Georgia Senate Runoff Race

Forum » Beenos Trumpet » Georgia Senate Runoff Race

Jan 06, 2021, 02:20

https://www.foxnews.com/georgia


https://www.foxnews.com/georgia


Jan 06, 2021, 05:53

ouSeb can I have the CNN link pse?

Jan 06, 2021, 07:31

I'm really not interested in any media view points...they are all tainted with dishonest peoples bias.

It's the results that interest me.

I'm a republican at heart but I don't like Trump but would vote for him if I lived in USA simply because I believe the"new" democrats are evil people and strongly lean to socialism which is an abomination in the world and yes it doesn't work. Trump I don't like because he's crude and has no manners and treats his lovely wife badly.

But this issue won't change the election (maybe I'm wrong because I do not follow the political side all that well) but it would reveal if there was election fraud and interference.

I don't understand how people can enjoy any victory whether it's sport or election victory if it's contaminated. I'm just not made that way. To me it's very disturbing the way the new world regards principles and integrity. 

It is a travesty that is happening in SA...there is no law and order... and corruption, theft and looting is totally out of control with the weak government who cannot bring serious criminals to justice.

USA is even more important but crooks abound there with such power and influence.

Denny says no more years, but I say a lot more tears as we face a very gloomy future worldwide.

Lets wait and see, and you are damn right nobody wants this to happen but the words of the prophets is clearly written on the walls closer to home.


Jan 06, 2021, 15:38

Seb there is a difference between full on socialism the of which likes of which you have in China and Cuba and socialism you have in democratic societies.

In Europe many countries have free health care and free high levels of education and these policies have popular support among the people. At the same time these countries support free elections, free press, free speech, the right to open property, freedom of movement etc. They don't suppress their people, their not police states or dictatorships, they don't have concentration camps or gulags.

In America to the political right Socialism is evil, but I doubt many of them even know what socialism is. They just think Nazi's or Communists.

As I said before the democarts aren't even that left wing. They would considered centre or centre right over here. In many respects the democrats just want America to catch up to what the rest of the first world takes for granted.




Jan 06, 2021, 17:44

So the rest of the world supports.....a salary check for everybody....property taxes that are10 times as high as you would pay in England....voting without identification....unlimited mail in voting....defunding the police....looting in a good cause....wealth taxes....late term abortions?

Jan 06, 2021, 18:50

As if you're accurately representing the democrats position on several of those issues.


Jan 07, 2021, 06:41

Please let me use the KISS method...keep it simple stupid!


Socialism = Looting and theft at all levels

Socialism = weak and soft crime control and leniency on major crimes and harshness on petty crime and,white collar issues.

Socialism = Sympathy for the guilty individual of serious  crime and the plight of the victim is sadly overlooked. 

Socialism = Collective thinking

Socialism = Death of initiative and control by red tape

Socialism = Call centres instead of individual services

Socialism = Heads of companies sit in ivory towers, do nothing, are inapproachable and earn safe income far beyond their productive worth and too many useless, non-productive politicians that are looters.

I could go on and on ...it's sickening and terribly evil.

No thanks.

Jan 07, 2021, 09:02

Collectivism vs Individualism.

Chaos vs Order.

If you smother the individual, you suffocate society as a whole...History is an open book.

Jan 07, 2021, 09:43

Perhaps Stav should visit SA and see how "well" socialist policies are doing here. 

Better still, take a trip to some other African countries that were NEVER colonised and tell us what socialist policies would best get them fed. Oh, that's right...socialism never brought anyone out of poverty. Only capitalism has. But, of course, as nations rest on the laurels of successful capitalist policies, greedy and power hungry politicians slide in, using the unfortunates and social incentive to garner support for ideas that never brought success in the first place. 

Give us more money to take care of you. 

Fuck that. Socialism means deeper reliance on government. It means more money to government and it results in government having more say over your life. 

Perhaps you want to be ruled...I don't. I'll pay for private medical insurance, my own education and take care of my relatives. 

