The SA side for the first SriLanka Test

Forum » Cricket » The SA side for the first SriLanka Test

Dec 26, 2020, 09:56

This is the worst SA team that could be selected:-

Markram

Elgar

Van der Dussen

Du Plessis

De Kock

Bavuma

Mullder,

Maharaj

Ngidi

Nortje

Sipamla

The batting side is putrid with three regular failures over the last two years still in the side - Elgar, Du Plessis and Bavuma.   The bowling attack is poor as well, with the worst being Sipamla - an obvious quota  selection -  not considered by the Warriors as their best bowler,   He cannot be used as a strike bowler at all.   

I think that the selectors - including Boucher and Smith - are not interested in team renewal and team building for the future and that the batting will fail again.   And the bowling will also be questionable with a passenger being Sipamla and Ngidi being out of form,

SA chance of winning the test is about 30% - depending how well the SriLanka batsmen do - but against the sub-par bowling attack of SA is likely to help them.  And Elgar and Du Plessis is bound to fail.                 

Dec 26, 2020, 10:49

My feeling is that rebuilding is better done with more all-rounders in the starting team.

 



Dec 26, 2020, 10:54

More of this is needed...

Nortje to Perera, no run

Up at 93mph/150kph again, steepling bounce from a length and de Kock takes it leaping above his head! This wasn't particularly short, but it rose viciously from a length past Perera's outside edge

Dec 26, 2020, 11:15

Sri Lanka can't handle pace with some bounce. The formulae to beat them never changed.


Gets his man! Horrible shot, and the result of a scrambled mind due to the pace that Nortje has been bowling. That's a proper working-over from Nortje, banging this in back of a length at 90mph/145kph. Mendis shapes to pull, looking to take the fast bowler down, but is so late on the shot. It flies up, looping into the hands of Ngidi at mid-on. Nortje has the second wicket of a high-octane innings

Dec 26, 2020, 12:09

The quota Sipamla hits hard and giving away 38 runs and 4 byes is at more than  8 runs per over and the attack is not up to standard,

SriLanka's batsmen are enjoying the poor bowling and easy runs to be scored using the poor bowling - coupled to poor fielding by Ngidi (2) and Sipamla (3) giving away an extra 5 runs.

Mulder was a relevation with his bowling and he was given 6 overs to bowl giving away 13 runs and taking a wicket.  Incidentally Mulder and  Sipamla bowls at the same speed - so how can the difference in giving away runs be so huge?

I am not going to hope for much in the second session.    Ngidi is not the fittest sportsman around and as the test goes on his bowling will deteriorate - hopefully not the level Sipamla has mastered,    Shit was the situation thus far and it can only get worse to super shit,         

Dec 26, 2020, 15:07

Tea time day 1 and the score favours Sri-Lanka massively.and the reason is the bowling attack,   the fact is that Sipamla is a Super supershit bowler and could not be used properly throughout the session.   

If  any team has to have four bowlers - Mulder is not a  bowler - but an all rounder - then the three strike bowlers must all three on top,   Ngidi started off well - but as stated he is not the fittesst bowler around - and showed signs of deterioration oin the second session and the passenger helping Sri-Lanka on .  Nortje was top class  - Sipamla was by a distance not.  Mulder wa exceptional - but his task is being the back-up bowler and he had to become a front line bowler in the team.to replace Sipamla in that respect,

The bowling was on average not good enough - but wait for the batting and  that may even be worse.   Poor De Kock - he should tell SAC to stick the nuts where the monkeys stick their nuts and just accept that if they select shit - they must accept disastrous results.      

Dec 26, 2020, 15:56

Great to see Sipamla in the starting side ahead of the pretender Stuurman.

I know nothing about Pretorious so can’t comment 

Seen enough of Sipamla to know that he is the real deal unlike Mike’s ignorant racist take on him being a quota player. That comment tells me you know nothing about cricket

None of the bowlers have been good today, Nortje being the best but nothing special

Sipamla has had a poor start but that does not define him as a player

You can see from his lovely easy natural athletic action he is the real deal

Let’s hope he turns it around this test and proves his ignorant detractors wrong 

Good to see Mulder in ahead of useless Pretorious 

Dec 26, 2020, 18:02

Dave 

With respect the only people other than you who are happy with Sipamla are you,   He was of great help to him.   His first three overs went for over 10 runs per over and the problem remain - my comments have nothing to do with racism  and everything to do with performance,  

He at last manage to take a wicket of the number 8 batsman of  SriLanka - the real batsmen of Sri-Lanka treated him like an infant used as a bowler.  By the way he had  a spoor start on the tour of India in 2018 and a horrible start against the English T20I game.   How many poor starts would you suggest are acceptable?

