What happened at Mar-a-Lago disturbed many Americans. It was heavy handed and unnecessary. In the end that one thing ensured he wasn’t going to stay on.
What happened at Mar-a-Lago disturbed many Americans. It was heavy handed and unnecessary. In the end that one thing ensured he wasn’t going to stay on.
What happened at Mar-a-Lago disturbed many Americans. It was heavy handed and unnecessary. In the end that one thing ensured he wasn’t going to stay on.
Well it disturbed most Trump supporters and Republicans but a survey conducted at the time found the majority of American's supported the raid on Mar-a-Lago.
Yeah, apparently it was 52%
Interestingly, 86% of democrats supported the raid, whilst only 15% of republicans did
It sent a clear message though, which I believe reverberated straight through to Trump's election win
Yeah, apparently it was 52%
Interestingly, 86% of democrats supported the raid, whilst only 15% of republicans did
Well 51% supported the raid as compared to 27% who disapproved of the raid, while another 22% neither supported nor opposed the raid.
Independents where at 47% support for the raid and 24% opposed to the raid.
It sent a clear message though, which I believe reverberated straight through to Trump's election win
Its very hard to know but personally I don't think it had much if any effect on the election.
I will caveat that by saying, I've just seen the one survey and I wouldn't call one survey conclusive, its just all I've seen.
Its a partisan issue, if your Republican or right leaning you tend to be against the raid, and a democrat or left leaning you tend to be supportive of it.
The majority of the public were fed 2 fake phoos that the FBI fed to th medi as poof of Trumps guil and which they claimed was th e reason for the raid. When the C ourt found the FBI lied to the press and aferwards found that Smith and the FBI was undermining the court case -- the people found out of he despicable conduct of the FBI. In the end the Judge threw out the case because of the despicable cnduct of the FBI after she threatened she would charge both Smith and Wray with undeining he court and send them to jail.
You should check facts first before coming up with fake deductions. prmote by the emdia. You can fool a lot of people in the short term - but not all the people all the time.
Wray is in de shit for lying under oath repeatedly in Senate and House hearings. Although cases were submitted to Garland for prosecution the latter proected him. So the question is who as h biggest liar of the two in House and Senate hearings and the new AG is bound to take both to court - the inimum entence for lying unde oath to Congress is 6 years in jail - that is why the recent photos of the two indicate two exteremely worried individuals, Another criminal who lied to congress was Mayorkas - who when the same question was asked to him on four days over 14 day eriod gave four different asnwers and it turned out all four aswers were lies,
Wray and Mayorkas was summoned by Senaters and House members to asnwer questios on the illegal migrant murderers in the USA but decided not to tturn up for the meetings and that alone is also criminal conduct. The Democrats are terrified about what is happening and they now wants Biden to pardon them for 'non-disclosed crimes coveing the period 1 January 2014 until 1 Dcember 2024 - which he had no right to pardons.. In the past pardons wer only granted to persons who were found guilt and sent to jail and where the President found it necesary to pardon pople in th past. Biden is trying to potect hiself and a large number of people who committed crime which will still be ivestifgated now after not being inveigated and acting on and will leave scores of criminals people in jail for many years to come. Biden himself will not be charged because he does not know what he is doing and has ni known for years - so the courts will nt find him guilty ince he does not know what he is doing. It s normal to feel pity for him - but it is cruel to send a dementia sufferer to jail.
Theere are oher problms as well - who orderd the FBI to spy illegally on 278 000 people as found by the FIS Court. and why did he FBI illegally take part in sencorship another illegality t he FBI was involved in.
So both Garland and Wray are in shit neck high and have mountains of legal problems coming up.
.
Actually I have spoken to several thinking Democrats who were disturbed by the way it was handled….the small majority who approved and who disappeared by election time, were led to believe it was all necessary.
I’m also not sure why the head of the FBI now has to be a career lawyer, rather than somebody from the FBI ranks, possibly with legal training, but who has excelled in intelligence work. I’d imagine finding that person would be a boost to the institution.
Actually I have spoken to several thinking Democrats
LOL so Democrats who agree with you are thinking Democrats.
.the small majority who approved and who disappeared by election time, were led to believe it was all necessary.
Small majority?. The survey showed nearly twice as many people approved as disapproved. Only just over a quarter of people where opposed to the raids and the percentage of people surveyed that said they strongly opposed the raid was 18.7%
And its not like the people who supported the raid disappeared, its likely most of them did still vote democrat, its just a certain amount of them didn't think it was that important an issue.
Educate yourself:
A new report by researchers at Northwestern, Harvard, Rutgers, and Northeastern universities, shows that a slight majority of Americans (51%) approve of the search of Mar-a-Lago, but there is a partisan gap between those who support and oppose it.
From August 11 to September 13, 2022, the researchers conducted a national survey of 26,616 Americans, and most of those surveyed, or 81%, were aware that the raid had taken place. A large majority of Democrats (84%) supported or strongly supported the search, compared to 13% of Republicans. Among Republicans, 64% opposed or strongly opposed the search, versus 3% of Democrats.
Independents were nearly twice as likely to support the search as they were to oppose it. Close to a third, or 32%, of independents strongly supported the search, while almost another third (28%) neither supported nor opposed it.
Yeah, how many Americans surveyed thought that Trump had colluded with Russia?
And how many think so now?
How many Americans thought Covid came from animals, and how many think so now?
I could go on, but it's obvious people's opinions are dictated by whatever the corrupt media tells them.
...and as we know the media machine was against Trump since the start.
Now, if Star were being honest he'd contrast the media reporting of Trump to what the facts ended up being...in so many cases. He contrast so much of the utter crap the left media has spewed out over the last 8 years to what the facts ended up being.
...and if he were truly honest he'd be able to admit that that the media bias against Trump has been unprecedented. I've never seen anything like it, and I doubt anybody else here has.
But America saw through it eventually and the only poll that matters is that they unanimously voted for Trump and blew the Dems into the stratosphere.
In the end, the leftist death rattle sounds like "It was racism and sexism that made people vote for Trump."
The next four years are gonna be dang fantastic!!!
To quote Joe Rogan "America is back, baby!"
Stav
For Heavens sake - the problem as to eh raid is just a minor part of he prblems that destroyed Wray. What is mor important is what happened a a result of he raid, Smith ws apponted to get Tump ut of the election. Garland and Wray was invilved in all the "charg laid against Trump. So he lay charges in a Florida Court. The fir thig was the F BI took fake photos and gave it to the emdia, The Photos was mot talem in Trumps House. but by the FBI in one of their offices, That did not make their case any stronger, A s required Tumps lawyers approach the Courts and were told to retiurm sl the documents within 14 days - so the Judge gave Wray and Smith ca lezr warning Return the documents within 14 days or you will be charged ondeminin g the ciurt, f unrmining of Court, So they took 32 boxes of documents and they returned 21 Boxes. The Judge got mad at the set-up and threw the case out of Court, Snith then applied to e Court to apeal a gainst he ruling of the Jadge, Before the Court could rule on the A ppeal tSmith withdew the apeal application and now the apoaws charge vanishe from site. So no CRIME was committed by Trump - while Smith and the FBI broke all law processes totally. - there ended t he document saga,
Look at the other isues as well and those in magnitude were the essense of law=brking by the FBI.so sorry tav you are abrking u n-existent tree,
1 Spying ilegally against 278 000 people
2 Sffort to sencor news that would embarrass the den Regime
3 Spying on Roman Catholice yndermining the US Constitution and on Spuimng n Parents who atnd school board metings
4 The sabotaging of investigations of the Biden corruptiin. by the F BI - eg the lie that he Hunter Biden Laptop was Russian Dsinformation and tthe Bank reports to the FBI pointing out money laundering by the family.
5 Th Mr-el-Lago raod - but mor eimpotanly the lie sprading about Fake Photos they spread on he raid and scandalus conduct of the F BI in succeeding Court provcessed leading to collaps of the charged laid against Trump/
When the FBI undermines the US Constitution and laws fightig crime on false basis is unacceptable and needs re-orgaanization to restore law and order conduct within the organization.. As more F DI problems evolve the people more and more demand action gaainst rogue orgnizations like the FBI became.
"What happened at Mar-a-Lago disturbed many Americans. It was heavy handed and unnecessary. In the end that one thing ensured he wasn’t going to stay on.
Well it disturbed most Trump supporters and Republicans but a survey conducted at the time found the majority of American's supported the raid on Mar-a-Lago."
Stav, you are far gone if it doesn't disturb you...there are ways of doing things and this was a totally unnecessary, and over the top political statement by the lefties...the mere fact that you're not appalled by it is telling.
Educate yourself:
51% approved after the Mainstream media spent hours explaining to the never decided what they should think. And Trump winning the election despite massive underspending proves people soured on the negativity that drove incidents like Mar-a-Lago. This from The NY Times.
The Democrats, their allied super PACs and other groups raised about $2.9 billion, versus about $1.8 billion for the Republicans. As he did in 2016, Mr. Trump proved that money was not everything, and that a thriftier campaign could beat a bigger spender.