Unless, of course, I'm like one of the millions of lazy assholes in the UK that claim benefit while being completely healthy. Thereby shrinking the pot and meaning elderly and sickly people get less. Will government complain...? Never. Why not? Because a bigger social wealth bill means they can collect more from the hard-working. 

Don't give me this kak about how it works in SOME places. It doesn't work anywhere. The UK benefit system suffers the exact same issues as those economic problems face in outright communist countries...the difference being that socialism in Europe is washed over because they have capitalist systems propping it up. 

Government must be diminished. It should be as small and as transparent as possible. It's aim should never be to increase its scope in the face of feasible alternatives.

When it does attempt to do grow itself, only fools aren't suspicious.




Jan 07, 2021, 15:03

"Socialism means deeper reliance on government. It means more money to government and it results in government having more say over your life". 

Very true... "Big Brother" wants total control over you...compulsory Census and all your private details...even shifts the responsibility to control and report "suspicious behaviour and financial peculiarities if you are a lawyer, financial service provider, accountant, estate agent. stock broker and a host of other professions dealing in money. This should be the work of police services who are too damn lazy and incompetent  to do their job that tax payers pay for. Non-compliance of FICA has huge penalties and ironically money-laundering and organised crime has escalated in SA  and  has increased in leaps and bounds.

They scream about individual rights all the time but it is they who have stolen our identities. Bloody hypocrites. 

They strain at gnats and swallow camels .No sense at all of priorities.

The thinking man is isolated in these societies. They are not only interested in stealing our money but our identities too.

Despicable evil bastards...you cannot go lower than this.

Actually puts the Soviet Union to shame...ask Elena.


Jan 07, 2021, 15:15

Socialism = call centers...what the actual f***?

Odd I never get I.T support calls from Cuba and China.

Reading the posts here, right wing indoctrination seems just as strong in SA as it is in America.

Tell me Plum, Ireland has universal health care (its actually a hybrid system with private health care available as well) in what way does the government here rule over me?

What happens if you can't afford to pay for you health insurance or your relatives health care. What happens if through no fault of your own, you lose your job due to say automation, or like what happens in America, you have a job but you got wiped out financially due to a divorce and your living in your car almost broke. What happens if you have a job and simply can't afford health care.

Have you ever seen the videos online where British people and American people visiting the UK are asked about the health care costs. The British people are shocked by the cost of America health care (seriously why are mothers charge $40 to hold their newborn baby after birth, what absolute batshittines is that) the American's are shocked too but are likey "yeah but UK health care must be shit if its so cheap". To which its pointed out that the UK health system out preforms the US health care system. I believe the WHO reviewed 11 first world health care systems and of the 11 health care system America's came last.

"Unless, of course, I'm like one of the millions of lazy assholes in the UK that claim benefit while being completely healthy. Thereby shrinking the pot and meaning elderly and sickly people get less. Will government complain...? Never. Why not? Because a bigger social wealth bill means they can collect more from the hard-working. 

Don't give me this kak about how it works in SOME places. It doesn't work anywhere. The UK benefit system suffers the exact same issues as those economic problems face in outright communist countries...the difference being that socialism in Europe is washed over because they have capitalist systems propping it up. "

This is just unmitigated rubbish as well. its complete nonsense to say their is millions of people are scamming social welfare in the UK. Go do some fact checking on this and don't just parrot the right wing propaganda because its suits your political views. Do people scam the system in the UK yes absolutely, buts its tiny minority of social welfare recipients, yes the scammers cost millions, and they should be tracked down and prosecuted for doing so, but even allowing for this the benefits of the system outweigh the cost.





Jan 07, 2021, 15:35

Reward the productive so that your government can boost the economy to pay services for the deserving unfortunate...yes it's our job to give a lift up to those in need.

Socialism puts the cart before the horse.

People only become productive if there is a strong sense of individual worth and yes it is not only money. But Andy Capps on the dole don't deserve support...what a man sows so shall he reap.

I will gladly help those who are trying their best but weak irresponsible people absolutely no.

