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The World According to Klown . . .

Forum » Beenos Trumpet » The World According to Klown . . .

Apr 03, 2019, 09:12

This needs it's own thread!

The post below is pasted from the How many planets in the Milky Way thread.

Apr 03, 2019, 09:13

This is my attempt at summarizing a timeline of Klown's world view:


Year 0 - ???

Magic Beardman creates planet Earth.
Magic Beardman places "life of a sort" on newly created planet.

Year ???
All life that was placed on Earth is destroyed by Lucifer's Flood.

Year ??? + 10 million years
All of Earth is covered in water.

Year ??? + 15 million years
Lots of the water goes somewhere else and dry land forces it's way to the surface.
Night and day starts.
Animal and plant life is returned from somewhere else back to Earth.
Redneck asks stupid questions.
Redneck's mates dig up remains of previous inhabitants.

Year ??? + 15 006 000
A theory is "brought out" that pleases unbelievers.
A 6000 year old Redneck armed with apes, mutations, science, carbon dating and an obtuse nature sets off to demonstrate how stupid he is.

Year ??? + 15 008 000 
All life on Earth destroyed by Noah's Flood except for Noah and his family and a breeding pair of every land animal.

Year ??? + 15 010 000 (Year 0)
Christ is born. The Christian believes we are living in the last days.

Year ??? + 15 012 019 (Year 2019, the present)
The second coming of the Messiah is at hand.
A 12 000 year old Redneck now has a horde that is not awaiting anything.

Year 2019 - 2026
Tribulation

Year 2026 - 3026
Lucifer's imprisonment

Year 3026
Judgment

There is still one very interesting gap that Klown needs to explain. What happened between Year ??? + 10 million years and Year ??? +15 million years? Why is there that distinction? 10 million years pass by with the earth under water and then after 15 million years have passed by the water goes somewhere else and dry land starts forcing it's way to the surface. What happened in between? 

Edit 1: Uh-oh . . . I posted that before I saw a lot of updates by Klown. Let me try and understand the new information and where it fits into the timeline and I'll edit accordingly.

Edit 2: Okay, sounds like all the interesting stuff like wars, power struggles, betrayals and treason happened in the 5 million year gap I referred to in Edit 1. This is better than Game of Thrones!

Apr 03, 2019, 09:18

Two other important pastes from the previous thread that provide some persepective, here's the original "dumbed down" version from which I made the initial summary timeline:


Apr 02, 2019, 17:49

No Redneck ... how is it possible not to understand something so simple?

Let me dumb it down a bit for you.

1. Planet is created in the year zero.

2. Life of a sort is placed on the planet.

3. All life on the planet is destroyed after a time ... by whatever means .. in this case, a flood (the flood of Lucifer) ... rendering the planet lifeless. Niks, nada, fokol life on earth. 

4. 10 million years pass by. The planet remains under water ... (the deep) ... void of any life.

5. 15 million years on ... the planet is brought back to life ... it is not recreated ... it already exits. The water is pushed back ... dry ground is forced to the surface (land) ... night and day ... animal and plant life is returned to inhabit the land, the oceans and lakes, rivers etc ... man is made in His image ... and voila, we have a Redneck asking stupid questions ... pretending to be doff ... totally confused as his mates keep digging up remnants of the previous inhabitants. 

6000 years later a theory is brought out to please the unbelievers ... Redneck jumps at the chance. He is now armed with apes, mutations, science, carbon dating and of course an obtuse nature ... the happy chap sets off to tell everyone ... exposing his ignorance. 

Approximately 6000 years ago the earth as we know it was restored ... overhauled ... sprayed with a fresh coat of paint ... revamped ... made new ... approximately 2000 years later the flood of Noah took place, wiping out life ... approximately 2000 years after that, Christ was born ... the Christian believes that we are living in the last days ... that 2000 years have passed on since Christ's birth ... that the second coming of the Messiah is at hand.

We await 7 years of tribulation ... and a thousand years of Lucifer's imprisonment ... and then judgement falls.

Redneck and his unbelieving horde await nothing ... or maybe they'll be mutated into a moth ... or evolve into some new species of ape never seen before ... who the fuck knows. 


And then this subsequent update . . .


Apr 03, 2019, 08:35

My dear SharkShit ... you no doubt have an interest in this subject ... can't say I blame you ... I can't think of anything that fascinates me more.  I have given a lot of time to it. 

The problem is that you don't even know the simple basics of the Bible. When the Christ was born ... when He died ... how He died ... why He died ... why we celebrate Him as Lord ... these simple things are beyond you ... and yet here you are, debating with us.

I am NOT referring to the flood of Noah, you Dimwitted retard ... and I'm not blaming Lucifer for that flood either. Can't you read? Things have happened on this planet long before we showed up. Dramatic things. Wars. Power struggles. Betrayal. Treason.   

I suppose you think that Lucifer and his rebellious subordinates (angels) were kicked out of Heaven during the time of Adam and Eve, right?

LOL!!!!!!!

Are you aware of the war that took place between God, Michael and Lucifer and the role Jesus Christ played in it?

Are you aware that Jesus Christ was with the Father long before He was born in Bethlehem? Long before the existence of the universe. That He was actually sent here on a mission ... and the opposition he faced from an age old enemy? 

How is it possible that you know so little? Even an uninterested school kid would have picked up more in primary school than you have.

The time frame of 10 million years and 15 million years that I used was a simple example to dumb it down for your like minded idiot, Redneck.    

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaaaa!!! Wow!!!!!! You have got to be kidding me. 

No, SharkShit ... the lizards and plant life were not wiped out because of their sin. How stupid are you? Ever heard of collateral damage? Look it up. 

There is more to this than you think. Much more. Do yourself a favour ... go read the Bible ... cover to cover ... see what it says ... you may discover something of great value ... something that may just prepare you for what lies beyond the grave.

Apr 03, 2019, 09:30

Okay, Klown, for starters can we try get rid of all those "Year ???" question marks and establish the correct dates?


In the Book of Klown Chapter 1 verse 3 it says:

"3. All life on the planet is destroyed after a time ... by whatever means .. in this case, a flood (the flood of Lucifer) ... rendering the planet lifeless. Niks, nada, fokol life on earth. "

Can you elaborate a bit on "after a time"?

Most of your other dates seem quite precise but this one is a bit vague and causes a lot of confusion when trying to establish a timeline. Thanks.

Apr 03, 2019, 09:43

The collateral damage of the sinning lizards meant their was no life for over 15 million years. Some pretty harsh stuff. 

Where was Jesus?before God drowned all life on earth.

Maybe God could have sent Jesus as a lizard or even as a dinosaur  

Apr 03, 2019, 09:47

Sharkbok, I'm hoping Klown will help us clear up some of the confusion and advise where things like the age old enemy, sinning lizards and Michael fit into the timeline.

Apr 03, 2019, 10:23

Rooi

You've started this thread with the sole purpose of trying to embarrass somebody.

What's the point?

Everybody has a view which can be picked apart and pissed on. 

As I said before, nobody is talking from a point of absolute truth.

All something like this does is prevent people from from sharing their thoughts in future.

Good luck with that. 

I shan't have any part of it.

Apr 03, 2019, 10:26

No Plum, you're wrong. I am genuinely interested in Klown's belief and if you're not interested then exercise your inalienable right to ignore this.

Not sure why you felt the need to tell us you won't take part in this thread instead of simply ignoring it but anyway . . .

PS Why would Klown be embarrassed by us wanting to know more about his beliefs? That's a bit patronising of you. Klown is quite capable of speaking for himself and I don't think he's embarrassed by his beliefs otherwise why did he tell us? Huh?

PPS As for starting a thread for the sole reason of embarrassing someone, what was your purpose for starting this thread, hmmm? Anyone smell any rank hypocrisy in the air?

Apr 03, 2019, 10:42

So the Angel's had a war and this killed all life on the earth.... 
The almighty God could not have prevented this...
Lucifer left the band to start up hell. 

Apr 03, 2019, 10:52

Hells Angels  ..................... hallelujah of halruffragababa bro.

Apr 03, 2019, 11:14

If we give criticism out, we should be prepared to get it back:). And no one is more critical than CleanCut.


I doubt even the most rabid Church ministers would support this rendition. 

Apr 03, 2019, 11:16

Let's give Klown the opportunity to state his case . . . unless Plum is right and Klown is a bit embarrassed by all this interest in his views.

Apr 03, 2019, 12:02

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaaaa!!!

You guys are not well ... not well at all.

I've dumbed it down about as far as I can ... it didn't help. It seems we have to wait a little longer for your brain to evolve properly.

The best I can do is ask BeanDip for lessons in Moron ... and quite frankly I'm not sure that that would help anyway.

So ... it's very thoughtful of you to dedicate an entire thread to me, Redneck ... what a pal ... that's why I like you ... you are forever thinking of others.

I'm afraid though, it's a lost cause ... so just go with your big bang, evolution theory and be blissfully happy in your ignorance.

Oh and thanks Plum ... good of you to stand up for me.



Apr 03, 2019, 12:07

Oh and no ... I'm definitely not embarrassed by my beliefs.

Why would I be?

I love the subject. I find it very interesting.


Apr 03, 2019, 12:17

"I love the subject. I find it very interesting."


. . . but you . . . ummmm . . . don't want to talk about it?

Come on Klown, admit there are some holes in your original post and we just want to clear those up.

Where did the water go after Lucifer's flood?

What happened between the period 15 million BC and 10 million BC? Why is there a distinction between what happened up to 15 million years ago and then you continue again from 10 million years ago?

I know you dumbed it down for me but it would seem you didn't dumb it down quite enough.

PS Do you attend a church temple on Jubilee Road in Parktown?

Apr 03, 2019, 12:33

So many things over the years have been explained to this arch clown rooijackass but he doesn't even read anything that doesn't fit into his crazy warped world view. Nor does he address the arguments presented. The hatter is far, far gone. Reminds one of Karl Marx ranting on about the God he so hated.

He hasn't a clue spiritually or politically and has been shot down endless times but so thick is this raving nutjob he blunders on regardless. However the consequences for him couldn't be more serious. Very sad.




Apr 03, 2019, 12:39

Baboon-ou, which part of my "crazy warped world view" is significantly different to current scientific theory?


You like to make out that I have some kind of unique and bizarre beliefs but I personally think my beliefs are largely mainstream.

Come on then, name these crazy or warped beliefs I have.

Apr 03, 2019, 12:40

Why is there a need for a new thread? 

Why is there a need to ridicule CC's beliefs?

Apr 03, 2019, 12:50

Rooitwit how many times has one got to explain to you how moronic your thinking is. Look at the last big issue - you went on about Trump Russian collusion again and again. Huge EGG landed yet again. You get it all wrong almost all the time.

No sorry rooitwit not today not in the mood to spend hours correcting your monstrous stupidity. if you are desperate dig up all my many many posts on creation and actually read them.

Run along now!

Apr 03, 2019, 12:52

Dense, if you don't like this thread then don't read it. It's really not that hard.

I'll start whatever thread I feel like starting in this section when I feel like it. Okay little chap?

I see there's a puddle of drool forming on the desk under your chin so I'll assume something has penetrated your immensely thick (and phenomenally ugly) head. Good . . . you can run along then. You're dismissed.

Apr 03, 2019, 12:57

Baboon-ou, I'm not talking about political views, I'm talking about concepts like cosmology, evolution and the origins of the planet.


Don't worry, we all saw on this thread what a craven little coward you are and how you couldn't answer the question or provide examples. I have no reason to think you've hardened up a bit since then or developed a backbone so carry on behaving like a weak-arsed jellyfish.  

Apr 03, 2019, 13:06

A bit touchy I notice Huh? And where did I say I didn't like the thread....Dunce?

If you can't answer the questions then say so you small minded little man. Nothings changed though, you'll go to any length to put someone down. 



Apr 03, 2019, 13:19

Why are you yapping at me, Dense?


Look, I'll try to be nice here . . . if for some strange reason I ever want the opinion of a common, low-class and ill-bred suck-up then I promise here and now that you'll be the very first person I call for. Okay? Is that fair enough?

Apr 03, 2019, 14:55

CC's input was as I understand it was just speculative or trying to fill in the gaps of unanswerable mysteries and vacuums...just trying to communicate with vacant, cynical and unbelieving views.

