Explainer-Biden vs. Trump: What is the difference between the two classified records cases?

Forum » Beenos Trumpet » Explainer-Biden vs. Trump: What is the difference between the two classified records cases?

Jan 13, 2023, 13:12

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland has appointed two different special counsels to independently investigate the handling of classified records by Republican former President Donald Trump and his Democratic successor, President Joe Biden.

Jack Smith, a war crimes prosecutor, is investigating whether Trump or his associates improperly retained classified records at his Florida estate after he left office in 2021 and then tried to obstruct a federal investigation. Garland tapped Trump-era former U.S. Attorney Robert Hur for Maryland to investigate the removal and retention of classified records from Biden's time as vice president, and the discovery of them at his home and one-time office at a think tank.

WHAT ARE THE SIMILARITIES BETWEEN THE TWO CASES?

Neither Trump nor Biden should have had any classified material in their possession. During a presidential transition period, the records from each administration are supposed to be turned over to the legal custody of the U.S. National Archives.

It is unlawful to knowingly or willfully remove or retain classified material. Failure to properly store and secure classified material poses risks to national security if it should fall into the wrong hands.

Biden has said he was surprised to learn he had classified information in his possession. Trump has said on social media, without providing evidence, that he declassified the records, though his attorneys have declined to repeat that assertion in court filings.

The materials in question date back to when Biden was President Barack Obama's vice president from 2009 to 2017, and when Trump was president from 2017 to 2021.

HOW DO THE TWO CASES DIFFER?

In Trump's case, the National Archives tried for more than a year after Trump left office to retrieve all of the records he retained, without success. When Trump finally returned 15 boxes of documents in January 2022, Archives officials discovered they contained classified materials.

The matter was referred to the Justice Department, which issued a grand jury subpoena last May seeking the return of all classified records. Investigators then visited Trump's home, where his attorneys handed over more material and asserted there were no more documents on the premises.

That turned out to be false. Additional evidence collected by the FBI, including surveillance footage from the Mar-a-Lago estate, prompted agents to seek court approval to execute a search warrant on Aug. 8 amid concerns over possible obstruction.

The FBI recovered an additional 13,000 documents, about 100 of which were marked as classified.

In Biden's case, Garland said the president's attorneys informed the Archives and the Justice Department in November that they had discovered fewer than a dozen classified files inside a closet at the Penn Biden Center think tank in Washington D.C. earlier that month.

After the discovery, the attorneys continued to conduct additional searches at Biden's homes in Wilmington and Rehoboth Beach, Delaware, where more documents were found in both December and this month. All were turned over to the authorities.

WHAT LEGAL PERIL DO BIDEN AND TRUMP FACE?

It is a crime only if the retention and removal of classified records is intentional.

Prosecutors typically won't pursue charges for the accidental retention of classified records, but if there is evidence of possible obstruction of justice, that could change things.

For that reason, legal experts say, Trump faces considerably more legal peril than Biden.

To date, there has been no suggestion by the Justice Department that Biden knowingly retained the records or refused to return them to the government.

Also, as president, Biden is unlikely to face prosecution. The Justice Department has not changed its long-standing policy that a sitting president cannot be indicted.

The same policy helped insulate Trump when he was president and under investigation by then-Special Counsel Robert Mueller. In that case, Mueller declined to determine whether Trump had obstructed his investigation into possible ties between Russia and Trump's 2016 election campaign because of the department's policy.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is enough evidence to suggest obstruction of justice by the obese thug.

Lock him up, now!

Jan 13, 2023, 13:23

Just wait for the "this are all BS propergander waht only idoits like you swallow from the fake press".

Lock the fat pig up and throw away the key.

Jan 13, 2023, 13:27

At least Biden can claim dementia according to dumb Mike but I somehow they won't accept it even though they have been claiming it for years.

Lock both up and burn the whole rotten disease infested system to the ground and start again.

Unfortunately America is at a point that it may never recover.

Future looks dark for what was once a powerful nation that led the world in democracy and standard of living.

Wonder what decade Canada builds a wall to keep the Americans out?

Also Mexico will probably end up paying for their wall to stop the Americans escaping over the border into Mexico.

