The Over 30 players Mozart support playing in Australia - failures the lot

Forum » Cricket » The Over 30 players Mozart support playing in Australia - failures the lot

Dec 26, 2022, 10:42

Mozart's hatred of what he called "SEUNTJIES" is notorious.   Every player under 30 is according to him a "seuntjie"  so lets see how the batsmen fared in Autsralia:

Player                             Age          Innings played           Total runs                Average Runs

Elgar                                36                   3                         31                          10,3

Erwee                              33                   3                          31                          10.3

Bavuma                           31                   3                          68                          22,3

De Bruin                          30                   1                          12                          12,0

Zondo                              32                   3                          38                          12,7

Verreynne                        24                   3                         116                          38,7

The only player he called a "seuntjie" was the one proving he was an international player - the rest was not.    

Dec 26, 2022, 16:39

Here we go again my ‘hatred’ of seuntjies. Nope I was wildly enthusiastic about Grahame Pollock at 18 and Barry Richards at 19. Verrynne is certainly competent with good hand/eye coordination….but where are the others. 

Ock has been a serial failure in big games, like WCs. Markram who was lionized before he even scored a run has drifted into mediocrity. Where are the others over the 8 years since you first agitated for Amla to be dropped.

The over 30 players you list above were never great players. Elgar scraps hard and has a decent test average….the rest are as bad as the seuntjies.


The point I was making is simple….great players are rare and can perform deep into their thirties….youngsters may look good, but the proof is in the pudding….and youngsters with fatal flaws, like Ock with his bat/pad gap struggle against the moving ball and on uneven pitches.

The point is simple… don’t discard great players before their time. Learn it!

Dec 26, 2022, 19:53


It does not have anything to do whether player are greats.   A really great player can see when he is not producing the goods anymore and that is when he retires on their own.   

However - that is not the point.   It is dishonest to praise players when it is clear they are not productive anymore and that serious consideration should be given to their replacement.  I will refer to two players in particular. in 20111 Graeme Smith did not produce at the CWC in India.   he then went off to Ireland and on his return he started off being poor during  the whole of 2012 and 2013.   At the end of 2013 there was a serious against India in the Gulf States.  There were five matches played  In the first ODI Smith opened the betting for the Proteas and his failure attributed to losing of the match.  He then had to go back to  SA for some reason or other.    De Kock replaced him and your screaming reach crescendo heights     be as it may the Proteas won the series 4-1 and De Kock scored his first ODI century.   

There were also 3 matches played in SA and Smith and Kallis was back in the team.  The Proteas lost the first 2 ODI's with Smith being a failure and Kallis made 50 runs after facing 90 balls - totally inadequate in that format of the game.   Shortly after that match Kallis decided to retire from International cricket.   Smith wanted to play in the third ODI - h was told by the section Committee and stormed out of the hotel and went home.   It ws indeed surprising when he announced his retirement.

Kallis was always a great in trest cricket - but not in the shorter versions of the game.   Smith started off like a house on fire and fizzlled out in the end.  In his career Smith made 8 centuries as an ODI player -  De Kock made 15 - his strike rate was much higher than Smith's.   Your attacks on De Kock started in 2014 and never stopped.

The problem in SA is political interference and De Kock ended up thoroughly the hell in with SA Cricket and he was sub-standard as a result,   De Kock decided never to play for SA again - and one cannot blame him for that,   However he is making millions playing club cricket world wide and remains a very expensive player to contract.    If he was the failure you scream about he would not get contracted.

Now let me give you  the Protea batsmen are a miserable lot.   In the case of the batsman there is none of the five failures with an average above 40  and some is 31.   That is not high enough to be rated as a successful test player.    The bad part is if you look at their rating on provincial level is much lower than then a long string of youngsters.  THAT IS WHY IN GENERAL THE PUBLIC THINK THE TEAM IS SHIT POOR.


Dec 27, 2022, 04:19

Yet de Kock failed in every WC. Even in the last WC if he produced the goods in line with his  reputation we would have at least been in the semis. Supposedly our best bat for the last four years he always chokes when the pressure is on..,because his technique is flawed.

Dec 27, 2022, 09:40

"......,because his technique is flawed."


How so?

Go on, tell us what's flawed with his technique that makes him fail in WCps.

This will be interesting.

Dec 27, 2022, 17:21

Pay attention Comrade..  it’s right there in the post above:

 The point I was making is simple….great players are rare and can perform deep into their thirties….youngsters may look good, but the proof is in the pudding….and youngsters with fatal flaws, like Ock with his bat/pad gap struggle against the moving ball and on uneven pitches.’

Ock doesn’t move his feet to the pitch of the ball and tends to throw the bat down the line. It works when the ball isn’t moving and he isn’t nervous.  But that yawning gap is always there and with a bit of movement it’s exposed.

And it tends to get worse when he’s nervous because his feet become even more planted, like at WCs where he is a serial failure, except when we are playing the minnows.

Cricket 101….but then you never played the game.

Dec 28, 2022, 05:21

Ock doesn’t move his feet to the pitch of the ball and tends to throw the bat down the line. It works when the ball isn’t moving and he isn’t nervous.  But that yawning gap is always there and with a bit of movement it’s exposed.

