There is no doubt trading conditions aren’t equivalent across the globe. I once negotiated getting US dairy products into Japan, almost impossible back then.

But the system that exists has been built over 100 years. It can’t be fixed in a week or a month or even 5 years.

There was a trade fairness edict that would have made sense. The current system of huge trade deficits will implode at some point. But it could have been done so much more soberly without countries feeling they are under attack.

The implementation of this in the short term risks chaos. In the longer it risks massive missteps.

Trump has always felt the US is being screwed and he found support among blue collar workers in swing states. He is paying back that support, but the longer term prospects for industrial labor in the US remain cloudy, because of robotics if nothing else. He may be trying to save something that is dated for other reasons.

Governor DeSantis is looking pretty good this morning. But more to the point big shifts to the right or left have massive counter responses in the US. If this chaos continues look to a massive swing to the left in 2028. Losing wiser heads like Mitch McConnell doesn’t help.

..

Thank god the US didn't vote for Kamala eh?

Snippy!

It's not even 3 months in yet...the dust will settle and things will come back to normal.

There is a chance things will come back to normal. There is also a chance countries like China may escalate. In the meantime the US has created a lot of bad will unnecessarily.

The puzzling thing is there is a good case for pushing for a level playing field…there was no need to be belligerent. That could come later if necessarily.

It reminds me of the decision to invade Iraq which squandered the sympathy for the US following 9/11.

The simplicity of the formula to calculate the tariffs also undermines the notion that this was a considered decision.

The 2nd term of Trump has no guardrails... His first term had some very capable conservatives who were also decent people.

His 2nd term is just low-skill sycophants that treat him like a king, with some billionaire advisors with no government experience looking to enrich themselves further.

Now we see the clown show that is proceeding. I already see people in Europe protesting to stop using American products and services. That is in addition to burning Tesla showrooms down - like in the US. Tesla sales have dropped substantially in Europe, and after this, they are just going to get worse

Many Americans are scared of defaulting on their massive 30 trillion debt. If they just made billionaires pay the same % tax as everyone else, they could fix the problem. They won't...

Apparently, the Roman empire collapsed after becoming so top that they could no longer pay their debts.

The economic decline of the Roman Empire was a key factor in its eventual collapse. Several interconnected economic issues played a significant role in weakening the empire over time:

1. Heavy Taxation

1. As the empire expanded and the military became more expensive to maintain, the government resorted to raising taxes to fund its defense and administrative apparatus. The tax burden grew heavier, especially for the lower classes, which led to widespread dissatisfaction and economic strain.
2. Many citizens and landowners struggled to keep up with the constant tax demands, which led to a decline in agricultural production and weakened the economy further. High taxes also contributed to the erosion of civic pride and loyalty to the state.

2. Inflation and Currency Devaluation

1. The Roman Empire faced severe inflation during its later years. The government began debasing the currency—reducing the silver content of coins in an attempt to produce more money. This inflationary policy devalued the currency, making it less reliable for trade and commerce.
2. As a result, the value of money dropped, prices skyrocketed, and the purchasing power of citizens decreased. This economic instability caused businesses to falter, trade to decline, and people to lose trust in the imperial economy.

3. Dependence on Slave Labor

1. The Roman economy was heavily dependent on slave labor, which was used for agriculture, construction, and many industries. However, as the empire’s expansion slowed, the supply of new slaves diminished.
2. Without a continuous influx of slaves from conquered territories, the labor force became strained, and economic output in agriculture and other sectors suffered. This shortage of labor, combined with a lack of innovation in labor-saving technologies, hampered economic growth.

4. Decline in Trade

1. As the empire’s borders became more difficult to defend and the economy weakened, trade routes were increasingly threatened by barbarian invasions and piracy. In the later years of the empire, economic connections between different regions of the empire broke down.
2. The disruption of trade reduced the flow of goods, resources, and wealth into the empire, which further contributed to the economic stagnation.

5. Overreliance on Provincial Wealth

1. Much of Rome’s wealth came from its provinces, which provided resources like grain, oil, and luxury goods. As the empire expanded, it increasingly relied on the provinces for tax revenue and raw materials.
2. However, many provinces, especially those in the western part of the empire, became economically weaker over time due to mismanagement, corruption, and the inability to sustain productivity. As these regions became less economically viable, Rome’s economy began to suffer.

6. Economic Inequality

1. As the empire grew, wealth became increasingly concentrated in the hands of a few elite families, while the majority of the population, including farmers and urban laborers, faced poverty.
2. The gap between the rich and the poor widened, leading to social unrest and a weakening of the economic base that had once supported the empire. Large estates owned by the wealthy elite also contributed to the displacement of small farmers, who could not compete with the vast, slave-driven estates, further damaging agricultural productivity.

7. Military Spending

1. The Roman Empire's military was a significant drain on its resources. As the empire faced more external threats, military spending skyrocketed. Maintaining a large army, particularly on the empire’s borders, was extremely costly.
2. The empire had to fund both defense and expansion efforts, which drained financial resources and contributed to the growing debt. In times of crisis, the empire relied on heavy borrowing, which led to even more financial strain.

8. Decline of Urban Centers

1. As the empire’s economic stability eroded, urban centers that had been hubs of commerce and culture began to decline. Many cities suffered from depopulation, which reduced tax revenues and economic activity.
2. With fewer resources to invest in infrastructure, public works, and civic life, the quality of life in many cities deteriorated, which in turn affected the economy as a whole.

In Summary:

The economic decline of the Roman Empire was driven by a combination of high taxation, inflation, reliance on slave labour, a weakened trade network, and an overburdened military. These economic stresses, coupled with rising inequality and the decline of key provinces, contributed to the gradual weakening of the empire, setting the stage for its eventual collapse.

Hard to overstate how much damage Trump has done to America in such a short period of time.

"Hard to overstate how much damage Trump has done to America in such a short period of time."

Indeed . . . and this is just the start . . .

Russia, Cuba, Belarus and North Korea exempted from tariffs as already sanctioned

Trump just slapped tariffs on pretty much the whole world, except: Russia, Cuba, Belarus and North Korea. / bne IntelliNews

By bne Berlin bureau April 3, 2025

US President Donald Trump dropped a tariffs bomb on the whole world on “Liberation Day” by imposing sanctions on every country the US trades with – with very few notable exceptions. Russia, Cuba, Belarus and North Korea were exempted, but not Ukraine or Israel.

“The current sanctions against these four countries are quite strict, and the introduction of additional trade measures is not currently being considered,” White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt explained the decision in comments to Axios.

The tariffs include a blanket 10% minimum duty on most imported goods and a 25% levy on all foreign cars, effective April 3. However, countries already under heavy US sanctions – including Russia, Belarus, Cuba, and North Korea – have been excluded from the new trade measures as the White House considers the current sanctions regimes in place sufficiently robust, Leavitt said.

US tariffs imposed on Russia would be almost useless, as the trade turnover between the two fell to a mere $3.8bn in 2024 out of total exports of $417bn. The US imported $3bn of Russian goods, or 0.72% of Russia’s total exports.

Still, Leavitt warned that the Kremlin should not assume it is off the hook permanently, saying that “Russia may still face additional strong sanctions” in the future.

Trump is reportedly getting frustrated at the slow pace of progress in the ceasefire talks that kicked off in Riyadh on February 18, and threw his weight behind a sanctions bill that impose up to 500% secondary tariffs on any country that trades with Russia, floated in a bi-partisan effort earlier this week if Russian President Vladimir Putin refuses to sign off on the mooted 30-day ceasefire deal currently on the table.

Presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov said at the weekend the talks were close to collapse. Kirill Dmitriev, a member of the negotiating team and head of Russia’s sovereign wealth fund, is currently in Washington on April 3 for talks with Special Envoy to the Middle East Steve Witkoff to try and break the deadlock.

Canada and Mexico are also spared from the latest tariff package due to the 25% import duties the US had imposed on them in previous trade actions.

Surprisingly, Ukraine and Iran were included in the tariff regime but were hit with the minimum 10% tariff rate respectively. However, the US ran a trade surplus with Ukraine in 2024 and had negligible trade with Iran, apart from imported rugs and pistachios. ?

The trade turnover between the United States and Ukraine totalled approximately $2.87bn in 2024, comprising $1.68bn in US exports to Ukraine and $1.19bn in imports from Ukraine. ?However, Trump has complained about the billions of dollars the US has poured into supporting Ukraine over the last three years and is trying to recoup some of what was spent.

Between February 2022 and December 2024, the US allocated approximately $182.8bn to Ukraine as military and financial support, out of which a bit less than $100bn was actually delivered.

The new tariffs, unveiled on April 2, reflect President Trump’s renewed push for what he has described as a “fair trade reset,” aimed at boosting domestic manufacturing and closing the trade deficit. The imposition of a universal 10% duty marks a significant shift from previous targeted measures, indicating a broader, more aggressive protectionist stance.

Markets are now closely watching for retaliatory measures from major trading partners and further clarification on how exemptions – especially for sanctioned states – might evolve in the coming months.

https://www.intellinews.com/russia-cuba-belarus-and-north-korea-exempted-from-tariffs-as-already-sanctioned-374864/

Hush money, J6, crippled world economy......no traction with Putin.....where does it stop!?

Watched him on telly this morning...... "It's going very well" he said.

Reminds me of 'Rome was burning while Nero was playing his fiddle'

I like America, I dislike America under Trump.

My fear is that he'll sink the country.

Not convinced it would have been the same or worse under the pretender, Hariss.

So Jaguar/Landrover is halting shipments to the US for a month. They manufacture zero of their products in the US and get 25% of their sales in the US. Jaguar is aggressively switching into electric with very strange prospective new models.

That captures to a lesser degree the problems facing many auto makers. The industry was in plenty of trouble already with the change to electrification. The tariffs on top could put a few under.

The lost jobs all over the world will fuel new political movements

Andrew Neill who is about as right wing as they come in the UK points out how nuts it is for America who basically built the worlds economic system and designed its rules now complains they are getting screwed by it.

America (especially) and the rest of traditionally Democratic countries have a working-class problem—it's growing while the middle class is shrinking. This is a barometer of long-term success, more than annual GDP growth.

China's manufacturing ability gets better by the day, and they are eating into areas like cars that were previously all from Democratic countries.

So, something has to change. A far more prudent approach would have been to make an agreement with partner countries for a fixed rate of tariffs to protect local industry (Products and services).

Trump's approach is a disaster. He is not being guided by financial experts, instead, he has minions working for him.

The shareholders will turn on Trump as it will initially impact them. However, downstream, the impact could be layoffs in America (and other countries). It is not as if factories are going to be built in America overnight.

