Denny - for your info

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Jan 11, 2021, 07:16

As you are well aware the selection of players to play for the Proteas is a farce and is influenced by the lunacy of the present selectors and by the quota system.   Once in the team it is virtually impossible for players to be dropped irrespective of whether the players are actually producing the goods or fail to do so.

We do not see provincial three day games on TV,  but they do show the Momentum Cup One Day Games on DSTV,   As you may have noticed there are some players in that series that I am keeping an eye on.   The one player I have been really impressed with is a guy by the name of Grant Roelofsen.

Roelofsen stands out because of the following:-

*    In the 10 Momentum Cup games last year he made 588 runs for an average of 58,8 runs per innings batted.   He was as a result the 50-over Player of the Year in SA,

*    In all versions of the game - ie three-day games, one-day games and T20's - his stats are better than those of Elgar and Markram.

*    The series for this year just started and in the two games he played in he made 157 runs at a strike rate of over 9  0.   

I am not the only one impressed by Roelofsen's  performances - look at the following article as well:-

Grant Roelofsen's brilliant form leads Dolphins to One-Day Cup weekend double | Sport (news24.com)

I do not know whether you saw him playing yet - but of all the players I follow in the present series he is the best performer.  I was very impressed with what I saw thus far and firmly believe that if he played cricket in Australia he would already have been selected by the national team to play in all versions of the game.

Only in SA he has a skin pigmentation problem - too White for the selectors to consider him.   However, I wanted to bring the above to your attention hoping for a response as to the said player.   Only in SA the Player of the Year in a competition in which all Protea players participated would such a Player not be in the national squad,  If he is not in the T20 squad going to Pakistan it will be a national disgrace     

Of the other players I am watching the one all-rounder that impressed me is a guy by the name of Ruan de Swardt,   He is an acceptable batsman batting at no 3 for the Dolphins - but I am pleasantly  surprised by the fact that he took 5  wickets in the first two games he played in.   Would be a nice all-rounder to have around at national level - especially in the shorter versions of the game as back-up for Mulder.  

         

    

Jan 11, 2021, 10:32

Thanks for that mate, I only get to watch the players when they play at international level. As for their mandatory selection policy, don't really think they care about winning and if they do then they must think they can win selecting club level players with the "right" skin colour. No matter, whatever the ANC touches turns to shit. The nightmare started with Justin Ontong and it hasn't stopped.....did you ask Justin who? Yeah right ...whatever happened to that useless turd!

Jan 11, 2021, 11:34

Ontong is now a batting coach for one of the Franchises - imagine that!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Nothing is impossible in Democratic SA - with bribery and corruption  being the most prominent achievements.  

Deputy Judge Zondo of the Constitutional Court has been appointed to investigate corruption   in SA under Jacob Zuma.   He has been busy with the investigation for more than two years and 31 witnesses gave evidence  against Jacob Zuma and he was summoned to appear before Judge Zondo and did go - with a suggestion that he is a friend of Zondo  and should not be required to give evidence to he Commission,   The Judge then decided to have a tea break to allow him to consider the Zuma request.   During the tea break Zuma just decamped and Judge Zondo laid a criminal  charge against him and  took up the matter with the Constitutional Court for an order to Zuma to appear before the Commission.

The Secretary General of the ANC has been charged  with corruption involving over  R200 million spent on replacement of asbestos roofs from the  government housing for the poor.  Problem no asbestos roofing ahs been replaced and the money spent.   The ANC refuse to do anything about his obvious thievery.

As to sport - the SAC was run by crooks  who raided the organization.   The result was that Standard Bank and other institutions that funded cricket decided to opt out of  cricket sponsorship because association with CSA would tarnish their image,   A battle has developed between the Minister of Sport and the CSA Board and because they refuse to act n a number of specialist reports he suspended the Board and now a Temporary Committee under an ex-constitutional judge with whom I worked when I was in Government , is the Chairman of the Temporary Board.   Sound OK - but the said very good ex-judge is blind.  

The problem is not only in the Administration - it goes to the selections of teams as well.   The  selection committee members are clueless and the first thing the Interim Board  should do is to abolish the selection committee  and let Smith and Boucher select the team. with realistic guidelines to ensure that players are selected on merit with an allowance that if players of color are equal in merit with White player - the selection should go to the player of color.   Rassie set that example in rugby team selection and he is never attacked by anybody for being a racist - why can the same not be done iro cricket?