Utter hogwash. All batsmen struggle against swing whether they move their feet or not. I've seen many a technically correct batsman clean bowled between bat and pad. I'm not saying he's footwork is great, everyone knows he relies on hand/eye what....there's several who've had great cricketing careers eg Virender Sehwag (has constructed an extraordinary career with a relentless quest, and a genius, for boundary hitting. With minimal footwork but maximum intent, he has piled Test runs at a faster pace than anyone in the history of cricket.) Then there's our own Herschelle Gibbs, England's Chris Broad the list just goes on and on.

But heres' where your BS ends.......if he did leave a yawning gap then every half decent quick would exploit that flaw and there'd be "bowled" more often than caught or LBW next to his name.

 It's not. 

I've had a look at Quinton's early, middle and end of career stats across all formats and I've only struck one innings where he was clean bowled. Josh Hazelwood was the bowler but just before you wet your nappy Quinton was on 104 runs and Hazelwood took 6 wickets in that same innings. Meaning Quinton successfully negotiated Hazelwood's notorious swing on the way to making his ton.

And for a batsman who is supposedly technically flawed and leaves a yawning gap his career averages across all formats is not too shabby either. Dang those quicks must have been blind it's hard to believe they couldn't spot a yawning gap.


ODI - 45.6

T20 - 32.9

Boy, the Proteas right now can do with batsmen with that kinda flaw dontcha think.

Cricket 101….but then you never played the game.

Try Cricket 100 next time, it comes BS free.

Dec 28, 2022, 06:15

You mean like van der Dussen..

Tests 30.16

ODIs 69.31

T 20s  36.0 

Oh I forgot, Ock is a genius and Dussen is a journeyman. And Dussen’s advantage over Ock will be even more pronounced at WCs.

As for the gap, it results from Ock’s bat being thrown at the ball while his feet stay anchored. Check out how many times he has been caught behind as a consequence. 

Oh and he’s only been bowled once….are you sure?

Dec 28, 2022, 08:15


You said De Kock failed in every WC he played in - that ws a lie.  In the miserable 2019 WC De Kock scored the h ighest number of runs of any SA player and I would not call that a failure.   In that WC every batsman failed in every crucial match they played in and those included  Amla and Du Plessis.

I am not defending De Kock as a player - I said that anyone having to play for SA was under more political pressure than cricketing pressure and you are a fool not to realize that.  That is what drove De Kock under more pressure than anyone else.   When he refused to take the knee on the BLM issue all hell broke lose around him.   

Compared to the present failures in batting De Kock was a 100% better than the failures playing for the Proteas at present.   You have no idea what you are writing about in your decade long hate campaign against De Kock..        

Dec 28, 2022, 08:20

Typical.......thought we were talking your pet hate De Ock? How did van der Dussen get into this.....I know, don't tell me it's just your slimy way of diverting from the topic.

As for the gap, it results from Ock’s bat being thrown at the ball while his feet stay anchored.

Nyaaah Nyaaah Nyaaaah I know, we all know, we've heard about an imaginary gap so many, many, many times.......there's only one problem.....we need to see the evidence.

Provide proof......if as you say he leaves a "yawning gap" then the numbers being clean bowled should heavily outweigh being caught or being bowled LBW.

Oh and he’s only been bowled once….are you sure?

Uh-oh sliming again........I clearly didn;t say that.....this is what I've said...."I've had a look at Quinton's early, middle and end of career stats across all formats and I've only struck one innings where he was clean bowled."

There isn't mention of having looked at all of his innings across all formats. And again before you go shrieking lets be clear no batsman plays 81 tests only suffering one clean bowled.

Provide the stats which point to the flaw in his technique showing that he's been clean bowled far outweighs  any other forms of dismissal.

Dec 28, 2022, 16:15

Here you go. If a batsmen plays with his feet well away from the line you could reasonably expect caught behind, bowled through the gap and less lbw’s. That would be logical. We can’t get caught behind stats,  but here are the numbers for being bowled and lbw’s for de Kock and 5 contemporary bats,  also claimed at times, to be our best:

De Kock…bowled 24.7%….lbw 12.9%

Jacques Kallis….bowled 19.2%…lbw 16.7%

AB de Villiers…bowled  19.7%….lbw 13.3%

Hashim Amla….bowled 18.1%….lbw…17.1%

Aidan Markram….bowled 13.6%…lbw…22.0%

Graham Smith …bowled 16.1 % …..lbw….22.9%

Stunning proof that de Kock does indeed play well away from his pads. This from Howstat dismissals in test cricket. Look it up if you wish Quisling. Or perhaps it’s most economical for you to simply apologize.

Dec 28, 2022, 17:01

Just for interest I looked at a few other greats:

Kholi bowled 7.1%.. lbw 21.7%

Tendulkar bowled 18.2%…lbw 21.3

Warner bowled 14.4%…lbw 13.2%

..    …

A definitive stat would be bowled normalized (divided by) lbw’s. This yields the following batting flaw index:

Kholi 0.46

Markram 0.62

Smith 0.70

Tendulkar 0.85

Amla 1.06

Warner 1.09


AB de Villiers 1.48

Quintin de Kock 1.91

Clearly de Kock is in a class of his own in terms of his fundamental batting flaw. Case closed.

Dec 28, 2022, 17:53

Most bats have flaws look no further than Steve Smith

de Kock had his but the lad was a class act

Easily the best wicket bat SA has ever produced and one of the best ever in the game

Brilliant cricketer

His test average of 39 would have been higher had he batted higher up, often batted with the tail having to throw caution to the wind

ODI average of 45 opening the batting speaks for itself

A class act

Dec 28, 2022, 18:01

Ah Steve Smith bowled 19.1%, lbw 17.0%. No apparent gap issues there. No top batsmen comes close to de Kock, bowled 25% of the time.It’s his flaw of separating bat and pad. He compensated with a very good eye and timing….but it only worked when there was little movement and he wasn’t under pressure.

