Bozo fires John Bolton . . .

Forum » Beenos Trumpet » Bozo fires John Bolton . . .

Sep 10, 2019, 21:52

Bozo "I always hire the best people" has just fired John Bolton, his 3rd National Security Advisor.


Can any of the Trumpanzees please explain why someone who "always hires the best people" fires so many of them as well?


Something is not tallying up here. Either Bozo is as pathetically poor at recruiting as he is at geography, history, science, maths, biology, english, economics, diplomacy, military, politics and general knowledge or else all the "best" people that he hires go through some kind of metamorphosis after he appoints them and become incompetent idiots.


It's one of the two.

Sep 10, 2019, 22:43

People fail to meet Trump's high standards and get fired. It comes with a performance environment....foreign to you Peeper.

Sep 10, 2019, 22:44

One thing that set John Bolton apart in the White House was his unwillingness to meet with a compony pressing hard to export nuke tech to Saudi.... whereas the corrupt president sees dollar signs and kickbacks from the rich Saudis without any consideration to the consequences...

Thick as pigshit Trump wants to give the country that gave the US the 9/11 attack nuclear weapons...this is a country that finances radical islam and the construction of thousands of radical mosques and madrasas....dumb move handing the murderous Saudis US nuke technology ...can't trust the Saudis any further than you can throw them...



Sep 10, 2019, 22:56

“Posted by: Brycy (4364 posts) Sep 10, 2019, 22:44

One thing that set John Bolton apart in the White House was his unwillingness to meet with a compony pressing hard to export nuke tech to Saudi.... whereas the corrupt president sees dollar signs and kickbacks from the rich Saudis without any consideration to the consequences...”

Uhmm John Bolton is actually the warmonger. The left and the MSM were seriously pissed off when Trump appointed him because of his warmongering.

The irony though is that it is actually mostly the Dems who are in bed with the industrial military complex.

Sep 11, 2019, 01:55

...and on the anniversary of 9 / 11 Trump invites the Taleban to Camp David...what a numpty

Sep 11, 2019, 08:15

Brycy

Bolton is an extreme rightwing person  and the difference between Bolton and Trump in the end related to  how the USA  would get their troops out of  Afghanistan and reduce the USA troops in South Korea.

The so-called  "One thing that set John Bolton apart in the White House was his unwillingness to meet with a compony pressing hard to export nuke tech to Saudi.... whereas the corrupt president sees dollar signs and kickbacks from the rich Saudis without any consideration to the consequences...”     can be best described as fake news.  Trump does not need the money - like Obama and the Clintons did when they exported 20% of the uranium strategic reserve of the USA to Russia and got a $145 million kick back from the Russians paid to the Clinton Foundation.  That matter is still under review and all hell will likely break loose next year,   

Bolton wanted the Iranians bombed after the attacks on ships and Trump asked the experts what the effect would be on the civilian population.   When that was revealed - he stopped the planned attack with Bolton in total opposition to his decision.  That was one of the main reasons for the departure of  Bolton and the others relate to his opposition to attempted deals with the Taliban and North Korea in efforts to reduce or eventually totally remove USA troops from Afghanistan and South Korea,   .        

Sep 11, 2019, 09:17

Typical Trumpanzees . . . either too stupid to understand the point I'm making or else deliberatley being obtuse and avoiding it.

Let me try dumb it down a bit so even the Trumpanzees can grasp it.

Bozo boasted that he only hires the best people. He didn't boast that he only hires good or excellent people, he boasted that he only hires the BEST people.

Now if the BEST person fails to meet Bozo's "high standards" then I think it's safe to say that Bozo's standards are unrealistic and it also begs the question why Bozo demands such high standards from everyone else but not from himself . . . given that he's a bungling fool, a liar and an attention-seeking child.

Can you Trumpanzees at least admit that the fact that Bozo has just fired his third National Security Advisor contradicts his boast that he always hires the BEST people?

If you disagree, explain why he hired the BEST person Michael Flynn as his National Security Advisor and then fired him (after he lied to the FBI) and replaced him with HR McMaster who I assume was only the second-best person for the job . . . either that or as soon as Flynn took the post his performance suddenly dropped so that he was no longer the BEST . . . and then the same happened with HR McMaster and has happened again with John Bolton.

Think about it, Trumpanzees and let me know when you can explain how the BEST people suddenly become incompetent as soon as Bozo hires them or when you're prepared to admit that Bozo was lying when he boasted that he only hires the BEST people.