That is not the only reason I am unhappy about the team for other reasons as well/   SA is now rated the no 8 test playing  team in the world.   Who got us to that terrible position?   The -

*   the previously great players whose performances went South - eg Amla and Steyn:

*   the selection of over-aged player to replace them based on reputation and not merit; and 

*    the hangovers from that era who are still in the team.  

I am prepared to lay a bet that both Elgar - the worst fielder I have seen for many years anyway - as well as Du Plessis and also Bavuma would fail,

   

    

Dec 26, 2020, 18:19

You are speaking utter horseshit he is highly rated in SA, just ask Ntini

Only an ignorant cricket follow would miss the obvious talent in the guy

He proved that in this game with a great comeback in his later spells after going for nearly 10 an over in his first spell

Great comeback to get a wicket and reduce his runs per over to 4.8 from 10

He was justifiably nervous on debut and should never have been asked to open the bowling

This kid like Rabada and Ngidi is the real deal

With that beautiful action he is just going to get better and better

Dec 26, 2020, 19:03

Ask Ntini - obviously the wrong person to ask  for an opinion.

He only made the comeback when the top SriLanka batsmen were out of the way.   Obviously the bowlers are not the yardstick to measure against - batsmen are.   

Who else should have been asked to open the bowling?   The strike bowlers  were to open the bowling and he was replaced early because he turned out not to be a strike bowler at all.  When he had to bowl two overs before lunch he was no better than he was earlier.

Why was Mulder not nervous when he ended up replacing him.  In the latest provincial game Mulder was rarely used to bowl and he took no wickets - but he made 190 runs in the two innings he batted.    

From what I have seen of Sipamla he is NOT an international level player and is sure to  fail when selected because neither him nor even Ngidi really made  an impact on the opposition batters,   Before the new ball was taken Ngidi bowled only 13 overs and on the whole day Sipamla only 14 overs.                                 

Dec 26, 2020, 19:10

Fucking wake up the obvious openers should have been Nortje and Ngidi

Mulder was not on debut for crying out loud and looked pretty bog ordinary as a bowler

Are you saying Ntini’s opinion of a bowler should be ignored?

Should we be taking your pathetic ignorant take on Sipamla instead?

Dec 26, 2020, 20:32

Today smacked of an immature attack.

Every time there was a bit of pressure the bowlers failed to build on it by either being too aggressive or simply not being accurate enough.

If they get another 80 runs it will be tough for the us to come back.

I'm predicting the wheels coming off in the final session tomorrow when the Sri Lankan spinners bamboozle our middle order.

If Sri Lanka hold their nerve they could go into the second half of the game with +150 lead.

Dec 26, 2020, 20:48

Dave

Sure Mulder was ineffective - he only took three of the six wickets that  fell  today and he took out top batsmen and not a no 8.   And Ntini would never say anything but praise for Sipamla because it would undermine the quota system.   


     

Dec 26, 2020, 21:10

Plum

Unfortunately I expect the wheels to come off  much earlier than tomorrow afternoon  and I do think that  De Kock. Martram and Mulder put up a fight to try and keep the Proteas in the game, but like in 2019 the rest of the batsmen would fail.   If Elgar, Van der Dussen. Du Plessis and Bavuma combined make a hundred runs it would be a miracle. 

I expect that the three I mentioned first will try to get  150 runs - but that would leave the team 150 or more short of what SriLanka got in the first innings,   A loss against  SriLanka in this test is inevitable. 

