Second test against the Windies

Forum » Cricket » Second test against the Windies

Jun 18, 2021, 16:38

Same team as played in the in the 1st Test.


Markram out for a duck in the first over bowled by the Windies.   Bad start,      

Jun 18, 2021, 18:10

SA now 37/3   = Petersen out for 7 runs and  Van der Duseen for 4.   

Jun 18, 2021, 21:28

Well this is more like the Proteas performance thus far.

Was the first test just a dream for all us Saffers?

Jun 18, 2021, 22:01

Hold your horses...we've got this.:D

Jun 19, 2021, 09:58

218-5...Thanks to a hard worked for 77 by Elgar and Quintie going well at 59...Verrynne's 27 was crucial too...we'll know how good or bad it was when the Windies have batted.

Jun 19, 2021, 16:26

Elgar is much derided. But when the going gets rough he is often the only performer. De Ock looking good at 6, at least against the Windies. Verrynne not living up to the hype.

Jun 19, 2021, 18:02

There must have been 60 balls that went passed his bat edge of his bat within a centimeter,  and he made  77 times from 237 balls/    The  much more maligned  De Kock is still batting and has now 87 rims from - 10 runs more facing 98 balls less.   He is  totally unreliable of course.          

Jun 19, 2021, 18:04

There must have been 60 balls that went passed his bat edge of his bat within a centimeter,  and he made  77 times from 237 balls/    The  much more maligned  De Kock is still batting and has now 87  - 10 runs more facing 98 balls less.   He is  totally unreliable of course.          

Jun 19, 2021, 18:09

’He made 77 from 237 balls’….says Pervert …..revealing yet again his total ignorance on matters cricket.

Jun 19, 2021, 19:25

Do you know anything at all about cricket, - dimness,?    By the way according to you there should be an enquiry why your suggestion that Klaasen must replace De Kock and that was not followed up by SAC,    After all years ago you claimed   you  see things in sport that other experts fail to see.           

Jun 19, 2021, 21:43

Yes unlike you, I played the game.

Jun 20, 2021, 02:12

When did that miracle happen?     For which club did you play?   Stop polluting the Board with your BS.   

    

Jun 20, 2021, 10:07

The Windies need to be bumped down a Tier.

...or perhaps not. Everyone needs a punching bag sometimes, like SA do right now.

Jun 20, 2021, 11:19

Yes Plum, a short tour of the Islands is probably just what the doctor ordered for this young team. I like the balance of the current team...if we can build a bit from here, who knows? Elgar and vd Dussen won't be there for much longer, but hopefully long enough to guide the youngsters into a place of confidence.

Jun 20, 2021, 20:46

It appears that the selectors have the confidence in their selections but the players selected don`t have any confidence in their ability to deliver the performance required at test cricket..

Markram faces six balls in two innings as an opener for a combined total of four runs which must have come of a lucky edge.

He has been a total disaster for SA at international level.

Petersen and Verreynne  received 108 deliveries for a combined total of  33 runs. Where do these two guys play their local cricket in SA.

Appears to be Prieska and Poffadder!

Just think of this the SACB had the cheek to ask de Villers to make himself available for selection with these players. No wonder he declined....would you have made yourself available if you were in his shoes.

A total disgrace to SA cricket and all the hard work and efforts of bygone players and results.

Sign of the times in RSA I guess.

Jun 21, 2021, 03:07

Classical Ock…two strong knocks and then a duck. Six is the right place for him and he will score some runs for you if the ball isn’t moving. But not if the pressure is on. 

I’m not sure if Verrynne will score runs against the Southern Stars. Who was it who demanded the head of the coach if he didn’t select this dud?

Jun 21, 2021, 08:41

Better than  2 dud scores and a good one by  Elgar with an average of  29 runs scored in 3 innings  as against an average of  118,5 runs in three innings by De Kock,   What a  raving  piss brain we have here on site.    

         

Jun 21, 2021, 12:43

Question.....should Verrynne be dropped from the squad?

Jun 21, 2021, 13:52

If you take the Kallis example who had no scores higher than 15 runs in his first 10 tests the answer is NO,   He must get further tests in other pitch conditions to determine whether he should be retained or not.   None of the other batsmen  bar De Kock were really roaring successes in the West Indies anyway.

We will have to wait and see what  the braindead selectors do though,       

Jun 21, 2021, 17:38

Now we have to persevere with Verrynne because he was finally selected? I say we were right not selecting the dud.


As for your lies…..Kallis had a score of 61 in Rawalpindi against Pakistan and a score of 101 against Australia in Melbourne …..all in his first 10 tests.

You lie and you trust nobody will figure it out, because that’s how it went down in the Provincial Administration. Stop the lying you disgusting Old Tart.

Jun 21, 2021, 18:29

"Now we have to persevere with Verrynne because he was finally selected? I say we were right not selecting the dud."


Wow, Moz, that's a bit premature...calling the kid a dud after 2 tests? I'd say his first class record is good enough to give him a few more opportunities...it's not like Bavuma is sitting on a stack of runs to force back his spot in the side.

