The outlet reported 14 of 15 demands conveyed to Iran:

1. Iran must dismantle existing nuclear capabilities.
2. Iran must commit never to pursue nuclear weapons.
3. No uranium enrichment on Iranian territory.
4. Iran must hand its stockpile of enriched uranium to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).
5. The Natanz, Isfahan and Fordo nuclear facilities must be dismantled.
6. The IAEA must be granted full access to Iran’s nuclear facilities.
7. Iran must abandon its “regional proxy paradigm.”
8. Iran must cease funding, directing and arming its proxies.
9. The Strait of Hormuz must remain open.
10. Iran’s missile program must be limited in both range and quantity.
11. Iran must limit its use of missiles to self-defense.

Iran would benefit from:

1. The end of sanctions imposed by the international community.
2. US assistance to advance its civilian nuclear program.
3. A “snapback” mechanism allowing for the automatic reimposition of sanctions if Iran fails to comply would be removed.

If accepted this would certainly be a major step forward and I heard on one channel that Iran’s Speaker is involved in these discussions, That provides significant constitutional credibility in a government breakdown situation.

But the military spokesmen are still making hostile threats and the Speaker has also made provocative comments, perhaps dealing with his own internal pressures.

So it’s possible Iran could in effect be dealing with a military coup attempt at some point, which would mean an internal military solution might still be required…but with much more likely support from other countries and from pro government internal forces.

Ask yourself how this would feel (assuming it happened) if the rebel group had control of nukes with sufficient range to reach London and Paris. Exactly the reason why rogue countries should not have nuclear weapons

Despite all the site stories about negotiation it seems that Paistan is co-ordinatin g t he negotiations and th e pressure of most Muslim countries support the above negotiation initiative, I am not sure what the result would be - but the fact is the Gaza ceasefire and future as negoitiated is on track.

As far as aI can make up - nobody knows who really is in ch arge in Iran at present, It is going to be interesting who will represent Iran at the Islamabad negotiations - and whether the Iran representaties have any power at all to negotiate an acceptable agreement.

A further uncertainty is the foreign proxies of Iran and their funding , That may even touch on Iran own domestic policies as to human rights. No more murder of protestors like happened whenever protests erupts in Iran.

S o desoite he idiocy on site we may see a real peoce initiative coming out,

Iran already rejected that immediately, They also denied any negotiations before that - other than the Truth Social posts of Trump

.

So Shark you really believe Trump, Rubio and all the other US officials are simply lying….knowing full well in a few days that will be exposed.

Yes, I do believe they are lying. They have already been exposed. However, it is just Trump taking a dump on Truth Social, and his sycophantic toadies like Vance just have to play along.

I see Trump has just sent MAGA boots on the ground. So America is back into another costly war.

Iran is a horrible place to have a land war; it is so mountainous.

At least we will get another Netflix war hero movie. Saving Private Mohammed: The Liberation of Iranian Oil.

I wonder what the missing 15th point was. Probably giving control of the Strait to Trump's family business.

Trump is basically Putin, but with more firepower. Trump and Putin appear to be very good friends (or comrades). I would not be surprised if they are in league, jointly planning both operations in Ukraine and Iran.

Like Putin, Trump has offered a peace plan that Iran can't accept. That means MAGA boots on the ground.

I've been hearing some reports that Iran is willing to give up it's nuclear program but it's setting a very high price for it.

End of the war obviously but also the end of Israel's operation in Lebanon, official recognition that Iran controls the Straight of Hormuz, that are paid reparations and the US must remove it's entire military presence from the Gulf.

feelings

c

m

So Shark you really believe Trump, Rubio and all the other US officials are simply lying….knowing full well in a few days that will be exposed.

Stated many times already: liberals share one common point with fascists: they have respect for nothing but power.

A common occurrence: liberals drop statements with nothing to back them up and expect them to be widely accepted.

Nothing on the way on how to reach the conclusion Trump has not been lying. Nothing on it.

On the other side, getting to the conclusion Trump has been lying is straightforward.

End of the war obviously but also the end of Israel's operation in Lebanon, official recognition that Iran controls the Straight of Hormuz, that are paid reparations and the US must remove it's entire military presence from the Gulf.

So no negotiation. Iran tells it is not negotiating. Which it does. When both sides drop demands on each other, it is the sign of an absence of a negotiated solution. And since Iran's demands came in reaction to the US demands...

Trump declared there were ongoing negotiations going super well and what emerged revealed the absence of negotiation. The US dropped their demands on Iran. No negotiation.

This crisis has clarified many things.

