Bolton is a mixed bag in terms of his opinions but there is so much BS about negotiating an end to this war, his opinion piece here is surprisingly on point. Islamic extremism is not just fueled by perceived slights by the West, it’s fueled by winning . ISIS and Al-Qaeda were diminished by their defeats. If Iran comes out of this confrontation as a winner, look out.
Can we end this war now? Thanks, it is causing the fuel prices to go up. Energy is the only commodity that is an input in any form of trade, so it is impacting the global economy.
Bolton is a dolt. He is a war monger, like many of the American politicians. Possibly even on the payroll of the Israel lobbyists.
LOL America.
The Dildo of consequence...it rarely comes lubbed!
The dildo of consequence….sorry to hear that, when did you start experiencing these issues?
About the time I had to start pulling it out of your arse and had to hand you the Vaseline.
SB
You are a dolt. You ae a war monger, like many of the American politicians in Uraine, Anyone believing Iran should be allowed their merry way to cntnue building niclear arms - carry on with terrorism in foreign countries - being involved in civil wars - with theologicalanatics in charge - must be a s dumb as Newsom and Rooinek.
Oh dear, a little bit of crude anger from the Mick….but you do sound like an expert in that area, a bent Mick?
Consequences... interesting..."allies" backing the wrong horse here.
Here we go again . . .
For Bozo, for Mozart, for the corporates, the Jewish lobby . . . it's all about profit and loss.
If it makes financial sense then it's justified. Everything is transactional.
I've never felt that way at any stage in my life. I'm more of a "money is the root of all evil" person.
There's a lot more to it than just profit and loss.
This war is not just a generating a huge global loss and possibly a global recession, it's also inciting levels of religious intolerance I've seldom seen in my lifetime.
So much winning!
Oh dear, a little bit of crude anger from the Mick….but you do sound like an expert in that area, a bent Mick?
Oh now I get the obsession you have with me...lol...think you need a new therapist.
Consequences... interesting..."allies" backing the wrong horse here.
Now the sheer lack of self awareness here by yourself and the writer of this article is astounding.
Europeans have a point that Mr. Trump didn’t consult them before he began this round of bombing with Israel. He’s also been high-handed with Europe over Greenland, and with the world on his unilateral tariffs. A more conventional U.S. President would have done more to cultivate personal ties with leaders who could help smooth over rough political moments. Mr. Trump always prefers the U.S. power flex, which is no doubt grating on European sensibilities.
Oh it was mere high-handiness was it, oh that's all it was was it.?
Lets run the clock back, since Trump's inauguration.
He's put massive tariffs on the EU, out of all proportion to the tariffs Europe had in place on US tariffs.
He signed a trade deal with the UK. he reigned on it.
He tried to humiliate and brow beat a European leader Zelenskyy into accepting a terrible deal for his country, and has continued to pressure Zelenskyy into accepting unfavourable term, while remaining on friendly terms with Putin, the man who is waging war with a European state that's killed tens of thousands of Ukrainian's.
The Trump administration has tried to cut Europe out of the loop when negotiating with Russia.
The US stop providing aid to Ukraine and started to charge for it. Then added a 10% mark up.
The Trump temporarily stop providing Ukraine with intelligence and temporarily turned off some weapons system.
The Trump administration has threatened economic consequences if the EU tries to regulate tech in EU territories.
US politician's up to and including Trump have made repeated and derogatory claims about Europe, on topics such as crime, immigration and civilization collapse.
Members of the Trump administration have actively interfered in the in the internal politics of European countries, publicly expressing support and backing both far right and anti EU parties.
Trump has lied and claimed the EU was founded to screw the US over.
The US administration has sanctioned European citizens for no doing no more than their job in pursing legal proceedings against Israel.
The US has threatened to take over Greenland a European territory.
Trump has insulted European leaders.
Trump has insulted European military and their war dead who died fighting in America's wars.
The US has started a war with Iran, without consulting Europe but doing so knowing they were against such action. That consequences of such action will hurt Europe ecnomically and benefit it's enemy Russia.
Trump, bragged that the US didn't need Europe's help with Iran, then changed his mind.
Trump has threatened to cut off all trade with Spain for them voicing disapproval of US actions against Iran.