Dec 28, 2022, 18:05

Wrong there were plenty of matches where he succeeded under pressure saving SA in the process

Steve Smith is massively flawed but a huge batting success. As was Amla as is Labascagne

de Kock like Gilchrest, produced the goods far more than they failed playing attacking cricket

Dec 28, 2022, 18:16

Sure….start with the latest WC.

Dec 28, 2022, 18:31

The weirdest illogic I have ever seen.   Saying D e Kock was a failutre in  the 2019 WC are either a fools way of looking at what happened or a liar writing BS on site.     

Dec 28, 2022, 19:50

Yes sure I know for a fact de Kock has saved our arses or won us games

The lad was pure class and an absolute pleasure to watch

Up there with watching Amla, Kallis and AB

Dec 28, 2022, 20:16

The split between Test and short format teams is a problem.

Sure one could bring in a guy like Miller for the shorter format but the core of your batting lineup should be able to play all formats.

Else you end up in a situation where a guy goes six months or more between playing international cricket.

If QDK doesn’t wanna play tests, cool, let KV play all three formats. Markram is still decent but should be batting at 5 or 6 in tests and higher up the order in the shorter format.

Brevis should be playing all three formats. There is no need to pigeon-hole one of our best young bats into the T20 format.

Rickleton and Malan should also be there and playing all three.

The hilarious part is that the only top order batter that plays all formats for us is Bavuma…yeah, the guy with one test 100 to his name.

Dec 28, 2022, 22:21

So the 2019 WC, the one Clever singles out as a great de Kock performance:

23--20BangladeshThe Oval2 Jun 2019ODI # 4147
10--20IndiaSouthampton5 Jun 2019ODI # 4150
17*----West IndiesSouthampton10 Jun 2019ODI # 4156
68--00AfghanistanCardiff15 Jun 2019ODI # 4160
5--20New ZealandBirmingham19 Jun 2019ODI # 4165
47--10PakistanLord's23 Jun 2019ODI # 4171
15--00Sri LankaChester-le-Street28 Jun 2019ODI # 4176
52--10AustraliaManchester6 Jul 2019ODI # 4188

Dec 28, 2022, 22:29

So what we see here is 

1 Mediocrity against the weak Bangladesh attack

2 Failure against India

3 Failure against the West Indies….which now puts us in danger of not making the knockouts

4 A score against Afghanistan where there was no pressure because the Afghan total was so low.

5 Abysmal failure against NZ…and we are out of the knockouts

6 A score against Oz where we were out and there was zero pressure.

Mediocrity, failure, failure, irrelevant,  failure, irrelevant. And that is supposed to be success. He let the team down when it counted as he always does.

Why, because as I proved  above his technique leads to being bowled far more than other top bats.

Case closed.

Dec 29, 2022, 09:56


You are talking Kak as per normal - I referred to the fact that the top scorer of the SA side was De Kock.   THAT FACT REMAINS.   You screaam about De Kock - the real batting failure in that WC was Amla - Compare his total runs scored with De Kock and also look at his strike rate - abysmally poor.  

By the way this thread is about the PRESENT dismal batting performances and your support of Elgar and Van der Dussen in the past.   you are too stoopid from a cricket perspective to look at the present scenario of De Kock - just as a diversion to escape from your past statements.   You sht all over Verreynne as well - while you want him in the team as against Verreynne as well,   .       

Dec 29, 2022, 10:16

So lets get awaqy from the diversion and back to the issue dealt with originally.   I have updated the scedule after the econd innings of the DISMAL Proteas:-

Player                             Age          Innings played           Total runs                Average Runs

Elgar                                36                   4                          31                            9.0

Erwee                              33                   4                          52                          13.0

Bavuma                           31                   4                       133                          33.3

De Bruin                          30                   2                          40                          20,0

Zondo                              32                   4                          31                          7,78       

Verreynne                        24                   4                        149                         37.2

Dec 29, 2022, 11:31

Lol Ou Dentsie hasn't the foggiest about cricket.

QDK is known for not moving his feet. It's literally his batting style and the very first thing anyone with a quarter of a cricketing brain would notice. 

And if you don't move your feet, you are predominantly vulnerable to being bowled through the gate. 

But it's fine because if you have a good eye and, on occasion, take the game away from teams. 

The problem with QDK is that he failed too many times in big games. We have been spoiled really because we would never expect the same from Boucher or Richardson, since they were keeping batters as opposed to QDK who is a batting keeper with flawless keeping skills.

QDK should never have been promoted up the order in the shorter format. Perhaps in T20 there is an argument to be made for him opening but overall he should be coming in at six and with a full license. 

But here's probably the dumbest statement yet made on this thread...

"Utter hogwash. All batsmen struggle against swing whether they move their feet or not."

Foot movement doesn't eradicate the danger of swing simply helps to combat it. Therefore, if you don;t move your feet you are weaker against swing. How is this not obvious? By your reasoning, nobody should ever wear a seatbelt again since people have died despite being strapped in.