Globalisation is largely beneficial to the US: they have triggered a global crisis and others are absorbing the cost for the US. The US have not been suffering much while others have taken the full blunt.

Parts of the world, countries that are toasted are also revealed in plain light.

Japan: too deep in US debt scheme to dissociate, been humiliated by the US, and now coerced to tour the world to panhandle energy supply.

European countries: they traded a cheap energy supplier willing to use energy supply as leverage for an expensive energy supplier willing to use energy supply as leverage as the US have threatened the EU to cut European countries energy supply off if they do not submit. And this, in a crisis the US have triggered. The US are using the vulnerable european state the US have forced to kick European countries in the teeth. Very funny.

On the other hand, Iran has declared they re open the strait to non hostile ships, which means that hostile ships are the cause of the global crisis, which points fingers at the US and liberal Israel as the cause. Which provides a clear view on actors that can act according to that fact. Europe and Japan can not.

It is clear, thanks to Donald Trump.

"I've been hearing some reports that Iran is willing to give up it's nuclear program but it's setting a very high price for it.

End of the war obviously but also the end of Israel's operation in Lebanon, official recognition that Iran controls the Straight of Hormuz, that are paid reparations and the US must remove it's entire military presence from the Gulf"

TLDR; Keep bombing the IRGC for another month or two.

Fun fact - Iran have one of the highest average IQs in the world - 106

Plum

How dare you put that on site. You are insulting the 60 IQ of SB - who might have had a better mark until he lost his thinking ability as a result of brainwashing. Difficult because they did not wipe out the shit his brain used to operate - it aggraavated it,

Iran, Cuba, Venezuela all countries that could be prospering with smart citizens…..hijacked by 19th century style dictators.And because of their balmy anti Trump sentiment, the Woke set are lined up with the dictators against their own people. And yet they despise Christianity as a fairy tale. Totally confused puppies,

Iran, Cuba, Venezuela all countries that could be prospering with smart citizens…..hijacked by 19th century style dictators.And because of their balmy anti Trump sentiment, the Woke set are lined up with the dictators against their own people. And yet they despise Christianity as a fairy tale. Totally confused puppies,

Ah yes we are lining up behind dictators that's exactly what we are doing. We love dictators, besides if you're anti Trump that means you must be pro dictators...like the way we all support Putin right? It must be great not having to think for yourself, being told by your side what the other side believes and never actually have to listen to the other side says. Zero critical thinking or mental effort required.

I also still love the fact that you lot are denial about Trump leaving the Venezuela regime in power, just with a new leader.

The reports coming out of Venezuela are that if anything oppression of the people has increased.

Yet we are the confused puppies...gee i wonder how the MAGA supporters who voted for him on his no more wars pledge are feeling right now.

But hey thank god the US didn't vote Kamala right...things would be so much worse by now.

We love dictators, besides if you're anti Trump that means you must be pro dictators...like the way we all support Putin righ

‘’But Trump was trying to make a deal with Putin, so you were automatically anti Putin. To find the Woke position ….figure out where Trump is…then regardless of any common sense or morality define the opposite position and that’s where you and the Woke set are. Mindless dislike.

Yet we are the confused puppies...gee i wonder how the MAGA supporters who voted for him on his no more wars pledge are feeling right now.

Surveys shows 90% of Maga supporters support the war, there, now you don’t need to wonder

But hey thank god the US didn't vote Kamala right...things would be so much worse by now.

We all know that you would have taken her instead of Trump....and Harris would have told Putin that it was a really bad thing that he did with Ukraine ..... she would have really given it to him.

But Trump was trying to make a deal with Putin, so you were automatically anti Putin. To find the Woke position ….figure out where Trump is…then regardless of any common sense or morality define the opposite position and that’s where you and the Woke set are. Mindless dislike

Pretty much a spot on assessment of some posters on here

Surveys shows 90% of Maga supporters support the war, there, now you don’t need to wonder

Lol..... ouch

And... if you really want to get to the specifics.... 5 separate indpendent polls on this topic have it at a combined 86.8% MAGA supporters in support of the war.

I guess no more wondering Stav

But Trump was trying to make a deal with Putin, so you were automatically anti Putin. To find the Woke position ….figure out where Trump is…then regardless of any common sense or morality define the opposite position and that’s where you and the Woke set are. Mindless dislike.

What absolute drivel, I was anti Putin from day 1 of the invasion. I was anti Trump-Putin's negotiations because Trump was trying to force a terrible deal onto Ukraine. But I guess by supporting those negations I can simply label you pro-Putin right?

Regardless of common sense or morality, switch off your brain and just call any criticism of Trump woke...because it's just so lazy and easy to do so. No critical thinking required.

