Who's winning?

Forum » Beenos Trumpet » Who's winning?

May 30, 2024, 09:35

updates asseblief.

May 30, 2024, 10:23


It look like the A NC losing will be lsoing  24 seats in Parliamnt - which  will still leave t hemm 24 seats in Parliament which will leave them with 230 seats in Parliament with parliament having  400 seats. 

It seems that the DA will still be the main opposition party with circa 84 seats  - with  Zumas Party third  and the EFF with circa 53 many less and the othe seats (circa 28 won by the minor small parties,   

A coaition will not be necessary.   

S eems the idiot ill neve learn - the oor are worse off than they ever have been - th e corrfupt is ruling  and ruining the country.     

May 30, 2024, 10:26

Ja it's a shame, hope the DA makes some inroads into more provinces.

May 30, 2024, 13:37

Live updates, Denny.

May 30, 2024, 14:45

Tx Pakie....I know it's early days but is that an improvement by the DA from the previous election?

May 30, 2024, 15:49

Slight improvement for the DA overall so far, but not much. MK has probably hurt the ANC more than anything, especially in KZN and Gauteng. If you click through on the detailed results dashboard you can compare previous election results.

May 30, 2024, 19:41


I checked the rsults and background and the Election Commission says that only 55% of th votes has been colunted - mainly from rural reas and small counting  districts.    The main cities and even smaller towns like Riversdale has only couned about 48% of the a heavy DA area as well as Mosell Bay and George are in the same boat.

Incidentally in 2021 In the local Municipal the ANC won in 4 wards in the election - thus far it ndicates that the ANC would have lose 2 of the 4 seats they captured.

I cannot see how the ANC would make u a higher perentage of the votes in cities - where they are unpopular.   

In KaZulu Natal - the MK Party under Zuma got 45% of the votes thus far - but the Durban Votes have not been counted yet.   The MK Party is based entirely on tribalism. with Zuma as its figure-head  -  the MK would be lucky to get more than 35% in the  Durban and Coastal ares south of  the Tugela River - with large White, Indian and colored communities the vote will be split to the diasadvantage of the MK party.

Fact is that the EEF and MK Parties got virtually only combined an increase of 5% of the votes and that put them as two parties with about 70 MP's.

Sorry - my previous comments were based on media reports and apparently based on claims of the ANC.  If the ANC remains on the 42,5% figure  - there number of Parliament seats would be  170 seats in Parliament and they will have to get negotiation partners - and that is where there would be a problem for that party would be to get  partners.   The ANC would be split down the middle if they choose the Zuma Party or the EFF.    Both are totally corrupt entitities and it will destroy the ANC in future.   A move to the center will be their best route to go - but the DA and their smaller Party partner allies will not support Ramaphosa as presidetial candidate and would prefer  Mrs Pandor as President.   She ahs a record of being centrist and nobody has ever claimed that she is corrupt.

Wonder what will happen over the next 14 days,    One can only hope that the parties dealw ith the issue responsibly and not cause havoc in SA and could lead to a civil war in SA.                      .      

May 30, 2024, 20:35

I heard that final results will be announced on Sunday ?

May 30, 2024, 20:53

You wanna know how dumb a country South Africa is...people are voting for Zuma.

I get that people are dumb enough to vote for Malema, but Zuma!!!???

My partner's uncle is a huge Zuma fan and has written some books on him. Perhaps one day I'll be bored enough read one of them and then perhaps retract the above statement.

...but for now, I still believe that you have to have the IQ of an umbrella to vote for that scumbag.

May 31, 2024, 05:25


The issue is ugly - the Zulus feel that Zuma is their man and leader and the rest of the tribes hates him as a criminal.   So tribalism is the factor in this case - nothing else.   Looking at the ICC maps it seems that large areas in Johannesburg and Pretoria has not been counted and certified yet.   The  same applies to Cape Town, Durban and Port Elizabeth as well,   Counting in cities like  Bloemfontein and East London has not been completed either.

