My feeling is that rebuilding is better done with more all-rounders in the starting team.
More of this is needed...
Up at 93mph/150kph again, steepling bounce from a length and de Kock takes it leaping above his head! This wasn't particularly short, but it rose viciously from a length past Perera's outside edge
Sri Lanka can't handle pace with some bounce. The formulae to beat them never changed.
Gets his man! Horrible shot, and the result of a scrambled mind due to the pace that Nortje has been bowling. That's a proper working-over from Nortje, banging this in back of a length at 90mph/145kph. Mendis shapes to pull, looking to take the fast bowler down, but is so late on the shot. It flies up, looping into the hands of Ngidi at mid-on. Nortje has the second wicket of a high-octane innings
The quota Sipamla hits hard and giving away 38 runs and 4 byes is at more than 8 runs per over and the attack is not up to standard,
SriLanka's batsmen are enjoying the poor bowling and easy runs to be scored using the poor bowling - coupled to poor fielding by Ngidi (2) and Sipamla (3) giving away an extra 5 runs.
Mulder was a relevation with his bowling and he was given 6 overs to bowl giving away 13 runs and taking a wicket. Incidentally Mulder and Sipamla bowls at the same speed - so how can the difference in giving away runs be so huge?
I am not going to hope for much in the second session. Ngidi is not the fittest sportsman around and as the test goes on his bowling will deteriorate - hopefully not the level Sipamla has mastered, Shit was the situation thus far and it can only get worse to super shit,
Tea time day 1 and the score favours Sri-Lanka massively.and the reason is the bowling attack, the fact is that Sipamla is a Super supershit bowler and could not be used properly throughout the session.
If any team has to have four bowlers - Mulder is not a bowler - but an all rounder - then the three strike bowlers must all three on top, Ngidi started off well - but as stated he is not the fittesst bowler around - and showed signs of deterioration oin the second session and the passenger helping Sri-Lanka on . Nortje was top class - Sipamla was by a distance not. Mulder wa exceptional - but his task is being the back-up bowler and he had to become a front line bowler in the team.to replace Sipamla in that respect,
The bowling was on average not good enough - but wait for the batting and that may even be worse. Poor De Kock - he should tell SAC to stick the nuts where the monkeys stick their nuts and just accept that if they select shit - they must accept disastrous results.
Great to see Sipamla in the starting side ahead of the pretender Stuurman.
I know nothing about Pretorious so can’t comment
Seen enough of Sipamla to know that he is the real deal unlike Mike’s ignorant racist take on him being a quota player. That comment tells me you know nothing about cricket
None of the bowlers have been good today, Nortje being the best but nothing special
Sipamla has had a poor start but that does not define him as a player
You can see from his lovely easy natural athletic action he is the real deal
Let’s hope he turns it around this test and proves his ignorant detractors wrong
Good to see Mulder in ahead of useless Pretorious
Dave
With respect the only people other than you who are happy with Sipamla are you, He was of great help to him. His first three overs went for over 10 runs per over and the problem remain - my comments have nothing to do with racism and everything to do with performance,
He at last manage to take a wicket of the number 8 batsman of SriLanka - the real batsmen of Sri-Lanka treated him like an infant used as a bowler. By the way he had a spoor start on the tour of India in 2018 and a horrible start against the English T20I game. How many poor starts would you suggest are acceptable?
That is not the only reason I am unhappy about the team for other reasons as well/ SA is now rated the no 8 test playing team in the world. Who got us to that terrible position? The -
* the previously great players whose performances went South - eg Amla and Steyn:
* the selection of over-aged player to replace them based on reputation and not merit; and
* the hangovers from that era who are still in the team.
I am prepared to lay a bet that both Elgar - the worst fielder I have seen for many years anyway - as well as Du Plessis and also Bavuma would fail,
You are speaking utter horseshit he is highly rated in SA, just ask Ntini
Only an ignorant cricket follow would miss the obvious talent in the guy
He proved that in this game with a great comeback in his later spells after going for nearly 10 an over in his first spell
Great comeback to get a wicket and reduce his runs per over to 4.8 from 10
He was justifiably nervous on debut and should never have been asked to open the bowling
This kid like Rabada and Ngidi is the real deal
With that beautiful action he is just going to get better and better
Ask Ntini - obviously the wrong person to ask for an opinion.
He only made the comeback when the top SriLanka batsmen were out of the way. Obviously the bowlers are not the yardstick to measure against - batsmen are.
Who else should have been asked to open the bowling? The strike bowlers were to open the bowling and he was replaced early because he turned out not to be a strike bowler at all. When he had to bowl two overs before lunch he was no better than he was earlier.
