Bump
Bump
LMAO... the mega-silence.
I can barely hear myself think!
Blo's main interest in this war is to virtue signal. Pick the side that you believe or are told is the most virtuous to support and then display as much virtue as you can.
Denise's main interest in this is Trump loosing so that she can buy cheap skirts from and cosmetics from China again.
Stav and Rooi's main interests are proving Trump wrong.
I can assure you that none of them have donated a single penny to Ukraine nor to any adjacent charities.
It's all just waffle.
No one said it would be easy. Oh, wait—someone did, Trump: "I alone can fix it", said the great deal maker.
This was all while threatening other NATO partners (Canada and Greenland/Denmark) with colonisation, while not ruling out taking these countries by force. He has also renamed the Gulf of Mexico and turned NATO into a laughing stock. As if that were not enough, Trump then created a global trade war to weaken the NATO alliance further.
At least Trump agreed on some trade deals with Russia, and America appears to be in the process of dropping sanctions against Russia. So, Putin is now in a stronger position than before. So Trump's efforts were worse than useless.
Blo, Rooi and Denny never claimed to have a solution to ending the war.
I've already stated in a previous thread more or less what I think will happen. The negotiations will fail, America will step back from the conflict, though its unclear at this point if they will continue to provide intelligence or if they be willing to sell certain missile defense systems. Europe will try to cover the gap. Ukraine will probably survive survive for another year or so, at the cost of tens of thousands more dead, and several times that wounded, they will lose more territory but not a significant amount. Russia will sustain more loses than Ukraine doing so and its economy becomes increasing strain.
At that point both sides may look at ceasefire and the Russian's might be willing to offer terms that are more acceptable to Ukraine.
It's not my preferred strategy. I'd like for Europe to give Ukraine much greater support. As in most European nations send a third of all their military ground equipment to Ukraine, be it tanks, APC, trucks, artillery. After all that equipment was primarily purchased in defending against Russia. Best off sending it to use in Ukraine rather than having sitting around picking up rust, to maybe one day potentially be used against Russia. It's not like Russia can teleport a ground force into Europe to exploit this. I'd also have European countries send as many troops as possible into Ukraine to train Ukraine forces, speeding up Ukrainian force generation. I'd have the Sky Shield system enforced, where European NATO countries base their aircraft into countries neighbor Ukraine and then actively protect the western half of Ukraine's airspace from missile strikes.
I'd like to see a mindset change from European leaders, to stop being so damn afraid of Russia or whining that they can't do anything without America. Russia's military is a shambles and European's manpower and economy dwarfs Russia's.
To that effect Europe needs to actively state the end goal isn't Ukraine survival, but the goal should be the complete defeat of the Russian forces inside of Ukraine and the liberation of Ukraine's entire territory including Crimea and a commitment to support Ukraine for as long as it takes in doing so.
Economically sanctions need to be maintained and they need to be placed on the Russian shadow tanker fleet. The frozen Russian assets should be used to support Ukraine.
Having said that the ultimate decision of whether Ukraine should fight or make peace lies with Ukraine. They should be given the option of fighting on and put in the strongest possible position military, but if they say the cost is too high and they need a peace deal then ultimately that's fine as well.
I can assure you that none of them have donated a single penny to Ukraine nor to any adjacent charities.
I can assure you are wrong, I've donated hundreds of Euro's to Ukraine.
At least Trump agreed on some trade deals with Russia, and America appears to be in the process of dropping sanctions against Russia. So, Putin is now in a stronger position than before. So Trump's efforts were worse than useless.
The majority of the sanctions are actually coming from Europe so America dropping sanctions isn't that significant.
The dropping price of oil could crush Putin. Ideally, Europe and NATO allies produce more oil to push the price down even more.
The attacking side in war appears to lose more people; Putin said it is 4:1.
I wonder if Ukraine has considered using mines in the same way that Russia did to slow down the attack and increase the death rate closer to 10:1.
A childish, stupid thread started by a drunken old fool who clearly doesn't understand basic English . . . and then we get his Alpha Gimp squeaking encouragement and clutching at his tiny little gherkin because no-one wasted their time responding to such a stupid thread.
Truly pathetic.
The dropping price of oil could crush Putin. Ideally, Europe and NATO allies produce more oil to push the price down even more.
Europe doesn't have oil production to increase. But I don't think America oil producers are in a hurry to increase production and drive down the price of oil further because they will start losing money if they are not already doing so. Apparently us production has plateaued since the end of last year. Most of the oil price decrease is down to weaker demand from China and the OPEC+ nations increasing their production.
To that effect Europe needs to actively state the end goal isn't Ukraine survival, but the goal should be the complete defeat of the Russian forces inside of Ukraine and the liberation of Ukraine's entire territory including Crimea and a commitment to support Ukraine for as long as it takes in doing so.
