Definitely not any sort of major occupation.
Definitely not any sort of major occupation.
Kharg Island probably.
You still haven't answered your own last question to the board
Do whatever it takes to kill every last IRGC member.
Given how little support Trump has for this mission, both among the insular American public and the feckless Europeans, I don’t believe he will press for regime change. But that would be a right result. Remove these radicals whose fondest wish is an atomic bomb hitting New York.
For almost 50 years the world has tolerated a dysfunctional ME, wars, beheadings, torture of civilians, rigged elections….and pretended it wasn’t happening. The prospects for the Palestinians would improve instantly if their fate wasn’t linked to Iranian Islamic radicals and the whole region would enjoy a revival. Iran itself, a nation of talented people would emerge from the Middle Ages.
The world should be supporting the brave Iranian kids who went out there and protested, and died, up to 36500 of them
Agreed... incredibly brave people
America always bomb the shit out of places, long before any boot touches the ground.
If American do make it a prolonged war, Iran will put the global economy into recession for years.
They will destroy as many energy fields as possible. It will take a good few years to get everything back to how it was.
A duplicate, a CleverMike
SB, you need triplicates and quadruplicates to compete with ou Maaik.
Nah, Ou Maaik isn't racist.,..ou Snarky is just bitter...
"Nah, Ou Maaik is racist.,..ou Snarky is just bitter..."
Huh?
Rooi, all of our TZee brigade are accomplished masters of the art of deflection
BB
You lot re ccomplished idiots who was braibnashed in to spreadi n g sh iot on site, Has been ongoing for yeara,
SB
If American do make it a prolonged war, Iran will put the global economy into recession for years.
Impossible the EU coutries have been in recession for four years nopw and there were no war in Iran - b but one much nearer to home in Ukraine, That one caused serious damage to the EU economies even though they did npt appl sanctions to Russia.
The Russians aa per nmromal outsmarted them and t e S hot Bioden A utopen idiocy in the USA. When they cheat in nobn-applicatiobn of sanctiosn Russia inmcreased heir prices by up to 400% and the EU countries had to pay pr starve. In the USA the corruption attached o the Ukraine warexceeded the corruptio n invovled in the Vietnam War. and that damaged the US ecionomy badly.
Time to get rifd op weak political leadership in Europe and improve Governance and not let criminals govern like like he case was under the Autopen Presidency.
Typo corrected...sorry Maaik, horrible typo.
I don’t believe he will press for regime change. But that would be a right result. Remove these radicals whose fondest wish is an atomic bomb hitting New York.
I agree with everything you’ve said, but I’d also add that another one of their wishes is to see Israel obliterated.
With regards to a regime change, I think Trump is caught in a zugzwang.
The ideal solution would be a change led by a leader similar to the one in Syria.
If there's no regime change, America will be forced into a rehearsal in time to come.
Boots on the ground are a necessity, not a desire, and it’s bound to be messy and bitter. America needs to take control of the Strait of Hormuz and Iran’s oil-producing infrastructure to really take the wind out of Iran’s sails.
This attack on Iran was poorly thought out, and if there was any plan at all, it must have been made by fools.
Indeed...not ideal, but necessary all the same...too late to turn around now... they'll have to figure out a way to fix this... it's needed fixing for decades.
they'll have to figure out a way to fix this
That’s the problem—they’re making up plans as they go, when everything should have been locked and loaded from the very start of the war.
Typical of Trump, whose legacy seems destined to be marked by chaos and mayhem.
...he uses chaos as a tool...and it gets results, but I think he might have underestimated the task at hand with Iran... we'll see.
I have to run...busy day ahead.
Actually I agree with most of your post denny, the war was entered into far too casually.. It was the right thing to do, but the right thing to do properly, Clearly the Strait of Hormuz did not figure sufficiently in the planning.
But if this thing is not done properly we will have to revisit it and Iran’s ability to resist speaks volumes about their military ambitions.
They have enough enriched uranium for 12 bombs and medium range delivery systems. Developing and matching those will take some time but it will be done if not stopped.
The problem then isn’t so much that they are going to blow up NY, but the threat that they could possibly do it changes the calculus completely. And them using it in the ME is more plausible.
This is a rogue regime of the kind the UN was designed to address, until it went off mission. Europe should be backing the US 100% in fixing this. Fifty years of terrorism is enough.