Iran wasn't the tipping point where Europe turned it's back on the US, it was Greenland, this just reinforces it. The European calculus is that they tried placating Trump and it got us nowhere, he can't be trusted, he just keeps coming back for more and he's going keep on doing random mad shit every couple of months, that's usually not in out interests. And as European politicians are starting to discover, standing up to Trump is popular with the public.
The tragedy of this Western division is that the real winners are Iran, Russia and China. They’re working together to defeat the U.S. in the Gulf and weaken American deterrence.
The sheer f**king stupidity of this sentence, who created the division you dimwit hack...take responsibility for your actions.
If Iran emerges with a veto over Strait of Hormuz oil flows, and U.S. credibility is damaged, Mr. Trump will be hurt.
Hate to say it, but if might be a good thing if Trump is hurt by this because if it causes him to lose the house and maybe even the senate in the mid terms and he ends up a lame duck President for his last two years, well that might be a good thing for the world at large as the man is unhinged. American credibility can recover after it elects a President who isn't insane and demonstrates to the world its love affair with MAGA is over and it's never coming back.
But the bigger losers in the long run will be countries that depend on American power to deter aggressors. See Ukraine 2014 and 2022, and Gaza 2023.
Almost sounds like a threat doesn't it...come bail us out in Hormuz or we will cut aid to Ukraine to spite you.
"Now the sheer lack of self awareness here by yourself and the writer of this article is astounding."
Yes, from your lefty POV... we'll see how concerned the US is under Trump the next time Europe has some sort of issue that doesn't really concern the US ... interesting how Zelensky seems eager to help Trump's effort...the problem with Iran is the very same problem with Russia in Ukraine and requires an combined solution ... Zelensky gets it, Europe either doesn't or doesn't care.
While Zelensky realizes that ‘military support’ from the Theme Park is an oxymoron.
The sheer f**king stupidity of this sentence, who created the division you dimwit hack...take responsibility for your actions.
The er dimwit hack is the editor of the Wall Street Journal, a very respected journalist, who has generally been critical of Trump……and you are a…..well let’s just leave it that. I posted the Bolton comment under the wrong string, and poor old Anger got himself foul-hooked
Yes, from your lefty POV... we'll see how concerned the US is under Trump the next time Europe has some sort of issue that doesn't really concern the US ... interesting how Zelensky seems eager to help Trump's effort...the problem with Iran is the very same problem with Russia in Ukraine and requires an combined solution ... Zelensky gets it, Europe either doesn't or doesn't care.
Very funny. As usual, a lot to say about such short comments as they come with dense liberal behaviours.
First, the attribution of a line of thought to a group, one must be that or this to think that. No connection with the immediate surroundings; a group is put between a person and their surroundings. Classical liberal.
Second, absence of cohesion. Another liberal classic. On this board, Trump's effort to bring oil prices down was associated to an effort to starve the Russian economy. And notice how this key event is being ignored by liberals on this board: war against Iran has caused an increased demand for russian oil (the long list of grievances toward Trump does not include it when it is a key factor) Russia even boasted that their oil was in steep demand and that was before Trump made the move to unilaterally dissolves restrictions on russian oil purchases. Which is a major blow on the EU strategy. Trump has juiced up Russian economy.
Third, no, Russia containment is a US problem first and foremost. Still is a problem. Europe is split in this regard, certain members of the EU are adamantly against Russia when others are not.
Fourth, no. The liberal dude from Ukraine expresses the same concern as he did when the attempted genocide in Gazza. Diversion of resources available for his conflict against Russia. Any patriot missile sent to liberal Israel is one that can not be sent to Ukraine. This liberal dude is consistent on this. He got reinsurance from the EU that his conflict will not go backstage. While his conflict is very unlikely to reach the level of ignorance the conflict in Congo is given by liberals, which remains the gold standard for this, His position has not changed: he does want no other conflict to dwarf his own conflict.
It is very funny. Liberals accusing each other of sadism. It shows.
The article is a typical liberal exercise of absence of thinking debauchery. This liberal guy knows he can write being unopposed so he feels no constraints to write a completely self contradictory piece and shifting the burden of its resolution on Europe. There are so many contradictions in this article and that is the power of a liberal mind to be able to walk through them without blinking.
European countries are toast, decades of denying their own best self interests to align with the US have led them to that point. It is over for them, all what they are left with is to vent their frustration and helplessness on migrants, muslims and non white people. They are all they are left with.
