Here’s why Ukraine’s defeat could mean the end of NATO in its current form

The bloc has too much riding on Kiev’s highly-unlikely success, and that’s why it’s doing all it can to prolong the conflict By Chay Bowes, journalist and geopolitical analyst, MA in Strategic Studies. Here’s why Ukraine’s defeat could mean the end of NATO in its current form As the West’s proxy war in Ukraine slips inexorably towards utter failure, the neocons behind the debacle are faced with dwindling avenues of retreat. Early confidence that Russia, in its current form, would collapse under the pressure of the harshest sanctions regime in history failed to materialize. Early Russian miscalculations on the battlefield were not followed by a military meltdown, but by a pragmatic display of strategic adaptability, which is begrudgingly admired in the military war rooms of the West. The Russian army, far from falling apart, has steeled itself into making bold decisions to retreat when prudent and advance when required, both of which have proven devastating for their Ukrainian opponents. It follows that, as the Western political elites that cultivated this conflict peer into another winter of political, military, and potentially economic discontent, it is now that we potentially face the most dangerous period in Europe since the outbreak of WWII. The catalyst for a wider war in Europe isn’t, in fact, a limited conflict in Ukraine in itself, one that started in 2014 and, notably, had been largely ignored by Western powers for almost a decade. The real issue is that NATO, which is currently engaged in a proxy War with Russia, is facing a ‘damned if you do and damned if you don’t’ scenario regarding its growing military involvement in Ukraine. If the US-led bloc escalates further as defeat looms, it could likely lead to direct confrontation with Russia. If it doesn’t, its proxy will collapse and leave Russia victorious, a fate once utterly unthinkable in Brussels, Washington, and London, but now becoming a nightmarish reality. Such a defeat would be devastating and potentially terminal for the prestige and reputation of the whole NATO brand. After all, despite the Soviet Union having long ceased to exist, the bloc still markets itself as an indispensable bulwark against imagined Russian expansionism. In the event of an increasingly likely Ukrainian defeat, that ‘essential partner’ in ‘countering Russia’ will have been proven utterly impotent and largely irrelevant. More cynically, the vast US arms industry would also be denied a huge and lucrative market. So, how does a multi-billion-dollar machine that has prophesied absolute victory against Russia even begin to contemplate defeat? And how do senior EU bureaucrats like Ursula Von der Leyen climb down from their quasi-religious devotion to the ‘cause’ of utterly defeating Russia, which she has shamelessly evangelized for over a year and a half? Lastly, how does the American administration, which has gone politically, morally, and economically ‘all in’ against Russia in Ukraine, contemplate what amounts to an increasingly inevitable European version of Afghanistan 2.0? The Wunderwaffe delusion: Ukraine’s Western backers are happy to feed Zelensky’s fantasies about American F-16s They will need to do two things: Firstly, find someone to blame for their defeat and secondly, find a new enemy to deflect public opinion onto. The ‘someone to blame’ will be quite easy to identify – the narrative will be flush with attacks on states like Hungary, China, and to some extent India, who will be accused of "undermining the unified effort needed to isolate and defeat Russiia. Blaming Ukraine itself will also be central to this narrative. Western media will insure it’s singled out as incapable of ‘taking the medicine’ proffered by NATO and therefore suffering the consequences, not listening to Western military advice, failing to utilize Western aid correctly and, of course – given that little has been done by Zelensky to tackle the endemic corruption in Ukraine – this fact will be easily weaponized against him and used to lubricate a slick narrative of ‘we tried to help them, but they simply couldn’t be saved from themselves’. The ‘shift focus to another enemy’ narrative is the simplest and most obvious – that will be China. NATO is already trying to expand its influence in Asia, including via a planned ‘liaison office’ in Japan. The ‘China is the real threat’ narrative is bubbling steadily to the surface in Western media. And, most worryingly, should Western powers fail to make their case for ‘plausible deniability’ around the culpability for this war, there is always the option of further escalating it. Such an escalation could rapidly lead to direct confrontation between NATO and Russia, an outcome no lucid observer on either side of the debate could or