I think their nuclear capability has been neutralized, but the main challenge now is for America to secure control of the Strait of Hormuz. They’re damaging the economies of America and its allies, and if control over that and the oil infrastructure is gained, it’s game over for them. Unless they agree to a peace deal ensuring the free flow of oil and the abandonment of their nuclear program, I’d say the invasion has been pointless.
And yes, the Iran issue should have been addressed 40 years ago. We’ve allowed a toxic state unnecessary freedom for far too long.
Agree with most of the above.
Well done discussing things like an adult, Denise.
Now we wait for Trad-Bok to insert another of his stupid videos or perhaps an excruciatingly long article that nobody will ever read.
Well done discussing things like an adult, Denise.
F/off!
haha that wasn't a sarcastic comment, Denise.
In an adjacent thread, things went totally off the rails, starting with a specific claim and culminating in people venting their Trump spleen.
So, i was actually complimenting you.
I also agree mostly with what Denny said above
Not enough thought was put in to this war before starting it..... but at the same time, nobody can ever really anticipate what an opponent could or would do in a war situation
I do however agree that more heads should have been put together to discuss all the possible or potential outcomes or ramifications of this war ... it was started too early, but I do still 100% agree that this had to be done at some point, even if that sadly means an unfortunate loss of innocent lives..
I suppose Denise is so used to us fighting that he thinks anything I say is an attack.
Huh?
When we criticised Bozo for going into this war without any planning or objective we were told that Bozo was winning the war and we all had TDS.
Does this about-turn mean you Trumpanzees are admitting it was a stupid decision after all?
I don't recall ever saying that the US had won. Neither do I recall ever disagreeing that better planning may or may not have been necessary because I don't actually know. I don't think any of us actually know because we don't have access to the information that would be required to make an assessment like that. And then, of course, it may also turn out to be a bad plan, and it doesn't matter how much planning done when the plan itself is bad.
What I do know is that IRGC are being massively weakened and I support that to the hilt. And it's got zero to do my my approval/disapproval of Trump and/or the US.
But what I agree with more than anything is people being able to separate out a situation from all their emotions around the people or countries involved in it and provide adult opinions.
Nobody here is responsible for what The US or Trump does. Nobody has control over it. None of us know Trump and only some of US have ever been to the US.
What I'm saying is, the supposed "Trumpanzees" appear, yet again, more than willing to partake in adult conversation. One where they aren't somehow being made to feel as though they are responsible for what is happening and where there is this overarching question that goes something like this "See, are you now willing to accept that everything Trump has ever, and will ever do, is entirely wrong?"
And that's why I paid Denise the compliment.
Look at the other thread, where VisKop wants to re-hash his entire repertoire of US and Trump disapproval, for the umpteenth time, if you want a perfect example of what I'm uninterested in.
When we criticised Bozo for going into this war without any planning or objective we were told that Bozo was winning the war and we all had TDS.
Does this about-turn mean you Trumpanzees are admitting it was a stupid decision after all?
I see...so what Trump said about winning this war makes it an automatic "we all said it and believe it"
I don't and won't respond to every single bad or negative comment posted on here about Trump to show which side I am on all the time.... or that I do or don't support whatever is happening at that specific time....or whatever Trump might have stupidly said at any given time.... because it would keep me far too busy all day, every day.....there is just way too much negative Trump material on here to deal with all the time and respond to.
Also, I have never once ever said that anyone was winning this war, or that it was over...or that I agreed that Trump was correct or incorrect about winning it....and I also haven't said anyone had TDS if they disagreed with Trump on winning this war, so I am more than entitled to voice my retrospective concerns and opinions after this war was started, without having to admit that I got anything right or wrong, because I didn't.
It's a war that changes daily, and we will all probably rightly and wrongly get something wrong at any time on what happens in any war given it's unpredictability
Some were wrong about the negotiations
Some were wrong about the gift that was offered
Some will be right and wrong again ....
I also don't respond when things like "winning the war" are so very obviously exaggerated, even if Trump wants to constantly float his own ego by saying stupid things like that....but keeping in mind that the US would obviously at some point always win the war with Iran over time.
I was busy typing my own repsonse when I now see yours Plum after I posted my repsonse
Very similar points made ...