S tav
he deparin g Prsident has he power t declassify documents and he did iro all documents he took. S o he took no classified documents and you were lied to baout it.
What is mr bohersome - what was in the documents in the 21 boxes that was removed from the boxes the FBI returned to the FBI - but hat happened to the 11 boxes f documents the FBI did not eturn to th C ourt despit a court order that htye h ad to.
It is likely that the FBI refied to return may be an effrt to hide BI corruption and dealing with the Biden corruption issue, Was te info so bad they broke the law and undemine the court byrfusing t prvide the documents a instructed to do so. Take fpr isntacne the fake phtotos the fbi sprad in the media to support the so-clled classified document lie.
Obama took as much documents wih him when he left the WH and he justified it by claiming it was to be part of the Obama Library. Th library was neve built and is unlikely to bt built in future,. So Obama took docmnt - no problem by the media - Trump took document ih him and it suddnly becme a crime with ie from te FBI adding to the Lord Hw Haw propaganda.
Better still Biden took docments he as VP could not be declaiied. He hen provide classified docs to his biographer for use in his book, Rhe Special Council appointed by Garland found that he commtted breaches of the law - but also fond that Biden ad no idea abourhat is going on n the orld. So he oe not recomment egal charge becuse of advanced dementia. - since the court will not take te ce since the accused should be in an asylum for advanced dementia sufferers. That rpor cme ou in May 2024 and Garland tried to hide it from the public.
In the case of Biden there were nor security guards in the time when he wa not VP anymore -but restored when Biden was at home in Delaware and ihs holiday home. Seciruty Guarsds were provided only when Biden went there for rest 3 days a week - the sane applies to his holiday home - but there were no guards at hthe Biden rmembrace branch of Penn Univesity Washigton funded by the Chinese Government where documents were kept in unlocked cabinets, In the case of Trump there were security guards from the US Secret servoce 24 hours per day, Trump has his own seciruty detail funded by him at Mar-el-Lago club. There as another securiy isse as well - the room where the documents were kept had s security doo with two locks, ,The key to one lock was kept by the Securit Service pesonnel and the key of the other by Trump's secretay - so the chances of documents takem fro,m te oom without of both keyholders being present. The propaganda about he docments were total BS and you fell for it. , , . . .
When a clearly batshit ex-POTUS takes confidential documents to his home it makes perfect sense for the authorities to intervene.
51% approved after the Mainstream media spent hours explaining to the never decided what they should think.
Ah yes, people who disagree with me are indoctrinated. People who share my views are intelligent free thinkers?
Ironic thing is once Trump supporters perceive their guy or their team to be under attack we get this mindless pre-programmed response Oh its all the mainstream media's fault, or it's the deep state or it's the woke lefties in Hollywood or some other such bilge water.
And Trump winning the election despite massive underspending proves people soured on the negativity that drove incidents like Mar-a-Lago.
Economic perceptions
Ironic thing is once Trump supporters perceive their guy or their team to be under attack we get this mindless pre-programmed response Oh its all the mainstream media's fault, or it's the deep state or it's the woke lefties in Hollywood or some other such bilge water.
Yep, it's their stock standard reply........I'll be in shock when it isn't.
Psstt...Draad.. over here...let me just whisper this in your ear. You know those classified documents that he held on to when he wasn't allowed too and was repeatedly asked to return, well...HE COULD OF JUST RETURNED THE F**KING DOCUMENTS!
LMAO
So the Media wasn’t all in against Trump and Russian collusion wasn’t leapt on by the Media and was corrected after no conclusive evidence was found. It was all a level playing field. Got it.
"Psstt...Draad.. over here...let me just whisper this in your ear. You know those classified documents that he held on to when he wasn't allowed too and was repeatedly asked to return, well...HE COULD OF JUST RETURNED THE F**KING DOCUMENTS!"
I have no problem with them taking the so called classified documents back...I've got an issue with they way it was done...they raided his home with guns, authorized to use sharp munitions. They even went through his wife's closet...then they leaked fraudulent photos of classified documents to the media...this wasn't some random crook. This was an ex president of the USA...far gone indeed...wood...trees...BS
"The vitriol on this string is so 2016.. "
I mentioned it here before, the brainwashing campaign was one of the most successful I have ever seen. There was nothing organic about it. It was massive, coordinated and extremely successful.
EG There are still, to this day, people on this thread who believe Trump told people to drink bleach. And they'll stand by that assessment...contrary to all logic and even basic adult thinking.
So that badly aged vitriol will continue to spew forth from the weak-minded until the end of time.
Their peanuts were irreversibly damaged by it all.
"And Trump winning the election despite massive underspending proves people soured on the negativity that drove incidents like Mar-a-Lago. This from The NY Times"
This is my belief as well
"The voters by contrast see both sides and have decided on balance Trump is best for them. And there is no denying the achievement in turning around his political fate."
Yep, and even if they didn't exactly have the best option against Trump, the very fact that the majority voted for him says so much about what the general American public had to consider before voting, and the constant, excessive targeting of Trump, in any way possible, definitely added to this.
Here's a prime example.
Of course the media is biased...but what kind of retard watches the below and goes..."Yeah, that makes sense."
So the Media wasn’t all in against Trump and Russian collusion wasn’t leapt on by the Media and was corrected after no conclusive evidence was found. It was all a level playing field. Got it.
Time to move on?
Oh wow that's hilarious....says who? if they can find a hole big enough to bury his mountain of disgusting lies......J6 and his instigation thereof.....his notorious dummy spit when hounding officials to reverse an election he'd clearly lost but then also turning 60 courts upside down to reverse his loss. Sitting in the WH watching J6 unfold and being begged by his family to call off the deplorables.
Time to move on huh....is that just because he's won!?
I have no problem with them taking the so called classified documents back
So called?...there is nothing so called about the classified documents, they were 100% classified documents that Trump should not have kept.
...I've got an issue with they way it was done...they raided his home with guns, authorized to use sharp munitions.
The conducted the raid following absolutely bog standard protocol, a raid that could of been completely avoided had he returned all the documents. And its not like they didn't give him time, they had been trying to get the documents back for 18 months. But not only did he not return the documents, he obstructed attempts to get the documents returned.
They even went through his wife's closet
Which they where legally entitled to do. Imagine a raid on a drug dealers house and moaning about the police going through the drug dealers wife closet.
...then they leaked fraudulent photos of classified documents to the media
They did what now. There was no leak, they publicly published photo's of the classified documents, nothing fraudulent about them. If your referring to the fact that the documents where staged for the photo's that where published, again standard process. When evidence is found, photo's are taken of where the evidence is found, if there is more then one piece of evidence, then its spread out and photo's are taken so all of the individual evidence grouped together for tracking purposes. These were the photo's released to the public.
...this wasn't some random crook. This was an ex president of the USA
Indeed, never been a President like him.
...far gone indeed...wood...trees...BS
You have just unquestionable parroted false right wing talking points, all of which can be debunked very quickly by a few minutes fact checking. But of course you want to believe it so why would you fact check it. Yet apparently its the other side that's too far gone.
I mentioned it here before, the brainwashing campaign was one of the most successful I have ever seen. There was nothing organic about it. It was massive, coordinated and extremely successful.
Well we can go round in circles each side accusing the other of been brainwashed. The left by the mainstream media, the right by the alt media online.
EG There are still, to this day, people on this thread who believe Trump told people to drink bleach. And they'll stand by that assessment...contrary to all logic and even basic adult thinking.
Lets take this as an example. So its correct to say Trump did not tell people to drink bleach, but he did ask if it were possible to treat a COVID patient by injecting disinfectant. To be clear he didn't suggest anyone inject bleach either but he did ask if injecting disinfectant was a possible treatment.
How no matter how you swing it, what Trump said was monumentally stupid for reason's that should be obvious to a young child never mind the President of the United States and by extension immensely embarrassing for Trump supporters. If the shoe was on the other foot and it was a democratic President who asked that question, the right wingers would have just if not more mocking of a democratic President for what he said and Plum don't even try to deny for a second that you wouldn't be ripping the ever living p*ss out of them had they done it.
Trump supporters needed a way of distracting people, so they could stop feeling humiliated. So they try to keep the focus at all times on people incorrectly attributing Trump with saying he suggested drinking or inject bleach. They keep rabbiting on non stop about, like it was the bigger issue.
Now they do have something of a point. Biden for example made the claimed that Trump suggested people drink bleach and its perfectly fine to call out Biden for exaggeration. Accuracy and honesty is important. The question Trump asked made him look immensely stupid, it was both laughable and dangerous but it didn't need to be exaggerated.
Lets take this as an example. So its correct to say Trump did not tell people to drink bleach, but he did ask if it were possible to treat a COVID patient by injecting disinfectant.
Correct
No-one on here has said Trump said to drink bleach, that is just a pathological lie from Buttplug. The video if it's still available shows Trump as you say talking about injecting bleach.
Just typical TrumpZombie bullshit.
Stav
So called?...there is nothing so called about the classified documents, they where 100% classified documents that Trump should not have kept.
A lie as poven before. There were no documets t he archves wanted to have Thy inspected that documents and suggestd trump returned 16 boxes of documents they wanted and Trump sent the boxes back to them. THe FBI knew about it and kne tha Trump has declassify all documents and here were co classified doccuents involved.