Scripture was never intended to be a science book...it was a record of the Creator's inter action with mankind and the way we were made to respond...it was written by many people who were spiritually inspired and interacted with Him. Some of the ancient people were ordinary and simple herders, shepherds but some were kings, leaders, soldiers, Israelites, Jews, Greeks, and intellects like Paul of Taursus.

The amazing thing is that all these different scribes, separated by huge gaps in time and station were in complete harmony with the underlying message and prophesies of a coming Messiah. What a coincidence...lol.

If God wanted to teach us science first before He showed us His love...would that make sense?.

Imagine a text book written thousands of years ago explaining how He made an atom, a molecule, all the metals and non-metals, salts, and compounds, made the Earth and all living things and Milky Way. All in all impossible. It's too ridiculous.

We are finite, small, vulnerable and sinful. He is beyond our comprehension...He gave it to us simple and yet the puffed-up puny intelligent intellect of man, still scratches his head and rejects because He cannot work it out.

You come to Him in faith, in trust, in total surrender of self and humility. You cannot see God with your physical eyes...whilst you are on the earth but you can sense Him and see His works, He does not have to explain Himself...He's given us enough, even sent His Son to redeem us from our sins and iniquities.

The sad/happy thing that's for sure we all will see Him one day.

Yes you cannot prove God like you want to or see or understand His mind...afterall He is God...look up what really God means.

CC was only saying there is far more we don't know and cannot know but what is only sufficient to know for man's salvation.


Apr 03, 2019, 15:06

Sounds like CC was trying his hand at being a prophet or Preist by interpreting scripture.


The bible was taught literally as a scientific textbook until science disproved its logic. It used to claim the earth was flat - but that along with other "fact's" has since been removed. 
Since then, the Bible has become more figurative. 

Christianity and Islam was taken from the Jews and customised to their needs - CC appears to be creating his own new religion in the same way. 
 
Allah (/?æl????l??l?l??/;[1][2] Arabic?????, translit. All?hIPA: [??????(h)] (About this soundlisten)) is the Arabic word for God in Abrahamic religions. In the English language, the word generally refers to God in Islam.[3][4][5] The word is thought to be derived by contraction from al-il?h, which means "the god", and is related to El and Elah, the Hebrew and Aramaic words for God.[6][7]


Apr 03, 2019, 15:32

There is just so much wrong with the christian belief I still cant comprehend how anyone is stupid enough to believe any of it. The complete nonsense that get stated without a shred of evidence never ceases to amaze me. If there was a god why are there so many versions of him and every believer knows what their god wants but thats different to all the other believers. Does this mean every believer has their own personal god?
Why didnt I get one, why is he ignoring me, what makes you morons so special, why is it hiding from most of us, why did he make me an atheist, why doesnt he save the 6 billion non christians on this planet that he is condeming to hell for eternity , why does he murder so many children every day, does he have no compassion or a soul?
The christian faith is complete bullshit full of contridictions that you would struggle to pass off as anything but the ramblings of a bunch of lunatics.


Apr 03, 2019, 15:32

"The bible was taught literally as a scientific textbook until science disproved its logic. It used to claim the earth was flat - but that along with other fact has since been removed. 
Since then, the bible has become more figurative. "

Satanbok, we have already determined that you know nothing about the Bible or Christianity other than what you read on some atheist sites. Please give examples of when and by whom the Bible got changed. I missed some of it.

Apr 03, 2019, 15:34

The World According to Klown is some kind of combination of the Gap Theory and Mormonism.

Apr 03, 2019, 15:34

The toxic sociopath and compulsive peeping tom, starts a thread simply to embarrass another poster. The sickness seems to be getting worse, he used to disguise his malice a little better.

Apr 03, 2019, 15:53

"The toxic sociopath and compulsive peeping tom, starts a thread simply to embarrass another poster. "


You mean like this one? 

Or this one?

Or this?

Or this?

Or this?

Or this?

Or this?

Or this?

Moffie, wake up and smell the putrid stench of your hypocrisy.

Apr 03, 2019, 16:11

The toxic sociopath on the defensive.....the difference between you and me Peeper is I react to attacks. And I make no apology for that.

But my hand is always held out in friendship to those who want to be cordial, even if we have had run-ins before. I would never turn on a supposed friend of mine and start a string to humiliate him. Only a sociopath with zero concept of empathy would do that.

You should see somebody who can help you understand your nature. Who knows, you might be a happier person.

Apr 03, 2019, 16:39

Saderfan...so according to you all Christians are foolish and dumb. A lot of great rugby men who are christians and committed as well as a lot of people in the forefront...so we are all clowns according to intelligent and wise Crusaderfan. And why should He reveal Himself specially for a hard heart that wants to disbelieve...this is arrogant nonsense.

"Beast" Tendai Mtawarira, Francois Pienaar, the late Ruben Kruger,Andre Venter, Henri Honibal,,Bakkies Botha, Patrick Lambie, Michael Jones, the late Jonah Lomu...many

You said if God revealed Himself to you, you could/would believe...let me say I don't believe you.

The Wisdom of God

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness [absurd and illogical] to those who are perishing and spiritually dead [because they reject it], but to us who are being saved [by God’s grace] it is [the manifestation of] the power of God. 19 For it is written and forever remains written,

I will destroy the wisdom of the wise [the philosophy of the philosophers],
And the cleverness of the clever [who do not know Me] I will nullify.”

20 Where is the wise man (philosopher)? Where is the scribe (scholar)? Where is the debater (logician, orator) of this age? Has God not exposed the foolishness of this world’s wisdom? 21 For since the world through all its [earthly] wisdom failed to recognize God, God in His wisdom was well-pleased through the a]">[a]foolishness of the message preached [regarding salvation] to save those who believe [in Christ and welcome Him as Savior]. 22 For Jews demand signs (attesting miracles), and Greeks pursue [worldly] wisdom and philosophy, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, [a message which is] to Jews a stumbling block [that provokes their opposition], and to Gentiles foolishness [just utter nonsense], 24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks (Gentiles), Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 [This is] because the foolishness of God [is not foolishness at all and] is wiser than men [far beyond human comprehension], and the weakness of God is stronger than men [far beyond the limits of human effort].

Apr 03, 2019, 16:55

". . . the difference between you and me . . . "


Thankfully there are a lot of differences betwen you and me, Moffie, but in this particular case the difference is that I wasn't trying to embarrass anyone, I really wanted to know more about Klown's world view while in your case you are a childish and vengeful little man as well as a STINKING hypocrite!

And I mean STINKING!

Apr 03, 2019, 17:23


Redneck ... my beliefs are strictly Christian ... not that you'd know that. It is by no means a hybrid of anything. It is all Bible based. Please show me where I've strayed?

SharkShit ... you and Redneck seem to be on the same page. You are firstly both totally ignorant ... and in your desperation have decided to fabricate nonsense, claiming it as fact. Good luck with that.

The Bible has never spoken of the earth as being flat. Please point me to that passage.

You are a clueless liar.

Sader Fan ... the less said about your bitter state of mind, the better. You really are a sad little man. You should get laid more often.

Sebastien ... why are you making excuses for me? Are you implying that I'm talking nonsense? Is that why you thought it best to come to my aid?

Well ... by all means correct me if you think I'm wrong. Expose me as a liar ... if you can. I don't mind. In fact I look forward to your views.

Redneck is boring. He has no ideas of his own. He's just regurgitating the standard rubbish he's been fed. There's no thought in any of it.

I wasn't speculating at all. Everything I said is exactly what I believe in. The Bible is by no means an easy read. One can read the book from cover to cover and still come away with very little.

Living one's life by the letter ... and by the Spirit ... are two totally different things. I know you don't live yours by the Spirit? Most Christians don't. Most have never had their spirits quickened. Their faith is based on tradition ... on what mommy and daddy told them ... some have even studied the word merely because of the status it gives them in their communities ... they head churches, teaching their flock things that they themselves have never bought into ... never grasped ... with no understanding ... no passion. Total shams.

Common ... show me the error of my ways.




Apr 03, 2019, 17:26

Don't get angry Peeper, get even. Hold on you've tried that and it only made things worse for you. So you are 'genuinely' interested in Turncoat's views. Why?

Apr 03, 2019, 17:28

That's good to know, Mozart.


Apr 03, 2019, 19:24

CleanCut, aka Dirty Mutt the lost sheep

Image result for lost sheep jokes

Apr 03, 2019, 19:29

In the parable of the Good Samaritan, it is explained that being a good person has nothing to do with religion. Beeno and Cleancutt/the lost sheep -  the 2 best bible bashers just do not get it. No matter how much time you guys spend in Church, you are devoid of the basic morals that most other poster have

Apr 03, 2019, 19:33

Lol Rooi

Two things guy...

1) Said you're trying to embarrass CC. I didn't say that he has anything to be embarrassed about. I'd say nice try, but it was, meh.

2) The thread you linked, cumon guy!? 

I am quite touched that you went back to edit your initial response here though. In my little world it says that I got you thinking enough about it enough to feel that you needed to do John Lennon. 

I think you like playing "bad cop". But I'm not sure it comes naturally. It seems like an adaptive behaviour. 

Well I know you are older and so probably did your two years in brown and boots. Have to compensate for that. Can probably slice about 10% of the hard arse off the top to compensate for that. 

Where does the rest come from though?

I'm trying to decide if it has its roots in family or work.  Going for work, since if it were family then you'd be a bit more emotional in both delivery and frequency.  

I differ from Moz in his sociopath assessment. A sociopath would be more sly. And that rules out you being the CEO of a company, unless you started it.

So what then? 

I am still leaning towards corporate but not an apex predator type. 

BUT...there is something else that is pushing me towards academia. 

Close? A million miles off?


Apr 03, 2019, 19:37


Image result for war of the gods

Image result for war of the godsImage result for collateral damage

Apr 03, 2019, 19:50

CC I was not sticking up for you...I never do that for any one...we are not children although sometimes I think some are reaching "second-childhood".

If that's what you believe and interpret...so be it...it seemed a little wobbly to me and I thought you were using a little humour in mockery.

Living by the letter and the spirit are the same thing in a context that is so often misconstrued and misinterpreted...

This is what Jesus said :

Jesus Fulfills the Law

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

When a true regenerated Christian speaks of the Spirit, He is refering to The Paraclete...the Holy Spirit...the Comforter, the Helper , the third "person" in the Tri-une Godhead.

I hope you have not fallen victim of some cult.

I don't go to church anymore because I cannot find one in my area that sticks to the Gospel.

Yes, I'm born-again (although I dislike this term because it is misinterpreted and abused)...better to say converted or I am a believer.

Heresy is rampant in the man made churches...today ie Prosperity and Word of Faith Gospel.

This has caused more damage to the call of the Gospel as unbelievers are driven further away by a false and ugly gospel that only appeals to the greedy and selfish pride in man.

That's my take...I think it is enough...I'm really uncomfortable here casting pearls amongst swine, if you understand this meaning.

Apr 03, 2019, 19:52

"I am quite touched that you went back to edit your initial response here though. In my little world it says that I got you thinking enough about it enough to feel that you needed to do John Lennon. "

How did he edit it Plum?...nothing that would change the way others would have responded I suppose? 

Not anything but editing a typo or wording it better I suppose? That would be dishonest or deceitful? I hope not, not our Rudeneck? Nooit eksê!


Apr 03, 2019, 20:34

Nah, he just added more to his response. 

Nothing sinister haha

Apr 03, 2019, 20:41

Good to know, I always thought I had good awareness, but he puzzles me. I just don't seem to get his angle...frustrating, because for me all the pieces of a puzzle must fit ... all the time, or it drives me insane...and he knows it ...and is pressing all the buttons all the time...and I succumb to thd pavlovian BS every time...like with Trad (you scared him(them) off BTW. )


Apr 03, 2019, 20:48

Most people agree that the Bible has been changed significantly. So it is pointless to quote verses as if they are direct quotes from God.

Hell, the gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John can't even agree on events in the same bible, let alone in the hundreds of Christian Bibles. Luke, for example, seem to disagree with himself in different versions of the Bible. 

Of the people on this post, about 99% agree that the Bible has had significant edits over the years. 

https://www.quora.com/Is-the-Holy-Bible-edited

Apr 03, 2019, 21:26

Klown, if someone had to ask me my thoughts on religion, god, evolution or whatever and just about the entire board burst into tears and accused that person of trying to embarrass me just by asking the question . . . I would be very embarrassed.