Note to ou Maaik . . . I don't require your ignorant and biased version of all the stupid things that Flynn, McMaster and Bolton did, my question relates to Bozo's claim that he only hires the BEST people.

Note to Ceradunce . . . I don't require long lists of all the people Barack Obama fired. I'm only talking about Bozo here and reciting all the naughty things Obama did would only be pertinent if you can quote something about him also boasting that he only hires the BEST people.

Sep 11, 2019, 09:22

Time will tell whether Donnie is playing the right game with North Korea and Iran. With a change of approach I suspect the Iranians might be forthcoming but I fear he's wasting his time with North Korea.....the little dictator is laughing at him. Trying to negotiate a peace settlement with the Taliban is another waste of effort, they would want a settlement on their terms or none at all.

Sep 11, 2019, 09:30

“Now if the BEST person fails to meet Bozo's "high standards" then I think it's safe to say that Bozo's standards are unrealistic.....”

Trump is trying to end the senseless wars. Mattis lost his job because Trump wants to end ISIS and get out of Syria will Mattis wanted to stay in Syria. Which option do you prefer?

Bolton is a warmongering idiot and he wants to keep the war machine rolling, and he wouldn’t budge, while Trump wants peace. Should he have keep him?

Trump wants to meet the Taliban and get a negotiated settlement rather than a settlement over the barrel of a gun, so to speak. The first option has been going on for years with no prospect of a solution in sight. Maybe, just maybe it is time to try something different? Of course the industrial military complex don’t like this shyte idea of ending another war. What would happen to their profits if Trump eventually manage to secure an advisor who is not a warmonger?

Sep 11, 2019, 09:42

"Bolton is a warmongering idiot . . ."


I see, so we can safely say that this is a case where Bozo did not in fact hire the BEST person?

Sep 11, 2019, 09:54

Probably but then we also don’t know whether he promised Trump that he agrees with his plan of action and then negated on it, do we?

Sep 11, 2019, 10:09

BTW, Rooinek, since you so always enjoy tapping your foot waiting for an answer to your interrogations, are you avoiding the two questions above or is the question about Trump hiring the best the only one that is relevant.

Sep 11, 2019, 10:24

Yes indeed Moz, if you don't perform and don't buy into the commander in Chiefs leadership you are out. One big reason for Trump's outstanding business success is his ability to take executive decisions and get things done. You cant build a business Empire without the ability to hire and fire people. A comparative failure like poor rooibozo will never be able to appreciate these matters

Bolton simply wanted to go in directions the president didn't like.

We should all be able to recall how Hillary and her MSM were all trying so hard to convince America that Trump would cause a war - meanwhile of course it was Hillary that was the hawk!! Green Party leader Jill Stein said during the 2016 election that Crooked Hillary would leas the USA into war. Look also at what happened in Libya and Iraq

Read this

Rand Paul: ‘Threat of War Around the World Is Greatly Diminished with Bolton Out

Tuesday on Fox News Channel’s “Your World,” Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) commented on the departure of National Security Adviser John Bolton from the Trump administration.

Paul said, “I think the threat of war around the world is greatly diminished with Bolton out of the White House. I think he had a naive point of view for the world that we should topple regimes everywhere and institute democratic governments and we would make the world perfect or remake the world in our image and frankly doesn’t work that way. There’s a lot of history of getting rid of strongmen in the Middle East and having them replaced by vacuums or chaos. Or actually making the place more hospitable for terrorist training.”

He added, “I think his idea that the way you deal with Iran is topple the government or the whale — the way you deal with North Korea is topple the government. The president is talking about not having regime change and finding a diplomatic solution of some of these conflicts around the world, and I think the president deserves to have somebody who’s his national security visor who actually will try to further his policy and not try to stymie it.”

As for Saudi Arabia, Trump has built a coalition against the mad militant Mullahs of Iran headed by the Saudis. The contaInment of Iran had been destroyed when Saddam Hussein had been taken out and Hussein Obummer and Hillary Clinton created a vacuum in the ME by withdrawing US troops - and of course when Hussein Obummer gifted 150 billion dollars to the mad mullahs who used to money to destabilise the ME and become the number 1 sponsor of state terrorism in the world. Worse still the Iranians were put on a path to nuclear weapons. The Obummer/Kerry deal said nothing about missile development and the inspection of military basis was NOT allowed!!.Now in a few years the treaty ends!

Seeing the disaster thew deal was Trump withdrew the USA from the treaty and has slapped severe sanctions on Iran as he has done on NK. You cant actually fault what he has been doIng.