The conducted the raid following absolutely bog standard protocol, a raid that could of been completely avoided had he returned all the documents. And its not like they didn't give him time, they had been trying to get the documents back for 18 months. But not only did he not return the documents, he obstructed attempts to get the documents returned.
Another lie Standrad protco was not followed at all. S tandrad proocol was followed in the case of Biden search. He was nofied in advance of the FBI search and his lawyer was present at teh search - the rooms of Biden house wa ageed upon.
The FBI had t bring in saff from Richmond to do the Mar-el-Lago search because their Florida staff wold not artici[te in an illegal search. They also the date when they knew none of the Trump family being at home. So when his attorney was informed of te raid she rushed to Mar-el-Lago where the F NBI would not llow her to monitor the raid as is standard protection in such cases, Then they took 32 boxes of documents with them. When chrges was laid the Judge ruled that the documnts shoud be retured to he court for inspection by Trump's lawyers = also stadard procedure ad then the undermining of the co urt started when they returned 21 boxes of documents and i was found that the BI produced nd circukated in the media fake photos about what they found at Mar-el-Lago. End resutl he Court case unravelled and was hrown out by the Judge. Whn Smith applied to the Court he promised tht all doc=uments would be returned - but he wihdrew his appeal.
There was NOT a single standar procedure rule that was followed by t he FBI and that ended up in the case against Trump falling flat.
Which they where legally entitled to do. Imagine a raid on a drug dealers house and moaning about the police going through the drug dealers wife closet.
Concoted BS comaring a drug raid to a raid of the home of an ex-President of he USA. Hell that is real stupidity to come up with BS like that, Are your brain malfnctionig coming up with shit like that.
You have just unquestionable parroted false right wing talking points, all of which can be debunked very quickly by a few minutes fact checking. But of course you want to believe it so why would you fact check it. Yet apparently its the other side that's too far gone.
What fact checking are you taslking about. If there were facts whatsoever it would have let to a sccessful cort case against Trump. That did not ahppen and he caaiign ag ainst Trump collapsed. Tel us plese what facts you checed and where - it would be hilarious,
By the way I am still delighed that Garland and Wray is wel on their way going to jail for various crimes - mainly because they lied nder oath in Senate nd House hearings,
Aide rom that yur sources are going down raidly and CNN and MSNBC is mving into the bankruptsy way and the Washington Post and Los Angeles Times decided that they do not want to keep on destroying their good name by repetitive lying and moved back to be newspapers and not propaganda liars. So your fact-checking souces are going doiwn fast.
Anyone for a drop of bleach?
Shaken or stirred?
Delivery available from Jan 2025
Be better than reading any of Mike's posts.
Don't know I've never read his posts
Believe me I once tried, nothing is more anal.
Blaas my siel - shitspreading and lies are alive and well on this site. Reaing it mkes one wondr whether Stav and Denny have fnctioning brains.
By the way - do some real research - Biden promised to sell 8 nucler driven submarines to Australia. Since that promise was made more than 3 years ago has any such submarines ever been delivered,? Do some fact check on what happened to the nuclear sub building program under Biden? Maybe you wold find out something real for a change.
So Anger you damn the American electorate for choosing Trump….no doubt mostly deplorables. But Ireland as a tax haven doesn’t bother you?
Ah the whataboutisms.
Or perhaps people in glass houses?
it is easy for Stav - he believe that facs do not count and crinminal conduct and lies are 100% believable. So he keeps n believing the Russian Hoax was not a hoax based on lies and wss really true/ it is really unbelievable that people can be that far gone in the world. I always believe people believing in idralogues are always sticking to their beliefs bec ause they cnnt think for themselves.
I know nothing about Wray, other than he appears to have some peer respect and is a capable person. Kash Patel is a joke. He is not a serious enough person for such a demanding role.
Congrats to Mike, Plum, Draad, DA etc in trying to enlighten half bakes like STAVASS and dense Denise, poor blobbie etc.
The poor clowns are in for a torrid 2025 as the Trump Admin starts to declassify material and go after demonrat criminals.
Much is already known thanks to the now dominant alternate media. But there are going to be huge bombshells coming out that will shake the world.
I saw on X a claim that there are Diddy sex tapes showing Hussein Obummer with minors. So let's see what comes out.
Prominent people are sweating bullets now. The tide of public opinion has turned. But the public ain't seen nothing yet. The full extent of the treason committed against the American people by the Uniparty Globalists is going to be revealed like never before.
The America People increasingly are aware their country has not being governed in their interest. They are far more ready to examine the evidence. The Previously MSM is circling the toilet.
Clowns like sharktwit, Rooitwit, Dense Denise, poor Blobbrain and the hapless nutter StavAss are going to get their long snouts rubbed in it day by day week by week. HAHAHAHAHAHA. 
SB
Lets explain somethig to you which you did not follow:- Wray is a peron who used his poition to protect political criiminals - even wen the banks informed the FBI that the Bidens werr laundering money he refused to invstigate their reports,
His conduct was outlined in the scandals I quoted above, He was on epson who thought he ws above the law and that when he lies under aoth in the Senate adn House he would be saved by the criminals he protect, He was and is probably best described as a clever bureaucratic crook.
I posted a number of cases where he as openly lying to the House and Senate about things and en fel back on the phrase he invented that he cannot commend on issues relating to current investigations knowing full well that the FBI did not investigate anuthingand ever did.
Ia;ways believe that is he function of bureaucrats to serve the contry and the epeople f he country - when you serve politicians and escaily crooked ones - you are betraying your country and its people. That is what Wray did and that is why he should go.
The problem for Wray is he did nt serve he people of the USA and he served corrupt shit like B iden, elosi and Schiff., The majority of people in the USA lost teir respect fr the FBI as a result. As a result the FBI is for instance not allowed to even speak to the guy being accused of tying to assasinate Trump. I the past two years strings of FBI agents seeing that the institution has gone rogue startd to leak documents to the Senators and House members,
Wray frquently tried to lie himself out of tight situaion and he sis likel tos pend ea in jail for lying under oath, He made a bd for himself and must now suffer the conequences, Biden is likel to try and pardon him - but it is not going to pardon him when lthe crime was lying uderoath to Congress,
As an example - both Wra and Mayorkas was summoned to answer questions ithe Sente about murder of people in the USA by illegal muigrants and bth the two decided to ignore the summons, That alnne shows he regaded himsef as being above te law and is any time even a more serious crie than lying under oath whena nsewring questions. In view of the major scandals he was involved in Trump obviously g ave him the option t resign by annoncing noination of Patel - who peviously served in the white houde in a senior position hen Trump was President. The Senators who dealt wit him bfore egard him as onest and nit abelieving in the FBI playing political game like thy did since 2011. The Snors claimed he is vey efficient and 100% trustworthy and he wil be confirmed as FBI head,
So we wil see what rot Patel will uncover when he became FBI Dirrector. Thee are already reports of destroying of thousands of documents Wray and his cabal is tryng to destroy, Wr ay kne that those ocumens are going to lead to his jail sentence an some FBI agents are trying to make sre that copies of incriminating documents are not destroyedm What Wray fears most is ending up in jail and has been trying all ot o prvent Trump from inning the eelction and the rsult is that Wr ay will end up in jail, I am in a way sory he ent rogue and now ends up bein g forced to resign or being fired, If did is work honestly e uld not hve been in the positin he is now.
Look at the following two videos that is part of the sit Wray caused:-
. https://www.foxnews.com/video/6342410704112
He lied about th so-called Molotove coccktails when confronted, Nobody was arrested or charge on that issuel
,https://www.google.com/search?q=Senator+Hawley+Questioning+Wray&sca_esv=8f1ce1ec8e583385&rlz=1C1YTUH_enZA1068ZA1070&ei=MItcZ-awBOrXhbIPjvaYiAM&start=20&sa=N&sstk=ATObxK6FuOLcD494OcThwh0synePFL9xCUuEx2uJ0GKBgM0cfdtwdQN8terxwhToLR2awGylGUPt6fVtj5p9Vz0Pu8Swwd76C6v3FNF621IG5aNwcSGBTv6gpT396uJr85cb&ved=2ahUKEwjmiNnWvaWKAxXqa0EAHQ47BjE4ChDy0wN6BAgJEAc&biw=1121&bih=689&dpr=1#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:13baffb0,vid:kO15IPtVl9g,st:0
Whatd id Wray pay for using the Government plain to go on vaxcation. Easy answer - what he paid was what a first clss seat cost on on a normal flight. The ohe part was that he should use he plane for official business travelling - not for going on holiday. Above the law conclusivel provedd
"Let's take this as an example. So its correct to say Trump did not tell people to drink bleach, but he did ask if it were possible to treat a COVID patient by injecting disinfectant. To be clear he didn't suggest anyone inject bleach either but he did ask if injecting disinfectant was a possible treatment."
We had long debates about that here where members were adamant that he said injecting bleach was a possible solution. Because, of course the only disinfectant is bleach!?