Oh I see. Can either of you point me to a post of yours where you said Bozo was bullshitting when he said he'd won the war? There were several posts (some of them mine) ridiculing Bozo for claiming a win. I don't recall seeing any Trumpanzees agreeing with that or saying things like "he could have consulted NATO". I recall Trumpanzees agreeing with Bozo that NATO was being cowardly and ungrateful for all the things the US had done for them. That's what I remember.
While we're at it, will either of you say straight (without deflecting or adding caveats) that the war was a mistake?
I think it's pretty clear nobody has won the war.
One could also discuss what "win" in this context means. Does it mean totally destroying the enemy or does it mean achieving stated objectives?
And I don't know if NATO should have been further consulted prior to this action.
If I'm totally honest, I have been mad busy with work and trying to stay positive under pretty big pressure, so I chuck on some rugby podcasts when I can, and some Ai discussions. In terms of this conflict, I'm not giving it that much bandwidth because almost nothing of what's out there can be believed, so I see it as a waste of my time trying to understand more about it. I listen to few analysts I trust talk about it every few days and, even then, I treat everything as a maybe.
Before you read that the wrong way, I'm saying this may or may not turn out for the best, the planning and execution might be as good or as bad as can be, I don't know the answers and I don't know the future. And if the US administration do screw the pooch on this then they deserve Al Themba's will that comes their way...likewise if they get a good result should they get the plaudits.
Saying all of that, I'm still glad the iraniaN regimE are getting blown up because I know that if I lived under that kind of religious oppression, I'd welcome somebody trying to help...even if it's not entirely altruistic.
Yes, it's always been very clear that no-one is winning the war . . . yet there was not a single Trumpanzee admitting this when Bozo was boasting about having won it already.
You were all pretty silent on the matter then while the likes of ou Maaik and Draad were already popping the champagne.
@ButtPlug, I dont know what you are rambling on about.
I reminded you that Mozart used the word believe, and I responded that I would believe Switzerland over America (e.g. what they are both saying in the media). I see them as a more credible source of information than America.
And suddenly ButtPlug reverts to a discussion about beliefs and science.
It claims that his belief that COVID was more likely, or at least 50/50, was created in a lab is a fact or science. That is not the scientific consensus. WHO and other health experts have always maintained it was most likely of natural origin- but they never ruled out a lab leak. (No one thinks it was a biological weapon.
The ButtPlug them rambles more on how the Biggest Insurance/ finance/investment companies were major shareholders of the vaccine companies, as scientific proof of something (that COVID was a biological weapon? Who knows what prevails within the mind of ButtPlug creaper...)
These companies are corrupt, but they also happen to be shareholders of many organisations.
COVID cost them their other shareholding assets more than they earned from the vaccine companies' shareholding/ownership, which is peanuts compared to their other assets.
Cmon now, ButtPlug, try to think impartially - it prevents you from filtering data to suit your own beliefs.
If you chop the head off the snake, it just grows another one, which is usually worse, more extremist than the last one. When the West gets involved in the Middle East, it just makes things worse. To those thinking that Iran wants the West's help, we have heard that all before. After the event, the West is cast as the aggressor.
| YearGroup/ | Region | note |
| 1959 | Fatah (armed?wing later) | Palestinian?led, foundational for PLO?style armed struggle. |
| 1967–1970s | PLO?associated factions | Loose umbrella over groups like Fatah, PFLP, DFLP. |
| 1974 | PKK | Kurdish Marxist?insurgent movement in Turkey. |
| 1978 | Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) | Gaza?based Islamist militant group. |
| 1981 | Hezbollah | Lebanese militant arm, Iranian?backed, formed after 1982 Israeli invasion. |
| 1987 | Hamas | Palestinian Islamist movement born in Gaza during the First Intifada. |
| 1988 | al?Qaeda | Global?oriented jihadist network founded during Afghan?Soviet war. |
| 1990s | Algerian GIA (later AQIM) | Armed Islamic Group in Algeria; later evolved into AQIM (North Africa). |
| 1994 | Taliban | Emerged in southern Afghanistan from madrassa?linked former fighters. |
| 1998 | al?Qaeda in Iraq precursor | Zarqawi’s network starts forming, later becomes al?Qaeda in Iraq. |
| 2003 | al?Qaeda in Iraq (AQI) | Formalized by Abu Musab al?Zarqawi; later turns into ISIS core. |
| 2003–2004 | al?Shabaab | Emerges as the youth militia of Somalia’s Islamic Courts Union. |