Jan 13, 2023, 16:17

All the red faced Dem anger and it turns out their man did the same thing, but he was too far gone to even know it. Hilarious!

Jan 13, 2023, 17:27

I agree with the comments of CF - the whole system of Government in the USA has reached an unbelievably high level of corruption not befitting a Democracy and the system should be burned down totally.    The rot set in in 1992 and got progressively worse every President since Clinton was elected.    Bush used a lie on "weapons of Mass Destruction" to start a War that enriched some of his cronies and people like the Cheyne's massively.   Obama followed up spending money endlessly and progressively enriched himself massively.   He declared hia assets as $100 000 when he became Senator - four years later he declared his assets as $3,5 million when he became  President.  On leaving the WH before he got any money from book sales or anything else - he went on a buying spree buying luxury homes in Hawai, California, Washington and Martha's Vineyard spending more than $30 million.

Trump had his fulltime enemies - but he did not make any money while he was President - he never took his salary and donated it to charities.   There is no evidence at all that he got money illegally while President.   If anybody can prove wrongdoing on his part - I will look at the evidence and change my comments.   

Everything Biden touched was corrupt.   It started when he was a Senator and made a fortune when he was VP.  He should be in jail and not the President of the USA.              

That would I hope include every dishonest politician - which would entail the whole Demcoratic Party leadership and half of the Republican Party leaders.   They should be charged with bribery, corruption and insider trading.   

With it must go dishonest media spreading lies and not news.    The system has gone so rotten that some media outlets are actually propaganda channels.   To save Democracy from the claws of the media owners will be a major problem.     Cleaning up a snake pit - which si also called the Washington swamp will be hard to do.   The Washington Bureaucrats are as corrupt as the politicians are.               

   

Jan 13, 2023, 17:41

Denny

The story of the Mueller Special Council is misleading.   Mueller found no evidence of collusion between Trump and Putin and he had nothing to use against Trump.   If he did the Democrats would have tried to impeach him - but he found nothing because there was nothing.   The whole story was based on lies concocted by the Democrats and spread by the Obama Administration and the media.    Fact is Trump provided millions of documents to Mueller on his request.   So all the BS continued - the only ties between Putin and Clinton and her campaign was in fact proven by herself - when in an e-mail to her crooked campaign manager - she wrote that "she has direct access to Putin's inner sanctum".         

Jan 13, 2023, 18:07

Don't fool yourself Mike, Trump is just as rotten as the rest of them, I know you love him but he is as much a rotten apple as the rest of them.

American politics is solely designed to feather the pockets of the few and fuck the rest.

I am unsure why you support him while condemning the rest, even if he is a lesser evil he has no more compassion or thought for the average American than any of the other rotten pricks.

Governments are suppose to be there for the people not to make the elite even richer

Jan 13, 2023, 19:47

Just to be clear so that you guys understand the blatant bias and corruption that takes place in POLITICS.

Both individuals have been found to have "classified documents".

In President Trump's case he has the legal right as President to have them plus  as a President he had the authority to declassify all and any documents.

Plus all the documents were kept in a locked office in a secure building patrolled by the secret service in one location plus a log book was also at this location to log comings and goings of staff/people who entered the room.

After protracted talks and reaching a mutual agreement to add an additional lock to the room or cabinet in which these unclassified documents were kept it was deemed to be secure.

Within days the AG and armed FBI found it necessary to raid the house of the ex President with TV cameras and news media being informed of the raid prior to the raid taking place.

The FBI even found it necessary to search the private draw of the ex- President's wife in their  accomodation at his hotel in Florida.

Then much was made by the TV media of documents lying on the floor of the secure room which housed these unclassified documents in an attempt to or suggest that this was the way the documents were being kept.

Next.

Blundering Biden firstly went out of his way prior to the recent elections (mid September 2022) to appear on TV and slam President Trump as being irresponsible and reckless in his handling of these declassified documents.

Then on the 4th November 2022 the Biden administration AG was informed that classified documents had been discovered in an office reserved by President Biden from 2018 up to the present in Washington DC /Baltimore district.

Then on the 6th November the midterm elections were held.

On around the 12th November a second report to the Biden AG stated that a second set of classified documents had surfaced in Biden's office at his home in New Hampshire.