Surveys shows 90% of Maga supporters support the war, there, now you don’t need to wonder

Maybe they are. Shows you just how little they have in the way of principals.

We all know that you would have taken her instead of Trump....and Harris would have told Putin that it was a really bad thing that he did with Ukraine ..... she would have really given it to him.

She wouldn't have cut support to Ukraine, wouldn't have tried to force Ukraine into taking a terrible deal. and she wouldn't have started this stupid war with Iran.

Lol..... ouch

And... if you really want to get to the specifics.... 5 separate indpendent polls on this topic have it at a combined 86.8% MAGA supporters in support of the war.

I guess no more wondering Stav

Ouch..not really

5 Separate polls you say.

Here is the percentage of republicans in favour of the war

Pew = 70-75%

Reuters/Ipos = 65-75%

AP-NORC = 60-65%

Quinnipaic = 60-68%

Fox News Poll= 70%

Now tell me where the Democrat and Independents are at.

Regardless of common sense or morality, switch off your brain and just call automatic criticism of Trump woke...because it's just so true. No critical thinking in sight..

Maybe they are. Shows you just how little they have in the way of principles……diversion

5 Separate polls you say.

Here is the percentage of republicans in favour of the war

Oh dear you think Republicans=MAGA….educate yourself man, improve your sources of information.

Oh dear you think Republicans=MAGA….educate yourself man, improve your sources of information.

Oh so your telling me you have 5 polls/surveys that where able to divide people between normal republicans and MAGA and those show that between 86.8% to 90% of people who call themselves MAGA are in favour of the war.

Would you be chance happen to be able to produce these polls/surveys?

Er nice deflection attempt. You were responding to DA’s post on MAGA with total Republican numbers. You clearly didn’t know the difference..

MAGA or not, the majority of Trump supporters back strikes in Iran

Share of Americans, split by whether they self-identify as MAGA or non-MAGA Republicans, who support or oppose the joint U.S.-Israel military strikes on Iran, the killing of Iran's supreme leader and the targeting of Iranian military, nuclear and government sites.

MAGA

81%

10%

7%

Non-MAGA

61%

16%

19%

5%

Overall

43%

18%

33%

5%

The poll was conducted by Public First from Mar. 13 to 18, surveying 3,851 U.S. adults online. Results were weighted by age, race, gender, geography and educational attainment. The overall margin of sampling error is ±1.6 percentage points. Smaller subgroups have higher margins of error.

Source: The POLITICO Poll with Public FirstAnna Wiederkehr/POLITICO

……

So in this poll only 7% of MAGA respondents disapproved of the war vs 19% for Republicans as a whole. You were confusing Republican support for MAGA support

Republican=MAGA is about as naive and shortsighted as anti-Bozo=Woke.

I'm the most anti-Bozo person I know and also the most anti-Woke.

Views of Trump remain central to all this. For most Americans, approval of the war and how it's going is closely tied to whether they have confidence in him or not

I trust you are satisfied now Anger?

How do they determine whether a Republican is MAGA or not?

If you're Republican or a Republican supporter then you're dumb enough to vote for Bozo. No more need be said.

Moz, honestly being anti-Trump does not automatically mean anyone is pro-Putin, pro-dictator, or “Woke.”

You say Iran, Cuba, Venezuela are “hijacked by 19th-century dictators” and Trump is not a dictator from the 20th-century??

So People can criticize Trump without supporting dictators anywhere. That’s just basic logic.

Is your “90% MAGA supporters support the war” numbers correct??

This is what ChatGPT says :

- Reuters/Ipsos: 55% of republicans approved the war. Only 27% of all Americans approved.

- AP-NORC: 70% of republicans approved the war. Only 20% of all Americans approved.

- Quinnipiac University: 70% of republicans approved the war. 53% of all voters say USA military action makes the world unsafe.

- CNN/SSRS national polls: 69% republicans approved the war. 59% of all Americans are against the war.

And I strongly wonder who's brain is off when it comes to criticism of Trump. All I am seeing is MAGA supporters on this forum blindly following like sheep to the slaughter...Sounds more like: Heil dem Führer. Who is really the “confused puppies” I wonder?

Even if today the Iranians agreed to dismantle all it's nuclear facilities and today they gave up all it's enriched uranium....what is stopping them from purchasing a nuclear weapon off another bad actor like North Korea tomorrow ?

If you were creating a spy thriller along these lines how would it go?

.

...Arman’s pulse quickened. For years, his nation had been forced to dismantle its reactors, shutter its research labs, and sign treaty after treaty until even the idea of nuclear ambition had become taboo. But now—now the balance could shift.

