Covid-19 - SA

Forum » Beenos Trumpet » Covid-19 - SA

Jul 09, 2020, 15:45

Beeno

I decided to rather open a new thread to discuss your ludicrous assertions in the other thread, that using the current USA stats to advise South African's about how to react or treat this virus, is 100% correct

You say...

"While there may be slight differences between populations re deaths per age group your figures are complete nonsense.. "

"DA please try to come to grips with the science oak. Chances are you could if you were not so lazy."

Boy are you one seriously stupid guy....the only lazy one here is you Beeno… and for a qualified chartered accountant, you seriously don't do your profession any justice dude.

You want to use the USA figures to convince us what the actual "correct" death rate percentages are for ages.... using science?

Ok, so let me get this very clear then:

We don't have the same financial resources as the USA

We don't have the necessary numbers of vital hospital equipment, to handle this epidemic, that the USA does

We don't have the necessary medicine to treat everyone like the USA does

We have nowhere near the same daily hygiene practices in South Africa that the USA does... any health care is better than the horseshit we have here, except if you are lucky to have a very good medical aid, which I fortunately have.

Millions in South Africa have no access to immediate water.....so cannot even wash their hands once a day, never mind multiple times a day. 

We don't have enough qualified nurses or doctors here in South Africa

We don't have the credible and professional advisors in South Africa that the USA does

We don't have the same public health systems in South Africa

We don't have the same public transport systems here in South Africa

We have different belief systems here in SA.... millions still believe a witchdoctor will cure them

We have different ancestry beliefs.... millions still believe the sangoma's are talking to their forefathers to heal them

We have different medicinal beliefs..... millions still believe that "Muti" will kill any virus they have

We have millions and millions of people living and sharing tin shacks with 8 and more people, which totally exacerbates the spread of this virus in South Africa....

We have far more people with comorbidities, population percentage wise, in South Africa, such as Aids, TB, Malaria, Malnutrtion, poverty.... to name just a few

We have a R60 billion a year taxi industry which just says a big "fuck you" to the government, and continues to 100% load their taxi's to full capacity.... to prevent loss of revenue.... and if not, they just shoot and kill other transporters

We have millions of people every day.... standing on top of each other for Sassa, UIF, food grants, child grants...… spreading the virus

We have a R60 billion a year taxi industry which just says a big "fuck you" to the government, and continues to cross all provincial borders illegally... so that their taxi's don't lose revenue....spreading the virus throughout the country.

Now testing in South Africa is being restricted in some places to only people over the age of 55.... reducing all numbers of results

South Africa is also very fast heading to being in the top 5 in the world, with total confirmed cases...…. and we were 32nd place in May..... we are now 13th...… we have doubled our total national confirmed Covid case numbers, in the last 14 days alone.

I ask again, are you and your family walking around every day with no masks on, in public spaces.......

This is just "some" of the information that is available...… and you want to use the USA stats to preach utter shit here?

You are a fucking joke

Jul 09, 2020, 16:06

DA

There is a further problem as well and that is the diet of too many people in SA weakens the natural resistance of people to infections and there are widescale TB and AIDS problems as well.   

The lockdown has lost a  lot of people their jobs and starvation has \been reported, which inevitably will cause more deaths.

The future looks bleaker by the day,    We have been lucky in the Riversdale area where there were only 9 infections and  6 have recovered.   One ran away - nobody knows where to  and the other two is in isolation.   That is rather rare in SA at present,   

Jul 09, 2020, 16:30

I fully agree with you Mike.... that is why I specifically mentioned the malnutrition / poverty

Hence why I cannot understand how stupid Beeno genuinely is, to even compare our Covid numbers to the USA numbers, and then proceed to try and lecture us continuously to use those numbers when we are making our own decisions on what ages are affected, who it actually affects, and whether to wear a mask or not..... oh.... and the percentages that you have of dying per age group

The bloke is as stupid as you can possibly get.....

Jul 09, 2020, 16:35

First person I know probably died of Covid earlier this week. She was in her early 40's. if even 40. Very sad.

Jul 09, 2020, 16:44

Sorry to hear that Draad……

Sadly, we are all going to probably say that at some point, before this is all over...… I just genuinely hope that we never have to say it about somebody here

Our under 40's stats are nothing compared to anywhere else, purely because our infrastructure.... systems..... people..... lifestyle..... demographics.... are not like any other first world country....

Our resident qualified accountant has no idea what he is talking about


Jul 09, 2020, 19:21

Confirmed Covid...and she was 41...a bit chubby, but healthy...gave grade R to my eldest and pre-grade R to my other 2 boys. Great person... like family... very sad loss...but not actual family...yet...:(

Jul 09, 2020, 20:20

Initially, it looked like COVID was going to be worse in the cold countries, but it just seems to have spread their first. 


With South America doing badly, it became clear that this virus is also deadly in warm conditions- especially during the winter. 

With the big spikes in South Africa, it is spreading fast.
It is estimated that 1 in 10 cases is reported, and in Africa, it must be an even lower number. 

If it says 10,000 cases in SA- then it is more like hundreds of thousands. 

Jul 09, 2020, 22:04

Er...no...our figures ate in line with the projected for the extra deaths plus our recovery rate for known cases are also much better than elsewhere in the world.  We are doing great. This can't be stopped here...impossible...we need to slow it down and weather the storm as good as we can. If we die, life still goes on for the rest...life in Africa. 

Jul 09, 2020, 23:49

Still not that much data in SA compared to some countries. SA is just starting to become an epidemic when it starts to spread like wildfire. 


Life will go on but concerning none the less...

Jul 10, 2020, 06:48

Concerning indeed, but nothing apocalyptic llike the fear mongering by some would suggest. 

