ouSeb can I have the CNN link pse?
ouSeb can I have the CNN link pse?
I'm really not interested in any media view points...they are all tainted with dishonest peoples bias.
It's the results that interest me.
I'm a republican at heart but I don't like Trump but would vote for him if I lived in USA simply because I believe the"new" democrats are evil people and strongly lean to socialism which is an abomination in the world and yes it doesn't work. Trump I don't like because he's crude and has no manners and treats his lovely wife badly.
But this issue won't change the election (maybe I'm wrong because I do not follow the political side all that well) but it would reveal if there was election fraud and interference.
I don't understand how people can enjoy any victory whether it's sport or election victory if it's contaminated. I'm just not made that way. To me it's very disturbing the way the new world regards principles and integrity.
It is a travesty that is happening in SA...there is no law and order... and corruption, theft and looting is totally out of control with the weak government who cannot bring serious criminals to justice.
USA is even more important but crooks abound there with such power and influence.
Denny says no more years, but I say a lot more tears as we face a very gloomy future worldwide.
Lets wait and see, and you are damn right nobody wants this to happen but the words of the prophets is clearly written on the walls closer to home.
Seb there is a difference between full on socialism the of which likes of which you have in China and Cuba and socialism you have in democratic societies.
In Europe many countries have free health care and free high levels of education and these policies have popular support among the people. At the same time these countries support free elections, free press, free speech, the right to open property, freedom of movement etc. They don't suppress their people, their not police states or dictatorships, they don't have concentration camps or gulags.
In America to the political right Socialism is evil, but I doubt many of them even know what socialism is. They just think Nazi's or Communists.
As I said before the democarts aren't even that left wing. They would considered centre or centre right over here. In many respects the democrats just want America to catch up to what the rest of the first world takes for granted.
So the rest of the world supports.....a salary check for everybody....property taxes that are10 times as high as you would pay in England....voting without identification....unlimited mail in voting....defunding the police....looting in a good cause....wealth taxes....late term abortions?
As if you're accurately representing the democrats position on several of those issues.
Please let me use the KISS method...keep it simple stupid!
Socialism = Looting and theft at all levels
Socialism = weak and soft crime control and leniency on major crimes and harshness on petty crime and,white collar issues.
Socialism = Sympathy for the guilty individual of serious crime and the plight of the victim is sadly overlooked.
Socialism = Collective thinking
Socialism = Death of initiative and control by red tape
Socialism = Call centres instead of individual services
Socialism = Heads of companies sit in ivory towers, do nothing, are inapproachable and earn safe income far beyond their productive worth and too many useless, non-productive politicians that are looters.
I could go on and on ...it's sickening and terribly evil.
No thanks.
Collectivism vs Individualism.
Chaos vs Order.
If you smother the individual, you suffocate society as a whole...History is an open book.
Perhaps Stav should visit SA and see how "well" socialist policies are doing here.
Better still, take a trip to some other African countries that were NEVER colonised and tell us what socialist policies would best get them fed. Oh, that's right...socialism never brought anyone out of poverty. Only capitalism has. But, of course, as nations rest on the laurels of successful capitalist policies, greedy and power hungry politicians slide in, using the unfortunates and social incentive to garner support for ideas that never brought success in the first place.
Give us more money to take care of you.
Fuck that. Socialism means deeper reliance on government. It means more money to government and it results in government having more say over your life.
Perhaps you want to be ruled...I don't. I'll pay for private medical insurance, my own education and take care of my relatives.
Unless, of course, I'm like one of the millions of lazy assholes in the UK that claim benefit while being completely healthy. Thereby shrinking the pot and meaning elderly and sickly people get less. Will government complain...? Never. Why not? Because a bigger social wealth bill means they can collect more from the hard-working.
Don't give me this kak about how it works in SOME places. It doesn't work anywhere. The UK benefit system suffers the exact same issues as those economic problems face in outright communist countries...the difference being that socialism in Europe is washed over because they have capitalist systems propping it up.