Why was Mulder not nervous when he ended up replacing him. In the latest provincial game Mulder was rarely used to bowl and he took no wickets - but he made 190 runs in the two innings he batted.
From what I have seen of Sipamla he is NOT an international level player and is sure to fail when selected because neither him nor even Ngidi really made an impact on the opposition batters, Before the new ball was taken Ngidi bowled only 13 overs and on the whole day Sipamla only 14 overs.
Fucking wake up the obvious openers should have been Nortje and Ngidi
Mulder was not on debut for crying out loud and looked pretty bog ordinary as a bowler
Are you saying Ntini’s opinion of a bowler should be ignored?
Should we be taking your pathetic ignorant take on Sipamla instead?
Today smacked of an immature attack.
Every time there was a bit of pressure the bowlers failed to build on it by either being too aggressive or simply not being accurate enough.
If they get another 80 runs it will be tough for the us to come back.
I'm predicting the wheels coming off in the final session tomorrow when the Sri Lankan spinners bamboozle our middle order.
If Sri Lanka hold their nerve they could go into the second half of the game with +150 lead.
Dave
Sure Mulder was ineffective - he only took three of the six wickets that fell today and he took out top batsmen and not a no 8. And Ntini would never say anything but praise for Sipamla because it would undermine the quota system.
Plum
Unfortunately I expect the wheels to come off much earlier than tomorrow afternoon and I do think that De Kock. Martram and Mulder put up a fight to try and keep the Proteas in the game, but like in 2019 the rest of the batsmen would fail. If Elgar, Van der Dussen. Du Plessis and Bavuma combined make a hundred runs it would be a miracle.
I expect that the three I mentioned first will try to get 150 runs - but that would leave the team 150 or more short of what SriLanka got in the first innings, A loss against SriLanka in this test is inevitable.
As soon as the selections are based on merit and not only on reputation and quotas a return to form could be expected. Todays performances confirmed we are f#cked by the finger of fate as far as cricket in the country is concerned,
Plum
Unfortunately I expect the wheels to come off much earlier than tomorrow afternoon and I do think that De Kock. Martram and Mulder put up a fight to try and keep the Proteas in the game, but like in 2019 the rest of the batsmen would fail. If Elgar, Van der Dussen. Du Plessis and Bavuma combined make a hundred runs it would be a miracle.
I expect that the three I mentioned first will try to get 150 runs - but that would leave the team 150 or more short of what SriLanka got in the first innings, A loss against SriLanka in this test is inevitable.
As soon as the selections are based on merit and not only on reputation and quotas a return to form could be expected. Todays performances confirmed we are f#cked by the finger of fate as far as cricket in the country is concerned,
Watching Mulder bowl confirmed he will always be a part timer. There is nothing special to work with there.
I just hope he is a far better bat than bowler for his bowling is bog ordinary
Sipamla on the other hand has the perfect action, is tall and has room to get better
Stop being a fucking pathetic racist twat with your take in Ntini and his admiration for Sipamla
That had fuck all to do with being a quota as he is not a quota, Ntini was talking with passion about the guy
Only a stupid fucking prick would call Sipamla a quota. It’s fucking disgusting and more than anything proves you know fuck all about cricket - sweet fuck all
Bog ordinary - love the term - means that you agree with me about Mulder, He is a an all=rounder and not a frontline bowler. He has some advantages in his favor - he is extremely accurate and difficult to play He rarely gave away fours on a platter like a certain favorite of yours did.
But then the fact that he took 3 crucial wickets means nothing as well?
Bog ordinary - love the term - means that you agree with me about Mulder, He is a an all=rounder and not a frontline bowler. He has some advantages in his favor - he is extremely accurate and difficult to play He rarely gave away fours on a platter like a certain favorite of yours did.
But then the fact that he took 3 crucial wickets means nothing as well?
Accurate my arse, he threw loads down leg that the bats missed out on and his first wicket was a crap wide ball outside off that the stupid bat flashed and got an edge to
I never saw his other two wickets but his first one was a pathetic wide ball
Sure Dave
Just before the match while discussing the team Haysman was surprised that Sipamla was included ahead of Pretorius, Ntini was on the panel and said nothing defending Sipamla - nothing at all/ His praise thereafter was basically for Ntini defending Sipamla after him failing as strike bowler.
I don’t care what Ntini did not say I’m just repeating the fact that he rates Sipamla highly and I can see why given that smooth action.
This kid will be as good as Rabada and Ngidi, he has the same natural talent
Sorry to say... Sipamla looks like he may be boxing in the wrong division.
Yea. He does have a beautiful action, but that doesn’t translate into wickets.
Fanie de Villiers looked like a drunk hobo trying to moonwalk, but he was effective.