Secondly, there was nothing stupid about anything he said. It was stupid if you interpreted it in a stupid way. I'll dumb it down for you.
Statement --> "I'm of the firm opinion that some of the best walls one can build are of polygonal bricks. They fit together as tightly as Lego and are earthquake proof."
Lefties --> How monumentally stupid to assume that someone could build walls out of Lego. How irresponsible. People will be building homes from Lego and this will surely result in death.
Right --> Did you read that as people should build houses from LEGO?
Left --> Actually, no...but we are saying that is irresponsible to suggest it.
Right --> Are you saying that it's irresponsible to figuratively compare polygonal building to LEGO?
Left --> Yes, because stupid people could die.
Right --> Okay, Felicia.
"And it's white for the Trump supporters in every case. As in the example of Russian collusion. All you hear from Trump supporters is that he was totally exonerated, they completely gloss over the Trump campaign members or associates that where charged and in some cases convicted due to the Muller investigation. They ignore the fact that many Trump campaign members were found to have links to Russian official and spies. They don't care about Trump associates or campaign team members declining to give or providing false or incomplete testimony. They don't care that relevant communications were not saved, deleted or encrypted. They don't care that Russia was trying to interfere in the election in a major way. They don't care that the Trump team knew about the interference and expected to benefit from it. They don't ever ask themselves why Russia was trying to get Trump elected, they don't ever ask themselves why their preferred candidate is also the preferred choice to be US President of a authoritarian mass murderer like Putin. They also ignore the fact that Muller report specifically did not exonerate Trump oo potential obstruction of justice, where he noted 11 potential examples of it."
When I have more time, I'll go into all the absolute gas lighting double speak horse manure that Star engages in here.
For now, Star...I'll simply provide you with this...
Quotes directly for the Mueller report;
--> On no collusion between the Trump Campaign and Russia: • “The investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.” (Page 2, Volume I)
Perhaps my English sucks but that statement appears rather categorical. And let's remember how many people were interviewed and how thorough the investigation was.
Now here's the bit where Stav tries a touch of gaslighting.
--> On obstruction of justice: • “While this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.” (Page 8, Volume)
This is directly talking about whether or not Trump, his associates or campaign members obstructed the investigation NOT whether he colluded with Russia.
I hope we can agree that colluding with Russia to interfere in an election is by no means the same thing as not fully complying with the investigation into such.
In summary...
The report found ZERO collusion. The report was uncertain whether Trump obstructed the investigation.
Those are the facts.
Now, again read that absolute bullshit that Star wrote above and ask yourself if you think he's being honest or if he's trying to use mental gymnastics in order to allow himself to continue sucking at the TDS teat.
...and let's remember that Putin came out directly in support of Harris.
Burning guessing we had better not ask questions about that, right?
And to answer Star's point ridiculous question as to why Putin wanted Trump to win in 2016...because he despised Hillary for reasons I would explain if I had time or cared.
But there is plenty information out there that explains exactly why.
Here is ChatGPT's sumamry...
Here are the key points explaining why Vladimir Putin reportedly disliked Hillary Clinton and preferred Donald Trump during the 2016 U.S. presidential election: • 2011 Russian Protests: • Hillary Clinton, as U.S. Secretary of State, publicly criticized Russia’s 2011 parliamentary elections, calling them “neither free nor fair.” • Clinton’s comments were seen as encouraging protests against Putin’s regime. Putin accused her of inciting and funding anti-government demonstrations in Russia. • Perceived U.S. Interference: • Putin believed the U.S., under Clinton’s leadership, was trying to undermine his government and destabilize Russia. • He viewed Clinton as part of a broader Western effort to promote regime change, which threatened his power. • NATO Expansion and Foreign Policy: • Clinton’s strong stance in favor of NATO and her tough rhetoric on Russian aggression (e.g., in Ukraine) angered Putin, as he viewed NATO’s expansion as a security threat to Russia. • “Reset” Failure: • The 2009 U.S.-Russia “reset” initiative, led by Clinton during her tenure as Secretary of State, ultimately failed. Putin may have seen this as a sign of her ineffectiveness or unwillingness to work with Russia. • Trump’s Favorable Rhetoric Toward Russia: • Donald Trump expressed a desire to improve U.S.-Russia relations and was less critical of Putin publicly. • Trump questioned the value of NATO and its role, aligning with Putin’s goal to weaken Western alliances. • Clinton’s Hawkish Approach: • Hillary Clinton had a reputation for advocating a strong stance against Russia and was viewed as more “hawkish” on foreign policy. • Putin likely believed a Clinton presidency would mean continued sanctions and stronger opposition to Russia’s geopolitical ambitions. • Putin’s Distrust of Democratic Leaders: • Putin has historically viewed Western leaders, particularly those aligned with democratic ideals like Clinton, as threats to his authoritarian rule. • Trump’s outsider status and admiration for strong leadership may have appealed to Putin.
In summary, Putin’s animosity toward Clinton stemmed from her criticisms of his regime, her support for democracy movements, and her tougher stance on Russia. In contrast, Trump’s rhetoric suggested a more conciliatory approach, aligning better with Putin’s strategic goals.
...but of course Star would attempt to sneak in that Putin wanted Trump to win, as some kind of circumstantial evidence in the case for Russia collusion.
Intellectual dishonesty or TDS? I guess they're the same thing.
Disappointed in you, Star.
The Kremlin has praised the US president-elect Donald Trump’s criticism of Ukrainian strikes with US missiles deep into Russian territory and said the position was fully in line with Moscow’s own position. Trump criticised Ukraine’s use of US-supplied missiles in a Time magazine interview published on Thursday. The Kremlin spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov, said Trump’s statement was in line with “our vision of the causes of escalation … It appeals to us.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/13/ukraine-war-briefing-nato-warns-that-putin-wants-to-wipe-ukraine-off-the-map
Nato secretary general Mark Rutte says people should gird themselves for the prospect that Russia might try to use ‘swarms of drones’ in Europe. What we know on day 1,024
Now we have the BS turning away from Stav lies. Lets get this straight - he only peopele colluding with Putin in he 2016 election was Clinton and her Campaign Manager John Podest - since appointed by Biden in a posh WH job where he can steal more than usual from he Government.
Wrten docmention obtained from Podesta's computer indicated that he had a small company in Boston in which he invested $32 million - bu t that comany was expanded by Rosatrom - a stat te-owned Russian comapny, Aside from that Podesta received a gift of 75 000 shares from a Comapny linked o the Russian Government in 2013. He was appoined by Obama in a WH job and had tio declare is assets. The 75 000 shares he receied Podsta transferred to a company his daughter registered in Vermont. About his Boston company investment bty the Rusians he declared nothng. He resigned from his WH job to become manager of Clinton's elecion campaign in 2016.
However, Podesta was a corrupt idiot so when Clinon started off her allegations aout Rssian Colusion Podesta being already bribed by the Russians got worried and sent an e-mail to Clinton expressing his fear of using the Hoax in the campaign having been bribed by the Russians himself, So Clinto's answer was he needs not worry since she has "direct access into Putin's inner sanctum",
Why was the two idiots guilty and idiotic the same time.
* When the FBI politely asked :Cliton to present he laptop t thm for rher ispection she destroyed her kaotop and destroyed the main drive as well - on its own a criminal offence; and
* Podesta was proved an idiot - who used the word "Password" as his entry code and then a scoundrel got into the computer and duplicated the main board info. That ended up the documents got to Wikileas and ended up in the USA where the FBI got hold of the documents as well.
As to be expected the FBI refused to invesigate the cirrupt relationship between he Clintons', Podesta and the Rssians. What was worse they worked together with the Clinton campaign by spreading lies about the Russian links to the 2016 Democratic Party campaign.
-,
We had long debates about that here where members were adamant that he said injecting bleach was a possible solution. Because, of course the only disinfectant is bleach!?
Its irrelevant that they're disinfectants other than bleach, not only are the two terms often used interchangeably but injecting any kind of disinfectant will either make a person seriously ill or kill them.
Secondly, there was nothing stupid about anything he said. It was stupid if you interpreted it in a stupid way. I'll dumb it down for you.
Not stupid...really? If it was not stupid then why when Trump asked that question to Dr Blix did she react the way she did. A reaction of immense discomfort (something she confirmed in an interview later). If it wasn't stupid, why did disinfectant manufacturers feel the need to issue warnings that their products where not to be used on the human body. And finally while the rate of accidental poisonings with household disinfectants was on the rise before Trump made his comments a notable spike in the rate of them occurred after he made his comments. Yeah not stupid, sure.
Its difficult to know whether people can be that thick they genuinely don't believe those comments were not stupid or that they are so invested into protecting Trump that they just accept whatever counter argument the right wing throws out knowing full well its absolute bullshit. Are they gaslighting or they have just be gaslighted themselves.
--> On no collusion between the Trump Campaign and Russia: • “The investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.” (Page 2, Volume I)
Perhaps my English sucks but that statement appears rather categorical. And let's remember how many people were interviewed and how thorough the investigation was.
Now in fairness I don't expect you to keep a recording of my posts, but I have posted on this forum several times that the Mueller investigation found no evidence of collusion. That does not mean the Mueller report did not raise any other questions.
