What the F is JJ

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Feb 26, 2020, 15:14

Doing in the ODI squad to play Oz

He is shit he is out of his depth

Feb 26, 2020, 17:10

Agreed - that is why I highlighted him.   I think in general there are some movement on the renewal of the squad and am looking forward to the game on Saturday,  I think Smith and Boucher realized they are going nowhere  with the elderly - but I think there are a few other youngsters they can look at as well.   I would have included Coetzee ahead of Hendricks for instance.

   

Feb 26, 2020, 17:59

Yes there does appear to be some positive movement including Janneman and Verreyne but hanging onto Hendricks and Smuts is madness

Feb 27, 2020, 13:33

They are hanging on to Hendricks because he fulfills a political role.


He isnt great, but I'm not too offended by him being in the squad.

TB has really surprised me. Hope he continues to be a shining star.

Feb 27, 2020, 14:12

JJ will come good :)

Feb 27, 2020, 15:33

Odd... but i agree with DA again.

JJ may well be the man for the big occasion.

He looks like a fighter.



Feb 27, 2020, 16:11

Bullshit the guy looks technically flawed and has failed hopelessly - what’s the bloody point the guy is 31 move on

My guess is he won’t get a game and if he does and fails we will never see him again

He is shit

Feb 27, 2020, 16:54

Let's see Dave

If he succeeds and proves you wrong, then you can just apologise to everyone in writing here 

31 is still young.... it just means that he is 20 years younger than you, and he still has a good 5 years to give us, so relax dude

Feb 27, 2020, 16:59

Bullshit 31 is old when you are only trying to start an international career

Pathetic selection in my books and his performances have proved it

International cricket is a step too far for his skill set

Looks like a rabbit in the headlights when he bats

I’m a better off spinner than him and nearly 20 years older!!

Mar 03, 2020, 08:04

Spot-on Dave. How on earth can they kick start an international career at age 31.

It's dumb.....no not stupid, just dumb.

I'll have a 31 year in my side if he'd done the rounds, ideally would have one world cup under his belt and is one of the rocks in my side.

Mar 03, 2020, 20:49

Exactly Denny and to add insult to injury Smuts looks way out of his depth and I see he is going to India as well

Bloody madness

Mar 09, 2020, 07:44

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Feb 27, 2020, 14:12

JJ will come good :)

Mar 09, 2020, 20:13

JJ Smuts shows up the predictable hysterical cricket  youth brigade on this string....second most Proteas’ runs  in the series behind Klaasen. And JJ only played in 2 of the 3 ODIs.


Mar 09, 2020, 20:30

No Mozart - one decent score made when there was no pressure does not take away from the fact that he is a slow batsman unsuitable to play in the shorter versions of the game.  He ill never make the grade in any other international team and definitely is a poor section in the Protea squad,   Both Snyman and Ackerman has better performances records on franchise levels and that makes his selection a joke,  

He is  lucky he got some game time on internasal level and is not in the international squad game for the future and is unlikely to be in the squads later this year,   The first game he nearly list the game with an ultra-slow strike rate - but that did  not count according to you.   He was lucky that Malan, Klaasen and Miller could make up and eliminate his deficiency,               

Mar 09, 2020, 21:55


300x.8571=257.13 and 257.13>254......do you understand or do I have to explain it to you?

Mar 09, 2020, 22:08

That os no answer to may statement that Smuts is not a suitable future player, 

Mar 09, 2020, 22:47

No.....your statement that Smuts is not a suitable player because of the strike rate is pure Moronish. I repeat:



300x.8571=257.13 and 257.13>254......do you understand or do I have to explain it to you?

Mar 10, 2020, 02:50

Smuts is shit

Mar 10, 2020, 05:43

Saffex

The idiotic Mozart ever take into account facts,  When Australia scored 271 runs in the 2nd ODI SA was required to score at 5,42 rpo representing a strike rate of about 90 Smuts was batting at a strike rate of 64.   In the other ODI's he played in his strike rates varied between 63 and 82.

On the whole Smits strike rate in all 5 games he played in was 78.7 which means a run rate of 4.72 runs in every 6 balls faced,    Whereas a score of  5 per over in ODI's is below par nowadays  and the realistic rate required is normally more or less 5.5 runs per 6 balls faced Smuts strike rate is way below par.   The required run rate of between 85 to 90 is what is to be expected from a batsman.