| 2006 | Islamic State in Iraq (ISI) | Rebranding of disintegrating AQI after Zarqawi’s death. |
| 2009 | al?Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) | Yemen?based AQ affiliate formed from pre?existing Yemeni?Saudi networks. |
| 2011 | Boko Haram (later ISWAP) | Nigerian Islamist?insurgent group; later pledges allegiance to ISIS. |
| 2012 | al?Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) consolidation | Already operating but gains clearer trans?Sahel profile. |
| 2013 | Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) | ISI rebrands as ISIS as it expands into Syrian civil war areas. |
| 2014 | Islamic State declares caliphate | ISIS claims “caliphate” across parts of Iraq and Syria. |
| 2014–2015 | ISIS “provinces” (Wilayat) | Wilayat branches form in Sinai, Libya, Yemen, Afghanistan?Pakistan, etc. |
| 2015 | Islamic State in the West African Province (ISWAP) | Boko Haram faction aligns with ISIS. |
| 2017 | Jama’at Nusrat al?Islam wal?Muslimeen (JNIM) | AQ?linked merger in the Sahel. |
I thought I made it clear the war was inevitable, if not before, certainly after the attack on Israel in 2024. I have never said we have won the war, nor do I believe that was a serious statement from Trump, just more of his art of the deal. Sometimes it works, this time it fell flat.
I do believe we have knocked out a lot of Iranian capability but significantly underestimated the Hormuz issue. The objective should be to make Iran a functional state and remove its sponsorship of terrorism. So there needs to be a weapons quarantine phase if and when this is settled.
Doing nothing was simply to delay this moment to a time when Iran’s negotiating position would have been way stronger and ensure years more of misery in the ME. Pretending that doing nothing is a solution is ignoring the lessons of history.
So why do the same principles not apply to Russia? Because Russia is in the position Iran would be if they had a bomb, multiplied many times over. If Russia wants to go rogue they could destroy every city in the world. Who is to say if we engage them seriously in conventional warfare that there is no risk of escalation, unthinkable. And if we don’t engage them diplomatically will they ever stop the Ukranian venture short of everything they want?
Russia is inherently Western and of the world. Their arts, music and literature are not foreign to our ears, like Oriental music. We must try to bring them into the West, not drive them into China’s orbit.That may be the winning or losing card in the global contest and it is a contest that will decide if following generations enjoy the freedom we enjoy.
This is not love of Putin or lack of respect for the incredible bravery of the Ukranians. It’s looking towards a world where the ME is in relative peace and Russia is a constructive state with an huge land mass, incredible natural resources and very smart people.
We blew the chance once by continuing to treat Russia as unreliable and by humiliating them whenever we could, as we did at Sochi. That was a mistake. Disarming Iran is not.
Oh I see. Can either of you point me to a post of yours where you said Bozo was bullshitting when he said he'd won the war?
As I said to you before, I will not answer every single negative post that you and so many others make on here about Trump, every day........it would keep me too busy....
I have said good and bad things about Trump, whereas you guys only dwell on the negatives, it gets too much
So in your eyes, if I don't respond to any or every negative post that you and many others on here make about Trump, I am agreeing with Trump...... got it.
There were several posts (some of them mine) ridiculing Bozo for claiming a win. I don't recall seeing any Trumpanzees agreeing with that or saying things like "he could have consulted NATO". I recall Trumpanzees agreeing with Bozo that NATO was being cowardly and ungrateful for all the things the US had done for them. That's what I remember.
More generalisations .....point to one single post of mine then where I have called NATO cowards and ungrateful for all the things that the US has done for them..... or anything at all even remotely negative or insulting towards NATO.....just one post will suffice.
I am still in agreement with this war, just not with all the timing, tactics and decisions
Decisions and outcomes are changing every single day, so can one's opinion on certain aspects of the war....
This war is fluid, and it can change in a single second, so I don't see why a person's opinion on this war can't also change should certain things happen in or during this war.......so if I haven't put forward an opinion on something, it by no way should mean that I agree or disagree with whatever is being said.
Well the only changes I've seen since the very beginning have all been for the worse.
Watch Bozo compound it and put boots on the ground.
Operation Epic Fail.
Oh good Rooi, you are predicting a fail. According to the rules of the curse things are guaranteed to get better.
It's already a fail, almost whatever happens from here on in.