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Well there’s one suggestion. Escalate…..bring the world closer to nuclear confrontation.. ..or perhaps wipe out the entire 20 to 30 year old male generation in the Ukraine. Make Putin even more popular in Russia and channel the WW2 Russian resolve.
You can’t be serious. But thank you for trying. Anything else? Any other brilliant ideas that are better than trying to negotiate a peace?
Well there’s one suggestion. Escalate…..bring the world closer to nuclear confrontation.. ..or perhaps wipe out the entire 20 to 30 year old male generation in the Ukraine. Make Putin even more popular in Russia and channel the WW2 Russian resolve.
So if China make a move on Taiwan, the world should more or less let it happen and cut a deal in China's favour because of the risk of nuclear confrontation, because that's what your effectively arguing. Everyone and their dogs will be rushing to get their hands on nukes because in such a world that will be the only thing that guarantees your safety and guarantees no one will stop if you try to take something that's not yours if you have them.
As for wiping out every 20 to 30 year old, just like Ukraine is fighting to the last man, Ukraine has been destroyed, Ukraine has nothing left, its a a hyperbolic statement that does not reflect reality. The average age of the Ukrainian solider (and Russian) is over 40. The Ukrainian's have not mobilized the under 25. And so far Ukraine military deaths are maybe just over 100,000. Now that is an enormous sacrifice to make but Ukraine has millions between the age's of 20-30 and it's ultimately up to Ukraine what they are willing to sacrifice. So the idea that entire generation could be wiped out is absolute and total nonsense unless the war goes on for like 60 years.
As for making Putin more popular, it may or may not. But it ultimately won't matter if Russia can't make any progress on the battlefield and end up with hundreds of thousands more causalities, and for what a few fields and small towns? As for channeling WW2 resolve, he's already trying, but it's a whole thing if he tries for a general mobilization, the Russian economy would almost certainly collapse and again for what, its not like Russia itself is under threat of invasion.
You can’t be serious. But thank you for trying. Anything else? Any other brilliant ideas that are better than trying to negotiate a peace?
Oh I am serious. Try to negotiate peace, sure you can try to negotiate peace, but it would be nice if that's what America was trying to do not negotiate surrender terms on Ukraine's behalf.
While the negotiations on dealing with a ceasfire and end of the Ukraine War is ongoing we get some rel news on site that came frm the media. SB mentions a trade deal wiith Russia that only came because there is no trade officially btween the USA and Eusia - but there is buying of oil coming from Russia through Saudi Arabia,and India. Trump never dealt with that one and the only thing is he did not lift tarriffs as to Russia and North Korea woud mean that since North Koea and Russia are under sanctions and no oiffucial trade was ongoing - how can Trump impose Tariffs on them without admitting that his predecessor allowed trade with Russia to proceed trough third paties, ,
What is clear that as part of the peace negotiations Trump offered Putin a trade deal in the event of the Ukraine War ending. The only thing certain at this stage is that unless Zelenskyy caused shit again a deal on mining of rare minerals between the USA and Ukraine wll be signed on Thursday. That deal was part of the negotiations to end the War in Ukraine and for the past two weeks there were no official announcemetn on anything on the War ending agreement - so negotiations are ongoing and there will be fuirther progress on ending the War in due course,
French and German mothers sending their sons to take back the Ukranian territory Russia holds……that’s your solution. It will never happen, get real.
Any other bright ideas?
Emm...where did I say that?
Oh I forgot, we are going to send French and German trainers, who haven’t been in combat since Vietnam and WW2, where they failed…to train the Ukranians who are battle hardened. Great idea Sherlock.
Oh I forgot, we are going to send French and German trainers, who haven’t been in combat since Vietnam and WW2, where they failed…to train the Ukranians who are battle hardened. Great idea Sherlock.
Arrogance may not be a uniquely American threat, but I must say they do it better than anyone and its obviously rubbed off on you.
Yes send the French (historically the nation that is the most military successfully nation in history) the Germans, the British, the Poles, the Finn's and whoever is able and willing to do it. Do they know everything about the type of war that Ukraine if fighting, absolutely not. That doesn't mean what they do know is useless to the Ukrainians. Would you prefer green Ukrainian's were sent into battle with no military training what so ever or just a few weeks basic training by its own military. By extension your also denigrating the expertise of the US military as well who have no experience in the type of warfare that Ukraine is fighting.
The US also lost in Vietnam and more recently Afghanistan, are you saying if the US offered military training to Ukraine it would have no value?
The truth is both sides can learn from such a situation.