Even in his last game his strike rate was 83 it was still way below the required rate and the difference was made up by Verreinne - strike rate 100, Klaasen - strike rate 99 and Miller - strike rate 112.   In that  ODI the required strike rate was 88 - Smuts' contribution was 83 - his best in all games played,   .           

Mar 10, 2020, 05:52

Even in his last game where his strike rate was 83 it was still way below the required rate....says Wanker.

Ag  siestog, he still doesn’t get it, even though I gave him the facts below:

300x.8571=257.13 and 257.13>255...do you understand or do I have to explain it to you?


.....

So it’s obviously too complicated for your pea brain. The Proteas had to score 255 runs to win and they had 300 balls to do it. That means each ball has to yield on average 0.85 runs. And each ball to Smuts yielded on average 0.8571 runs.


So no simpleton, there was no problem with Smuts’ run rate. Considering the  dismissals of  Malan and also Ock at a run rate below Smuts.....he had a job to do consolidating the innings. Which he did while still scoring at the required run rate.


I point  this out not because I think Smuts is a great new find, but because I can’t accept   the abject rubbish and lies you produce all the time.

Mar 10, 2020, 07:39

"he had a job to do consolidating the innings."

Yep, incredibly simple logic applied here

Mar 10, 2020, 08:59

I expect the Chinese dominance to continue in the upcoming world table tennis championships.

Sure there's more of a challenge from the Europeans, Taiwan and Japan this time round as compared to the last world cup but it's not a big enough challenge to crack the Chinese stranglehold.

A pity really knowing the results are going to be one sided....still we can only hope.

Go Liam Pitchford!

Mar 10, 2020, 11:00

Mozart

You try and manipulate the figures to get away from the real issue - namely the actual strike rate. ,  The fact is the average strike rate of Smuts was 78 in all matches played and  in the other case where he made 41 runs - his other significant run-score - Smuts' strike rate was 64.   

It will never hit home in your case - since you do not understand the importance of strike rates in batting in the shorter versions of the game.  


Mar 10, 2020, 11:25

Smuts helped us win the Australian ODI series, period.... with bat and ball

Some might not like that statement, but I don't care

Am I saying that he is the saviour to our problems..... no, not at all, not even in the slightest

A lot of what I have posted about him lately has been tongue in cheek, hoping that he proves me wrong, but for fucks sake people..... give the man some fucking credit at least

Sheeesh, some of you are so quick to just put any player down

Mar 10, 2020, 11:56

Smuts is shit, made runs when Oz only had one decent bowler, was clueless in the first two ODI’s regardless of making 40 odd in the 2nd one thanks to being out on 17 but saved by a no ball.

Against quality attacks his limitations are exposed

Mar 10, 2020, 11:58

DA I gave him credit for scoring runs - but in the second ODI against Australia his strike rate was way too low,  We won that game despite him - Malan, Klaasen and Miller needed to up their strike rates massively to ensure a win by the Proteas,  If Smuts batted for another 5 overs we would have lost the game.

In the end his batting in the third ODI was also below the required strike rate - but he did up his strike rate somewhat towards the end of his batting,   So give him credit for the last game - but for the rest he was really no good.        

Mar 10, 2020, 12:03

Mike you are far too hung up on strike rates - that’s not the defining aspect of a bat - yes it’s important but not in the way you judge it

Mar 10, 2020, 12:15

Well there I agree with you Dave

You have to look at the context of what happens in any specific game to understand the strike rates... because each game's different scenarios will mostly always dictate the pace and strike rate of the batters.... simple really


Mar 10, 2020, 12:29

Exactly - clearly given the target was not that high there was no need for our bats to be worried about strike rates

Mar 10, 2020, 13:15

Dave

If you take into account what happened in all shorter versions of the game to SA teams in the WC and subsequently in all subsequent games - there were two main  contributors to the losses namely -

*   inadequate runs scored by SA batsmen; and even when they did score runs.

*   inadequate strike rates.   

I appreciate that in cases where the batsmen did score runs too many of the losses resulted from below par strike rates,   Maybe I put too much emphasis on that aspect, but I pointed this out to Mozart as an inadequacy on the part of Smuts to equal the required strike rates set by the opposition.