Teach a man to fish and not give him a fish is how it works. Give people self-respect does far more value for society as a whole.

Life is not laziness and ease...that's a delusion...the happiest people are those that produce with honesty and integrity and give their best.

You get the makers and the takers always, that's unfortunatelly a reality but socialism encourages the takers and ruins it for all. We all pay for that up to a point but it results in bankrupt countries that continually have to borrow from wealthy countries at high rates. The cycle can be never ending = Zimbabwe (once as Rhodesia, the" bread basket" of Africa).

Jan 07, 2021, 16:03

Sebastien what you said in that last post is mostly fine. People who support social policies like universal health care and free higher level education are in all favor of rewarding the productive, they don't support dole scroungers, they also don't support everything being socialist. They want to work and earn money.

Its simply propaganda to imply that few elements of policies of socialism in society will automatically lead to full socialism in society.

The dole is there to support people in between jobs, that's what the vast majority of people use it for. You can loose a job for reasons completely beyond your control. Most people do not want to be on the dole but they need to survive until a job comes up. Absolutely there is lazy scroungers and fraudster but they are not a small minority.

For many universal health care should be a basic human right, no one should be turned away for medical treatment because they can't pay or be burdened with crippling debt because of seeking medical treatment or feel unable to seek medical treatment and risk their lives because they fear getting in debt.  Sure its expensive but its worth it, its just basic human decency.

As for high level education, the people who get higher level education for free go on to higher paying jobs, which means they pay more taxes that more than make up for the lost admission fees in the long run. Its a win win scenario for both the individual and society.

Jan 08, 2021, 08:33

Easy Star

No universal healthcare. People that are working pay for their health insurance.

Those that cannot afford to must apply for government assistance. That assistance is given only if the person has a legitimate reason for not being able to have insurance. If you're a fit and healthy person but can't pay your medical insurance because you refuse to take a shitty job...bottom line - Piss off and die on the pavement because society doesn't owe you anything. Be unable to pay for legitimate reasons and you'll get better service because 30 year-old Lazy Lee is taking up a space in the queue. 

Shrink the pot to its smallest vs universal healthcare.

Exactly as I said, the unfortunates are used as a means to force the entire country to opt into a system that 95% of people don't need and which would be better served by a competitive insurance market.

Also...if I recall correctly, you can have private health insurance but you'll still be paying your share towards the NHS? I could be wrong here but that's what I remember.

Benefit scammers not a reality? Unlike you, I lived in three different UK cities. In each of those places I knew people that were working, healthy, educated etc...all claiming benefit and housing when they had the potential to earn as much or more than I was but they were lazy, dishonest and  unable to avoid the socialist carrot  that was perpetually dangled in front of them.

Anyway, be honest in your argument. Don't use people that actually need help to cover for a system that is bloated way beyond what it needs to be. 

Rather address the point...that being how government wants to inflate social welfare systems because it means they get more money and more say over your life.

Jan 08, 2021, 12:13

"Exactly as I said, the unfortunates are used as a means to force the entire country to opt into a system that 95% of people don't need and which would be better served by a competitive insurance market."

The vast majority of people will at some point of their life need to use it, particularly as people get older. Research and studies shows countries with universal health care systems have better health care outcomes than countries that don't have it.

I never said benefit scammers don't exist. But the scale of the issue is always greatly exaggerated. Just because you know some people who claim benefits which they may be perfectly entitled to of the system doesn't make them lazy or dishonest, after all your saying these people are working. The UK has a population of 60 million, your personal experience does not necessarily apply to the rest of the UK.

So like wise be honest in your argument, don't use a tiny minority of people who abuse a system when the benefits of the system have been shown to massively outweigh the abuse.

You didn't answer how my government here in Ireland has more control over me because we have a universal health care system.

Is it something like the South Park underpants gnomes.

Phase 1 = Steal underwear

Phase 2 = ????????

Phase 3 = Profit

Only in this case its

Phase 1 = Universal Health Care

Phase 2 = ????????