            .              

Jan 11, 2021, 12:38

India did well.

Jan 11, 2021, 15:30

Agree with you Mike

Roelofsen will get picked at some point. I am in no doubt.

I've also had my eye on de Swardt since his amateur debut. He looks like he is a complete package.

We have a lot of young all-round talent coming through.


@den...

i agreee... ontong was selected purely on skin color... which is neever ideal.

But "whatever happened to that useless turd!"... he didn't select himself... so i'd rather call the selectors / politicians turds as they were the idiots that forced his selection. Justin is a decent bloke... who became a victim of our political crap.

Jan 11, 2021, 16:13

So lets select a team consisting of f talented players for future development:-

Tests

Markram

Roelofsen

Van Tonder

Hamza

Verreinne

De Kock

Mulder

Nortje

Shamsi

Rabada

Sipamla/Ngidi

There is unfortunately no Black batsmen coming through and I let out the 30 year-old Bavuma since he is inconsistent and I cannot see a future for him in the team.

I think the future captain will be Van Tonder,

ODI's/T20I's

Markram

Roelofsen

De Swardt

De Kock

Verreinne

Mulder

M Pretorius

Shamsi

Nortje 

Rabada

Ngidi and Sipamla cannot abt to save their lives and that type of bowler is not really of value in the shorter versions of the game.   They obviously can be back-up for Rabada and Nortje.

There is a host of other young batsmen coming through - but I limit the list to what i see as really top batsmen and bowlers. 

  



Jan 11, 2021, 16:29

Verrayne needs to score a few more big hundreds before he can break into the test team's top 6.

He it talented... but needs some big hundreds. To memory... i think he's only scored 2 or 3 hundreds in about 40 games.


Roelofsen yes... but not as a test opener... yet.

I'd rather try Janneman Malan as a test opener.


Funnily enough... de Swardt averages about 50 in first class cricket... and offers something with the ball, yet you'd rather go with Roelofsen in a test side who averages about 40? Do you follow much first class cricket?

I'm also not sure about Shamsi in the test side.


Jan 11, 2021, 17:34

There can be doubts about some players - but in the main there provincial performances are better than those of existing Protea batsmen.   It is just for fun and discussion that I pick the above team - so I will welcome other contributions on how you see the future insofar as teams are concerned..

  

Jan 11, 2021, 18:38

de Swardt is more than just acceptable as a bat

He is a quality bat who can bowl a bit

His first class average is 55 which is bloody impressive

Jan 11, 2021, 18:52

Dave

Thank you.   I like De Swardt a lot and from what I have seen he is a must in the ODI and T20I teams and maybe a good proposition in the test team as well.     He is the biggest wicket taker thus far in the Momentum Cup and he will to my mind - together with Mulder - be especially good in the shorter versions of the game as well.

  

Jan 11, 2021, 18:52

Dave

Thank you.   I like De Swardt a lot and from what I have seen he is a must in the ODI and T20I teams and maybe a good proposition in the test team as well.     He is the biggest wicket taker thus far in the Momentum Cup and he will to my mind - together with Mulder - be especially good in the shorter versions of the game as well.

  

Jan 11, 2021, 18:56

My side would be:

Markram

Janneman Malan

Roelofsen

van Tonder

de Kock

Verreynne

Andile

Maharaj

Rabada

Nortje

Ngidi

Backup side would be:

Marques Ackerman

Josh Richards

Hamza

Rickelton

de Swardt

Breedtske

Mulder

Coetzee

Linde

Sipamla

Migael Pretorious

Jonathan Bird is another class act who is only 19 and could easily replace one of the bats

Jan 12, 2021, 05:58

Dave 

I like your sides a lot - but there is one thing that bothers me about  Andile and I think that you also have reservations about him not being in your first side,

In the first instance I am not sure whether  the Dolphins still regard him  as an all- rounder. looking  at their line-ups they bat him in position 5  or 6 and not as a 7 or even 8,  In other words he is in their side as primarily a batsman.   That repressents a problem - if he is considered as a batsman alone he is not good enough to make the Protea side.

To a substantial degree his performances in the last two games seems it have being a confirmation if how he is viewed by them:-

Batting

 In the first game against the Titans he started out very slowly and then gradually improved his strike rate and scoring of runs.   In the end he made 52 runs - which obviously was acceptable.

