I wish those who stay and those who return to South Africa all the best….these are difficult decisions. Above all I wish their children all the best, they can’t make the decisions that will affect their whole lives.
I wish those who stay and those who return to South Africa all the best….these are difficult decisions. Above all I wish their children all the best, they can’t make the decisions that will affect their whole lives.
It's not just the US. People come back from Canada swearing they're never going back again, likewise Australia. We can say many bad things about SA, but we still have a remarkable level of freedom in this country. Places like Canada and Australia are much more regulated and rigid and that seems to be one of the things South Africans who come back struggled with most. Some will slot into that, we saw with covid that many people have no problem with being boxed in by regulations, but many struggle to adapt. And then on the other hand one of my acquaintances who is over in the US doing farming insists he is never coming back here if he can help it, he is very happy in the US. Different people, different experiences.
Places like Canada and Australia are much more regulated and rigid and that seems to be one of the things South Africans who come back struggled with most
I’m not familiar with Canada, but I do know Australia. I’m curious—how is it more regulated and rigid than South Africa?
I can't remember the specifics of the conversations, Denny, but that's the impression I got. It's obviously personal experiences so there may have been specific things that bugged specific people. The one example I remember from Canada is that you can't have a personal doctor, it goes through the system and you get assigned whoever is available when they're available. Over here you make an appointment today and walk in tomorrow to see the same doctor you've seen for the last 20 years.
The one example I remember from Canada is that you can't have a personal doctor,
That isn't true.
It’s pretty common to have a doctor of your own choice, I’ve been seeing mine for as long as I can remember. Funny though that SAFFA's think Oz is strict, while I’ve heard others say it’s actually pretty laid-back. For me, it feels laid-back. I know of a SAFFA who went back because no-one recognized him for being a tennis player like the kids in the street where he lived back home.
I meet and have met many happy South Africans over the years.
Why wouldn't they be, we have a lot in common, sport, braai and the great outdoors.
That isn't true.
Well, then people talk shit.
I hear you Denny. I also have acquaintances in Oz who've been there for decades and get on fine. I'll fish for more details if a returnee comes by this way again.
"I’m not familiar with Canada, but I do know Australia. I’m curious—how is it more regulated and rigid than South Africa?"
The law is being enforced...you can't speed on the freeways without being caught, fined and getting demerited.
Bob, that article is deliberately misleading ..more people are leaving every day ...very few people returning... there's always exceptions proving the rules.
The law is being enforced ......Well, there’s no point in making laws if they’re not going to be enforced....you can't speed on the freeways ......You mean breaking the law by going over the 110 km speed limit.....without being caught, fined and getting demerited. The demerit points system warns repeat offenders that they risk losing their licence if they accumulate more than 12 points.
I don't get your point, the laws are in place and enforced to make our roads safer for everyone.
It's a no-brainer.
BB
There is a problem people do not realize and that is internal migration i.n SA itself.
The only S A Province with normal government operation is the Western Cape. The Province is under Democratic Alliance control and more efficient Govenment control with ten times more efficiency in Government than the other nine Provinces.
Crime is low compared to other Provinces and corruption a huge margin less of what it is in the rest of SA. So those South Africans who can afford it has a first choice and that is to move from other Provinces to the Western Cape. However House Prices for sale is low in the other Provinces and rose rapidlym in t he Western Cape,
Let me giv you an example, In the early 1970's my Uncle bough t a h ouse in Pretoria for his son in Pretoria at a cost of R30 000 and a house in Riversdale at tfhe same price. My Cousin recently sold his house in Pretoria for R250 000 while his sister in Riversdale sold her house for R1 850 000. In 2015 I bought a house in Riversdale for R910 000 and if I put it in the market now it would be for R2 950 000.
That is a limiting factor for internal migration. Bit living in Cape Town for millionaires from foreign countries is still a paradise and they concentrated on ultra expensive areas like Constantia and Cliffton - as well as Stellenbosch, Franshhoek, and to a lesser extent .in Hermanus, Still Bay, Wilderness and Knysna - which manym fofrei gners reg ard as heaven on earth, . An example is Proncess Diana's brother lives in Constantia Her brother land his children speak (cousins of Prince Wliiam) all use Cape Town as t heir real homes in SA, One of them is in a relationship with Nic Mallett's son,
Due to exchange rates life is cheap in SA, In South Africa Hamburgers, chips and coke in SA cost $5 (R80) - in the USA it costs $19. The same applies o luxury meals and all oher food and living costs in SA..
Farm murders in the Western Cape is extremely rare - while in the other 8 provinces it is higher than the average norm per 100 000 is in the other 8 provinces is high and police and judicial services is a joke in bad taste.