should be contemplating. The problem is, rational assessment and negotiation seem to have become so rare in Washington and Kiev that a devastating escalation could, quite remarkably, be considered an option by the deluded neocon think-tank advisers wielding disproportionate influence over an increasingly desperate political class in Washington and Brussels. In the event that NATO does indeed sanction a direct intervention into Ukraine, it will, of course, be justified as a ‘peacekeeping’ or humanitarian intervention by Polish or Romanian troops, but the categorization of the ‘mission’ will become gloriously irrelevant when the first clashes with Russian forces occur, followed by a potentially rapid spiral into all-out war between Russia and NATO. It could be argued that the process to disassociate from Ukraine has already started, beginning with the embarrassment Zelensky faced at the recent NATO summit and progressing with the open spats between Western ‘partners’ over whether to give Ukraine ever deadlier weapons to essentially insure its self-destruction. From here on out one thing is abundantly clear, nothing will happen by accident when it comes to the EU and NATO's interaction with the Zelensky regime. Whatever comes next may need to be spun both ways, to either pull out or to escalate. A case in point is the blame game being openly acted out around the obvious failure of Ukraine’s counteroffensive, with open finger-pointing in the Western media by Ukrainian officials like the ambassador to Germany, Aleksey Makeev. Kiev’s top man in Germany recently blamed the West for the bloody failure of the ill-fated project, suggesting it was solely due to European and American delays in shipping weapons and cash to Kiev. According to the ambassador, it was this Western failure that apparently allowed the Russians to build their defenses in eastern Ukraine, where tens of thousands of unfortunate Ukrainian conscripts have met their fate in the past three months. In the real world, the counteroffensive, which has now become a slow-motion calamity, had been telegraphed to the Russians and the wider world for almost a year and will surely be recalled as one of the greatest military misadventures in history. The fact that the Ukrainian regime openly advertised its intentions, even loudly pointing out the avenue of assault and strategic goals, is conveniently ignored by the likes of Makeev. It now seems apparent that Kiev believed that its overt saber-rattling would stimulate faster and larger weapons shipments from its increasingly concerned partners – it didn’t, and by the time those very same sponsors’ patience ran out with Kiev’s lack of progress on the battlefield, it was glaringly obvious any offensive against long-prepared Russian defenses was doomed to fail. Yet, because of Kiev’s PR need and demands from Western political elites, the counteroffensive began, wiping out entire battalions of Ukrainian troops and burning through a huge portion of the Western heavy weapons previously provided. The situation evokes a kind of tragic romantic folly, with Ukraine desperate to woo NATO and the EU to the point of suicide, NATO and the EU playing the aloof lover; never having really considered marriage but willing to allow its admirer to throw itself onto the spears of the real object of their attention – Russia. Of course, the real concern now preoccupying the EU-NATO cabal is how to survive this tawdry affair and move on. While the hapless Jens Stoltenberg would have us believe NATO has never been stronger, the reality is far less rosy for the ‘defensive alliance’ that has bombed its way across Europe and the Middle East, and now seeks to expand to the Pacific. The reality is that the Ukraine conflict could destroy NATO. It has become something of a modern day League of Nations, adept at admonishing small fish, but utterly incapable of standing toe to toe with any peer adversary, a failed political institution, posing as a military alliance, that in reality would collapse in the face of a direct challenge from either Russia or China. Of course, it seems that NATO has also willfully fallen under the spell of its own propaganda. The big question now is whether the bloc would in reality contemplate a direct confrontation with Russia in Ukraine? Or will the Western political elites who built the scaffold the Ukrainian conflict is now blazing on choose to reverse through blame or escalate through desperation? One thing is indisputable: The fate of NATO and its credibility as a ‘defensive alliance’ is irrevocably intertwined with the outcome of the Ukrainian conflict, yet because NATO is, in reality, a political rather than military institution, these crucial issues will never be debated openly, as the answers would be akin to a priest announcing the nonexistence of God from the pulpit