This is something that requires a long-term plan agreed by all parties because if the working class become the majority, they are going to overthrow the established mainstream government (left or right) with more extreme options like far left or far right.

Many of the people supporting the far right are the poorest, so it is more than ideology or social beliefs.

It is the working class banding together against the establishment, hence why someone like Trump was voted in to begin with.

Imports are immigration without people moving. The mass of poorer people is an irresistible force under the rules of Democracy, it swept away South Africa as we knew it, and it changes economic welfare in Western countries. Ultimately because of interdependency it will give a country like China a veto over Western life.

The hope has always been that these poorer exporting countries will develop a middle class and become more like us. It hasn’t happened in China. India is a more comfortable partner, but their infrastructure challenges are massive.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/apr/04/donald-trump-tariffs-ai-hallucination

extract:

There’s a scene in the very first episode of Yellowstone where the casino-owning Native American chief explains the basic financial logic of all casinos to an uncomfortable politician: “The gamblers’ money is like a river – flowing one way. Our way.” Oh no, hang on, wait … Not all casinos. In fact, it could be that when all is said and done, the historians looking for that one key fact to illustrate the eventual legacy of Donald Trump will not go with his two stunning presidential election wins. Instead, they’ll point out that in the 90s, he literally managed to bankrupt casinos. To repeat: this is a man who somehow contrived to bankrupt multiple casinos. Is he the guy to reshape the entire global economic order of the past century? Let’s find out! Either way, only 45 months of his presidency left to go.

America (especially) and the rest of traditionally Democratic countries have a working-class problem—it's growing while the middle class is shrinking. This is a barometer of long-term success, more than annual GDP growth.

Liberals have shapped the world as they have forced globalization to happen. yet, in spite of this, they keep struggling with consequences of their own organization.

The working class in the west has a problem with the western world. White working class people have a problem with themselves. A working class simply no longer belong to hte western world. A white person, developps rockets, vaccines, softwares, nuclear reactors etc Liberals do not even understand races and racism as they built it. People who live in the west and work working class jobs should move to places in the world where they belong, that is segmentation of space under liberal econoics. The west has grow too rich to keep hosting working class activity. It no longer pays enough to allow people to live in the lucury of the west. And it is increasingly correct for a larger set of jobs. Liberals have somehow accepted that people of a certain set of skills move to richer places of world. They can not come to terms with people of a certain set of skills moving to poor places of the world. Butcher houses are not built in the richer quarters of a town.

The hope has always been that these poorer exporting countries will develop a middle class and become more like us.

Becoming liberals? What an idea. Liberals are the last ones who want people to become like them. Liberalism is a system based on exclusion and this claim is like claiming that slave owners wanted slaves to become like them. In the US, people fought for slaves not to become like them, they fought for slaves to remain slaves.

Liberal countries are figthing China as China is turning too much alike them. 300 million Chineses are waiting to ascend to a middle class status and that would imbalance the world power distribution in terms of capitalization, in terms of mass market and such. Both sides know it, the liberal world is speeding the blending of Europe and the US into a large white entity and China knows it is not ready as the ascension of 300 millions Chinese to the middle class status will be met by war by liberal nations. At the moment, liberal nations are increasing their armament not to face Russia but to prepare the war against China.

"At a White House press conference, Trump rejected Brussels' “zero-for-zero” offer on car and industrial goods tariffs:

“No, it’s not enough… We have a deficit with the European Union of $350 billion and it’s gonna disappear fast.”

Trump said that deficit could be wiped out immediately if the EU buys an equivalent amount of U.S. energy:

“They can buy it… we can knock off $350 billion in one week.”

The ultimatum follows Trump’s announcement of 20% tariffs on the EU and minimum 10% tariffs on other trade partners, moves that have rocked global markets.

He also blasted the EU’s regulatory barriers, calling them “non-monetary tariffs” that block U.S. products through red tape and impossible standards."

Trump talking absolute bollocks again I see Draad.

Rebecca Hendin on Trump’s toxification of America – cartoon

He's certainly upsetting the status quo...

He's certainly upsetting the status quo...

Indeed though it seems crazy when the US benefited the most from the status quo.

Be abit like Liverpool who are 11 points ahead in the Premier League with 7 games to go asking for everyone's points to be reset including their own to make the end of the season more exciting.

"There is a chance things will come back to normal. There is also a chance countries like China may escalate."

They are escalating. Reciprocated tariffs, bans on poultry, suspending fentanyl cooperation, and...

Trump threatened an extra 50% yesterday and then followed through...totalling to 104%.

But China is not limiting this to a trade war. They're now partaking in a fully fledged financial war.

They know that Trump's aim is scare markets enough that they move away from risk and into US treasuries...ultimately forcing the Fed to cut rates.

So what does China do?

Have a look at the bond markets two days back...a massive green candle, something like 19bps if memory serves.

What happened?

China dumped $50 billion worth of US treasuries on the market....of which they still hold another $700 billion.

This forces interest rates back up so that a market flooded with treasuries is more inviting to buyers again.

Of course, that's not a game that China could sustain for very long because there does come a point where they end up shooting themselves in the foot.

China have also started weakening their currency against the US dollar. Another message to say that if you increase tariffs we'll just make the cost of our goods cheaper...because a Dollar is worth more in China this week than it was last week.

So, China is deploying a bunch of strategies.

For me, China have acted a touch too hastily. If you fire all your shots in the first five minutes of a battle, you have little/no ammo to achieve strategic goals in the longer term.

At this point, the US still have a good few aces up their sleeve while China have taken most of the swings they can.

Sure China could drop another $200 billion of US treasuries on the market, and that'll amount to greater short term pain, but it will be bought up...and then China are left with 33% less of something that took them a very long time to build up. It would be a massive foot shot.

Trumpanzees love shrieking "TDS" whenever anyone criticises their beloved master . . . but the real sufferers of "TDS" are those gullible half-wits who think Bozo has any business acumen or any understanding of economics.

All the AI & Chat Abc surely suggest that he's batshit ? He's responsible now for Japan, SKorea & China reaching out to each other. The Basil Fawlty of political leaders.

"ndeed though it seems crazy when the US benefited the most from the status quo.

Be abit like Liverpool who are 11 points ahead in the Premier League with 7 games to go asking for everyone's points to be reset including their own to make the end of the season more exciting."

No...a trade deficit is no benefit and neither is depending on imports for essential goods. Covid was an eyeopener.

TDS is 100% real.

One only needs to look at how Blo has been affected.

It's reaching retardation levels.

He despises, Trump, but it's literally all he can talk about.

When does one ever only talk about things or people you despise?

...when you have been mentally compromised by those things or people. That's when.

Imagine making 10 posts a day about someone you hate but still thinking your mind is functioning normally.

It's actually sad to watch.

Seriously Blo, you're not gonna change anybody's mind, nobody reads any of the articles you copy and paste...you know this, right?

Like, I hope you are aware the literally nobody reads any of it...not even the other Trump haters. You be lucky if they read 1/10th.

Really, you're only doing it to appease yourself

The question is, when you are partaking in such meaningless acts, so regularly, so openly, do you actually believe that what's happening in your mind is normal.

I promise you, it's not normal.

You need help boet.

Get some.

Of course, Elon Musk isn’t the only wingnut to own his own platform, so let’s play out with a genuine statement posted to Truth Social by the occupant of the Oval Office. “The United States has a chance to do something that should have been done DECADES AGO. Don’t be Weak! Don’t be Stupid! Don’t be a PANICAN (a new party based on Weak and Stupid people!). Be Strong, Courageous, and Patient, and GREATNESS will be a result”. Righto. Last week, Republican house speaker Mike Johnson declared: “You have to trust the president’s instincts on the economy, OK?” Do you trust in the instinct of the man who wrote the above word salad? Or do you, like rather a lot of people, find yourself slightly panican?

Marina Hyde is a Guardian columnist

No...a trade deficit is no benefit and neither is depending on imports for essential goods. Covid was an eyeopener.

Saying a trade deficit is not a benefit is overly simplistic, it's not inherently a good or bad thing. It's situational and involves trade offs.

As for importing essential goods, again pro's and con's. You can make the argument the US has become too dependent on imports and that could potentially compromise security and hence some local industries should be protected even if that causes prices to go up, but how far does the US want to go in this regard. Like it's probably possible for the US to achieve complete autarky (not saying they do) if it really wanted too but at the cost of a lower standard of living.

Agree Blob. Here's another article from the Financial Times that refers to Mike Johnson's ridiculous appeal:

We should trust in Donald Trump’s instincts, says Mike Johnson, Speaker of the House of Representatives. Alternatively, Johnson and his caucus should run screaming in the opposite direction. It is too late for Republicans to revert to being a normal party — belief in Trump is their organising principle. But they could play the loyalist by coaxing Trump off the ledge. In addition to their jobs, the future of the global economy, and every American’s retirement fund, depends on it.

Their task is complicated by the fact that Trump still thinks he is on to a winner. Try to stand in his shoes. From his 2011 Obama foreign birth conspiracy to his 2024 conviction as a felon, and so many points in between, Trump has almost annually been left for dead. But his phoenix keeps rising. Trump is a fantasist whose deepest-lodged fantasy — that he is an unstoppable champion — keeps coming true. Why would a little market turmoil stop him?

The starting point is that Trump is a hammer and the rest of the world, as well as half of America, is a nail. Sometimes the hammer can focus on select nails, or soften its blow, but he is always a hammer. That some of Trump’s closest backers, such as the New York hedge fund manager Bill Ackman, are surprised by his global tariff war is a mystery. Trump vowed in almost every single campaign speech to unleash the trade war we are now in.

He has been blaming foreigners for ripping off America since the mid-1980s. Note, his obsession was with Japan, not the Soviet Union. Trump has always been angriest with allies and friends. His deepest contempt is now reserved for Europe and Canada. Psychologists extrapolate from the estate settlement Trump tried to impose on his own siblings. If your instinct is to rip people off, including those closest to you, assume that is everyone’s method.

The mystery is why so many — from Ackman’s fellow billionaires to Florida-based Venezuelans — have bent over backwards to miss who Trump is. A trillion comments have been wasted accusing the wrong people of Trump derangement syndrome. The real TDS afflicts those who keep seeing a rational actor, or an economic chess game, where none exists. The whole market arguably suffers from this syndrome. Shortly after plummeting on Monday morning, a fake news release surfaced that said Trump would announce a pause on his tariffs this week. The markets more than erased their opening losses. All those gains, in turn, were wiped out when the White House issued a denial.