Jun 21, 2021, 18:57

Piss brain

Kallis started his test career against England on 1995 and the matches  you refer to was not in  his first 10 tests  for SA,    

His first Test appearance was on 14–18 December 1995 against England in Durban, but he struggled with the bat in his first few matches. Kallis made his World Cup debut in  1996 in Pakistan but did not have much opportunity to excel.[22] His breakthrough came in 1997, with 61 against Pakistan, and then two matches later, he salvaged a draw for South Africa with a fighting century against Australia at the Melbourne Cricket Ground.[23]     

The Pakistani test and the Menbourne  one  was in fact two years after he started playing test cricket om SA,   When did your brain become disfinctiona?     

Jun 21, 2021, 20:08

Liar…..dishonest prick…..here are his first 10 tests straight from ESPN cricket stats guru

Bat Av100WktsBBIBowl Av5CtStAve Diff
overall1995-20131661328922455.37452926/5432.655200022.71Profile
Match by match list
1-1--00EnglandDurban14 Dec 1995Test # 1318
7DNB70210EnglandCape Town2 Jan 1996Test # 1321
6394515400AustraliaJohannesburg28 Feb 1997Test # 1356
02244700AustraliaPort Elizabeth14 Mar 1997Test # 1360
2DNB203300AustraliaCenturion21 Mar 1997Test # 1362
61-6123600PakistanRawalpindi6 Oct 1997Test # 1380
151011160500AustraliaMelbourne26 Dec 1997Test # 1392
16456103000AustraliaSydney2 Jan 1998Test # 1393
15153026510AustraliaAdelaide30 Jan 1998Test # 1397
15DNB1525800PakistanJohannesburg14 Feb 1998Test # 1400

Jun 21, 2021, 20:09

Apologize…no don’t apologize take the deep dive like the coward you are.

Jun 21, 2021, 21:04

Well a win is a win I guess.

Rabada was excellent in his opening spell this morning, his two early wickets set the WI up for defeat.

That Dolphins spinner  took a HATRIC and deserved it with his stats for this test.....excellent bowling M.

But two tests up against perhaps the weakest West Indies side ever proves nothing except it was a training tour for some SA players to perhaps build some confidence.

The batting performance from some of the more experienced players demonstrates that they are out of their league at test level.

Fragile batting line up at best with Markram's failure at opening once more placing enormous pressure on the newer members who follow him at bat and does not allow them to settle in and perform as they are perhaps capable of with the bat.  

But considering everything I suppose the SACB will be thrilled with the two wins.

Jun 21, 2021, 21:13

You are indeed a dishonest and stinking fart - Kallis played in all the tests  against  England  in 1995\96 and  against  other countries as well later in 1996 as well,    Cjeck whether Ka;;os was ever dropped from the team in 1996.     Even Wikipedia said he was disappointing  in his initial tests.    Leaving out the 1996 and  leaving out the December-Januiary tests in 1996\97 is a joke in  bad taste as well.   Try again  please, and try and be honest for a change,.        

Jun 21, 2021, 22:18

Match Date:30th November, 1995Series Batting & Bowling Analysis
Venue:Wanderers Stadium, Johannesburg
Match Conditions:Day MatchPartnerships
Toss:England
Result:Match drawn
Players of Match:Michael Atherton, Jack Russell
Video Clips:View video clips for this Match

South Africa 1st InningsRBF4s6sSR     % of Total
Andrew Hudsonc Stewart b Cork 0 27 0 00.00
Gary Kirstenc †Russell b Malcolm 110 241 16 045.64 33.13%
Hansie Cronje*c †Russell b Cork 35 51 6 068.63 10.54%
Daryll Cullinanc †Russell b Hick 69 128 10 053.91 20.78%
Jonty Rhodesc †Russell b Cork 5 14 0 035.71 1.51%
Brian McMillanlbw b Cork 35 70 7 050.00 10.54%
David Richardsonc †Russell b Malcolm 0 3 0 00.00
Shaun Pollockc Smith b Malcolm 33 45 0 073.33 9.94%
Clive Eksteenc †Russell b Cork 13 38 1 034.21 3.92%
Meyrick Pringlenot out 10 10 2 0100.00 3.01%
Allan Donaldb Malcolm 0 3 0 00.00
Extras(b 1, lb 14, w 2, nb 5)22 
TotalAll Out   (104.0 overs @ 3.19 rpo)332 
 

Jun 21, 2021, 22:19

te:27th November, 1996Series Batting & Bowling Analysis
Venue:Eden Gardens, Kolkata
Match Conditions:Day MatchPartnerships
Toss:South Africa
Result:South Africa won by 329 runs
Player of Match:Gary Kirsten
Video Clips:View video clips for this Match


South Africa 1st InningsRBF4s6sSR     % of Total
Andrew Hudsonb Prasad 146 244 24 059.84 34.11%
Gary Kirstenb Srinath 102 170 14 060.00 23.83%
Herschelle Gibbslbw b Prasad 31 112 7 027.68 7.24%
Daryll Cullinanlbw b Prasad 43 80 7 053.75 10.05%
Hansie Cronje*c †Mongia b Srinath 4 18 1 022.22 0.93%
Brian McMillanlbw b Prasad 0 2 0 00.00
David Richardsonnot out 36 60 4 060.00 8.41%
Lance Klusenerb Prasad 10 20 1 050.00 2.34%
Pat Symcoxb Prasad 13 21 0 161.90 3.04%
Allan Donaldc Laxman b Kumble 0 2 0 00.00
Paul Adamsb Kumble 4 8 0 050.00 0.93%
Extras(b 6, lb 24, nb 9)39 
TotalAll Out

Jun 21, 2021, 22:23

Same old stuff from the pervert…..big mouth lie, more lies covering the original lie, denial of facts eg the ESPN records, insults.