--> On obstruction of justice: • “While this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.” (Page 8, Volume)
This is directly talking about whether or not Trump, his associates or campaign members obstructed the investigation NOT whether he colluded with Russia.
Again irrelevant. A President should not obstruct an any investigation, regardless of whether he's later to be found innocent or guilty.
I hope we can agree that colluding with Russia to interfere in an election is by no means the same thing as not fully complying with the investigation into such.
Yes they are two different things, both of which if they occurred would be illegal.
The report found ZERO collusion. The report was uncertain whether Trump obstructed the investigation.
Those are the facts.
Now, again read that absolute bullshit that Star wrote above and ask yourself if you think he's being honest or if he's trying to use mental gymnastics in order to allow himself to continue sucking at the TDS teat.
Where are the mental gymnastics. Those were are all questions that rise from the Mueller report.
George Papadopoulos, Rick Gates, Paul Manafort, Michael Flynn, Alex van der Zwaan, Michael Cohen and Roger strone, where all either Trump associates or Trump campaign members (in Manafort's case he was the chair of Trump's presidential campaign) where charged and found guilty of crimes as a result of the Mueller investigation.
What does it say about Trump's character that so many people he was either associated with or picked these people to run his Presidential candidate turned out to be criminals.
What does it say about Trump campaign that they knew about Russian interference and they expected to benefit from it. Shouldn't any political party in the United States call out election interference no matter who's benefiting from it. Shouldn't a political party come and out say, no we don't care if the interference is going to benefit us, we want no part of it, we want to win the election cleanly and fairly.
What does it say about Trump, that Russia and by extension its mass murdering authoritarian leader wanted Trump to win in 2016. It tells you that Putin thought Trump winning would benefit Putin.
What does it say about Trump supporters that they don't seem to care at all that Russian interference in the elections, but will absolutely lose their shit when a Chinese spy balloon appears over the US and they moan on about the democratic president not protecting them from their enemies.
And when later events would come to light showing Russia has a pattern of election interference, again interfering with the 2024 US election and the elections in Romania being the latest example, they never seem to care.
And the question about Trump potentially obstructing the investigation. No Trump supporters don't care about that. He's their team, we must circle the wagon.
But no the Trump free thinkers supporters club will mindlessly parrot "orange man bad" or "TDS" like the good little cult members they are.
...and let's remember that Putin came out directly in support of Harris.
Burning guessing we had better not ask questions about that, right?
Oh my poor simple child, if you believe Putin wanted Biden then Harris to win because of those ahem "public endorsements" well god love you.
In summary, Putin’s animosity toward Clinton stemmed from her criticisms of his regime, her support for democracy movements, and her tougher stance on Russia. In contrast, Trump’s rhetoric suggested a more conciliatory approach, aligning better with Putin’s strategic goals.
...but of course Star would attempt to sneak in that Putin wanted Trump to win, as some kind of circumstantial evidence in the case for Russia collusion.
Intellectual dishonesty or TDS? I guess they're the same thing.
I wasn't putting forward that it was circumstantial evidence in the case for Russian collusion, because regardless of whether or not the Trump campaign colluded with Russia, Russia was found to be interfering in the election and was favoring Trump in that interference. Given the nature of the Putin regime doesn't that make Trump supporters uncomfortable?
Putin wanted Trump to win because yes as you said it better aligned with his strategic goals, which was the undermining of his enemies in the west. Trump wasn't directly under Putin's control but Putin hoped Trump would be an agent of chaos who would undermine American democratic institutions and strain relations with the US's European partners and NATO and would in general be soft on Putin/Russian activities. Putin was partially right but probably hoped Trump would of done more damage, but hey Trump's second term is just around the corner.
Just one more thing - when the Democratic Party accuse the Republican Party of doing something you can be 100% sure they are doing it themselves.
It happened again over the last year in the election campaign. They accused Trump that he would do things and call the Republicans of being Fascist - but what theya ccude Trump of going to do of using the Police and Courts to do against PEOPLE they have done it themselves against their opponents, The fake court cases against Trump and opponents over the time of the Bidens regime they have been involved in themselves, Keeping people in jail for 4 years without charging them of any crime - they have done themselves. Spying illegaly on 278 000 people they have done themselves, The above is exactly what they accuse Trump of,, They had the audacity to claim T rump would do - when they were doing it themselves to opponments.
'I know nothing about Wray....."
You don't have to, simple, just flip whatever bullshit Mike comes up with to get to the truth.
Stav
George Papadopoulos, Rick Gates, Paul Manafort, Michael Flynn, Alex van der Zwaan, Michael Cohen and Roger strone, where all either Trump associates or Trump campaign members (in Manafort's case he was the chair of Trump's presidential campaign) where charged and found guilty of crimes as a result of the Mueller investigation.
Lets look at the above statements on the issue and also the alignment f them with the Russians:-
Papadopoulos - the FBI ried to link him to the Russians and failed totally - their was an approach made to him when he was in the UK t hat turne o ut to be b a m yst erious Professor - who even promised him money to provide the FBI with info on the Trump campaign and he acceped the money and deposited it in a bank accout in Greece. When he returned to he USA they coud not find the money they paid him when they searched him at the airport when he returned to the USA as proof that eh was paid money part of his personal collusion by the Russian. The whole story turned sour and ears later he money was sill in the account in Greece where h e deposited it, The FBI obviously lost the bribe moey they paid to Papadopoulos,
Manafort The act si hat Manafort was never charged with anything relating to liaison with Russia. What was in the Mueller report was that Manafort had a business Partner in doing business in Ukraine. Mueller menioned his partner - but never by name. Mueller hd a good reason to not mention th name becase it was John Podesta - Clinton's 2016 campaign Manager. Bu back tio the charge id against Manafort - it had nothing to do with the Trump Election campaign - it ended up wih manafort be charged with TAX EVASION/ That wa he charge tha t was laid and hat was why e ended up in jail.
Flynn Flynn was nominated as head of he CI A in 2016 and wa already busy wih take-over procedures when the FBI asked to see him and Flynn was an idiot for not having a lawe present - ot realizing thta he was dealing with crooks. After the interview Strzok wo did the inervoew together had to draw up a report on the discussins and found nothing to accuse Flynn of. Then Strzok did a revision - but could still find no criminality on the part of Flynn. Strzok then send the report to his girlfriend who was a legal advisor of Obama and she drew up a falsified report totally distorting what actually happened and send it back to the FBI. That false report was handed to Mueller to lay charges against Flynn. The case dragged on for years and then the FBI threatened Flynn with charging his son with fake charges if he does not admit guilt. At that stage Flynn appointed another lawyer to defend him. She called fo exposure of all documents on he FBI Flynn file. It came to the attenion of Barr and he called for Flynn's file from the FBI, What he found was scandalus abuse of injustice and he withdrew the charges against Flynn. So flynn was neve guilty of nything.
Michel Cohen - He was a lawyer who were paid a retainer by the Trump Companies to deal with minor legal issues f the coanies wned by bthe rump family. What he did in he 2016 election had nothing to do with any colusion. Cohen ended up as being charged with fraud and he was jailed s a result, A s i turned out ehs tole money from the Trump Companies himself as well. What Bragg ca up woud be rown out by any Federal Courts anway,
I did not bother to investigate the other names you mentined because he three you mentieoned arady prove BS in buckets.
I wasn't putting forward that it was circumstantial evidence in the case for Russian collusion, because regardless of whether or not the Trump campaign colluded with Russia, Russia was found to be interfering in the election and was favoring Trump in that interference. Given the nature of the Putin regime doesn't that make Trump supporters uncomfortable?
Putin wanted Trump to win because yes as you said it better aligned with his strategic goals, which was the undermining of his enemies in the west. Trump wasn't directly under Putin's control but Putin hoped Trump would be an agent of chaos who would undermine American democratic institutions and strain relations with the US's European partners and NATO and would in general be soft on Putin/Russian activities. Putin was partially right but probably hoped Trump would of done more damage, but hey Trump's second term is just around the corner.
Jus tell s please were yu gt tha BS from. Must be t he most distoretede BS ever . Appretly sebody put adverts casting $41 000 on one of the media platforms and ou call it being supprt by the Russians. It was totally irrelevent when it came to such advcertisements and is likely to ahve seen by cvrtuaslly nobody. $41 000 dolalrs in an elecion caapign is really ttoal BS spreading and what wa much mre worrisome was theat the Federal Electio Committee fied $100 000 personally fr her invovlement in the payment and promotion of the Steele dossier in the 2016 election;
What you should realze s that the Iran Government spent $25 million on adverts to support Bidens's election campaign amongst Muslim residents in the USA, Iran got a nice retur on their ivestment - within a week after his inauguration released ilegally $108 billion of frozen Iran assets. Now that was indeed eelction interference in 2020.
How much money is spent in U S elections on campaigns.in the USA/ In the 2024 donor provided $1,5 billion in funding of the 2024 election and she spent that amount within 6 weeks with no real proof of where it went and it elft teh DNC wit $20 milion in otstanding debts and heynow have problems to raise that money because he donors regar it as totally reckless spending of money.