You can thank Moffie, Plum, Dense and whoever else for "standing up for you" but I was genuinely just wanting to know more about some of that nonsensical garbage you were spouting and how you arrived at it. I had no way of knowing it would get your lower lip quivering and your eyes all welled up with tears and I'm sorry if I traumatised not just you but more than half the board by simply asking for more clarification.

Don't worry, I won't ask any more mean and horrid questions that make you cry . . . although I will say that if you think that your bizarre notions are based on the bible then you're delusional . . . but let's all allow this thread to disappear off the bottom of the page and we'll forget this thread ever happened.

You carry on telling me repeatedly how stupid my own beliefs are and I'll just keep quiet. 

Okay?

All better now?

Apr 03, 2019, 22:12

Sociopath in mid season form.....sick as a dog.

Apr 03, 2019, 22:14

Say Plum do I gather from your posting that you believe Peeper is a CEO?

Apr 03, 2019, 22:57

Seb, I am not saying that christians are stupid about everything just their christian beliefs. Plenty of religious people are intelligent about plenty of other things.

And can you please tell me how I could not believe in your god if he revealed himself to me, once I know something to be true I cant just not believe it because I do not want to.. You are just proving your stupidity by making stupid statements, thanks for proving me right yet again. 



Apr 03, 2019, 23:09

If he started the company, sure.

He's too direct to climb the ladder all the way to the top. Can you imagine him pitted against some career schmoozer for those votes? 

He'd get my vote because I hate yes men, but the rest of the world loves them unfortunately.

Something about him says academia though.

Cumon Rooi, give us a clue.

Apr 03, 2019, 23:14

Rooitwit stop kidding yourself. You are not wanting to ask questions because the fact is like those other ignoramus's sharkbokkie and Crusader Fan you all most decidedly do not want to know.

Closed little minds terrified of the light and raging against God. 

You could give me the world a 1000 times over and I would never swop places with you lot. Indeed not for anything would I make a swop. 

Jesus on the cross said Father forgive them for they know not what they do.  Hence you remain to this day but time is not your friend. 

Great scriptures Seb!!! 




Apr 03, 2019, 23:30

If 2 people from this board were selected to go to hell - my guess is that Beeno and CC would be the favourites. Both may be religious, but they are the lost sheep in our midst. The black sheep......Lucifer's bum chums..


The good Samaritan parable states religion is irrelevant - actions speak louder than words. Jesus said this "in the bible"- "good people" go to heaven, not religious people.

Of course, the Church will push the angle of asking for forgiveness - because they can then be the middlemen making a cut. Of course, they will push the angle of one religion, one path to heaven.

Jesus says the priest and Levite will not go to heaven (despite being religious) - but the Samaritan will go to heaven. 

Narrative[edit]

In the Gospel of Luke, the parable is introduced by a question, known as the Great Commandment:

Behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”

He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read it?”

He answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbour as yourself."

He said to him, "You have answered correctly. Do this, and you will live."

But he, desiring to justify himself, asked Jesus, "Who is my neighbor?"

—?Luke 10:25–29, World English Bible

Jesus replies with a story:

Jesus answered, "A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

By chance a certain priest was going down that way. When he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

In the same way a Levite also, when he came to the place, and saw him, passed by on the other side.

But a certain Samaritan, as he travelled, came where he was. When he saw him, he was moved with compassion, came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. He set him on his own animal, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, gave them to the host, and said to him, 'Take care of him. Whatever you spend beyond that, I will repay you when I return.'

Now which of these three do you think seemed to be a neighbor to him who fell among the robbers?"



He said, "He who showed mercy on him."

Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise."

—?Luke 10:30–37, World English Bible
-
--Sharbok 20:19:04, RuckersForum.

Apr 04, 2019, 01:13

You are the one with the closed mind and cowering in fear at the feet of a make believe deity.

We (well I personally) rage against the belief not your imaginary friend. I for one would not trade a 1,000 worlds to be a gullible slave to con artists  like you. Go stick another layer of tin foil on your head as your stupidity is showing again.

Apr 04, 2019, 02:06

You can thank Moffie, Plum, Dense and whoever else for "standing up for you" ....

Koosie, you just don't get it do you? Here, let me school you.

I asked two simple questions.

The first questioned your motive for starting a new thread re Clean Cut. The second questioned why you were making a mockery of his beliefs.

In truth I wasn't "standing up" for Clean Cut, it could have been any other poster and I would still have asked the questions.

Get it now Dunce? I hope so.


Apr 04, 2019, 06:26

Snarkbok. The parable you quoted had nothing to do with the religion of any of the characters, but how they treated somene in need. You are either deliberately taking the p!ss @ Christianity yet again, or you simply are a real incentive fool.

And your take of how the bible was changed over the years is founded on hearsay if the "proof" you posted is all you got.

Like I said, you made a choice against something you know little about and don't understand.

Apr 04, 2019, 08:22

There are those here that take delight in mocking others belief...they are disrespectful of others and totally insincere. Their blasphemy shows no regard for sensitive matters...they are not interested in searching for the real truth. They know zilch about these matters, neither have they any desire but prefer to remain in ignorance and their only defence is to attack in ignorance. They hate the truth because it exposes them.

But I do believe there are sincere guys here that are really genuinely seeking but judge incorrectly because of confusion...

Those who are genuine may find this article helpful;

Your Good Works Cannot Save You | My Journey with God

Apr 04, 2019, 08:55

Redneck ... well, fortunately I’m not you.

I am by no means embarrassed by anything I said ... and I would have complimented you on giving me a good run for my money, had it not been for the juvenile type of questions you asked. One would expect that from someone as ignorant as SharkShit, or a primary school student.

Your ignorance is beyond belief. It’s best you hang on to your big bang theory ... and I would also recommend you stay away from anything that’s a little too deep.

You accused me of bastardizing my Christian beliefs. I’ve asked you for details ... but as expected, you have none to offer ... and thought it best to tuck tail and run.

 Wow ... you really are a disappointment ... I expected you to at least have a spine.

I am quite prepared to defend my beliefs and I’ll do it Biblically, as the bases of it, is all scriptural.

My lip is most certainly not quivering ... why would it be? You don’t have the means to provoke such a reaction from me, so rather not flatter yourself.

By all means, ask me anything you want ... but before you do, try to come up with something original ... a little less boring ... not so obvious ... something that doesn’t embarrass you more than it does me.

No ... I don’t agree ... I told you in my first post that I didn’t want to continue with this because of your ignorance ... but you pushed me and insisted I contribute ... and now that I have, you want this thread to disappear. Once again your spineless personality shows itself.

How could I be so blind? You are a pussy. LOL!!!    

As for thanking Mozart, Denny, Plum, Draad and “whomever” ... I’ve come to realize something. The posters on this board REALLY don’t like you. I’m not a favourite of theirs either but they’re prepared to stand up for me ... against you. That says something.

You could easily qualify for the biggest arsehole on site

Congrats ... that’s not easily done ... but then again, I suppose it’s a lot easier if you’re a natural.



Apr 04, 2019, 09:05

There's wrong on both sides...

Too many Christians talk down to non-Christians. You might hold something as fact, and that's fine, but it is unfair to say things like "You will go to hell because you don't believe".

That's a large part of the reason why the discussion normally ends up offending both parties.

Just on this one thread, I am able to quote numerous occasions where this occurred.

Isn't it better to say "I believe this"?

If you do believe then your morality should be superior, no? It's worthy of heaven after all.

Shouldn't you be a warm and welcoming light instead of a 200w interrogation bulb?

It's my belief that most Christians don't fully believe the doctrine themselves.

Why?

If you really did believe that an omnipotent and eternal being was watching and judging your every move and that one day every one of your actions would be prosecuted by the best lawyer in existence, then most of you would behave a lot differently.

If you did really believe then it would be abundantly clear from your behaviour that you are connected to something bigger. You wouldn't even have to declare your faith. It would be obvious to anyone that spent five minutes with you.

If I actually believed, I'd stop what I am doing right now and immediately commence walking the streets and trying to save people. It is by definition the most important and pressing task anybody could undertake and nothing would deter me. There just aren't any higher stakes. Nothing in this life would measure up to the importance of pleasing God and the best way to please him would be to bring him souls. To show those souls the light and ensure their existence into eternity.

Those seeming nutters that we see on street corners with megaphones and big evangelical signs...That's the natural result of actually believing. 

Saying that you aren't perfect isn't an excuse either. It's treated as a licence by most Christians. A licence to claim that you hold a doctrine, belief system and the love for its deity as close as is possible to your heart yet contravene some of its most basic principles every single day on numerous occasions.

In summary...the evidence of your actions serves to dissuade me of your conviction.

Apr 04, 2019, 09:17

Sebastien ... living your life by the letter is by no means the same as living it by the Spirit.

The letter of God is easily committed to memory ... and many people like you use to it impress others ... to show their piety ... as well as judge the wicked deeds of their fellow brothers.

Living by the Spirit of God is a life of love, compassion, being gentle, kind, and patient. A life where the Almighty God plays an active role in your everyday life. You my friend are very far from that.

I have seen your drunken rants on here. I have seen how you render judgement on others during these drunken binges ... and I have seen some very foul language coming from you.

You have done Christ no favours on here ... so please stop pretending to be so righteous.

None of your passages contribute or explain what it is to live in the Spirit ... so I‘m a little puzzled by why you’d include them ... ??

Was the intention to impress us?

No ... I am definitely not part of a cult. What gave you that impression? Feel free to be direct. I’m that way and prefer it to painting word pictures.

So ... going to church is no longer part of your life because they don’t preach your version of the Bible ... really? Please explain what you mean. Which version would you like to hear in church? I only know of one.

You seem to think you can teach me something. Great!!!! I’m always up for something fresh ... something new ... something that I don’t know.

I look forward to your input. 



Apr 04, 2019, 09:18

CC

I like both you and Rooi haha

Ja, I must be mad.

It's that Trad fake account that gets on my tits.


Apr 04, 2019, 09:39

Draad, you have learnt this lesson. "nothing to do with the religion of any of the characters, but how they treated someone in need". 


Exactly. What Jesus is saying is that being a good person has nothing to do with what religion someone is. 

Jesus contradicts what the Church says about asking for forgiveness, or only one religion is right. (They religion that happens to sell an insurance policy for).  


This is the moral of the story. Someone could go to Church every day, but that does not make them a good person, but if a non-religious person is a good person they have more chance of getting into heaven (afterlife etc). 

---SharkBok 20:19:04, RuckersForum.

Samaritans and Jesus[edit]

Jesus' target audience, the Jews, hated Samaritans[7] to such a degree that they destroyed the Samaritans' temple on Mount Gerizim.[8]]

Apr 04, 2019, 09:43

Klown, it's customary to answer someone's question before asking your own . . . unless it's an interrogation rather than a debate or an argument.

I'm more than happy to point out where you differ from the bible, right after you answer my questions. I count 5 of them but 2 of those are clearly rhetorical. If you think the other 3 are stupid and childish, that's fine, don't answer them . . . but just don't have a little snivel because I'm not answering your questions. Okay? Fair?

Also, I know you're not the shiniest coin in the fountain but at least try to understand that my suggestion that we let this thread disappear off the page wasn't for my sake, it was for you and all your new pals who were having a communal frothy because I started this thread. 

I have noticed that some of your new pals who stated they would take no part on this thread have actually had quite a lot to say since then so if the thread does continue then I'm happy . . . I'm just not going to answer new questions from you until you have the balls and/or the common courtesy to answer the questions I've already asked. Both Moffie and Baboon-ou regularly expect the same thing from me and I don't entertain their strident squealing so I don't see why I should make an exception for you.

The outstanding questions in case you're not clear:

1. You said that after year zero that "life of a sort was placed on the planet" and then all of that same life was "destroyed after a time". Elaborate on "after a time" please. What was that time period? Does it fall in between year zero and year 10 million or do we only start counting the 10 million years when "after a time" finishes?

2. What happened in the period from year 10 million to year 15 million (the gap between points 4 and 5 on your original post)? Why is there that distinction? You say 10 million years pass by and then after 10 million years nothing else happens but then you start again at 15 million years. There seem to be 5 million years unaccounted for. 

3. Where did all the water go to? You said the water was "pushed back" . . . I think most of us know what happens when we "push" water anywhere, it returns . . . so stop pretending it's a stupid or childish question. Where did that water go to?

The ball is in your court, Klown.

Apr 04, 2019, 09:44

Well that confirms it, Plum.

You are seriously not well.

As for Trad ... he certainly is a repetitive pain in the butt. If you've read one of his posts, you've read them all.