Now the bully could bleed.

But beneath the surge of vindication, a sliver of doubt twisted in his gut. Once a weapon like this was unleashed, there would be no turning back. No plausible deniability. No mercy.

Chapter One — The Quiet Ashes

The capital city had forgotten how to raise its voice.

Once, its streets had thundered with parades of scientific pride—white?coated engineers marching beneath banners promising a future powered by the atom. Now those same streets lay muted, patrolled by foreign drones that hummed like mechanical hornets overhead. The people walked with their shoulders tucked inward, as if afraid the sky itself might reprimand them.

Minister Arman Dastani watched from his office window as another drone traced a lazy arc over the Ministry of Energy. Its metallic shell caught the morning sun, flashing like a warning. He felt the familiar burn in his chest—anger, humiliation, and something darker that he refused to name.

His country had been forced to kneel. The superpower across the ocean had made sure of that.

They had called it a “non?negotiable security measure.” They had called it “maintaining global stability.” They had called it many things, but Arman knew the truth: it was punishment. A message to the world about what happened to nations that dared to dream beyond their assigned place.

A soft chime sounded from his desk

The secure line...

. Who is really the “confused puppies” I wonder?

I can confirm you are M…..

.

Howzit Card!

Ok Moz, let me get this straight...you call me confused, but yet you haven’t answered a single point.

You don't list any positives about this war.

So what are the actual benefits of this war??

What we already have from this Illegal and unprovoked war:

- civilian deaths

- rising oil prices

- global economic impact

- long-term instability

- billions are spend on war instead of

actually Making America Great Again

- Analyst all agree that this War will not

remove the Iranian System

So what exactly is the upside??

Moz, honestly being anti-Trump does not automatically mean anyone is pro-Putin, pro-dictator, or “Woke.”

Agreed. I'm anti-Trump as well as anti-woke, and to labor the point, I hold some strong conservative values.

Moz, I wish you would go back to being the Mozart I once knew.

...are you sure he's the only one who have changed?

Er nice deflection attempt. You were responding to DA’s post on MAGA with total Republican numbers. You clearly didn’t know the difference..

Absolutely spot on..... I very clearly and specifically referenced "MAGA" in my post.... because I know the difference

...are you sure he's the only one who have changed?

Yeah, some introspection needed here

This from another string but it’s relevant here:

MozartHall Of Famer

49,013 posts

Mar 27, 2026, 15:23

Given how little support Trump has for this mission, both among the insular American public and the feckless Europeans, I don’t believe he will press for regime change. But that would be a right result. Remove these radicals whose fondest wish is an atomic bomb hitting New York.

For almost 50 years the world has tolerated a dysfunctional ME, wars, beheadings, torture of civilians, rigged elections….and pretended it wasn’t happening. The prospects for the Palestinians would improve instantly if their fate wasn’t linked to Iranian Islamic radicals and the whole region would enjoy a revival. Iran itself, a nation of talented people would emerge from the Middle Ages.

The world should be supporting the brave Iranian kids who went out there and protested, and died, up to 36500 of them.

We shouldn’t be whining about the price of oil when kids are out there dying for principles. And I can assure you anybody with a significant portion of their wealth in stocks has suffered a higher percentage hit to their net worth than those complaining about gasoline. Sometimes it takes some sacrifice.

This from another string but it’s relevant here:

It was bollocks the first time you posted it...and it's still bollocks the second time.

We shouldn’t be whining about the price of oil when kids are out there dying for principles. And I can assure you anybody with a significant portion of their wealth in stocks has suffered a higher percentage hit to their net worth than those complaining about gasoline. Sometimes it takes some sacrifice.

The only principle they are dying for is the stupidity of Donald Trump.

You still just don't get it do you....the people who have significant portions of their wealth in stock are not in the same boat as regular people complaining about gasoline. They lose $10 million in stocks its a tough pill to swallow as they console themselves with the other $50 million in their bank account, while for the average Joe on the breadline it could mean he can no longer afford to put gasoline in the car to get to work. The sacrifice's are not equivalent. Are you sure you aren't the reincarnated Mary Antoniette?

For someone who thinks the Ukraine caused the US inflation in 22 you should be very familiar with Bollocks Anger. I’m referring to the kids who died during the Iran elections, are you blaming that on Trump….do work on your comprehension, which is constantly hijacked by chronic TDS,

As for the relative sacrifice of regular people and stock owners….again examine the words. Notice the word percentage Sunshine? The S&P 500 is down by 7% since the war started, I guarantee you ‘regular’ people haven’t lost 7% of their net worth. So my statement was absolutely correct.