LOL Chay Bowes...geopolitical analyst. He's a international tupperware relations expert shilling for Russia.

Here’s why Ukraine’s defeat could mean the end of NATO in its current form

NATO's current form is over. The treaty clearly delineates geographical boundaries.

NATO is no longer adapted as warfare is to be moved to Asia and must include countries that are excluded by the treaty's terms.

Defeat in Ukraine or not, NATO is bound to change.

Usual liberal strategy: they masturbate over an hypothesis in order to divert from ongoing actions.

Don't care what he does in business, do you judge a book by it's cover ?

W hat he writes makes common horse-sense and  rings true. Typical new liberal deviation and disruption tactics in your mindset and modus operandi  whilst you follow concocted stories in The Guardian.

Your emotional hatred for anything Russian will consume you and your type.

It's just a matter of time.

The only way NATO would end is if its members choose to leave it. Had Putin not invaded Ukraine, NATO might just have faded away. 
NATO is stronger now than ever. The most powerful military alliance in the world. 

If NATO does attack Russia, we could take it in a week or so. Just take over Moscow and St Petersberg, and the rest of the country will fall. Outside the cities, most are dumb and religious rural people that are no match for modern day thinking.

Don't care what he does in business, do you judge a book by it's cover ?

No I've come across him before. The guy is Irish and it made the news here when he was addressing the UN a few months back offering a Pro Russian narrative...no one had really heard of him before and everyone was like who is this clown and why was he invited to speak at the UN.

What he writes makes common horse-sense and  rings true. Typical new liberal deviation and disruption tactics in your mindset and modus operandi  whilst you follow concocted stories in The Guardian.

Look I get this war is difficult for you. You obviously have great affinity for Russia but its clear you have been totally taking in by Russian propaganda . Anyone who is even remotely impartial can see what's happening, Russia is waging a war of aggression against its neighbor, committing numerous war crimes in the process and its all gone very badly wrong for them.

Your emotional hatred for anything Russian will consume you and your type.

Why doesn't Russia stop hiding behind nuclear threats? After the Soviet era fell, Russia was actually very weak.

If all nuclear bombs in the world could be decommissioned, we would gladly meet Russia on the battlefield to DeNazify them.

That train of tanks that went into Ukraine would be taken out by our strike airforces with ease. 

Why doesn't Russia stop hiding behind nuclear threats?

Because they spent money on nuclear weapons to this avail.

If Russia won today the learning points are:

1 The vaunted Russian military has taken 18 months to defeat a much smaller military

2 Their old bogey man technique of rolling in the tanks is so last century

3 NATO won’t fight for non members, but it will pay the price to support just causes.

4 There are a group of opportunistic Nations that have no moral compass, that includes India, China and South Africa.

5 Nobody wins when nations engage in empire building

But of course Russia won’t win today, this month and perhaps even this year.

Liberals and their self perception

The vaunted Russian military has taken 18 months to defeat a much smaller military

Ukraine has received a tremendous support in terms of capital from the West. To be compared to development aid or whatever.

NATO won’t fight for non members, but it will pay the price to support just causes.

What price. Ukraine is being indebted to wild proportions and later, may join the EU that will get to share the burden of the debt.

Just causes. NATO supports NATO compatible causes, whether they happen to be just or unjust.

Ethics or stuff like that is not compatible with liberalism. Just, unjust is not a factor in decision making, even though liberals enjoy dressing their trade advancing projects under ethical disguise, calling up for humanitarian pretexts or things like that

etc

Some people find it impossible to face up to reality, when the bubble of deceit bursts.

Some people find it impossible to face up to reality, when the bubble of deceit bursts.

Did it ever cross your mind that' s maybe you?

Seb defines deceit as anybody who disagrees with his views.

Poor Seb

He posted  an opinion piece bya person in the media and he is condemned by two of the members thriving on propaganda media reports  - most of them rabidly anti-Russian that ignore facts and support the US proxy war in Ukraine.

What a show that is - any supporter of a peaceful settelement in the view of these to warmongers are attacked of beuing Putin supporters,   What a show.

 SB

The fact is that the idiotic Biden and his cronies want desperately a war with Russia.   They are indeed dementia suffering and crooked shit  that may start using nuclear weapons against Russia.   The fact is that they need reminding that the Russian response will be horrible.    .     

Well Mike if you could actually follow the thread, I didn't condemn Seb, I was just laughing at the source of the article he posted because I've come across that guy before. He's as much a geopolitical analyst as as the ducks that live outside my apartment are.

Seb actually then accesses me of deliberate deviation and disruption tactics, believing in concocted stories and hating Russians.

Only then did I respond that's he indoctrinated

Your probably worse than he is on that score. 

And your not in support of a just peace, your version of peace is giving a murderous dictator everything he wants.

Well , the bubble will burst and then we'll see who is deceiving.I don't think it's going to be too  long now. But they'll still be in denial.

One-eyed prejudiced people who only fertilise their own self interest and never put their feet in the other mans shoes, who never listen to the other side and don't want to correct themselves. They don't want to understand. It is very clear and they certainly don't understand, neither do they want to.