Last night th e ANC had 42,5% support - this morning it is down to 42,33% and it may go dwn fiurther when teh  city votes come in.   A down slide of more tan 1% will cost the ANC 10 seats in Parliament.    Each seat account foir circa 15 000 votes and tht one i going to coast them that number of votes as a result.    Only about 58% of the voters actually turnrf up to vote and that is not the the number of vtes the ANC claimed was the highest turnout ever for the country.

I like everybody else in SA is bothered about what would happen over the next two weeks.   before Parliament meets to discuss who would be elected as President.    Both the EFF and Zuma Party hate Ramaphosa and they would not support him - while the DA wil not support h him either.   I will give Ramaphosa one chance and that is near to zero to continue as President.  But who would th e ANC eventually decide to support?    It would in fact be Mrs Pandor or the present Minister of Heatth - but what will ahppen in that devided party is uncertain.

It must also be borne in mind that the ANC never considered the potential loss of majority in Parliament and with a  lot of finger-pointing going on  that will be ugly.   


                               .                   .           

May 31, 2024, 05:25

Dupliation  .           

May 31, 2024, 06:15


May 31, 2024, 07:47

The interesting part here is that the ANC lost their Parliamentary majority in SA due to bribery, corruption and maladminsitration.   Will the same happen in the USA in November for exactly the same reasons prevailing under the corrupt Biden regime?   What will happen next in SA nobody knows.    

May 31, 2024, 09:05

You wanna know how dumb a country South Africa is...people are voting for Zuma.

Names and faces, that's what a vast number of people vote for. Zuma could have made his campaign slogan "Let's hand KZN to the Xhosas" and the Zulus would still vote for MK just because his stupid face is on the poster.

Jun 01, 2024, 03:48

With  90% of the counting  being  completed the ANC is down to 40,34% of the votes.   It is indeed remarkable how accurate the opinion polls in SA is.   It sxhows how well the elections is  managed legally.    In the USA polls are not accurate and abused by especially the Denocrats is always a problem.   

But back to the  Election consequences in the country  Insofar as Parlaimentary membership is concerned - the situation at presnt is that  the membersh ip of Parliament will be more or less as follows:-  

                                   New Elction                      Present siuation     Gains/Losses  

ANC                          -      161                           -       248                          - 89

 DA                                     86                            -         84                          +  2

MK                                     59                            -            0                          +  59

EFF                                     38                             -         44                          -   6

IFP                                       16                                       10                           +   6

Other small parties              40                                        42                           +   2

I believe the votes to be counted are in the main early votes casted by special vote applications from the elderly - the sickly - business people absent from their voting  districts - students at University.   That type of voters are not going to be  making little dfference to the outcme of h e election - but like the case is at the Unviersities it may slightly favor the DA which could possibly be getting another 1 or 2 members in Parlaiment at the expense of the other competing parties.   .


The EFF  said they woukd work together with the A NC  in a coalition Government if th ey are given the post of Minister of Finance - they apparently want to loot the Government like their leaders did to the Venda Bank - which they bankrupted after stealing billions from the poor investing  their small savings in the Bank.  

The MK Party is virtually a Zulu Party with Zuma being the nominal leader.    Zuma cannot be a member of Parliament or in any official post in Government in terms of the latest ruling of the Constitutional Court.   .    Within  Government  the MK would just continue with  looting of the Govrnment like they did under Zuma.   

So where is the ANC going  to go.   I spoke to my lawyer yestedrday - as he had close links with the ANC for many years.   He is worried as well - would prefer a coalition Government with the DA - but the DA will oppose any Government with Ramaphosa as President after discovery of the loot on his farm were millions of dollars were stolen hidden in his farmhouse.   

Weak leadership of and corruption within the ANC is going  to divde the ANC down the middle and will tore the Party apart.   They will be split down the middlle and is really in a mess.    The younger generation born after 1994 is not going  to support anything that will be to their detriment as is the case at present.   