Dave, Amla was not at all technically deficient. He had bat speed that was on par with Lara and would move his feet very well. What you perceived as technical deficiency was simply his ability to move towards and play balls that were wider than most batters would be comfortable with. It was what made it so challenging to bowl to him...he would leave well and then suddenly punish you from nowhere off of a ball that you thought was wide enough that he would leave. Meaning that even when the bowler's radar was in, they never felt as though there were safe balls. Amla was the perfect combination of playing late with ridiculous bat speed.

Watch this innings from relatively early in his career, now armed with what i said above...and tell me again that he was technically flawed. You guys are funny.

Just FYI, Amal's "wrists" was actually Amla's eye. What do I mean? Well, wristy play is a product of eye, not wrists. Let me know if you ever figure out what that means.

Dec 29, 2022, 15:29

Ah yeah Amla had a perfect technique - fuck me Fruitloop stick to ballet or something

Rugby and cricket are not strengths of yours

Dec 29, 2022, 15:35

Great, tell me about the failings of Amla’s technique.

Let’s hear it…

Dec 29, 2022, 15:58

It is well know that his step back in his set up made him vulnerable to a ball pitched up early on

To his credit he was not defined by that and more than often produced the goods

Hope that helps idiot?

Dec 29, 2022, 17:36


Initially, his trigger movement was backward.

But he sorted that out. And it's actually kinda funny because what he became know for was his double movement - a small step back and then a step forward to meet the ball. see any replays for proof.

He didnt die with his defficiency, he fixed it.

Making comparing Amla to QDK silly, since QDK hasn't ever really sorted his problem out.

Dec 29, 2022, 18:14

Bullshit and comparing de Kock, Amla, Steve Smith, Root, Labascagne, Chanderpaul etc is perfectly credible as they are all in the same category in terms of their impact and status in the game

Amla never brought his front leg forward in his set up, unlike AB who did

Dec 29, 2022, 20:25

Lol ou Saffex.

Here is Hussain showing you the transition.

In the first clip, Amla is way back in his crease with a more open stance and his shoulders pointing at mid-on. 

In the later clips, he makes two movements, back and then forward to meet the ball. Exactly as I said. 

Where is the bullshit? Are my eyes lying to me again?

Dec 29, 2022, 21:09

Poor old Comrade September has taken a very deep dive after he was totally exposed….by the SCIENCE, a word these woke people love so much. And of course the whole exposition totally eluded Clever, so he has no idea he has been routed.

Dec 29, 2022, 21:31

Yes complete bullshit - the old footage is a short pitched ball while the later is more pitched up and there is very little forward movement by Amla

Technically correct would have his weight on the front foot and more of the front foot to the ball

It worked for Hash but was not technically correct

Happy to be of service. It’s obvious you have never played the game

Dec 29, 2022, 22:08


So now Amla is tailoring his trigger movement to what the bowler is going to bowl…because he’s psychic i guess.

I know that you’re a tad on the slow side, Saffex. How about you be a good boy and pause the clips at the moment of release.

…then note the difference in Amla’s position.

Or would you like me to do it an embarrass you?

Please tell me that you know what a trigger movement is? Because based on your response i’m thinking you might not know.

Dec 29, 2022, 22:56

As I said Fruitloop there is no pronounced forward movement but come on be my guest and show me as you have no fucking idea what you are talking about

As for the trigger movement well no, I’ve never heard of that, as I’m far tooooo stupid!!!!

Now do me a favour and proceed with embarrassing yourself a little more

A serious question - have you ever played cricket???

Dec 29, 2022, 23:55

So we simply resorting to lies now are we?

Here is what you said…

“It is well know that his step back in his set up made him vulnerable to a ball pitched up early on”

Here is a Cricinfo article that describes exactly the movement, as I said.

“ Amla is indeed one of the modern greats. ?Like most South African batsmen he has a back and across movement followed by a step forward as a trigger movement to set himself up before the ball is bowled.“

So now we have my comments, footage and cricket writers writing about the same thing…but let me guess, everybody else is a “stupid cunt” or an “ignorant prick”, right?

As i said, tosser, earlier in his career he got caught on his crease but he sorted that out by adding a second part to his trigger movement.

Is that enough evidence for you or would you like me to find footage of Amla himself talking about the adjustment he made?

…because i bet i can.

PS your ridiculous comment about him not transferring his weight actually beats Dentsie’s stupid comment above.

Hashim Amla, one the of greatest bats to ever have played the game, didn’t transfer his weight when playing a drive.

Haha you tit!!!

Dec 30, 2022, 00:29

Saffex being schooled on multiple sports is pretty funny! :D

Dec 30, 2022, 00:30

What have I lied about Fruitloop?

You seem a little delusional

Now instead of beating around the bush just fucking man up and provide the evidence to counter my take

As I said it’s clear you know fuck all about cricket and it’s obvious you have never played the game

Man up wet blanket and entertain me with your assertions

Dec 30, 2022, 02:38

Neither De Kock nor Amla is involved in the present disaster the Proteas have become, and that is what this thread is about.    Why the diversion in this case?         

Dec 30, 2022, 07:41

“Now instead of beating around the bush just fucking man up and provide the evidence to counter my take”




Dec 30, 2022, 08:13

You seem a little are delusional.

And it's not only in cricket, the poor doped head can't help himself, plants his 5'3" on a soapbox and lectures to an imaginary audience. We've heard him tell us he was a coach in England but we haven't been told the level, a club, whatever .......sounds like BS.