I honestly can't see a path to any kind of win here. Can you?
The only way for America to win is to turn Iran into Gaza.
A plausible path…..the power of the curse. Here’s a recent example:
RooinekHall Of Famer
17,193 posts
Mar 28, 2026, 14:02
This game has a bit of a banana-peel feel to it for some reason.
Uh-oh, should I have said "banana peal"?
Who would say something that ignorant? Still the Curse delivered again… the Bools won 40 points to 7. It’s infallible.
"Who would say something that ignorant?"
Who indeed.
". . . the Bools won 40 points to 7."
Not sure which game you were watching, Moz, but the game I watched saw the Bulls winning 34-31. It was a three point win when most people predicted a thrashing.
Well that’s embarrassing and I actually watched some of that game. Still the curse just delivered, but it was close. Hopefully it’s not losing its potency.
"You were all pretty silent on the matter then while the likes of ou Maaik and Draad were already popping the champagne."
Nonsense...I said from the start to give it a few months to evaluate...you know this...I also said that I'm not happy with them starting the war but can understand why... still don't like it though.
While the minority on Americans are cashing in on the stock market, the MAGA boots have to live in these conditions.
Iran is holding the global economy to ransom and damaging it through its selective closure of the Strait of Hormuz. We can’t allow this action to continue for any length of time.
I can't see a solution other than boots on the ground.....can anyone see a better one?
Trump has threatened to bomb their oil wells and infrastructure, and I really hope he doesn’t go through with it—it would be sheer madness if he did.
He says he’s in negotiations but won’t reveal who he’s talking to, while Iran denies any talks are happening. It’s less The Art of the Deal and more the art of chaos, confusion, and lies.
The US hasn't deployed enough troops in the region for a large scale ground offensive. It can maybe take a one or more of those Islands off Iran's cost but from my understanding it would leave the troops on those islands highly exposed and would not guarantee the straights would be kept open.
Trump should just end the war as quickly as possible and reign in Israel. He can make up some bullshit excuse to declare victory...MAGA will lap it up regardless of what it is.. He can then negotiate in the background with Iran and get some sort of deal, probably something like JCPOA Mark II and again call it a victory.
The longer is goes on for the more damage this will do to the world economy.
Trump should just end the war as quickly as possible and reign in Israel. He can make up some bullshit excuse to declare victory...MAGA will lap it up regardless of what it is.. He can then negotiate in the background with Iran and get some sort of deal, probably something like JCPOA Mark II and again call it a victory.
Ending the war while the regime still controls the Strait of Hormuz makes no sense. It would be a victory for Iran and a setback for America, allowing them to grow stronger, fuel chaos across the Middle East, disrupt the global economy, and eventually become an even greater threat than they are now.
So what then?.......hey Yankee howsabout a rehearsal?
As I’ve said, Trump is trapped in a zugzwang..
If America backs off now, it will only embolden them...there has to be a workable solution going forward.
Israel have already ruled out ground force attacks. They prefer to stick to long range strikes.
Get the MAGA boots on the ground, these boosare made for Walkin'
Israel have already ruled out ground force attacks.
If by some miracle you read between the lines of Trump's BS......so has he.
Yes, I really pray they find some way of ending this without further bloodshed and without chickening out and making the blood already spilled in vain...like I said, I would have preferred if he didn't start this now...
Ending the war while the regime still controls the Strait of Hormuz makes no sense. It would be a victory for Iran and a setback for America, allowing them to grow stronger, fuel chaos across the Middle East, disrupt the global economy, and eventually become an even greater threat than they are now.
I agree, leaving Iran to their own devices now would leave oil prices volatile for a long time
I could also see Iran rapidly rebuilding what has been already been destroyed and then looking for retribution in some way later on
I also believe that the surviving regime could still pursue nuclear weapons development covertly for deterrence, unless they are very carefully and specifically monitored with full and complete unhindered access to all suspected sites.
I don't in any way at all agree with the US bombing the electric generating plants or desalination plants either.... I would consider that a war crime and it would be devastasting to so many Iranian citizens.
Trump has previously said that he will refuse to name the people that he is negotiating with in Iran, because of the fear of them being killed.....we will never know the full truth of that, but it does make sense given the many radicals in Iran that would not want that to happen.
v
Ending the war while the regime still controls the Strait of Hormuz makes no sense. It would be a victory for Iran and a setback for America, allowing them to grow stronger, fuel chaos across the Middle East, disrupt the global economy, and eventually become an even greater threat than they are now.