Low class stuff from an uneducated government employee.

Jun 22, 2021, 08:53

The fact is piss brain - you are the greatest BSter ever contributing to any site like this ever and it was pointed out that Kallis test career started on 18   December 1995 and you were asked to be HONEST about it and you as expected  FAILED  again.     

After 18 December 1995  Kallis played in every test  involving SA  and was never dropped frtom the team after that.    The 1sst test you quoted  above were in fact two years later,  = sdp ru ahain piss brain.            

Jun 22, 2021, 09:00

Same old debris  of lies and  misrepresentation.   - Kallis first test was on 18 DECEMBER  1995 nd you were asked to be HONEST nest about it for a change -  and as expected  you FAILED again by quoting  tests played BEFORE that date,      

Jun 22, 2021, 11:32

Verryenne is a "Dud"?

Why?

Jun 22, 2021, 12:16

Because Maaik is punting him.:):angel::D

Jun 22, 2021, 15:03

No…..Kallis’ test career started on Dec 14 1995, just as the ESPN table which I produced above shows. In his first 10 tests he registered  a 101 against Australia in Melbourne and a 61 against Pakistan in Rawalpindi. 


You blathered out ‘if you take the Kallis example who had no scores higher than 15 runs in his first 10 tests’….hoping nobody would fact check you.

I did ….you lied. Correct your lie.

Jun 22, 2021, 15:13

Ou Draad can’t you be honest for once on this Board and admit Ou Maaik is lying through his teeth.

Verrynne has been hopelessly hyped….his absence the reason we aren’t winning….evidence of an incompetent coaching staff. To me he looks marginal at best. 

Jun 22, 2021, 15:53

It must be terrible for the liar to be caught out time and time again for what he really is - a rotten idiot who oppose players purely because of prejudice.  He attacked De Kock for failure because he did not make runs in one of the three innings he batted in - but praise Elgar for making two flops in three innings.   Typical BS on his part.   

His attacks on De Kock started in 2013 and I think his attacks on Verreynne will follow the same route,   What a farce his  contributions are  anyway,    The prize in cricket was his insistence that De Kock must be replaced by Klaasen - typical farcical BS.      .   

Jun 22, 2021, 20:40

I thought not….you can’t take Bellville out the boy.

Jun 22, 2021, 22:58

Bellville out of whom?.    

Jun 23, 2021, 00:25

Mozart

It seems as if you've missed my question so let me ask you again.

You've dismissed Kyle Verryenne as a "Dud"? 

I'm curious as to your reason(s) why?

Jun 23, 2021, 00:51

Perhaps a bit harsh…..but for somebody who was so hyped his 39 runs in 3 innings against average test bowling is hardly encouraging. 

Jun 23, 2021, 02:34

Sorry, I'm not interested in whether he was hyped, so to be sure, is he a Dud? And if so would you drop him, think I've already asked this same question in my header post.

Jun 23, 2021, 06:15

‘Dropping him’ implies some sort of tenure. He was selected for two tests and flopped. Would I select him again? Probably not, frankly I think even Bavuma is more likely to score runs against top quality bowling.


This guy was supposed to be more than ready….over due. And now I read he is supposed to have time to settle. Makes no sense.

Jun 23, 2021, 06:44

So a Rookie flops and you'd drop him. Well here's a list of legends and their scores 

having played exactly the same amount of Tests(2) as Kyle Verryenne.

Steve Waugh

Innings List

Inns

Score

Overs

Conc

Wkts

Ct

St

Opposition

Ground

Start DateAscending

1

13

-

-

-

-

-

India

Melbourne

26 Dec 1985

Test # 1033

2

-

11.0

36

2

0

0

India

Melbourne

26 Dec 1985

Test # 1033

3

5

-

-

-

-

-

India

Melbourne

26 Dec 1985

Test # 1033

4

-

DNB

-

-

0

0

India

Melbourne

26 Dec 1985

Test # 1033

1

-

7.0

33

0

0

0

India

Sydney

2 Jan 1986

Test # 1034

2

8

-

-

-

-

-

India

Sydney

2 Jan 1986

Test # 1034

3

0

-

-

-

-

-

India

Sydney

2 Jan 1986

Test # 1034



Jun 23, 2021, 06:54

Matthew Hayden

 

Career averages

Span

Mat

Runs

HS

Bat Av

100

Wkts

BBI

Bowl Av

5

Ct

St

Ave Diff

overall

1994-2009

103

8625

380

50.73

30

0

-

-

0

128

0

-

Profile

 