Yes they may be experiencing a more severe immediate crunch, but that will come back when this is resolved and there is a glut of oil. As usual you take a statement literally and get it wrong….bombastic and clueless.

Moz, this is complete nonsense.

- Your “insular American public and feckless Europeans” crap is speculation and propaganda.

-Trump should be pressing for regime change, and saying “that would be a right result” is just warmongering ego.

- Your radicals atomic bomb on New-York fear-mongering? Total Bs propaganda and projection. Most Iranians are normal people, not plotting attacks.

- Your 50 year dysfunctional Middle East nonsense? Absolute propaganda. Most civilians are ordinary, hardworking people. And the Real instability?

Largely Israel’s actions, foreign interference, and politics, not Iran. Stop blaming an entire nation.

- Your claim that Palestinians’ fate is tied to Iranian radicals? Wrong. Israel is the primary oppressor.

- Saying Iran would “emerge from the Middle Ages”? Pure elitist exaggeration. Iran has education, culture, science.

Stop insulting millions for your fantasy narrative.

- Your “whole region would enjoy a revival” line? Unrealistic assumptions. Nothing supports that. It’s political fantasy, not reality.

- The Iranian protesters is a tradegy. But what about the kids and civilians killed by Trump and Netanyahu with a Tomahawk missile?? And the ones still dying?? Hypocrisy on full display...

Overall, your post is emotional rhetoric, warmongering, narcissistic, and hypocritical.

You lecture while ignoring real life deaths and suffering caused by this war.

Moz for Goodness sake, stop pretending to be a prophet of war.

You have no evidence, no context, and no moral high ground. Stick to the USA governments shit, and stop spreading lies and warmongering here.

Umm...I believe he was referring to the IRGC and its stranglehold on Iranians.

For someone who thinks the Ukraine caused the US inflation in 22 you should be very familiar with Bollocks Anger.

You mean someone who is correct about Ukraine causing massive global inflation, yes I will call bollocks on such utter nonsense as radicals whose fondest wish is an atomic bomb hitting New York.

And this.

For almost 50 years the world has tolerated a dysfunctional ME, wars, beheadings, torture of civilians, rigged elections….and pretended it wasn’t happening. The prospects for the Palestinians would improve instantly if their fate wasn’t linked to Iranian Islamic radicals and the whole region would enjoy a revival. Iran itself, a nation of talented people would emerge from the Middle Ages.

Yes 50 years of dysfunctional ME...that the US played a major role in making dysfunctional. Beheading torturing of civilians...sure things that the United States allies do in the region...remember what the Saudis did to Jamal Khashoggi...and you talk about rigged elections when Donald Trump tried to overturn the results of the 2020 election in the US. Again the insane lack of self awareness coming out MAGA land is off the charts. And you know the prospects of the Palestinians would improve if the US would actually force Israel to come to an acceptable arrangement with them, not enable their oppression and war crimes. And another thing...a revival of the region...what's it got to do with the US...stop meddling in the region and let it sort itself out.

I’m referring to the kids who died during the Iran elections, are you blaming that on Trump….do work on your comprehension, which is constantly hijacked by chronic TDS,

I was referring to the people who Trump was sending to die in this stupid war and the innocent civilians that will die caught in the crossfire.

Trump doesn't care about Iranian civilians, or Ukrainian civilians or Venezuela civilians, he just cares about whatever thinks will make him look good. And frankly neither does most people defending this operation...they are just bating for their team. If Trump declared a few weeks that he signed a deal that left the Iranian regime in place you would be all saying, well it's unfortunate about the civilians but it's not our job to save them.

As for the relative sacrifice of regular people and stock owners….again examine the words. Notice the word percentage Sunshine? The S&P 500 is down by 7% since the war started, I guarantee you ‘regular’ people haven’t lost 7% of their net worth. So my statement was absolutely correct.

Get out of that ivory tower of yours. Some people live day to day, pay cheque to pay cheque with no margin for error. Every penny they have is already accounted for, they have zero disposable income...even a slight increase in prices can be the difference between having enough money to eat or to go without.

Yes they may be experiencing a more severe immediate crunch, but that will come back when this is resolved and there is a glut of oil. As usual you take a statement literally and get it wrong….bombastic and clueless.

ROFL...yes that's it be a good little trooper and tough out not being able to eat for between two 2 weeks or 6 months or a year or who knows how long...buy don't worry oil will be super cheap after that and US oil companies our booming!

What's that, what about all the poor people in third world who may get tripped into a famine by this war...shhh who cares...it's America first baby.