If an online meme can turn a bear market into a bull recovery in the space of a minute, and back again, Trump has the world in his palm. The merest rumour that he might be sane can trigger a buying frenzy. Roman emperors would envy the finger-crooking sway of one man. Yet at some point, possibly imminent, Trump could be forced to pause at least some of his “liberation day” duties. That will trigger a big relief rally. But his pause will be no surer than stray driftwood. The same might apply to his threats of a new 50 per cent tariff escalation on China.

Markets will cheer any hints of bilateral deals Trump plans to strike with more influential demandeurs — Japan, China and India should be closely watched. Investors should also pay heed to the fact that such deals will be struck between foreign governments and Trump personally, not his administration. The departments of Treasury, commerce and the US trade representatives are often out of the loop. Given the lack of boundary between Trump’s public role and private investments, the scope for non-trade-related bartering is great.

The idea that Trump’s impact will be limited to the goods-traded economy is also wishful thinking. Foreigners own a critical share of US Treasury debt. Continued high demand for an asset in whose issuer the world is losing trust is the difference between a Trump recession and a Trump depression. On this, Europe’s governments seem to have better instincts than the equity and fixed-income markets. Rather than escalate the trade war, the EU is mulling only a modest toolkit of retaliations. This is not because Brussels thinks Trump is likely to embrace comity. It is because it fears a tit-for-tat trade spiral will break the global financial system.

Either way, this teachable moment is needlessly belated. Trump’s sane-washers have forfeited their credibility. There is no school of foreign policy realism, or trade mercantilism, that could explain Trump’s actions. If you want to forecast the world, study his psychology. While Trump is in charge, stay short on America.

edward.luce@ft.com

Stav, it's simple arithmetic. If more flows out than comes back in, the country is getting poorer...but income from services should be part of that equation.

Stav, it's simple arithmetic. If more flows out than comes back in, the country is getting poorer...but income from services should be part of that equation.

As I said that's an overly simplistic argument.

What you seem to be missing is that when USD flow out of the US, invariable that USD gets reinvested back in the US as countries buy up US debt in the form of treasuries, be they Japanese, Chinese, UK or even Irish.

Aside from which even when running a trade deficit the US was not getting poorer, it was getting richer.

Yes US debt is increasing and long term that does need to be addressed, but Trump's plan appears to be making everything worse.

"What you seem to be missing is that when USD flow out of the US, invariable that USD gets reinvested back in the US as countries buy up US debt in the form of treasuries, be they Japanese, Chinese, UK or even Irish."

Yes, that's the whole problem. That is effectively borrowing money to make up for the deficit. That's why their debt is spiralling out of control and that's exactly why Trump is trying to fix it. It is exactly that simple.

But he's not going to fix it, he's going to make it worse.

"But he's not going to fix it, he's going to make it worse."

Here we go again, trying to pass off opinion as fact.

I can understand the Trumpanzees in America support Trump as it could bring back jobs to the US market.

However, why do people in other countries support him? These tariffs are going to cause a global recession and will have a negative impact on them. Yet these dolts love it.

The only possible explanation is that religious people genuinely believe that Trump was sent by God.

So he can do no wrong....The religious love this authoritarian strong man style leader, they are just not Democratic people who want to think for themselves.

Snark, if things continues like they've been doing the last decade or two, America will implode and collapse the world economy with it...if tariffs prevents the golden goose from being killed, then I'm prepared to suffer a bit in the short term.

However, why do people in other countries support him? These tariffs are going to cause a global recession and will have a negative impact on them. Yet these dolts love it.

The only possible explanation is that religious people genuinely believe that Trump was sent by God.

So he can do no wrong....The religious love this authoritarian strong man style leader, they are just not Democratic people who want to think for themselves.

Trump is a more or less a representation of their entire ideology and they have invested too much into it at point to back out. It's very easy to support a populist in another country because normally what they say and do doesn't have much of a direct impact on their lives or a small enough impact that it could ignored or explained away by some other factors. They can just revel in Trump annoying the libs.

First time around Trump's more outlandish and nutty policies were restrained by having some competent people around him to reign him in. This time around the guard rails are off and Trump is now completely unconstrained fee to enact whatever policies he wants. But if things continue like this the negatives will become impossible to ignore for all but the most ideological devoted where admitting they got it wrong is a nearly a faith worse than death.

Snark, if things continues like they've been doing the last decade or two, America will implode and collapse the world economy with it...if tariffs prevents the golden goose from being killed, then I'm prepared to suffer a bit in the short term.

The Goose putting a gun to its head, pulling the trigger and spraying everyone else with blood, brain matter and feathers is not going fix things.

Out of curiosity, how long is short term for you?

A couple of months, a year, two years, five years, ten years?

‘At the moment there is no trade with China, that is the moment Taiwan will be taken by force’….Rand Paul. Eloquently said and pointing to a little discussed fact, without our economic ties political behavior will be very different.

So, many wise men want to punt, ignore the warts keep going and eventually they will recognize our system is best. But unfortunately there is almost no evidence that’s true. Yes Albania has opened it’s beaches but China and Russia remain 19th century countries.

‘Tariffs are rapidly morphing into a reevaluation of our relationships around the world. Differences are being surfaced, hidden antipathies coming to the surface. It’s a dangerous time

Amrerica maks up 15% of the global market. Dont overrate them. Sure Big Tech is ahead, but their other products are not much different than the rest of the world

. The damage they are doing, it would be better to just exclude them from the global economy than accept their terms.

Dealing with Trump, is like dealing with a mob boss. The MAGA base will only understand when they start losing their jobs

"Out of curiosity, how long is short term for you?"

Less than a year, probably way less than 6 months...he's trolling your hysterics and you're falling for it every time...he's on the right side of the big issues every time.

Less than a year, probably way less than 6 months...he's trolling your hysterics and you're falling for it every time...he's on the right side of the big issues every time.

Yes hysterics, trillions wiped off the stock market, the dollar dropping value and a sell off in US treasuries.

This isn't the art of the deal, this is not Donald Trump playing 4D chess, this is simply Donald Trump being a f**king moron who's been forced into a humiliating retreat.

The Trumpanzee species worship their master. He can do not wrong.

If it does xyz, it is great. Then, if he stops doing xyz, it is great...

azxcvbn

.

.

The Penguins are relieved....

I've said before that what makes Bozo so dangerous is he's so conceited that he thinks he knows better than his adviers. This whole trariff shambles is another example.

Bozo's advisers warned him that his tariffs could wreck the economy but the vain, bungling idiot pressed ahead anyway, resulting in trillions of dollars being wiped off the stock exchange and the average retirement package in the USA being reduced by over $100 000.

Only after Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent and Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick showed a but of spine and presented a united fromt to Bozo, explaining how stupid and reckless he was being, did Bozo finally relent . . . and now - because the incompetent fool is incapable of admitting he was wrong about anything - he's trying to pretend it was all planned.

So let's hear from our resident Trumpanzees . . . are you lot so stupid and gullible that you believe this latest nonsense about it being all planned or are you willing to admit your hero screwed up and is the last person who should be entrusted with running an economy?

You have more of a chance squeezing water out of stone than getting an honest admission from the Trump Puppets.

Their cult hero is never wrong. You know it, we all know it.

Nicely put by SharkBok.....If it does xyz, it is great. Then, if he stops doing xyz, it is great...

Never thought I'll see the day when the stock market is treated like a soccer ball.

But then again all things are possible going by his now famous mantra..."Bet you haven't seen this before"

What an egotistic, arrogant and narcissistic blithering buffoon.

"So let's hear from our resident Trumpanzees . . . are you lot so stupid and gullible that you believe this latest nonsense about it being all planned or are you willing to admit your hero screwed up and is the last person who should be entrusted with running an economy?"

A stony, sullen silence ensues . . .

Liberal economics, all a story. Just a few for the road: USD lfowing out of the US, making the US poorer, could be if the US was not mere bits on a hard disk and virtually in unlimited supplies. The US trade deficit should be solved by other people as they are coerced in consuming more in order to match US consumption rate. The very idea that the US could solve their trade deficit by consuming lass is out of the question. The US way of life is hallowed and therefore it is the duty of other people to empoverish themselves so WeThePeople can maintain their high rate of consumption.

Liberals are blasting their own liberal economics tenets, it is incredible. It is one of these things that ensures they will have to get rid of hundreds of millions of people around the world as they have been forcing those same economical tenets on countries, pushing them in deeper povery so they could enrich themselves.

“No, it’s not enough… We have a deficit with the European Union of $350 billion and it’s gonna disappear fast.”

Trump said that deficit could be wiped out immediately if the EU buys an equivalent amount of U.S. energy:

“They can buy it… we can knock off $350 billion in one week

The most notable factor in all this is that all the liberal economics priests are keeping quiet while their hallowed theology is being battered down by the US as the US now feel the tenets no longer serve them. Very funny as liberal economics appear for what it is: the will of the strong extorting the weak, the rich farming the poor. All mathematical formulas are just sugar coating the stuff as shown by the formula given by the US government about the trade deficit dresed as tariffs. The EU importing that much energy to do what but to ramp up their own production of goods and therefore flood the US market with them, making the trade deficit worse? Or maybe Trump suggests that the EU cancels their energy deals with other countries to make room for the US, opting for the very unreliable US partner? Drivel, after drivel, nothing to worry about though, white people self declare as the most intelligent part in humanity so....

Talk about a V shaped recovery.

Ben Jennings on Trump’s tariffs pause –

I

Shame the TDS groupies are besides themselves.

GREAT.

Arfur, are you in favour of Trump's shocking treatment of your beloved Canada &/or are you keen to be a member of the 51st State of the USA ??

I hope everybody bought some Apple and Tesla

Liberals are now used to pick up the consequences of their actions they want to live by. As an effect, they speak liberately, without measuring any consequences of their words. That is how they are so unreliable.

So the narrative is that DJT has pushed the world where he wanted it to be. The art of the deal. Taking this as the hypothesis. The Trump adminstration has distorted the trade balance issue by deliberately removing services from the data sheet. it is only about goods. When services are included, the trade imbalance between the EU and the US amounts to 50 billions dollars. Without services, 350 billions dolalrs or something. The EU for various reasons has been unable to correct Trump's trick and has been talking on Trump's terms. The EU has adopted Trump's lie on the reality of the EU US trade relationship. So now Trump (in order to dismiss the EU offer he knows will work against the US industry since it has fallen behind, a zero for zero tariff relationship will only strengthen the EU contries wichi already strong industrial capabilities like Germany or Italy.) Trump says the EU must consume 350 billiios worth of energy. Once put back in the full picture of the trade relationship, Trump advocates for the EU to accept a 300 billions trade deficit when services are once again factored in. Moving the imbalance slider from 50 billions to 300 billions. That is the art of the deal. The US was screwed by the EU because of a 50 billions imbalance, of course, the EU will not be screwed by a 300 billions imbalance. Can anyone spell malevolence?