Sipamla just looks very ordinary.
I hope I’m wrong cos we need a few dark ones in the side to keep politicians happy. But he is a far cry away from any of our previous opening bowlers.
Jarhead
Must agree with you - there is more to be a good bowler than physical appearance and physical action. Their needs to be an ability to work out the bowling according to individual batsman phasing their bowling,
Fanie and Donald were masters in doing exactly that and to a lesser extend even the Pollocks - I went to see a test between SA and Australia, Barlow - who was not the top SA Bowler - was bowling at the Aussie captain - Ian Chappell and the latter missed the balls three times, Barlow took of his specs and walked over to him handing him the specs and offered it to him , The next ball he clean-bowled Chappell.
I also remember the look on Alan Border's face when Adrian Kuyper clean-bowled him ion the SA-Aistralia game in the 1992 cricket world cup -utter shock and disbelieve.
Both examples were not frontline bowlers - both did not have particularly good physical acttion - but they head the ability to understand and evaluate what the batsmen they phase shortcomings they had and concentrate on that.
It is to a large extent missing from present bowlers and that us why the present bowlers are not as affective as they would otherwise has been.
Well bowled lutho. He looked so much better today. Well deserved 4 wickets.
You ignorant twats
Dumb Mike is banging on about the likes of Fanie and Donald working out where to bowl to a bat - fuck me do you really think a 22 year old Donald was doing that or a 22 year old Steyn?
How fucking stupid are you, seriously?
450 was a bridge too far but the guys did well to clean up the tail this morning.
Mike, you need to understand the value of a natural action.
It's easier to add pace and accuracy to it. And in shorter format, bowlers with natural actions find it easier to bowl variations.
Since we discussed Morkel previously - I'd suggest this, go back and watch Matthew Hoggard bowling. Bit of a Chubby guy but with a very natural action...unlike Morkel. Notice how his natural action allowed him to complete a delivery with his bowling hand on different sides of his body depeending on the type of swing he wanted to bowl. That was an adjustment that was suggested to him. His natural action made it easy for him to adapt. He did so and became a wonderful swing bowler. It's just an example and though he averaged 30, I think you get what I'm saying.
Kagiso and Lutho might become our hunting pair for the next decade...and both of them have the easiest of actions. And both are as rapid as it gets.
If there is someone you want to listen to when it comes to bowling it's Holding. The guy is never wrong when it comes to spotting bowling potential and talent.
Have some faith.
I assure you, both Smith and Boucher are very competent cricket minds.
Still regretting them picking Elgar, Mike?
It’s just so obvious watching Sipamla bowling that he has the raw ingredients to make a good test bowler.
If you don’t see that you don’t know the game
Same can be said of Markram as a bat
And now Bavuma digs his heels in...
Gotta love the little man.
Bavuma is a mystery - elegant and has every shot in the book but never fulfilled his potential
Much like Prince, JP Duminy, Neil McKenzie and Jacques Rudolph
He started too late Saffex.
...and when he did he only played tests, if I'm not mistaken.
That's fine for bowlers but I think test batters need to play in the short format as well since it's tough to keep your level high with such large gaps between high level playing opportunities.
For me, if you're not good enough for ODIs and can't adapt then you're not good enough to play tests.
I get that T20s are a nuisance and it's fine if there is a different team for that but the ODI and Test squad, particularly the batters, should be almost unchanged.
So...
Elgar
Aiden
Bavuma
Faf
All got runs and were all the players Mike said shouldn't play.
Your predictions are cursed, Mike.
SL under some pressure to produce now.
How they must long for their soft tracks where spinners can err without care.
Another reason why Warne was such a master. He could make use of both dead and bouncing pitches equally.
Lol
Faf out on 199 ??
As well as Elgar and Faf did we need to move on from these guys as they are old and have below standard test career averages
Rassie is not worth investing in, he is 31 and has a crap test average
There are too many talented young bats around to waste time on these 3
"Rassie is not worth investing in, he is 31 and has a crap test average"
He has to go now.
Rassie does not require investing in.
He's one of those guys that came from provincial level already on standard for the international game.
Great bat speed and a solid technique. Guy immediately impressed with how decisively he went about batting.
We need hold-over players right now and he fits the bill as we draft in a few younger guys and wait for them to mature.
Also, he can play both formats.
Funny huh? Remember when we had Mako, Smith, Kallis, Ab and Amla as our top five?
All aside from McKenzie averaging around 50.
Anyway, while consistency is always a paramount objective, I've always maintained that getting guys in at 27 is too late. Most of our really good players came into the Proteas in their early twenties.