When you joIn the WhIte House team you become a team member. You can't have a team member sayIng go to hell captain. Team members deciding ongoing off in their own directions spells disaster for the team. Many have noted how trump is very happy to listen to all sides before making a decision. Having made the decision he rightly expects his team to follow his lead.

To expect a very low pay grade like rooibozo to understand any of this is asking too much!



Sep 11, 2019, 10:29

"BTW, Rooinek, since you so always enjoy tapping your foot waiting for an answer to your interrogations, are you avoiding the two questions above or is the question about Trump hiring the best the only one that is relevant."


I started the thread so I guess I'm the best qualified to know what's relevant or not.

There are many questions above your statement, not just two. Please be a bit more specific about which ones you feel haven't been answered.

Sep 11, 2019, 10:52

1. Trump is trying to end the senseless wars. Mattis lost his job because Trump wants to end ISIS and get out of Syria will Mattis wanted to stay in Syria. Which option do you prefer?

2. Bolton is a warmongering idiot and he wants to keep the war machine rolling, and he wouldn’t budge, while Trump wants peace. Should he have kept him?

Sep 11, 2019, 11:07

When Trump appointed Bolton in 2016 the DP attacked him for appointing Bolton and that was exactly the reasons why Bolton should NOT be appointed as he is an extreme right-winger with really problematic approach to world affairs,  

Now suddenly he is the hero of the same news service always used by Rooinek- although he swears he does not use the extremist media when making postings on site.   Sorry - but I was always uncomfortable about Bolton in a senior position after his record of the past.  But then CNN is using the same stories Rooinek comes up every time when attacking Trump.          

Sep 11, 2019, 12:10

Listen carefully at Rand Paul on this issue, despite slimy undercover leftie Neil Cavuto constantly interrupting him and trying to rubbish what he is saying.

Bear in mind that Paul is not someone who shies away from fiercely criticising Trump when he doesn’t agree with him. 


Sep 11, 2019, 12:10

Well this is good news. Really disliked Bolton. Hopefully this is the end of his political career.

Sep 11, 2019, 12:15

Ceradunce, if you'd like to start a thread about Bozo trying to end wars or whether Bolton was a warmonger, go right ahead.


This particular thread is about Bozo's claim that he always hires the best people and why he fires so many of the "best" people.

Read the OP again if you're still confused and like I said, feel free to start your own thread if you prefer to talk about something else.

Sep 11, 2019, 12:17

...Possible John Bolton replacements.. what say you

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Sep 11, 2019, 12:21

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Sep 11, 2019, 13:09

Posted by: Rooinek (8993 posts)

Sep 11, 2019, 12:15

Ceradunce, if you'd like to start a thread about Bozo trying to end wars or whether Bolton was a warmonger, go right ahead.


This particular thread is about Bozo's claim that he always hires the best people and why he fires so many of the "best" people.

Read the OP again if you're still confused and like I said, feel free to start your own thread if you prefer to talk about something else.  "

Hahahaha. You asked me which questions I was referring to and I repeated them for you. Then you go: "Oh fcuk, how do I counter that? Oh wait, let's tell him to go start his own new thread on something vaguely similar so I can avoid the problem".

You did notice that I actually did address your OP, didn't you? You were pissing about (a) Trump firing Bolton [Not according to Bolton, though. He claims to have resigned, in which case you can hardly blame Trump.] and (b) Trump claiming to hire the best and then he fires the best. 

I addressed both these issues. But since you still seems to be struggling, I will try again but first we need to pay closer attention to the three people in question.

Mike Flynn was fired because "he lied to Trump and the FBI". He was found guilty in court after pleading guilty. Trump had no choice. He had to fire him because of the guilty verdict. But there is a massive kink in the cable and this saga is very far from over. due to the shenanigans of first Jim Comey and then Robert Mueller. The chances of Flynns guilty plea being rejected and the verdict overturned is becoming very likely. Remember that Flynn hasn't been sentenced yet after already being found guilty almost two years since being found guilty following his plea bargain with the Mueller team.

Gen Mattis. Discussed above.

Bolton discussed above.

The fact that he got rid of both Mattis and Bolton does not mean that they were not "the best", since they were not gotten rid of because they were crap but because they did not agree and follow through on Trump's vision as described so well by Rand Paul. 

Fact is that both Mattis and Bolton fundamentally disagreed with Trump. He wanted to avoid war and they wanted to keep the wars going, and even increase them in Bolton's case.