On the 16th or 18th November the Biden administrations Attorney General held a TV/news conference to announce that he has appointed a Special Counsel to investigate President Trump's handling of the so called classified material.

The AG never once mentioned that Biden had been found to have unsecured classified documents  at the time of announcing the President Trump's investigation even though it had been reported to him way back on November 4th, 2022.

Around the 7th January 2023 the news broke about the Biden issue with regards classified documentation.

Two months after the midterm elections and two months of slow walking and deliberately suppressing the news about Biden and the reported classified documents were first made known to his AG.

The media were all reporting that the first set of documents found had been misplaced by someone and only on the 10th January 2023 did the news break about a second classified document found in his office at his home in New Hampshire.

Low and behold late on the 12th January 2023 yet another set of classified documents (3rd) were reported to have been found in his garage at his home in NH.

When interviewed at a press conference shortly after the third discovery Biden suggested that the documents were secure as they were actually in his locked garage with his car.

At this stage his AG had no room to move and hurriedly appointed yet another SC to investigate the Biden handling of these unsecured classified documents that have been in Bidens hands since he left office in January 2016.

It has also been established that the first set of classified documents found by his furniture moving lawyers had been moved from somewhere to this building during 2018 when Biden took occupation of the office and after he left the Obama WH in January 2017.

The bottom line is that Biden has no legal right to have these classified documents firstly which date back to the Obama/Biden administration and are dated 2013/4 and secondly he did not have the authority to declassify any documents.

But no show at the WH or at his residence in NH by the armed FBI or the media mass.....wonder why.

Now go ahead and tell me it is not a case of trying to cover up the issue plus the slow walking by the AG and all concerned was a case of them hoping that this issue would not surface.

Fortunately the truth will always prevail.

Enjoy the ride guys.

LET JUSTICE AND THE TRUTH BE HEARD AND DONE.

 


Jan 13, 2023, 20:37

CF

I do not love any politician - I said a while ago that I support De Santis as Republican Candidate for President and not Trump.

What I do hate is corruption in Government and lies spread by politicians and the media.   There is no evidence at all to indicate that Trump benefitted from kickbacks or any form of backhanders - I would love it if you could provide evidence of anything like that involving Trump.   If you can and it proves to be true and not from newspaper reports I would gladly agree with you.   Fact is Trump has been investigated  iro of everything he did as President and so far no charges were laid against him and even though FBI and CIA tried their best he is unlikely to be charged of anything.    

There are things concerning Trump I do not like and he is in my opinion no politician - but a brash New York businessman.   He is not a person with a sound ethical record - but he was hated by the Washington establishment. and the media.   He was a thread to the corrupt politicians and bureaucrats in that city.

Just a question - how did some of the classified documents ended up in the Hunter Biden Laptop?    This problem is going to be investigated by the House and they have questions to ask about Hunter complaining about paying the "Big Man|" half of his profits.  There are increasing evidence that the Ukraine war is an excuse by the Biden Administration to steal aid funds in collaboration with their corrupt partners in Ukraine.     Why did Ukraine invest money in FTX from where the taxpayer-funded aid money went to Democratic Party and some Democrat and Republican politicians (like Romney).

However, I agree with you - there is a major need for a clean-up in the political situation in the USA - but that clean-up would require drastic action by the judiciary - the Democrats will never have anything leading to them being investigated.   The FBI is part of their protection racket.               


Jan 13, 2023, 21:48

Just a question  what is there in it for the fbi to cover up any democratic  illegalitys?

You seem to have a belief that everyone is corrupt.

I struggle to see why so many would be willing to put money/promotion/job security ahead of their country. 

Unlike you I believe that most people  would do the right thing for their country (apart from politicians) no mater what the consequences. 

Maybe I am the fool for believing as such, if so then there is no hope for mankind


Jan 14, 2023, 13:00

C F

How do you cut out or drastically reduced corruption and insider-trading are if the House and Senate have term limits.   Career Politicians being more than 12 years  as career politicians should be sent packing.   An example there are two top leaders of the House involved up to their necks in corruption as proven by documentation  .- namely Pelosi (35 years)  and Schiff (22 years).    That type of thing should be avoided at all costs.    Career-politicians are routinely corrupt.