Jul 10, 2020, 07:50

Last Thursday we topped 8 000 cases, for the first time....  within a 24 hour period

The very next day... Friday, it was 9 000

Saturday it was 10 000 cases

Yesterday our 24 hour confirmed case number was over 13 000

Yep, I know.....the number of tests done daily.... has a direct impact on this number

I also fully agree with Draad, this fear mongering needs to stop......but certain people are always out to make money...… it's disgusting

At the same time, stupid people like Beeno need to wake the fuck up and realise that this is just as serious as some people are making it out to be, and the only time people actually come around to agreeing with this kind of mentality…. is when they... or someone close to them.... is affected by it..... which is clearly already too late

Then you also get stupid, reckless and very idiotic people like Beeno who constantly preaches to a forum full of people, and possibly his friends and colleagues at home, that they must definitely not wear a mask.... if they want to live a healthy life.....

Beeno, you very clearly don't care at all what happens to other people, including people on this forum, and their families......so rather just shut the fuck up



Jul 10, 2020, 08:22

Here are Beeno's wise words of wisdom from the previous thread

"A surgical mask stops particles larger than 3 micron. The Wuhan virus is 1 micron. Cloth masks are TOTALLY useless." 

Here are direct verbatim quotes, from the "Center for Disease Control and Prevention" website....right at the very top of their page..... you do not even need to scroll down at all, to read all this information

  • - CDC recommends that people wear cloth face coverings in public settings and when around  people who don’t live in your household, especially when other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain.
  • - Cloth face coverings may help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus to others.
  • - Cloth face coverings are most likely to reduce the spread of COVID-19 when they are widely used by people in public settings.
  • - Cloth face coverings should NOT be worn by children under the age of 2 or anyone who has trouble breathing, is unconscious, incapacitated, or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance.
  • Evidence for Effectiveness of Cloth Face Coverings

    woman wearing face covering, with a detail showing how the cloth barrier helps to contain respiratory droplets that she exhales

    Cloth face coverings are recommended as a simple barrier to help prevent respiratory droplets from traveling into the air and onto other people when the person wearing the cloth face covering coughs, sneezes, talks, or raises their voice.

    This is called source control. This recommendation is based on what we know about the role respiratory droplets play in the spread of the virus that causes COVID-19, paired with emerging evidence from clinical and laboratory studies that shows cloth face coverings reduce the spray of droplets when worn over the nose and mouth.

    COVID-19 spreads mainly among people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet), so the use of cloth face coverings is particularly important in settings where people are close to each other or where social distancing is difficult to maintain.

    Who Should Wear A Cloth Face Covering?

     General public

    • CDC recommends all people 2 years of age and older wear a cloth face covering in public settings and when around people who don’t live in your household, especially when other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain
    • COVID-19 can be spread by people who do not have symptoms and do not know that they are infected. That’s why it’s important for everyone to wear cloth face coverings in public settings and practice social distancing (staying at least 6 feet away from other people).
    • While cloth face coverings are strongly encouraged to reduce the spread of COVID-19, CDC recognizes there are specific instances when wearing a cloth face covering may not be feasible.

    You are more than welcome to check this information out here

    CDC

    Next time you want to play with people's lives Beeno, get your facts straight....

    As I said Beeno….. rather just shut the fuck up.... you selfish.. reckless twat.... and I would also say stick to numbers..... but even with your university qualifications.... you aren't even good at that.

    Jul 10, 2020, 16:37

    Beeno….

    I see no blanket apology to the people on this forum...... for you continuously spreading the incorrect information, every single day..... which could have ended up with very deadly consequences....

    It's the least you could do..... if you were an honourable person

    Fortunately the posters here already know how stupid you can be....

    And you say I was the one who was too lazy to check the facts and the stats out about this...

    You fucking idiot

    Jul 10, 2020, 16:47

    DA, I didn't read the CDC mask comments yet....jyst the following.  The virus is 3 times smaller than what the mask stops, but the virus is normally not airborne on it's own, but normally present within saliva particles that the mask will stop. The masks are not 100% effective, but even if they're just 50% effective, it will make a massive difference...we should do as much as we can.

    Jul 10, 2020, 17:09

    DA fact-checking Beeno...:)

    Maybe there should be an automatic link under Beeno's posts as "BS - in need of fact-checking".
    Doctors wear surgical masks because they are better than nothing. Common sense really. :angel:

    Jul 10, 2020, 17:11

    "The masks are not 100% effective, but even if they're just 50% effective, it will make a massive difference...we should do as much as we can"

    Yep, agreed Draad….. but we have our resident infectious disease specialist making statements like this to everyone:

    So let's wear masks that don't work in preventing infection

    Masks cannot stop the minute Wuhan Virus

    The death rate for 45 and under is almost zero

    The Wuhan Virus is the biggest hoax in world history

    I should have posted the article by a neuro surgeon saying what dangers these mask have

    Cloth masks are TOTALLY useless

    He is a reckless fucking idiot.... pure and simple

    Jul 10, 2020, 17:12

    "Doctors wear surgical masks because they are better than nothing. Common sense really:

    LMAO, you would really think so hey Sharkie

    Jul 10, 2020, 17:20

    "DA, I didn't read the CDC mask comments yet"

    Maybe do that Draad…. and understand a bit more into why I believe that Beeno is being reckless, stupid.... as well as just basically being a downright fucking idiot

    Jul 13, 2020, 09:01

    "South Africa is also very fast heading to being in the top 5 in the world, with total confirmed cases...…. and we were 32nd place in May..... we are now 13th...… we have doubled our total national confirmed Covid case numbers, in the last 14 days alone."

    So now we have moved into 10th place, and we are just about to overtake the UK into 9th place in the world.... and very quickly heading to that top 5 spot that I recently spoke about.....

    "We have a R60 billion a year taxi industry which just says a big "fuck you" to the government, and continues to 100% load their taxi's to full capacity.... to prevent loss of revenue.... and if not, they just shoot and kill other transporters"

    So now, it has been decided by our remarkable leaders, that intertown trips with taxi's is ok to pack a taxi to 100% capacity...… because they are short trips...and the windows must be opened.

    "We have a R60 billion a year taxi industry which just says a big "fuck you" to the government, and continues to cross all provincial borders illegally... so that their taxi's don't lose revenue....spreading the virus throughout the country."