In the second match he started equally slowly - 6 runs frim 11 balls - and then his a ball high into the sky - which normally is a textbook catch and while the ball was in the air  they made one run and when the catcher fouled up in his attempt to catch the ball a second run followed so  his tally was 8 runs of 12 balls,   The next ball he hits a 6 giving him 14 runs off 13 balls,   That was followed by 4  no-run balls  and at ball 17 he was out,   Not really a good enough effort,

Bowling    

In the first match he bowled two ineffective overs - followed by 3 balls in the third over,   He then left the field and was treaded for some injury or another,   After he cane back onto the field he was given another 3 overs to bowl - be was ineffective.   He did not take any wickets and was too expensive,

In the second test he bowled only 6 overs - 4 in his first session and 2  in the second session,  His bowling was very poor - he gave away 44  runs in the 6 overs bowled, and took no wickets,   Totally inadequate I am afraid,

Something seems to be amiss but  I do not know what it is,    ,                 ,                    

Jan 12, 2021, 11:25

Andile is a very similar bowler to Mulder both would be your 5th best in your line up. You can’t judge him based on his last game. He has already more than proved himself as a bowler in ODI’s. Given he and Mulder are average bowlers, they will often not produce great results. You can’t expect much more from your 5th bowler. They do a job. Sometimes they shine but most times they are just solid or take a beating. Same will happen to Mulder

I’d be more than happy to have Andile ahead of Mulder in my sides above

In fact I prefer Andile at this stage as he has shown me more at international level than Mulder

That might change but for now I prefer Andile and have swapped them in my sides

Neither are bowlers who are going to rip through sides regularly - both are handy 5th bowlers

Both have good batting techniques so they look the parts as number 7 bats

I don’t judge where they are batting in 50 over cricket, it’s where they bat in the long format that counts

Jan 12, 2021, 12:26

Dave 

You cannot be serious about using Andile in tests - he was a failure in tests and build up his reputation in ODI's,   Andile only played in four tests and that shows that even experts think of him only for ODI selection.   He failed in both  batting and bowling in the tests he played in.  

In just three tests Mulder showed that he is a much better all rounder both in batting and bowling than  Andile is on test level.   That is why he never was a selection proposition on test level and account for his four tests - of those three were against Bangladesh om September -October 2017 and he had one further test he played in after that,   All  11 wickets he took was against Bangladesh,    After that series he played in exactly one test and he vanished from sight on test level,      

In ODI's it is a different story,   Andile played in 58 ODI's and  Mulder only in 10.   It is therefore too early to make a comparison between the two.    However,  that is why I think his performances in the present series is important,    From what I have seen thus far his bowling has gone backwards in leaps and bounds, while his batting is solid.

My contention is always that a player who under-performs on provincial level cannot be  expected to be top class on higher level.   One has to watch what happens in future, to see whether he will get back on his feet in bowling,            

       

Jan 12, 2021, 12:55

"Andile is a very similar bowler to Mulder"

In terms of pace, yes.

But in terms of shape and bounce.... no

Mulder is primarily anaway swing bowler.

Andile... bowls a nice in dipper and gets a bit more bounce than mulder.


Their skill levels are similar...

But Andile is not a batsmans ass.... he'll never be a consistent all rounder. Don't think he's got great concentration.

He'll get out of shit on occasions, but I dont see him averaging over 20 in tests.

Please don't swear at me.

Jan 12, 2021, 17:34

Chippo 

Dave would call you a few nasty names - of that you can be certain.   However, I have a question for you/   Did you watch the two games?

I think that the main reason why the Dolphins is curtailing the bowling by Andile is that he may be unfit and rather looking more and more like Frylink in the waste area.  Maye he was always like that - but I do believe when he did play in shorter versions of the game on international level he was  much slimmer than he is now.

Just have a look and tell me whether I am wrong on that one.   May be wrong - it is just a question for everyone on board who watched the games,                  

Jan 12, 2021, 19:51

Disagree Chip

Both bowlers rely on movement off the pitch not through the air

I’m guessing Mulder is able to exert more control

Completely disagree with you on the batting front you are speaking utter shit

The left handed Andile looks to more gifted of the two and to date has done a better job with the bat at international level than Mulder has.