I will give you a true story about the only murder in the past decade in Riversdale, A local drug dealer sold drugs and did not pay the suppliers in Cape Town. S o t hey got a gangster from Cape Town to kill the dealer. In the end the Cape Town police arrested the murderer and sent him to Riversdale for the trial. Thousands of residents surrounded the magistrates court causing a massive traffic jam and demanded the Police handed him to them - which was obviously refused - but the murderer was found guilty and copted a life in orison sentence, His life expectancy would not have been less than an hour if he was handed over,
. .
"I don't get your point, the laws are in place and enforced to make our roads safer for everyone.
It's a no-brainer.
Exactly as it should be, but how it isn't in SA...that was a bit of sarcasm from me.
Yeah I didn't get the idea that law enforcement was the gripe. Unfortunately these are passing conversations from a while ago so I don't remember the details, I'm a bad listener at the best of times when it's not people close to me.
I've got a guy coming over from Aus to visit family in SA later this month who will probably pass through my neck of the woods on his local travels, will see if I can have a chinwag with him and what differences he can highlight between here and there.
Ag Pakie, no need to worry, we’re a happy bunch down here. It’s a level playing field, and if you ever get the chance to pop into one of our gyms, you’d probably be amazed seeing our gals in the bare minimum—it kinda says it all......laid back if you get my drift. LOL
Cheers Denny, I'll do it for my own sake anyway so I have some proper information. If anything interesting comes up I'll report back. Enjoy the gym :)
I know Australia have lots of traffic restrictions we don't have...not all bad...none bad actually, but we're used to driving faster... we're used to making fire with wood for our brains, etc....and during Covid the government was much more authoritarian than most places ...but I'll take some of those restrictions any day of it also means that you've got law abiding citizens and a government and police authorities able and willing to enforce the law.
Just have a look at the road toll of South Africa's fatalities compared to Australia's to settle this debate. Unlicensed drivers in South Africa is like the common cold. Start there.
Our government has a target of 0 road fatalities and they are serious about achieving that target.
Our gun laws might also seem restrictive to you, but they’re effective and serve as a benchmark for their achievements.
Yes, I know...but those things only work in a law abiding society...SA isn't one of those...so the price for those so called freedoms are too high to pay...27K murders per year...
PS, although I've gained the freedom to own a gun...(SAs gun laws have become very restrictive.)...I now wear my safety belt religiously and I keep to the speed limit...if you get fined for any one of those 2 here, insurance is notified and your rate increases immediately...in SA I drove up to 150km/h on certain roads ...here I keep to the 65miph max....70mph highways are a novelty here...I suspect the same for Aus.
I’m about 20 minutes from the city, within a 5 km radius, there are 8 cameras around me. Some catch both speeding and red-light violations.
The fines are horrendous, and that’s on top of the demerit points.
No camaras in these parts, but the state troopers are everywhere and they all have radar...you don't want to mess with them.... everyone's driving at the speed limit, so if you speed you immediately stand out...$200 for not wearing a seatbelt.... probably the same or higher for speeding plus the increase in insurance.
Hardly ever see copper cars on the road these days, with the cameras doing a job the cops are more focused on other serious issues. I guess another benefit is that they are more than ready to attend to any emergency.
PS, I don't have a master on this earth...only a King in the next world...I just love seeing Trump disrupt the carefully crafted New World Order WEF horse sh!t....same playbook as in South Africa...and how did that experiment turn out? I've seen enough to know how it ends.
SpinJacinta Ngobese-Zuma
Ja, it's gonna get a lot uglier soon...hard times...
.I just love seeing Trump disrupt the carefully crafted New World Order WEF horse sh!t....same playbook as in South Africa...and how did that experiment turn out? I've seen enough to know how it ends.
It is very funny. No South African on this board does not condemn the Apartheid.
It is very funny. Trump is not trying to disrupt the new world order, he is trying to preserve it. Tells a lot when the behaviour is put in relation to the failed experiment in South Africa.
By the way, were Iranian protesters law abiding people? Were the demonstrations legal?
Simple questions liberals can not answer.
Does that mean all the South Africans living NZ can go and live in the USA?
Do you want them to leave NZ?
"Does that mean all the South Africans living NZ can go and live in the USA?"
Nope, it's only for Saffas in SA with no option of going somewhere else.
Let me just explain something about being fined in SA for speeding in t he Transkei - once in a rural area and once in Umtata, The fact is the first time it happened the traffic fine was R500 - or R200 if I pay them on site,
I was in a hurry to get to my mother's funeral and decided to pay the corrupt bastards the R200 - neve was issued a fine and neither a receipt either, They just pocketed the fine - welcome to the new South Africa,
The secnd time I wanted to pay the fine and went to their Umtata office to pay it - but after 3 hours I decided bugger them and left without paying and never got a summons to pay - another example of rank incompetence, Welcome to the new SA.
By the way on swallow does not make he summer. Plettenberg Bay is in h e Western Cape and a playground of millionaires - so if he family reside there they have plenty of money and maintain a millionaire lifestyle and the exchange rate make them near to poverty stricken in the USA. .