European countries are surely sliding to the wrong side of liberalism and they are terrified by it.
Yes, from your lefty POV... we'll see how concerned the US is under Trump the next time Europe has some sort of issue that doesn't really concern the US ... interesting how Zelensky seems eager to help Trump's effort...the problem with Iran is the very same problem with Russia in Ukraine and requires an combined solution ... Zelensky gets it, Europe either doesn't or doesn't care.
Europe is under attack and he's already largely bailed on us...exploiting us for cash and trying to force through a peace deal that undermines Europe's security.
Zelensky's helping him because he wants to see if helping Trump here and now with the situation will result in Trump taking a more pro Ukrainian side in the negotiations.
Iran and Russia are not the same problem, Iran was not actively attacking anyone, there was no evidence presented that it was about to attack anyone, the opposite in fact, that they where making concessions in negotiations. Russia on the other hand was and still is actively engaging in the large scale and brutal invasion of Ukraine resulting in hundreds of thousands of deaths.
Iran is a war of choice for America, if America was attacked Europe would be there as it was after 9/11, but we are not getting dragged into another clusterf*** for that idiot.
The US caused this mess, it can take responsibility for it and it can fix it.
While Zelensky realizes that ‘military support’ from the Theme Park is an oxymoron.
Over the course of the Ukraine war...European military support has been essential, without it Ukraine would fallen long ago. Zelenskyy knows this and is grateful for the support, it's Europe just doesn't doesn't constantly go around demanding to be thanked for it every five minutes. If you actually followed the war closely you would know that in some weapons categories European weapons have out performed their US equivalents. Meanwhile European military companies stocks have soared over the last year, vastly outperforming their US counterparts, as long term contracts are signed and locked in to cope with the massive surge in demand. Hell when it comes to naval capacity in the last two years Europe have launched more naval vessels and submarines than either the US or China and also are in the process of building more than the US and have more on orders. And if that's not enough for you, Europe under British command has formed JEF a coalition of 10 nations (with a 11th expected to join it this year)....or Joint Expeditionary Force for the purpose of the defence of the North Atlantic,, Greenland, and it's got enough tonnage, personal and firepower to defend it from any likely attacker (other than the USA). So again you talk crap about another topic you know nothing about.
The er dimwit hack is the editor of the Wall Street Journal, a very respected journalist, who has generally been critical of Trump……and you are a…..well let’s just leave it that.
His article was still twaddle.
The key issue is that naval power is not measured by number of ships.
?? A single US aircraft carrier (~100,000 tons) outweighs dozens of patrol vessels combined in strategic impact.
The claim about submarines is especially questionable.
?? Europe is not outbuilding the US in nuclear submarines, which are the most strategically important.
…..
Perhaps if you understood what you read, you wouldn’t be embarrassed again. I’m supposed to be nicer to you, but how about you stop saying things like ‘if you actually followed the war’. That just forces me to school you again. I take no particular pleasure in it, I would far rather have a civil debate,
Is the above AI generated? Be so nice as to point it out…what counts for one, should count for all.
Apologies, I thought that was self evident.
Stav, I don't even know where to start...so many assumptions and opinions stated as fact...maybe Zelensky knows more than you think...time will tell.
Do you guys remember me requesting that we don't use AI here?
I still think that.
.so many assumptions and opinions stated as fact...maybe Zelensky knows more than you think...time will tell.
Oh, no, the liberal from Ukraine stated many times his concerns. And the meeting he had with various European leaders and their pledge not to let the Ukrainian conflict fall in the background was made visible.
The key issue is that naval power is not measured by number of ships.
?? A single US aircraft carrier (~100,000 tons) outweighs dozens of patrol vessels combined in strategic impact.
The claim about submarines is especially questionable.
?? Europe is not outbuilding the US in nuclear submarines, which are the most strategically important.
By all mean's carry on rebutting a strawman argument...let me know when your done.