- Your “insular American public and feckless Europeans” crap is speculation and propaganda.

He mean's those damn non stupid Europeans. The little men in suits once again proving they are superior class of politician to the morons in Washington...although admittedly that's a low bar to clear.

Your radicals atomic bomb on New-York fear-mongering? Total Bs propaganda and projection. Most Iranians are normal people, not plotting attacks.

Well apparently a spy in Iran has leaked a photo of a new weapon the radicals are building that they plan to terrorize the US with.

Moz, this is complete nonsense.

- Your “insular American public and feckless Europeans” crap is speculation and propaganda.

The american public are solidly against the war because they don’t believe America gains from it…..insular. Europe has blown hot and cold on support…feckless

-Trump should be pressing for regime change, and saying “that would be a right result” is just warmongering ego.

Leave the Ayotollahs in charge and nothing is going to change. Every Arab state is either neutral or for taking out the Iranian military threat.

- Your radicals atomic bomb on New-York fear-mongering? Total Bs propaganda and projection. Most Iranians are normal people, not plotting attacks.

Total BS, except they have enough enriched uranium for 12 nuclear bombs. Fast forward 5 years and they could build one and have a delivery system

- Your 50 year dysfunctional Middle East nonsense? Absolute propaganda. Most civilians are ordinary, hardworking people. And the Real instability?

Read and learn:

n the last 50 years (roughly 1976–2026), the Middle East has experienced

over a dozen major interstate wars, civil wars, and significant regional conflicts, with 10 active in 2023 alone

Largely Israel’s actions, foreign interference, and politics, not Iran. Stop blaming an entire nation.

So Israel attacked itself on October7th, which started the latest conflicts

- Your claim that Palestinians’ fate is tied to Iranian radicals? Wrong. Israel is the primary oppressor.

The Palestinians are dominated by Hamas who want no peace

- Saying Iran would “emerge from the Middle Ages”? Pure elitist exaggeration. Iran has education, culture, science.

‘And it has no free speech, no legitimate elections, no economy apart from oil and total religious intolerance. The young wrestlers who participated in the demonstrations were condemned to death by an Iranian court.

Stop insulting millions for your fantasy narrative.

- Your “whole region would enjoy a revival” line? Unrealistic assumptions. Nothing supports that. It’s political fantasy, not reality.

‘Any region that has endured over 12 majors wars would emerge emerge if that threat was removed

- The Iranian protesters is a tradegy. But what about the kids and civilians killed by Trump and Netanyahu with a Tomahawk missile?? And the ones still dying?? Hypocrisy on full display...

If there was another way to do it I would support it, but with Iran long term saving of lives unfortunately involves short term sacrifices

Overall, your post is emotional rhetoric, warmongering, narcissistic, and hypocritical.

Overall your response is insulting, uninformed and childish.

You lecture while ignoring real life deaths and suffering caused by this war.

Moz for Goodness sake, stop pretending to be a prophet of war.

You know I don’t care about lives huh? Want to know how much I gave to Doctors Without Borders in the last 5 years anonymously?

You have no evidence, no context, and no moral high ground. Stick to the USA governments shit, and stop spreading lies and warmongering here.

Every point I make is supported by logic or facts. You can dispute them and I’m sure some are wrong. This is not a doctoral dissertation and some errors are bound creep in. But to be honest nothing you have said comes even close to negating any point I have made. And every response is pretty much a personal accusation or an emotional rant.

There have been several of these attacks from you which I have pretty much mostly ignored, you do realize that you have been treated civilly I hope. So do try to respond in kind. This is a Board which serves as an exchange of ideas.

I think M is on the beers haha

Guy is emotional as hell

M is on the button with every post . . . as is Stav.

Honestly, if you okes still can't see through Bozo's bullshit you never will.

I ead he above wih amazement and see the shit thinking of some media outlets clearly.

Stav and SB and most others do not understand wha MAGA is, It is just a belief in protection of the USA as a democratic country, It started in 2014 when it became clear that the Democrats developed their own strategy aimed at detruction of the USA as a demcoracy-based country hrough undeocratic means like politizing Judicial processes - open the USA borders - destroyung the USA economy and even proclain their is n o physical differences between women and men, So a woman is described as a childbearig parent and family life must be destroyed through usage of Stalinist eduxaton ideology,

The fact is propaganda fight for the implmentation of Socialist dictatorship in the USA - and for that abuse the election system and riots are and were promoted - while crimials became partners in crime with the DP leadership. So crime is rife in DP controlled states and cities,

The DP stands fpr protection of links to Dictatorial States prepared to bribe the USA Government and promote their people shouting at riots "Death to America". That si we have real ideology opposed to MA GA - it is Destroy America Literally Totally (DALT). Live with it - you are totally absorbed by your own enemies.

