and in the Ukraine Army the chances of returning of Democracy in Ukraine would be zero.

Now about China - when were they ever non-authoritarian since 1949 when the Communist Party took over.   They always were an outright dictatorship.   Mao was a mass-murdering dictator - and his successors  were slightly less bloodthirsty - but no element of freedom of speech was ever allowed and there were no members of the Chinese Parliament who are opposition party members.   

As to Communism being existing - no real Communism ever existed other than in the Kibbutz in Israel.   It always was a cover for operation of a dictatorship in countries.     In the late 1980's I met Roly Arenstein a grandnephew of Karl Marx after he was banned for 52 years for being a Communist.    I one day had a long discussion with him about Communism and when I asked him about the oppression of people in Communist countries he told me that the USSR was NOT a Communist Country - it was a dictatorship.   Whether it is a Communist dictatorship is another question - it has all the trappings of Fascism.               

 The real situation is now Fascism -  in other words a coalition of the ultra-rich and  especially so-called liberal  socialist parties.   That was the case in both Italy and Germany  - when they had Fascist Governments.  It is a particularly serious problem in the USA at present and probably the greatest threat to democracy over the last 200 years in the world - if the USA become Fascist the rest of thew world would follow it  .                                              

          

Nov 20, 2022, 19:47

Nov 20, 2022, 19:02

SB

  The Russian Constitution only allows for two-term presidency,   The fact is that the Duma approved that an exception be made for Putin to serve a third term candidate.

---------
You mean Putin made an exception, by removing anyone who opposed him from the Duma.

---


Nov 20, 2022, 22:58

This Kholomoisky, Zelensky's backer in his rise to power makes the Guptas look like amateurs. 

Nov 21, 2022, 00:38

No - SB - Putin removed nobody from membership of the Duma.    However, during the issue of discussion on the third term of Putin - it was decided not to change the Constitution - which would have to be confirmed by a referendum - but by the Duma approval of a special case allowing him  stand as a candidate for election     Whether he would win an election in that case depends onm the electorate.   It was obvious that Putin influenced the decision of the Duma in that regard and I have reservations about the whole issue myself - but that on its own does not negate the fact that Russia is constitutionally a democratic country and election results confirm that is a multi-party country. 

There is one problem in Russia which is similar to the USA - namely the existence of the Mafia in both countries.   Since the 1930's the Democratic Party has had a close association with the US Mafia - so close that Kennedy was able to win in Illinois by a very small percentage in the 1960 Presidential election and the Mafia claimed they made him the USA President by lection fraud in  Chicago,    Clinton's link to the Mafia and  drug smuggling while he was governor was so close that Hilary in a  recent statement said that if Fox News was in exostence in 1992 Bill would not have been the President of the USA.   The Clintons came to Washington pennyless but after 8 years as President the Clinton cabal was worth $200 million.   So what about Obama?    He declared in a statement of assets when he became Senator that he was worth $100 000 - 4 years later when he became President  he declared that he had $3,5 million in assets.   When he left the Presidency he went on a buying spree in buying luxury homes in Hawai, California, Washington and Martha's Vineyard to the tune of an estimated $32 million.  That was before he got the $61 million dollars he was paid by Netfix.    He was a master in insder trading as well.   Coming from Chicago - still a Mafia playground - he may have links to the Mafia.   

So are there links between the Russian Mafia and the Putin Presidency.   Some suggested in the past that there may be links - but am not sure of that one at all.   Some of the Russian billionaires definitely had links to the bloodthirsty Russian Mafia - but whether that means Putin has similar links is not clear.    Some of the murders in Russia Putin is blamed for may well be by Russian Mafia acting in their own interests.

    


                 

    

 
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