Yes, Ukrainian forces have developed a uniquely advanced and large-scale approach to drone warfare, distinguishing themselves globally in both training and operational deployment.?Business Insider+2Defense Express+2The Guardian+2
Since the onset of the conflict with Russia, Ukraine has established an extensive network of drone training programs:?
Ukraine's practical application of drone warfare has garnered international attention:?
In summary, Ukraine's extensive training programs, innovative approaches, and effective deployment of drone technology have positioned it as a global leader in drone warfare.?
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And you think sending a bunch of Frogs and Krauts as trainers will help expel Russia from Ukraine? Get real. Ukraine needs fighters and equipment. And if the French and German mothers are willing to send their sons to die, and enough of them are, it might make a difference. But no guarantee with they will do any better than Napoleon or Hitler.
Does that help or are we going to be listening to this nonsense of European trainers again.
This is modern 21st century war, with a mix of world war one strategies.
No one has this experience in war, except Ukraine and Russia. Some of the troops going to Ukraine are actually going to learn this modern day warfare.
I would not overrate America's army - other than they have the most advanced weapons.
The US has spent more on their military than any Western country, so they have stock pilled allot of technology over the last 40 years. (At least since the end of the cold war).
When America fought in Vietnam withoiut the advantage of better technology, they were not so effective.
During the Irak war, the American Army was responsible for most of the friendly fire deaths where British Troops were killed by Americans.
America loves their action hero moves, many of them (MAGA especially) like to be Rambo.
And you think sending a bunch of Frogs and Krauts as trainers will help expel Russia from Ukraine?
Absolutely, what do you think that the war is solely about drones now and normal military training isn't required any more, is that what your suggesting?
Ukraine needs fighters and equipment.
And both of my suggestions helped with that.
And if the French and German mothers are willing to send their sons to die, and enough of them are, it might make a difference.
Yeah how about you try arguing against a point I actually made.
But no guarantee with they will do any better than Napoleon or Hitler.
What no Massoud? This might come as a surprise to you but things have changed somewhat since 1812/1941.
Does that help or are we going to be listening to this nonsense of European trainers again.
LOL keep embarrassing yourself.
Napoleon is the top ranked Military leader of the last 2 thousand years. His ego caused him to lose in the end, but any military general would learn his war strategies.
| Rank | Name | Era/ Country | Notable Achievements |
| 1 | Alexander the Great | Ancient Macedonia | Conquered vast territories from Greece to India; undefeated in battle; spread Hellenistic culture 26. |
| 2 | Napoleon Bonaparte | France, 18th-19th c. | Revolutionized warfare; won numerous campaigns; reshaped Europe; introduced Napoleonic Code 26. |
| 3 | Julius Caesar | Ancient Rome | Expanded Roman Republic; military genius; pivotal in Rome’s transition to Empire 26. |
What no Massoud? This might come as a surprise to you but things have changed somewhat since 1812/1941.
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Yes the Germans have no military experience and France has Vietnam and Algeria. Get real.
Simon Woodiwiss reckons that the training should be in Ukraine with training shared by Ukrainians & foreign personnel .
Here we are discussing Napoleon in a thread about solutions to Ukraine/Russia...LOL
France's integration of technology into their intelligence services is what they're a world leader at.
That's where they'd be the most useful to Ukraine.
Yes the Germans have no military experience and France has Vietnam and Algeria. Get real.
More dismissive arrogance.
The German's took part in Afghanistan and have had limited operations in other places, like Iraq, Syria France effectively led the Libya intervention and have had more recent operation in Africa.
Of course there is other nations in Europe like the UK who also have some military experience like Afghanistan and Iraq. But regardless of a countries experience or not, they are all trained to NATO standards.
Drone's might be the big thing in war are in Ukraine and I'm not saying western trainers could teach them absolutely everything they need but that doesn't mean that the Ukrainian's can just go without standardized training or that they can't learn anything from professional soldiers with year even decades of training. Soldiers still need to be trained in learning discipline, tactics and teamwork, learn how to use military equipment of various kinds including western supplied equipment. They still need to learn how to use artillery, operate and maintain vehicles etc.
European countries have already providing training to Ukrainian troops, just the Ukrainian's are sent to those countries providing the training. Some of the training wasn't useful or relevant to the war in Ukraine and some of it was.
Here we are discussing Napoleon in a thread about solutions to Ukraine/Russia...LOL
Ask Mozart.
Luxembourg should send their trainers, you never know what could make the crucial difference. But let’s not forget Napoleon he got as far as Moscow, the trip back home was a little stressful but nobody had a better grasp of 19th century Russian tactics. Fresh horses were always key.
Are there any serious suggestions from the anti negotiated peace group…..we have beaten trainers to death. No ….military training by countries with limited relevant experience is not going to expel Russia from the Ukraine.
Luxembourg should send their trainers, you never know what could make the crucial difference
Ah yes another argument I didn't make.