Government must be diminished. It should be as small and as transparent as possible. It's aim should never be to increase its scope in the face of feasible alternatives.
When it does attempt to do grow itself, only fools aren't suspicious.
"Socialism means deeper reliance on government. It means more money to government and it results in government having more say over your life".
Very true... "Big Brother" wants total control over you...compulsory Census and all your private details...even shifts the responsibility to control and report "suspicious behaviour and financial peculiarities if you are a lawyer, financial service provider, accountant, estate agent. stock broker and a host of other professions dealing in money. This should be the work of police services who are too damn lazy and incompetent to do their job that tax payers pay for. Non-compliance of FICA has huge penalties and ironically money-laundering and organised crime has escalated in SA and has increased in leaps and bounds.
They scream about individual rights all the time but it is they who have stolen our identities. Bloody hypocrites.
They strain at gnats and swallow camels .No sense at all of priorities.
The thinking man is isolated in these societies. They are not only interested in stealing our money but our identities too.
Despicable evil bastards...you cannot go lower than this.
Actually puts the Soviet Union to shame...ask Elena.
Don't give me this kak about how it works in SOME places. It doesn't work anywhere. The UK benefit system suffers the exact same issues as those economic problems face in outright communist countries...the difference being that socialism in Europe is washed over because they have capitalist systems propping it up. "
This is just unmitigated rubbish as well. its complete nonsense to say their is millions of people are scamming social welfare in the UK. Go do some fact checking on this and don't just parrot the right wing propaganda because its suits your political views. Do people scam the system in the UK yes absolutely, buts its tiny minority of social welfare recipients, yes the scammers cost millions, and they should be tracked down and prosecuted for doing so, but even allowing for this the benefits of the system outweigh the cost.
Reward the productive so that your government can boost the economy to pay services for the deserving unfortunate...yes it's our job to give a lift up to those in need.
Socialism puts the cart before the horse.
People only become productive if there is a strong sense of individual worth and yes it is not only money. But Andy Capps on the dole don't deserve support...what a man sows so shall he reap.
I will gladly help those who are trying their best but weak irresponsible people absolutely no.
Teach a man to fish and not give him a fish is how it works. Give people self-respect does far more value for society as a whole.
Life is not laziness and ease...that's a delusion...the happiest people are those that produce with honesty and integrity and give their best.
You get the makers and the takers always, that's unfortunatelly a reality but socialism encourages the takers and ruins it for all. We all pay for that up to a point but it results in bankrupt countries that continually have to borrow from wealthy countries at high rates. The cycle can be never ending = Zimbabwe (once as Rhodesia, the" bread basket" of Africa).
Easy Star
No universal healthcare. People that are working pay for their health insurance.
Those that cannot afford to must apply for government assistance. That assistance is given only if the person has a legitimate reason for not being able to have insurance. If you're a fit and healthy person but can't pay your medical insurance because you refuse to take a shitty job...bottom line - Piss off and die on the pavement because society doesn't owe you anything. Be unable to pay for legitimate reasons and you'll get better service because 30 year-old Lazy Lee is taking up a space in the queue.
Shrink the pot to its smallest vs universal healthcare.
Exactly as I said, the unfortunates are used as a means to force the entire country to opt into a system that 95% of people don't need and which would be better served by a competitive insurance market.
Also...if I recall correctly, you can have private health insurance but you'll still be paying your share towards the NHS? I could be wrong here but that's what I remember.
Benefit scammers not a reality? Unlike you, I lived in three different UK cities. In each of those places I knew people that were working, healthy, educated etc...all claiming benefit and housing when they had the potential to earn as much or more than I was but they were lazy, dishonest and unable to avoid the socialist carrot that was perpetually dangled in front of them.
Anyway, be honest in your argument. Don't use people that actually need help to cover for a system that is bloated way beyond what it needs to be.
Rather address the point...that being how government wants to inflate social welfare systems because it means they get more money and more say over your life.