To put it bluntly - until Smuts went out I gave up the second ODI as lost,   When he went out the recovery by Malan, Klaasen and Miller saved the game for SA,                     

Mar 10, 2020, 14:31

Michael

If Smuts had gone for some very stupid big hit to increase his overall strike rate, and got out, you would be nailing him for that now

He did exactly and precisely what was needed from him.... at that time.... in that specific and individual game scenario...….nothing more, nothing less

Mar 10, 2020, 15:22

Dave you say he was clueless in the first two ODIs. Well he scored 41 in the second ODI and he wasn’t even playing in the first ODI....perhaps we need more clueless players.


Let’s be honest if he was 23 years old ....the youth axis would be highly enthusiastic about him.

Mar 10, 2020, 16:45

Lol @ moz

Mar 10, 2020, 17:38

Disagree Moz he looks out of his depth.

Shit sorry it was the T20’s he was so shit in not the first ODI

In the second he was out on 17 but got a reprieve thanks to a no ball. Point is he was beaten by good bowling and failed

Mar 10, 2020, 19:36

How many balls did he face to make the 41 runs stupid?   He faced 65 balls -which was a potential match-loser,    That is a problem people do not always realize,   By doing what he did endangered the other batsmen who were forced to hit out at balls they should not hit out against, 

I will say clearly - Mozart is too stupid to understand that deficiency  and what pressure it place in the batter's teammates.  If the Proteas lost the second ODI the only player to be blamed for the loss would have been Smuts.  He faced 21,7% of all the balls bowled in that ODI and made 15.07% pf the runs scored.   At a strike rate of 64 players lose more matches than they would ever win.                

Mar 10, 2020, 19:36

How many balls did he face to make the 41 runs stupid?   He faced 65 balls -which was a potential match-loser,    That is a problem people do not always realize,   By doing what he did endangered the other batsmen who were forced to hit out at balls they should not hit out against, 

I will say clearly - Mozart is too stupid to understand that deficiency  and what pressure it place in the batter's teammates.  If the Proteas lost the second ODI the only player to be blamed for the loss would have been Smuts.  He faced 21,7% of all the balls bowled in that ODI and made 15.07% of the runs scored.   At a strike rate of 64 players lose more matches than they would ever win.                

Mar 11, 2020, 00:46

Building towards the next ODI World Cup the following players would not make my current squad, JJ Smuts, Faf Du Plessis and Rassie Van Der Dussen. 

Other no no's are Beuran Hendricks, Reeza Hendricks and Shamsi.


Mar 11, 2020, 00:56

Disagree. The next ODI World Cup is more than 3 years away and we need to build winning habits as well as building players. A few mature guys in the mix will help the youngsters succeed. A team of players under 28, who are also always in form is a pipe dream.

Without Willie, Flouw, the Beast and Vermeulen  the Boks don’t win the WC.

Mar 11, 2020, 01:00

You are 100% correct Denny - those are never to be considered.      

Mar 11, 2020, 01:00

Mozart

And those experienced guys should be Smuts and Faf? 

Distortion of performances in the RWC  especially with Louw and Willie is just the type of things you come up with,   Louw NEVER in key games was in the starting line-ups and was just a dirt tracker - Willie on some games were 50:50,  Vermeulen was not  the key player you made him out to be and only Beast was an essential.   The players identified by experts who were  key in the WC victory has virtually all been belittled by you.

I love the following quote from you:-

"I point  this out not because I think Smuts is a great new find, but because I can’t accept   the abject rubbish and lies you produce all the time"

I cannot believe you ever gave a more  accurate description of your own modus operandi on site,                  

Mar 11, 2020, 01:15

Well of course you disagree.

Mar 11, 2020, 02:47

Agreed Denny I would not include any of the players you listed

The only possibility is Rassie in ODI’s but with Klassen and Bavuma coming through I’d not really bother

Markram will return shortly, he is back playing domestic cricket and has two hundreds to his name in a short space of time and by all accounts wants to start from scratch as an international player

Thankfully we have found two young bats in Janneman and Verreynne - we need to see them both included in the test side as well

Mar 11, 2020, 12:25

May i enter this debate:

"The only possibility is Rassie in ODI’s but with Klassen and Bavuma coming through I’d not really bother"


Saffex, Rassie has been our shining beacon this season... he should be more than just a possibility.