Perhaps if you understood what you read, you wouldn’t be embarrassed again. I’m supposed to be nicer to you, but how about you stop saying things like ‘if you actually followed the war’. That just forces me to school you again. I take no particular pleasure in it, I would far rather have a civil debate,
I can just see you sitting at the end of the dinner table with all your family and friends in attendance typing furiously away on your phone responding to me. Then you suddenly shout out...honey...honey I did it...I schooled that silly Mick Irishman again...aren't I brilliant, before your better half gets up and starts patting you on the head like a seal...oh that's wonderful dear, aren't you're such a smart little man, you're the smartest, your the smartest...yes you are!...and then puts a little gold star on your collar...before turning to the rest of the guests, rolling her eyes and whispering...just play along with it...it makes him happy.
My wife, were she still alive, would more likely have punched me in the nose if I did that, rather than behaving in that simpering fashion.
Sorry to hear about your wife's passing...I can't recall you ever mentioning it before.
She would of punched you...sounds like I would have liked her. Sorry to hear she's no longer with you.
Thanks Stav and Draad. She was showing some unusual symptoms, we thought it might have been a light stroke. When the MRI came back it was an incurable brain tumor. I told the doctor I would tell her myself and when I did she quietly said the bravest thing I ever heard…..’what a pity’.
And that was how she handled this terrible thing, passing after 18 months, leaving us all an example of grace and courage.
When was this Moz?...the things we carry with us without telling a soul...
It started in late 2020. There are many more cool stories I prefer to dwell on, maybe some time I’ll write a little piece on that.
Mozart, sincere condolences. Like the others, I had no idea. I can only imagine your grief.
Cheers mate.
"The dildo of consequence….sorry to hear that, when did you start experiencing these issues?"
epic burn!!!
hahaha
Very sorry to read that, Moz
My condolences. She sounds like a brave and graceful lady.
Exactly the type of woman I'd imagine you with.
One struggles to even imagine a loss like that.
Really very saddened but also, if I'm honest, a little pissed you didn't tell us.
Mozart, sincere condolences
We all keep things private until we get the right moment to share...
Moz, my sincere condolences.
Thank you to all of you for those kind thoughts….we may disagree about many things but not the important human things. I have a granddaughter and 3 college friends arriving tonight for Spring break, it won’t be dull!
I am very Sorry for your loss, Moz.
So sorry to hear that you had to go through that Moz, I had no idea at all, my condolences
I currently have a family member going through a very long and difficult illness, and she is nearing the end of it now..
Knowing what is coming, certainly doesn't make it any easier at all when it finally happens
These are the moments when you realize what really is important in day to day life
Looking forward to those cool moments and funny stories you referred to.....
Oh Mozart, I’m so sorry to hear of your loss.
You’ve clearly been through a lot over the past few years.
Thanks so much M, DA, Becs…so I’ll tell the story of how we got married. I had just finished undergraduate at UCT and arranged a job in the States, with the plan of moving on to a US MBA. In other words I was leaving permanently.
Then 3 weeks before I was due to leave I met my wife. We instantly connected in a way I hadn’t experienced before. I was in love for the first time in my life….corny, but true.
Still I was an overly serious young bloke and felt I had a commitment so I got on the ship which was a cargo ship carrying just a few passengers. Immediately we sailed out of Table Bay I asked myself what I was doing. Chances are we wouldn’t meet again.
After a short time at sea I decided this was a mistake. So without any sense of what the end game was, I got off the ship at Walvis Bay and caught a train to Windhoek.
So there I was in the heart of Africa, on a train traveling through the Namib desert, with no real plan, just a sense of something that needed to be finished. The countryside looked like a scene out of Lawrence of Arabia. I eventually caught a plane at Windhoek and arrived back at CT late in the afternoon.
My wife was an actress with a leading part in a play that was running at the time. So I wandered over to the theatre and got a seat in the audience. Those days I was pretty much an every day surfer, so my mop of hair was bleached white.
One of my wife’s friends said to her…..’Moz’ is in the audience….she apparently said ‘you’re silly he’s on a boat to America’. But of course we met after the play and just spent time together for a few days. After a while, two days, we decided it was serious. And we should give it a go and if it didn’t work out, at least we would have no regrets.
Two weeks later we were married and three weeks after that we sailed on the mail ship to England. On our wedding night my wife was still in the play, so I went off with some friends and had a few beers. There was no time to order a wedding dress and the costume staff at the play created her an outrageous wedding ensemble.
To my parents credit they smiled in the wedding photographs and my wife’s mother did say to her ‘you hardly know the man’, but she was a good sport as well.
On the ship over to Southampton a few things became clearer, I discovered my wife was an excellent poker player ….