Unfortunately the FBI got caught in conniving with Twitter to cover up for Biden iro of the Hunter Biden Laptop.    That was confirmed by documents.    The FBI has been involved in for instance the abduction project by domestic terrorists of the Governor of Michigan - and as they were the instigators the court threw out the case.   The FBI started going rogue about political  issues this century and there can books be written about their conduct.      I foresee some real action to clear up the FBI.    Like career politicians there are career bureaucrats feeling threatened and that is largely why they cannot be trusted to work different from the Gestapo and KGB did in the 20th century,    Take a recent example -  Wray was called to a Committee of the Senate.   Each of the 11 members were given 7 minutes to ask questions - after which they were each given 3 minutes for follow-up questions.  After the 7 minute question time was completed - Wray said he has urgent business to attend to and the Senate Committee said fine.   What was his urgent business?     It was to take his family on holiday using the Gulfstream jet bought for the FBI for anti-terrorism operations.   That shows dishonesty and that is what the FBI became.                    


         

Jan 14, 2023, 19:56

Crusaderfan,

Agree that many folks are decent, proud, law abiding and loyal to their country but the sad part is that not many of those people with principles enter politics.

Just look at what state most countries are in due to corrupt, criminal politicians of all persuasions.

No morals only self enrichment.

Just wait and watch what is about to explode when the whistleblowers from the FBI testify under oath to congress.

We are all going to be shocked.......


Jan 15, 2023, 02:43

AJH

Whenever Wray was questioned about dubious processes is - he did not know, he cannot comment on ongoing investigations (especially when for at least three years no progress was made on investigations other than effort to bury issues like happened in the Hunter Biden laptop issue).

Most of the answers he did provide was to try and bury the question through diversion and nonsensical BS.    Recently they claim that their liaison with Twitter never happened even though Zuckerman admitted it happened in the case of his platform.      They claim the Republicans are undermining their fighting of crime.

Insofar as the usage of the Gulfstream jet Wray claimed the costs of transport of him and his family was covered by him.    How much was the actual costs of the plane operation was and how much Wray actually paid would be interesting.   Anyway - who approved that in his private capacity is the only way Wray is allowed to travel.    If ever there was total BS - that must rate highly near to the top of Mountain Bullshit.    

Anyway -  the rule that the House can refuse to allocate funding in the case of remuneration and costs of individual bureaucrats and even Cabinet members who lied and abused law enforcement will now again be in force after it was scrapped by the Democrats under Pelosi.   Wray and the FBI management will be high on the list of those elements whose remuneration will be removed from the Budgetary proposals.    The real question is why should the Democratic Party not pay the salaries of their servants in the FBI?   That seems to be a fair question.

              

          

Jan 16, 2023, 10:28

It seems the news about all of these classified documents that Biden has left at various place is going to possibly bury him....


The American public are also now calling for far more transparency on what the hell is going on, because there have been too many delays on the announcing of what has already been found...

Sure is interesting times ahead..... 

I see Hunter Biden has now also approached a court to have the surname of his "love child" changed because he does not want the child to grow up with a "sullied" surname....

Eish.... you must know how bad you think it is going for you and your family.... if you are already trying this shit......

Jan 16, 2023, 20:22

DA

Is the surname BIDEN now a  "sullied surname"?   One would think that the Biden crime family has already done that.   

Jan 16, 2023, 20:59

There was no difference between Biden and Trump, except Biden was able to hide the documents for longer. Both of them should be locked up for the same reason.

When you leave office, it is like leaving a job, you no longer work for that organisation so why have classified documents belonging to the organisation? Once someone leaves office they have no more rights than any other voter to confidential data or what is deemed confidential data. 
Given the extent of documents, and being found in different addresses proves that there was clear intent to steal classified records. 

Hunter Biden may have accessed those documents, and as a drug addict could have been a total liability is selling classified records to the highest bidder 

Jan 17, 2023, 01:38

Do you folks recall that Hunter Biden sold his artworks for $500 K each.

Well would we all be surprised if the artwork (if you can call it that) was bought by Chinese officials and each piece of artwork came with a full set of Biden classified files.