But here's the lead balloon, " They don't come more World Class than that"......he said of a group of players...some of them had no international exposure and one in particular.....Reeza Hendicks.....has never played Test cricket, is outside the top 100 in ODI  and has a ranking of 21 in T20 at age 34.

Some "coach" Bwhahahahahaha

Still the best laugh in 2022

Dec 30, 2022, 08:35

Awe, Dentsie…

Still butt hurt that my Reeza call was the best on this site to date while unfortunately for you the one you decided to take issue with?

Tell me again, what are Hendricks’ averages for the Proteas in T20 and ODI since i selected him?

Nobody can help you heal the wounds that you inflict on yourself, my lady.

Dec 30, 2022, 08:47

Plum....I'll ask this nicely. 

Tell me, how can a player be "World Class" when he only has a world ranking in one format of the game that being T20 and that ranking is by the proverbial mile a distant 21?

No ducking or nose diving.....the floor as your Master says is yours.

Dec 30, 2022, 08:52

Dentsie, I’ll ask nicely…

Post Reeza’s averages for the Proteas since i picked him…and that will answer your own question.

Dec 30, 2022, 09:38

So you're telling us that his career took off once you picked him on this site huh?

Just to be clear....he came good 8 years after he started his international career at age 33 just because you picked him....yes?

Ding ......And a world ranking of a distant 21 in one format of the game is "world class"?

Dec 30, 2022, 09:41

Ah, so you don’t wanna post his averages since i selected him?

Pretty telling.


Dec 30, 2022, 09:45

Birth date: August 14, 1989
Birth place: Kimberley
Bats/Bowls: Right/Right
Bowling style: Medium
Teams played forSouth Africa

YearInningsRunsBallsOutsAvgSRHS501004s6sDot %

Dec 30, 2022, 09:58

OCT 11, 2022 | DELHI

India won the match
JN Malan
  Mohammed Siraj
Q de Kock
  Washington Sundar
RR Hendricks
  Mohammed Siraj
AK Markram
  Shahbaz Ahmed
H Klaasen
  Shahbaz Ahmed
DA Miller
  Washington Sundar
AL Phehlukwayo
  Kuldeep Yadav
M Jansen
  Kuldeep Yadav
BC Fortuin
  Kuldeep Yadav
A Nortje
  Kuldeep Yadav
L Ngidi*060.0000.000

Dec 30, 2022, 12:31

  1. Reeza Hendricks
    Career Batting Stats
    Right Handed Batsman
    First Class14225517805633.841525852.79168*3816
    List A17917111612138.25699287.541813316

Dec 30, 2022, 13:42

Hendricks world class bwhaaaahaaaa

Nice one Fruitloop

You were a coach were you? In England?

Well so was I, I have a mighty level 1 coaching certificate and coached the mighty Harwich & Dovercourt u13’s a good 15 years ago

I’m no cricket coach but I could play the game - only stopped playing 3 or 4 years ago only because my weekends are no longer free

I recall posting a link on here with my seasons average one season - it was a post to the late Vlagman. Can’t remember what the average was but it was over 50. Used to open the batting often with my son who played first team and age group cricket for his school on a Saturday and then for us on a Sunday. I used to bowl mean offies as well. We had a few father/son combo’s in our side. Was an awesome few seasons we had doing that.

We had the odd SA pro out playing at the club - Dewald Botha who played for Boland and Chetti who played for the Dolphins I think and SA A

I miss playing - keep threatening to make a comeback

Dec 30, 2022, 16:12

Will always have plenty of respect for the way English clubs and leagues handle themselves and keep the game running.

Mostly batted at 3 but sometimes at 4 and had the habit of catching a suntan while i waited to bat. Camping chair, pads on and shirt off.

Got plenty of good memories of playing and coaching in England.

One thing though, they don’t have that hard edge and tend to shield younger players a bit too much for my liking. What i didn’t like was that it carried over into the senior players where guys would want to start crying when you pointed out their mistakes or made a suggestion as simple as needing to apply the same shot selection in the nets as they would in a game where they were the last recognised batter left.

I think every Saffa that ever played in the UK remembers the first time they applauded a dropped catch only to realise that the English never cheer when the opposition drop a catch. In SA we’ll cheer the drop and you won’t stop hearing about it for the rest of the game…especially when you come in to bat.

Dec 30, 2022, 16:52

Can’t say I’ve had the same experience playing here - the Poms have given back as much as I have thrown at them.

If a bowler ever chirped me boy I’d want to punch the guy. But it did me little favours especially if the bowler had some good pace behind him.

We I bowled my team mates used to laugh at me as to how aggressive I got. One would swear I had pace in my armoury to intimidate the bat but it never stopped me. I guess it had plenty to do with my size and all the rugby I had played

I always wanted to fight the world on a rugby field and pretty much was the same on a cricket field

I recall once an opposition player threatened to leave the match during out heated exchanges on the field - he started to walk off and I asked him if he was off to have his Sunday roast. The man lost it telling me to fuck off back to SA.

Needless to say he had the last laugh making a 100 that day

We had a good laugh about the incident the following season

Dec 30, 2022, 17:53

Claiming that de Kock was the best ever keeper/batsman for SA is an overstatement and an insult to the greats such as :




Richardson and 


Not forgetting AB.

How soon we forget.

As for batters how about






Richards was the most gifted batsman I have seen with Smith, Pollock and AB to follow.

Sure they are from the OLD DAY's but greats in many ways.