    So now, it is perfectly fine to do inter provincial taxi travel. provided that the taxi is not loaded by more than 70% capacity

    What a fucking farce.....

    About 2 months ago, I said on this forum.... just wait until the end of June - July...…. never mind September - November.. when our "peak" was supposed to occur

    It is one of those times where a person wishes that they were dead wrong


    Jul 13, 2020, 09:12

    Don't worry DA, the curfew is back to keep everyone off the streets during that pesky "dark hours of the morning" peak time when the crowds are just out of control. That should cancel out the taxi threat :P

    Jul 13, 2020, 09:29

    Lol, Pakie

    Jul 13, 2020, 10:10

    60 Billion taxi industry ....... wonder how much the taxman collects from the gangsters..

    Jul 13, 2020, 10:44

    Crazy numbers blobbok

    Some other interesting stats about the taxi industry

    - People using the taxi service every day - 14 - 15 million

    - Average time spent by each person in a taxi, per day - 65 minutes

    - Average number of people transported in each taxi, per month - 3 161

    - Average number of taxi trips per day, per person - 2.3

    - Total travel distance in one year - 19 billion kilometers

    - Total of taxi's operating in South Africa - 250 000

    - Taxi related deaths - 3 per day

    - 43% of all assassinations in South Africa is taxi related

    - 69% of all South African households utilise taxi transport

    All this, and they still reckon they can maintain, curb or prevent the unecessary spread of Covid-19

    What a complete joke

    Jul 14, 2020, 11:40

     I don't know how legit the following is...and I haven't made up my mind about the prolonged wearing of masks yet. I know that I prefer my kids to rather use the visor at school. 


    Jul 14, 2020, 12:09

    Wearing a mask all day is definitely not healthy, you're inhaling your own carbon dioxide. 30 minutes with one on my face and I start developing a headache, and many people I know have the same complaint. So I wear it only when I enter a shop or have to interact with someone. Soon as I leave it comes off.

    Jul 14, 2020, 12:42

    "I know that I prefer my kids to rather use the visor at school"

    Fully agree Draad, as do most parents..... some parents use the mask and the visor for very limited periods of time or in escalated areas where infections could occur.

    "Wearing a mask all day is definitely not healthy, you're inhaling your own carbon dioxide. 30 minutes with one on my face and I start developing a headache, and many people I know have the same complaint. So I wear it only when I enter a shop or have to interact with someone. Soon as I leave it comes off"

    Exactly Pakie, 100% correct... as I already said myself, I hate the bloody things, but as you mention here…. common sense still prevails at the end of the day..... take it off as soon as you have finished what you need to do, but keep it on whilst in the company of others.

    Our resident infectious disease specialist... Beeno, has been preaching for weeks that everyone on this forum, and their families and friends.... must definitely not wear these masks at all.....because they are detrimental to your health and they are utterly useless to anyone.

    Now Beeno realises that once I challenged him on this particular continuous bullshit statement of his...... he looked like the complete and utter twat that he was behaving like...… what a very stupid man.... who supposedly has some degrees behind him..... sheeeesh man…. that level of total ignorance and downright stupidity for a educated man is quite shocking  

    Now, it seems a lot of countries around the world are making it compulsory to wear masks in public..... SA has just done it...…. the UK is implementing it next week as law...….

    Wow Beeno……. what a sad case this was for you dude...… you imploded in a spectacular fashion......…. shown up for the complete and utterly stupid educated idiot that you are

    Jul 14, 2020, 14:40

    You must know it is getting even more serious than we thought..... when Trump himself starts wearing a mask

    LMFAO

    Took him long enough

    Jul 14, 2020, 15:56

    Trump should have done it a long time ago. No one wears a mask better than him.

    Jul 14, 2020, 17:18

    Give it a week or two . . . he'll be telling us he was the first to start wearing a mask . . . and his Trumpanzees will believe him!

    Jul 14, 2020, 21:02

    "Trump should have done it a long time ago. No one wears a mask better than him."


    Indeed Pakie indeed...like a BOSS!

    Jul 15, 2020, 09:43

    Crazy that by the end of this week, we will probably officially be in the top 5 in the world.... for confirmed total cases.... and our peak is still supposed to only be around September - October

    Fucking nuts

    Jul 15, 2020, 10:51

    I wish the British government would make up it's mind about how to finally deal with this pandemic and set down some solid ground rules...

    No wonder people in the UK are so incredibly confused.

    Boris has done a abysmal job as PM, and Matt Hancock is a national joke

    Absolutely pathetic

    Jul 15, 2020, 11:16

    Straight talkers and action takers don't make it in politics. The majority wants the corrupt spineless weeds who don't say or do anything offensive, try to please everyone and bend like saplings in the wind. They also don't get anything useful done, but that's a small price to pay for everyone's safe spaces staying intact.

    Jul 15, 2020, 11:26

    About 90 days ago, JHB had 1 case. Now it has 100 000. 

    Having more people in the population with it makes it harder for the virus to spread. 

    How much harder?

    At some point, it will be so difficult that instead of 1 case spreading to 100 000 people over 90 days, it only infects 500 people. Or another way of saying it is that at that point it will be 99.5% more difficult for the virus to spread. 

    100 000 presently known cases x 500 new infections per case = 50 000 000 in 90 days.

    That's almost everyone in the country.

    Wonky?

    Jul 15, 2020, 12:22

    It's so difficult to monitor where this will go.. and here's why

    We recently completely doubled our total national positive cases...... in less than 14 days......however, at the same time, not that long after this happened ….not testing people under the age of 55 was also implemented in some areas, so that they could focus on the more elderly residents over 55..... so this also had the side effect of also negating all the total confirmed new cases that they may have had from testing the under 55's...…

    Maybe Beeno can advise

    LMFAO

    Jul 15, 2020, 12:23

    "Straight talkers and action takers don't make it in politics. The majority wants the corrupt spineless weeds who don't say or do anything offensive, try to please everyone and bend like saplings in the wind."

    Ain't that the truth Pakie

    Jul 15, 2020, 12:27

    "Having more people in the population with it makes it harder for the virus to spread."