Are there any serious suggestions from the anti negotiated peace group…..we have beaten trainers to death.
As unusual Moz argued a point that was completely stupid, now he's trying to brazen his way out of it.
No ….military training by countries with limited relevant experience is not going to expel Russia from the Ukraine.
No... military training by countries with a high degrees of professionalism will improve the overall quality of newly generated Ukrainian forces and decrease the length of time it takes to form new units. I'm not suggesting the Ukrainian's solely rely on that training or not offer additional training in other area's not covered by European trainers. This isn't going expel the Russian's from Ukraine on it's own but it will assist with that.
The above is alrgely BS. Take or insatnce Napoleon as one of the best army commanders in the history of mankind. He was clever and new he shortcomings of the othe armies in Western Europe. then ibn 1812 he attacked Rusia and met his master in Kutizov. So what did Kutuzov do whne Napoleon invided Russia with 600 000 troops. Easy way to get rid of a an enemy. Retreat - destroy all foodstffs or take it with teh retreating army f otersise set it on fire, Some minr battles took place before teh abttle of Borodino = where he arny of 500 000 solders unfer Naopleon attacked the Russian army of 250 000 soldiers, The biggest abttle ever fought before in the h istory fo mankind.at the end fo teh day the Russians hel on to their positions and the batl as no win by either side,
Kutuzov thn decided to retreat and let Napoleon fell for it The Russians used guerilla tactics thatprevented the troops in Moco to et respplied with weaapons and suooplies and after twio months in Moscow Napoleon decoded to retreat and after two mahor abttles both won by the Russians the retreat became a flood o regfugee. In teh end Napoleon got back with 38 000 of te 600 000 amy remaining. Kutuzov totally utwitted Napoleon and in the end Napoen los power France,
The same ahpened to he German A rmy attacking Russia in 1941 - it was destroyed like the French army was in 1812. Russia topday is a far stronger couty militarily than is anyof the NATO countries combined bar the USA
So the dream is thaUkraine provided by westerna rms and training must beat the Russians - the thinking on his site is as bizarre as the thinking of Napoleon and Hitler was. Much is ritten by the bravey of the Ukraine soldiers - but the end result evey daywas a frther rereat by the Ukraine Army.- every loss weakens the West and Uraine tio get a positive peace traaty accepted,
I think both Trump and Rubio are sick of the antics of both Putin and Zelenskyy in undermining negotiations and said that i the Ukrininas want to self-destruct and the Russians can let heire conomy suffer - theyw oul withdrawn from the epeace negotiations.
. . .
Mike posting absolute shite again I see.
Luxembourg should send their trainers, you never know what could make the crucial difference
Ah yes another argument I didn't make.
Waaaaaahahahaha humorless WOKEY
Humorless...I spent a solid 10 minutes laughing uncontrollably when I heard Trump had put tariffs on penguins.
‘Uncontrollably’? Relief no doubt, there is a word for that condition:
Eudyptulaphobia is a rare phobia, the fear of being watched by penguins. It's a specific type of phobia where the individual experiences intense and irrational fear when observing or thinking about penguins. This phobia can significantly impact daily life and social activities, even though the fear is considered irrational.
ccl
Looks like the Trump administration has put forward one more proposal. Looks like a take it or leave it offer, and if the leave it the US walks away.
America will legally recognize Russia's claim to Crimea
Russia will retain defacto control of the territory its captured in control of the Ukrainian Oblasts of Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhia.
Russia will be given guarantees that Ukraine will not join NATO.
The US will lift sanctions it has imposed on Russia since 2014.
US will co-operate with Russia in energy and industrial sector.
In return Russia will give back to Ukraine the parts of Kharkiv Oblast they control.
Ukraine receives security guarantees from a group countries (that does not include the US)
Free navigation of the Dnieper river which runs along the front line in the South.
Compensation and assistance in reconstruction.
Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Planet (which is currently controlled by Ukraine) handed over to US control. Energy from which will be supplied to both Ukraine and Russia.
The peace plan looks more like a surrender plan. I wonder if Putin drafted this?
America is out. I see Japan may have similar satellite tracking technology that could potentially be used on the battlefield to replace US support.
America need to leave Europe.
Nippon ... Arigato!
45,252 posts
So Trump never solved this in 24 hours. No serious person expected that. But it seems possible there may be no deal in the 100 days, which was a real timetable.
So Trump can be criticized for over promising. It was an unnecessary bit of hubris, it wouldn’t have bought him one more vote. Maybe the threat of calling things off will have some effect, but probably not.
But those jumping up and down with glee because Trump is embarrassed, totally ignoring that more boys are going to be killed, should give us their solutions. This is your string, show us you are smarter than Trump.