Innings by innings list

Inns

Score

Overs

Conc

Wkts

Ct

St

Opposition

Ground

Start DateAscending

1

-

DNB

-

-

1

0

South Africa

Johannesburg

4 Mar 1994

Test # 1252

2

15

-

-

-

-

-

South Africa

Johannesburg

4 Mar 1994

Test # 1252

3

-

DNB

-

-

0

0

South Africa

Johannesburg

4 Mar 1994

Test # 1252

4

5

-

-

-

-

-

South Africa

Johannesburg

4 Mar 1994

Test # 1252

1

5

-

-

-

-

-

West Indies

Melbourne

26 Dec 1996

Test # 1346

2

-

DNB

-

-

0

0

West Indies

Melbourne

26 Dec 1996

Test # 1346

3

0

-

-

-

-

-

West Indies

Melbourne

26 Dec 1996

Test # 1346

4

-

DNB

-

-

2

0

West Indies

Melbourne

26 Dec 1996

Test # 1346





Jun 23, 2021, 07:49

Kagiso is coming on nicely.

Just wish he could spend a month with Hoggard or Akram. Preferably the former. 

All that's missing is just a few inches more movement on his inswinger. He doesn't strike with it enough despite have the perfect setup. 

Regardless, very happy with how he's leading the attack. Couldn't ask for more really.



Jun 23, 2021, 13:54

And here’s Barry Richards, another player who at 24 years of age was ‘overdue’…..in his 3rd test innings:

InningsRBF4s6sSR     % of Total
Barry Richardsb Freeman 140 164 20 185.37 22.51%
Trevor Goddardc Lawry b Gleeson 17 60 2 028.33 2.73%
Ali Bacher*b Connolly 9 18 0 050.00 1.45%
Graeme Pollockc & b Stackpole 274 401 43 068.33 44.05%
Eddie Barlowlbw b Freeman 1 13 0 07.69 0.16%
Brian Irvineb Gleeson 13 52 1 025.00 2.09%
Herbert Lancest †Taber b Gleeson 61 144 7 042.36 9.81%
Michael Procterc Connolly b Stackpole 32 48 4 066.67 5.14%
Dennis Gamsylbw b Connolly 7 19 0 036.84 1.13%
Peter Pollocknot out 36 71 4 050.70 5.79%
Athanasios Traicosnot out 5 33 0 015.15 0.80%

…….

The point is Verrynne was supposed to be more than ready….now suddenly he is a rookie.

Jun 23, 2021, 14:11

Selectors pick players who they believe will contribute immediately to the cause. Test cricket is not a nursery.  Boucher has been hesitant to pick Verrynne, obviously because he felt the kid wouldn’t  be a positive. 

He was right. Just accept that the kid was hopelessly over hyped and several posters on here were guilty of jumping onto that bandwagon.

Verrynne was never a ‘pick’ of mine….so ‘dropping him’ merely acknowledges that.

Have I answered your ‘header post’ question or is my position still confusing you?


Jun 23, 2021, 14:58

Mozart

Reasonable question about the following statement:-

"I thought not….you can’t take Bellville out the boy."

Who is the "boy" you are referring to in this case?

Jun 24, 2021, 00:39

Mozart, just another if you may, would you promote a young player with a First Class average of 50 or 60 to the national side?

Jun 24, 2021, 03:18

Would you select the National side solely based on statistics?

Jun 24, 2021, 03:33

Do you mean all of the national side? I'm not talking about selecting the national side, I'm questioning the criteria you use to promote a playerr from the domestic  to international level.

And again I ask, would you select a player who averages 50-60 in domestic First Class to the national test side?

Tx

Jun 24, 2021, 03:37

I’m trying to gently point out that if his average is dispositive we might as well select the whole team based on batting and bowling averages. 

Jun 24, 2021, 05:42

Mozart

Still no answer

Reasonable question about the following statement:-

"I thought not….you can’t take Bellville out the boy."

Who is the "boy" you are referring to in this case?

Just one further question -  how is performances in cricket to be evaluated if  bowliong and batting stats is to be ignored?        


Jun 24, 2021, 06:43

"I’m trying to gently point out that if his average is dispositive we might as well select the whole team based on batting and bowling averages."

And while you're failing to answer the question I'll gently ask again, what criteria  would you use to promote a promising young batsman?

If you can't or won't answer then feel free to ignore the question.

Jun 24, 2021, 09:14

"Ou Draad can’t you be honest for once on this Board and admit Ou Maaik is lying through his teeth.

Verrynne has been hopelessly hyped….his absence the reason we aren’t winning….evidence of an incompetent coaching staff. To me he looks marginal at best.


It's not about honesty, it's about perspective...

Jun 24, 2021, 15:16

The point is selecting young batsmen is not the primary objective…..having a team is. When you have an established team you swop out a player for a young challenger when you are convinced the balance of what he brings to the team exceeds that of the incumbent.

That includes experience in different conditions, all the skills including fielding …..and if you have an ounce of nous, you weigh the effect the change will have on the morale of the team.