Phase 3 = Dictatorship/Communism/Fascism/Authoritarianism/NWO

Jan 08, 2021, 14:41

1) Yes, my experience is anecdotal. That much is obvious. What if 1 in 20 people have a similar experience to me? Yep...still amounts to millions of people on scammed benefits. Ever wondered why not a fraction of the time or money is spent on benefit scamming as compared to other crime which is way less costly? 

2) Yes, someone may at some time in their life need government assisted healthcare..my point that it could a) be better if less were using it and b) does not allow for competition. It is bloated and largely unnecessary.

3) If you can't see how being dependant on government gives them undue control over outcomes in your life then perhaps you should think about it a little deeper instead of asking me to explain what should be quite obvious.

4) Education costs in the US skyrocketed directly, and I mean directly, as a result of government influence as regarded banks making loans available to students. Prior to that, very few people left tertiary education with debt. A direct result of socialist interference with a system that was just fine as it was. Thank you for bringing up.


Jan 08, 2021, 15:39

1) I don't base my outlook on anecdotal evidence, I base it on facts and evidence. We don't need to say what if, we can look up the actual numbers.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/801594/fraud-and-error-stats-release-2018-2019-estimates.pdf

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-39980793

https://www.cas.org.uk/features/myth-busting-real-figures-benefit-fraud

Absolutely benefit fraud occurs, it shouldn't and anyone found guilty of it should be prosecuted. However the claim that millions of people are scamming the system is crap. Out of the total benefit payments over the last couple of years in the UK 1.1% to 1.9% of the total payments where marked as fraudulent but that number also includes accidental over payment not intentional fraud. There is about 20 million people on the UK on some form of benefits, if it was true that millions where frauds, then the percentage of fraudulent payments would be far higher, anything for 15-25%. No government would allow such levels of fraud to occur without taking action. Your also suggest a usually high percentage of UK citizens are criminals.

2) Not it wouldn't be better with competition, improvements can always be made sure but from all the research and studies show countries with universal health care systems overall out preform countries that don't have it.

https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/#item-healthcare-quality-and-access-haq-index-rating-2016

3) Nice attempt at an evade but its a transparent attempt nonetheless. You don't have an answer do you. Your just repeating the right wing mantra that any form of socialism will somehow inevitably lead to the end of freedom, but you have nothing to back it up with.

4) Thank you for arguing my point for me. Entry to American universities isn't free but actually rather expensive which results in crippling levels of debt being hoisted onto students. Your actually arguing for socialized education here.

Jan 08, 2021, 20:58

...And I'm telling you that they are not looking very hard to catch benefit thieves nor auditing the process with much vigor.

And I suppose you don't know any benefit thieves? You'll be the first person from the UK that I've met who doesn't know one or more. Ask the other chaps on here that live in the UK if they know or have met some. All anecdotal. I'll bet that at least half of them know of someone claiming what isn't due to them.

Do you think any of the people I mentioned form part of your 1%? No, they don't. One has to be caught for it to register as inappropriate. And let's remember that benefits go to anyone that doesn't have a job. So lazy cunts can claim all their lives and it's completely legal...IE not in your 1% either. And there are many lazy pricks up and down the UK living off of what hard working people earn.  

What happened in US was that universities would compete for students...free of government intervention. If there prices were too high students would go elsewhere. Then government intervened and forced banks to allow student loans. When the money became available, prices went up and have continued to go up ever since. That is exactly what occurred and a great example of why governments should keep their noses where they belong and socialist Shazza that just wants equity for all should probably jump off a bridge.

A seemingly benign socialist intervention messed with a capitalist system that was working just fine. The net result, is that US students now leave University with often over $100k of student loan to pay off.

You never answered my question...are you still forced to pay full NIS even if you have private health insurance?


Jan 08, 2021, 21:28

"...And I'm telling you that they are not looking very hard to catch benefit thieves nor auditing the process with much vigor."

Evidence?