But their going end up with defacto control regardless. They have demonstrated how easily they can shut the straight. As I said even if the US seizes some of the islands, Iran can still keep the straights shut with relatively cheap drones that it will be very hard the US to stop Iran from producing and firing. The Americans have no where enough forces deployed to say seize the Iranian coastline, never mind the whole of Iran a country with 90 million people, 4 times the size of Iraq and land geography that's highly favourable to the defender. And yes they could provide escorts to ships, that would be time consuming and very expensive for American to do long term, never mind the danger they would putting themselves in and even then the people running the tanker ships still not opt to take the risk even with an escort.
The longer this goes on the worse the disruption will be.
As I’ve said, Trump is trapped in a zugzwang..
Yeah he trapped himself. Of as he himself might put it... he doesn't have the cards.
I agree, leaving Iran to their own devices now would leave oil prices volatile for a long time
The longer this goes on the worse the volatility gets. Remember there was no issues getting through the straights until America kicked off this war.
I could also see Iran rapidly rebuilding what has been already been destroyed and then looking for retribution in some way later on
Yeah they will rebuild, it will take a while.
I also believe that the surviving regime could still pursue nuclear weapons development covertly for deterrence, unless they are very carefully and specifically monitored with full and complete unhindered access to all suspected sites.
Quite possibly...the US-Israeli attacks may have made them more determined to get a bomb as deterrence. But they might now think they don't need it... they could funnel resources into much cheaper drones and missiles to shut down the straights. Hell they could even agree to capping missile range and it wouldn't matter and it would be very hard for the US to push for an agreement that prevented Iran from building drones and short range missiles.
I don't in any way at all agree with the US bombing the electric generating plants or desalination plants either.... I would consider that a war crime and it would be devastasting to so many Iranian citizens.
Trump has previously said that he will refuse to name the people that he is negotiating with in Iran, because of the fear of them being killed.....we will never know the full truth of that, but it does make sense given the many radicals in Iran that would not want that to happen.
It would be a war crime and a further blow to American's reputation, with very hard to predict consequences.
I don't think significant negotiations have yet occurred between the US and Iran and Trump is simply lying or a best exaggerating the scale of negotiations that's occurred so far. . There has been some contact and people trying to get the negotiations started and I do think it will end in negotiation's at some point. It seems America wanted to kill Iran's leaders then move down to the second rung on the leader who they believed where more reasonable. The problem being their first strike was too effective and they effectively took out the second rung and so we are not at the third rung who are apparently even more hard-line than the original leaders and to top it off the American's have killed the new leaders, dad, wife and children. I suspect he's not in a negotiating mood.
But they might now think they don't need it... they could funnel resources into much cheaper drones and missiles to shut down the straights. Hell they could even agree to capping missile range and it wouldn't matter and it would be very hard for the US to push for an agreement that prevented Iran from building drones and short range missiles.
I agree, in fact I would be surprised if this did not happen
I must agree with Mozart - the War was inevitable, The following is a as to what is recorded as happning during the ast series of negotiations between Witkopf represening the USA and Iran negotiators:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu7wxy7YBUg
What is importan t is not whether he Iranians lie about their eminent nuclear bombs will destroy Israel and total instability in the ME when they threatent o use such bombs against othe ME countries as well.
People are not dealing woth normal people - they are dealing with ultra-radical religious fanatics which represents a hreat to both the ME, Africa and Europe,
Fanatcs do not feareath - they eblieve there are vrgins waiting for hem after death as religious martyrs. Atilla the Hun came from cntral Asia and terrified Europe - the Ayatollah regime is from the same area and will terrorize Europe,
There are many things I don't like about this war, but I still agree that it had to happen at some point
Trump has been exposed for not planning properly for certain responses from Iran, and I know that you can never really plan for any eventuality in a war, but that is also why I mentioned recently that Trump should have included NATO beforehand, in his plans to attack Iran, before doing anything, because I can only imagine that someone within NATO, could or would have possibly brought up the Strait of Hormuz as a serious problem or concern, before the war even started, which could have led to other considerations, suggestions or ideas on how to counter that, before attacking Iran.
Besides that, it was the right and respectful thing to do considering Trump started the war without informing anyone in NATO up front, but then demanded assistance from them afterwards.