Dec 30, 2022, 18:06

Bullshit it’s no insult at all de Kock was better than Boucher, Jennings and Richardson

The last two were pretty ordinary bats especially Jennings

Boucher is de Kocks only real challenger

AB does not count, he was only a fill in

I’m talking wicket keeper/bats not batsmen alone so the likes of Richards, Pollock etc are not part of the equation

Dec 30, 2022, 19:22


Smith came on the seen playing like a house on fire especially in tests.  However he was a technically deficient batsman  and when opposing bowlers found a way t deal with him he started going back-wards in performances and unfortunately that became a problem and he really fizzled out after the 2011 WC,     Would not call him a really top class batsman like Pollock  

Dec 30, 2022, 20:54

First Amla and now Smith.

I’d love to know how these guys averaged 50 and beat everyone in front of them.

Imagine if they weren’t technically deficient…Bradman watch out!!!

Dec 30, 2022, 22:07

There are very few bats that are technically near perfect

Smith was class till the end as was Amla and as is Steve Smith, Root as was Chaunderpaul

Dec 31, 2022, 01:25

There is technique and then there’s reflexes. Markram is close to technically perfect….with a superb  score on the bowled/lbw index. But he fails. Why. Because his hand/eye coordination let’s him down. The opposite is true of Ock who is fatally flawed but rescued in many instances by quick reflexes.

Truly great batsmen tend to have great reflexes and superb technique…Kohli and Barry Richards are examples.

Dec 31, 2022, 02:35


All my statements in the past about hand-eye co-ordination has finally hit home - after you went bananas when I raised that in the past.    You are really improving in that regard - but I would like to know does it not go hand-in-hand with aging of players as well?        

Dec 31, 2022, 04:47

As opposed to eye-in eye? Certainly one would think so, in their early sixties some players might experience a slight slowness to stimuli.

Dec 31, 2022, 09:59

As far as numbers go, QDK is our best since readmission...if you exclude AB. His glovework is sublime and often taken for granted because he so rarely fails. One would probably take AB over QDK though.

I can't think of any keeper, local or abroad, since I've been alive, that I'd select over AB. So you kind of have to exclude him, i dunno, the curse of talent haha...leaving QDK as the clear winner. 

QDK has a test average of 38 and an ODI average of 45.6. Boucher averaged 30 in tests and 28 in ODIs. Dhoni averaged 38 in tests and 50 in ODIs.

While Smith was captain, we had the best top six in the world for a good long while. So Quintie was less relied on...which suited his mindset and ability.

As the big guns retired, and Quintie's load increased, we saw him fail in big moments more regularly.

What most don't know is that QDK had a bit of a babe ruth reputation about him on the JHB baseball scene. My partner's family have long baseball history in JHB and her brother recounted to me how a young QDK would be doing endless laps at baseball practice. And also that he was hitting adult-size home runs at 12 years of age.

He was a baseball player before he was a cricketer.

And now you know why he doesn't respect the gate.

Since you guys are talking about prediction is that, with Quintie no longer playing tests, he won't make a fuss about wanting to play straighter...Gayle, anyone? 

There's just no incentive for him to change much and it's not made better by the fact that he already hits well down the ground. This is where he differs from Amla. Amla had to force himself to play straighter because his twirly bat lost 5% its speed as he got older and those flashy shots through the off worked less regularly.

Anyway, I think our new keeper could match QDK over time. He showed some good maturity and to be honest, I say Verreynne looks like a good option for captain going forward.

The current batting line-up needs to go through. Elgar has had his run and overseen an extremely poor batting period that has lasted years. Bavuma isn't test quality. The "older" new recruits aren't paying dividends either. 

We'll see but it looks to me like the Proteas are at a crossroads.

My hope is that we bring in the new ABs and Smiths and trust their talent. 

Malan and Rickelton immediately spring to mind, with you have three spots to fill before you account for Brevis. Then there's Stubbs.






...not a bad platform.

Anyway, QDK will be a hired gun and raking in a good wad of cash for a few more years. And good on him! If we pick politics over merit then I'd be glad to see all the guys on my list above go where they're appreciated...and rewarded.

Dec 31, 2022, 14:53

Markram also has the habit of throwing his wicket away

Dec 31, 2022, 15:19

Stubbs looks more of a white ball player but who knows

Hermann the young leftie opening bat looks technically spot on as does Johnathan Bird and Josh Richards

I have never understood why Janneman Malan has never been given a go in the longer version of the game given he has done well for SA with the white ball but as per usual lost investment of late. It’s interesting that he has dropped down to 4 for his franchise.

Brevis is a must and right now

Rickelton is in the equation and got piss poorly treated by the selectors going into the Oz series

Reynard v Tonder is another that looked the part, has a respectable FC average l, got a look in in the test squad but again no investment

Verreynne is technically flawed but has a good head and is a fighter. Looks by far our best bet as keeper/bat

I feel that Markram is too talented not to make a comeback and succeed

I’d go with the following moving forward

1. Harmann / Bird

2. Richards / Malan

3. Brevis

4. Markram / v Tonder

5. Rickelton / Ruan de Swardt

6. Verreynne (w)

Give these bats the security of 10 tests to settle and show their worth

Dec 31, 2022, 18:45

Hopefully de Kock will still delight us in the shorter game while at the same time filling his pockets.

He has earned and deserves it all.

Jan 01, 2023, 04:39

Says Pompous Piles who as we all know failed to pinpoint QDK's "yawning Gap" flaw in the 3 videos I provided.