They also put Kangaroo court judgement on people they certainly don't know. They are suckers for lapping up all the lies and bullshit spouted by mainstream western media.

I understand the Russian position perfectly and had some sympathy for it….up until the time they marched into a weaker country and started an unnecessary war that actually serves no purpose.

Russia is not a global power, its economy is too small for its ambitions. So it has to rattle the nuclear bucket. If they focused instead on their economy and their great reserves of natural resources they would be better off.

And we would be better off, closer to a debate where we could understand the other man’s perspective if you and Clever stopped the insults. 

You are a liar, you don't and have no clue.The narrative is false, twisted and out of context. You are pompous and a hypocrite.Meanwhile your government slaughters millions of people and pokes it's ugly snout into other countries affairs to loot and feather the nests of neo cons at the ordinary decent American's cost, using other country's men to fight their battles in proxy wars. . Disgusting and incredibly cowardly.

Anyone from the West who supports Putin seems to be religious.
These people hate the West, just as Islam hates the West. 

So they are going to support the other side, no matter what. 

Being religious can give someone conviction and purpose, but the problem starts when they start doubting their own beliefs - then they get angry at the world as a result. 
Religion is in decline and these ways are fading from mainstream to alternative reality. 

Troubled with providing logical arguments and facts, they know deep down that just believing in something does not make it true.

Well , the bubble will burst and then we'll see who is deceiving. I don't think it's going to be too  long now. But they'll still be in denial.

You keep saying that. When is the bubble going burst, what are we going to see?. Do you have any idea how much like a cult member you sound when you keep repeating that?

One-eyed prejudiced people who only fertilise their own self interest and never put their feet in the other mans shoes, who never listen to the other side and don't want to correct themselves. They don't want to understand. It is very clear and they certainly don't understand, neither do they want to.

Again do you ever apply that logic to yourself? 

They also put Kangaroo court judgement on people they certainly don't know. They are suckers for lapping up all the lies and bullshit spouted by mainstream western media.

And is this the sort of news we should be listening too?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1701173268399419805

Or should we trust Russia is only interested in Ukraine when one of its commanders is saying this?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1700441470182838679

Well said Seb and Mike. 

Mozz has been lying in a sickening manner about the war ever since it began. He refuses to consider the facts. 

That analysis you posted lines up very much with what Colonel McGregor has been saying. He also wonders if NATO will survive a defeat in Ukraine. 

The Russian military will be up to over 1. 2 million men by early next year as tbe mobilization continues Russia could put up to 30 million men in the field. 

The defeat of Ukraine is certain.  

NATO is not prepared for a war in Ukraine and neither is the US. The EU countries like Germany and France don't want a war with Russia. 

Nobody can best Russia as they will simply push the button and wipe out EUROPE AND THE USA. Nothing could stop their subs off the coast of America laying waste America. Nothing could stop the hypersonic missile with nucleur warheads.

Any attempt at going to war with Russia is ensuring your own destruction. 

Ukraine has zero chance of stopping a Russian victory. 

So the only question really is will Europe go aling with the corrupt perverted, illigitimate Biden Regime and risk a nucleur war. I doubt it.

They will be looking for an off ramp and that will be to blame Ukraine who have lost 450,000 men killed and far more wounded. 

The war has been a well planned and deliberate disaster for the West. Think expansion of BRICS and dedollarization. 

Seb and Mike you are dealing with dishonest liars. They have had the facts about this war spelt out a number of times but they will not accept the truth about who instigated this war, who ensures it continues and who has stopped peace talks. I have nothing but complete contempt for them. 

Lie, that’s a word you Russia Bots bandy about all the time. Here’s one for you to consider Putin is a humble man with assets totally commensurate with his salary as a politician. The three of you are willing to live with that monstrous lie and yet you accuse others of lying?

As Gordon Gekko said, stop lying about me and I’ll stop telling the truth about you.

Putin can not keep funding the war indefinitely, but the West can.  Our military budget is much bigger.
As the Oligarchs become poorer, someone will take Putin out.

Putin might just be waiting to see if Trump is re-elected.
Trump may leave NATO, but he will certainly end support for Ukraine shortly after getting into office.

If Trump is elected, America will become a very different place.
He will no longer need votes to win another election because he will appoint himself for life. 
America would probably become more militant. 