So what will the ANC come up with?    My guess is that they will call in Mbeki to try and solve the problem for them by trying to get a reasonible Government and the question is what will his attitude be as to the solution.    Mbeki will have a difficult problem to solve,   I do not think he likes either any element of the MK -Zuma party involved in a coalition after Zuma stabbed him in the back in 2007 and subsequently.    

My own guess is that in the end the ANC will go into alliance with the DA - like happened in 1994 without Ramaphosa being involved as the ANC was embarrassing them  under his leadership.     What will  happen is another problem that will have to be solved within the next 14 days as Parliament must elect a President within that time period.   My point of view is that Mbeki may come back as interim President - but there are other less controversial people that could be considered as President.     

The Business sector would want a coalition  Government with the DA  and that include the Black businessmen like Motsepe - whose sister is married to Ramaphosa.    In any event the situation remains to be a mess, unforseen by the ANC before election day.   The problem si that the MK and EFF has a record of causing disturbances in ommunities and they situation can get out of hand totally with another looting spree like happened a few years ago in Durban and Johannesburg.     I spoke to some friends of mine in KwaZulu-Natal and they are really worried about what would happen in that province.    

I will try and follow what would happen over he next 14 days amd try and see what is likely to happen.   My own guess is that the election indicates the death of the ANC as a Party - kept going  artificially as a liberation party - but always weak as a Governing Party - even when Mandela was President and Mbeki as well.    .   .              ,    .      .   .              .           .            .          

Jun 01, 2024, 05:46

Interesting times...

Jun 01, 2024, 05:54


I cannot remember who believed  that "interesting times" is regarded as a curse,   but the following  explains it according to Wikipedia:-

"May you live in interesting times" is an English expression that is claimed to be a translation of a traditional Chinese curse. The expression is ironic: "interesting" times are usually times of trouble."  

Jun 01, 2024, 06:13

With Zuma in the mix, trouble is the most likely outcome. 

Jun 01, 2024, 10:37

When I opeed the IEC webite this morning there were 551 of the 23 292 voting districts to be completed.  It is now down to 291 districts  in a matter of three hours.   The job could in fact be completed by this evening bearing in mind the rpogress already made thsi moring.   

The ANC is now down to 40,28%  - but still at roundbaout  161 seats - but very near to falling to 160 seats.- with the DA close to getting 87 seats.      

Jun 01, 2024, 16:33

Unfortunately the ANC have shown their true colours over the past 30 odd years and destroyed the largest economy in Africa as well as perfecting the corruption that the Nats never ever perfected.

The point is not who will be the next government in RSA but has the corruption teached a level from which the country will never recover irrespective of who is in power.

Sadly, I predict that the spiral downwards will continue.

Jun 01, 2024, 17:48


The cvotecounting will be completed tomorrow - results for the following voting districts have been reduced today from 551 this mrning  to the following outstns=ding  districts  

North West Province  2

Gauteng                     48

Eastern Cape             14

All the other Provines has completed the counting.

So after t ose are completed the Commssion will calculate the number of deats each Partywould have in Parliament  and how many rovincial Parliament seats have ben allocated o all 9 provinces ndividually 

A fter th at the list of members will be gaszetted and within 14 days Parliament must convene to eelct the Presidednt ad vice President,    This is wh ere the sh it will hit the wall.       


Jun 02, 2024, 06:09

With only 25 polling district to be finalize - 20 in Gauteng and 5 in Easter Cape the chances are tha t the fial membership count in the USA would be as folows:  

                                 New members                             Loss or gain in suppot

ANC             -         161  Members                                            - 87

DA                -           87  Members                                            +   3

MK               -           59  Members                                             + 59                                          

EFF               -           38  Members                                             -   6

IFP                 -           15  Members                                             +  1

Others            -           40  Members                                             -  24

That in effect means that the ANC will have to consider a coalition with either the MK or the EFF as partners.    The involvement of Zuma in the process may just destroy any chance of a coalition government comprising the two parties,   The other complication is that MK votes were confined to Zulus - which is against a Zulu Government controlled system,   

The next option would be a coalition with the EFF and a few others from the minor parties - since an ANC EFF coalition would not be enough to have a coalition Government would get to be   not enough to get the needed 201 votes.     