As soon as the selections are based on merit and not only on reputation and quotas a return to form could be expected.    Todays  performances  confirmed we are f#cked by the finger of fate as far as cricket in the country is concerned,            

Dec 26, 2020, 21:10

Plum

Unfortunately I expect the wheels to come off  much earlier than tomorrow afternoon  and I do think that  De Kock. Martram and Mulder put up a fight to try and keep the Proteas in the game, but like in 2019 the rest of the batsmen would fail.   If Elgar, Van der Dussen. Du Plessis and Bavuma combined make a hundred runs it would be a miracle. 

I expect that the three I mentioned first will try to get  150 runs - but that would leave the team 150 or more short of what SriLanka got in the first innings,   A loss against  SriLanka in this test is inevitable. 

As soon as the selections are based on merit and not only on reputation and quotas a return to form could be expected.    Todays  performances  confirmed we are f#cked by the finger of fate as far as cricket in the country is concerned,            

Dec 26, 2020, 22:11

Watching Mulder bowl confirmed he will always be a part timer. There is nothing special to work with there.

I just hope he is a far better bat than bowler for his bowling is bog ordinary

Sipamla on the other hand has the perfect action, is tall and has room to get better

Stop being a fucking pathetic racist twat with your take in Ntini and his admiration for Sipamla

That had fuck all to do with being a quota as he is not a quota, Ntini was talking with passion about the guy

Only a stupid fucking prick would call Sipamla a quota. It’s fucking disgusting and more than anything proves you know fuck all about cricket - sweet fuck all

Dec 26, 2020, 22:25

Bog ordinary - love the term - means that you agree with me  about Mulder,   He is a an all=rounder and not a frontline bowler.    He has some advantages in his favor - he is extremely accurate and difficult to play     He rarely gave away fours on a platter like a certain favorite of yours did.   

But then the fact that he took 3 crucial wickets means nothing as well?

Dec 26, 2020, 22:25

Bog ordinary - love the term - means that you agree with me  about Mulder,   He is a an all=rounder and not a frontline bowler.    He has some advantages in his favor - he is extremely accurate and difficult to play     He rarely gave away fours on a platter like a certain favorite of yours did.   

But then the fact that he took 3 crucial wickets means nothing as well?

Dec 26, 2020, 22:34

Accurate my arse, he threw loads down leg that the bats missed out on and his first wicket was a crap wide ball outside off that the stupid bat flashed and got an edge to

I never saw his other two wickets but his first one was a pathetic wide ball

Dec 26, 2020, 22:37

Sure Dave

Just before the match while discussing the team Haysman was surprised that Sipamla was included ahead of Pretorius,    Ntini was on the panel and said nothing defending Sipamla - nothing at all/   His praise thereafter was basically for Ntini defending Sipamla  after him failing as strike bowler.   

Dec 26, 2020, 22:41

I don’t care what Ntini did not say I’m just repeating the fact that he rates Sipamla highly and I can see why given that smooth action.

This kid will be as good as Rabada and Ngidi, he has the same natural talent

Dec 27, 2020, 02:30

Sorry to say... Sipamla looks like he may be boxing in the wrong division.

Yea. He does have a beautiful action, but that doesn’t translate into wickets.

Fanie de Villiers looked like a drunk hobo trying to moonwalk, but he was effective.

Sipamla just looks very ordinary.

I hope I’m wrong cos we need a few dark ones in the side to keep politicians happy. But he is a far cry away from any of our previous opening bowlers.

Dec 27, 2020, 10:13

Jarhead 

Must agree with you - there is more to be a good bowler than physical appearance and physical action.    Their needs to be an ability to work out the bowling according to individual batsman  phasing their bowling,

Fanie and Donald were masters in doing exactly that and to a lesser extend even the Pollocks  -  I went to see a test between SA and  Australia,   Barlow - who was not the top SA Bowler - was bowling at the Aussie captain - Ian Chappell  and the latter missed the balls three times,  Barlow took of his specs and walked over to him handing him the specs and offered it to him ,   The next ball he clean-bowled Chappell. 

I also remember the look on  Alan Border's  face when Adrian Kuyper clean-bowled him ion the SA-Aistralia game in the 1992 cricket world cup -utter shock and disbelieve.   

Both examples were not frontline bowlers - both did not have particularly good physical acttion - but they head the ability to understand and evaluate what the batsmen they phase shortcomings they had and concentrate on that.   