Are you beginning to see the light? If not read about the struggle Barry Richards had to finally break through.

Jun 24, 2021, 15:23

Here is a simple test for you Draad sitter. Mike said above that Kallis never scored more than 15 runs in any innings in his first 10 tests. That’s not an opinion like my view of Verrynne’s press……it’s a simple verifiable fact.

I proved my point on this string by providing Kallis’ first 10 tests straight from ESPN stats guru. Mike responded by saying he played all the tests against England in 95/96….a palpable lie.

Do you have the basic integrity as a human being to call the lie? Or are you once again going to pretend that it’s ‘my truth’ or ‘his truth’.

Jun 24, 2021, 16:36

You are 100% right about the Century in his seventh test and Mike was 100% wrong about him not making a century in his first 10 tests. 

Maaik is confusing the facts and sometimes too stubborn to admit when he's wrong. That doesn't necessarily make him a deliberate liar. 

The crux of his argument was that Kallis had a slow start to his test career and that Verreynne shouldn't be dropped after just 2 tests(and should be given a bit more time before being discarded) ... being wrong about the exact amount of tests it took Kallis to make his mark in test cricket does not invalidate the whole argument...it makes him wrong about some of the facts, not about the conclusion...that still remains to be seen.

And I don't appreciate being accused of dishonesty.

Jun 24, 2021, 18:27

We should stop talking about Kallis.

It's like brining up a much loved dead relative. 

We all remember them, know how great they were but any mention of their name just makes you realise what a hole they left behind. 

Let's talk Andrew Hudson instead, please. 

Anyway Denny, Hayden...as complete as it gets, in any format. How damn good was that side when it's possible for a guy to average 50 and almost slip under the radar? 

I don't think I'll see a team like that again in my lifetime, in any sport. As good as Spain's footie side were for that spell some years back...And as dominant as the ABs have been, no team in the pro era touches Waugh's Australia.

Jun 24, 2021, 20:04

You weren’t accused of dishonesty….you were accused of fence sitting and not standing up for the truth. Having said that, I have no problem with your interpretation two posts up. If Mike had simply said Kallis had a slow start and so we should give Verrynne more time, I might have disagreed with the analogy, but I would have had no problem with somebody making it.

Jun 24, 2021, 20:07

Here’s another example:

Jun 24, 2021, 19:40

I never said Rublev was going to win the French Open    Think what I really wrote and maybe you would not make the above inaccurate statement,       

Jun 24, 2021, 20:41

""Ou Draad can’t you be honest for once on this Board"

If I can't be honest for once, then I'm always dishonest, not?

Moz, I'm being pedantic in some instances and lenient in others...I go with my gut and intuition and I agree with you way more often than I don't...in fact, I probably disagree with Mike much more than I do with you, but somehow it doesn't ever turn in to an issue... ever...

It's funny, I've very rarely in life, or on the internet met anyone I can't get along with or someone I really dislike, and you are definitely not one of the few exceptions...but life would be very boring if we all got along all of the time...I'm not really on the fence,  but I'm careful when navigating the grey areas...it's easy to differentiate between "black" and "white"...

Jun 24, 2021, 21:01

And there you guys go, mentioning Kallis again.

Have you no heart?

Haha

Jun 24, 2021, 21:21

I suppose I could have said….’can’t you be unambiguous for once’…it was said in that light. Anyway let’s forget it, but in the interests of your own prostate, don’t spend too much time of the fence.

Jun 24, 2021, 22:35

Mozart

Youi lied again,    Lets help you out, I said I want to lay a bet on Tsitsipas  and  Rublev being in the final,,   That dimness does not mean I was laying a bet on Rublev winning,   

OK - I admit I was wrong about Kallis  - his first two tests he was poor - bot I thought he was retained in the team after that series - but he was not,    What I did remember was he cane good  against Pakistan and Australia  near to two years later. So sorry I was wrong,

But what about answering my questions above?       

Jun 25, 2021, 08:18

"I suppose I could have said….’can’t you be unambiguous for once’…it was said in that light. Anyway let’s forget it, but in the interests of your own prostate, don’t spend too much time of the fence."

I know...you were right about Rooinek...it took me years to realize it...I really really believe you are wrong about Mike...IMO Mike's got a great deal of respect for you, and because of that your take on some of his favourite players frustrates him to the brink of insanity.:D

Jun 25, 2021, 08:46

Anyway, to be fair, Moz likely hasn't seen much of the guy.

He's a quality bat, Moz.

For what I've seen of the chap, he's very sharp, can play all around the park and is good at forcing poor lengths from bowlers. A bit like AB in that sense. 

In a year or two, my feeling is, he could be our top run scorer.