,

Hey Plum, don’t make claims about me when you don’t know me. I don’t even drink, you fool.

So mind your own business and keep your own house in order. If you want to add something, make it factual.

Otherwise, maybe just keep quiet...that’s a better option for you than lying again!

"I don’t even drink, you fool."

When I read some of the stuff in this section, I sometimes wonder if I drink enough.

"Hey Plum, don’t make claims about me when you don’t know me. I don’t even drink, you fool.

So mind your own business and keep your own house in order. If you want to add something, make it factual.

Otherwise, maybe just keep quiet...that’s a better option for you than lying again!"

What about the time you went to the wine estate and slept in the car on the way back ?

When I read some of the stuff in this section, I sometimes wonder if I drink enough.

I know the feeling.

Moz honestly, your post is full of speculation, labels, and hypotheticals, but it unluckily misses the main point.

This war is Illegal and unprovoked and affecting real people. Supporting regime change and military action over human lives is a position in itself, and that's exactly what you are doing. So you know what, you’re insulting yourself.

You keep calling civilians radicals or projecting threats, but the real problems in the region come from power struggles, foreign interference, and ongoing violence that hits ordinary people.

Blaming entire populations or oversimplifying decades of conflict doesn’t make your argument stronger, it hides the reality.

Your points about protesters, civilians, and the Middle East ignore the human cost of the actions you back. Talking about numbers or regimes doesn’t change the fact that people are suffering.

Pointing out the consequences of this war isn’t personal, it’s just pointing out what actually happens.

So go ahead and call my replies “emotional” or “insulting,” but what matters is recognizing the real world impact of this conflict. Stop lecturing others while supporting policies that cost lives.

Well DB, just to be clear, the Pieter Stef du Toit wine farm visit was back in 2022.

I haven't been drinking for the last couple of years. It's my choice, and that's all there is to it. Believe it or not, I don't care.

Pointing out the consequences of this war isn’t personal, it’s just pointing out what actually happens.

Which would all be more credible if you pointed out the consequences for the Israelis killed in 2024, the Iranians killed protesting the rigged elections this year and the civilians killed by Iran’s deliberate targeting of civilian sites in this war. But complete silence on all that and the only time you are vocal is when there are victims of Israel or the US’s actions.

So forgive me if I find this hand wringing highly unbelievable.

if you pointed out the consequences for the Israelis killed in 2024,

What about the consequences for Palestinians killed in the 2020s in Gaza and the West Bank?

the Iranians killed protesting the rigged elections this year

Were the demonstrations legally authorised? They could still be alive if they abided by the law and stayed at home.

Liberals' disputes are always as funny.

as if this 'excursion' was necessary ...

Any war is an abomination - but it is not when ot comes to Ukraine and in the case of Gaza, When Trump stopd the Gaza War he was selling out the interests of the people of G azaa an the Paletinans. In the ase of the effoprt to stop the Ukraine War - rump was in the pocket of Putin and elling out he Ukrainians - a repeat of the R ussian Hoax xoncoc ted by C linton and Obama - with C linton claiin g s he h as doirect access to Putin;s inner sanctum.

Latest document release indcated hat Obama conocted the lies because they want to undermine Trump's first presidency and now the same BS is repeated on this site, Biden did nothin g to stop the Ukraine War - fact he did everything to aggrava te the situation,

S o on this site we ave members who preach and hope fo continuation of the Wars and now t he story is Ian has humilioated Trump and that is ubelievable garbage. The death toll in the present Warfare in Ian killed less people than th & Ocotober attack by Iran proxies in 2023 - but murder is no problem when committed by Iran nd its procies. In the Civil War in Syria orhestratd by the Ayatollah Regme and the ISIS attacks in Iraq and Syria caused hundreds of thousands of deaths of wo,en and children -but tht wa not a problem/ Wha happened after the collapse of the Iran-sponmsored civil war is not a problem.