But seriously Hunter must have seen some of or all of those documents and knowing how the Biden Cartel operate nothing is off the table.

Either they made money with these documents or as I stated on another blog Old Joe is holding these documents as protection in case the Obama gang turn on him.

Don't forget Obama himself said that if you what to "F... something up", just give it to old JOE.

Nothing is off the table with these high rollers.

Jan 17, 2023, 03:11

SB

A fact is that Trump in fact declassified  the documents all the documents he took with him to Dar-Al-Lama.   So Trump had NO classified documents in his possession.   The real suspicion exist what the documents dealt with - it could be relating to personal issues such as evidence about the Russian Hoax issue that the FBI would love to destroy or it could have been prove of corruption on Biden's and other Democratic part that needs protection.

On the other hand it definitely was a propaganda effort to undermine the Republicans in the mid-term election.   It was a plan concocted by the Democrat propaganda arm to influence the mid-term election.    I think the problem is that the Democrats want to get rid of Biden and they will use the saga of the classified documents for the said purpose.  From a political perspective there is no limit to criminality the Democrats are involved in.

          

Jan 17, 2023, 03:11

SB

A fact is that Trump in fact declassified  the documents all the documents he took with him to Dar-Al-Lama.   So Trump had NO classified documents in his possession.   The real suspicion exist what the documents dealt with - it could be relating to personal issues such as evidence about the Russian Hoax issue that the FBI would love to destroy or it could have been prove of corruption on Biden's and other Democratic part that needs protection.

On the other hand it definitely was a propaganda effort to undermine the Republicans in the mid-term election.   It was a plan concocted by the Democrat propaganda arm to influence the mid-term election.    I think the problem is that the Democrats want to get rid of Biden and they will use the saga of the classified documents for the said purpose.  From a political perspective there is no limit to criminality the Democrats are involved in.

          

Jan 17, 2023, 03:37

DumbMike, no one other than Trump has said he declassified hundreds of documents before being thrown out of the Whitehouse, and no one believes his lie, except the Trumpanzee.

Even still - the Information office subpoenaed the documents (a legal order to the police). The current government has the discretion with classifying or reclassifying documents. Trump was asked to hand them back and he did not want to. That is obstruction of Justice.

He denied a court order and a warrant was issued to search the premises.
The same would have happened to Biden had he denied access to documents.

Biden's house would be raided, if it is suspected he has not handed back.

The Trumpazee species delighted at the notion of Trump declassifying documents telepathically. That is how powerful its master is. :P



Jan 17, 2023, 06:57

Obviously you did not see a de-classification document signed by Trump - it covered all documents in designated per Box in which it was packed.   The fake propaganda media you believe in did not have the document or refused to publish it - so the nobody you refer to are the  prople who believe all the drivel in the propaganda channels. 

Second paragraph is a lie as well.   There were many months of Negotiation between Trump and National Archives and when the latter ask for some documents to be returned they were returned to National Archives.    The FBI raid was a typical Democratic Party propaganda story.   Normally when a raid like the one the FBI undertook is made on any property - the affected person and his legal representatives are allowed to view the process.   The FBI knew Trump and his family was not at home and when a staff member informed Trump's lawyer she rushed there she was banned from watching what the FBI did - the FBI even turned off the security cameras and even went so far as to display fake photo's of  certified documents on a carpet.

BS - there were only negotiations between National Archive  and Trump - there was no court order Trump disobeyed.   

    

         

  

Jan 17, 2023, 07:56

The American public are losing patience with what is happening with Biden....

The Russia collusion story, Hunter's laptop, senior Biden getting involved with Hunter business dealings..... Hunter's drug use and porn images and videos....now these classified documents in various locations being found.... what a fucking farce.....if this was anyone else, the hole judicial system would be involved here....

They have caught on to a lot of what has happened over the last few years, and it really does look like they have taken enough bullshit ....

As I said, interesting times ahead....

Jan 19, 2023, 17:58

Sharkie lay off the Vigra the "Hard-On" you get from mentioning President Trump should last you a day or two.

So until then take yourself in hand and wait a few days before coming back on the forum.

Jerky Turkey.

 
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