I do not know where you go the rest of the shit from - there is zero proof to support your staements and if heir is please provid the proof. What is clear was that in an interviee wit ABC Putin s tated tha he has problms in nevgotiaing with Trump on all issues - because he always put the USA interests first and that was proven a number of times. During the interviee he described Biden as a career politician with no idea of how to run any country.
That is why Putin openly support the Biden and Harris election campaigns - he loved to deal with shit leaders as they are to weak to really act against him - his only meeting with Biden in October 2021 was a typical disaster when Biden did not know what was actually discussed and aftewatds avoided even talking on the phone with Putin. Lets face facts Putin was right in one thing and that is that Biden turned anything he touched into shit.
Here you go, Star...
Trump is a real estate guy...and how do you know he wasn't listening to a conversation about this, and then in a genuine way attempting to convey the principle to the public at a time when people desperately wanted transparency and answers?
"Hydrogen Peroxide (H?O?) has been experimentally explored for its potential to disinfect the lungs, particularly in highly diluted vaporized or aerosolized forms under controlled medical settings."
Now, would you inhale this or might they choose to pump the gas into your lungs...IE inject or pump it...in order to control the dose?
So tell me, is it dangerous speaking about an experimental treatment as a POTENTIAL solution to a problem?
...or is it more dangerous to intentionally misrepresent someone and spread false information during a time of crisis?
Why am I suddenly reminded of yelling "Fire!" in a crowded cinema?
It is actually ironic that the word you choose is dangerous.
"Again irrelevant. A President should not obstruct an any investigation, regardless of whether he's later to be found innocent or guilty."
More mental gymnastic shithousery.
Obstructing justice and colluding Russia are not the same thing.
But in either case...there were zero charges brought against Trump for either.
Now, do you really want to open the guilt by association can of worms? Because I can promise you that what comes out of the Clinton and Biden can will be far more than you can handle.
All I'll say is, and this is common sense to most people, it is impossible to vet every single person that you associate yourself with.
But the bottom line is all that matters, Tump never colluded with Russia and never obstructed justice...so anything else that follows is simply an exercise in face saving.
So since you wanted to ask the question "What kind of person...?"
Lets look at what kicked off the investigation...and then ask ourselves "What kind of people..."
_______________________________________________________________________________
In April 2016, the law firm Perkins Coie, representing Hillary Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign and the Democratic National Committee (DNC), retained Fusion GPS, a research and intelligence firm, to conduct opposition research on then-presidential candidate Donald Trump. Fusion GPS subsequently hired Christopher Steele, a former British intelligence officer, to investigate potential connections between Trump and Russia, resulting in the compilation of the document known as the "Steele dossier."
Financial records indicate that the Clinton campaign paid Perkins Coie approximately $5.6 million in legal fees from June 2015 to December 2016, while the DNC paid the firm about $3.6 million for "legal and compliance consulting" during the same period. However, the specific amounts allocated to Fusion GPS for the dossier are not distinctly itemized in these payments.
In March 2022, the Federal Election Commission (FEC) fined the Clinton campaign $8,000 and the DNC $105,000 for misreporting the funding of the opposition research that led to the Steele dossier. The FEC concluded that these payments were incorrectly disclosed as legal services and consulting, rather than opposition research.
It's important to note that the Steele dossier was not the initial catalyst for the FBI's investigation into potential ties between the Trump campaign and Russia. The FBI's inquiry began prior to obtaining the dossier, based on separate information.
In summary, the Clinton campaign and the DNC, through Perkins Coie, funded Fusion GPS's research, which culminated in the Steele dossier. The misreporting of these expenditures led to FEC fines in 2022.
_____________________________________________________________________________
And then lets look at the FBI...and ask ourselves "What kind of corruption...?"
The FBI's surveillance of former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page during the 2016 election cycle involved several irregularities in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) application process. Key findings include:
Errors and Omissions in FISA Applications: The Department of Justice's Inspector General identified 17 significant inaccuracies and omissions in the FBI's FISA applications to surveil Carter Page. These included misrepresentations of Page's prior relationships with other government agencies and the omission of information that contradicted claims made in the applications.
Reliance on Unverified Information: The FBI heavily relied on the Steele dossier—a collection of reports by former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele—without fully verifying its contents. The applications did not disclose that the dossier was funded by political entities opposing Trump's candidacy.
Lack of Probable Cause: The Justice Department later admitted that two of the four FISA applications to surveil Carter Page lacked probable cause and should not have been issued.
Altering of Evidence: An FBI lawyer altered an email to misrepresent Page's relationship with another government agency, leading to a misstatement in the FISA applications.
These irregularities raised concerns about the FBI's adherence to protocols in politically sensitive investigations and led to calls for reforms in the FISA application process.
_____________________________________________________________________________
So lets recap...
1) The Dems failed to properly vet a dossier that they paid for, and then used it, along with some literally illegal actions by the FBI, to spy on the Trump campaign...which resulted in a massive smear, and long and costly investigation that found...
a) Trump never colluded with Russia and
b) Nobody on the Trump campaign colluded with Russia
c) Trump never obstructed justice
...and here you are, after all these years, and after all the facts have come to light, still twisting your brain into so many shapes to try and justify your TDS.
It's actually laughable and I stand by what i said...
I HAVE NEVER SEEN A BRAINWASHING VENTURE THIS SUCCESFUL IN ALL MY TIME.
...this very thread is direct evidence.
And here's how we seal the deal and prove that, despite your protestations, you're not even nearly as balanced as you believe you are...
Do you believe that what happened to Trump RE the above was illegal?
"Oh my poor simple child, if you believe Putin wanted Biden then Harris to win because of those ahem "public endorsements" well god love you."
No, I absolutely don't believe Putin was actually endorsing Karem-Allah.
Read between the lines if you can...
Years ago, RooiBalls and VisKop asked me to provide them with a clear image of a UFO. I did.
...and shortly after that they were both giddy in replying that the picture was probably fake and that photos can't be trusted.
...are you connecting the dots?
"I wasn't putting forward that it was circumstantial evidence in the case for Russian collusion, because regardless of whether or not the Trump campaign colluded with Russia, Russia was found to be interfering in the election and was favoring Trump in that interference. Given the nature of the Putin regime doesn't that make Trump supporters uncomfortable?"
Bro, what the F does that even mean? Some kind of weird guilt trip?
...and how is it all relevant to a discussion around Trump colluding with Russia, if not being used as some very tedious circumstantial evidence?
Mental gymnastics mixed in with a bit of virtue signalling this time....lolz
It's tough sticking to the facts when they aren't on your side, huh?
Pres
Whatever you said clashed with the "facts" provided by The Guardian to people like Stav and must therefore be false.
So BS reign supreme in Stav's mind. He comes up with the same BS all the time despite that he was told previousl y tha his statements represents BS.
Here you go, Star...
Trump is a real estate guy...and how do you know he wasn't listening to a conversation about this, and then in a genuine way attempting to convey the principle to the public at a time when people desperately wanted transparency and answers?
Doesn't matter what his intentions where, all his Covid press conferences did was make everything less clear as he fought with the experts.
"Hydrogen Peroxide (H?O?) has been experimentally explored for its potential to disinfect the lungs, particularly in highly diluted vaporized or aerosolized forms under controlled medical settings."
Now, would you inhale this or might they choose to pump the gas into your lungs...IE inject or pump it...in order to control the dose?
Does it not get embarrassing defending the indefensible. So this is another trick the Trump defenders do, they go look up some obscure experimental research that as I can see was conducted years after Trump's comments to say look he's not stupid. Yes was stupid because he specifically asked has injecting disinfectant into Covid patients been looked at, during a live televised press conference that was likely viewed by millions of people and would be widely reported on afterwards. The President of the United States can have considerably influence over large swathes of the US population, so what he said was incredibly stupid and also downright dangerous.
I also I notice you didn't acknowledge Dr Brix's reaction, the fact that disinfectant manufactures had to start issuing warning about their products to not be used on the human body nor the spike in accidental poisonings from household disinfectants after Trump's comments.
So tell me, is it dangerous speaking about an experimental treatment as a POTENTIAL solution to a problem?
He wasn't talking about that treatment and you know it ,but even if he was then absolute it would still have been dangerous, because when the President of the United States asks that question, it puts the idea into people's head that disinfectant can be used to treat illnesses.
...or is it more dangerous to intentionally misrepresent someone and spread false information during a time of crisis?
OMG that lack of awareness is insane. Trump is probably the biggest signal source of false information on the planet and here you are saying the problem is misinformation about Trump. Absolutely mental.
Obstructing justice and colluding Russia are not the same thing.
Strawman, did I say they where?
But in either case...there were zero charges brought against Trump for either.
I didn't say they where charges brought against Trump. But in my mind and in the mind of others the fact that Mueller investigation didn't get full co-operation and access too all communication records leaves it an open question as to whether Trump or the Trump campaign did or did not collude.
Now, do you really want to open the guilt by association can of worms? Because I can promise you that what comes out of the Clinton and Biden can will be far more than you can handle.
ROFL, like what. Can we come back to this in 4 years time when a big fat nothing burger had been unearthed about Clinton and Biden.