"Our military budget"

The only reason you're fighting this proxy war is because you've found slavs to fight slavs. Your Nazis got slaughtered last time out here. Your French got sent packing too. Your NATO wants to rule over an empty desolate dark Ukraine, great thinkers you have. 

..

SB

It will never happen that Moscow would permanently be occupied by NATO.   They do not have the troops to do so and thee chances are that the idiots you supported will start a war by nuking that city - believing in the same level of idiocy you pronounce.

NATO is the weakest it has ever been since WW2 and nobody in the world bar the idiots like you want to start WW3.    You apparently are too sick in your mind to realize that the US Army is the weakest since WW2 and that the second largest army in NATO is Turkey who will not participate in a war against Russia,  .      

Unlike the West where total decline of morality and belief in anything bar what you are brainwashed into believing the Russians still have history and  culture on their side. 

Why the hell do you support an ideology to destroy the world proposed by the WEF - a world without borders and a population of 10% or less what it is at present?     

Mozart

I would not talk about the Russian Army when the record of the USA army in Iraq and Afghanistan is borne in mind.    The disaster in Iraq where US troops left in 2012 nurturing the rise of ISIS and the panicky fleeing of the army in the middle of the night leaving billions of of dollars in arms equipment behind is not a record to be proud of.    

Even in the USA the people according to opinion polls are divided  on the Ukraine War issue despite the propaganda they  are bombarded with on a daily basis.. 

The USA army is weaker than it ever was in the past 120 years,   because they have a dementia ridden President and the weakest leadership of the USA army the army about strong enough to conquer weaker states in Africa - but in WW3 which some people on site wants desperately and you apparently thought should happen because of the alleged weakness of  the Russian army, they would get nowhere wit the army as t is at present,     

You are talking about the termination of the occupation…..the occupation itself  came quickly. The US took Iraq in a few weeks. Talk to me again when Russia actually achieves an occupation….17 months and counting…..embarrassing

Eight years later and the conflict in Iraq continued. Hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths. The USA made allies with the Kurds and later dumped them.... we know. 

Mozart

You are delirious and losing  the whole point as a result.    There is no issue other than the treatment of Russian residents in Eastern Ukraine here at present.    

Russia never wanted to occupy Ukraine at all - but they signed two agreements that would protect those people from oppression by the Ukraine Government,    Russia has occupied most of those areas and only Kharkov and Odessa remain under Ukraine control.   The invasion aim was limited 

The idea you support that Russia wants to occupy the whole of Ukraine is propaganda BS,   Russia has fortified the area they have already occupied and the Ukraine so-called counter-attack is floundering and destroying what is left of the Ukraine army.

The Russiansd will move to occupy Kharkov and Odessa sooner rather than later and the war will become a stalemate after that.   One of the objectives in Odessa would be to close down the bio-lab the USA built (competed in 2018) and operate in Odessa as well.    No more gain of function research in that case.

      .     

Don't forget the deNazification rhetoric

Sorry you left Bleskop

Stav

I do support peace based on the Minsk agreement that guaranteed the borders of Ukraine and a new constitution for Ukraine that guarantee human rights of all people living in Ukraine.   

You apparently support the ethnic cleansing program of the Ukraine Government to wipe out the culture of Russian-speaking people in Ukraine and expel Russian speaking people through ethnic cleansing even though you claim otherwise.   Get real for a change - the present Ukraine Government are controlled by Ukrainians who hate Russia and has the support of the Biden crazy Government in Washington.   In other words the USA sabotaged the Minsk agreement and since they control the Ukraine Government through grant funding the issue of peaceful settlement  is being sabotaged by Washington.   

All-in-all you are talking BS.   Supporting a peaceful settlement based on the Minsk agreement as approved by the UN Security Council is all I do in this case.   You are brainwashed .to support a war based on propaganda lies spread by the media as well as an idea that Russian-speaking people living in Ukraine are sub-humans and not worthy of  protection,  

Just one thing to be added - the USA as admitted that corruption in Ukraine has caused arms delivery  initially after the war sstarted - in Senate under oath the US Defense force admitted only 30% of the arms supplied in the firs six months of the war reached the fighting army as a result of corruption in Ukraine and approved the deployment of a Colonel and about 200 soldiers to ensure deliveries of armaments reach the Ukraine army.   There were media reports linking the Ukraine Minister of Defense wiith the very real corruption as to arms deliveries and it led to report that he is to be fired,    Zelenskyy instead fired the Russian Commander in charge of the War in Eastern Ukraine instead.   He apparently was afraid to fire the Minister because he feared the Minister with his links to the Asov battalion.   H has now fired the Minister of defense.  Why did that happen?   