Can't remember when last I read any of his nonsense.


Apr 04, 2019, 09:55

Redneck ... perhaps you should learn to read ... or at least work on your comprehension skills.

You are so busy patting yourself on the back that you've taken nothing in. Perhaps it's that obtuse personality of yours coming through again. You should work on that.

I have already answered your first two questions and your third is a really stupid question so I won't bother with it.

As I said ... come up with something that's not so juvenile. You are an educated man ... try to behave like one.

Now try again, arsehole.



Apr 04, 2019, 09:58

No Shark, you have learned that lesson, I learned it a very long time ago. You still miss some if it. It's not what you do or don't do, its why.

I try not to be judgmental and I really try not to offend others, but I do get involved when I'm denied the same courtesy. I should react less to this constant baiting.

Apr 04, 2019, 10:39

It's hard to accept how Koosie tried to humiliate his most loyal supporter, Clean Cut. First by isolating his beliefs in a new thread and then by mocking his beliefs.

I guess that's the way Koosie rolls......it's just his way of thanking a board buddy for his loyalty.

If you're reading this post Clean Cut ......a word of advice.

Shutdown all your social media accounts......now!

Apr 04, 2019, 11:35

"Shutdown all your social media accounts......now!"

Dense, it's easy for you to shut down your social media accounts because you have no friends and none of your family members like you, so shutting down those accounts has zero impact. Most other people are not the same. Just something to bear in mind.

Apr 04, 2019, 11:56

CC I'm not going to justify any of my irregularities and yes you are spot on, such behaviour is totally out of line and I had to repent of this which I did sometime ago. Also I would like to apologise to those who I offended or set an extremely bad example. I accept that.

I am a sinner just like everybody is. The only difference is that I get convicted when I sin, admit it ask for forgiveness and strength to overcome and move on. I have to rely on Christ's redemption...I accept that and He paid for mine as a gift and I received that. It is my only passport. and so is it for everyone else...your, our and my good deeds won't save , our goodness is contaminated and the scripture says they are like filthy rags to God.

Anyway, you are right in some things that you have said, but just remember the biggest sins are hypocrisy and self...selfishness, pride and self-righteousness. The "old man" must die daily and the "new man" must feed and drink of the Bread of Life and the New Wine.

I have not been a Christian for very long...I came out of quite an exciting but sinful life and am still a "baby" in Christ and learning daily. I don't miss the old life at all and the truth has set me free.

I don't go to church simply because they don't preach what I read in the scriptures and entice people with a false gospel...that is very clear. The scripture is easy to interpret when you read it with your new heart and spiritual vision. Not difficult and tedious as it used to be at boarding school when the old Anglican minister rambled on and on.


Apr 04, 2019, 12:39

Speak when spoken to, Dunce. And who gave you permisiion to address me Huh? 

Talking about friends.....how many do you have on here Mr Personality??? I can name 6 shitlists where your name is common to all.

Anyway, that's besides the point, good try at diverting the topic.......fact is you shat on the face of your biggest and only supporter.

"Nice work"

Apr 04, 2019, 12:45

Being baptised on a budget....

Image result for baptism jokes

Apr 04, 2019, 13:05

Wehe . . . Dense still trying to sound like a hard case.


Hilarious!

Apr 04, 2019, 13:21

Sebastien......only God knows what's in your heart I don't think you need to justify your beliefs to anyone. So happy to see you back in the forum :)

Apr 04, 2019, 13:56

CC It is very clear...Jesus fulfills the law. The law shows us as imperfect, because there has not been a single human being living or dead that has not broken at least one of them and yes I don't only mean literally or physically, one example given by Him was adultery, you don't necessary have to fornicate with another woman outside marriage but even if you lust after her in your heart or imagination , it boils down to the same thing...maybe the consequences are less harmful but nevertheless the seeds are sown and if that other woman invites you in you are gone.

There are many other ways we get tempted, hatred, bitterness, unforgiveness,manipulation, deceitfulness,greed, untruthfulness, false pride, selfishness and indifference (lack of true love) and a host of others.

Christ (who knew no sin...the only human who never sinned  and overcame temptation) willingly took all our sins and iniquities upon Himself and died in our place for our sins and all the sins ever commited by mankind on a cross at Golgotha. That's a fact of history.

On the 3rd day He rose from the dead...He overcame death.

Although Christ was the Son of God and part of the Godhead, He was not supernatural when He walked the earth, He willingly became man in the flesh, He was a natural man, part of the Godhead who willingly subject Himself to our weaknesses. Yes He did miracles but He did this to reassure His followers that He was indeed the coming Messiah. He told His disciples that He would sent us the Comforter, ie the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead.

It is the Comforter that helps us on earth, He is part of God and Christ. He guides, fills us with Himself and is indeed a Comfort...He also convicts of sin.

That's exactly what I read in the scriptures or bible if you like. Yes, there are numerous versions, some a little wobbly others better in interpretation but all with the basics of the easy to understand message.

However, a vast majority of churches are following false docrines, ie Prosperity Gospel, Word of Faith...this is twisted and perverted.

Preachers like Benny Hinn, Ray Mc Cauley, Angus Buchan, Joyce Meyer and a myriad of others.

All Wolves in Sheeps clothing...very deceptive to the average person and even the sophistated.

Apr 04, 2019, 14:15

Nice to hear from you Cloudy...yes you're quite right, you can deceive others, even yourself but certainly not Him.

Apr 04, 2019, 15:28

"He willingly became man in the flesh . . ."


As such Jesus could not have been devoid of sexuality otherwise he would not have been "man in the flesh".

Agree?

So then one has to ask the question . . . Jesus was a Hebrew rabbi and in those times it was very unusual for a Hebrew rabbi to be unmarried . . . and the gospels all talk of Jesus' special love for his disciple John . . . so do you think Jesus could have been gay?

I suspect I'll be castigated for asking this question but I would honestly like to know how you christians explain it away. At the very least do you agree that if Jesus was completely asexual then he wasn't really a man of the flesh?

There's also that very odd passage in the bible (Mark 14: 51-53) where Jesus is in the Garden of Gethsemane and he is followed  by a "young man wearing nothing but a linen garment" who was subsequently seized by the guards and fled naked, leaving his garment behind. Why do you bible-bashers think that Mark mentioned this incident and specifically described the man as both "young" and "naked under his linen robe"? Don't you find that a bit weird? 

Apr 04, 2019, 15:55

As such Jesus could not have been devoid of sexuality otherwise he would not have been "man in the flesh".

Agree? Yes

So then one has to ask the question . . . Jesus was a Hebrew rabbi and in those times it was very unusual for a Hebrew rabbi to be unmarried (I would not know what was usual for a rabbi at the time, but Jesus was definitely not your run of the  mill rabbi) . . . and the gospels all talk of Jesus' special love for his disciple John . . . so do you think Jesus could have been gay? (Likely not, too little is said to be sure, but the rest of the scriptures are very constant in condemning it)

I suspect I'll be castigated for asking this question (you asked the question to mock, but it's OK) but I would honestly like to know how you christians explain it away. At the very least do you agree that if Jesus was completely asexual then he wasn't really a man of the flesh? Who said he was asexual? What about Maria Magdalene? Some say there was something between them. Jesus was simply not ruled by His emotions or desires. He was in full control of Himself. The only mention of Him ever losing His temper was when He chased the traders from the temple.

There's also that very odd passage in the bible (Mark 14: 51-53) where Jesus is in the Garden of Gethsemane and he is followed  by a "young man wearing nothing but a linen garment" who was subsequently seized by the guards and fled naked, leaving his garment behind. Why do you bible-bashers think that Mark mentioned this incident and specifically described the man as both "young" and "naked under his linen robe"? Don't you find that a bit weird? (I find it weird that you speak about homosexuality so much. Most heterosexual men avoid the subject as much as possible.}

Apr 04, 2019, 16:06

Draad, in my last post to you when I explained how little I care for the opinion of a fawning, grovelling little suck-up did you not understand what I meant or did you just flat out not believe me . . . or is there some other reason why you're still yapping away at me?

Apr 04, 2019, 16:07

Sociopath arguing Jesus never existed....then arguing he is gay, asking why Mark would write a particular passage, when he claims Mark never existed.

This scumbag is imploding post by post.

Apr 04, 2019, 16:10

Drunken old liar claiming I never said Jesus (or Mark) existed but providing zero proof to back up his newest lies.

Apr 04, 2019, 16:53

A stunned silence ensues.

I wonder if Moffie is dredging through the archives looking for a single instance of me ever saying Jesus never existed or if the doddering old drunkard is praying to his supreme being to spin the sun in a reverse direction for a few muntes so that his latest lie can just go away?

LMAO!

Put up or shut up you disgusting liar.

Apr 04, 2019, 17:00

"Drunken old liar claiming I never said Jesus (or Mark) existed"......so Peeper now believes Jesus and Mark existed.

So far, so good.....and he believes Mark wrote the gospel and was an honest observer, because he uses Mark to make a case that Jesus was gay.

But Mark the observer Peeper believes also wrote about the loaves and fishes, the Resurrection and the Ascension... ...the whole ministry of Christ.

So there you have it Peeper is a closet Christian.....or he is just totally, paralytically soused, and he has regressed back to his Sunday School days.

This is the funniest thread ever!

Apr 04, 2019, 17:01

Does that help?

Apr 04, 2019, 17:04

Still enjoying that 1000 minute day......waaaaaahaha!

Apr 04, 2019, 17:07

Can't find a shred of evidence to support his blatant lie so the deceitful old fool resorts to his childish and ignorant little squeals about the 1000 minute day which only he understands.

Apr 04, 2019, 17:19

Draad, in my last post to you when I explained how little I care for the opinion of a fawning, grovelling little suck-up did you not understand what I meant or did you just flat out not believe me . . .

(I understood and I believed you.) or is there some other reason why you're still yapping away at me?

I don't yap at you, sorry if you think that's the case, but I really am not going to let you decide what I post and who I reply to. Why are you still replying to me? Did it not sink in yet?

Apr 04, 2019, 17:53

So Peeper, believe I went looking for all your rants on religion if it gives you a shred of self worth. I didn't.

But explain this....if you believe Mark and Jesus existed......if you believe Mark wrote the gospel and was an honest observer about the young man....why was he not an honest observer about the Loaves and Fishes?

Confine yourself to the question and stop wriggling!

Apr 04, 2019, 18:17

Moz, he believes none of it, he aims to mock us with our own beliefs, but he doesn't understand it, so the attempt fails. His default is aggressive conflict, the nice things he does have a second motive...to p!ss someone else off...or someghing. This alter aims to stir.

Apr 04, 2019, 18:47

Poor bugger has completely contradicted himself....he was just popping with glee to be able to claim Jesus was gay. But as usual he just made a fool of himself.

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Apr 04, 2019, 19:38

Moffie. have you found an example of me saying there was never a historical person called Jesus or are you going to retract your lie and apologise?


No need for any of your self-righteous and childish hysterics, just put up or shut up as I said hours ago,

Apr 04, 2019, 20:53

So just to be clear, you believe Jesus existed, Mark existed and wrote the gospels. And John existed and also wrote the gospels.....and the facts in those gospels, such as the young man wearing the linen robe are accurate?

So if you believe all that, how do you square that with being an atheist.....this should be quite a ....er....revelation.

Apr 04, 2019, 21:06

Moffie, you are a liar. 


Nothing else need be said.

Apr 04, 2019, 21:12

Hahaha and you Peeper have been totally pwned....game, set and match once again!

Apr 04, 2019, 22:17

Crash goes the perverted peeper. Poor peeper not having a good day once again.

Seb I am great to see you have a God given understanding and understood about certain individuals. 

Thanks to Moz. Thanks to Denny. Thanks to Draad and CC. 


Apr 05, 2019, 00:50

I do apologise if I'm wrong but is Koosie saying that the Messiah is a Poofter? If so this forum has plumbed to it's lowest level ever.

What is it with this sick puppy's fixation with homosexuality? For those who are only familiar with this forum I can tell you that his sordid fixation has been lingering for two decades. 

And Koosie, for someone who boasts as often and as loudly as you do about your wonderful persona and friends erm umm I once again notice that no one is coming to your rescue. The one friend who did got stabbed in the back by you.

Stay down Dunce or better still, piss-off!