    Agreed Plum

    However, with the way that the taxi association runs this SA government, I believe it just changes the playing fields too much

    Jul 16, 2020, 10:34

    "Crazy that by the end of this week, we will probably officially be in the top 5 in the world"

    We just overtook Spain to number 8th position.... and we are only just 26 675 cases behind number 5th spot.....

    Moer people.....

    Jul 16, 2020, 11:15

    It's not really surprising. You can't compare us with a third world country. Millions of our people live on top of one another in townships. Millions dependent on sardine can public transport. Millions have to queue for social grants. Add in the couldn't care attitude and there you go.

    Jul 16, 2020, 12:57

    "It's not really surprising. You can't compare us with a third world country. Millions of our people live on top of one another in townships. Millions dependent on sardine can public transport. Millions have to queue for social grants. Add in the couldn't care attitude and there you go."

    Correct Pakie

    Precisely why I was so against Beeno's stupid, ridiculous and blatant reckless messages

    Jul 17, 2020, 12:56

    Jul 16, 2020, 10:34
                                      

    "Crazy that by the end of this week, we will probably officially be in the top 5 in the world"

    We just overtook Spain to number 8th position.... and we are only just 26 675 cases behind number 5th spot.....

    We are not wasting any time...…. straight to number 6th spot

    Jul 17, 2020, 14:04

    My calc's say another 3 days before we crack 5th, but we South Africans overachieve in the stupidest of things..., so it might even be sooner.

    Jul 17, 2020, 14:32

    I agree Draad, that has to be a pretty close and accurate assessment

    My own sums predicted that we would hit 329 154 cases by the 31st July.... boy was I way off

    Then it's a small break, whilst we gather our momentum to chase Russia down in 4th place. 

    To think that our "peak" has not even arrived yet......

    Jul 19, 2020, 11:34

    Well 5th we are...watch out Russia, here we come.


    I think the Western Cape is just past the peak...our curve looks different than the rest...but it's a bit early to say for sure.

    What is crystal clear though is that our government is doing a bizarrely poor job at curbing this. It almost look like they are making a deliberate effort to make things worse and profiteer from the chaos.  

    Evil bastards. The taxpayers and middleclass almost being targeted by stupid regulations while the taxis run rampant in spreading the virus...looks like deliberate incompetence. 



    Jul 20, 2020, 07:48

    Yep, it didn't take long at all..... Russia, here we come

    If anything, what this has shown most people around the world, is the complete lack of anything good or decent.... that this government has done for it's people.. since they took power over 20 years ago.

    It has also put a huge magnifying glass onto the utter corrupt nature of the ANC

    I genuinely feel for the disadvantaged people of SA.... those without a voice...…. but at the same time, I wonder in amazement why the "people" who can actually say and do something, would willingly still continue to vote to keep them in control... all the time..... the fear of the past must be incredible, which is so sad

    Jul 20, 2020, 09:31

    Proof that actual brainwashing is a reality.

    Jul 20, 2020, 09:40

    "Proof that actual brainwashing is a reality."

    Very much alive and well in Sunny South Africa

    Let's hope, that as a country, we can perform like our national cricket side often does, and not chase down this big target

    Jul 20, 2020, 09:41

    Ramaphosa falls victim to Covid-1

    William Saunderson-Meyer says the President's weaknesses have been mercilessly exposed by the epidemic

    JAUNDICED EYE

    Covid may be set to claim its biggest victim

    Brazil’s President Jair Bolsonaro contracted Covid-19 last week. 

    He joins a select albeit unfortunate international club: the prime ministers of Britain, Russia and Guinea-Bissau; the president of Honduras; a sprinkling of cabinet ministers and top politicians in virtually every country in the world; and a brace of blue bloods, the princes Charles of Wales and Albert of Monaco. President Donald I-don't-wear-masks Trump has, so far, escaped infection, to the rue of at least half of the world that has been secretly holding thumbs.

    None of these leaders has succumbed. The biggest casualty, so far, has been the dented pride of Bolsonaro, who finds himself laid low by a virus that he denies exists.

    Astonishingly, given that the assembled ranks of this African National Congress administration’s Cabinet look like a medical poster for dangerous comorbidities like obesity, none aside from Mineral Resources & Energy Minister Gwede Mantashe has contracted the virus. The explanation no doubt lies in their abstemious habits as regards alcohol and tobacco. (Oh, for those halcyon days when a previous health minister would bribe the nurses to smuggle her bottles of whisky while she lay recovering from a liver transplant necessitated by her fondness for the demon drink.)

    There is, however, one top South African fatality potentially lined up. It’s President Cyril Ramaphosa himself. 

    Not a medical casualty, but a political one. After a promising start by the president when the pandemic first surfaced, Ramaphosa’s performance is, at last, coming under some critical examination.

    After scoring a perfect 10 from commentators for speed out of the blocks and initial form, Ramaphosa's execution has tapered off and his administration has flailed around the pandemic. Sluggish, unfocused, ineffectual, and erratic, are all adjectives that spring to mind to describe the president.

    Admittedly, the crowds still love him. Polls consistently show Ramaphosa to be one of the most highly regarded leaders by the voters, anywhere in the world. A recent News24 poll of 52,000 readers scored him 7.34 out of 10 for his handling of the Covid outbreak.

    But internally, within the African National Congress and its alliance, it's not so rosy. It's obvious that despite two and half years in power, he has still not managed to stamp his authority over the Zuma-remnants. On the contrary, the pandemic has emboldened them — with an additional 3m unemployed since the March lockdown, the populist and racist mantras espoused by the fascists in the Economic Freedom Fighters and the hard-left in the ANC will likely find a ready electoral ear.

    During the past four months of the pandemic, some of his Cabinet ministers have been overt in their disdain towards Ramaphosa, especially Police Minister Bheki Cele and the president's arch-rival, Co-operative Affairs & Governance Minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma.

    The president has been forced into humiliating flip-flops on cigarette bans and alcohol sales, wilting like an errant schoolboy before the imperious school ma’am, Dlamini-Zuma. At least, on health issues such as these, he can portray his weakness as evidence of an admirable openness to persuasion by expert opinion.