Anyone from the West who supports Putin seems to be religious.

Nope. People from the west who support Putin are very diverse, more diverse than people who support Ukraine.

Not it matters much, as it is a trade dispute. Antagonistic trade interests are what matters.

‘ Eight years later and the conflict in Iraq continued.’….nope the conflict was over in weeks. The rest was occupation and terrorism. You Russia bots should take note….if you finally manage to pull this off it will be a very dangerous occupation. 

The young men should go home to their parents and Russia should elect a modern government that actually cares about it’s people.

To say that XYZ caused conflict in the Middle East is nonsense. It is a place that has only known conflict. From the Biblical times of the old testament, to now -nothing has changed.

Everyone thought Sadam Hussein was the bad guy because he was gassing the other side, but if the other side was winning they would probably be worse. 

The rest was occupation and terrorism. You Russia bots should take note….if you finally manage to pull this off it will be a very dangerous occupation. 

Ole Western bots always avoid the Kurdish saga. Same as Afganistan, USA never ruled Iraq,never will. 

NATO will continue to exist, and continue to fund Democratic countries that are invaded by authoritarian regimes hellbent on imperialism and ignoring established international borders and territory. 

Apparently, Putin has already put plans in place to ensure he wins the next Russian Election by cheating.  https://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/21530

There is a saying, that a little knowledge is more dangerous than no knowledge.

In this case...the little "knowledge" is fed in reverse which makes it even more dangerous.

It is obvious that people are divided by ideology and pragmatism and reality. Between theory and practice, between immaturity and maturity.

People who put God, family, friends and humility as paramount and those who value self, ego, accolades and ideals as more important. The latter often change, hopefully later in life when they find life unbearable to live in such sterile unrewarding environment. Nothing can replace our human characteristics, nor ability to love, create, feel or think. Intellectualism can never replace wisdom which is a tougher and longer course in the university of life than academic achievement.

Ah,

1. Establish moral high ground and virtue signal through brand association to God. 
2. State my argument
3. Associate my argument with God.

4. I must be right - even if I cant prove what I am saying logically. 
God = "insert my argument" = good = right.
If God is good(true) and I believe in God(true), then my argument must be right(false).

Self delusion. Stand on your own 2 feet and make your own opinion and accept it just that.

... as opposed to being an obnoxious d!ck p!$$ing on something you don't know enough about to come close to understanding.

I understand religion better than you Draad.

Your imaginary friend has been cancelled, and with that you have lost your super power.
Now you have to face the world as an individual like the rest of us.

Your opinion is just that, not the words of a former Deity .

 Funny thing is this professor of non-religion sharkpit supports orthodox Christians. 

Are Orthodox Christians bad?

For you the Russian ones are. 

Giant new Russian cathedral glorifies Putin and Stalin in mosaics

Andrew Roth in Moscow

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/27/giant-new-russian-cathedral-glorifies-putin-stalin-mosaics

Blob, didn't read that, but surely it must be fake...sounds surreal...

Blob, didn't read that, but surely it must be fake...sounds surreal...

The very same Christian church declared that all Russians killed defending the Motherland are cleansed of their sins & gain direct entry thru em 'pearly gates'.

So what, the atheist Stalin used Communistic ideas to sprout the same rhetoric. Your atheist Stalin seems merged with Putin, what do you say to that, great thinker.

.nope the conflict was over in weeks.

Putin has taken leaves from the liberal playbook. Liberalism has provided such meaningful tools for a resilient power exercize that even tyranies, dictatures liberalized.

Putin did as liberals do; he did not declare a war, he declared a special operation, lingo that has no legal weight. Hence just as liberals operate put the whole thing outside the domain of war.

The rule of law.

Same here, the conflict in Iraq was over as a terminology. The fighting, the killing, the destruction never ceased. But as liberals declared it a conflict and from a legal point of view, what they call a conflict was no longer, hence it was over.

Liberals redefine the world as they redefine words, that is their progress. Redressing things.

It was not a war, it was pacification. It was not a war, it was a conflict.

Romans in comparison had bellum and rebellium: a war that started it all and then wars that were the repeat of the original war. What a difference in mindset.

Putin learned from liberals. Liberals made Putin.