Jun 25, 2021, 09:40

SA Cricket Mag


Jun 25, 2021, 12:45

Plum

Have you seen how Mozart keep inventing things that never happened when it came to De Kock, Du Toit, De Allende and keep harping on Erasmus  he has seen a lot of.    Take the latest example - he attacked De Kock for having no runs in one innings  - but still had an average of 118,50 in the two tests against the Windies?    He does that type of thing constantly - when he writes something about incidents in games be assured the way he interpreted it is total BS,    

Mozart  has a believe that age does not matter when it comes to performances and that removal of older players is a sin.   In cricket he agrees with Boucher that older players "own" their positions in the team and there is no reason to replace them - the only replacements being necessary when the older players retire on their own decision.   When I said it is BS he nearly had a seizure,    

The reason why Mozart hates some players go back for many years .    He attacked  the selectors when they replaced Graeme  Smith   with De Kock in the ODI side in 2013.    If you study what happened in the 2013 ODI's against Pakistan you would soon find out that Smith was not performing anymore .     In 4 games Smith opened the batting they won one game and lost in  3 - with Smith failing in all 4 matches.   When he was replaced the situation with De Kock was 4 matches played - four matches won,     Since then the Mozart hate campaign has been ongoing.   

The attacks on Du Toit  and De Allende went back to the same year and every example where they according to him failed  was either a distortion or worse.   Insofar as Erasmus is concerned his attacks started the moment  Erasmus was appointed to replace Coetzee.   A false history of Erasmus' coaching record was always used,   The story  that Erasmus is a chicken running away from responsibility has been ongoing since   May 2018 and is totally based on lies and worse.

I think with the latest  Stander attack - where Mozart was dead wrong - Dave decided he lost interest on the site,    The fact is what he wrote he based on two newspaper reports,   When it was pointed out that  Stander could not play  for the Lions because he had no  contract with any professional club and hence could not play for the Lions - he said a contract extension could have been arranged - but there was no evidence that  Stander applied for an extension.   That is the type of BS  Dave got sick about,   

Now back to Verrreynne - the player had the same problem  as numerous other younger players have,    If somebody - especially Dave or myself - mentions a player  with potential - the Mozart attack on that player starts and will never stop.

    

                      

Jun 25, 2021, 19:05

For the record:


1.I do believe the Duds got far too much credit for our WC win.

2. De Kock is not reliable when the ball is moving and is better suited to number 6. As an opening bat in ODIs he will fail when things get tense, as he did in the WC.

3. I think Boucher is right with his incumbent philosophy…. Straueli destroyed the Boks with his  flavor of the day approach.

4 Our cricket has gone backwards since Smith, Kallis and Amla departed. All those calling for their heads were only calling for mediocrity. Managing these great players to contribute as long as possible should have been the objective, and probably was amongst wiser heads.

5 The Duds are limited players, Dud Toit a failed lock and a poor ball carrier, who was exploited in the Welsh try. Dud Allende somebody who through the WC never created anything for a partner. They performed a very limited role.

6 Erasmus produced one high quality test….the final against England where  there were some interesting technical innovations. Up to that point our WC was mediocre…losing to the ABs. And face it, the Poms were awful.

7 The Chicken Run was unnecessary and may have done some real damage…we will see in the Lions series, which we should theoretically walk because of our vastly superior pack.

8 Stander was available for selection. Every newspaper and expert like BOD reported  that. When he wasn’t selected neither Gatland nor Stander (or his camp) denied that he was available and wasn’t picked. Why wouldn’t they have simply corrected the record, it was in Stampkar’s interest to do so.

9 The problem is not that posters spot young players….it’s that they insist on these players being selected ahead of veterans. Verrynne is just the latest example. The coaches want to succeed and if they and their advisors are convinced these youngsters are going to make a difference….they’d pick ‘em. When they don’t they are almost always proven  right…..as was the case with Verrynne against WI.

Jun 25, 2021, 20:49

Moz, I  agree with almost everything you said above...I strongly believe that any replacement of incumbent players should be done mostly after a player proved himself better playing from the bench or replacing an injured player...players needs to be confident of their place in the team...competition is good, but willy-nilly changes confuses players and mess with their confidence. 

Jun 26, 2021, 09:07

Haha, Draad

The majority of what Moz says is based in logic. Something that's in darn short supply these days.

Aug is another board member I respect quite a bit. Guy always makes good points.

Pity that Rooi demands behaving like a tit cos he's a smart guy too. Unfortunately, it's not worth wading through miles of sewage to get to the good stuff. Haha

Jun 26, 2021, 14:31

Mozart  and his fake beliefs  cannot be trusteed to write any realistic assessment of player performances.    

Lets go from 1 to 10 now:-

1.    The  total BS dreamed up by Mozart - the World Player of the year and the top choice of De Allende as the best no  12  - according to him got too much credit for the WCC win.   His argument about hype is total baloney since the sel;ections were made by other than SA representatives.   

2.     De Kock before the age of 28 score more centuries  in ODI's than Smith scored in all his career.   The BS about moving balls started off with him noit being able to fast bowling - when that was proved to be untrue, the next one was he could not face spin bowling -- again proved to be a lie -  now it is  a moving ball.    The two players comparisons are as follows:-\

                         Batted         Average           Strike rate     Centuries

Smith                  194             37,98                  80,81               10

De Kock              123            44,74                  94,87                15

Did you ever see any criticism of Smith by  Mozart - no .   He started attacking De Kock the day he replaced  Smith as opening batsman in ODI's and it never stopped since then.  