Apr 05, 2019, 06:23

It does seem rather like another instance of self-immolation is imminent. Don't do it Peeper, I'd rather not go through yet another Koos episode.....the painfully laboured construction of the tough guy persona and the aw-shucks acceptance of the bored, universal conclusion that Koos is really Peeper in thinly veiled disguise. It's just too pathetically childish and tedious.

Apr 05, 2019, 06:42

"this forum has plumbed to it's lowest level ever"

Quite right...you just cannot go lower.

The insinuation is quite clear,,,anybody can see that.

This is extremely offensive to not only true Christians but too any decent human being, far worst than calling a black man the offensive K word.

I'm not telling Ed how to administer his forum but if such behaviour is just "winked" at, this forum will disintergrate.

Can you imagine if Beast, Pat Lambie and other christians should browse this forum??

Besides that, anybody for that matter.!

Apr 05, 2019, 07:32

The Tit is too busy beng outraged to actually address the valid issue being raised.

You posted that Jesus became "man of the flesh". Your words, not mine . . . and remember this thread had nothing to do with Jesus until you started preaching . . . and I'm just asking if being a "man of the flesh" includes sexual desires and if that is the case, what was his orientation?

It's a perfectly valid question. 

You brought Jesus onto this thread, Tit, and now when I respond you get all indignant and tearful. What did you think would happen when you started preaching your mealy-mouthed and repetetive sermon . . . that we'd all start singing Hallelujah? Huh? Is that what you thought . . . you self-important and sanctimonious little man?

Draad is the only one attempting to answer and he says "what about Mary Magdalene"? Well what about her? Where in the bible is there any evidence of Jesus having a sexual relationship with Mary Magdalene or any other women?

Where the bible is clear however is that Jesus was never married and the person he loved the most was his disciple John. So, Tit, if you want to start babbling about Jesus being a man of the flesh (again, your words) then deal with the perfectly valid questions arising from that.

Apr 05, 2019, 07:52

The Word became became flesh, full of grace and truth and dwelt amongst us. You have just twisted and perverted it. And yeah one should not cast pearls amongst swine as they will tread them underfoot...exactly to the t whats happened here.

You try to worm out of everything. There is just nothing good in you, no nothing at all..you are just plain evil, theres just no other word for you. I've tried to find one single thing in you that's good, but sadly no...there is just nothing, nothing at all.


Apr 05, 2019, 08:06

Lol Rooi

Always you versus world huh?

Whatever man, the Lions are gonna give you a bad start to the weekend tonight.

Get ready china.

And are you still gonna give zero hints about if I was hot or cold with the above?

Apr 05, 2019, 08:21

"Always you versus world huh?"

Well in this case, me vs the sanctimonious twat who decided he'd like to start preaching about Jesus all over this thread that I started that had nothing to do with Jesus who hadn't been mentioned until Tit came along and started preaching . . . and now when I push him for more clarity on his "man of the flesh" statement he bursts into tears and get's all puffed up with indignation and self-righteousness.

"Whatever man, the Lions are gonna give you a bad start to the weekend tonight.

Get ready china."

I'm ready. My expectations are very low. I expect the Lions will put a big score over us but there are a lot of loud-mouthed Lions supporters here at work who are going to feel pretty sheepish if the Sharks spring a surprise . . . but I admit it would be a big surprise!

"And are you still gonna give zero hints about if I was hot or cold with the above?"

You're cold, Plum. I'm an IT Manager.

Apr 05, 2019, 08:25

"You try to worm out of everything."


No Tit, I'm not trying to worm out of anything. You said Jesus was "a man in the flesh" and I'm asking you if that means he had sexual desires (because if he didn't then he wasn't a real man was he?) and you have since ducked, dived and dodged the valid question . . . so we can all see who is worming out of this discussion . . . that you started . . . and then wished you hadn't!

LMAO!

PS Tit, if it's any consolation, you're not the only bible-basher trying to worm his way out of explaining issues that he raised . . . Klown is being just as big a hypocrite and coward as you on this thread.

Apr 05, 2019, 08:47

You won't believe this but if had to give a list of five jobs I thought you did...IT would have been there.

Anyway, I want the Sharks to improve. But not this weekend.

Brink is back for the Lions. The Sharks have a good chance in my view. If click they can beat any SA team. I like what Dups has tried to do. Just a bummer its taken so long and not quite achieved what it was supposed to. 


Apr 05, 2019, 09:45

That is a stupid question and a one you ask because you are motivated to twist and pervert. Your aims are always to do this and humiliate and belittle people in virtually everything. That's always been your modus operandi. As I said there is just nothing thats nice in you. Never seen such a bitter and nasty person as you appear here...you are ugly in everything you say.

Ofcouse if the Messiah subjected Himself to being a man in the flesh, He had those normally but not for homo desires as you tried to pervert, obviously He felt hunger and thirst, He felt pain and everything else that pertains to being in physical body, He was tempted in the desert by the adversary after fasting for 40 days but overcame temptation...was the only person ever to do this and when He was nailed to the cross and the Roman soldiers drove those nails He felt the excruciating agony and His reaction was Father forgive them for they know not what they are doing. Think about it.

Apr 05, 2019, 10:08

". . . He had those normally but not for homo desires as you tried to pervert . . ."


So you concede that Jesus had sexual desires like any other man but you're 100% convinced that those desires were heterosexual rather than homosexual?

Why? How can you be so sure? The available evidence doesn't support your unquestioning conviction.

Don't get all angry again, consider what I'm saying. We know Jesus was never married, there's no record of him ever having any kind of intimate relationship with a woman, he surrounded himself with men and the person he loved most was his disciple John. Why is it so outrageous to suggest he could have been gay?

Consider also that on his last night on earth - his last night as a mortal man with sexual desires - Jesus went to the Garden of Gethsemane with three of his disciples, he then told them to stay put while he went off by himself and when Judas Iscariot and the Romans came to arrest him,  there was a "young man naked except for a linen cloth" who was "following" Jesus around the Garden.

That's from Mark 14: 51-53 from your Big Book of Fairytales if you don't believe me. 

Again, don't any of you bible-bashers find it a bit strange that Mark included that seemingly unrelated bit of information in his gospel . . . let alone the fact that a young half-naked man was seen with Jesus just before his arrest . . . just before Judas Iscariot kissed him in fact . . . on his very last night on earth?

I don't know about you lot but it makes me wonder what Jesus was arrested for.

Apr 05, 2019, 10:48

It is less offensive calling Jesus gay-  than calling transexual people paedophiles. One is a horrible crime and the other is legal. Is this offensive to Jesus or to your beliefs. 


If it is beliefs, then where was the light brigade when Beeno was on his rampage about transexuals....

Apr 05, 2019, 10:52

And I think the bible-bashers should also note that nowhere have a claimed Jesus was gay, all I've asked is if they've ever considered the possibility . . . and yet you'd swear I helped crucify him such was the outraged response.

Apr 05, 2019, 11:13

I don't accept the sacrifice of Jesus for my sins. He died over 2000 thousand years ago- if he even existed in the first place.


I question how God would send Jesus to go through this horrific pain. 
People are entitled to their own beliefs, but for me, this is at best a story for kindergarten children.

The reality is that the Jews do not accept Jesus as their saviour, and neither do any other religions or people that are non-religious. So I would request that people do not claim Jesus has died for my sins.





Apr 05, 2019, 11:32

Of course it is offensive to both the Son of God and His followers...God never sanctioned for men to chase after men...this is perverted New Age teaching and propagated by a sick and fallen world...that call good evil and evil good. If you don't go with flow of a degraded and degenerated world, they fire the political correctness card at you. Where this term was generated from is obviously a ploy by corrupt politicians who want to control the minds of non thinkers...the intellectual clones. What a man is supposed to be but they don't have the stomachs to be  real men.

As usual trying to raise contraversial issues without any regard for other persons beliefs and raising another subject that many are offended.

If you want sanction to live an undesirable and disturbing lifestyle, I suggest stay there and don't contaminate and disrespect those who live in the right context of the given scriptures.

Apr 05, 2019, 11:35

Sharkbok, I think there's historical evidence that Jesus existed but, like you, I certainly don't believe he died for my sins, turned water into wine, raised anyone from the dead or performed any other supernatural "miracles".

He was a man who preached about his god and he had a following of adherents and zealots who exaggerated his deeds after his death to the extent that they became the "gospels". 

He may well have been a very good man who did good things but he's not my saviour and he's no more the son of god then any other person who's ever lived.

Apr 05, 2019, 11:42

Listen Tit, if you don't want to be offended then put your stupid sermons onto your own threads and I'll happily ignore them. If you prefer to hijack a thread that I started with your preachy sermons then be prepared to defend your views.


Okay chump?

Now stop snivelling and either answer the questions (questions that were prompted by your intrusion on this thread that had nothing at all to do with Jesus until you came along) or else shove off and post your simpering nonsense on your own threads.

Apr 05, 2019, 12:21

Sharkbok, I think there's historical evidence that Jesus existed but, like you, I certainly don't believe he died for my sins, turned water into wine, raised anyone from the dead or performed any other supernatural "miracles".

He was a man who preached about his god and he had a following of adherents and zealots who exaggerated his deeds after his death to the extent that they became the "gospels". 

He may well have been a very good man who did good things but he's not my saviour and he's no more the son of god then any other person who's ever lived.


They believed in Him so much that many of his followers rather died the most horrible tortured deaths than denounce him. You must remember that Christians were persecuted for the first few centuries. 


PS. He was arrested because he caused unrest amongst the Jewish community in Jerusalem.

PPS:D Spare me the lecture of how I'm not allowed to type at you anymore, it serves no purpose.

Apr 05, 2019, 12:25

Type whatever you like, Draad, doesn't lessen the contempt I have for obsequious and fawning Gimps.

Apr 05, 2019, 13:38

Seeing poor rooitwit and sharkbokkie trying to quote scripture is like hearing Satan hissing away.

The whole issue about the flesh is astonishing and rivals sharkboks Christ being crucified on Christmas day or his latest debacle re the Good Samaritan!

Now the peeper perv obsessed with tail pipes now wants to make out.that the sinless Son of God is a homosexual!

The extent of the darkness that these unfortunate scoffers live in is very apparent. 

The stupendously ignorant sharkbokie wonders if Jesus ever walked this earth, the earth He created. 

Do yourself a favour sharkbokie and do some research. You appear to enjoy making a prize ass of yourself like your partner in crime rooijackass. 

It's a terrible thing to see you two raging against your Maker. May the Lord have mercy on you both and may to come to your senses like the raging Saul (who became Paul) did on the road to Damascus. 


Apr 05, 2019, 13:44

Rooitwit anybody who disagrees with you is a fawning Gimp. Bwhahahaha how about you being sharkboks fawning GIMP. 

I am guessing, but if Cloudy reads all this stuff she may fire you as her Gimp. 


Apr 05, 2019, 13:45

Baboon-ou - the dull-witted retard who stamped his foot and insisted that nowhere in the bible does it say the earth was created before the sun (which it does in the very opening line of the Big Book of Fairytales) - talking about other people's ability to quote the scriptures.


LMAO!

What a blithering idiot!

Apr 05, 2019, 14:08

Go and read the the passage again rooitwit. If you had taken the time to watch the Prof Lennox clips I posted you would have a clearer picture. Eg you would not be still trying to say the earth was made in 7 days of 24 hours. 

But as per usual your wee mind is a closed and as bigoted as always  

Are you ready to apologize for your very bad behavior yet. You know you should!

Most importantly you owe God a huge apology. Don't delay! 

Apr 05, 2019, 14:23

I did answer your question but as usual you again when given an answer deny it . I will repeat in amplified version to clarify it, but I doubt it will do any good and you will with Gimp, Snarky start wiggling and hissing and another sarcastic reply will be coming forth.

It was was the testimony of John, one of the disciples.

The Word Made Flesh

14 And the Word (Christ) became flesh, and lived among us; and we [actually] saw His glory, glory as belongs to the [One and] only begotten Son of the Father, [the Son who is truly unique, the only One of His kind, who is] full of grace and truth (absolutely free of deception).


Apr 05, 2019, 14:32

It was known to all that Jesus was thirsty when he said: "I am thirsty". He then transformed water into wine- and everyone celebrated. 

  Sharbok 20:27:04 RuckersForum.

Apr 05, 2019, 15:55

Peeper says this yesterday on this string:

"Drunken old liar claiming I never said Jesus (or Mark) existed but providing zero proof to back up his newest lies."

So fine if I am a liar for claiming you never said Mark existed....show us where you said it before this string.