JJ Smuts -

He's a guy that will average around the 30 - 33 mark. BUT what he brings is grit and hard nosed attitude He's the kind of guy that will teeter along scoring 10 and 20 and 30... but will get us over the mark in a final. So i'd keep him in the team. Remeber a ceertain J Cronje who averaged about 35 with the bat and about 35 with the ball.... thats the kind of player (not captain) that JJ is.


Bavuma -

Shit I like him a lot. I think his issue in tests is psychological. He can't seem to concentrate for extended periods and gets flustered if he isnt seeing bat on ball. I hope he comes right because he could become the poster boy for cricket like Kolisi is for rugby.

Smuts strike rate -

Whoever questions it, is pathetic! has it costed us in any way? He can score incredibly quickly... but he is wiser than you guys who question him. Why does he need to score at a run a ball if the required rate is only 5.5? Its all about pacing your innings, much like Amla did throughout his career.


Upcoming talent -

We are seeing the end of an era. When Faf retires, it is the startof a brand new Protea era.

Bring on our next batch of wonderful talent...

MArkram will come right. He is a wonderful player who is slowly regaining some form.

Rabada - needs no mention

Ngidi - needs no mention

Qdk - Needs no mention

Bavuma - too talented to ignore

Klaasen, Rassie, Malan (J), Vereeyne, Hamza are all batsmen who will succeed.

Sipamla - Give him some time. He looks like he has good control and a lovely classical action


New players that will come into the mix:


Ryan Rickleton - Batsman

Grant Roelofsen - batsman

Jonno Bird - Batting allrounder - My pick of the bunch

Jannie Ackermann - Batting allrounder

Wiaan Mulder - Too good not to come right - Bat 7, bowl 2nd or 3rd change at a good pace

Bryce Parsons - Batting all rounder. Not the brightest spark... though he is our U19 captain, but the boy can bat. Reminds me of QdK a bit (also same Alumni.. along with G Smith). All KES old boys and all left handed dominating batsmen.

Gerald Coetzee - Very quick and a good hard hitting batsman

van Tonder - Good hard batsman

Josh Richards - Possibly our answer to our top order woes, but needs to find consistency

Our cricket is also now in much better hands.

As with the start of any new era, it will take a season or two to get us back in order.

Nothing beats experience.


And especially for Saffex...

Remember the name Slade van Staden. Google him.



Mar 11, 2020, 13:04

You left out Hamza and Verreynne

van Tonder the SA u19 player from a year ago is another good bat

Coetzee the quick bowler for the U19 is another

Our best all rounder in Andile

Mulder has been all promise and zero productivity

Breetske is another good looking opener but needs to improve his first class stats to be taken seriously

Joshua Richards is another good young bat with a first class average of over 50

As for Smuts - no thanks I’d bin him he is taking up valuable space

Mar 11, 2020, 13:47

Hi Saffex

One or two very valid points.

I'll add the ones i agree with to my list above


Andile is one that I may disagree on. He's a useful and resourceful bowler in ODI's and a capable hitter who may win us a game or 2 in his career with the bat. But thats where it ends in my opinion.


Breetske will be a Protea one day, but i quesrtion his temprement.


PS: all of my comments come from watching either live or on the tele... but not from just reading.

Mar 11, 2020, 16:12

Disagree on Andile

He is a handy enough bowler but a talented bat, given his technique.

Batting is where he can improve given his natural ability but that is not going to happen in the shorter format of the game given he comes in at 7 so is always going to be on the chase.

His greatest strength is his head, he is a fighter with big BMT which will go a long way especially considering he looks so good with bat in hand.

We should invest in him in the test side batting at 7 and being our 5th bowler. In tests he has more time to work on building an innings

Mar 11, 2020, 19:07

FD

There is another guy ho played for the SA Invitation Side against England and  was outstanding by the name of Snyman,   I would add him to your list.  

Denny mentioned a guy by the name of Groenewald - I searched all the potential websites and found nothing,   Knows anything about him?     

I beg to differ from you about strike rates,   Those are very important in the shorter versions of the game.   That is why the ODI and T20I squads of most countries differs from their test side.   I regard Kallis as one of the greatest players ever in respect of test batting - but as an ODI batsman he was a flop because of his way below par batting strike rate.   Scoring at a rate of 4 runs or below in shorter versions of the game lose too many matches,   The last ODI Kallis played in he scored 50 runs from 90 balls faced and the Proteas lost badly against Pakistan.  He and Graeme Smith were the main reasons why the game was lost.            