Trump has been exposed for not planning properly for certain responses from Iran,
It's not just missing a certain response...it's missing 'the response' that analysists the world over have for years predicted was the extremely likely response from Iran. It was a reaction any competent government would of seen coming a mile off.
but that is also why I mentioned recently that Trump should have included NATO beforehand, in his plans to attack Iran, before doing anything, because I can only imagine that someone within NATO, could or would have possibly brought up the Strait of Hormuz as a serious problem or concern, before the war even started, which could have led to other considerations, suggestions or ideas on how to counter that, before attacking Iran.
No there is not a snow balls chance in hell that the US military or US intelligence would need to be be told by someone from NATO that blocking the Straights of Hormuz was a likely Iranian response to be being attacked on the scale the US and Israel were about to attack them with.
Besides that, it was the right and respectful thing to do considering Trump started the war without informing anyone in NATO up front, but then demanded assistance from them afterwards.
He wouldn't have got NATO involved anyway. None of the other countries would have found the evidence warranted an attack on Iran. It's not like 9/11 where NATO came to together to aid America after it was attacked. With this war America is the aggressor.
Bozo (and the world) is paying the price for Bozo surrounding himself with fawning sycophants rather than people who are actually qualified for the job.
This is evident from the poor planning of this war (Just think Bozo and Hegsuck whining that no-one knew Iran would close the Straits or fire on their neighbours . . . when anyone with the slightest understanding of Iran or past history could have told these two clowns that's exactly what would have happened) and also from the weak negotiations. Bozo's "negotiaters" are his real-estate buddy and his son-in-law.
Grovelling yes-men who haven't got the first clue what they're doing. Sucking up is the only thing they're good at.
Yes, this was unbelievably stupid - and shows that Trump and his sycophantic toadies do not know what they are doing. He has appointed yes-men and business associates, instead of the best men in the government. His first administration had far more capable and ethical conservatives than those in place now.
Trump is panicking as the midterms draw near, and he could lose both the House and the Senate. He has pushed up the price of oil in the US, and inflation looks like it is increasing once again.
Making comments like he is just going to take all of Iran's oil, and putting photos on social media of the Straits being renamed to the Straits of Trump, is just going to make Iranians go crazy.
The terms for surrender that Trump offered are just not something that any country would take until it looks like the Gaza Strip - a blown up reckage.
Even if Trump had realised his military goals, that would just be back to the Obama deal.
So the war will be deemed a failure. It will encourage Iran to get a Nuke, and they will certainly increase their drone manufacturing capacity.
More countries will know they need nukes to be safe from an increasingly militant America, causing a nuclear arms race. Trump could potentially use the threat of nuclear war against unarmed countries, instead of using tariffs to gain favourable trade deals
So the world is worse off now than it was. It is no surprise that Trump's strongest support is from the uninformed and uneducated.
Whenever the Middle East is attacked by the West, it just makes them more radical.
Like I said from the outset, it is best to leave the Middle East and try not to get involved. Green energy will soon compete with fossil energy, so we will have less dependane on the Middle East.
No there is not a snow balls chance in hell that the US military or US intelligence would need to be be told by someone from NATO that blocking the Straights of Hormuz was a likely Iranian response to be being attacked on the scale the US and Israel were about to attack them with
I agree with you, you would think not, especially with their vast intelligence services as well as the Israeli's assisting them and also Iran's history of conflict from the past.... but then you are basically saying that the US deliberately went ahead and started this war with Iran, knowing full well what would happen with the Straits of Hormuz... without planning anything at all to counter that response from Iran, just because they wanted this war with Iran .....
He wouldn't have got NATO involved anyway. None of the other countries would have found the evidence warranted an attack on Iran
That is very possible, but then again, if Trump went into this war with his own top secret reasons, then sharing those reasons with NATO "may" have changed their reasons or attitude towards a war with Iran..... and no, we will both never know the real answer to that for sure, but we cannot categorically say it couldn't or wouldn't happen.
Trump was wrong for not even informing anyone at NATO of what he wanted to do by attacking Iran, never mind also wanting to include them beforehand.
The Big question is, where does this leave Israel? If America ends the war against Iran, will Israel continue attacking?