    However, no such rationalisation is possible when it comes to his reflexive bending of the knee to Cele, the Cat in the Hat police minister, and the other securocrats. He has faced repeated challenges and each time he has backed down.

    At the very start of the lockdown, Ramaphosa called on the military to treat citizens with respect, compassion and humility. “This is not a skop, skiet en donder [kick, shoot and beat] moment,” he told them.

    The put-down came within hours from Defence Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula. “It will only be skop, skiet en donder when circumstances determine that,” she said. “For now, we’re a constitutional democracy.” 

    Cele — who also overruled Ramaphosa ally Health Minister Zweli Mkhize on whether outside exercise would be allowed and later bizarrely decreed that motorists without till slips for their cigarettes would be arrested — speaks in similarly belligerent tones. With this overt encouragement of the defence and police ministers, the security forces have been predictably heavy handed in their enforcement of lockdown. 

    Consequently, there have been more than a dozen alleged deaths and close on 500 complaints of security force violence. Yet Ramaphosa has never unambiguously denounced their behaviour. Contrast this silent complicity to the speed with which he publicly supported the #BlackLivesMatter protests, following the death of George Floyd at the hands of a Minneapolis cop.

    One can find examples of Ramaphosa’s timidity in virtually every area of his presidency. In law enforcement, there have been many presidential reassurances but as yet no high-profile arrests or prosecutions. In fact, he continues to tolerate in his inner circle several men and women implicated in state capture and corruption.

    Appeasement, or social compacting as he would describe it, is the presidential watchword. Ramaphosa does not have the appetite for the kind of confrontation with the unions and the SA Communist Party that is necessary to close the national airline, secure alternative power generation, fire the crooks and fools that run most of the state-owned entities, and slash the public service wage bill. 

    Instead, he has let his Finance Minister Tito Mboweni do all the running on these issues, with the president taking a very silent backseat. How long Mboweni will be able to persist in his lonely battle is not clear. The end of the road may be near for him, too.

    It is remarkable, then, how resilient has been media regard for Ramaphosa. It’s been a cosy political honeymoon, with the press doe-eyed before his charm. Even when the failures have become too glaring to gloss over, blame has accrued to his ministers but not him, the man who appointed them.

    With Covid mercilessly highlighting the Ramaphosa administration’s ineptitude, this may, at last, be changing. Despite a lockdown to “buy time” to prepare for pandemic deaths, aside from the opposition-governed Western Cape, the preparations of the provinces have been disastrously poor.

    Ramaphosa’s weaknesses are being mercilessly exposed. The most recent group to give his policies the up-yours — and see him immediately back down — has been the minibus taxi industry on the issues of passenger loading and interprovincial travel. 

    For Daily Maverick’s veteran commentator Ferial Haffajee, the final straw appears to have been the resumption of load shedding. She writes this week: “[It] is like an X-ray revealing the weaknesses of Ramaphosa’s presidency and his inability to deliver on his promises, no matter how well-meaning his intentions … No matter his greatest intentions and personal popularity, Ramaphosa presides over a broken state and patronage circles continue to expand.”

    Business Day columnist Peter Bruce, who patiently endured vitriolic abuse for his support of a tactical vote by opposition voters for Ramaphosa in the past general election, is similarly disenchanted. He writes this week: “Ramaphosa’s ability to deftly finesse even the difficult trade-offs seems to have deserted him during this crisis. His government’s handling of the Covid-19 pandemic has been a lurch from one bumble to the next.” 

    “He may believe he is ‘standing with’ security and health hawks in Cabinet, but he may, in fact, be merely appeasing them, and for the first time I have begun to wonder whether, in fact, he will, in the aftermath of this crisis, be able to hold onto leadership of the party.”

    I think Bruce is probably right. As I’ve written previously in this column, while it may be true Ramaphosa is the only person in the ANC who could save SA, his fear of the almighty internecine battle that such a rescue would entail, means that he won’t. He simply doesn't have the courage or the energy.

    His enemies, the Zuma-ites in his Cabinet and on his national executive committee, circle him with hostile intent. To defeat them, he would probably have to split the ANC.

    But Ramaphosa’s one consistency, amply illustrated during the pandemic, has been his willingness to put party before country. That’s unlikely to change now. 

    Ramaphosa will either go meekly — another early recall — or continue to lead timorously.

    Follow WSM on Twitter @TheJaundicedEye

    FAIR. BUT FEARLESS.

    "Freedom of the press, if it means anything at all, means the freedom to criticize and oppose" - George Orwell

    The independence of this publication is dependent on our supporter base. If you appreciate the work of Politicsweb please too consider becoming a paid up subscriber by clicking here.

    Once signed in you will gain access to the reader-optimised version of the site, our advanced search functionality, and any exclusive content. 

    Jul 20, 2020, 09:56

    I have a slightly different take.

    Admittedly it's clear the ANC are corrupt and have stolen tons. No doubt a good few high up the present tier are also corrupt as hell. Ace is basically an out-in-the-open gangster at this point. 

    However...

    There is a hella ton of work being done and services provided for the people. I'm partially involved in the public works field. As a result, I keep right on top of all the institutional and infrastructural work going on at any given time in SA. 

    In terms of COVID, they are presently building clusters of field hospitals around the country and in the most remote locations too. They're running only O2 to the hospital beds and pushing hard to get the work completed ASAP. 

    The ANC shoot themselves in the foot here. Government should be marketing their achievements a lot more than simply having a website that nobody visits. If they spent a tiny fraction of their budget on letting people know what's actually going on, public confidence would be way up. Confidence in both personal and economic senses.

    Not to be too sentimental but I've visited sites where I had to drive 100kms through the mountains and on a dirt road to a remote cluster of villages. Nobody hears about the new school and clinic recently constructed there. One can't imagine how much it means to the people there.

    I encounter more and more young black professionals that are way ahead of their older counterparts in terms of qualification and ability. No doubt most of them vote ANC. It must be mentioned that the coming wave of young people in the ANC are leaps and bounds ahead of oupa and ouma freedom fighter. 