The 40 members will be made up by -

Patroatic Aklliance       8 members

VF Plus                         5  members

Action SA                     5 members 

ACDP                            2 members

UDM                             2 members

Rise                               1 member\

Bosa                              1  member

ATM                              1  member

Aljama                           1 member\

The other 14 members  will determine the votes may add tthe percentage of 38500 votes required to get a member elected, and may add to the above parties getting an increased vote number or add further parties to the list above,

What seems inevitable is the fact that Ramaphosa will be ouste as President and that the busines sector being funding parties insist that an alliance between the ANC and Demcratic Alliance will be the only option that will assure a Government with reasnable option for the country to be governed ffecively and would rotect the present constitution.  .


Jun 02, 2024, 07:03

Thanks ouMaaik

Jun 02, 2024, 13:43

This from the Economist:

Voting-aged South Africans born after apartheid, in 1994, have some of the lowest registration numbers, while those who endured the worst of the apartheid regime are aging. Instead, a generation who experienced the euphoria and economic growth of post-apartheid South Africa, and then the decline and despondency that followed, have soured on the A.N.C.

“Maybe they had a plan to fight apartheid, but not a plan for the economy,” Ms. Mathivha said.

The couple live in the Gauteng Province, the most populous and wealthiest region, where urban Black voters have grown resentful of the A.N.C. government’s failure to provide even the most basic services. The Mathivhas, who work in banking and tech, live on a tree-lined street in what was once a white-only suburb in Johannesburg.


Maybe they had a plan to fight Apartheid but not a plan for the economy’ 

That started with Mandela. By the time he left office all the trends which have wrecked the economy were firmly in place, most notably the failure to provide electricity.

The culture was wrong from the start. There was the chance to create a powerhouse economy and an example for the rest Africa. Instead self gratification became the norm.

Jun 02, 2024, 14:36

Until the older voters are replaced by the younger folks as a majority in voting I forsee no change and the slide down into total collapse for the country will continue.

Dumb and driven by hate.

mozart your posting captures the mood of the older people who cannot forgive and are driven by revenge at all costs.


Jun 02, 2024, 18:36

There  were 5 voting districts in Gauteng which vote counting waas no finalized by 18:00 and there is one minor potential change hat could b still nt finalizedd.   That is what happened as to the number of NC Parlaiment members - it could be 158 at present to actually be 159.

The DA still has 87 seats     The rest of the Parliamentary and provincial Council seats have been annouced as well.   

The Mail and Guardian wih an excellent record of knowledge as to what is being planned as to what coalition party the ANC has chosen to consider as a coalition partner or at least a ssupporter of thed ANC iro crucial votes in Parliament in return of whuich DA members will chair the  oversight committess f Parliament as well as Chairman of Parliament.   The DA would not accpt cabinet seats since that would make them a partner of failures that in the end could destroy the ANC.   

Another issue that I mentiond before is that Ramaphosa is married to a siste of Motsepe and the latter has ben accused as a supporter of Trump.   Motsepe is the major funder of the ANC - while his business partner Johan Rupert funds the  DA.    It seems that links would save Ramaphosa as President.    I is beleied that the two funders would like a moderae government that would not destroy SA.    

The ANC does not like the  MK Party - especially  bcause o their links to Zuma.    The EFF has been losing support and hey lost seats in Parliament as well.   As is they do not have the votes to help the ANC reach the 200 mark when a president is to be eelced and they are disliked by the majoity of the ANC leadership.    

There is one aspect to be mentioned - th  ANC did not ch arge opposition leaders wh fak charges and te voting system was secured  and not open to voter fraud like voting by people without identification.    The USA can learn a lot from that.