It is to a large extent missing from present bowlers and that us why the present bowlers are not as affective as they would otherwise has been.   

Dec 27, 2020, 11:04

Well bowled lutho. He looked so much better today. Well deserved 4 wickets.

Dec 27, 2020, 11:51

You ignorant twats

Dumb Mike is banging on about the likes of Fanie and Donald working out where to bowl to a bat - fuck me do you really think a 22 year old Donald was doing that or a 22 year old Steyn?

How fucking stupid are you, seriously?

Dec 27, 2020, 12:40

450 was a bridge too far but the guys did well to clean up the tail this morning.

Mike, you need to understand the value of a natural action. 

It's easier to add pace and accuracy to it. And in shorter format, bowlers with natural actions find it easier to bowl variations. 

Since we discussed Morkel previously - I'd suggest this, go back and watch Matthew Hoggard bowling. Bit of a Chubby guy but with a very natural action...unlike Morkel. Notice how his natural action allowed him to complete a delivery with his bowling hand on different sides of his body depeending on the type of swing he wanted to bowl. That was an adjustment that was suggested to him. His natural action made it easy for him to adapt. He did so and became a wonderful swing bowler. It's just an example and though he averaged 30, I think you get what I'm saying.

Kagiso and Lutho might become our hunting pair for the next decade...and both of them have the easiest of actions. And both are as rapid as it gets.

If there is someone you want to listen to when it comes to bowling it's Holding. The guy is never wrong when it comes to spotting bowling potential and talent.

Have some faith.

I assure you, both Smith and Boucher are very competent cricket minds.


Dec 27, 2020, 14:39

Still regretting them picking Elgar, Mike?

Dec 27, 2020, 16:22

It’s just so obvious watching Sipamla bowling that he has the raw ingredients to make a good test bowler.

If you don’t see that you don’t know the game

Same can be said of Markram as a bat

Dec 27, 2020, 18:18

And now Bavuma digs his heels in... 

Gotta love the little man.

Dec 28, 2020, 12:41

Bavuma is a mystery - elegant and has every shot in the book but never fulfilled his potential

Much like Prince, JP Duminy, Neil McKenzie and Jacques Rudolph

Dec 28, 2020, 12:54

He started too late Saffex.

...and when he did he only played tests, if I'm not mistaken. 

That's fine for bowlers but I think test batters need to play in the short format as well since it's tough to keep your level high with such large gaps between high level playing opportunities.

For me, if you're not good enough for ODIs and can't adapt then you're not good enough to play tests. 

I get that T20s are a nuisance and it's fine if there is a different team for that but the ODI and Test squad, particularly the batters, should be almost unchanged.

So...

Elgar

Aiden

Bavuma

Faf

All got runs and were all the players Mike said shouldn't play. 

Your predictions are cursed, Mike.

Dec 28, 2020, 14:44

SL under some pressure to produce now.

How they must long for their soft tracks where spinners can err without care. 

Another reason why Warne was such a master. He could make use of both dead and bouncing pitches equally. 

Dec 28, 2020, 16:07

Lol

Faf out on 199 ??

Dec 28, 2020, 23:42

As well as Elgar and Faf did we need to move on from these guys as they are old and have below standard test career averages

Rassie is not worth investing in, he is 31 and has a crap test average

There are too many talented young bats around to waste time on these 3

Dec 29, 2020, 01:19

"Rassie is not worth investing in, he is 31 and has a crap test average"

He has to go now.

Dec 29, 2020, 11:13

Rassie does not require investing in. 

He's one of those guys that came from provincial level already on standard for the international game.

Great bat speed and a solid technique. Guy immediately impressed with how decisively he went about batting.

We need hold-over players right now and he fits the bill as we draft in a few younger guys and wait for them to mature. 

Also, he can play both formats. 

Funny huh? Remember when we had Mako, Smith, Kallis, Ab and Amla as our top five?

All aside from McKenzie averaging around 50.



Dec 29, 2020, 11:20

Anyway, while consistency is always a paramount objective, I've always maintained that getting guys in at 27 is too late. Most of our really good players came into the Proteas in their early twenties. 

So, in essence, I agree with you guys. Just that we never seem to find the right moment to wipe the slate clean. I put it down to selectors and coaches looking out for themselves and their record rather than appearing a bit silly for a year or two while they wait for their investement to pay off.