    The downside is that all this infrastructure is being created on tick and it's future generations that will be left paying the piper. Let's hope they are able to.

    Jul 20, 2020, 12:00

    I do agree with some of your points Plum, very valid indeed

    The main issue for me is this...… with what the ANC have had at their disposal, since they took over, they have been abysmal in the grand scheme of things..... and by that I mean if even 50% of the money that was available over all this time, was used and directed to the correct areas for upliftment..... for the greater good of all South Africans, we would see a significant improvement, even today... by far.

    State hospitals, clinics, are all basically disgusting places to visit, never mind go to, for medical reasons..... Water, Electricity.... nationally all under immense pressure due to little or not enough maintenance....no expertise....

    Last year, the one main metro.... needed over 100 plumbers either in direct employ, or on the books, to service it's massively deteriorating infrastructure.......they officially had 2

    More than 75% of our national municipalities are totally bankrupt.... and what has been done..... zero.

    This next example below, happened just last week, and it made my blood boil, because this whole motorbike issue had made the national and international news for how utterly hilarious and ridiculous it was, that the EC minister of health was going to spend this much money on massively over inflated motorbike transport, in some under handed deal.

    Check what her excuse is in this article...… after she herself had made the decision to approve this purchase, but she then got questioned by this purchase by other political parties before it got ratified..... just look at this longtime utilised excuse.... no surprise

    Minter of Health

    Also, if you are involved in public works, you should be well versed on the national agreement with SMME's...… which basically equates to gangsters determining who gets what portion of what work is being done, at massively inflated pricing, for increased public spending.....for doing absolutely nothing..... nothing at all..

    Then, try and tell them that you are keeping the work in-house, or that it is sub-contracted to some other nearby contractor or supplier which is actually cheaper or has proven skilled labour.... they threaten to kill you and your families..... burn down your premises or residence......or... as is the one case in the Eastern Cape, just assassinate the one SMME leader who posted the money all over Facebook, that he has just been given by a contractor

    Another question...… why do black families have 4-8 kids, knowing full well that they cannot support or sustain themselves..... then they move to a very remote area in the country, set up residence, and then demand running water, electricity, schools.... whilst hardly contributing anything towards the country.  

    Even today, black families are on average 4 or more people to a household..... meaning direct family members.... not relatives...., and no other race does this in South Africa, on the same level of numbers that the blacks do.... not even close.

    Most elderly black folk will tell you why they have, and still do have so many children....and the absolute truth is.... they have a lot of kids, so that they, the adults..... can be looked after in their old age, by their large number of children.... this is a fact.

    I absolutely agree with the schools in the very rural areas not being recognised by the general public, which it should be..... but I would then also ask, why has that been done, yet the more needed resources for schools in built up urban areas, have been left in total ruins......

    These are just some questions or frustrations that I see on a daily basis.

    Jul 20, 2020, 13:54

    Until the ANC acts decisively to stop corruption and bring corrupt officials to justice, they will remain an organized crime institution as far as I am concerned. A few good deeds can't paper over the millions of cracks. Almost no municipality in the country gets a clean audit, they owe Eskom hundreds of millions each, but nothing ever gets done. The same corrupt fucks stay in charge year in and year out. This type of thing makes it hard to fall for the window dressing offered by small achievements.

    Jul 20, 2020, 14:22

    So bloody true Pakie

    Jul 20, 2020, 14:39

    Classic examples below, in the news...  just today

    Black individuals have created another informal settlement, and they have proceeded to steal the electricity from the very same people, who have waited years for their own RDP houses, with electricity.....

    See article here:

    Electricity

    "“Our area is four years old. It has about 600 occupied shacks. All those households share four communal taps and 14 chemical toilets."

    What the hell do they expect?.... these illegal informal settlements pop up every single day around South Africa..... and the government can't even finalise the basic necessities for settlements that have been around for 20 years already, never mind newly created ones now.

    Then this articles:

    Electricity and Water

    A clinic with no proper electricity or water...… for 10 months

    "A staff member, who spoke to us on condition that he not be named, said they have to drive 10km to fetch water in buckets to use at the clinic.

    He also complained that the clinic only had one pit toilet with separate entrances for men and women. Patients and nurses use the same toilet."

    “There has been no electricity at the clinic since last September. In the morning the wards are dark making it very difficult for us to execute duties. We have to make fire outside to make tea,” added another staff member"

    Why is nothing ever done, at all.... to whoever is in charge of these respective areas or organisations?

    As I said, if you want to create some far away isolated community, why moan when you have to walk 10km for water...…. but, at the same time, who in their right mind in the government, would authorise and build a clinic, only to not provide decent, stable electricity and water supply...…  and make the people walk 10km for water...…

    It's seriously fucked up


    Jul 20, 2020, 16:44

    How is this..... for epic inadequacy..... in the news last week

    The pinnacle of corruption and mismanagement of funds.... how much worse must it get , for anyone at all to act......including our president.

    Emfuleni

    33 people are implicated in the missing R870 million, and yet 6 months after these findings were finalised and released by a forensic auditing company, to the municipality and the results made fully available..... not one single person has even been disciplined...... never mind criminally charged.

    This astounds me..... even in these times like now, where we are almost immune to hearing this on a daily basis

    Jul 20, 2020, 16:57

    I agree with both of you. Corruption is allowed to perpetuate and it's frightening to consider how much money has been stolen from citizens. You'll find no argument from me there.

    The problem is that institutional facilities are run by people local to the area. When you find a school with no electricity or hospital with no gas, it's very rarely because the government hasn't sufficiently subsidised the facility. More often than not it's because the person running the place treats the subsidy like it's his/her paycheck. Driving a big black Merc on a dirt road for 30km to the tiny school or clinic they run. I've personally seen that scenario more times than I care to remember.

    Really it's a lack of oversight. And also the fact that people doing the overseeing are on the take since they're in cahoots with school principals and hospital managers.