Apr 06, 2019, 01:19

Is Snooper still with us?....careful now I detect his finger is on the flounce button.

Apr 06, 2019, 06:00

Hahaha! And there you have it...the Sharks did beat the Lions! You never know. Just like who is right and who is wrong on this thread. I see lots of lawyer like worming and squirming...but very little answering of questions. Here's my take. 

The bible cannot be taken literally word for word. It was "written" by men and not by God. But therein lies the problem. When there is disagreement or contradiction, blame the author not the message. It is this fatal flaw in the bible that will forever leave open anything that it states to a multitude of differing interpretations. A more pertinent question is, why did God NOT write the bible and eliminate all doubt? He, being powerful enough to create the universe, could surely have done so.  And in doing so entirely eliminate all fake religions, pastors, interpretations, arguments and so on. The very fact that the bible was written by men, and edited by the all powerfull catholic church, renders it untrustworthy for me. Maybe Jesus existed, maybe he didn't, maybe he was the son of God, maybe he wasn't...it is all meaningless when the source of the information cannot be 100 relied upon, because it has almost certainly been corrupted along the way. Why did God allow this to be the case? Especially being all knowing. Or maybe, just maybe, it is all made up? This seems infinitely more likely, given the evil that has resulted from the lack of clarity and absolute truth missing from the bible. 

Apr 06, 2019, 06:24

You see Bloo you are judging him by your own standards, applying your logic.....and saying because he doesn't meet that test you are unconvinced.

Any Super being who has created what we see is unfathomably different from us, so that test, which we apply to everything else is simply not applicable. Nor are the 'why does he let that happen tests'.

All of which proves nothing definitive, it simply says until such time as God decides to reveal himself......you have to take it on faith....or not. We can't define a pass/fail test.

Apr 06, 2019, 06:25

I have numerous very strong arguments against religion, and in discussions in real life I have made a number of people question their beliefs. In my arrogance I saw this as a sort of affirmation of my intelligence. However, I recently got into such a discussion with my elderly and very religious parents. After nailing home a couple of convincing arguments, and seeing them sink in, I immediately regretted it. When you get to their age and experience deteriorating health, religion offers solace and piece of mind. In that discussion I made them question their beliefs and it caused visible inner conflict. I felt terrble after that.

With that in mind, I don't want to stop anyone from believing what they believe. But I am torn between a deep felt need to point out the blatant flaws in religion and the happiness and  contentment it brings to so many. 

I just wanted to throw that out there. 

Apr 06, 2019, 06:31

Moz, to a large extent I agree with you. I don't believe we have the capacity to comprehend the divine or alternatively the complexity of the universe. But I very much question the ambiguity of religion and the inifinte distress that it causes. 

Apr 06, 2019, 08:49

"But I very much question the ambiguity of religion and the inifinte distress that it causes. "


Caused by man, not God. He sent his Son to show the way. He left the message behind...AND he has written His Law in your heart. The sense of fairness, the sadness you felt when you "disappointed " your parents. ..(I don't think you got them to doubt their faith, they doubt their ability to convince you and that'swhat you saw...big speculation on my part...apologies if I step on toes here)
Thing is, there is Right and wrong and chaos vs Order. Science shows us it should be the other way around. There should not be Good or Evil, right and wrong...or order. Chaos is the natural state.

Apr 06, 2019, 09:41

I don't agree Db, whatever the cause, God allowed the situation to be as it is. I'll single it down to one simple point. There are multiple religions, all with equal claim (and evidence) to being the word of God. And all claiming that any other religion is wrong. It is a massive contradiction. And there is no way to know for sure which one is correct. The cause may be man, but the end result is doubt, and that is God's fault...because he did not provide humanity with a divine book...only conflicting religions, each with their own corrupted version. 

Apr 06, 2019, 10:54

Bluebok arrives on the scene with more drivel. He thinks because he can fool his senile parents he could debate a Prof John Lennox - who have the nutter for breakfast. 

Until you have your eyes open you not understand too much of the Bible and hence we have the breat taking stupidity of Rooitwit and sharkbokkie (joined now by Bluebok) as they stumble around in the dark. 

The heavens declare the Glory of GOD and there is absolute evidence for the CREATION. Just because you refuse to look at it doesn't mean it is not there.

Men prefer the darkness to the light. 

Of course you never truly believe until you have an encounter with the risen Christ. 

What ou blue blob should have some humility and understand that people far more intelligent than him have come to Christ and accepted the Bible as the very word of God once they have been able to understand it.

I know personally I could make no sense of the Bible before the born again experience and so I understand why rooitwit and Sharkbokkie make such amazingly stupid comments!

Come to Christ. Accept Him as Lord and Saviour and the scales will drop from your eyes. Until then the Kingdom of God is hidden from you. 

The Saviour laid down His life to purchase your pardon. Accept that free (to you) pardon and live or be judged for your sins. For there will a day of judgment. Choose life, why will ye perish!

Apr 06, 2019, 10:59

By the way Antony Flew is not the only chest beating arrogant atheist who came to believe in God. And obviously he was far more intelligent than poor Blue blob. 

In the end every knee shall bow and tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is LORD. That is they will have no choice but to acknowledge REALITY. 

Apr 06, 2019, 11:58

Beans you complete idiot. I am not an atheist. Very Christian of you to insult my Christian parents, who I have just mentioned are in declining health. You really are the greatest advocate for people turning away from Christianity. Keep it up...doos! 

Apr 06, 2019, 13:15

By the way Matt Dillahunty is not the only chest beating arrogant christian to turn to Atheism.

Are we going to play a numbers game?

Apr 06, 2019, 16:20

Again Bloo your 'proof' of multiple religions is applying human logic. There may be very good reasons that we can't appreciate for God revealing himself differently to various peoples.

The net of all this, for me at least, is tolerance. We will never have an answer, so allow people to believe what they wish, what makes sense of their lives.

As for the downside of religion, it has given us far more than it has taken away.....and when people are dying of Ebola and things are really terrifying, those that go to help are Doctors Without Borders, the US military and the priests. They all walk towards the danger and I respect that more than all the money Jeff Bezos gave his wife.

Apr 06, 2019, 20:42

Yes Blue, you are arguing about God as if He is a political party AND AS IF ALL THE THINGS HUMANS SAY ABOUT HIM IS EITHER TRUE OR FALSE.

I say that God engrained Himself in our DNA and we can either choose Him or reject Him...and by rejecting Him, I mean rejecting your conscience. 

Blue, do you have kids?  

Apr 06, 2019, 21:02

Sader, forget about Christians ATM. What was it that Jesus said or did that pissed you off. Was it the turning the other cheek thing? ...or the forgive thy neighbor??? What wassit that got you so angry?

Apr 06, 2019, 21:16

"I say that God engrained (sic) Himself in our DNA and we can either choose Him or reject Him"


I see . . . so by default god is in us and the rejection of said god is an unnatural act?

I have a contrary view. I don't think our DNA is ingrained with any supernatural being and the acceptance of a god is something we do because our parents send us to Sunday School and teach us the bible. 

As we grow up, intelligent people who are capable of independent thought accept the fact that while the bible (or Koran or Talmud or whatever) teaches us good values, it becomes quite restricting as we start to question our purpose in life and we gradually let go of those childish scriptures and doctrines and begin to think for ourselves.

Stupid people who think that blind faith is a good thing never let go of their religion and are closed minded and rather child-like for the rest of their lives.

Apr 06, 2019, 21:38

Geez Draad again with the angry shit?

When will you get it through your head non believers are not angry at your made up friend. 

Maybe its more to do with the arrogance of you lot who keep telling us what god is and what he wants, none of you know shit about a god let alone what he wants of us if he does exist. I know you and your kind struggle to understand the fact that most people dont believe your nonsense but get over it. Your religion is no better or worse than any of the other religions out there, why should I believe you and choose your version?

I am sorry draad but I cannot believe any of christianity is true but its not my fault as god made me this way apparently.



Apr 07, 2019, 09:18

"Geez Draad again with the angry shit?"


Ironic because anyone with a bit of objectivity reading these threads on religion will tell you that it's the bible-bashers who get all irate when other people don't agree with them or share their juvenile and outdated views.

The other thing that gets me with the god-botherers is whenever they're debating with someone who doesn't believe in a god, a son of god or the bible; their "arguments" are along the lines of "but he's the son of god" or "the bible clearly says . . .".

Just have a laugh, Crusadersfan . . . and poke them with a stick every now and then to get them all puffed up and indignant.

Apr 07, 2019, 11:21

Rooi, I never cite scripture to prove something...and I think I've ever quoted a verse once and that was in jest....and as for my anger...I don't get angry that often, but when I do, it's got nothing to do with religion or someone else's opinion on something, but all to do with someone being a real d!ck.

  1. Sader you react like an angry person...bit let's forget that for a moment. Let me change the question. What about how Jesus lived and what he tought (allegedly) don't you like?
  2. Do you believe in a Historical Jesus?
  3. Is everything written in the Bible BS or are there some historical truths?

Apr 07, 2019, 12:07

Of course there are some historical truths like Bethleham exists and they had mangers back in the day but the resurection and the healing of the sick by magic not at all. Genesis is complete bollocks and thats the first page.

Was there a person called jesus that went around preaching, maybe possible, was he the son of god, unlikely  because as far as I can tell there is no god so a bit hard for an imaginery being to have a son

I dont have a problem with love and peace and treat others well, in fact I like to think I follow those principles as they are a human trait not a gods command. Dont need a religion to have morals as proven by beeno as he has religion and no morals so he proves I am correct on this as far as I am concerned.

I have a question for you Draad, how do you know that the bible is gods word, and why should I believe it is. All I have is some people telling me it is but with not one shread of evidence it is anything but myths told by uneducated desert dwellers

Apr 07, 2019, 16:59

Poke them with a stick.....yep that rings true. You probably poked animals with sticks and pulled the wings off flies as a kid huh Peeper? Sociopath showing his true colours again. Sick-ou!

Apr 07, 2019, 20:14

I have a question for you Draad, 1 how do you know that the bible is gods word, and 2 why should I believe it is. 

1. Faith and personal XP

2. You will believe it when you need to. I'm not asking you to believe anything. It is what it is, regardless of your belief.

Apr 07, 2019, 21:26

Well personal experience and faith tell me the bible/god is a load of cobblers so that shows how completely unreliable and useless they are.

When will I need to believe it? Millions of people have gone to the grave not believing it and I am 99.9% certain I will be one of them as well, Does that mean I just dont need your god or your god doesnt give a shit about me (and millions of others)?

Apr 07, 2019, 21:54

You don't need to believe anything for it to be true. What I do know is that if there is something like judgement,  I'd rather be judged by Jesus than anyone else.

I'm not in it to avoid hell, I'm in because it's the right thing to do. If everyone in the world lived by the example He set, Earth would be Paradise. 

Apr 07, 2019, 22:22

Poking Draad Trekker with a stick is great fun :D

Image result for poke stick

Apr 08, 2019, 01:35

Pity the same can't be said about his father as his message is mass genocide and enslavement of all but the favoured few.

Also just because you believe it does not make it true either.

Apr 08, 2019, 07:24

Pity the same can't be said about his father as 1.his message is mass genocide and enslavement of all but the favoured few.

2. Also just because you believe it does not make it true either.

1. Perspective ??? Enslavement?

2. That wasn't my argument. 

Apr 08, 2019, 07:48

1) The bible clearly supports genocide and the keeping of slaves so therefore if its the word of god then god supports both. I dont see what is so hard for you to understand about this. 

If you want an education on this part search for Matt Dillahunty and slavery on youtube. He quotes the passages in the bible that refer to this.

2) No it wasn't your argument but your statement "You don't need to believe anything for it to be true" it works both ways you know, just because you believe something does not make it true either. 


Apr 08, 2019, 08:22

It's funny. Atheists and agnostics are so often just as ignorant in their argumrnts as what they claim religious people are for believing.

Your faith that the world is as you believe it to be, is still faith.

You might say that you are open to new information, and you very well might be. 

You're still operating on a paradigm based on the faith that what you know thus far is true...for now.

Being open to new information just means you're willing to shift your paradigm.

At no point does faith in information become irrelevant. And you base your world view on it.

Pick on Draad all you like but at least his a world view encompasses various angles. That's what leads to understanding.



Apr 08, 2019, 09:21

Thanks for at least seeing that Plum.