However, it's Fool steam ahead from him with this pearler.......

Markram is close to technically perfect….with a superb  score on the bowled/lbw index

What is wrong with Aiden Markram's technique - Darryl Cullinan 

but wait there's more this from another expert......

Aiden Markram’s superpower has become his Achilles heel

The timing of the Indian Premier League has given the Protea Test selectors a pass. No one wants to drop the fast-scoring Aiden Markram, who looks so good when he’s thumping boundaries. But it’s time to accept that Markram’s technique needs to change if he’s going to be consistently successful in Test cricket.

When Aiden Markram burst on to the Test scene in September 2017, South African cricket fans were certain they had a new star to follow for a decade or more.

His first season’s performance not only ticked all the statistical boxes (more than 1,000 runs at an average of 47.47 and four centuries) but his big innings against Bangladesh, Zimbabwe and Australia showed much more: elegance, power, confidence and great timing.

The most notable shot in his armoury was the forceful drive off the back foot through the covers. This is a shot that only the best players can do well. It requires perfect timing to meet the ball at the top of its bounce and outstanding coordination to get the hands high enough to keep the ball down.

Markram’s particular superpower was his ability to play this shot from an open position; in other words, with his feet pointing down the wicket and his chest open.

This should not be possible. Conventional coaching dictates that batters point their right foot (back foot for a right-hander) towards the point fielder (or parallel with the batting crease).

This allows the batter to get their eyes in line with the ball so they can make last-minute decisions about whether to play the ball or leave it alone.

Keegan Petersen’s “side-on” technique is key to understanding his success at Test level. Former Indian great Ravi Shastri was so impressed by Petersen against India’s pace attack that he compared him to the legendary Gundappa Viswanath.

With his head over middle stump and the ball on or outside off-stump, Markram is effectively guessing the line of the ball.

In limited-overs cricket or against bowlers below the highest class this doesn’t matter so much. But with three slips and a gully in place for extended periods in the Test-match format and the world’s best bowlers consistently delivering high-pace deliveries in the “corridor of uncertainty”, he has to hope that his eye will save him.

Open to error

Markram is also more open now than he was when he lashed the Australians to all corners of Kingsmead in 2017. Or when his astonishing 169 off 129 balls (with seven sixes) at Newlands for the Titans showed he was on quite a different level from other players in domestic cricket. A long career in all forms of international cricket seemed assured.

Not only was he less open in those innings, he also played the ball later then, which is always a good thing.

The mention of Australia brings to mind the great run-scorer Steve Smith. I have been told that Smith is an example of another player who plays “open”. He does not.

Smith puts his right foot in the conventional position parallel to the crease initially against shorter balls on the offside. Smith’s trick is to leave his left leg dangling over the leg stump (making him look like he’s open). He then pivots to that left leg with amazing speed if he spots that the ball can be played through the leg side.

Markram’s open method requires everything else to be in perfect working order.

When his timing or coordination or perception or footwork or anything else is not at 100%, he will nick the ball to third slip or gully. International bowlers know this by now. It’s not form or confidence that is holding Markram back from his early promise in the Test arena: it’s where he puts his right foot.

One can only hope that he’s able to make the adjustment because he’s a massive asset to South African cricket. Apart from his magnificent fielding, he’s a leader (he captained a World Cup-winning SA Under-19 team), he’s articulate and, based on the evidence of something I saw after a day’s play in New Zealand, he’s a nice guy. When all the players turned for the dressing room after a hard day in the field, Markram stayed on the pitch to have an encouraging word with young Lutho Sipamla.

The Protea selectors would do well to have a few words of their own with the coaching staff before they next have a chance to select Aiden Markram. Markram with his superpower restored would be a great boost for the Test team.


The egg continues to flow


Continue reading

Jan 01, 2023, 08:23

Dentsie, still has to cut and paste articles because he's too afraid to have an opinion of his own.

New year, same little girl.

Jan 01, 2023, 12:26

Actually my favourite cut and paste is your Reeza "World Class" Hendriks's stats.......suck it up...."Coach"

Jan 01, 2023, 13:38

Allow me to cut and past my own response, of me previously responding to you...because remember when you decided to make a fuss last time? Your timing was so bad that you literally made your post on the same day that Rossouw was quoted as hailing Reeza World Class. And while Reeza was on a 70+ average since returning. LOLzzzzzzz

For the record, there is newer and better talent now to replace Reeza but I'd still back him for a season.


I don’t think you understand what should and should not embarrass a person.

The guy that i picked, has the best ODI and T20 average in the Proteas since I selected him.

A numbers game you say? I guess those numbers don’t count?

Funny stuff.

And now we have one of the best limited-overs bats in SA completely agreeing with me.

What’s truly amazing is how you chose to make your post on the exact day that the article on Rossouw’s comments is released.

If cricket is a numbers game then you should be begging me for my next tip because i longed a player that hardly anyone was looking at and he outperformed literally everyone.

Embarrassing for you indeed."

Jan 01, 2023, 16:29

Plum you sound desperate, almost like you're trying to rescue yourself from drowning. 

Doesn't matter what anyone says you've glorified a quota.

Deal with it old won't be the last time your fat lip runs away with itself.

My advice....just fess up that you've made a goose of yourself.

Jan 01, 2023, 16:42

Yeah yeah…

Denny do you know how i know you’re a girl at heart?

Because boys are interested in things while girls are interested in people.