    I have a family member that runs an innercity school in JHB. When I say inner-city I mean...fucking downtown JHB. And the school runs brilliantly, they always have the money to pay their bills and have a very high pass rate. No special treatment or extra sum is given to them and they get the job done. My guess is that the same is possible for most of the facilities around the country with money that government provides to them.

    All i'm saying is, there are lot of school principals buying Range Rovers and government can only be blamed in part for that.

    Jul 20, 2020, 17:16

    "More often than not it's because the person running the place treats the subsidy like it's his/her paycheck. Driving a big black Merc on a dirt road for 30km to the tiny school or clinic they run. I've personally seen that scenario more times than I care to remember."

    "All i'm saying is, there are lot of school principals buying Range Rovers and government can only be blamed in part for that."

    Totally spot on Plum, hence why I posed this question earlier...

    "Why is nothing ever done, at all.... to whoever is in charge of these respective areas or organisations?"

    This, I do specifically blame the government for..... you cannot just keep issuing public funds out, without ever monitoring or following up on how and what those funds are getting used for and spent on..... that is precisely why the provincial and national ministers are in place, as well as their detailed provincial teams for Health, Education, Security, Tourism, Trade, Transport ….. and hundreds of other local and national portfolios

    Hell, each one of these provincial portfolios have their own COO, Director general....assistants, directors etc etc who then report to their national bodies.... somebody has to be accountable when R870 million goes missing and nothing has been done after 6 months of receiving the outcome of 33 individuals who were involved, to make one example

    They should be following up on where the money is going to, what is getting built, in which areas.... who are the recipients of these financial benefits, grants, subsidies........

    It's a free for all..... literally and figuratively...…..

    Jul 20, 2020, 17:44

    It's rude to ask uncomfortable questions.

    Jul 21, 2020, 07:44

    "It's rude racist to ask uncomfortable questions."

    Fixed

    Jul 21, 2020, 08:30

    DA,

    Try this one on for size. 

    About six years back I meet an early twenties QS that was working for the DBSA. Guy was terrible at his job.

    A year later he rings me up. Says he's just started his own construction company, been nominated on a five project cluster and wants to nominate us to carry out some of the works.

    Total value of the five projects - R1.1 billion.

    I'm on very friendly terms with the consultants that oversaw the work. After six months it became clear the construction company was entirely incompetent. Despite ongoing efforts to have them removed, it took two years for the DBSA to cancel the contracts. 

    And then the kicker...

    When the five projects went back out to tender, guess who got invited to price?

    Yep, the same company that got kicked off site.

    Three of the projects ended up being scrapped and the final two were eventually completed last year by a different company.

    Reading between the lines, it's corruption at the DBSA which drives this type of thing. 

    The funny thing is that even if the guy subcontracted out all the projects in their entirety, he'd still have made no less that R50 million and then been able to do more public work in future.



    Jul 21, 2020, 08:33

    For me, I'm looking at closing out some of our long term contracts by the end of this year and then getting out of SA.

    That is, if the US economy doesn't collapse, which I think is going to happen.

    Word is, the coming collapse will dwarf that of 2007/8.


    Jul 21, 2020, 08:54

    Yeah Plum, that does not surprise me at all

    I have seen municipal tenders go to the company who is R10 - 15 million more expensive

    Nothing gets done about it at all

    I have personally witnessed high ranking officials "requesting" (demanding) loan / courtesy / company vehicles... for their own personal private use, on the pretense that they need it for them to be "able" to travel and monitor the progress of a project....

    These SMME's though, are just something else ...….. created purely to "provide" or generate income to previously disadvantaged communities, yet they know absolutely fuck all about how the job is done, how to price the job / tender..... what skills are necessary, what budget needs to be provided.... what timeframe to work on..... what materials are needed

    They do not care at all about who is doing the work, as long as they get a portion or percentage....

    If they were knowledgeable and skilled, I would say that it is a great initiative, to keep the labour and work amongst the local people... but no ways

    If they don't get any work on a local project, they will threaten, disrupt, attack, vandalise, burn down... anything, and any property.... to get their way..

    Much like the taxi guys always do  

    Jul 21, 2020, 09:05

    Check this one Plum.... in the news yesterday

    Sport and Recreation MEC

    How is this allowed...?

    Who authorises this to happen... under their watch, and why are they both not disciplined?

    She clearly reports to someone at a national level who signed off this expense

    It's a fucking farce.... "not enough sunlight entering the house"

    Jul 21, 2020, 10:55

    All taxpayers should band together and start withholding taxes...fat chance of that happening though. 

    Jul 21, 2020, 11:19

    Correct Draad

    The one sad part about being white.....and it's a fact

    We seldom ever stand together as a majority or as a joint collective force...… against anything that we feel very strongly about

    I would also hope that the black tax payers would stand alongside the whites.... it would be interesting to see


    Jul 21, 2020, 11:43

    Local communities need to protest against corrupt people in their community.

    It baffles me. In most townships in JHB, if a criminal is caught, it's a matter seconds before people with petrol and matches turn up to crisp him.

    ...but if a school principal turns up in a brand new Range Rover while the school has no electricity, nobody cares.

    Jul 21, 2020, 12:34

    "Local communities need to protest against corrupt people in their community"

    Fully agree, the problem is, is that most communities don't even know what has been allocated and provided specifically for them.....

    They don't see how much money was provided and to whom...... so half a school goes up, and they are told... that's all for now folks, but it's a start.... and you can see we are trying our best and getting somewhere.......... we are just waiting for more funding to come through for you...… it's apartheid's fault... don't shoot the messenger people

    Meanwhile the money was moved to the headmaster's sister's daughter's account, to be spent on the entire extended family....

    Some are stupid enough to buy that new Range Rover, and flash it around, but most are just too "cleva" now...… some just can't help it

    Nobody comes from the MEC's office to see the end project.... the built school..... nobody follows up, as is their job... to ensure that the public funds that were allocated to this region, went to the correct area and operation... nobody questions a thing......