"And I suppose you don't know any benefit thieves? You'll be the first person from the UK that I've met who doesn't know one or more. Ask the other chaps on here that live in the UK if they know or have met some. All anecdotal. I'll bet that at least half of them know of someone claiming what isn't due to them."

Honestly I don't know anyone I could say for certain, I do know one person who potentially could be considered a benefit thief but I'm pretty certain the guy has un-diagnosed mental health issues. I don't live in the UK, as I said I live in Ireland. Again I don't based my decisions on anecdotal evidence, you may genuinely believe benefit fraud is massively widespread and so do your mates, but that doesn't make for compelling evidence. People have also a tendency to socialize with people of the same political view which just serves to reinforce there own view even further.

"Do you think any of the people I mentioned form part of your 1%? No, they don't. One has to be caught for it to register as inappropriate. And let's remember that benefits go to anyone that doesn't have a job. So lazy cunts can claim all their lives and it's completely legal...IE not in your 1% either. And there are many lazy pricks up and down the UK living off of what hard working people earn.  "

I've no idea if there in that 1% you didn't really go into details. Provide evidence to back up your claims otherwise its meaningless hear say.

"What happened in US was that universities would compete for students...free of government intervention. If there prices were too high students would go elsewhere. Then government intervened and forced banks to allow student loans. When the money became available, prices went up and have continued to go up ever since. That is exactly what occurred and a great example of why governments should keep their noses where they belong and socialist Shazza that just wants equity for all should probably jump off a bridge."

So would the students need to take out these massive loans if third level education was free?
None of what you said would happen if the higher level education was free. No entry fee, no need for loans, no need for universities to jack up prices because everyone can pay and they need some way of allocating entry (I dunno why they couldn't just keep the fees the same and allocate positions based on grading from secondary level like the rest of the world does ). Your basically arguing against a capitalist system and you don't even realize it.

"A seemingly benign socialist intervention messed with a capitalist system that was working just fine. The net result, is that US students now leave University with often over $100k of student loan to pay off."

You're proving my point from earlier in the thread, people who criticize socialist policies often haven't a scooby doo what they actually are.

"You never answered my question...are you still forced to pay full NIS even if you have private health insurance?"

I didn't see you asking me a question. I don't know what NIS is and you still haven't come remotely close to answering my first question as well. How does having universal health care give my government greater control over my life than a person living in a country without universal health care.








Jan 08, 2021, 21:48

Countries are not socialist, communist or capitalist, they are a mix between all systems. 


A communist economy is having no private enterprise or competition. Even the most communist countries like China have some capitalism and private ownership- not one company per industry- which is a communist economic system

If a country was 100% capitalist, everything would be privately owned and there would be no tax. In effect no government or public services. Not even public services like the post office, hospital, schools etc. Basically nationalised services. (Communism)

A country like Germany has one of the best systems in the world. Their GDP is a third of America, but they also have a third of the population - so it is pretty equal. However, the average person in Germany is richer than in the US- especially when removing the Super rich tech billionaires.
Germany seems to want to make sure the richest are paying their fair percentage of tax. So Germany has more socialism in the mix, but they are not a socialist country. 

Government (socialist) intervention to ensure competition within industries is actually better for capitalism- than say just allowing competitors to merge and markets to consolidate- thereby giving more power and centralisation to fewer people. 

The problem with the richest who are 100% committed to capitalism is they are not as committed to the ideals of having competitors to split up the power (Democratize). 
People are getting poorer, while the richest 1% get richer because of global monopolies and oligopolies.
Power is centralising (like Communism or Socialism) due to global corporates killing the competition. 
The whole ideal of Democracy is to split up the power- decentralize, or democratize.
Not equally, but having 99% of the wealth in 1% of the population is not ideal. And some of richest are tax evaders, so the medium earners have to pay for the poor and the rich. 

Whereas if it was a perfect competition marketplace- the ideal market state for capitalism- lots more people will be happy. Power and wealth would be less centralised, more to the natural balance- whatever that should be.

Perfect competition in capitalism has less need for any regulation - as it is almost impossible to corrupt. (e.g. political bribes). Customers and employees have more options, giving them some power. 