Dec 29, 2020, 18:20

Crap Plum, Rassie’s technique is average and his test average is piss poor

He is a waste of time aged 31 - poor poor selection

Dec 29, 2020, 18:30

Perhaps he's not the greatest pick for that spot but I do understand the reasoning behind it.

What don't you like about his technique? I know it's not his back-lift or bat speed. 

Not in the V enough for you?

Dec 29, 2020, 21:02

No fluidity in his stroke play it looks so tentative and pedantic

Dec 30, 2020, 14:48

Haha funny how we can look at the same thing and see two different situations. 

For me, one of his strongest attributes is his decisiveness.

Amla in his prime had a similar bat speed to Rassie. However, Amla was more wristy and liked to cut, so looked less jerky, or lacking fluidity, as you put it.

Rassie plays the ball very late and right under his nose while preferring to hit down the ground. Perhaps that's why he looks less fluid? He gets through his shots more quickly so it looks a bit like a Chaplin movie.


Dec 30, 2020, 15:07

He seems to be ok in the shorter version of the game far more tentative in the longer where his flaws are easily exposed

He is a poor investment at test level. I see no point in investing in an average looking 32 year old who to date averages 32 after 9 innings

Surely v Tonder ahead of him is a more than obvious option - it’s a no brainer

I’d rather see a 21 year old v Tonder averaging 32 at test level and building

Dec 30, 2020, 17:34

I agree, Saffex.

Just that, to some degree, I understand his selection.

There are a couple of other 20-23 year-olds I'd prefer to start now. 

Especially given the current series and the level of opposition.

No doubt we'll put them in, for a debut, at the MCG. And then drop them for three years if they don't get big hundreds.

...it's our way. 

Dec 30, 2020, 18:16

So true Plum

It’s so obvious that v Tonder should be playing against an average SL side to blood him

So short sighted by Boucher and co

Jan 01, 2021, 10:26

All of Kallis, Amla and De Villiers had poor starts in their international career -  I think after 10 games Kallis' average score was about 15 runs - while I can still remember Amla in his first test in Australia where he looked totally clueless.   De Villiers also were not good in batting in his initial tests and shorter versions of the game.

All three had one thing in common - they were young with the necessary flair and talent to become greats - which all three became after initial questionable starts,  They were worth investigating in and there returns were marvelous.  

However, in recent times the Protea selection went awry and weird.   I was a Van der Dussen supporter for at least 5 years before he was selected and if he was brought in before Cook who came into the Proteas when in his early 30's - the latter was 36 when he was at last replaced - and for the Lions for years was an opening batsman.   He could have developed on international level and built a good career for himself and the Proteas.   That was not the case.   To start building a career on international level  when most players are already past their prime playing age is not realistic.

I think that since  2014 only De Kock and Rabada  - who were top class in the Under 19 WC - and on a slightly lower level  Markram and Ngidi - were real youngster selections.  Especially over the last  two years a number of over and near thirties players were picked, 

Dave is right - there are a number of talented youngsters who has ample development potential that should be brought into and used by the Proteas against especially weaker teams to enhance their self-believe and give them an opportunity to start and built with confidence their international careers.   

Of those the following forced their way into the squad already:-

*    Verreinne

*    Van Tonder 

*    Mulder

*    M Pretorius

Mulder was used in one test before and then got injured and was out of the game for a long time,   In his second test he was a really good all-rounder,   I see Mulder rather as a batting all-rounder and Pretorius as a bowling all-rounder, 

There is a number of other players Dave mentioned and  to his list I would add Sipamla and Coetzee - provided they get the right coaching..    With regard  to Sipamla one must remember that Steyn also had a horrid start in tests in Australia - but develop  afterwards to be the no 1 bowler in the world.

There  is one issue that bothers me about virtually all the older players who retired since  2013 and that is what I call the 6:1 factor. representing 6 sub-par batting performances and 1 good one.   After two years of that tendency Du Plessis and Elgar fell totally into the 6:1 factor category,   Will their next six innings be sub-par again?   I suspect the 6:1 factor will prevail.

       


 
You need to Log in to reply.
Back to top