Mar 11, 2020, 19:52


300x.8571=257.13 and 257.13>255......do you understand or do I have to explain it to you?

Mar 11, 2020, 21:50

@Saffex:

" He is a handy enough bowler but a talented bat, given his technique."

I'll agree when we see him scoring runs at a decent average.

At the moment, in 57 first class innings, he's got an average of 21 with zero hundreds.is

1st class bowling record aint too bright either.

Mar 11, 2020, 22:36

His ODI average is 30 that tells me enough about his potential along with the fact he is a good looking bat technically

Mar 12, 2020, 09:39

FD

I still think that Snyman (batsman) and Tait (bowler) should be added to your list of players you indicated  above/   They were very good in the SA Invitational side that played the English  and is excellent of franchise level as well.  

Mar 12, 2020, 15:53

Mike Besides the odd game here and there, They hardly play franchise cricket. Most of their games have been for the amateur teams. Let’s see how they fare first at franchise level for a season.

Mar 12, 2020, 19:13

No FD

Snyman plays full time for the Knights and Stefan Tait for the Warriors.  That is why they were in the SA Invitation side to play the English team.      Here is the profile of Snyman:-

Batting and fielding averages

Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 4s 6s Ct St
First-class 23 42 1 1855 209 45.24 2447 75.80 4 11 263 15 7 0
List A 32 31 2 1162 135 40.06 1013 114.70 4 5 134 42 13 0
T20s 17 16 0 270 117 16.87 179 150.83 1 0 29 12 4 0

Does not look like the odd game here and there,  I will check on Tait's particulars as well.   


Mar 12, 2020, 20:31

Mike When teams play for their semi pro sides ie: border, Boland, SWD, nirtherns, Easterns, free state, north west etc... It all counts as first class games.

That’s why the system is so flawed.

Both snyman and tait played for the semi pro sides. But still counts as first class.

Mar 12, 2020, 23:36

Then I must be really surprised.   Both plays regularly for their home sides (Knights and Warriors)  and in their last five game both played in very game.   How did they manage to get into the SA Invitation side to play England when they did not do that,   Both did very well against an International team.   In the case of the 3 day game - it ended in a draw - in the case of the50 overs match the English won one and the SA team one.

Sorry - but I do not agree with you here, 

     

Mar 13, 2020, 10:06

Mike

Jacques Snyman - 

Has recently played a lot of limited overs crickert for the Knights. He has done decently. However MOST of his 1st class cricket has been for Northern Cape. We can not proclaim to have found a wonderful talent who is almost 26 years old, but featured MOSTLY for Northern Cape.


Stefan Tait - 

Looks like he has some talent. I agree with you. BUT, much like Snyman, has recently played a lot of limited overs cricket for the Warriors. However MOST of his 1srt class cricket has been for Eastern Cape. His 1st class bowling average is 43! 


I am not disputing that they have talent and yes Tait did do well against the touring Poms.


BUT, that hardly qualifies them YET (and i repeat YET) for the list above.

Mar 13, 2020, 10:53

Your summary is totally contradicted by the performances of Tait and Snyman against the English team.   They faced world class bowlers and batsmen and proof their value.   They did better than most of the SA batsmen and bowlers did against the English and that to my mind says a lot.

I would definitely have Elgar replaced as opening batsman by Snyman in the team and definitely have  Tait ahead of Hendricks and  Patterson.   

In any event - nothing is better for any team than having to be competitive so as to ensure team selection and there are plenty players competing for the limited number of positions available at present.

The past year represented the worst in squad and team selection and the fact that Janneman Malan and Verreinne came through is already an advancement,   Elgar, Du Plessis and Smuts are still bad news and I would never regard Van der Dussen as a longer term prospect due to his age and what happens to older players with age becoming a factor in execution.   That said - he should have been in the Proteas squad for years now - but never was because of the quota selection system.

The latter being said - I see dark days for the Proteas ahead.  There are no real top class players of colour  coming through and the team would be weakened if they sect nondescript players ahead of competent ones.                  

Mar 13, 2020, 11:01

"Your summary is totally contradicted by the performances of Tait and Snyman against the English team"

Stats speak louder than words Mike. A 1st class bowling average of 43 isn't vert flattering though.

Lets hope they can perform for their respective franchises at first class level so that they can be added to the list above soon.


 
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