In an ecomomic marketplace that is a monopoly or oligopoly where 1% of the population own like 99% of the wealth, having some "socialism/public services" is essential. Sure there will be an opportunity for scammers - but this is only a percentage. 

It is investing in the future of tomorrow. Many poor people have gone onto to be rich in the future. 

Jan 08, 2021, 23:14

The trouble with Communism/Socialism starts when some animals start being more equal than others.:angel:

Jan 08, 2021, 23:55

"Countries are not socialist, communist or capitalist, they are a mix between all systems."

Yup, that's pretty much the case.

Jan 09, 2021, 05:16

Actually the high US healthcare costs are another unfortunate result of left wing thinking....every institution  is inherently bad so lawyers have to be given every opportunity to find wrong doing, particularly in medicine. And then when it’s found Robin Hood judges are trained to give vast awards, way beyond reason.

And so what do you do if you are a doctor or a hospital. You practice defensive medicine. Every conceivable test is ordered, every possible procedure is advised....every drug is considered.

Plus the price of any drug is highest in the US, especially if it was developed in the US.

Leftie thinking is destructively driving up the cost of medicine and education.....and with Joe Biden the light has just turned green again.

Jan 09, 2021, 09:54

Oh for heaven sake, Star.

How about...If government forces you to pay for something that is available elsewhere and which you may not want nor need?

That amounts to undue control.

You might love it but the next guy doesn't. 

TV licences are another example. At this point it's possible to prove whether or not you watch anything from your national broadcaster. Doesn't matter, cough up.



Jan 09, 2021, 10:02

Shark, I don't agree with wealth tax at all.

Quite the opposite. Give talented people more incentive.

How?

What about, if I create and sustain a thousand jobs...then I don't need to pay tax?

Let's take it further. If my company shows certain growth then my employees get tax breaks too.





Jan 09, 2021, 13:59

"Oh for heaven sake, Star.

How about...If government forces you to pay for something that is available elsewhere and which you may not want nor need?

That amounts to undue control.

You might love it but the next guy doesn't. 

TV licences are another example. At this point it's possible to prove whether or not you watch anything from your national broadcaster. Doesn't matter, cough up."

You're just arguing against taxes in general. With your logic we should all support defunding the police. I have never used the police service so why should I have to pay for them right?.

What about infrastructure projects in different parts of the countries like roads or say water purification plants that you will never use. How dare the government spend tax money on flood defenses, I don't live anywhere near area's that flood right?

As for one person liking universal health care and the next person not, in the UK it would have widespread popular support, I seen figures of support in the UK for the NHS between 77% and 89% . The NHS is one of the UK's great achievement, a jewel in the crown so to speak. In other countries with similar health care systems they again have popular support. I'm not saying their perfect systems but the public by and large prefer them over exclusively private run health care.

TV license's is something I half a agree on you with. I do watch the RTE news alot which is run by the nation broadcaster but virtually nothing else. I do think the service provides outside the news is poor as are its online services as well. For the amount I use it, I think the fee should be less or the organization running it reformed. Some of the salaries are abit too high. The difference between a national TV service and say policing and health care is that I'm not sure you would considered a national TV service an essential service.

But again just because I don't agree with where some tax money is spent or the fact all of it is not directly being spent on infrastructure and services that benefit me,  doesn't make me any less free.

I can vote for who I want, I can travel anywhere in the country, I can leave the country and come back to it, there is a free press here with multiple news sources as well as having unrestricted access to the internet and internal news sources. I'm free to own property, I don't get harassed by the police, crime levels in the country while not among the best in the world would never give me cause for concern when I leave my house. And most of all I don't in anyway feel oppressed or less free than say someone in America.

Jan 09, 2021, 14:33

Nope,  I'm not arguing against taxes at all.

Your examples of roads and police is a poor one. There are entities that require national oversight and without which society could not function. 

Nationalised healthcare isn't one of them.

It's an overreach.



 
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