Haha did anybody react any of the unintelligible horse kak?

lol he thinks people actually ready it

whahahahaha

Stav, it's simple arithmetic. If more flows out than comes back in, the country is getting poorer

Kolsmanskop incoming. Victimhood is so high among liberals they feel the urge to distort a basic observation.

Money is debt. Money is a social covenant that lives up to the expectation of being redeemed later. As long as it is not done,people who have money in their pockets and trade goods or whatever against it are empoverisdhed. Money is postponed consumption that relies on the promise consumption is going to be doable in the future.

As it does not stop here, because people buy a special kind of debt that is supposed to allow greater consumption in the future, it is more postponed consumption. People wait hoping they will be able to consume more in the future than if they redeem right now the money they got from trading.

In a finite environment. It is over. And that is what the US are fighting, the prospect of people who are not supposed to consume, consuming right now. Which is the opportunity given by China to a large part of the world.

So no, the US have not been empoverished by their trade deficit, they have been enriched, trading immediate consumption against postponed consumption in a finite environment. So in the future, when people come to redeeom their money debt, they will find out that is too little left to consume (inflation) or even nothing left to consume.

Kolsmankop incoming. Places like Kolsmankop run a trade excednet until the point the area is depleted of anything to export and when it happens, people move away in order to redeem the debt they have accumulated. Except that globalization works on a global level. Hundreds of millions to be killed.

"Haha did anybody react (sic) any of the unintelligible horse kak?

lol he thinks people actually ready (sic) it"

Who is going to tell ButtPlug that no-one reads his unintelligible hogwash either?

I'd volunteer but if I do, it will just result in a lot of indignant and self-righteous foot-stamping.

Say Buttplug....quick, fix your typos before your Master gets back........alternately you can suck-up even more.

"Haha did anybody react (sic) any of the unintelligible horse kak?

lol he thinks people actually ready (sic) it"

Poor old Donnie has hopelessly exposed himself as a thug a bully, there is no Art of the Deal and if there is then it's all about bullying the opposition. Outside of America economically strong nations refuse to be intimidated.

He failed with North Korea, Kim Junk Pong laughed at him and that in front of a worldwide audience, Putin is playing him with disdain and Xi is another standing toe to toe.

The man is a Loser.....he's got nothing ...einde.

USA standing in the world will sadly suffer because of Trump.

Less than a year, probably way less than 6 months...he's trolling your hysterics and you're falling for it every time...he's on the right side of the big issues every time.

Not a hysteric more of a jubilant yet, this must be specifically termed, what is going to happen in six months or more and what is going to be good. Liberals play all sides so they pick anything that happened and they paint as good. No doubt that in six months stuff will have happened that liberals could claim as good.

Even now, liberals state that all goes according to the plan that all is well and dandy. The problem is that while it was easy to predict that the stock market would suffer, the bonds market was probably more expected to absorb the shock as it usually does. Except that in a rare occurrence, it has gone down. The FED had the potential to save the day but could not do it for various reasons. In all likelihood, the Trump administration was taken by surprise and had to cave in as a result. Yet liberals keep painting the situation as good when it went out of control. Making Trump on the wrong side of things. With that in mind, it requires to be specific: what is going to be good in six months in order to avoid liberals doing liberal things, that is painting everything that can be pained good good. Predictions here and not a vague statement that in six months the Eerth will keep revolving.

Yaaaay Plum doesn't care to edit.

We found something, finally.

Feel better now, Denise.

"Denish is a tospot"

...okay, left another couple of typos in the above. It's Friday after all, and I know you need a lil sumin sumin to help you get by, Denise.

Hysteria Is amazing Vaccine posts and within 12 minutes Hysteria appears looking for something, anything, from the loser Vaccine. And Vaccine just can’t do it, after 20 years of insulting the girl, it just doesn’t come naturally.

Funny stuff.

Liberals are indeed very funny. Been reading a bit around, they have a hard time coming to terms with the Trump adminstration's impreparation, they think of themselves as almighty and can not get it that the situation went out of control and Trump had to back down. The US have shown weakness.

.

.

LOL, the opening monologue of that video.

Interesting perspective by somebody actually understanding what's going on...pity the lefties won't have the stomach to watch it.

Yeah I'll watch it when I have time, just had a chuckle at the opening jokes.

Interesting perspective by somebody actually understanding what's going on...pity the lefties won't have the stomach to watch it.

When you say somebody actually understanding what's going on, why do you say that...why is his understanding more credible than other businessmen and economists.

Is it because his take on the situation aligns with your views?

I'll wager he understands way more than you.

Oh what a surprise, you can't answer the question.

The likes of Draad take financial advice from people with no background in the field.

He would ask a plumber to complete heart surgery on him, and a botanist to fix his car.

The people in that video look backward.

This laughable. Trump has apparently just removed Chinese tariffs from products that America import the most. (Big Tech)

Something like 30%+ of imports are now exempt from the tariffs he created.

Apple phones would have increased by 145% for Americans.....

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/business/money-report/trump-exempts-phones-computers-chips-from-new-tariffs/3720882/

U.S. Announces Reciprocal Tariff Exemptions for Chinese Smartphones, Computers, and Integrated Circuits

Summary by Category:

I said on a previous thread that reshoring jobs is a medium to long-term thing, and it will not always be practical. It is impossible to break a supply chain overnight.

Trump is a good marketer and salesperson but knows nothing about macroeconomics.

A Democratic government is a committee of experts with the leader steering the ship to get the best mix of consensus. Trump has surrounded himself with sycophantic amateurs who will let him make all the decisions.

Big Tech defeats Small MAGA....

Sharlkbok

Shitspreading is easy or you and comes natuarally has the top scientific an econmic exoertsa in his team and he known exatly what e ats and will get it, He wants propert trade a greements and has gven the EU and t he EU to meet and arrnage for the copletion of proper trade agreements in place. Unlike the Biden sh it knws exactl how to fix the declining and collapsing US economy,

Sharlkbok

Shitspreading is easy or you and comes natuarally has the top scientific an econmic exoertsa in his team and he known exatly what e ats and will get it, He wants propert trade a greements and has gven the EU and t he EU to meet and arrnage for the copletion of proper trade agreements in place. Unlike the Biden sh it knws exactl how to fix the declining and collapsing US economy,

"Oh what a surprise, you can't answer the question."

I did, you just didn't like the answer.

Stav, are you in any Cryptos?

You seem like you would be.

Stav, note that Squeaky Toy (aka Draad) isn't the shiniest coin in the fountain.

Rooidrol...I'm still smarter than you lefties...not that that's a feat...

I did, you just didn't like the answer.

Did I ask you if he understands more than me?. I asked why you think he has a better understanding than other businessmen and economists and by that I mean the overwhelming majority of them who think Trump's tariff plan is extremely bad for both the US and world economy in general.

I'm going take the fact you evaded by answering a different question as confirmation that you only said that he's someone who actually understands what's going on because he offered a take that aligns with what you want to believe.

Stav, are you in any Cryptos?

You seem like you would be.

Nope. Not my thing.

"Nope. Not my thing."

Must say, I'm surprised.

Not even interested in the technology?

Crypto is a pyramid scheme. The way to make money from it is to short sell.

As the crash happens, sell it all.

Then, when Crypto hits rock bottom, use 50% of your earnings to buy more.

Rinse and repeat...

Although the crash happens so suddenly, it is more likely the inside traders will be the ones who benefit the most.

Must say, I'm surprised.

Not even interested in the technology?

To be honest I've never looked into it in any depth, never really understood the point of it and it did come across as sounding like a scam to me, so I just tuned out. Did the same when I heard about NFT's.

I know was Cryto mining boom drove up the price of GPU's like crazy a few years back when I was looking to buy one but it balanced it out by the fact I was able to sell my old GPU for well above its normal value.

I heard some recent suggestions that part of Trump's economic theory is that he wants to de-value the dollar to make American exports more competitive but doesn't want other countries to spend all their dollars they have got from selling to the US buying other currency and potentially seeing the dollar lose its reserve currency status and that he was trying to push them into instead buying various crypto currencies which are then backstopped by a so called stable coin which is backed by the US dollar. A sort of have his cake and eat it approach I've no idea how credible any of those suggestions were.

"Did I ask you if he understands more than me?. I asked why you think he has a better understanding than other businessmen and economists and by that I mean the overwhelming majority of them who think Trump's tariff plan is extremely bad for both the US and world economy in general."

How many of the other economists and businessmen aires? And did you even bother to listen the whole thing or did you just assume he was for tariffs because I posted the video?...which he was not...what in particular of what he said do you not agree with?

The point of Crypto is a distributed ledger allowing for faster and more secure transactions...eradicating the double-spend problem.

EG, I can transact anything with you, with little to no need for any middle-man.

TLDR - Be your own bank.

Of course, secure transactions don't refer only to monetary matters. Contract signing, data security, communications...blockchain solves a ridiculous amount of problems.

Hence my surprise that you're not interested in the technology.

One thing I'm sure you'll find interesting is D-Pin.

"Dpin (short for Decentralized Physical Infrastructure Networks) refers to a type of distributed computing framework where computing resources (like storage, processing power, or internet access) are provided by individuals or companies and coordinated via a blockchain.

In this model:

1. Compute providers (anyone with extra capacity) contribute their resources.
2. Blockchain smart contracts handle tasks like verifying work, managing payments, and coordinating demand and supply.
3. Users can request compute jobs, storage, or bandwidth, and pay with tokens.

Dpin turns physical infrastructure into an open, permissionless marketplace, allowing decentralized alternatives to cloud giants like AWS or Azure. Projects like Akash Network (decentralized cloud compute), Helium (decentralized wireless), and Filecoin (decentralized storage) are key examples.

In essence: Dpin = Uber or Airbnb for physical infrastructure, run by code on blockchain."

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits,"

Albert Einstein

Indeed.

It is incredible. The Trump administration has been bailing out its own plan in a very spectacular way that leaves no doubt about its quality. It shows how much liberal minds are bent to being administrated, they are addicted to the statu apparatus and can not figure things out by themselves unless they receive a state note that a situation is such. The Trump administration wanted to bully the world, they threatened the world, had to withdraw their threats by themselves and now as it is not enough, the Trump adminstration is conceding.

The Trump adminsitration has been dismantling their own lies one after the other. You do not even have to understand economics to see it, all it take is to check how the US have been acting and see how they fail to apply what they imply.