Problem with Andile is that he is a bit of a dasher like de Kock which is his undoing

My guess is that Mulder is better at building an innings. To be fair I have not seen much of Mulder as a bat so the jury is out on him for me

Andile does have fight and BMT which you can’t learn. I’m guessing Mulder does to but I’m yet to see it

Jan 12, 2021, 20:07

I agree with Chip regarding Andile.
His 1st class batting average isn't fantastic either. Does he have any 1st class hundreds?
In fewer matches, I think Mulder has about 4 or 5 hundreds.

Jan 12, 2021, 21:11

I’m yet to see Mulder do anything at international level with the bat - he has failed to date

Time will tell

But of course the useless selectors keep missing the targets, Andile like a good few others should be in the test squad

Andile is far better than the never been Pretorious who is now past it anyway

Jan 12, 2021, 21:19

Andile is a better bowler.

Pretorius is a better bat.

He hasn’t done well at international cricket, but he is still a better bat than andile.

Though their international bowling averages in tests are very similar.

Jan 12, 2021, 21:38

FD

Andile has no hundreds and 1 fifty on provincial level - average 21,36

Mulder has 5 hundreds and 5 fifties on the same level -  average  38,7

Similar in performances?????????????  

Jan 12, 2021, 23:59

Pretorious is definitely not a better bat than Andile

I don’t give a shit about Mulder vs Andile’s first class performances

I’m talking the next level being international cricket where Andile has been better than Mulder to date

Mulder has to prove he can bat at international level - he has failed so far

Andile has won us some ODI’s with the bat - that says much more than a first class average

Jan 13, 2021, 01:03

sorry mike... im not with you?

i never said their batting was similar.

are you perhaps confused?

Jan 13, 2021, 02:11

How was he better than Mulder on test level,   Dave?  Cover the bowling and batting  aspecxts please,    

Both had very little test experience - so the only real comparison is in reality on provincial games.  where I gave the batting stats.  So here is the bowlong stats. 

Andile   - 42  matches    =  61  wickets

Mulder     35 matches    =   99 wickets

You are on the wrong horse here - in fact you are on a donkey.

Jan 13, 2021, 02:46

I had high hopes for Andile, thought the future belonged to him, anyone who cares to dig into the archives will see I've sung his praises. 

Jan 13, 2021, 07:26

Denny

So have I in the ODI and T20I competitions  - but he vanished from the test team selections already in 2017 after a poor season on provincial level and so did Mulder.   The difference is that Mulder through top performances on provincial level forced the selectors to include him in all formats of the game - Andile did not. 

Since provincial cricket for years were not on TV and I saw him only playing in ODI's and Y20I's,   I did not think much about him and still supported his inclusion in the latter formats of the game.   However,  I saw him playing for the Dolphins in two games and  now understand why he went off the radar.

In the period since the 2019 WC his performances deteriorated  and he did not live up to his early career standard,    He used to bowl at the same speed as Mulder does now - ie between 125 and 130 kph - Andile is now in the range 115 to 125 kph  and not as effective as he used to be.   Cannot see him playing in tests but hope he can get back to candidate for selection in the other yeo formats of the game,             

  


Jan 13, 2021, 07:32

FD

I know that you did not support Andile's selection and just gave  further particulars as tis the issues mentioned by you.    The question marks were intended for Dave.    

Jan 13, 2021, 15:09

Mike wake up I’m talking Andile vs Mulder as bats at international level which includes tests and ODI’s, not bowling.

At international level Andile has a better batting record than Mulder and that’s a fact

Mulder has mostly failed with the bat at international level

Jan 13, 2021, 15:51

Dave you wrote that Andile should  replace Mulder in the test side and that is what I responded to,  He was a bad failure in the few tests he played in and his provincial reocrd compared to Mulder is very poor indeed/

I said that Andole  looked good in ODI's and T20I's  initially and nobody in his right mind would argue about that,    However, over the last two years his performances both in internationals and  especially on provincial level  deteriorated and he did nothing to get selected  to shorter version games.   Why did it happen after an excellent start to his career I do not know.   It seemed as of  be physical = he picked u a lot of weight since 2019 and that could potentially have had a   detrimental effect on his bowling especially.  But that is a guess on  my part - what is clear he is not the player he when be when first  hit the scene, 

Mulder on the other hand had a relatively poor start to his international career  and went off for a long injury break,  He came back firing - so much so  that he forced the selectors to select him - his provincial record was phenomenal - that of Andile was exactly the opposite/    

If Andile maintained his performances we got used to initially - he would obviously been in the squad still -  but he did not and that is where the problem is.     Boucher is a great admirer of Mulder and that is a further reason why the international future of Andile looks  bleak.