.    .                  .     .    

Jun 03, 2024, 07:24

Last night it was announced that the ANC would have  158 huse members witha  possibilyty f getting one extra seat potentially beging given to the ANC after the remainig 5 voting districts having been finalized.   The rest of the results remain unchanged until the final 5 districts have finalized and thse have been already finalizd - but the IEC have not allocated the seat distribution.  The five areas have apapretly all gone to the Demcoratic Alliance and that could lead to the ANC remaining  at 158 seas with one minority parties getting an extra seat.    In this regard te very complicated manner of identifying  seat allocation is really difficult to calculate so I would not even try to state which  Party would benefit from the resuts of those 5 voting districts results.  

The IEC will announce the Parliament seat allocation today,  The next step in the process is to submit candidate list of heir nominations to serve as members of Parliament according to the seat allocation plus 2 additionanl names - since the President and  Deputy President must in the first instance be nminated - but after election  of the tw posts they will be replaced by Party nominees,  

After the IEC put the actual seat allocation on site I will provide the actual seat allocation and also clarity on which prominent politicians will in fact serve in Parlaiment.    

Th e various parties started with their management committees considering options of heir own involvemnt  in any coalition or co-operation agreement with the ANC.   The DA h as already appointed a negotiation team yesterday.

Parliamnt will be sworne in on  Thursday 15 June 2024  nd after inauguration will then debate and nominate andidaes to serve as Presient and Vice President so Parties have limited time tof inalize the necessary agreements,   It seems that agreements will be finalized and signed  by that date.   ,       


Jun 03, 2024, 10:09

The culture was wrong from the start. There was the chance to create a powerhouse economy and an example for the rest Africa. Instead self gratification became the norm.

I agree with almost all of what you're saying. What we tend to forget though is that none of the ANC had any schooling in politics, none served on town councils, provincial government or in a public service role. They were freedom fighters both local and afar and they were trying to win their freedom under extremely difficult conditions. They were also damned in having to fulfill the wishes of a people who weren't prepared to wait  a day longer than 45 years of Apartheid. Ill and unprepared their people were shoved into positions in which they were always going to fail.

I'm not attempting to make excuses for 30 years of ANC failure but I believe they would have had a better chance had they been schooled in a political system. And maybe I'm wrong in that even if they had a political schooling the end result would have been exactly the same but then you can't be right either because the ANC didn't have that opportunity.

Everything though is so much simpler in hindsight. 

Jun 03, 2024, 10:44

"What we tend to forget though is that none of the ANC had any schooling in politics, none served on town councils, provincial government or in a public service role"

You really don't need political schooling to know that stealing your country and it's people blind, whilst also destroying the entire infrastructure of the country as well..... is perhaps slightly wrong....

"They were also damned in having to fulfill the wishes of a people who weren't prepared to wait"

As I have said before on here, people that were screaming, rioting and looting because of waiting for houses for 25 years, then starting renting those very same houses out, when they did finally get them... for R8 000 to R12 000 a month whilst they themselves stayed in their original shack that they had.... the exact same shack that they were bitching about trying to get out of... for the previous 25 years.

You also don't need any level of political schooling at all to know that putting someone in charge of an SOE organization without the necessary training, experience or education, is not rocket science.....like SABC, SAA, Eskom, Denel, Transnet, Postal Service .....etc etc

Did they learn and adapt after each one folded and collapsed... no..... did they change tactics and implement different strategies........ no..... did they keep plodding along and getting the same results.....damn straight they did.

You also really don't need political schooling to know that you need educated people to run municipalities, which is why even up and till today.... 30 years on..... only 41 of 257 municipalities ...which equates to only 16% ..... are financially stable and receive clean audits.

What level of political schooling would have helped in any of these instances........absolutely nothing.

Had they kept some of the well educated and knowledgeable people in place, to actually learn from, and gain skills from, and then take it over slowly over the past 30 years, you would be seeing a completely differently country.