Nice story Moz. You've never struck me as an impulsive person but it sounds like your impulse to get off the ship was a good one.
Wow, Mozart….you clearly knew she was the one.
What a lovely story.
Brilliant story Moz..... super cool dude
Great story, Moz.
Agree with Rooi in that I've never imagined you to be impulsive. Certainly, tuning back once you had already set sail took massive balls. Good job!!!
I don't pay much attention to this section anymore as the politics shit grinds my nuts, but I'm glad I opened this on a whim. Great to hear some behind the scenes life stuff from you guys. First Rooi, now Moz.
Guess we're all waiting on a heartwarmer from Trad now.
Best decision I ever made but it was such a spur of the moment thing. When I look at my granddaughter and her pals with me at the moment, so certain that this is the ordained reality. Just one of many possible realities.
The Brontë sisters, Boris Pasternak who wrote Dr Zhivago, the director of Waterloo Bridge, Robbie Burns, Shelley, all the other Romantics and even the Beatles have allowed us to indulge our emotional selves. There are ‘thoughts that often lie too deep for tears’….it’s probably healthy to express that sometimes.
Moz my friend I’m so sorry to hear of your loss. I know it was a few years back but there is no true healing from losing ones soul mate and your story tells me she was just that
It reduced me to tears as I’m sure you recounting that story to us did to you
Im currently watching The Madison which resonates with your journey
It had me thinking about the unbearable pain of losing the most important person in your life
Becs told me your news and I just had to reach out bud
Nice of becs, who is such a quality person and very nice of you Dave. And you’re right about it never being quite the same. I hope your reunion was good fun and it brought back some great memories.
Oh bless you, Mozart. That is such a nice thing to say.
Your strength in all of this is incredible.
Bravo Moz, imo. you've made some kak political choices but you're a class act. Take a bow.
Thanks Blob I appreciate that given we occasionally cross swords, but in a civilized way.
One last story about my wife. When I finished my studies in the US I was recruited by a management consulting firm. Before my joining date they had a corporate retreat at a resort, time to play some sport and look over the new crop and the spouses.
We had a choice of tennis and golf. I played both, but my golf was stronger so I went off to do that, keen to make a good first impression. My wife was an excellent tennis player who later won the Chicago over 40 doubles one year….she joined the tennis group.
After activities were over one chap ran up to me and said ‘did you hear your wife put down Tom’. Tom was a newly elected junior partner and a bit of a blow hard, but somebody I didn’t want to antagonize before starting.
I knew it couldn’t be good, so I asked her what happened. ‘’Well” she said “we were partnered and warming up….then he said ‘I’ll serve’ and I said ‘no, I have seen your serve, I’ll serve’ and she stepped up to the line. Apparently that spread like wildfire in the tennis group and ‘ I’ll serve’ became a saying in the office.
But the evening was young. At dinner being new we were put at the senior partner’s table, one of the most respected men in the firm. All was going nicely and then Bill, the partner asked the people around the table how many children they had.
This led to a series of nice but tedious family stories. I could tell my wife was getting bored. Eventually she said ‘and how many children do you have Bill’ …..‘six’ was the response. There was a moment of respectful silence and then my better half shot back ‘yes, and how many by your wife’.
The stunned silence lasted for fully ten seconds in which I could see my career passing before my eyes.Then Bill broke out in a huge burst of laughter and everybody else joined in relief.
That happened 50 years ago, but Bill and I are still friends and play golf occasionally. And he still refers to the dinner from time to time,
Moz your wife had spunk - my kind of girl
She would have kicked my arse on here - something you have never managed to do :)
Well Dave you are rather delicate, so I pull my punches
Sounds like you landed the job but she helped you keep it, Moz.
People with real natural wit are so bloody rare. But she sounds like she had enough or both of you. Says a lot about you, it takes a strong character to value and keep a strong character as a spouse.
Yes I was overly serious as a young chap.
"Yes I was overly serious as a young chap."
A serious surfer...
Us Vaalies have problems putting those two things together.
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NATO leader just gave Trump everything he wanted?. No he didn't, they had a private conversation that Rutte described as very frank and that Trump has expressed his frustration with NATO. But he didn't give Trump anything new.