Globalization has been very bad to the US so they say. A big lie as the US have been the big winners of globalization as it has allowed them in the american way of life and their high level of consumption. Trump removed the tarriffs on phones and computers. US citizens flocking on TV screens to say it is a relief, they are going to be able to consume as much as they used to. There is nothing to be added.

They are bailing out of their failed plan.

It has never been about tariffs, never been about globaliazation being bad with the US. it has been about the high level of consumption the US have been allowed thanks to globalization and how the US are now afraid it will end sooner than later. If they were that interested in the trade deficit they had, thinking it empowerished them instead of enriched them, they just have to consume less to decrease the trade deficit. It is the core issue.

Interesting perspective by somebody actually understanding what's going on...pity the lefties won't have the stomach to watch it.

It takes indeed a lot of guts and time to be wasted on listening to him. For the minutes that were allocated to his musings, this guy does not speak of the situation as it is but instead, prefers to speak of an imaginory situation, a situation that does not exist. Like liberals, he fails to edress the situation as it is, he prefers something else. And he also sounds like a lefite, with its infrastructure thing, his affordable housing, his well paid vocational paid jobs etc There is nothin in it.

‘But trade experts say the economic relationship between Europe and China is rooted in a decades-old reality: a Chinese marketplace that is effectively closed to many European companies because of regulatory burdens and the Communist Party’s buttressing of Chinese companies. The European trade deficit with China was nearly $332 billion (€292 billion) in 2023.

The E.U. leadership describes China as a “a systemic rival,” and relations with the Asian nation have soured in recent years for a host of reasons, including China’s support of Russia as it wages war on Ukraine.

……

So America is the bad actor, but we have provided substantial support for the Ukraine, more of a European issue. And we run a $ 160 billion trade deficit with Europe, offset by a $70 billion services surplus. Let alone our huge investment in NATO which protects mainly Europe.

China is supporting Russia in it’s Ukraine adventure and has a $330 billion surplus with Europe.

And yet, ‘the Yanks’ are the bad guys and those nice Communist leaders are so much more acceptable. The human mind has an amazing capacity to delude itself.

If the tariffs aren’t settled, Europe’s relationship with China will rapidly become more disruptive.

Liberals know about delusion. NATO is meant to protect first and foremest the US's interests. Many of the wars waged under the umbrealla of NATO were to serve the US's best interests first, quite often lately at the expense of european nations as the US destabilized areas close to the European nations that felt the price of them directly. The massive waves of migration pushed by US wars moved first toward Europe before hitting the US, the war on drugs that organized countries like Afgahnaistan etc

Second point, there has been a change in leadership. No matter the support China provided to Russia (which is more alike to a non opposition to Russia than support, just as so much of the rest of the world), the current change in direction in the US leadership is more effective at supporting Russia than China has been. It is the goal by the way as the US want to rally Russia in their war against China.

The Trade deficit is another byproduct of the unconditional support the EU has provided the US with, without having the monopoly of emitting the world currency. The current reaction of the US about the trade deficitis that it is dissolving the monopoly they had on the world currency, many countries around the world were able to capture large amount of the US flow as the US flooded the world with it. It means they are now in a position to keep a USD based economy running for some time without relying on the US to supply them with it. Which is bad news. The tariff farce has pushed the entire world to acknowledge the situation, a large segment of humanity will be better off iwhen they trade less and less with the US. That is by the way what the US want to avoid. Tackling their trade deficit has a direct and efficient solution: reducing their trade with the rest of the world. If they do this, the US will provide the rsst of the world with the room the rest of the world want to get.

TheTraditionalistSenior player

3,281 posts

Apr 14, 2025, 17:04

Liberals know about delusion. NATO is meant to protect first and foremest the US's interests. Many of the wars waged under the umbrealla of NATO were to serve the US's best interests first, quite often lately at the expense of european nations as the US destabilized areas close to the European nations that felt the price of them directly.

……

Give us some examples of where NATO (not just the US) did this

There is no example as they are already known and therefore denied.

NATO strategic means moving eastwards despite promises they would not move past a certain limit. That move made Russia feel insecure as the words they had secured were bashed over and over again. It came with a couple of wars in order to advance NATO strategic means eastwards, closer to Russia's borders.

So America is the bad actor, but we have provided substantial support for the Ukraine, more of a European issue

Yes provided substantial aid under a previous administration. The current administration has no interest in providing additional aid, it appears more interested in extorting Ukraine and pushing for a settlement that is not in Ukraine's interests and compromises it's and by extension Europe's security.

. And we run a $ 160 billion trade deficit with Europe, offset by a $70 billion services surplus

For the umpteenth time a trade deficit is not necessarily a bad thing. If there is imbalances then try to work them out diplomatically first before and if you're still unable to make progress maybe then consider economic pressure, not just go straight for lobbing economic nuclear missiles.

Let alone our huge investment in NATO which protects mainly Europe

The US freely chooses to spend more on its military to maintain it's military dominance. The vast majority of the US's militarily asset's are located in the US and the has double the military presence in South East Asia than it does in Europe.

Europe has spent $1.4 Trillion over the last 10 years buying US military equipment and America has on several occasions in the past push back at Europe pushing for greater military autonomy and independence. It feared loosing influence.

China is supporting Russia in it’s Ukraine adventure and has a $330 billion surplus with Europe.

And yet, ‘the Yanks’ are the bad guys and those nice Communist leaders are so much more acceptable.

You do understand it's possible to have more than one bad actor right? Even Japan and South Korea have spoken about working with China. But that doesn't mean they or the EU are going in with their eyes blind. The EU has already said it's set up a task force to monitor for dumping while the Chinese have said they may be willing to agree on minimum pricing on electric cars, something the EU has wanted for a long time.

The human mind has an amazing capacity to delude itself.

Like a delusion that starting a massive trade war would have no negative consequences or pushback from those attacked and that everyone would just cave.

If the tariffs aren’t settled, Europe’s relationship with China will rapidly become more disruptive.

Trump needs to drop this batshit tariff plan before he puts the entire world into a recession.

Go ahead then Traditional….name the wars NATO has waged which were entirely in US interest.

U.S. Aid to Ukraine in 2025

1. Total Aid Since 2022: As of early 2025, the U.S. has committed over $66.5 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since the onset of Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022. ?U.S. Department of Defense+1Malay Mail+1
2. Aid Suspension and Resumption: In March 2025, President Donald Trump temporarily suspended military aid and intelligence sharing with Ukraine, citing dissatisfaction with Ukraine's commitment to peace negotiations with Russia. However, this suspension was lifted later that month following ceasefire discussions in Saudi Arabia, and aid deliveries resumed.

……

The United States maintains a significant military presence in Europe, with approximately 100,000 U.S. troops stationed across the continent as of 2025. This deployment has increased notably since Russia's invasion of Ukraine in 2022 and is considered vital for NATO's deterrence posture and rapid response capabilities. ?AP News

While exact figures for the total cost of maintaining U.S. forces in Europe are not publicly disclosed, estimates from previous years provide some insight. In 2018, the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) estimated that U.S. defense expenditures in Europe ranged between $30.7 billion and $36.0 billion, accounting for approximately 5.1% to 5.5% of the total U.S. defense budget at that time. Given the increased troop levels and heightened operational activities in recent years, current expenditures are likely higher.?IISS

A significant portion of this funding is allocated through the European Deterrence Initiative (EDI), a program designed to enhance U.S. military readiness and infrastructure in Europe. The EDI focuses on five key areas: increased presence, exercises and training, enhanced prepositioning, improved infrastructure, and building partnership capacity. Since its inception in 2014, the EDI's budget has grown from $1 billion to over $3.4 billion by 2017, reflecting the U.S. commitment to European security. ?Wikipedia+1Department of Defense+1

Despite discussions within the U.S. administration about potential troop reductions, bipartisan consensus in Congress supports maintaining current force levels in Europe. Lawmakers emphasize that a robust U.S. military presence is crucial for deterring aggression and ensuring the security of NATO allies. ?AP News+1The Guardian+1

In summary, while precise current costs are not publicly available, maintaining U.S. forces in Europe represents a substantial investment, likely exceeding previous estimates, and remains a cornerstone of U.S. and NATO defense strategy in the region.?

Sources

Chronic trade deficits between developed nations should be resolved over time by both the surplus and deficit countries. That’s standard economic theory along with the theory of comparative advantage.

So give us some examples of efforts Europe has made prior to 2025, to narrow the trade balance. Quote a few European leaders stressing the importance of doing so.

And FFS:

’It feared loosing influence.’

For the umpteenth time it’s ‘losing’ influence. How many times do I have to tell you this.

Why don't you take legal action against everyone who makes a spelling mistake, Moffie? You can be the "plaintive" (sic).

LMAO!

Don't go slipping on a banana "peal" (sic) again, you ignorant hypocrite.

1. Total Aid Since 2022: As of early 2025, the U.S. has committed over $66.5 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since the onset of Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022. ?U.S. Department of Defense+1Malay Mail+1
2. Aid Suspension and Resumption: In March 2025, President Donald Trump temporarily suspended military aid and intelligence sharing with Ukraine, citing dissatisfaction with Ukraine's commitment to peace negotiations with Russia. However, this suspension was lifted later that month following ceasefire discussions in Saudi Arabia, and aid deliveries resumed.

Yes nothing we didn't know. With the exception of aid provide to Ukraine during Trump's first term which did prove useful in the opening few weeks of the full scale war in 2022 all other aid was approved by the Biden administration, including a package that was delayed by Republican's at Trump's beckoning.

The bulk of the last aid approved aid package approved by Biden was already dispatched to Ukraine. Trump initially allowed the remaining portion of it to be sent, then blocked it, then resumed it.

Just today Trump has said he doesn't even want to sell weapons to Ukraine.

In summary, while precise current costs are not publicly available, maintaining U.S. forces in Europe represents a substantial investment, likely exceeding previous estimates, and remains a cornerstone of U.S. and NATO defense strategy in the region.?

That so called cornerstone is now strongly being called into question. Europe is already under attack, and the US under the Trump administration has effectively said good luck lads, you're on your own.

Chronic trade deficits between developed nations should be resolved over time by both the surplus and deficit countries. That’s standard economic theory along with the theory of comparative advantage.

So give us some examples of efforts Europe has made prior to 2025, to narrow the trade balance. Quote a few European leaders stressing the importance of doing so.

Resolved over time...maybe someone should of told Trump that. And maybe tell him he doesn't need to put tariffs on countries that the US had a trade surplus with.

Why should it be up to Europe to fix America's problems. If they have a problem, then negotiate with countries and then maybe it can be resolved over time, if not you can gradually ramp up pressure in targeted ways.