Jun 03, 2024, 10:48

ag fooitog....

Jun 03, 2024, 12:15

Point out where I am wrong ...... because all I see from you is this

"I'm not attempting to make excuses for 30 years of ANC failure but"

In other words.... the usual rhetoric that the ANC has fed to the millions over the many years

Jun 03, 2024, 12:25

If you're not schooled in something, you learn from the people who are. Instead the ANC kicked all the schooled people out to install their useless cadres. None of these excuses hold any water. Especially the "not schooled in politics" one. They wiped the floor with "schooled politicians" like Roelf Meyer and FW de Klerk.

Jun 03, 2024, 13:05

Exactly my point Pakie...... as I said, it really isn't rocket science.... and we all saw precisely what happened to the majority of the "Schooled People"

Jun 03, 2024, 13:27

So the ANC have to form a coalition government, is it between IFF or Zuma's monkeys?
Unlikely to join the leading opposition party, the DA

Jun 03, 2024, 13:35


The other issue hat Denny lost sight of is that there were tens of thusands of black public srvants in employ u nder the National Government.as well.   These people received adequate trining o gradullally move h igher in the public service.    

Dr Albertina Luthuli arranged for she and myself a dinner with Zuma and Dr Zuma  and during th meal I warned the Zuma's about undermining the public service and said it would obviously be necessary to get rid of some weasels in the Public Servie - but wholesale discharge of people and replacing hem with untrained and poorly educted people would be a mistake,     Zumna kept relatively silent during the discussions and I gained the impression that  he agrees with me on the issue.   Dr Zuma was not - she said that the ANC will apppoint their own people and everuything  will come right.

A year later I met Dr Luthuli in Spar and she burst out laughing wh en she saw me.   She told me that DR Zuma apppointed the Director General of Health and she fired her within 6 months not fr her being  incompetent - but she differed from the political idiocy of Dr Zuma.    

In 2007 when  Zuma became leader of the ANC - one of the first acts taken by the ANC was to fire 300 senior personnel and techinicians because they wanted to replace  them witjh ANC cadres.  They also increased the number of low level jobs in Eskom from 23 000 to 46 000 and within.    

Eskom ws admired worldwide for their efficient service  and cheap electriccity rates.    With in a year Eskom collapsed and they have never recovered since then.   Corruption scandal after corruption scandal turned Eskom into a nightmare,   

The same happened to other state enterprises - there is zero of those operating efficiently.   O(n of those were the railway service.    I lived next to the rail line running through Riversdale.   D ays go by without any trin passing  the house.    The station  buildings in Riversdale became ruins.    Corruption ruined that service too.   

The main problems were exposed by the Zondo Commission and instead of starting to act agaonst cadres the situation went on regardless.

There is a massive difference between living in the Western Cape  - comtrolled by the DA and living in provinces.    Of the 41 Municipalities who got clean audfits from the  Auditior  General 28 is in the Western Cape and 13 in the rest of SA where the ANC controlled everything .   The 13 municipalities actually was in towns where the DA had the Council majority.    The KwaDukuza Municipality was one of the worst Municipalities in SA until the Dolphiin Coast Municipality.    Thabo Mbeki  after a visit in 2000 was so impressed with what the DC Municipality achieved that he sent delegations from other Mu8niciplaities to Balltio for helping the Municipalities in what Mbeki regarded as the best run Municipality in SA.

That task was my responsiblility and I had to give talks from all levels of peoeple.   I even ahd to address conferences in England and G ermany on the issues we were dealing with.    Despite of what I warned them against, the Municipalities sending peopele to Ballito collapsed one after another. and the main problem was corruption.  

I am sad to say that the main problem is not only lack of experience but love of looting and corruption that is destroying SA.