"Exactly as I said, the unfortunates are used as a means to force the entire country to opt into a system that 95% of people don't need and which would be better served by a competitive insurance market."
The vast majority of people will at some point of their life need to use it, particularly as people get older. Research and studies shows countries with universal health care systems have better health care outcomes than countries that don't have it.
I never said benefit scammers don't exist. But the scale of the issue is always greatly exaggerated. Just because you know some people who claim benefits which they may be perfectly entitled to of the system doesn't make them lazy or dishonest, after all your saying these people are working. The UK has a population of 60 million, your personal experience does not necessarily apply to the rest of the UK.
So like wise be honest in your argument, don't use a tiny minority of people who abuse a system when the benefits of the system have been shown to massively outweigh the abuse.
You didn't answer how my government here in Ireland has more control over me because we have a universal health care system.
Is it something like the South Park underpants gnomes.
Phase 1 = Steal underwear
Phase 2 = ????????
Phase 3 = Profit
Only in this case its
Phase 1 = Universal Health Care
Phase 2 = ????????
Phase 3 = Dictatorship/Communism/Fascism/Authoritarianism/NWO
1) Yes, my experience is anecdotal. That much is obvious. What if 1 in 20 people have a similar experience to me? Yep...still amounts to millions of people on scammed benefits. Ever wondered why not a fraction of the time or money is spent on benefit scamming as compared to other crime which is way less costly?
2) Yes, someone may at some time in their life need government assisted healthcare..my point that it could a) be better if less were using it and b) does not allow for competition. It is bloated and largely unnecessary.
3) If you can't see how being dependant on government gives them undue control over outcomes in your life then perhaps you should think about it a little deeper instead of asking me to explain what should be quite obvious.
4) Education costs in the US skyrocketed directly, and I mean directly, as a result of government influence as regarded banks making loans available to students. Prior to that, very few people left tertiary education with debt. A direct result of socialist interference with a system that was just fine as it was. Thank you for bringing up.
1) I don't base my outlook on anecdotal evidence, I base it on facts and evidence. We don't need to say what if, we can look up the actual numbers.
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-39980793
https://www.cas.org.uk/features/myth-busting-real-figures-benefit-fraud
Absolutely benefit fraud occurs, it shouldn't and anyone found guilty of it should be prosecuted. However the claim that millions of people are scamming the system is crap. Out of the total benefit payments over the last couple of years in the UK 1.1% to 1.9% of the total payments where marked as fraudulent but that number also includes accidental over payment not intentional fraud. There is about 20 million people on the UK on some form of benefits, if it was true that millions where frauds, then the percentage of fraudulent payments would be far higher, anything for 15-25%. No government would allow such levels of fraud to occur without taking action. Your also suggest a usually high percentage of UK citizens are criminals.
2) Not it wouldn't be better with competition, improvements can always be made sure but from all the research and studies show countries with universal health care systems overall out preform countries that don't have it.
https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf
3) Nice attempt at an evade but its a transparent attempt nonetheless. You don't have an answer do you. Your just repeating the right wing mantra that any form of socialism will somehow inevitably lead to the end of freedom, but you have nothing to back it up with.
4) Thank you for arguing my point for me. Entry to American universities isn't free but actually rather expensive which results in crippling levels of debt being hoisted onto students. Your actually arguing for socialized education here.
...And I'm telling you that they are not looking very hard to catch benefit thieves nor auditing the process with much vigor.
And I suppose you don't know any benefit thieves? You'll be the first person from the UK that I've met who doesn't know one or more. Ask the other chaps on here that live in the UK if they know or have met some. All anecdotal. I'll bet that at least half of them know of someone claiming what isn't due to them.
Do you think any of the people I mentioned form part of your 1%? No, they don't. One has to be caught for it to register as inappropriate. And let's remember that benefits go to anyone that doesn't have a job. So lazy cunts can claim all their lives and it's completely legal...IE not in your 1% either. And there are many lazy pricks up and down the UK living off of what hard working people earn.