For the umpteenth time it’s ‘losing’ influence. How many times do I have to tell you this.

You can always tell Moz is doesn't have an argument when he goes all spelling Nazi.

Be my guest, if you want to go on using ‘loosing’ instead of losing. You do it often. As for your rebuttals, they aren’t convincing. The US has provided and continues to provide substantial aid to the Ukraine. And NATO probably preserved Europe when the Soviet Union was dominating eastern Europe all the way to Berlin.

Why should Europe be involved in fixing the deficits, well I use the term collectively, each individual country in Europe should be doing that….it’s a basic of free trade. I can think of no serious effort to do that,

US military aid for Ukraine is about to cease. Is Europe ready?

David Shimer

Putin is planning for this war to continue. That leaves two key questions for Ukraine’s European allies

1. David Shimer was the director for eastern Europe and Ukraine on Joe Biden’s National Security Council

Mon 14 Apr 2025 13.00 BST

184

The war between Russia and Ukraine is approaching a historic turning point: unless the Trump administration adjusts course, US military aid for Ukraine is about to cease.

In the months before leaving office, Joe Biden made a series of decisions to augment Ukraine’s stockpiles of vital munitions. Toward the end of 2024, the Department of Defense surged hundreds of thousands of artillery rounds, thousands of rockets and hundreds of armored vehicles to Ukraine, and that December, he approved an additional $1.25bn security assistance package for Ukraine, which has enabled the continued flow of US arms ever since (with the exception of the damaging pause ordered by Donald Trump in March).

These decisions bought Ukraine time, but that time is running out. Ukraine is depleting its stockpiles of US munitions. The $1.25bn aid package will soon be exhausted. The United States still possesses several billion dollars in drawdown authority, which could be used to send Ukraine additional security assistance. But since taking office, Trump has not approved a single military aid package for Ukraine. Even if Trump were to reverse course and utilize this remaining drawdown authority, the amount available is insufficient to sustain US support for Ukraine over time. To do that, Congress would need to approve additional Ukraine funding, which will not happen while the Republican party controls both chambers and the White House. As a result, the era of US military aid to Ukraine is approaching its end.

Trump was ‘the candidate of peace’. Now he’s fanning the flames of war

Mohamad Bazzi

Read more

Vladimir Putin is stalling the Trump administration’s ineffective pursuit of a ceasefire as he waits for Biden-era military aid deliveries to run dry. Over the weekend, shortly after the Russian president met with the US representative Steve Witkoff, the Russian military launched a horrifying ballistic missile attack in Sumy that killed dozens of Ukrainian civilians. Putin is biding his time, eager to see whether the Ukrainian army will buckle in the absence of US military aid. As he said recently: “There are reasons to believe that we will finish them off.” Even if Russia is unable to capture much more territory, Putin will still wait for Ukraine’s position to become significantly more desperate before making any serious decisions about an end to this war. As US military aid for Ukraine winds down, North Korea, Iran and China are likely to continue, and could decide to increase, their support for Russia.

Putin is planning for this war to continue for at least months longer. Russia faces its own challenges: Ukrainian forces continue to fight effectively and to impose extraordinary costs on the Russian military, and falling oil prices will place further strain on the Russian economy. Even so, Grigory Karasin, Russia’s representative in talks with the Trump administration, has indicated publicly that ceasefire negotiations will progress slowly over the course of this year. The US should be seeking to adjust Putin’s calculus – and to push him to engage in meaningful negotiations – by surging security assistance to Ukraine and intensifying sanctions against Russia. But regrettably, the Trump administration has done neither of those things, opting instead to pressure Volodomyr Zelenskyy and to make unilateral concessions to Russia.

European leaders have stepped up in recent months to try to help Ukraine survive in the absence of US leadership. European discussions about a postwar reassurance force are important, but the actual war is still ongoing, and further planning is needed to deal with the impending loss of US material support.

The key questions for Ukraine’s European backers are twofold: how can Ukraine persist with a combination of its own domestic production of weapons, European security assistance, and US intelligence sharing?; and what is the most viable pathway to finance this support?

As a baseline, European countries should accept more risk tolerance in donating their own military equipment to Ukraine. Many European governments maintain significant stockpiles of artillery, rockets and air defense; given the stakes of this war, more of those capabilities should be provided to Ukraine. Meanwhile, these same European countries should increase defense spending to replenish their depleted weapons stockpiles over the longer term.

Second, Europe should direct more resources into Ukraine’s innovative defense industrial base. Ukraine is producing cutting-edge drones, munitions and air defense capabilities that are reducing, though not eliminating, its reliance on external security assistance. Now is the time to finance Ukraine’s indigenous production of weapons, which are helping to blunt Russian assaults across the front.

Third, the United Kingdom and France – as leaders in their support for Ukraine – should try to strike a deal with the Trump administration to secure additional air defense missiles for Ukraine. During the Biden administration, the United States diverted its air defense exports so that they would go to Ukraine first. A coalition of European governments led by France and the UK should attempt to negotiate an agreement with the White House to continue this policy – with the understanding that the Europeans will foot the bill. Under this arrangement, participating European countries would purchase AMRAAM and Patriot missiles for Ukraine off US production lines, and the Department of Defense would prioritize those purchases given Ukraine’s acute and ongoing air defense requirements. Trump may refuse this offer, but there is no downside to making the pitch, which, if successful, could be broadened to cover additional US defense exports that Ukraine needs.

Fourth, the European countries supporting Ukraine will need to decide how to pay for all of this. One option is to dig into their own budgets. The other, more sustainable option is for Europe to seize the approximately $300bn in Russian sovereign assets currently immobilized in their jurisdictions. Those assets can be used to finance Ukraine’s defense industry, procure weapons from the US and around the world, and support the Ukrainian economy for years to come. Strategically, those assets would provide Zelenskyy with a durable source of non-US assistance, which would reduce Zelenskyy’s dependency on the US and increase his leverage in any negotiations to end the war. Many legal and policy experts have put forward strong arguments to justify seizure and to mitigate associated risks to the European economy. The costs of inaction today far outweigh the manageable risks of asset seizure.

The realities of our current moment are both clear and regrettable: Putin has shown no indication that he will agree to a ceasefire, so this war will continue, and the end of US security assistance is approaching. Europe should move quickly to pursue the above steps and help save Ukraine from the coming storm.

1. David Shimer served on the White House national security council from 2021-25, including as the director for eastern Europe and Ukraine and as director for Russian affairs. He is an adjunct senior research scholar at the Institute of Global Politics at Columbia University’s School of International and Public Af

Tell you what Blob, if the US cuts off military aid to the Ukraine despite their willingness to settle, I’ll join your criticism. But I don’t think there is a chance of that happening….if Russia tries to exploit the situation, my guess is Trump will increase the support for the Ukraine.

I'll say this sincerely, I hope you're right while I disagree. Thus far Putin has shown that he's a master poker player, he's politely refused to come to the party, ignored all of Trump's niceties and hasn't conceded anything. I'm not convinced he's interested in peace or seeking peace.

I believe Putin is going to sit this out hoping the USA will cut all support to Ukraine. The only thing that will stop Putin is if Trump gives Ukraine it's full military support.

The problem is dealing with a dictator who only respects fear.

Trump needs to win this one on behalf of Ukraine so as to gain the respect of the free world as well as sending a signal to China, North Korea and Iran, I hate to think the outcome if he doesn't.

There's a much bigger play at stake than just Ukraine.

And again, I hope you're right.

Trump can't give Ukraine full military support, hothead Zelensky will attack Russia directly...which is his right, since Russia invaded him, but Russia might do something stupid in retaliation...this has no easy fix.

Go ahead then Traditional….name the wars NATO has waged which were entirely in US interest.

Ah, the expected change in tune. NATO operations that were triggered for the US'best interests must be entirely in US interests. Which includes an exclusion hard to sustain because in anything, people may find a minor interest.

NATO operations have been limited so instead of naming one operation that was driven by US best interests, since most of them if not all were made in the US best interests, what about naming one operation that was not made in the US best inteests... It is the question to be asked, which one of them is not made in the US best interests....

As for your rebuttals, they aren’t convincing. The US has provided and continues to provide substantial aid to the Ukraine.

Again the substantial aid was approved by the previous administration, the current administration is merely allowing what is left of what was already approved to be sent to Ukraine.

It also continues to provide intelligence which is arguable more important than material aid at this point. Trump briefly cut some of the intelligence off, there is no guarantee if a ceasefire is not achieved that Trump doesn't reduce or cut off that intelligence.

At this point there is two things Ukraine needs from America. That intelligence and Patriot missiles and launchers. The former doesn't actually cost the US that much, considering the satellites are already in place and the latter Zelensky is willing to pay for.

Ultimately those are probably the reasons that Ukraine and Europe have indulged Trump's attempt at getting a ceasefire for so long, they know it's pretty much doomed to fail, but they don't want to antagonize Trump that he cut's them off from even purchasing US military aid in a fit of rage.

And NATO probably preserved Europe when the Soviet Union was dominating eastern Europe all the way to Berlin.

That's another one of those thing's that impossible to prove either way. The Soviet Union did have plans to aggressively advance into central Europe if they were attacked first but I'm not aware of them having any plans to preemptively doing it. I suppose you could argue if no US troops were based in Europe that might have changed, but you could also argue the British and French having nuclear bombs by the early 1960's could have been a sufficient deterrent.

Why should Europe be involved in fixing the deficits, well I use the term collectively, each individual country in Europe should be doing that….it’s a basic of free trade. I can think of no serious effort to do that,

What exactly do you want European countries to do. Reconfigure their entire economies over time to suit the US. Everyone aims to buy and sell roughly the same to America. So Germany imports 400,100 cares from America...what does that do...well they either sit in lots in Germany because their isn't a demand for American cars or the German's do sell them and put Germany's own car industry which is already struggling badly under even more pressure and potentially out of business. Do they buy more US pharmaceuticals...does Germany need to buy in $21.5 billion dollars of pharmaceuticals from the US, is their demand for that. Or do Germany stop buying pharmaceuticals from other countries to buy from the US, but how does that affect the balance of trade to that other country.

Does say Germany or other European countries with a trade surplus to the US shift to buying all its energy requirements from the US. Where does leave Europe's other energy suppliers like Norway, or some of the African countries. If say we shift from buying Middle East energy to America, does that drive up costs as it has to come from further away...does it create potential scenario that those Middle East countries then have to seek out new markets and will by welcomed open armed into China's sphere of influence etc. Then you have to ask the question could Europe risk creating an energy dependency on the US after it already got burned with the Russians.