Jun 03, 2024, 13:52

What a pity that this discussion just got taken over by some actual facts......lol

Jun 03, 2024, 14:44


The IFP does not have enough votes to form a coalition Government with the  ANC - neuither dies the EFF.    The ANC would not negotiate with Zuma's Party since that party is absed etirely on tribalism and the Zulus are hated by the other tribes,     Ramaphosa will not be able to convince his caucus to become prisoners of Zuma.  

The idea is developing that the DA will sign a co-operation agreement with the ANC that allows for no D P member to be in the Cabinet - but will chair the oversight Parliamentary committeee , as well as the Chairman of Parliament .    By that emans they would be able to control the Cabinet Minsiters and Departmental Heads from going wild,    

The DA has already appointed a task team to negotiate a deal with the ANC where they support important issues like the the Budget and Minsiterial regulations - but they do not want to be seen as a partner in corruption.   There are powerful intereted partiess on both sides that will determine what will happenm.   Ramaphosa is married to a sister of Motsepe the main funder of the ANC and  the main funder of he DA is Johan Rupert - not only that Motsepe and Ruport are business partners - for instance  jointly own the B ulls rugby franvchise and there are other joint interests they have in their business operations.   They can force he two parties into working together.    .             

Jun 03, 2024, 14:59

Yeah, murmurs of some DA and ANC coalition..... who woulda thought....

I have never been a fan of coalitions, but I guess better the devil you know

Interesting days ahead....

Jun 03, 2024, 16:19

Derek Keys who was the Minister  of Finance under de Klerk and lasted 3 months under Mandela was the kind of man they needed. Very smart, articulate, human and honest. He had the experience of global finances that would have made a difference.

I agree that the transition from Freedom Fighter to Administrator was bound to be rocky. So Mandela needed somebody like Keys. He needed to insist on competence in the key positions.

But he too, struggled with the transition. He got some things right, but in other cases he enabled what is going on today. It’s more tempting to blame his successors, but he was the only man with the gravitas to do the right thing.

Jun 03, 2024, 16:59

The ANC is only incompetent when it allows them to loot and pillage...SARS is one of the most efficient tax collectors in the world...why is that?

Jun 04, 2024, 02:50

I take your word on what you say of Derek Keys but in truth I didn't know of him and sure he would have done a great job but I believe that the ANC needed a lot more than him to navigate a path to a better future for the country. As I've said the ANC were ill prepared and ill equipped from day one of winning the first  national elections. They needed a fresh new gameplan, new pragmatic strategies and a team with a workable economic culture. Mandela, a great leader was not that man, his job in galvanizing the oppressed to rid themselves of Apartheid had ended as it did for several of his comrades on Robbin Island and afar. 

Thabo Mbeki had some serious issues but he was a technocrat and was the best man under the circumstances to advance the nation. South African business people like the Oppenheimer's liked him and he could only have been a good thing because the Marxist Malema and Zuma conspired to get rid of him. They succeeded and under Zuma's reign from there onwards the country went into rapid decline. Let's remember that the country's economy was in the firm grip of the white man and I believe they'd have been better served working on things like better pay and conditions for black workers. That would have been a start to stymie black anxiety and then there's other things they could have implemented like much needed health care and education.

Not sure if I'm going to continue this debate but I want to assure you I appreciated talking to a white person who didn't come across as a typical arrogant and ignorant white South African who after all the years still speak and think exactly as they always have.

Jun 04, 2024, 03:20

South Africa is complex and there is plenty of blame to go around…so any arrogance is probably misplaced.  Talking about it here is not the logical forum, but we are a good microcosm of the views that have shaped the country. So perhaps it’s not totally unproductive to talk here.

Jun 04, 2024, 04:41

In my dreamworld a coalition between the ANC & DP which somehow curbs/lessens corruption, resolves the diabolical Eskom crisis & the myriad of problems haunting the nation.

Any coalition involving the EFF or Zuma's Zulus......................... catastrophic. Can you imagine Malema as a cabinet minister ? Foreign Affairs ?