All I'll say is, and this is common sense to most people, it is impossible to vet every single person that you associate yourself with.
This is a fair enough point but only to a degree. You could argue that if it was just or two people and you could argue that in the case of George Nader but the sheer amount of people charged indicates its more than just poor vetting. Some of the people charged where long time associates and appointed to very senior positions by Trump himself. And its not just associates of Trump from the 2016 Presidential Campaign team, we have other associates of Trump charged with crimes from other criminal cases and investigations into Trump or the Trump organization.
I have got in the habit of not reading Mike’s posts, they are long and totally biased. But I must admit he totally obliterates Anger’s long, rambling totally biased post above….worth a read actually.
Bro, what the F does that even mean? Some kind of weird guilt trip?
...and how is it all relevant to a discussion around Trump colluding with Russia, if not being used as some very tedious circumstantial evidence?
ROFL I can just imagine the outrage you be on here screaming if the interference had been determined to be in the democrats favor.
So tell me if say for example a Presidential candidate was getting endorsements from say hard line communists that advocated for Stalinist policies, or the Klu Klux clan endorsed a Presidential candidate that wouldn't make you pause for a moment and question why are these types of people where endorsing that candidate.
Mental gymnastics mixed in with a bit of virtue signalling this time....lolz
It's tough sticking to the facts when they aren't on your side, huh?
LOL you're relationship to facts is like Mike's relationship with reality, virtually non existent.
Stav
"Well the official findings could not prove the Trump campaign colluded with Russia so I've no issue with Trump facing no consequences for something that could not be proved and being free to pursue his political career, but the fact the Mueller report said they did not receive the full co-operation of the Trump campaign team nor access to all the communication records as well as receiving false testimony leaves a question mark in mind over whether Trump campaign did or did not collude with Russia, If the Mueller Report has said it got access to all the evidence and got the full co-operation of everyone in the Trump campaign and also had not suggested Trump tried to obstruct the investigation I would of considered Trump totally cleared, but they didn't hence my position, is that its an open question."
You are talikng sht again. Mueller's team requested and got over 3 million documets during their investigation and Trump's prvided all the documents they requested, The WH acually moaned ey ad t use saff full tme to find and provide up to 30 000 documents. per week. The term could find nothing ad the remak was aimed at showing they did somethinng usful and encessary - while wasting millions in the process, By te way the commenis was legal shit - nobody not even a [preosdent of e USA can exconerate anybody - the pardon function only relate to people already charged and sentenced. There is not a single referene to "exconerate" iro anybody who allegedly committrdd a crime. It is non-existent in USA jurisprudence.
What is happening under Biden is is not pardoning Hunter Biden - he tried to exonerate im - which will be cancelled by the Supree Court. Mueller was confronted about the use of the word exconerate amd his comments was he knows that it is not an acceptable legal term and wanted to bring it to the attention of Barr by usng that term. That excuse took the cake and his evidence in the House collapse into shit. The Democrats wanted to use Mueller's report to impeach Trump and it was at best an exerciise costing millions and producing nothing.
If their is a brainwased idiot comparable t you he mst be a genius BS spreader like you. None of the stories you routinely are based on fake media reports and without any proof whasoever. You live in a make-believe world of ultra-leftist dreams and as far from east is from the west.
By the way Harris what got support and endorsements from Russia and China as was seen in he state-controlled media in both countries, DO YOU SUPPORT THAT AS WELL?
In 2020 Biden sent Kerry to make a deal ith the Iran Governent - who spent millions in advertsig supporting Biden in return Biden illegally unfroze $108 billion in frozen Iran money a week after his inaugiration. The fact is that rn media and internet support was clear - the fact of unrozing of the $108 billion es uncovered during enate investigations.
So both Biden and Harris did you hat you referred to - so do you till believe what you wrote above. .
Here are the facts relating to the Russia Investigation convictions...
"The Russia collusion investigation, formally led by Special Counsel Robert Mueller, focused on Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election and potential links between Russia and Donald Trump’s campaign. The investigation resulted in several charges, convictions, and guilty pleas, though it ultimately found insufficient evidence to prove criminal conspiracy between Trump’s campaign and Russia.
Here’s a summary of key individuals charged and convicted:
1. Paul Manafort • Role: Former Trump campaign chairman. • Charges: • Financial crimes, including tax fraud, bank fraud, and failure to report foreign bank accounts. • Conspiracy against the United States (unrelated to collusion but tied to lobbying work in Ukraine). • Convictions/Plea: • Convicted on eight counts of financial fraud. • Pleaded guilty to conspiracy charges in a separate case. • Outcome: Sentenced to 7.5 years in prison; later pardoned by Trump.
2. Michael Flynn • Role: Former National Security Advisor. • Charges: Lying to the FBI about conversations with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak. • Convictions/Plea: Pleaded guilty in December 2017. • Outcome: Awaiting sentencing when the case was dropped by the Department of Justice in 2020. Trump later pardoned Flynn.
3. Roger Stone • Role: Trump ally and political consultant. • Charges: • Obstruction of justice. • Witness tampering. • Lying to Congress about his communications related to WikiLeaks. • Convictions: Convicted on all counts in November 2019. • Outcome: Sentenced to 40 months in prison. Trump commuted his sentence and later pardoned him.
4. Michael Cohen • Role: Trump’s personal attorney and “fixer.” • Charges: • Campaign finance violations. • Tax evasion. • Lying to Congress about Trump’s Moscow Tower project. • Convictions/Plea: Pleaded guilty to all charges in 2018. • Outcome: Sentenced to 3 years in prison.
5. Rick Gates • Role: Deputy Trump campaign chairman and Paul Manafort’s business partner. • Charges: • Conspiracy against the United States. • Lying to the FBI. • Convictions/Plea: Pleaded guilty in 2018. • Outcome: Cooperated with prosecutors and received a 45-day sentence, probation, and a fine.
6. George Papadopoulos • Role: Trump campaign foreign policy advisor. • Charges: Lying to the FBI about his contacts with individuals connected to Russia. • Convictions/Plea: Pleaded guilty in 2017. • Outcome: Sentenced to 14 days in prison and a fine.
7. Alex van der Zwaan • Role: Dutch attorney with ties to Manafort and Gates. • Charges: Lying to the FBI about his contacts with Gates and a Russian intelligence-linked individual. • Convictions/Plea: Pleaded guilty in 2018. • Outcome: Sentenced to 30 days in prison and fined.
8. Konstantin Kilimnik • Role: Business associate of Paul Manafort. • Charges: Obstruction of justice (related to witness tampering). • Outcome: Kilimnik, a Russian national, remains at large and is unlikely to face trial.
9. 12 Russian Intelligence Officers • Charges: Hacking into the Democratic National Committee (DNC), Hillary Clinton’s campaign, and leaking emails. • Outcome: Charged in absentia; they remain at large in Russia.
10. 13 Russians and the Internet Research Agency • Charges: Conspiracy to defraud the United States by conducting disinformation campaigns to influence the 2016 election. • Outcome: Charged in absentia; no individuals have faced trial.
Summary of Key Outcomes • Total Indictments: 34 individuals and 3 companies. • Guilty Pleas or Convictions: Multiple Trump associates (Manafort, Flynn, Cohen, Stone, Gates, Papadopoulos). • Russian Nationals: Charged but not apprehended.
The Mueller Report concluded that while there were numerous contacts between the Trump campaign and Russians, it did not find sufficient evidence of criminal conspiracy. However, it noted evidence of obstruction of justice by President Trump, though no charges were brought."
Just to show you how stupid most of this is...
There's a podcast called "Call me daddy".
The woman that hosts it was asked if Kamala spent $100k on building the set for her interview on the podcast. The woman laughed and said she interviews Karen-Allah on the same set she interviews all her guests on and it's total value was nowhere near $100k.
Well, in the financial, Karem-Allah had $100k listed as expenses to build the set for the podcast.
So right there is some campaign fun fraud.
...no I know you can wait to shout "whataboutism" but let's see if you can think past that and draw your own conclusion Bathini making.
Now that's just one that we know about. But what happens when you spend, wasn't it $20 million, investigating a person and all their associates?
I think you know the answer and it becomes a case of "show me the man and I'll show you the crime."
Which you're obviously cool with.
But where is the Russia Collusion, Star?
Because that's what we're talking about...
BB
I must pea with you not to demean yourself by coming up with The Guardin BS again.
I have got in the habit of not reading Mike’s posts, they are long and totally biased. But I must admit he totally obliterates Anger’s long, rambling totally biased post above….worth a read actually.
Gotta love Moz's transparently pathetic attempts at trolling.
There's a podcast called "Call me daddy".
The woman that hosts it was asked if Kamala spent $100k on building the set for her interview on the podcast. The woman laughed and said she interviews Karen-Allah on the same set she interviews all her guests on and it's total value was nowhere near $100k.
Well, in the financial, Karem-Allah had $100k listed as expenses to build the set for the podcast.
So right there is some campaign fun fraud.
Nope...the host of that podcat did not interview Kamala on her normal set which is in Los Angeles. She compared her normal set to one that that was built for the interview in Washington DC.