You’re way too interested in people, my girl.

All the other guys here offer thoughts and ideas of their own. You don’t appear capable, but you have thoughts on top of thoughts about people.

Try for a moment to forget other people, and give us an idea of your own…just once.

See, you can’t.



Jan 02, 2023, 01:22


How did this thread go from cricket to girls and boys.


Laughing graphics

Jan 02, 2023, 10:30

See what i mean?

I’ve been accusing you for years of not knowing much about cricket and telling you to give us any sort of analysis of your own.

Other than comparing one average to another…or perhaps strike rates if we’re lucky…you haven’t ever offered anything else.

And even then you can’t do that well since it was not too long ago you tried to put Lara and Tendulkar in the same category. Remember?

Maybe i missed your technical posts.

If so, and since you love to cut and paste, post us any thread where you’ve done any analysis or spoken in any sort of technical detail about any aspect of cricket.

Jan 02, 2023, 11:26

No-one knows what you many times do you have to be told not to speak in tonques.

And I don't post for your interest, matter of fact I couldn't give a flea's nipple if you don't read my posts.

But here's the thingo you weird Doppie seeing as that I can't think of anyone better to explain....

According to Mike's list of SAFFA's your wonder boy didn't get a bid which leaves him out in the cold.

Tell us why........why would everyone of those franchises deep six your "World Class" quota?

Jan 02, 2023, 14:18

Aah, the "Me no understandi"defence!

A cowardly classic.

Let's try again...

Copy and paste one of your previous posts that show even a slight knowledge of the technicals of the game. IE your own analysis.

Not gonna happen, huh?

Jan 02, 2023, 17:10

Please don’t speak in  ‘tonques’(sic)….Comrade September gets upset. I love the Cullinan analysis….clearly he dislikes non square stances, but that’s a choice and many top batsmen do it. What’s really hilarious is he then admonishes Markram about getting bowled, not even bothering to check the stats, which show none of our top bats for for the last 20 years are bowled less often in tests than Markram.

Which actually supports the point you make. Comrade pastes these things as if they are the 10 Commandments,,..truth handed down to mortals. But half of the time it’s bs, which is the risk if you have no opinions of your own.

Jan 02, 2023, 21:11

Lol Moz...

Indeed, the way you know that you're on to something, like with QDK's technique, is you notice that there is a flaw in his technique, without ever having looked at the actual stats. You then look up the stats and you find them in support of your argument. 

I'm quite sure Dentsie never watches the game because anyone that has watched Markram play will tell you that he is technically sound but succumbs to brain farts. With KP, this was a given because he would take the game on, so when he got out to something weird and unnecessary, one accepted it as part and parcel of the man, safe in the knowledge that he was averaging close to he beat the demons a lot of the time and often when it counted most. 

With Markram, it's always been very clear that he does his best to play within himself and responsibly, but at some point he either over-focuses or just gets a brain zap and finds himself walking back to the pavilion with everyone wondering what the hell just happened. The tell-tale sign being that he hardly ever gets out to good balls.

This was why most of us, you included as I recall, thought he should be tried down the order...and we said this before he was actually tried down the order believing that with less pressure the brain farts could be diminished.

All of this is to say that Dentsie never finds himself in the position of having made any sort of call that turns out to be either true or heavily supported by statists. 

Hence the deep dives and silly deflective posts.

A funny girl indeed.

Jan 02, 2023, 22:51

He/she desperately wants something from the posting community, but we are failing him/her.

Jan 03, 2023, 06:27

Pssssttt Pompous Piles.....down here.....a moment please

Seems like you're still confused......let me help.

I haven't agreed or disagreed with your claim that Markram is close to perfect in technique.

The ones who are disagreeing with you are the "dumbasses" who have professionally played the game.....what would they know Huh?

Besides the two I've quoted there are others who have said the same thing i.e. Shaun Pollock and Vernon Philander and I quote 

Another former Proteas allrounder - Vernon Philander - suggested that Markram may need time away from the national setup to work on his game.

“When you’re struggling at that level it’s very difficult to pick yourself up, especially still being in the setup,” said Philander.

“There has to be an acknowledgement of the struggle with your technique. It’s probably [about] taking him out of that setup to go work on his technique and go and work on eliminating certain dismissal modes. He’s probably going to play for South Africa for a very long time and I’d much rather they address those issues now.”

Geeez that makes it four who've said exactly the same thing! Still I digress, what would they know Huh? Afterall we all know that you're never wrong.

I'd rather believe you our resident World Authority who learnt cricket playing for the navy than those dumbasses who've spent a decade or more centre stage world wide playing for their counties.

Ja Piles, as always you're right and the experts are stupid.


Cullinan - Markram been a walking lbw this series |

Jan 03, 2023, 18:59

The one was a reporter, the other was Cullinan who berated Markram for getting bowled too often when he in fact is bowled least often among our best players. He may be a test cricketer but he is totally befuddled and dare I say he has a pet peeve he was exercising. 

And I didn’t learn my cricket in the navy…I batted number 3 for my school and opened the bowling. It wasn’t a cricket mecca, but we had some decent players.

Jan 03, 2023, 19:17

Yes, Dentsie, that’s four copy pastes of other people talking about Markram with none of them being specific in any way as to what his troubles actually are.

Tell us what YOU think of Markram’s technique/situation.

Jan 04, 2023, 10:44

So i take it that’s a “No!” on offering any original thoughts on Markram?

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