Jun 04, 2024, 06:40

Agreed blob, that would be devastating to SA

Jun 04, 2024, 06:46

"I believe they'd have been better served working on things like better pay and conditions for black workers. That would have been a start to stymie black anxiety and then there's other things they could have implemented like much needed health care and education"

Finally, something we completely agree on.

It was disgusting and despicable for me to see how some white people treated black people back then, and still do even today...

A lot more could and should have been done for the black population, and there is absolutely no doubt about that, because to deny it would be delusional.

I just don't join the chorus of many today who say that the ANC  or any other black government could not have done more in 30 years because of X - Y - Z, because that is also delusional.

Jun 04, 2024, 07:15

There won't be a coalition of the ANC and the DA. It will be the final nail in the coffin of the ANC if it does happen.

Jun 04, 2024, 07:17

I just don't join the chorus of many today who say that the ANC  or any other black government could not have done more in 30 years because.....


Jun 04, 2024, 07:22

So perhaps it’s not totally unproductive to talk here.

I agree but it depends on who one chooses to talk to, I won't waste my time talking to a rednek who's filled with hate and prejudice.........what would be the point? 

Jun 04, 2024, 10:48


The final nail in the ANC fall is going  to happen irrespective of which they agree to to form a Government.   They in fact have three chocies - those being an alliance with the ultra-corruptt EFF and some smaller parties with a similar dubious record - or the Zuma Party even more corrupt than the EFF.   

I think the ANC lostng the seats in Parliament bcause of endemic corruption and any aqlliance with the Zuma Party and the EFF would not improve the ANC corruption image,   What is also alarming is something the enwspapers try and explain away.   In anj opinion poll conduced involving Blacks 42% of them said they were worse oiff financxially under the ANC than they were under the National Party.   That was done about two years ago and in a way is not reflective of what is in the media say at present - namely that the older voters voted for the ANC - but I think a large percentage did not vote at all  and that cost the ANC dearly.

It is normal for people to stay out of voting when they are dissillutioned by the Governing Party and if things do not improve they are going to vote for the opposition.

In  any evet the SA opinion polls are remarkably accurate.    A year ago the polls indicated support or the ANC drpped to 42% according to those polls at th time.   In follow-up polls the support dropped to .39% and in later once to be  40% .   So in all respect the 42% poll amongs Black vters was also accurate.      

Jun 04, 2024, 15:42

To close discussion o the election results here are the final results based on the election aoutcome allocated to the vartios parties involved:-

                                    2024 Election                      Present siuation     Gains/Losses  

ANC                          -        159                                -       248                          - 89

 DA                                       87                                -         84                          +  2

MK                                       58                                -            0                        +  58

EFF                                     34                                 -         44                         -   10

IFP                                       17                                           10                           +  7

Patriotic Alliance                    9                                             0                            +  9

VF Plus                                  6                                            10                           -   4  

Action SA                               6                                              0                           +   6

ACDP                                     3                                              4                            -   1

UDM                                       3                                              2                            +  1    

ATM                                        2                                             2                                -

Al Jama                                  2                                              1                             +  1

BOSA                                     2                                               0                            +  2

Rise                                        2                                               0                            +   2

CCC                                       2                                               0                             +   2

Good                                      2                                               1                              +   1 

CCC                                       2                                                0                             +   2

UAT                                        1                                                0                              *  1 

PAC                                       1                                                 0                              +  1                  

The PAC and Good  were usedas parties to siphon of votes from the Coloured communities away from the DA and was in a way quite sucessful   by having 11 votes in Parliament. as agains their present 1 vote.    However, the PA tried to get an alliance with th e DA in en effort t get votes from the ati ANC Coloured community.   What they would do in  Parliament is not at all certain.  



Jun 06, 2024, 08:38

So now it seems that the ANC want to form a government of national unity, by collaborating with the DA, EFF, IFP and PA.....

Wow ....

Jun 06, 2024, 09:02

Oh Dear......typical reaction from a bunch of clowns:'(

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