3   Bouchjer came very near to destroying SA cricket by that incumbent policy  and reduced us to the number 7 ranking in the world..   That incumbent policy has been the source of most losses by the Proteas in every format of the game.    

4    Smith departed when he was a total under-performer and Amla was in the same situation.     Kallis left on his won accord when he retired  - he was way past his best when he left. 

5   Is back to normal BS - the fact is that a failed player according to  Mozart cannot be supported by the false reports he used on site to deal with his imagined failures.

6    Erasmus is admired world wide for saving SA Rugby from disaster,   Mozart attacked him before he even  started  working with the team.   On what did  he based the WC performances  as mediocre?     The team lost against the AB's since one of Mozart's favourite players missed an open-field tackle,    Anyway - the  AB 's admitted that  they would not have beaten the Springboks in the final.     But lets go back a bit further.    It was the first time ever that the same team that won  the Tri-Nations/Rugby Championship in a world cup year won the RWC.   Does that not mean anything?

7    A total lie as proven 50 times over.

8     A total lie as proven 50  times over.

9     There is no way that other  countries in the world select players on the basis Mozart advocates.    If an experienced player fails in other countries he is replaced.  In  SA he is not.   A team is build up over a period of years  and to keep  old players past their sell-by date is crazy.      There si no way rebuilding amongst the batting component is not necessary and the problem started  when Boucher selected 33 year-olds and older to replace 33 year-olds and older  in the team.    

By the way what basis should be used to find replacement players when older players needs to be replaced ?    Denny asked you and you  did not respond - spo please enlighten us all on that point.       

          

 


      

Jun 26, 2021, 18:05

Graham Rowntree the current  Munster forward coach said this on June 5th:


 Two Munster players are in the 2021 Lions squad: Conor Murray, the scrum-half, and Tadhg Beirne, who covers second row and blindside flanker. But not CJ Stander, who was edged out by Taulupe Faletau and Sam Simmonds at No?8. “I was surprised by that,” Rowntree says, before giving his expert overview.

Dave and the Old Tart want us to believe the Munster forwards coach didn’t know Stampkar, one of the players he is coaching, wasn’t available for the Lions Tour.

Complete nonsense of course…..game, set and match.

Jun 26, 2021, 18:40

How the hell are you so stupid.   No international  team will include a player that has no professional contract with either the national team or  in the UK and Ireland  with a club.    

Name one  player who without such a contract  played for in the case  UK Unions or Ireland please..     You ignore that basic requirement  in the case of Stander  and that is stupid,   You once claimed that Munster could have extended the contract - but there are  two parties to such  a  contract extension and Stander never applied  for or agreed to such an extension.  

Stupid argument by you - game said and match - total prejudiced idiot.    Just one more question - if Stander was as useless as you in your stupidity imagine - why did White try his utmost to get him to sign and play for the Bulls.?    White gave a precise reason why Stander refused /and  by your conduct in this case  you implied that White lied about the issue.  

Stander was an Oakdale High School pupil and he visits the school regularly - even when  he was in Ireland he made sure of one such visit a year,     I will know when  he visits  the school  and will have a chat with him on the myth you started and find out whether he really intended to play for the Lions on their SA tour and why he terminated his contract  with Munster to take affect on 30 June 2021,    Would be  interesting to hear what he himself says  about t your myth.            .  

Jun 26, 2021, 18:55

So Rowntree didn’t know Stampkar wasn’t available? Utter rubbish…if he was picked any contractual details could easily have been sorted. 

Rowntree himself was going to be accommodated by Munster:

“Munster were delighted for me to go, and arranged a secondment. But when it actually got down to laying out contracts with the chief executive, and the Lions confirmed there would be no travelling family, I just couldn’t go.

…..


Schplottttttttt!

Jun 26, 2021, 19:08

Are you a total idiot.    Munster could  not have  extended  the contract  without acceptance by Stander -  and he never applied for or agreed  to an extension.    Now onto Rowntree  - what the hell has that to do  with Stander?    Stupid argument that one.      

Jun 26, 2021, 20:19

Simple….Munster were obviously happy to make accomodations for Rowntree to tour..   just as they would have done for Stander. But as Rowntree acknowledges they surprised him by picking Faletau and Simmons instead of Stampkar. Because, as Gatland said, they wanted forwards who could run into space as opposed to running into tacklers.

Schplottttt you Old Tart… Stampkar’s own coach admits he was overlooked.

Jun 27, 2021, 04:15

Another stupid assumption without any foundation whatsoever.     Rowntree wanted to be in  the tour to SA and the quote you made was Stander ever mentioned?     Rowntree for family reasons in the end opted out of the tour.     There never was any indication that Stander wanted to be part of the tour,     Matter of fact he never indicated that he wanted to be on tour/    

As a matter of fact Stander said and did the exact opposite = he said he was not going to play any professional rugby after his contract with   Munster ended in June 2021.    White confirmed it and indicated clearly what happened - so now you clearly implied  that  White was lying about what happened.   