What happened in US was that universities would compete for students...free of government intervention. If there prices were too high students would go elsewhere. Then government intervened and forced banks to allow student loans. When the money became available, prices went up and have continued to go up ever since. That is exactly what occurred and a great example of why governments should keep their noses where they belong and socialist Shazza that just wants equity for all should probably jump off a bridge.
A seemingly benign socialist intervention messed with a capitalist system that was working just fine. The net result, is that US students now leave University with often over $100k of student loan to pay off.
You never answered my question...are you still forced to pay full NIS even if you have private health insurance?
Countries are not socialist, communist or capitalist, they are a mix between all systems.
The trouble with Communism/Socialism starts when some animals start being more equal than others.
"Countries are not socialist, communist or capitalist, they are a mix between all systems."
Yup, that's pretty much the case.
Actually the high US healthcare costs are another unfortunate result of left wing thinking....every institution is inherently bad so lawyers have to be given every opportunity to find wrong doing, particularly in medicine. And then when it’s found Robin Hood judges are trained to give vast awards, way beyond reason.
And so what do you do if you are a doctor or a hospital. You practice defensive medicine. Every conceivable test is ordered, every possible procedure is advised....every drug is considered.
Plus the price of any drug is highest in the US, especially if it was developed in the US.
Leftie thinking is destructively driving up the cost of medicine and education.....and with Joe Biden the light has just turned green again.
Oh for heaven sake, Star.
How about...If government forces you to pay for something that is available elsewhere and which you may not want nor need?
That amounts to undue control.
You might love it but the next guy doesn't.
TV licences are another example. At this point it's possible to prove whether or not you watch anything from your national broadcaster. Doesn't matter, cough up.
Shark, I don't agree with wealth tax at all.
Quite the opposite. Give talented people more incentive.
How?
What about, if I create and sustain a thousand jobs...then I don't need to pay tax?
Let's take it further. If my company shows certain growth then my employees get tax breaks too.
"Oh for heaven sake, Star.
How about...If government forces you to pay for something that is available elsewhere and which you may not want nor need?
That amounts to undue control.
You might love it but the next guy doesn't.
TV licences are another example. At this point it's possible to prove whether or not you watch anything from your national broadcaster. Doesn't matter, cough up."
You're just arguing against taxes in general. With your logic we should all support defunding the police. I have never used the police service so why should I have to pay for them right?.
What about infrastructure projects in different parts of the countries like roads or say water purification plants that you will never use. How dare the government spend tax money on flood defenses, I don't live anywhere near area's that flood right?
As for one person liking universal health care and the next person not, in the UK it would have widespread popular support, I seen figures of support in the UK for the NHS between 77% and 89% . The NHS is one of the UK's great achievement, a jewel in the crown so to speak. In other countries with similar health care systems they again have popular support. I'm not saying their perfect systems but the public by and large prefer them over exclusively private run health care.
TV license's is something I half a agree on you with. I do watch the RTE news alot which is run by the nation broadcaster but virtually nothing else. I do think the service provides outside the news is poor as are its online services as well. For the amount I use it, I think the fee should be less or the organization running it reformed. Some of the salaries are abit too high. The difference between a national TV service and say policing and health care is that I'm not sure you would considered a national TV service an essential service.
But again just because I don't agree with where some tax money is spent or the fact all of it is not directly being spent on infrastructure and services that benefit me, doesn't make me any less free.
I can vote for who I want, I can travel anywhere in the country, I can leave the country and come back to it, there is a free press here with multiple news sources as well as having unrestricted access to the internet and internal news sources. I'm free to own property, I don't get harassed by the police, crime levels in the country while not among the best in the world would never give me cause for concern when I leave my house. And most of all I don't in anyway feel oppressed or less free than say someone in America.
Nope, I'm not arguing against taxes at all.
Your examples of roads and police is a poor one. There are entities that require national oversight and without which society could not function.
Nationalised healthcare isn't one of them.
It's an overreach.
sebastienchabal
Bok regular
908 posts
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