You don't need to be narrow minded if you are a Christian and some Atheists are very narrow minded.:D

I should probably stop replying to the baiting, but what would be the fun in that?

Apr 08, 2019, 09:24

Sader, do you work for a living?...If you are, you are a slave in Biblical terms. 

Apr 08, 2019, 10:13

Draad

Anyone trying to shit on what you believe is just really showing how insecure they are in what they believe. 

Just like the guy trying to tell you how smart he is, how strong he is, how happy he is, how whatever he is.

Its easy to pretend you're content with something. Much tougher to actually believe it yourself.

Apr 08, 2019, 10:21

Plum, I'm INTP on Myers-Briggs...bordering on ENTP...and I have quite severe adult ADHD....In short, I'm compulsively connecting dots all the time and I can smell BS a mile off.

Things need to make sense.

Apr 08, 2019, 10:31

"Your faith that the world is as you believe it to be, is still faith."


Nonsense, there's a very clear distinction between belief and faith.

We believe things because we ask questions and find evidence to support those beliefs.

Faith is believing in something without questioning why and without even wanting to question why.

Apr 08, 2019, 10:38

I have no faith in how I see the world, I have facts to support what I believe, I do not have all the facts but at least I have some, something which christians cannot claim to have. Faith is no reason to believe anything.

And yes Draad I work for a living, but are you trying to tell me working for a living is the same as being a slave? I tell you what go tell the descendants of the slave trade that slavery is a fine thing as their ancestors were just employees and they only worked a 40 hour week and got 4 weeks holiday a year along with a decent wage, they were free to quit and go work somewhere else if they wanted. They got a nice 4 bedroom house to live in with clean sheets and if they wanted a rest they wouldn't get beaten with a whip

Fuck man you are seriously deluded if your idea of slavery is just working for a living with all the rights of a free man. Is there anything you will not say or believe just because it puts your bible in a bad light. Next you will be telling me a stoning for working on the sabath isnt that bad its not like they are using bolders just small rocks.

Apr 08, 2019, 10:39

Draad I actually own my own company and have employees, does that mean I am a slave master?

Apr 08, 2019, 10:43

Plum so that explains why so many christians are trying to convince us to convert to their belief.

I get plenty of religious nutters knocking on my door try to convert me but never had an atheist turn up to. Are you telling me that all christians are therefore insecure in their beliefs?

Apr 08, 2019, 10:49

"I get plenty of religious nutters knocking on my door try to convert me but never had an atheist turn up to."


Maybe we should start an evangelical atheist movement. Can you imagine the look on Baboon-ou's face if you had to knock on his door and ask to come in so you could tell him how stupid and small-minded his faith is?

LMAO!

PS Of course, in Baboon-ou's case it's not so much a door to the house as a gate to the enclosure . . . but I'm sure the results would be the same.

Apr 08, 2019, 11:00

Plum says some amazing truths and does have good reasoning powers but I don't intend to flatter him.

He once said that in a way, we are all hypocrits...that is very true, we all are guilty because of fallen man but some are more hypocritical than others.

The paradox though is that unbelievers are in most cases are more hypocritical in what I've observed without prejudice...it is this tendancy that they use as an excuse to be heathen...they think it is valid and justifies what they believe or more aptly to not believe.

It is just a smoke screen or red herring because a true believer does not look to man at all as a leader or mentor teacher at all...he knows you cannot trust any man, we are all fallen and "people worship" is very misleading and dangerous. You can only follow a perfect flawless Figurehead, who is not fallen and flawed.

You cannot blame your unbelief because some Christians errors, that is no excuse as there is only One that ticks all boxes and that is Christ alone, the perfect one.

Apr 08, 2019, 11:13

". . . and that is Christ alone, the perfect one."


The perfect "one"? I thought he was three different entities . . . so shouldn't that be the "perfect three"?

Apr 08, 2019, 11:14

Rooi

It's all faith and belief. 

Sure there might be hard "facts" that point in one direction but those facts are only snippets of a much larger picture. This applies to both spiritual and scientific ways of looking the world.

What lays beyond what you/humans have figured out or understood might make what you know right now entirely incorrect and incompatible with reality at large. And where does that leave "fact"? Fleeting at best.

For example, at our level of perception and at the subatomic scale, there are entirely different rules that apply. A fact here, is not a fact there. A rule here, is a joke there. 

You are talking entirely from a position of belief when you jest about a bearded and all powerful being that created this reality and how it's a huge fairytale. How is a God's existence any stranger than the difference between ours and the subatomic world. And then what world exists beneath the sub-atomic one?

Right at this moment, the sub-atomic particles in your body are behaving in ways that are literally the definition of magic. Disappearing here, re-appearing there. Changing their rotation by invisible and instantaneous action from across the universe....and on and on.

And what world exists above the one that you play your life out in? What rules apply there and what being/s inhabit that place?

Answer any of those questions with fact and i'll happily retract my statement.

For now, accept that "facts" are beliefs adopted by your central nervous system so as to make it easier for you to cope in what is for all intents and purposes a magical universe.

 


Apr 08, 2019, 11:16

"Apr 08, 2019, 10:39


Draad I actually own my own company and have employees, does that mean I am a slave master?"


To a certain extent, yes. I hope you are a good one.:D

Apr 08, 2019, 11:26

"Right at this moment, the sub-atomic particles in your body are behaving in ways that are literally the definition of magic. "


"For now, accept that "facts" are beliefs adopted by your central nervous system so as to make it easier for you to cope in what is for all intents and purposes a magical universe."

Sorry, I don't believe in magic. The sub-atomic particles in my body are obeying the rules of nature, science, gravity and whatever other rules they've always obeyed and will continue to obey. No magic involved at all. 

"And what world exists above the one that you play your life out in? What rules apply there and what being/s inhabit that place?"

I'm only aware of this world that I live in. I have no evidence of any other worlds above or below this one so I have no idea what rules apply in those other places you speak of or what being/s live there. 

Apr 08, 2019, 11:30

""I get plenty of religious nutters knocking on my door try to convert me but never had an atheist turn up to."


Maybe we should start an evangelical atheist movement. Can you imagine the look on Baboon-ou's face if you had to knock on his door and ask to come in so you could tell him how stupid and small-minded his faith is?"

LMAO!! Too late:


"The Atheist Bus Campaign was an advertising campaign in 2008 and 2009 that aimed to place "peaceful and upbeat" messages about atheism on transport media in Britain, in response to evangelical Christian advertising.[1]


It was created by comedy writer Ariane Sherine and launched on 21 October 2008, with official support from the British Humanist Association and Richard Dawkins.[2] The campaign's original goal was to raise £5,500 to run 30 buses across London for four weeks early in 2009 with the slogan: "There's probably no god. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."


Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion, agreed to match all donations up to a maximum of £5,500, providing a total of £11,000 if the full amount were to be raised. The campaign reached that target by 10:06AM on 21 October and had raised £100,000 by the evening of 24 October. The campaign closed on 11 April 2009, having raised a total of £153,523.51.[3]


The first buses started running on 6 January 2009 – 800 ran around the UK and it was also planned to place 1,000 adverts on the London Underground featuring quotations from famous atheists. There were also two large LCD screens placed on Oxford Street, central London.[4]"



Lol, fund raising and all! You can Google the rest and I'm sure you'll find something similar quite often. Atheists have been "evangelising" for a very long time!  

Apr 08, 2019, 11:43

No one, can understand the mystery of true conversion to Christ, it is folly to the natural man. You can argue till you are blue in the face. Spiritual things and natural things are quite different in most ways although in many ways they are compatable.

When people are truly seeking the truth and the meaning of life and what's it all about they often start searching in the bible. They start with the Old Testament which is very difficult to understand without inspiration or without "spiritual eyes" (excuse this term).

My suggestion is to read the Gospels first...in this context you can see the main theme...the arriving of a Messiah/Saviour...the Old Testament are the Israelite interactions with God, the legalities (difficult to understand) message and prophecies of a coming Messiah.

The new testament gets to the message quickly and is far easily understood.

I was an out and out hard arse unbeliever once, probably far worse than Crusaderfan or even Rooinek, believe me.

Nobody is beyond redemption...it is the hard-arses that fall hardest...it's very frustrating people misunderstand our motives...they think we want to prove a point or make "conversion sales", no we don't, rather leave that to the Mormons or JW's.

We do that because it's so good we want to share.

Apr 08, 2019, 11:54

"Gospel" in Afrikaans is "Die Blye Boodskap"....Good News or Happy Message.

Apr 08, 2019, 12:01

"I was an out and out hard arse unbeliever once, probably far worse better than Crusaderfan or even Rooinek, believe me."


Fixed.

Apr 08, 2019, 12:28

I do not rule out the possibility of there being a god of some sort and I think it is very unlikely but I do now one thing if there is a god it is nothing like the christian god in any way (or any of the other religions man has invented). 

For all you christians do you really believe that noahs ark actually happened and it happened 4,500 years ago?

And Seb what happened to make you become a christian, and why christianity and not one of the other religions?

Apr 08, 2019, 12:39

I have known people that became reborn again Christians. They became worse people, using an objective criterion such as the Good Samaritan parable. They became fickle and fake and totally self-obsessed. 

Many people are just religious because they believe it will increase their chances of an afterlife. They bend the bible to compromise it to suit their beliefs-  then convince themselves they are good people. Beeno and Clean Cut are classic examples

I believe if people were not exposed to religion as young children they would be less susceptible to the manipulative brainwashing strategies the Church uses.

A long time ago I shared a house with someone training to become a priest. The qualification is like a doctrine. I read some of his books - and you would be surprised that most of the training had nothing to do with the Bible itself. Topics covered were rhetoric and the art of persuasion, public speaking, communication skills etc. Much of the stuff was from the ancient Greeks- that the Church used to hoard during the dark ages- when the Church reigned supreme. 

Priests that leave the church often find themselves in sales jobs because they are good bullshiters- and have no qualms lying 

Apr 08, 2019, 14:06

"I do not rule out the possibility of there being a god of some sort and I think it is very unlikely but I do now one thing if there is a god it is nothing like the christian god in any way (or any of the other religions man has invented). You know that this is a nonsensical argument...and more a statement of belief/faith than a statement based on reason?

For all you christians do you really believe that noahs ark actually happened and it happened 4,500 years ago? (I don't believe in a global flood, but rather a local or regional flood. I believe there was a man who build some sort of vessel in which he transported some animals and people during this flood.

And Seb what happened to make you become a christian, and why christianity and not one of the other religions? 

Apr 08, 2019, 14:30

"I believe there was a man who build some sort of vessel in which he transported some animals and people during this flood."


Surely Noah's Ark was an all-or-nothing affair? What was the point of transporting "some" of the animals? 

If the other animals that didn't make it onto the Ark survived the flood and are still around today then what was the point of the Ark in the first place?

Also, I know certain people think it's a stupid question but all this water that covered the earth, where did it recede to?

Apr 08, 2019, 14:40

 "(I don't believe in a global flood, but rather a local or regional flood."

Apr 08, 2019, 14:53

I actually believe Shark...there are plenty of counterfeit Christians that claim to be "born again" but in fact are not. You don't get saved by being religious and going to church.. there are false teachers, false prophets and as a result manipulated changes by these shysters to make money by preaching a gospel that appeals to the flesh and can in fact make you worst.

The guy that Shark sticks on his avatar does not look like that at all...he was created as beautiful powerful being, and indeed very intelligent... an angel but fell from grace because he set up himself up to challenge the Almighty and tried to rebel...his vanity brought him down.

Satan, (Lucifer) is powerful and attractive...he has many followers...he reigns supreme worldwide, ie in Hollywood and even has a church there...Satanism, he choses in particular centres of influence and affluence and infiltrates minds of intellect and simple alike.

He appears more often as an angel of light...he is a master of deceit...he creeps into those areas by disguise...he entices people with subtle lies...he never tells blatant lies, he uses some truth and more often probably more truth with a little dash of deadly poison.

If a person wanted to kill somebody by poisoning them they would not give them arsenic in a neat form, they would lace small doses over a period into a tasty dish...that's very obvious. He works in the same manner. He does good works, is attractive and sounds very authentic.

When you are truly saved you can discern him but you must always be aware of his strategies because if you don't put on your armour of God you too can be a target.

He generally does not concentrate on those outside but moves right into the church of God and I'm not talking of buildings but the real church is those believers who have been redeemed and repented of their sins and as a result live in the true light of Gods grace. It's a choice thing...it's something we can all have...a gift that only becomes yours if you accept it, it is never automatic or an experience...it's a very practical decision of choice.