Keep it up -  you remain an idiotic prejudiced farce and it really is hilarious what your childish  conduct  in this case entails.                            

Jun 27, 2021, 06:15

Stander said he’d drive the bus to be part of the tour. 

The man who coached him every day until well after the team was selected said he was surprised Stampkar wasn’t selected…so for you to be right, Stamp kept the secret from him.

Every journalist said Stamp was considered but not selected.

Stamp said on Facebook that he was available till after the mid year tests which are traditionally the SH tests for NH teams.

Neither Stamp nor his camp denied the prevailing story in the press that Stamp was available but not selected.

..   .. 

Nothing  new from the Old Tart, it’s still game, set and match.

Jun 27, 2021, 07:06

When did Stander said that stupid?    I have never seen such a statement made by Stander to that effect  and wonder whether  it is another  issue you found out from nothing. 

The  midyear tests normally was in June and he NEVER said he was available for the Lions. series anyway,   A total diversion again from facts and that remains a fact.  

So is White also a liar?

Nothing new from the bloody idiotic liar.        

Jun 27, 2021, 15:02

The July Tests, also known as the summer Tests or mid-year Tests, are international rugby union matches played around the month of July each year. They include traditional summer tours by European nations to countries in the southern hemisphere, North America or Japan, as well as shorter international trips and one-off test matches. They follow the end of the domestic rugby season for northern hemisphere countries. In 2012, the International Rugby Board (IRB) introduced a three-weekend window in June during which players are required to be released by their clubs for international matches. From 2020 due to changes to the World Rugbyinternational calendar, the window will be moved to July.

Jun 27, 2021, 15:05


1 month ago

"CJ said he’d even drive the bus for them around South Africa, so he could be on tour"

"To me, he’s a legend."

The British & Irish Lions squad will be named on Thursday afternoon and could include a few players that would be returning to their homeland for the series. CJ Stander may not be finished his Test rugby career yet.

"I remember I spoke to him a couple of months ago, and he said he’d even drive the bus for them around South Africa so he could be on the tour. To me, he’s a legend. I worked with him, when he was a junior, at the Bulls. If there’s a player that deserves a send-off, it’s probably him."

Stander has already played his final game for Ireland, so it is either the Lions for a Test rugby farewell or that England win, back in March, to look back on fondly.

Do not be surprised, though, if Stander is not in the initial squad but called up at some stage. He will be back in South Africa this summer regardless, and his ability to play across the back-row could see him feature as a ready-to-rock replacement.


Jun 27, 2021, 15:52

Crushed!

Jun 27, 2021, 18:23

I cannot help you here - since your imagination  has taken over and you have no proof that Stander after terminating his contract his contract with Munster at the end of June 2021   could play any professional rugby and that includes the Lions tour in  July 2021 and that includes the Lions Tout..

Fact is that Stander himself  informed Jake White that it would have jeopardize a fund he contributed to and would pay him a pension for the rest of his life..    Then you  claim that Munster could extend the contract to cover the period pf the Lions tour - which would have been from their perspective fruitless expenditure since he would not play a single match for the club- but there is no evidence at all that Stander wanted such an extension.

You in your normal  way try and prove something which did not  exist and have no proof that it in fact was actually true.      But then it is normal for you to make wild statements on sire and that is why I cannot help you in this case as well..   The quote the above is also in the same vein.    If he did not qualify because of the lack of a professional contract whatever he does afterwards is his private business and has nothing to do with  playing professional rugby at all.  The problem with you has to do with petty hatred of some players and obviously also Erasmus  and because they prove you wrong constantly you dream up things to belittle them/     It make you look like a fool/   

          

Jun 27, 2021, 19:07

Hard for it to be my imagination when I’m directly  quoting rugby experts and people close to Stampkar…..crushed like the stupid government lackey you are.

Jun 27, 2021, 22:38

Since when is rugby journalists experts?      Also a strange contradiction as to believe experts,   You always disregard the opinions of experts when they differ from your idiotic approach - apparently created the idea that what journalists are your newly0crateed group of experts.

Sorry - but you are talking KAK.        

Jun 27, 2021, 22:38

By the way Klaasen  - the player you want to  replace De Kock , failed badly in both  T20I\s played thus far in the Windies.       

Jun 27, 2021, 22:38


Jun 27, 2021, 22:38


Jun 27, 2021, 23:06

It’s not an opinion you Old Tart. When a player says he’s available through the  mid year tests, it’s a fact. Clearly Stampkar was leaving the door open to play for the Lions…..Schplotttttttsky for the umpteenth  time.

Jun 28, 2021, 05:58

I don't know why a debate on cricket turns into a "debate" on rugby. 

I also don't know whether Kyle Verryenne is a Dud, neither does anyone else, time will tell, but what I do know is that if a 2 Test Rookie is dropped from a team then the world of cricket would sadly never have seen the likes of 2 Test failures like ....

Steve Waugh - 13/5/8/0

Matt Hayden - 15/5/5/0

and our own

Jacques Kallis - 1/7/6


Jun 28, 2021, 15:29

Oh gosh perhaps we should make a rule to prevent that. What punishment do you think is appropriate?

 
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