Whose side are you on? Trump who is against endless wars and regime changes or Mattis and Bolton who wants to keep on shooting and bombing.

I, being an ex-military guy myself, am very much in favour of a strong military force. Truth is though, that IMO the purpose of a strong military force is for it to be deployed if and when there is a threat to your country and not for political game playing in order to boost the arms industry or to boost the egos of political leaders and/or military generals. Do you agree?

Sep 11, 2019, 13:32

"Oh fcuk, how do I counter that?"


No, you obviously use profanity when you speak, when you type and internally when you think. I don't use it when I do any of those things.

So Flynn was fired because he lied to Bozo and the FBI? Sounds like you're confirming (again) my point that he doesn't in fact hire the best people . . . he just boasts that he does.

So were you in the SADF? I did my two years national service and two camps but I certainly don't consider myself a "military guy". I'm guessing you were PF which explains both your . . . ummm . . . let's just say somewhat limited intelligence as well as your extreme right wing views.

I'm not in favour of a strong military. I think it's a complete waste of money. Conventional war has become largely obsolete and modern warfare seems to have become more trade and economic wars rather than military. I'd much rather have a UN peacekeeping force as the world's strongest military presence rather than a bunch of psychopathic rednecks from the country with the most mass shooters in the world led by a vain, unstable and painfully stupid clown.


Sep 11, 2019, 14:26

Heavens alive - you want a  UN dictatorship to ensure world peace.   Most of the UN members are so far removed from democracy as the West is from the East.   I am sorry - but I disagree from you on that one.

It would be like the EU army the EU wants to use against whom?  The army is likely to be used only to oppress  political opposition to the EU in countries who refuse to bow down to German control of the EU.         

Sep 11, 2019, 14:33

Hahahahahahha always fun to see ou rooibzo go crashing yet again. The clown gets more and more desperate each day as Trump just keeps wining. :D



Sep 11, 2019, 14:43

"So Flynn was fired because he lied to Bozo and the FBI? Sounds like you're confirming (again) my point that he doesn't in fact hire the best people . . . he just boasts that he does."

Nope. That's not what I said. You clearly don't understand because you, by the looks of things, are not familiar with the whole saga surrounding Flynn, neither are you familiar with the current status of the case. I just tried to be as brief as possible. I was deliberately careful with how I formulated what I said. I was hoping that you would take note but I obviously overestimated your comprehension abilities. This was what I said:Mike Flynn was fired because "he lied to Trump and the FBI" [Note the " ".]. He was found guilty in court after pleading guilty. Trump had no choice. He had to fire him because of the guilty verdict.  "

I then went on to say, "But there is a massive kink in the cable and this saga is very far from over ....... ". Maybe you missed that as well. Shit happens.


So were you in the SADF? I did my two years national service and two camps but I certainly don't consider myself a "military guy".I'm guessing you were PF which explains both your . . . ummm . . . let's just say somewhat limited intelligence as well as your extreme right wing views. "

Yes, I was. I was in the SADF for 14 1/2 years and I had insight into some of the policies and decision making at the very top. That does not necessarily mean that I am an extreme right winger and I certainly do not have extreme right wing views. In fact, I don't think that extreme ultra left wingers like yourself can really judge "right wingers", since you regard anything even slightly towards the right of the ultra left as extreme right wing. So, you regarding my views as extreme right wing does not phase me at all. 

"I'm not in favour of a strong military " That is fine and it is perfectly OK as well. Military people have defended and fought for ages, some by paying with their lives, for you to have the right to say so.


" I think it's a complete waste of money. Conventional war has become largely obsolete and modern warfare seems to have become more trade and economic wars rather than military. "

Now this is where I agree with you 100% which is why I said: " Truth is though, that IMO the purpose of a strong military force is for it to be deployed if and when there is a threat to your country 

And in addition I have also said: ".....and not for political game playing in order to boost the arms industry  ". By that I meant that the arms industry or military industrial complex, have many politicians in the bag and, with the help of their lobbyists, are IMO a major driving force behind most, if not all, of these endless and senseless wars. 

That brings me back to the reason why I am in favour of Trump getting rid of Bolton and Mattis. Mattis, unlike Bolton who seems very bitter, is still a very strong supporter of Trump and still supports him fully bar the fact that they disagree about Iran. He wanted to retaliate against Iran in full force while Trump is convinced that even the Iran issue can be sorted around the table, rather than on the battlefield. I have, in fact, watched a video clip the other day of an interview with Gen Mattis that took place very recently where he was asked about all of this and he was very vocal in his ongoing support for Trump. 