So, in essence, I agree with you guys. Just that we never seem to find the right moment to wipe the slate clean. I put it down to selectors and coaches looking out for themselves and their record rather than appearing a bit silly for a year or two while they wait for their investement to pay off.
Crap Plum, Rassie’s technique is average and his test average is piss poor
He is a waste of time aged 31 - poor poor selection
Perhaps he's not the greatest pick for that spot but I do understand the reasoning behind it.
What don't you like about his technique? I know it's not his back-lift or bat speed.
Not in the V enough for you?
No fluidity in his stroke play it looks so tentative and pedantic
Haha funny how we can look at the same thing and see two different situations.
For me, one of his strongest attributes is his decisiveness.
Amla in his prime had a similar bat speed to Rassie. However, Amla was more wristy and liked to cut, so looked less jerky, or lacking fluidity, as you put it.
Rassie plays the ball very late and right under his nose while preferring to hit down the ground. Perhaps that's why he looks less fluid? He gets through his shots more quickly so it looks a bit like a Chaplin movie.
He seems to be ok in the shorter version of the game far more tentative in the longer where his flaws are easily exposed
He is a poor investment at test level. I see no point in investing in an average looking 32 year old who to date averages 32 after 9 innings
Surely v Tonder ahead of him is a more than obvious option - it’s a no brainer
I’d rather see a 21 year old v Tonder averaging 32 at test level and building
I agree, Saffex.
Just that, to some degree, I understand his selection.
There are a couple of other 20-23 year-olds I'd prefer to start now.
Especially given the current series and the level of opposition.
No doubt we'll put them in, for a debut, at the MCG. And then drop them for three years if they don't get big hundreds.
...it's our way.
So true Plum
It’s so obvious that v Tonder should be playing against an average SL side to blood him
So short sighted by Boucher and co
All of Kallis, Amla and De Villiers had poor starts in their international career - I think after 10 games Kallis' average score was about 15 runs - while I can still remember Amla in his first test in Australia where he looked totally clueless. De Villiers also were not good in batting in his initial tests and shorter versions of the game.
All three had one thing in common - they were young with the necessary flair and talent to become greats - which all three became after initial questionable starts, They were worth investigating in and there returns were marvelous.
However, in recent times the Protea selection went awry and weird. I was a Van der Dussen supporter for at least 5 years before he was selected and if he was brought in before Cook who came into the Proteas when in his early 30's - the latter was 36 when he was at last replaced - and for the Lions for years was an opening batsman. He could have developed on international level and built a good career for himself and the Proteas. That was not the case. To start building a career on international level when most players are already past their prime playing age is not realistic.
I think that since 2014 only De Kock and Rabada - who were top class in the Under 19 WC - and on a slightly lower level Markram and Ngidi - were real youngster selections. Especially over the last two years a number of over and near thirties players were picked,
Dave is right - there are a number of talented youngsters who has ample development potential that should be brought into and used by the Proteas against especially weaker teams to enhance their self-believe and give them an opportunity to start and built with confidence their international careers.
Of those the following forced their way into the squad already:-
* Verreinne
* Van Tonder
* Mulder
* M Pretorius
Mulder was used in one test before and then got injured and was out of the game for a long time, In his second test he was a really good all-rounder, I see Mulder rather as a batting all-rounder and Pretorius as a bowling all-rounder,
There is a number of other players Dave mentioned and to his list I would add Sipamla and Coetzee - provided they get the right coaching.. With regard to Sipamla one must remember that Steyn also had a horrid start in tests in Australia - but develop afterwards to be the no 1 bowler in the world.
There is one issue that bothers me about virtually all the older players who retired since 2013 and that is what I call the 6:1 factor. representing 6 sub-par batting performances and 1 good one. After two years of that tendency Du Plessis and Elgar fell totally into the 6:1 factor category, Will their next six innings be sub-par again? I suspect the 6:1 factor will prevail.
clevermike
Hall Of Fame
42383 posts
This is the worst SA team that could be selected:-
Markram
Elgar
Van der Dussen
Du Plessis
De Kock
Bavuma
Mullder,
Maharaj
Ngidi
Nortje
Sipamla
The batting side is putrid with three regular failures over the last two years still in the side - Elgar, Du Plessis and Bavuma. The bowling attack is poor as well, with the worst being Sipamla - an obvious quota selection - not considered by the Warriors as their best bowler, He cannot be used as a strike bowler at all.
I think that the selectors - including Boucher and Smith - are not interested in team renewal and team building for the future and that the batting will fail again. And the bowling will also be questionable with a passenger being Sipamla and Ngidi being out of form,
SA chance of winning the test is about 30% - depending how well the SriLanka batsmen do - but against the sub-par bowling attack of SA is likely to help them. And Elgar and Du Plessis is bound to fail.