And then what about countries the US has a surplus with. Take Ireland, when factoring in services the US has $93 billion surplus with Ireland. So what the US is to somehow find $93 billions worth of stuff to buy from us. Even if the US wanted to do that, we don't have the capacity to sell you that much stuff. We can't produce $93 billion worth of butter, whiskey or potatoes. We can't magically make more pharmaceuticals over night.

I'm sure there is some easier wins that are more manageable for both the US and Europe that could be done relatively quickly and that would reduce the deficit by a few billions, but what Trump seems to want, if its even viable would take decades to do. Countries would need to be given time to gradually re-balance while not destroying their economies in the process, not just whacked with stonking great big tariffs.

if Russia tries to exploit the situation, my guess is Trump will increase the support for the Ukraine.

They already are. Take the energy infrastructure ceasefire. Russia has attacked Ukrainian energy infrastructure in Kharkiv despite there being a supposed ceasefire. The Russian's are say there is a ceasefire but only a ceasefire with missiles and drones, not with tubed artillery so they are free to attack it with artillery. They did this way because they know Ukraine can't attack their energy infrastructure with artillery as its simply too far away.

Likewise a ceasefire in the Black Sea would benefit Russia more, Ukraine and Russia are already able to get their cargo ships in out of the black sea, but a ceasefire would allow the Russian's to more easily resupply Crimea.

Trump can't give Ukraine full military support, hothead Zelensky will attack Russia directly...which is his right, since Russia invaded him, but Russia might do something stupid in retaliation...this has no easy fix.

Zelensky does not want full military support, he wants defensive missiles. He is not a hothead either he's actually a rather collected individual, what happened in the Oval office is an absolute damning indictment of the Trump administration, not him. As for attacking Russia, Ukraine already has in various ways, using its own methods, including thousands of drone attacks and actually sending forces into Russia itself, but Ukraine has always abided by the restrictions place on it by its western partners when it came to using the weapons they provided.

Glad you agree there is no easy fix. It's why Trump should never have said he would stop the war in a day or 100 days, it puts pressure on himself to reach an agreement.

Stavan gar believe all he shit The Guardian provides to him and add his ownbefuddled B S to make it sound real. He as zero info of any factual situation in Ukraine at all. Neither does he knw what the outcome of the present situation ibn Ukaine si - nor dioes he know what is a hppening woldwide where isntability is the norm. The Biden Asministration caused the present situation and Trump is blamed for the hatred of he USA caused by the Democrats,

Te shit sis cear from he start of this thread/ The story that Trump suspended he taris on some dictaorship is total BS - Trump suspened all tariffs bar China - for 90 days to get trade reaties in place during that period and Government delegations aare streaqming to the USA for the purose of negitation of trade treaties - but the BSters only mentioned 4 rogue countries that has been suspended - but the restritions on their trade will remain in any event, Thya re alread undr sanctions and their imports and deals with the USA is miniscule, So what si the point of the whole story in he emdia - it si just further brainwashing of IDIOTS workdwide.

The fact stategically is Ukraine is a minor country and Zelenskyy not the President or dictator of the world whose every instrution or wish must be obeyed,

The American consumers love to consume, so they consume a lot— like locusts.

Maybe Americans should just consume less.

People buy what they want to buy, and trying to force them into a deal to buy inferior products (American cars) is bullshit. I would rather say just trade less with America, and become more self-sufficient.

Trump wants the EU not to charge VAT for American products- while America has an equivalent Income tax (federal and state). Coprorate tax may be higher in the US as well, if companies have operations in the US.

All while Big Tech get away with paying little to no corporate tax in the EU

Maybe Americans should just consume less.

The masses won't consume less when they're being bombarded with calls to consume every day in all forms of media, when possession of goods is equated to better quality of life and prestige. Something as stupid as a cellphone is now a status symbol. It takes a conscious effort and awareness to move out of that mindset.

‘Ultimately those are probably the reasons that Ukraine and Europe have indulged Trump's attempt at getting a ceasefire for so long, they know it's pretty much doomed to fail, but they don't want to antagonize Trump that he cut's them off from even purchasing US military aid in a fit of rage’.

…….

So according to you Europe and the Ukraine think this war will go on until one side breaks, or they both stop from sheer exhaustion. But wouldn’t the side that has a tenth of the manpower and whose infrastructure is being destroyed ‘get exhausted’ first.

And if Trump has a bad round of golf he might try to stop the Ukraine from even buying military equipment? Seriously?

……..

Putin has a strong hand and is not negotiating in good faith. He never was. But this is not a popular war in Russia and the precipitous fall in oil prices is going to have its own effect. It’s a messy business and the desire to punish Putin is understandable.

But the negotiations are the only hope for avoiding even more tragedy. Both Europe and the US should be pushing for peace and using all the tools in the toolbox to try to make that happen,

There is no magical better outcome for the Ukraine in never ending war.

As for the trade deficits, the deficit with Germany is $84 billion, almost a tenth of the total deficit and more than 25% of the Chinese deficit. The deficit with Ireland was $87 billion in 2024, even larger than Germany.

Crazy is one’s first reaction. Then you discover it’s being driven by Pharma located in Ireland because of Ireland’s tax haven advantages. Zepbound the blockbuster drug for fatties is made in Ireland. It’s hilarious glutinous Yanks are creating a trade deficit with a third world style tax haven.

if that’s not a classic case for bringing back manufacturing to the US I don’t know what is.

They can take Facebook back with them, as well as Mcdonalds, StarBucks and Burger King, Visa, Mastercard, Paypal. The Americans operate with their own numbers, most of which are lies promoted by Trump.

It is too dangerous to allow the data products in Europe these days, especially with Trump back leading the Great Americans

So according to you Europe and the Ukraine think this war will go on until one side breaks, or they both stop from sheer exhaustion. But wouldn’t the side that has a tenth of the manpower and whose infrastructure is being destroyed ‘get exhausted’ first.

Yes pretty much, but your assessment of the balance of power is way out.

Going by pre-war population Russia has a manpower advantage of more like 3.5 to 1. It's not 10 to one.

But neither side has fully mobilized. Ukraine choose not recruit the under 25 cohort the age group that provides the most capable soldiers in order to preserve the younger generations. Pre-war that stood at 1.9 million people, granted some of that cohort fled at the start of the war but Ukraine still has the option of mobilizing those who remained which would be several hundred thousand at least. Russia has also opted not fully mobilize its population because Putin fears the consequences of doing this. Instead he's relied on the standard yearly mobilization process in addition to recruiting volunteers by offering high paying contracts (by Russian standards) and mobilizing prisoners as well as using coercive measures on ethnic minorities but not the general population. As result Russia recruitment has mostly just about been able to replace it's manpower losses and at times been sufficient to generate additional new forces, but no one credible is saying the Russian's have an even 3.5 to 1 advantage in manpower, ChatGTP has it 1.7 to 1 for combat troops and 1.5 to 1 for total active military personal In Russia's favor. Not good for Ukraine, but for a side sitting mostly on the defensive, it's not insurmountable either.

As for infrastructure, both sides are attacking each others, though with Ukraine it's more about trying to apply economic additional economic pressure on Russia in combination with the sanctions to see if Russia's economy will tank and the Russian people will then turn on Putin. Where's as Russia's attacks on Ukraine are more about breaking Ukraine civilian morale.

However I think you also overestimate Russia's capability here, because for all they have done with their attacks, Ukraine's domestic military production has soared. In 2022 Ukraine only produced $1 billion worth of military equipment, but as of this month they are now producing at a rate of $35 billion worth and that maybe only around half of Ukraine's maximum potential output. Presently Ukraine's output accounts for about 40% of all Ukraine's military arm supplies. Ukraine is for example producing over 2 million drones a year with the potential of going to 5 or 6 million drones. Currently 80% of all causalities inflicted on the Russian's are by drones.

And we haven't even spoken about western aid.

And if Trump has a bad round of golf he might try to stop the Ukraine from even buying military equipment? Seriously?

No, its more if he takes offense at something Zelensky or a European leader says or does. Yes seriously did you not see Trump's comments yesterday

"Zelensky always wants to buy missiles [Patriot]. Listen, when you start a war, you have to know you can win it. You can’t start a war against someone who is 20 times your size and then expect people to give you missiles,"

Putin has a strong hand and is not negotiating in good faith. He never was. But this is not a popular war in Russia and the precipitous fall in oil prices is going to have its own effect. It’s a messy business and the desire to punish Putin is understandable.

It's no where near as strong as you think. Right now Ukraine is laying vast rows of barbed wire. Why barbed wire in 2025?, because most Russian attacks are infantry only. We can see in the Russian vehicle losses ratios, that there is an every increasing amount of civilian vehicles being counted in the Russia losses, why because they are running out of tanks, APC's and IFV's and have to use civilian vehicles. Satellite footage shows the gradual emptying out of Soviet vehicle deports. This is why Russia has been seen mounting assaults on scrambler bikes and from Lada's. We have footage of Russia soldier's assault positions while using crutches, donkeys being used to transport equipment. Russia does have advantages, but presently it doesn't seem to be capable of anything more than slow grinding assaults

And its not about pushing Putin, it's about not putting Ukraine into a weakened position were it will be unable to defend itself from future Russian aggression.

But the negotiations are the only hope for avoiding even more tragedy. Both Europe and the US should be pushing for peace and using all the tools in the toolbox to try to make that happen,

A weak peace will lead to an even greater tragedy. Putin doesn't want peace. He want's Ukraine to surrender or be handed to him on a plate. The US and Europe should be pushing for the right kind of peace, one they along with Ukraine mostly dictate, not Russia.

There is no magical better outcome for the Ukraine in never ending war.

Well it's not a certainty but its wouldn't be a magical outcome either that the Russian economy implodes either resulting in domestic pressure forcing Putin to stop, or hobbling military production so much that the Russian's conclude they can't advance any further on the battlefield and are then willing to accept more balanced peace terms.

Not really, the trade deficit numbers are not up for debate. The point is, these pills made for US consumption could easily be made in the States. High volume pharma manufacturing is no mystery in the US. But the tech Europe benefits from can come from the States, Korea and China. Better for Europe if it comes from the States.

As for the trade deficits, the deficit with Germany is $84 billion, almost a tenth of the total deficit and more than 25% of the Chinese deficit. The deficit with Ireland was $87 billion in 2024, even larger than Germany.

Crazy is one’s first reaction. Then you discover it’s being driven by Pharma located in Ireland because of Ireland’s tax haven advantages. Zepbound the blockbuster drug for fatties is made in Ireland. It’s hilarious glutinous Yanks are creating a trade deficit with a third world style tax haven.

if that’s not a classic case for bringing back manufacturing to the US I don’t know what is.