    I have seen just as much as you have Plum, if not more....and it sickens me.....but remember.... it's also a huge status symbol to have a BMW parked outside of a 2 - 3 room shack, to illustrate your success.... rather ride in style.....and display your "wealth" to your community..... but live with the occasional floods by living in that same shack..... or fighting for your RDP house for 10 years... looting, rioting… blockading roads.... and then renting that same RDP house out for R7 500 a month as soon as it is handed over to you..... and staying in that same shack that you have been crying about for the last 10 years...….

    Yep.... seen it all

    Jul 21, 2020, 17:19

    LMFAO

    Cheaper to buy from Takealot, and get it delivered

    Masks

    Jul 21, 2020, 20:15

    You must see the PPE the schools issue...I suspect similar BS...

    Jul 22, 2020, 07:48

    "You must see the PPE the schools issue...I suspect similar BS..."

    Nothing unusual.... the ANC making profit off the misery of others again....

    Much like the food parcels and the "door to door survey"

    It has become hilarious, because now every little issue is making the news for a change 

    Jul 22, 2020, 09:17

    Look, I'm glad I finally quit smoking about 2 and a half years ago...but the ban on tobacco products instantly made criminals of about 11 million South Africans...and the alcohol ban added a few million more I suspect. Look, I get that these products create more than just a few social and health problems, but it also gives a livelihood for thousands (if not millions) of South Africans, taken away by a one-sided decision by an uncaring wasteful government....not to mention the massive tax contributions by these sectors...stupidest...nonsensical reasoning ever.

    The time has come for all South Africans to start seriously protesting these draconian imbeciles  running the country. The cANCerous  vermin should all be kicked out. Their reign needs to stop ASAP. I see they want pension funds to bail out SAA again. They won't stop before they've destroyed everything. Enough is enough!

    Jul 22, 2020, 09:36

    So its once again illegal to consume booze & tobacco ? Dagga must now be the Republic's no.1 recreational drug, of hoe?

    Jul 22, 2020, 09:59

    "I'm glad I finally quit smoking about 2 and a half years ago"

    Well done, I am now 2 years exactly

    The "cANCerous  vermin" cannot be stopped if the very same stupid people vote them in all the time.... it really doesn't matter how many protests there are, but yes, I completely agree with you..... but I just think that the concern and hatred of what apartheid brought, of which a lot of it is justified, this prevents people from voting the correct people in

    Jul 22, 2020, 10:06

    Netso. I can get by without it. I have enough wine and beer to last a while and when it's finished...no skin off my back...but the poor people dependent on income from the industry is heartbreaking. 

    Imagine your way of making a living  is suddenly deemed undesirable and suspended indefinitely...four months already....without any help from the government...even the aid is being looted by the scum.

    I am very angry at what's going on ATM. I see a real revolution coming...one I will suppose the best I can.

    Jul 22, 2020, 10:15

    "The "cANCerous  vermin" cannot be stopped if the very same stupid people vote them in all the time...."

    Unfortunately so, but we should somehow start "defending" ourselves by withholding taxes or something. They are destroying everything and even the opposition is playing at petty politics and electioneering rather than presenting workable alternatives and resistance. There is increasing talk of Western-Cape-Exit, but they will never get close to getting the votes....and even if, then what?

    Jul 22, 2020, 11:34

    One gets the feeling that the whole process of transformation is predominantly about economic balancing. IE whites cede wealth.

    The problem for most average people being that the process has and will take too long. Land changing hands takes time. Whites apparently own most of the land in SA. 

    Assuming that is the case, how does this sound?

    A land exchange rate is negotiated on the basis of whites ceding much of their land but being allowed to get their own share of land together and in an area of their choosing. 

    SA = 1,220,000 Km2 

    Whites own = 878,400Km2

    White population in SA = 9%

    The Indian population, who are also settlers = 2.5%

    Other 0.5%

    Total =12%

    12% of SA's = 146 400Km2

    This would be prior to negotiating a higher percentage as a result of the amount of land being handed over from whites to blacks.

    Negotiating up...

    +5% = 207Km2

    + 10% = 268,400Km2

    NOTE; The mixed-race population are excluded on the basis of being part naturally African. However, they're also European and should be allowed to decide on which side they fall. 

    Adding in the mixed race community 268,400Km2 + 8.0%...

    292,872Km2 which is just under 1/4 of SA's landmass.


    For reference, here are the sizes population and population densities of some countries.

    France 551,695Km2 Pop 65M Population Density - 118km2

    Germany 357,168Km2 Pop 82M Population Density - 232km2

    Spain 505,990Km2 Pop 65M Population Density - 92km2


    The proposition above puts SA at...

    292,287Km2 Pop 12M Population Density 41Km2

    Even if the ANC don't agree to such an arrangement, it may be an appealing prospect for another party to run on. 

    The draw being that land will be in people's hands sooner rather than later.

    Yes, I'm well aware that this is likely apartheid 2.0.

    And yes, I understand the perils of separatist movements.

    What one can't ignore is that it is a solution of sorts for the present economic imbalance that SA faces. One that goes directly to a theme Ramaphosa raised at the outset of his presidency. That of the original sin and economic transformation.









    Jul 22, 2020, 11:48

     "I see a real revolution coming"

    Same, and I thoroughly welcome it

    Jul 28, 2020, 11:02

    For the incredibly stupid people like Beeno, please take the time to read this short article on what Covid-19 did to this family recently, in Natal

    Don't ever try and convince me that this is just the flu, and that it is nothing at all to be concerned about, as our resident infectious disease specialist would lead us to believe

    This is very real.... its a reality.... and it's in our own back yard.

    Tragic


    Jul 28, 2020, 14:29

    It seems Beeno has disappeared from this thread. The same clown that said COVID was fake news...


    Jul 28, 2020, 16:06

    "It seems Beeno has disappeared from this thread. The same clown that said COVID was fake news..."

    Yeah Sharkie, I noticed this a while ago, when he said that I was too lazy to get my facts straight on this particular topic....

    It is astoundingly clear now regarding who actually got their faculties fucked up...…

    Calling him a clown is being extremely polite..

     

     
    You need to Log in to reply.
    Back to top