Sep 11, 2019, 14:59

@clevermike

Proponents of an EU Army have cited the recent belligerent behavior of Russia as a reason for the need for an EU army. Even before Trump came to power in the US there is some in the EU that do not like relying on the US to do its fighting for it or like the fact that America are the defacto world police and want in that regard to be on a more level pegging in that regard. They also are coming to believe America is an unreliable security partner following Trumps changing views on Nato, his conciliatory tone with Putin and the abandonment of the Iranian Nuclear deal.

The EU does not oppress political opponents. I would know I live in an EU state. Many countries have anti-EU political parties and anti-EU news organisations, the UK had a referendum to leave the EU, they are free to operate and say what the like about the EU. There is no EU Gestapo going around rounding up opponents to it. In fact you could argue the EU is too passive in defending itself from the lies constantly peddled against it. I'd urge you not to believe the English nationalist man in the high castle dark fantasy that Germany actually won the war.

Sep 11, 2019, 15:22

Proponents of an EU Army have cited the recent belligerent behavior of Russia as a reason for the need for an EU army. “

Yet, they have no issue with Germany jumping in bed with Putin for oil?

“ Even before Trump came to power in the US there is some in the EU that do not like relying on the US to do its fighting for it or like the fact that America are the defacto world police and want in that regard to be on a more level pegging in that regard. They also are coming to believe America is an unreliable security partner following Trumps changing views on Nato, his conciliatory tone with Putin and the abandonment of the Iranian Nuclear deal.

Geez  there are so many assertions in there that begs to be challenged. How often don’t they call on the US and the expect the US to do it’s share?

Europe has helped create the image of the US being the world police. Only problem is that they expect the US tax payer to carry the can for that policing. That is at the core of Trump’s so called unreliability. He has said often enough that the USA do not mind helping to create and maintain peace. They just want someone to help paying for that.

The only “changing views” that Trump has about NATO is that everybody have to do their fair share in finding it as agreed. Since he wrapped the NATO member states over the knuckles the NATO chiefs are probably among Trump’s biggest fans since they finally seems to be getting the needed funding to do their jobs.

Sep 11, 2019, 15:44

". . . extreme ultra left wingers like yourself . . ."


Now you're just demonstrating how far to the right you are. 

I'm not even left wing let alone ultra left. I'm a moderate and my ideologies incorporate elements of conservative and liberal. For you to think I'm left wing would put you well to the right of the spectrum. For you to consider me "ultra left" puts you out there somewhere near Baboon-ou.

Just because I think the military is becoming obsolete doesn't mean I don't have great respect for soldiers who have given their lives over many centuries. The fact that you translate what I said as being disrespectful in any way tells me that I'm debating with a prejudiced fool. I don't see the point in pursuing this any further . . . and not one of you Trumpanzees has even attempted to debate my original point that Bozo does not in fact hire the best people as he likes to boast, he hires people that are nearly as incompetent and self-serving as he is.

Sep 11, 2019, 15:52

@ Rooinek, I was deliberately trying to indicate that your view of me being an extreme right winger is just an opinion based on your own political views.

“I'm not even left wing let alone ultra left. I'm a moderate and my ideologies incorporate elements of conservative and liberal. For you to think I'm left wing would put you well to the right of the spectrum. “

That proves my point exactly. I am not even remotely extreme right wing as you would suggest.

But you are correct. There is no point in continuing our debate. We will never agree. The fact that you cannot even agree to respect soldiers who have paid the ultimate price just goes to show.

Sep 11, 2019, 16:07

Face facts rooibozo is a very far left radical lunatic. He is in love with Liz Warren. 

The new EU leader has just crushed mommy's boy Macron hopes when she came out and said there would be no EU army.

But wee Macron shouldn't be too discouraged because she is lying through her teeth. 

But Macron should be discouraged as it's doubtful the EU will be around too much longer. Dispite the Remoaners trying to stop an election they can't for too long. Then Britain will exit and the unraveling begins. 

Sep 11, 2019, 16:13

Rooibozo there is nothing moderate about you at all. 

You obsessional hatred of Trump, conservatives, Christians etc give you away.

You love LGBT, murderous muslim radicals and all manner of foul things.

You are also a mindless parrot of CNN regurgitating their BS day by day and then being proven to be a witless Clown.

Anyhow its great fun so thanks for your comic  "contributions".