By the way I detest the Meyer idea of reputation selection and that is why one has to look at present performances and players should be selected only if their present record  justifies selection    So lets wait and see what happens when the T20 side is announced,     Andile only qualifies for selection as an all-rounder 0 as a better there much better batsmen than him around.    Mulder is an all-rounder personified.                     


Jan 13, 2021, 16:28

I’m not stupid enough to define Andile as a test player based on how many tests has he played? - all of 4

Mulder in his test career to date has equally done stuff all with the bat

So in order fir me to judge them right now at international level I have to look at their ODI contributions with the bat, where Andile not only has double the average Mulder has he has actually also won us some ODI’s with the bat which shows he has BMT

I don’t give a flying fuck what you have to say on the matter. I’m telling you that in MY opinion not yours or anyone else’s, Andile is the better bat at international level right now.

Mulder needs to prove me wrong for to date he has mostly been a failure as a bat at international level.

His 36 in the test against the useless SL side tells me nothing, hell Maharaja scored far more runs than him.

As for bowling - of what I have seen from both of them, there is not much in it. I’d give Mulder the slight edge at this stage. Neither are going to set the world alight and both are just handy 5th bowlers in the side.

So given these facts - I’d select Andile ahead of Mulder in tests right now or I’d rotate them and see who comes out tops

Hope that help but I trust it won’t as it’s beyond your comprehension

It’s this simple Mulder has a test average of 14, Andile a test average of 9

Mulder an ODI average of 14, Andile an ODI average of 28

Conclusion - Andile is the better bat on record - FACT

Jan 13, 2021, 17:32

Dave 

I would be happy if Andile gets elected and prove  that he is still the [layer he was two years ago.  For some reason or another the selectors did not pick him since the 1999 CWC  and the last two games did no enhance his clams at all.  

I o not think that he will go to Pakistan as part of the  T20I squad and if the situation perisst e will bit see anything on the international scene again, 

Where I do differ from you is Andile is not  specialist batssman and  of he is not bowlong he will not make the squad,        

Jan 13, 2021, 17:32

Dave 

I would be happy if Andile gets selected and prove  that he is still the player he was two years ago.  For some reason or another the selectors did not pick him since the 1999 CWC  and the last two games did not enhance his clams at all.  

I do not think that he will go to Pakistan as part of the  T20I squad and if the situation prevail we will  not see anything from him on the international scene again, 

Where I do differ from you is Andile is not  specialist batssman and  if he is not bowling he will not make the squad/        

Jan 13, 2021, 20:15

Our utterly useless selectors are certainly not the measure of who is good and who is not. The fact that they keep selecting the utterly useless Pretorious ahead of Andile says it all.

Andile is 24 so hardly will have suddenly lost his ability to play

Andile and Mulder should be our squad all rounders for tests and ODI’s

Jan 13, 2021, 20:59

Hope it happens Dave. I know the Selectors are total idiots,   But will it happen - I am no sur about it at all.    Boucher praised Mulder in an interview and he is the one who ultimately decide as to who would play,     Matter off act Boucher spoke about moving  Mulder higher up in the batting order and that could still happen., because Boucher apaprently regard him as a batting all-rounder  of that happens  it is likely that he would select De Swardt.at 7.   

The ODI batters will have an awesome and hard-hitting line up with Markham and Roelofsen opening - with De Kock at 3,  Van Tonder at 4,  Mulder at 5, Verrreinne at 6, De Swardt at 7  followed by the bowlers;

That line-up will be respected by other teams and there will not be another disaster like there was in 2019. 

The test side will look somewhat different.             

    

Jan 13, 2021, 21:55

Why would he move Mulder up the order when he averages 14 in test matches

To be honest Boucher has yet to impress me

I’m starting to think he might have been a great player and fighter but is pretty shit at selecting a side or squad as I can’t begin to believe he has absolutely no say in the selection

 
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