Israel has relied on support from the West, and a major reason why the Middle East has not united in a war against Israel (which they would win easily due to sheer numbers - Israel is a small country, something like 12 million people). Countries may be less inclined to help Israel given what they have done to Gaza, and now to other Arab countries.
Bibi and Bozo have different objectives. Bibi wants regime change and Bozo wants to control the oil.
Frankly I don't see either one getting what he wants.
I don't think he wants to control the oil, he just doesn't want a manipulated oil market where China and their cronies can buy sanctioned oil at a massive discount...a fair open market, hence the lifted sanctions. Sanctions had the opposite effect than intended...give all the rogue countries an edge while the West got the punishment at the pump.
I don't think he wants to control the oil, he just doesn't want a manipulated oil market where China and their cronies can buy sanctioned oil at a massive discount...a fair open market, hence the lifted sanctions. Sanctions had the opposite effect than intended...give all the rogue countries an edge while the West got the punishment at the pump
I agree
America can put sanctions on oil if they want, but they cant force other countries to follow sanctions that are only legal within the borders of America. He could ask another country to honour the tariffs, but the final choice belongs to that country.
Trump also lost his main tariff power recently, so he has less leverage to use secondary sanctions.
I agree with you, you would think not, especially with their vast intelligence services as well as the Israeli's assisting them and also Iran's history of conflict from the past.... but then you are basically saying that the US deliberately went ahead and started this war with Iran, knowing full well what would happen with the Straits of Hormuz... without planning anything at all to counter that response from Iran, just because they wanted this war with Iran .....
No I don't think it was Trump's intention. I think the military and intelligence services would have likely spoken up and passed their assessments up the chain of command...whether it reached Trump or not is another thing...but I suspect it did. What I expect happened was that another set of advisors gave him a totally optimistic best case scenario that this would be a quick and easy operation, drop a few bombs the Iranian's will run to the negotiation table, it will be just like Venezuela. Still on a high from the the success of the Venezuela option that is the scenario he wanted to believe so he chose it.
That is very possible, but then again, if Trump went into this war with his own top secret reasons, then sharing those reasons with NATO "may" have changed their reasons or attitude towards a war with Iran..... and no, we will both never know the real answer to that for sure, but we cannot categorically say it couldn't or wouldn't happen.
Trump was wrong for not even informing anyone at NATO of what he wanted to do by attacking Iran, never mind also wanting to include them beforehand.
If he went into the war with his own top secret reasons...then the intelligence services and members of intelligence committees would have long since come out and said the reason's exist, we just can't share what they are at this time. If such intelligence existed...it's like allied intelligence services would also have been able to corroborate the intelligence at least to some degree. Also if such intelligence existed...do you really think a country like Britain couldn't be trusted to share the intelligence with.
The far more likely explanation is no such top secret reasons exist.
I don't think he wants to control the oil, he just doesn't want a manipulated oil market where China and their cronies can buy sanctioned oil at a massive discount...a fair open market, hence the lifted sanctions. Sanctions had the opposite effect than intended...give all the rogue countries an edge while the West got the punishment at the pump.
The oil markets were doing just fine before Trump's little escapade. The straight was fully open, global supply was normal and volatility was low. There was no expectation or reason to believe Iran would of just shut the Straights of Hormuz if not but for this war.
What I expect happened was that another set of advisors gave him a totally optimistic best case scenario that this would be a quick and easy operation, drop a few bombs the Iranian's will run to the negotiation table, it will be just like Venezuela. Still on a high from the the success of the Venezuela option that is the scenario he wanted to believe so he chose it.
Agreed. Trump believed that bombing the crap out of Iran would deliver easy pickings not dissimilar to Venezuela.
"The oil markets were doing just fine before Trump's little escapade. "
No, it wasn't...China and a few countries got sanctioned oil at a massive discount ...
@Draad, do you realise that Trump is only the president of America - and not the World?
I would have liked all of the world to sanction Russian oil when Russia invaded Ukraine-- but that choice belongs to them.
Reselling Russian oil pretending it was other oil was a problem because we can choose what oil we want to buy, not what others want to buy.
No, it wasn't...China and a few countries got sanctioned oil at a massive discount ...
Which had the effect of lowering the global price of oil and was actually considered to have a major stabilizing effect on the global oil markets.
m
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BP, f.u., the cartoon's magnificent , your response, puerile.
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or continue bombing '...the shit out of Iran'?
If you were Trump, what would your strategy be?