Sep 11, 2019, 17:03

@ceradyne

The need for Russian oil and gas for Germany might have something to do with the German government not wanting its citizens to freeze to death during winter. Germany and Europe in general doesn't have an abundance supply of its own oil and gas within its territory (its one of the reasons the Germans invaded the Soviet Union in WWII). Russia is the closest and most efficient source of oil and gas for Germany's needs and was a needed before Russia started acting aggressively on its boarder.  Even if Germany wanted to impose stricter sanctions on Russia and try to source its oil from elsewhere its would be likely not feasible to do so.

I'm just stating the reasons proponents for an EU army want an EU army. I'm not saying I agree with them. I have said this already in other posts, I actually agree with Trump and the American view that European Nato powers should meet their financial obligations to Nato if the believe its valuable and worthwhile organisation. If not they should leave it. The US should not be expected to pay for other nations defense needs. 

Having said that I think Europe has a fair point when it comes to Trumps views on Russia and Iran. 



Sep 11, 2019, 17:11

Actually ....you never know for sure if somebody, even with the best credentials, will work out in the job. The good managers, and Trump is one of them, act quickly if somebody isn't going to work out.

Stick with moz.

Sep 11, 2019, 17:42

@Stav. 

I cannot understand the EU's difficulty to understand Trump's beef with Russia and Iran. We could probably go into a long debate over this but in short his issues with Iran and Russia, IMO, are quite similar. Apart from all the other political shyte with the US elections and stuff, the main issue is that they have not stuck to the NPT. The Iran issue boils down to the same thing. Iran ignored the conditions of the useless "Iran Deal". The irony is that when Obama "antagonised" Putin by expelling Russian diplomats, the EU applauded him. It is particularly ironic in the light of the findings of the Mueller Report.

Sep 11, 2019, 18:56

@Ceradyne

Every intelligence agency in the world (with the exception of Israel, who aren't exactly neutral on the issue) including American intelligence agencies said Iran was honoring the NPT. Trump ditched the agreement purely out of spite against Obama.

Europe doesn't give a toss if Obama "antagonized" Putin, it does care about Russia invading and annexing part of a neighboring country, which had nothing to do with Obama but Russia felling like the EU was encroaching on its sphere of influence. The EU  doesn't like it as well when Russia is killing and attempting to kill people in EU states.

Sep 12, 2019, 00:07

Duplication

Sep 12, 2019, 00:07

Stav

I think there is a number of problems with Russia that should be put into perspective seen also in  the context of any problems of a warlike situation involving Russia.

In the first instance one has to look at what happened in the case off the Ukraine under the Communists,   In an effort to ensure that Ukraine remains in bed the Communist regime redrew the Ukrainian border to include millions of ethnic Russians in Ukraine.   Fact is the Ukrainians were never trusted by the Communist regime ever and a countering situation had to be developed to ensure that they retain control  of the Ukraine.   It is also historical and must go back to -

*   the Russian conquest  of Ukraine under Catherine the Great to ensure migration of ethnic Russians into part of Ukraine and especially into the Crimea with the result that the majority of residents ended up being ethnic Russians;

*   Stalin played a major role in that he depopulated the Crimea through sending the ethnic Crimeans (mostly Muslims) to Siberia concentration camps and after his much celebrated death a very small percentage of the Crimeans sent to Siberia survived  and returned to the Crimea;

*    The conduct of the ethnic Ukrainians during World War 2 showed that the Communists had to do something to neutralize the impact of the ethnic Ukrainians - so in 1953 the borders of the Ukraine was redrawn to ensure that in future Ukraine will remain loyal to the USSR by having a 50:50 scenario population wise in the Ukraine.

Come 1991 and the situation was that independence of Ukraine let to an unsustainable situation in Ukraine.   The population of the Crimea was for instance 80% ethnic Russians and after  Ukraine got independence Ukraine effectively was governed by the ethnic Russian component of the Ukrainian population.   When that changed in 2014 the situation became explosive and the end result was that the ethnic Russians and especially those in the Crimea rebelled against the Ukrainians.   The Crimea was since the 1700 hundreds an area with a major Russian ethnic majority.  By 1991 the population groups in Ukraine was 80% Russians, 15%  Crimea Tatars and 5%  Ukrainians. 

That kind of situation was untenable and bound to lead to major problems.   I know the modern EU countries are not pro-ethnic states and their sympathies were totally against the  Russians who rebelled against the new Ukrainian  Government.   Instead of accepting that the situation should be dealt with objectively they turned  their full wrath against the Russians.