Once services are factored in the US has a $93 billion dollar trade surplus with Ireland.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2025/03/06/irish-economy-grew-more-than-estimated-in-2024/

But lets talk about Pharma for a moment. Why does Ireland and also European countries like France and Denmark and other export so much Pharma to the US. Well if you look America remains the worlds biggest exporter of Pharma, but what it did is that it moved away it's Pharma industries away from making generic (low profit) drugs into branded drugs (high profit), creating an opening in the market for other countries to focus on the generics.

Russia has a population of 144 million….Ukraine theoretically 39 million but only 27 million in government controlled areas. So potential Russian forces are roughly 5 times as large. I use 10 times because Russia seems to have access to proxies eg from N Korea, less risk of losing called up troops (everybody fixing an appliance in the US seems to be Ukranian) and more stretch in increasing the percentage of the population dedicated to the fighting. But that’s probably too high, so pick your number.

The European position seems to be predicated on the concept of a weak peace eg weakness by Chamberlain which led to WW2. They forget the strong peace at Versailles which led to Hitler in the first place.

These notions are too simplistic. Ukraine without outside forces is facing bitter years without any guarantee of an eventual ‘better’ peace. Russia has been exposed by this war and won’t be anxious for the next one any time soon. This is probably Putin’s big legacy play. In the meantime Europe should over invest in the equipment that saved Ukraine from the predicted defeat.

Zepbound is the furthest thing from a generic drug. As a Lilly shareholder it’s nice they can get better tax treatment in Ireland. But there is no other Comparative Advantage reason why drugs should be manufactured abroad for American consumption.

And I’m a little skeptical of your mate Eoin’’s numbers. He claims Ireland has a service deficit with the US of $163 billion. Whereas the figure for the European Union is $109 billion. So if he is right the rest Europe had a services surplus of $54 billion. Seems wrong.

And I’m a little skeptical of your mate Eoin’’s numbers. He claims Ireland has a service deficit with the US of $163 billion. Whereas the figure for the European Union is $109 billion. So if he is right the rest Europe had a services surplus of $54 billion. Seems wrong.

Russia has a population of 144 million….Ukraine theoretically 39 million but only 27 million in government controlled areas. So potential Russian forces are roughly 5 times as large. I use 10 times because Russia seems to have access to proxies eg from N Korea, less risk of losing called up troops

North Korea has a population of 26 million and has only sent about 11,000-12,000 men to fight against Ukraine. It's not like the entire North Korean army is going pack up its bags and move to Ukraine either There is no way you can stretch that to ratio of 10 to 1.

It's true that Russia has a notable manpower advantage, but there are constraints on Putin using it. At present in terms of active personal and combat personal, I have yet to see evidence that Russia has even a 2 to 1 advantage.

The European position seems to be predicated on the concept of a weak peace eg weakness by Chamberlain which led to WW2. They forget the strong peace at Versailles which led to Hitler in the first place

Where are you getting Versailles from...no one is advocating for that. Europe just doesn't want to leave Ukraine exposed.

These notions are too simplistic. Ukraine without outside forces is facing bitter years without any guarantee of an eventual ‘better’ peace.

You're not getting it, they don't consider the current deal a peace deal, but a delayed surrender. That's why Ukraine will probably choose to fight on.

Russia has been exposed by this war and won’t be anxious for the next one any time soon. This is probably Putin’s big legacy play. In the meantime Europe should over invest in the equipment that saved Ukraine from the predicted defeat.

Russia could rearm and and re-equip for another war within 5 years according to many intelligence estimates particularly if they think the US is no longer on the field. Europe is re-arming but we need time to do so.

Zepbound is the furthest thing from a generic drug. As a Lilly shareholder it’s nice they can get better tax treatment in Ireland. But there is no other Comparative Advantage reason why drugs should be manufactured abroad for American consumption.

Zepbound might no be, but the majority of what is exported to the US and other countries is.

Those American companies don't just sell back into the US, they also sell into the EU easier than the US selling directly into the EU. Wages are probably slightly lower in Ireland too.

Could have, should have, would have…..those are all just opinions. What about the $ 163 billion service deficit with the US?

VisKop

You really have a chip on your shoulder. Why do you hate America that much?

Lol, you seem to have a special dislike for their succesful companies.

Hey, how many European companies generate as much income for the world's population as what Facebook and Google/YouTube do? What about AI - literally a paradigm shifting technology, and yet again America is leading the charge.

If you don't like the deal you are getting, go somewhere else.

See, because that's what Americans would do. If they see how something could be improved, they'll quit their day job, work out of their garage and create an Amazon, Facebook, Google...

If you're not willing to take the risk...then just hush and take what you get.

...or just whinge from now until eternity and see how far that gets you.

I'm actually sitting here chuckling to myself as I think of the ridiculous amount industries where the US are very far ahead and how much it must tick you off.

Don't be that guy, VisKop.

Any mention of the Big Tech billionaires, and ButtPlug wants to crawl up their arses.

Trumperica" can fabricate fake tariff numbers and then try to bully the rest of the world into accepting absurd trade terms.

Big Tech has done well, but it’s inventors are more the product of the old America that was admired as the flagship Democracy —not the MAGA iteration. Today, these companies act as monopolists that close down markets, driving up share value for the richest 3%, while America’s minimum wage stagnates at a pitiful $7 per hour. They criticize China for following the same practises.

Americans likely despise these corporations more than Europeans do. They offshore countless jobs to India that could—and should—be done in America.

In case you haven’t noticed, protests against American companies are growing across Europe.

The EU has already announced plans to phase out reliance on U.S. firms like Visa, Mastercard, and PayPal. I think that is a good move for any data product, as these companies are no longer trustworthy.

That said, I still like people from California and New York—basically, any Americans who reject Trump and this MAGA movement, where folks with an IQ of 80 somehow think they’re superior to the rest of the world.

"Today, these companies act as monopolists that close down markets, driving up share value for the richest 3%, while America’s minimum wage stagnates at a pitiful $7 per hour. They criticize China for following the same practises."

That's where we differ, VisKop.

I think there should be no minimum wage.

Minimum wage should be the smallest amount of money that is possible to had over to somebody. Like, $0.01

"Zelensky does not want full military support, he wants defensive missiles. He is not a hothead either he's actually a rather collected individual, what happened in the Oval office is an absolute damning indictment of the Trump administration, not him. "

Oh nonsense...it was obvious for everyone to see...if you go begging for help, leave your attitude and entitlement at the door....Vance was a d!ck, but Zelensky took the bait and also made a d!ck of himself...he's no statesman and not a diplomat either...he has no cards...he should go sit at the table ant asked to be dealt in...making demands for assistance is arrogant and ungrateful for the help he already received...who ever advised him should have been fired long ago.

And I’m a little skeptical of your mate Eoin’’s numbers. He claims Ireland has a service deficit with the US of $163 billion.

Well he isn't my mate, but he published that piece in the Irish Times which is one of the two well regarded broadsheet newspapers in Ireland. He got those numbers from the Central Statistics Office of Ireland a government department that is answerable to the Irish Prime Minister. It's data is also independently audited and has always been considered quite accurate.

Oh nonsense...it was obvious for everyone to see...if you go begging for help, leave your attitude and entitlement at the door....Vance was a d!ck, but Zelensky took the bait and also made a d!ck of himself...he's no statesman and not a diplomat either...he has no cards...he should go sit at the table ant asked to be dealt in...making demands for assistance is arrogant and ungrateful for the help he already received...who ever advised him should have been fired long ago.

Of course you just trot out the MAGA version of what happened, say its all about you. Zelensky not statesman or a diplomat ROFL, he will probably go down in history as one of it's best statesmen or diplomat.

Saarkie, its only Bernie that persistently talks about the pitiful $7 min wage .................... from Trump & his Maga Cabjnet of National Salvation, sweet vokall .

Oh nonsense...it was obvious for everyone to see...if you go begging for help, leave your attitude and entitlement at the door....Vance was a d!ck, but Zelensky took the bait and also made a d!ck of himself...he's no statesman and not a diplomat either...he has no cards...he should go sit at the table ant asked to be dealt in...making demands for assistance is arrogant and ungrateful for the help he already received...who ever advised him should have been fired long ago

zxcvb

Here’s the answer:

Royalty payments (such as for the use of intellectual property, patents, trademarks, software, and copyrights) are part of a services category known as:

"Charges for the use of intellectual property"

— This falls under the broader umbrella of international trade in services.

So, when a company in Ireland pays royalties to a company in the United States (often for technology, software, or branding rights), that counts as a services import from the U.S. to Ireland.

In the case of Ireland:

Ireland hosts many U.S. multinational corporations (like Google, Apple, and Microsoft) that license intellectual property from their U.S. headquarters. As a result:

1. The royalty payments sent back to the U.S. are often huge, and
2. They show up as services imports in Ireland’s international accounts.

This is a major reason why Ireland’s services import figures can appear unusually large — not due to conventional services like consulting or tourism, but because of these IP and licensing arrangements.

These Royalty payments which are just part of the tax haven consequences have soared in recent years because of changes in international tax agreements. It seems your well regarded Irish broadsheet was deliberately ignoring the underlying cause for the Irish services deficit….benefitting from tax haven activities.

"Of course you just trot out the MAGA version of what happened..."

No, I actually watched the whole thing. I saw it with my own eyes and I didn't ask some else to explain to me what I saw...it's crystal clear. You don't see it cause you don't want to...

And that misleading Irish services deficit with the US is almost half of Europe’s services deficit, a patent absurdity. Which makes one wonder about that European number. Exactly how all these tax haven flows work would make for a nice paper in Journal of Finance.

VisKop and Blo...

Here's a challenge for you.

Make your best argument for minimum wage. Why a high minimum wage is such a great thing...

See if you can think past your nose when making the argument for it.

@ButtPlug, copy and paste the numbered points below into AI. (As one prompt).

Try a few AI Programs ( Chat GPT, Perplexity, etc)

1. Explain the 3 market states of capitalism (Monopoly, Oligopoly, Perfect Competition)
2. Explain the benefits and disadvantages of each, but apply them to the local, national, and global market.
3. Explain the social implications of each.
4. Explain this all within the context of macroeconomics.
5. Explain if/why a minimum wage is recommended for each.
6. Factoring this all in, what market state is the best?

'

It shows that minimum wages are less important when there is more competition because there are more jobs. It is more capitalist as an employer can hire and fire until they get the people they want to keep.

That said, I don’t fully agree with every point from the AI-generated analysis. In my view, the ideal global market structure would be a hybrid of oligopoly (2-8 companies, ideally above 5) and perfect competition.