I'm going give you the benefit of the doubt that you misread or misheard what she said.
But there was no campaign fraud. At most you could accuse Kamala of getting bad value for money.
...no I know you can wait to shout "whataboutism" but let's see if you can think past that and draw your own conclusion Bathini making.
But where is the Russia Collusion, Star?
Because that's what we're talking about...
Where did I say there definitively was collusion. I'm happy to acknowledge as I've done repeatedly the Mueller report said in its finding that they not able to prove collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. But in my own personal opinion the fact that Mueller's team could not get access to all the relevant communications and witnesses gave false testimony is suspicious. To my mind while Trump is legally in the clear I don't consider the question definitively answered either way. But I'm not saying the Trump campaign definitely did collude. And what I absolutely dispute is that the investigation in the first place was a hoax or a political witch hunt. The Russian Hoax as its called its another bullshit narrative trotted out by the Trumpites.
Ah, I watched it again. Yeah, they built a cheap set.
But by your reasoning, anyone can spend any figure on anything and the excuse can simply be that they got ripped off.
I mean, really?
In your world, money laundering must be really easy hahaha
The point remains, if you look hard enough you'll always find irregularity and this is a good example.
Your personal opinion vs the weight of the biggest investigation into a President in modern times…..and the absolute commitment of major government departments to find a guilty verdict? Your problem is you can’t think out of the woke box.
Trump’s team talked to the Russians before the election….no crime.
Trump in a moment of hubris in a Covid briefing tried to turn the briefing into a think tank and speculated about using bleach….but clearly said it would have to be looked at.
Trump blessed the protest to contest the election results, but to imply this rabble could change anything by force is conveniently naive.
Were some of those actions unwise….certainly. Was January 6 disqualifying. I believe so, but the electorate decided differently.
It’s pretty simple and no amount of internet search is going to change that. Politics is imperfect. One only needs look at what Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton did to understand that.
Bullshit Stav
In the time the Mueller investigation took place 0 the Muller team requested circa 3 million documents and all those were provided to them. There were no cases where a request were bt cmplied with, Mueller add a sentence the word "exconerate" a term not included in US Judicial Processes, Nobody in the USA has the right to "exconerate" does not exists and sage the word resulted on im being made a fool of in the House Hearing on the Mueller Report. That led to his total embarrassment,
So your emphasis on what somebody who wrote the report landed Mueller in a very embarrassing situation. Incidentally I do not think Muekker himself wrote the report. He did not know too many times to what members phrase their questions on and Mueller was clueless and the members had to provide the page number where it related question camwe from.
Stav
Trump’s team talked to the Russians before the election
Who was involved and when did it happen?
Ah, I watched it again. Yeah, they built a cheap set.
But by your reasoning, anyone can spend any figure on anything and the excuse can simply be that they got ripped off.
I mean, really?
In your world, money laundering must be really easy hahaha
The point remains, if you look hard enough you'll always find irregularity and this is a good example.
By all mean's criticize it as a waste of money, but it doesn't necessarily mean it was fraud or an irregularity. I'm not even sure that figure actually has been confirmed but even if if that number is confirmed as accurate, on its own it doesn't prove anything.
Your personal opinion vs the weight of the biggest investigation into a President in modern times…..and the absolute commitment of major government departments to find a guilty verdict?
Personal opinion. Just as how its your personal opinion that there was an absolute commitment of a major government departments to find a guilty verdict. Perhaps they were just looking for the truth.
Your problem is you can’t think out of the woke box.
Your problem is you think woke is a thing.
Trump in a moment of hubris in a Covid briefing tried to turn the briefing into a think tank and speculated about using bleach….but clearly said it would have to be looked at.
It wasn't the moment to turn the briefing into a think tank. And don't use the word bleach or Plum will be on your case.
Trump blessed the protest to contest the election results, but to imply this rabble could change anything by force is conveniently naive.
Yes that rabble was never going to succeed in change by force but that's not the point. It was still an attempt to prevent the democratic process and an incident that resulted in death and injuries that Trump at the very least indirectly incited.
Were some of those actions unwise….certainly. Was January 6 disqualifying. I believe so, but the electorate decided differently.
Unwise is far too kind a word, some of his actions were utterly disgraceful.
It’s pretty simple and no amount of internet search is going to change that. Politics is imperfect. One only needs look at what Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton did to understand that.
Of course politics is imperfect and there is plenty of genuine criticisms that can be put at the feet of those two, but neither of them tried to subvert the democratic process.
Utterly disgraceful…..perhaps but I never endorsed any of them….but not as disgraceful and malignant as the Russia hoax, which had your full support
Evidence acceptable in a court of law is the missing ingredient. It was a hoax crafted for naive left wing anti Trumpers.
Mama Mia - you cannot be as serious as papa pia. There were three investigations - the first on could find nothing and inserted a word that is not part of USA jurisprudenc, However it is havng an extremely different opinion when used by Democrats, I want to refer you to the recent Special Council Hur's report on the Biden found at various centers - which Biden took with him the report indicated that Biden suffered from having a poor memory and mentally deficient so Hur recmmended that legal action not be taken since they would rather see him ent to a asylum for mentall impared people,
Democratic Members came up with imilar comments and that is that Hyr "excomerated" Bden. His only retort was did u fnd yjay word in my report, I must codirm again the word concrned has no egl meaning at all in USA Jurisprudnce, ,
It was a hoax crafted for naive left wing anti Trumpers.
The "Russian Hoax" as it was called was simply a Trumpian narrative to attack the legitimacy of the investigations into Russian election interference and the links between Trump associates and Russia. The navie right wing Trumper's of course lapped it up without question.
The ‘navie’ right….time to go to bed Anger, you’ve had a rough day.
Uh-oh back to the old time favourite weapon....... Spellcheck.
Anyone up for grammar lessons on a rugby message board?
Denise, that bleach you downed wasn't the quality stuff.
The ‘navie’ right….time to go to bed Anger, you’ve had a rough day.
Nobody should relly care abt your hilarious BS speading. With you proven facs means nothig if i clash with your prejudiced BS you are spreding.
You up for it Denise….you know you want another grammar lesson. Oh okay in the same sentence, notice that ‘Trumper’s’ is in the possessive, when it should be in the plural. Also notice that unlike your master who would have put (sic) inside the quotations I correctly left it out. So many lessons, such a short sentence….I trust you are schooled. Here for convenience is the offending sentence.
‘The navie right wing Trumper's of course lapped it up without question‘
You know Moz has no argument left when he starts trying to derail a thread over grammar.
Stav
The "Russian Hoax" as it was called was simply a Trumpian narrative to attack the legitimacy of the investigations into Russian election interference and the links between Trump associates and Russia. The navie right wing Trumper's of course lapped it up without question.
I cannot believe you wrote the above as factual after thee inestifgations found there were no proof of ny collusion between Trump and the Russians at all. The fct is that teh whole saga stememd from lies cononcted by the D emocrats and sprad by the DNC and the Obama adminisraion.
If you do believe the BS I give up on you on having any logic and that you aspire to be King of he Site BSters. , .
You know Moz has no argument left when he starts trying to derail a thread over grammar.
Well Stav it's a bit like this......
By the wya Denn - I abhor what the Apartheid Govenment did to people like you - but it surprises me that you support similar conduct of he US Govenment under Biden. What the Apartheid regime did was horible - what the Biden dministration did were equally or even more horible.
congrats to Mike, Plum and all who so ably demolished poor StavAss.
Its astonishing that even today StavAss and the very dense denise still has no idea that he has been made a total fool of by the Globalist propaganda machine.
As Mark twain famously said its easer to fool folk than to get them to realize they have been fooled.
PLEASE NOTE THAT MOZZIE THINKS TRUMPS ROLE IN J6 WAS DISQAULIFYING. NOTE THIS BECAUSE THE J6 NARRATIVE HAS ALREADY COLLAPSED AND 2025 WILL SEE THE END OF THIS DEMONRAT HOAX. MOUNTAINS OF EGG WILL LAND!
clevermike
Hall Of Famer53,938 posts
If Wray was honest and didn't turn the FBI into a criminal protection agency he would not have to resign - but could have ended his term with honour. He lied repeatedly to the House and Senate when questioned or avoid answering by claiming that a certain issue was being investigted when he knew their were no invesigation done. He was the FBI head when the FIS court found the FBI illegally spied on 278 000 people and it was under his wach that the FBI met with media and press the media and internet platforms to censor news that would have put the Biden Regime in a bad light - which was against the USA Constitution.
Let me add that when Smith laid charges in the Florida Court the judge found that there were two fake photos of what they claimed were taken at Trump's home - but took elsewhere and spread to the media, the Judge found to be fakes, she was not amused, When she ordered that all the documents taken be submitted to the court within 14 days - the Judge threatened that if the documents were not provided within 14 days Smith and Wray would face charges of contempt of Court. The FBI took 32 boxes of documents from Trump's home, but the FBI deliverd only 21 boxes and documents from the 21 boxes were missing as well. The Judge had enough of undermining of court and threw the case out. Obviously Wray's belief was that he was above the law.