However, they were not consistent  in what they did historically.  At the end of World War 1 they created a number of countries to break up the Austrian-Hungarian Empire.  The biggest disasters were the combination of population groups in countries like -

*   the inclusion of Transylvania with its Hungarian population in Romania;

*   the formation of Czechoslovakia;

*   the bound to fail state of  Yugoslavia as a nation state.

We all know what the result was of that artificial situation.   The wars in Yugoslavia dragged on for years and more people were killed in Yugoslavia than was killed in the Ukraine.  Czechoslovakia broke up into two separate states and the Romanian Transylvania is another powder keg that could lead to serious problems in future.

So what is so unique about the Ukraine?   Why could the EU not accept that the Ukrainian problem should be dealt with the same way than what was done  in for instance Yugoslavia?   The situation was relatively easy - negotiate to redraw the borders of the Ukraine to ensure that the ethnic problems are sorted out,  But the EU would not do that because they are basically against nation states and for elimination of ethnicity.

I do not think Russia actually pose a threat to anyone and to talk of Russian ambitions is in fact misleading.    However,  if there ever was a war situation involving the EU and Russia, the Russians will cut off the oil and gas supplies and Germany and the rest of Europe will be out of commission within a week.  In that Trump is right - you cannot be dependent on a potential enemy for crucial elements of the defensive needs as well as  domestic and economic needs of people. 

It is fear-some that the EU in fact could effectively develop into a new "empire" controlled through a mindboggling level of propaganda and  brainwashing, thus undermining the concept of democracy,                                                               

 


Sep 12, 2019, 00:14

"That proves my point exactly. I am not even remotely extreme right wing as you would suggest."

Really?

This from the brainwashed and indoctrinated unashamed supporter of the Apartheid Regime and its Apartheid policies. 

Yeah right!

Sep 12, 2019, 11:54

You clearly have no idea about the political spectrum, fool. And you have no idea as to what my views of the previous SA government was. You don’t know me well enough to make this kind of claim.

Above all, just like every second delusional left wing looney you like to jump to conclusions, based on your own political bias.

Sep 12, 2019, 11:59

BTW, mushroom, how many times have you, all tear eyed with rage, screeched at me that you would ignore my posts and not respond to them and yet, here we are again.

I suspect that any time now, you will be telling me once again that you are not interested in my posts, that you ignore them and are not interested in communicating with me.

Sep 12, 2019, 12:48

Sav

I am not sure about who actually win wars.   In the case of the Anglo Boer War the short term winners were the UK.   By 2010 the Boers who lost the War took over the Government of the country and the UK never really attained dominance in SA politics.

In the case of the First World War the Allies destroyed stability in Europe and in the case of Russia the Communists were assisted financially by some institutions in the Allies set-up to take over Government in Russia and a number of independent states were created that caused chaos in the world leading to the Secoind World War,   

Within twenty years after losing in the Second World War the German and Japanese economies were stronger than those of most of the Allies bar the USA.   At this stage Germany dominates the political situation in the EU and  in the EU economy.   The UK and France dropped down in the world status.     

My own opinion is that wars have strange consequences that are unpredictable.   Wars in the last 150 years proved that over and over again.   Take for instance the Iraq war and the actions of the USA and the EU in Afghanistan.   It did not solve the problems - it just created new ones of even a greater disaster than originally existed,     The traditional Arab system of Government will not be replaced by a democratic form of Government,   They should be left to their own devices.

By the way Trump is correct in his efforts to get out of the war mire created by his predecessors.   He is also correct about the Iran Treaty.   Iran had double the amount of enriched Uranium  they were allowed to in the treaty and  enriched uranium to a higher level than the Treaty provided for.   That was kept out of the public view by the signees who feared the situation might backfire on them - but is now common knowledge.   Iran laughed up their sleeves and cheated on the treaty from the word go.

           

    

Sep 12, 2019, 12:52

What a GREAT post Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!