When Biden fucked up the dfled of the USA from Afghanistan and 13 sodoers and over 250 Afghans were killed by terrorists in abul - tha was no problem - but he 13 US soldiers killed by Iran attacks caused a major catstrophe for which Trump is blamed,

Amazing - but reality and facts means nothing to the ste idiots - as long as they can spout hatred of Christoanity is an abomination - but Muslim fanaticism is foine as long as they kill and murxder 30 000 protestors it is fine in their books, But by accident a school situated in he same street block and immediately adjacent to an army base ot hit - it wa made out to be a targette atatck on a school - which obviously is BS supreme - the school issue was an obvious accident - but used by Iran propaganda on this site,

Obama and Biden caiued hundreds of thousands more people killed by Iran and its proxies but that is not a problem - but it is a catastrophe if Trump is involved, The bo,bing pf Libya by NATO and the USA was fine - but it caused ovil wars in Libya causing hundreds of thousands of casuaties with Iran prixies invovled - no problem - biut the hated Trump is all occupying their small minds,

If one believe the BS spiked on site by wehst I call villa ge idiots is clearly evident. No they lied and distort the situation further with stories that is so far-fetched,it biorders on them being adherents to the Iran Regime.

, ,

. ,

"Well DB, just to be clear, the Pieter Stef du Toit wine farm visit was back in 2022.

I haven't been drinking for the last couple of years. It's my choice, and that's all there is to it. Believe it or not, I don't care."

Good for you, I don't mind if you drink or not...you posted that recently and made it sound as if it happened recently...no skin off my back, I've got no problem with the responsible use of alcohol...in fact, I recommend it.

"as if this 'excursion' was necessary ..."

It was.

"This war is Illegal and unprovoked and affecting real people. Supporting regime change and military action over human lives is a position in itself, and that's exactly what you are doing. So you know what, you’re insulting yourself."

The alternative is costing more lives... illegal according to who's laws?.... Iran didn't care about any laws but their own when they executed a woman earlier this week, nor when they mowed down tens of thousands earlier this year...nor when the sponsored the murder of innocent civilians Oct 7 a few years ago... Palestinians, Americans and Israelis...might is right...I prefer America having the might instead of Iran...good luck in convincing sensible people otherwise...no one objected when Killery and Barry fcked over Gaddafi back in the day, and back then Brent went to over $150 a barrel... selective outrage...

... who'd you like more as SA president today? Cyril or Donald?.... Where's your outrage about Cyril's k@k every day? ...and there's plenty of material.

You seem a little worked up, M.

Try to chill.

Grrrr!!!

Môre Plum.

"Where's your outrage about Cyril's k@k every day? ...and there's plenty of material."

The difference is we all agree on any ANC "leader" we've had since Mandela. No-one is debating Cyril's corruption and cowardice . . . unless of course you want to defend him, Draad?

Howzit, Draad

How is co-pilot treating you?

PS it's called KO-pilot.

...I sense Rooi smiling somewhere in Randburg

I just have to add that I'm really struggling to not call out the blatant use of KO in this thread...somebody give me some words of encouragement.

Ko-Pilot.

LMAO!

Not Randburg anymore, Plum. Upgraded to Sandton last year.

Moz, it wouldn't matter if I mentioned the "Protester" tragedy another thousand times... your biased love for the "Oros Man" has got you seeing double ;)

DB, stop staring so deeply into that bottle of "KWV"...it might actually help you prove your claims with verifiable facts ;)

.no one objected when Killery and Barry fcked over Gaddafi back in the day, and back then Brent went to over $150 a barrel... selective outrage...

Remember, peeps, the great speculation: liberals are en route to kill hundreds of millions people. Which requires a specific mindset. That includes the inability to change one's tune.

Obama was blasted for his drone strikes (most of them happening in Iraq to suppress rebellious forces) The US were dragged in the Libyan mess because of France and England and Obama, the national traitor, considered his decision to involve the US a major mistake that he committed during his terms.

Due to factionalism, Obama was blasted by his own side while receiving tepid support from the republicans.

"DB, stop staring so deeply into that bottle of "KWV"...it might actually help you prove your claims with verifiable facts ;)"

I don't drink hard liquor...a few light beers now and then...and not enough to pass out in the back of a car afterwards...

m

m

Well DB, that’s rich coming from you, bragging on here once about how much brandy and coke you can drink and it does nothing to you…lol.

I’ll admit wine goes straight to my head and yes, I passed out in the car, so what? At least I can own it.

:-)

noun

noun: excursion; plural noun: excursions

1. a short journey or trip, especially one taken as a leisure activity.
2. "an excursion to London Zoo"

"Well DB, that’s rich coming from you, bragging on here once about how much brandy and coke you can drink and it does nothing to you…lol."

BS, I've never said anything of the sort...a bottle of brandy last a year in my house ...I said I drink at least one beer every day...

Are you on a nightshift or do you have oomouMaaik's slaap disorder ?

New job, odd hours...and wathed the UFC with my son...we boaght his first car tody...err yesterday afternoon.

He makes a persuasive case..