As for the idea of America's allies abandoning the US. Again this is just insane levels of lack of self awareness. The Trump administration has gone out of its way to actively antagonize it's allies over the last year, pursing policies that actively damage or harm it's allies as well as bullying them and insulting them. Now it acts shocked when it's Billy No Mates and no one wants to join them in their illegal war.
The Trump administration has gone out of its way to actively antagonize it's allies over the last year, pursing policies that actively damage or harm it's allies as well as bullying them and insulting them. Now it acts shocked when it's Billy No Mates and no one wants to join them in their illegal war
Agreed, there are so many different ways that Trump could have handled Europe better on all the various issues that he brought up, however I do believe as well that Europe could and should have already done so much more themselves, especially on defense spending or contributing to NATO.
Agreed, there are so many different ways that Trump could have handled Europe better on all the various issues that he brought up, however I do believe as well that Europe could and should have already done so much more themselves, especially on defense spending or contributing to NATO.
That's a fair point and you would probably find most Europeans acknowledging it. Right now Europe is significantly investing in it's own defence capabilities at the moment, so the constant criticism from Trump isn't going make things move along any faster, it's counter productive.
That's a fair point and you would probably find most Europeans acknowledging it. Right now Europe is significantly investing in it's own defence capabilities at the moment, so the constant criticism from Trump isn't going make things move along any faster, it's counter productive.
I agree
More European countries are developing their own nukes, so they no longer have to rely on Trump's kill switch nukes which would render them useless.
49,372 posts
From the WSJ
President Trump is angry with U.S. allies for refusing to help make the Strait of Hormuz passable for oil tankers, and the media coverage boils down to a version of “serves him right.” Mr. Trump has played the bully with allies, who are now returning the disfavor. This is satisfying for those who dislike Mr. Trump, but the outcome may not turn out well for the allies.
Europeans have a point that Mr. Trump didn’t consult them before he began this round of bombing with Israel. He’s also been high-handed with Europe over Greenland, and with the world on his unilateral tariffs. A more conventional U.S. President would have done more to cultivate personal ties with leaders who could help smooth over rough political moments. Mr. Trump always prefers the U.S. power flex, which is no doubt grating on European sensibilities.
Yet let’s assume Mr. Trump feels he must keep bombing for many more weeks to end an Iranian veto on oil flows through the Strait of Hormuz. Who will be harmed the most? Not the U.S., which is largely self-sufficient in energy. Americans will pay more for gasoline because oil is a global market. But the price of West Texas crude is still lower than the Brent crude global price, and natural gas is far less expensive in the U.S. than in Europe or Asia.
Escorting ships through the Strait is dangerous and costly even for the U.S. Navy. If there’s no cease-fire that Iran agrees to, Mr. Trump might decide to blow up Iran’s oil energy facilities on Kharg Island.
On Friday the U.S. hit Iran’s military forces on the island but spared the oil production targets. Hitting those would cost Iran dearly since it is still exporting oil through the Strait. It would also hit the rest of the world far more than it would the U.S.
Mr. Trump said Monday “we don’t need anybody” in the Gulf, but he wouldn’t be asking if that were true. European countries have more mine-sweeping ships than the U.S. Naval help would reduce the burden on the U.S. Navy, which has other interests to protect around the world. These days that includes the Caribbean and the Pacific.
More important for relations with Mr. Trump for the next three years—sorry, folks, he still has 34 months to go—is the message that countries were unwilling to help when asked. Mr. Trump has a long memory, and Europe simply can’t defend itself without American military power.
The country in Europe that most seems to appreciate this is Ukraine, of all places. President Volodymyr Zelensky has dispatched his experts on drone defenses to the Gulf, and that could well save American lives. The military in Europe most threatened at home is the one most willing to help the U.S. abroad. Mr. Trump might keep this in mind before pressuring Ukraine into a bad peace with Russia.
The tragedy of this Western division is that the real winners are Iran, Russia and China. They’re working together to defeat the U.S. in the Gulf and weaken American deterrence. If Iran emerges with a veto over Strait of Hormuz oil flows, and U.S. credibility is damaged, Mr. Trump will be hurt.
But the bigger losers in the long run will be countries that depend on American power to deter aggressors. See Ukraine 2014 and 2022, and Gaza 2023. The allies may come to regret their short-term Schadenfreude about Mr. Trump’s Hormuz predicament.