So what is so unique about the Ukraine?   Why could the EU not accept that the Ukrainian problem should be dealt with the same way than what was done  in for instance Yugoslavia?   The situation was relatively easy - negotiate to redraw the borders of the Ukraine to ensure that the ethnic problems are sorted out,  But the EU would not do that because they are basically against nation states and for elimination of ethnicity.(Exactly - use open borders and espouse multiculturalism)

I do not think Russia actually pose a threat to anyone and to talk of Russian ambitions is in fact misleading.    However,  if there ever was a war situation involving the EU and Russia, the Russians will cut off the oil and gas supplies and Germany and the rest of Europe will be out of commission within a week.  In that Trump is right - you cannot be dependent on a potential enemy for crucial elements of the defensive needs as well as  domestic and economic needs of people. (Explained all this to Stav but he is a very slow learner. Actually the estvon is why cant he see the obvious!! Even after having it pointed out to him he brings up the same stupid point. )

It is fear-some that the EU in fact could effectively develop into a new "empire" controlled through a mind boggling level of propaganda and  brainwashing, thus undermining the concept of democracy,  

Mike the Globalists had Europe. They thought they had North America with Clinton and Trudeau. They also have other smaller countries in the world like nz as its clear their horsey PM is a globalist sunk. So all in all they would have controlled well over 50% of the world's economy. Then its control over the UN. its control over the economy's of the world via massive multi national trade deals and via Climate Change. its control over law by getting countries to abide by UN laws and iCC. its open borders via the UN migration pact and multiculturalism. Any idea of independent nation states vs anthema to them.

See my post re Lou Dobbs on Beeno's Trumpet. What is amazing is how openly Dobbs talks about Globalism. He calls it a dirty word!

Slowly the nation states of the WORLD will be forced to surrender sovereignty!!!!!!!!! Watch the battle over Brexit. The elite Globalist forces are fighting with all the have to overturn the Referendum and the will of the British people. Parliament is not Sovereign its the people who they serve who are sovereign. Britain voted to LEAVE (nothing about ba deal or no deal) LEAVE MEANS LEAVE.

Meanwhile the Globalist have imported so many foreigners London has a minority of British people living there. The capital is now called Londonistan and the mayor is a muslim.

The situation is desperate for the British and unfortunately the propaganda and brainwashing has had great success. To me though the tide has turned and people are fvghting back.

Sep 12, 2019, 12:52


Sep 12, 2019, 12:52

Duplicate

Sep 12, 2019, 12:57

Windpomp dont worry too much about dense denise. He is not called dense for nothing!

Sep 12, 2019, 14:08

I don’t worry about him. I take pity on him.

Sep 12, 2019, 17:29

Typical...hit, insult, accuse, demand answers, ridicule and then run...till next time that is....same MO time after time.

Sep 12, 2019, 19:44

Handled with consummate ease:D

Sep 13, 2019, 08:45

"BTW, mushroom, how many times have you, all tear eyed with rage, (1) screeched at me that you would (2) ignore my posts and not respond to them and yet, here we are again.

I suspect that any time now, you will be telling me once again that you are not interested in my posts, that you ignore them and are (3) not interested in communicating with me."

(1) Actually Ceradunce, humans don't screech, they umm shriek, metal screeches, so does rubber, like in tyres but naah not human beings........got that?....... good.

(2) I didn't reply to your post, replying to your post would mean that I'd addressed a response to you, clearly it's something I didn't do. I made an unaddressed statement. Spot the difference Hmmmm? (more about this later)

(3) Well that's a kind of yes or no, you've obviously forgotten that we had let's say a healthy debate about mass shootings, I say healthy because it ended with you having the last say and that we'd agreed to disagree. The "No" applies when as Koosie has indicated you become biased and prejudiced.

Just a few things for you to digest, don't bother thanking me.

All that's left for me to say is that you started this, I merely retaliated. Surprise surprise Huh? Well go back to my post where I "ASK" ...Would I be correct in saying....." It is a straight up and down question with no strings attached and BTW in that post I emphasise that it is merely a question.

Two posters responded with reasonable answers which I was happy to accept, but you of course, had to serve me an insult as part of your response. Well Sucker I don't mind a few plums being tossed at me but don't expect me to accept it lying down. You should know by now that I give as good as I get. 

I never knew name calling and lying was a part of your make-up but it seems as if I'm wrong......winning an argument is all important huh? Then again having the support of the peanut gallery should do wonders to your tainted self esteem. You are right if you're saying that I don't know you but from previous shall we say "discussions" I gathered a fair amount of your political leanings and beliefs. As for me being a "Leftist Looney"....I'd like to know what you base that on as I regard myself as a moderate and a good one at that, truth be told I despise both your Apartheid Party as well as the ANC.

And oh, I'm curious, why do you pity me?

 


Sep 13, 2019, 13:00

The "No" applies when as Koosie has indicated you become biased and prejudiced don't agree wit us and accept our assertions as gospel.  "

Fixed.

 
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