Apr 08, 2019, 15:13

"don't believe in a global flood, but rather a local or regional flood."


So you're calling bullshit on the Bible?

I think your god was quite specific that it was in fact the whole earth he was going to flood . . . "I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish" so I don't think that could possibly be confused with a local or regional flood.

Okay then Draad, so if you're saying the biblical version is just a fairytale (which it is) then it sounds like we're making some progress here at long last!

Apr 08, 2019, 15:52

And Seb what happened to make you become a christian, and why christianity and not one of the other religions?

I take this as a sincere question and hope you are not just mocking my belief.

Anyhow I will try to be brief.

First of all I did look everwhere for the answers but the bottom line is that Christ was the only one that overcame death. He rose from the dead. No other has done that.

Secondly, I found it incredible that a man that claimed to be the Son of God was different...He forgave His enemies even as they nailed Him to the cross, this is not normal...certainly I have never heard or seen anybody doing it.

Thirdly He spoke with such truth, sense and did show the true meaning of care and love.

Fourthly, these are not words that I ever read before. I considered the following that He was either a conman and outrageous charlatan and the worst liar ever known to man or He was telling the truth and only the truth.

Finally when I got to the last question, I decided that it must be truth as there could not be a middle course.

He claimed to be the Son of God, it either was true or it was the biggest con ever...His actions and manner and the effect He had on people did not show any fault or flaw...He was beyond criticism. Also He had  power to forgive all my sin which I knew in my heart were many.

I was either going to believe in everything He said or not.

I made a choice to believe Him. Once I had taken this choice I started to change and a complete release of life's burdens were gone. I am free and happy. My attitude is different...I can feel compassion for the least lovable and yes it indeed is a miracle. I'm not ashamed to be called a follower...yes you get mocked and many times for some strange reason rejected but He said that would be the case. I can now call God Father.

PS There were other things too that became very apparent, ie when previously I often called out to God but it was dark and empty because God is Holy and Perfect and cannot answer an unredeemed person as the sin blocks, once Christ deals the sin problem you now have access to God and He hears you.


Apr 08, 2019, 16:06

"so if you're saying the biblical version is just a fairytale "

No I am not. I'm saying the Bible is neither a History book or a science textbook. It's a record of how God interacted with mankind, from a human perspective. Genesis was written thousands of years after the events it describes happened. The finer detail is not important. 

Jesus teached almost exclusively by parables and example. Why should the Old Testament (or Torah portion of it) be any different? Genesis was written from the perspective of the people of the time. Odd that they got the sequence of "evolution" right, all except for the 4th day? 

PS, for someone calling others Bible-bashers, you sure quote scripture a lot.:D

Apr 08, 2019, 16:29

Peeper Poker debating the existence of man but he is floored by a circle inside a square.........hilarious stuff from the Stupidissimo!

Apr 08, 2019, 17:34

Floored?


Pffffffffffffftt.

Moffie, be sure to let me know when I say something as incredibly stupid and ignorant as the length of a day is measured by the speed that the sun rotates and then you can laugh all day . . . as I've been doing!

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaha!

Apr 08, 2019, 17:42

The "finer detail" is not important?


It's not "fine detail" Draad. The one version is the entire planet being flooded, breeding pairs of every species known to man being loaded onto a wooden boat and all other living things not on the boat being wiped out . . . the other is a regional flood with some animals being selected for saving but the others surviving anyway and the rest of the planet unaffected.

Those aren't finer details, those are two completely different fairytales. An apocaplyptic mass extinction event vs a bit of regional flooding.

Some of you bible-bashers are quite selective about which bits of the bible are real and which are just "parables". I have more respect for the bible-bashers who take it all literally . . . you pickers and choosers are not only stupid but you're lacking in conviction as well.

Apr 08, 2019, 18:13

The whole human population of Earth was probably confined to that are. It was no minor flood and from the perspective of those surviving, the world ended.

Rooi, explain order in the universe. Order from chaos. Cause and effect. Explain how things started to become more comlex instead of deteriorating.

Explain good and evil and why some things are right and others wrong. There are some universal truths. There are clear paterns in everything that exist. The chance of all that happening by chance is mathematically impossible...even in 13.5 Billion years. Hell, you can round that up to 20 Billion.

The Bible does not prove any of this, but it does give an possible explanation science can't really do at this stage. You are preoccupied by the possible contradictions in the Bible, what about the consistencies? None according to you.

None as blind as those who refuse to even look.

Apr 08, 2019, 18:51

Apr 04, 2019, 16:06

"Draad, in my last post to you when I explained how little I care for the opinion of a fawning, grovelling little suck-up did you not understand what I meant or did you just flat out not believe me . . . or is there some other reason why you're still yapping away at me?"


What gives?

Apr 08, 2019, 19:10

Oh, we're back there, are we?


Okay . . .

Apr 08, 2019, 20:04

If the whole world was under water around 5000 years ago, there would certainly be evidence of this. God made it clear that he killed all life by drowning them - except for the residents of the Ark. God also said that next time he would burn everyone- with no survivors. 

Apr 08, 2019, 20:17

Apr 08, 2019, 19:10

Oh, we're back there, are we?


Okay . . .

Where exactly is "back there"?

I don't know, you seem to take things literally when it suits you...and well, other times you just say things to be contrary. .it seems...hence the Q.

Apr 08, 2019, 23:09

Thanks for replying Seb and it was a serious question for if you were as staunch an atheist as me then it is a big turn around to become a believer.

Sorry that I cant see how you came to the answers that you did, The first and biggest question is whether the bible is true and there is just so much that defies logic and obviously wrong that I can only come to the conclussion that it is almost certainly not the word of god. The day I become a believer is when god reveals himself to me (and I dont mean something like his image on a piece of burnt toast or on a dogs bum) or possibly all religions become united and believe the same thing.

My one question is you mention that everything was dark and empty, what do you mean by this? I hear words to this effect quite often but not sure what they mean, is it just feeling lonely? I live in a world free from a god but I dont experience being in a dark and empty world at all, I find it is the complete opposite to this.

Apr 08, 2019, 23:15

Peeper Poker picked a peck of pickled peppers.....the 1000 minute day ....the earth spinning on the sun....the unfathomable circle within a square....the huge thrashing the Sharks were going to get, the rotten backstab and then the vindictive Jesus is gay claim because supposedly he believes Mark, but only in that one instance.

That would be a full year's work....but Peeper outdid his maker and pulled it off in less than 7 days.

And having made a total fool of himself, he's still launching his nasty little attacks. Funny how the truly stupid are completely unaware of their condition.

Apr 08, 2019, 23:37

'The length of a day - as most people - know - is the speed at which the earth spins on its axis, not the sun.'

So the speed at which the Earth spins on it's axis......hence the 1000 minute day.......and not the speed the earth spins on the sun, ignoring it's gaseous state making spinning on the sun a tad tricky!

Hahahaha ......a double barreled classic.....never to be forgotten!

Apr 09, 2019, 02:08

A day is 1440 minutes. (24 x 60 minutes)

Apr 09, 2019, 04:38

That's the accepted view....Peeper, however, believes the day is as long as the speed of the earth's rotation......roughly one thousand miles per hour. So the debate was, is it 1000 minutes or hours....settled in favour of minutes. Happy hour comes much earlier!

Apr 09, 2019, 07:14

No, Moffie is wriggling like crazy and trying to muddy the waters to deflect attention away from his statement that his supreme being spun the sun "like a top" to determine the length of a day. 


I corrected Moffie and told hm it is the speed of the earth's rotation that determines the length of a day - not the sun's - and he started with all this childish semantics rubbish about the speed of the equator and whatever other nonsense he thought might change the subject.

Oh well, it worked with Draad. Draad was applauding his Massster's cleverness . . . on the same thread where he had the sun's rotation measuring the length of a day!!! How funny is that?

LMAO!

Apr 09, 2019, 09:14

I corrected Moffie and told hm it is the speed of the earth's rotation that determines the length of a day - not the sun's - and he started with all this childish semantics rubbish about the speed of the equator and whatever other nonsense he thought might change the subject.

Oh well, it worked with Draad. Draad was applauding his Massster's cleverness . . . on the same thread where he had the sun's rotation measuring the length of a day!!! How funny is that?

No, I commented at you "falling in your own pit" The  comment had nothing to do with Moz. I know what you meant, but that's not what you said....

"childish semantics rubbish"??? LMAO!!! Look who's talking!

Apr 09, 2019, 14:26

Poor Peeper started the 'childish semantics rubbish'and had his head handed to him. How stupid do you have to be to make a big deal of a common figure of speech.......and then make two glaringly stupid mistakes about the length of the day and the surface of the sun. All in the most poorly constructed sentence ever on these Boards,

Eat your crow quietly you fool.

Apr 09, 2019, 14:53

Ja, en nou is ek n gatkruiper omdat ek dink dis snaaks.

Apr 09, 2019, 16:17

Here are a few more classic foot shoots:

'Surely Noah's Ark was an all-or-nothing affair? What was the point of transporting "some" of the animals?

If the other animals that didn't make it onto the Ark survived the flood and are still around today then what was the point of the Ark in the first place?'

............. .....

So Peeper Poker didn't want to transport 'some' of the animals, he wanted to transport 'all' of them. How big would that ark have to have been? Bigger than a Super Tanker for sure!

Now I suppose we can cut the fool some slack and infer he meant 'all the species', not 'all the animals', in his incredibly inept sentence. But given how stupid he is I'm betting on 'all the animals'.

And they had some amazing animals in those days which are 'still around today'....by most estimates those cows, goats etc are north of 3500 years old and according to Peeper, still going strong

LMAOFY&Y!

Apr 09, 2019, 19:43

At Crusaderfan

My one question is you mention that everything was dark and empty, what do you mean by this? I hear words to this effect quite often but not sure what they mean, is it just feeling lonely? I live in a world free from a god but I dont experience being in a dark and empty world at all, I find it is the complete opposite to this.


I don't want to ramble on and on, ie overkill if you get my drift...it's something deep and personal but it's like a crossroad in life and this song by Don McLean says it better than I can explain.

https://youtu.be/ea0mD2QSq1w

Apr 10, 2019, 06:49

Silence from the Peeper on the Noah fleet and the immortal cow....probably the best policy.

Apr 10, 2019, 09:04

If Noah's arc is taken as a figurative story then it is fine by me, but if it is taken as fact, as it is by many, then it is utter rubbish. The bible gives the ark's specifications (+-137m Long, 22m wide and 13m high). If every species that has ever existed and that currently exists (because evolution is apparently not real) was on the ark there was simply not enough space. Also, they were all on the ark for a year, so that would have been all the food for all those animals, and humans for one whole year. I wonder what meat the carnivores ate that didn't go rotten after a couple of days? Or maybe that would explain the disappearance of the unicorn, loch ness, bigfoot and the yeti...after all, they must have eaten something right? They could have eaten fish I suppose, though, given the massive number of carnivores like T-Rex's, Lion, Bears etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc and the limited fishing technology available at the time....catching all that fish would have been quite a task. It all just smacks of a stupid fallacy! Any counter argument is nothing more than a silly attempt to create clutter and distraction from the facts of the story. Anyway, the story is part of the old testament. You know, the one that approves of slavery, the murder of gays and the stoning to death of those that work on the sabbath. All those chapters and stories are not to be taken seriously though because the old testament is just a prequel, and is not to be confused with the actual bible, alternatively known as the new testament. 


Its a pleasure. Anything else ya'll need me to make sense of for you?  

Apr 10, 2019, 09:28

It's the same old story, bluebok, the bible-bashers like to pick and choose which bits of the bible are to be taken literally and which bits are figurative or "parables" . . . but only they know which bits those are.


I actually have more respect for the bible literalists . . . even if it means that some of the stuff they believe is utterly ridiculous as you demonstrated in your post above . . . but at least they're consistent and not just picking and choosing the bits that suit their current argument.

Apr 10, 2019, 15:59

Peeper has more respect for Bible literalists.....as if anybody would give a damn about his respect. But since he feels that way, one has to assume when he says 'all the animals' he means 'all the animals'.

How large would the fleet have to be Backstabber?

LMAOFY&Y!

Apr 11, 2019, 21:45

Yes rooitwit when Jesus says I am the door, we don't take him litterally. 

I guess you would and hence a reason why you have no clue whatsoever. :D

 
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