A number of young American tourists I spoke to told me the country is for them th ey eer encountered. They gave me an example-= in the USA a hamburger, chips and coke cost $19 - in S A the same cost $4.5 if the exchange rate is borne in mind,
.
b
They are hell bent on destroying everything they touch...they don't need to change the constitution, they can just keep on ignoring it when it suits them.
"they don't need to change the constitution....they can just keep on ignoring it when it suits them.
9,957 posts
Why South Africans are ditching Trump’s US to return home
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Despite the president’s claims of ‘white genocide’ and offer of asylum, expatriates are heading back to areas such as the Western Cape
Richard Assheton, Johannesburg
Saturday May 02 2026, 9.55pm BST, The Sunday Times
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With its white sandy beach and green hills, Plettenberg Bay on the Western Cape in South Africa is sometimes compared to California.
So Naomi Saphire’s decision to move her husband and three daughters there after 20 years in the United States was understandable. “I need the sun. I need the mountains,” the 46-year-old said.
She wanted her children to have a greater connection to their heritage — plus, schools and healthcare in South Africa were more affordable.
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But Saphire’s move may surprise President Trump, who announced last year that he would offer asylum to white South Africans, claiming they were suffering a “genocide” at the hands of the country’s black majority. President Ramaphosa of South Africa said he had told Trump in a phone call that this was not true.
KEVIN LAMARQUE/Reuters
Just under 4,500 South Africans have moved to the US since October, and Trump is reported to be planning to expand the programme. Saphire is one of an increasing number going the other way.
Recruiters have recorded an increase in enquiries from South Africans wanting to leave the US, and 12,000 people around the world have registered to reclaim their citizenship on a portal launched by the South African government in November for those who had lost it because of post-apartheid laws on dual nationality.
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Map: The Times and The Sunday Times
A significant chunk of these are thought to be US residents: about 156,000 people born in South Africa live in the US, according to the US Census Bureau’s most recent estimate, in 2024. That is the third largest community of South African expatriates, after just under 298,000 in the UK, according to the Office for National Statistics’ most recent estimate, in 2021, and 230,000 in Australia last year, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics.
Angel Jones, who runs a recruitment agency for returnees, HomecomingEx, based in Johannesburg, said: “A lot of it is related to Trump. This wide-open amazement at how the world can change … [people think], ‘actually, we’re not so bad at home after all’.”
On Facebook groups with tens of thousands of members, South Africans discuss their reasons for returning home. Some have cited shootings in the US, which make South Africa’s murder rates, some of the world’s highest, less terrifying. South Africa is also relatively isolated from geopolitical strife, despite the sour relationship with the Trump administration, which has put 30 per cent tariffs on South African imports.
Anton van Heerden, who runs DNA Employer of Record, an agency that puts returning South Africans in remote jobs for foreign companies, said: “You can’t walk around at night but at least you know there’s no threat of a missile hitting your building.” He has seen a 70 per cent rise in inquiries in the past six months, about a third of them from America.
After decades of emigration and talk of the country’s decline, for many South Africans, their home country is becoming an increasingly attractive place to live. Saphire grew up in Limpopo, near the border with Zimbabwe, but left 25 years ago to take a job on a cruise ship. She met her Swedish-born husband Danny, 52, an editor in Hollywood, while giving him a facial spa treatment.
They spent ten years in Los Angeles and ten years in Wake Forest, a small town in North Carolina, where Saphire owned a large spa and make-up academy, and the couple had three daughters born in the US, Silver, 15, Remy, 14, and Luna, 12.
But after taking her family to South Africa for the first time in 2022, Saphire realised what they were missing. “My kids were growing up without any family, without any true understanding of who they are and where they are from,” she said.
Silver recently came home from a hiking trip, the last leg of which was 26km along the beach. The family moved this year, for an initial trial of 18 months. “So far it’s going very, very well,” Saphire said.
Life is particularly sweet for those earning in dollars, pounds or euros and spending in the weaker rand. During the pandemic, Cape Town boomed with second homeowners and foreign digital nomads driving up prices. The cost of living is still much cheaper than in Europe or the US. Deloitte is among the companies that have enlisted Van Heerden’s services, recruiting South Africans to work remotely for Dutch clients.
In business circles there is cautious optimism the country may be turning a corner. The “load shedding” that caused power outages and has been a blight for years has largely been dealt with. The national power company, Eskom, announced last week that there would be no interruptions during the coming winter.
In October South Africa was removed from a key financial grey list by the intergovernmental Financial Action Task Force after implementing measures on money laundering.
Ramaphosa, whose African National Congress (ANC) is ruling in a coalition, has been credited with chipping away at the corrupt state architecture erected by his predecessor, Jacob Zuma. Crucial municipal elections in November will help to determine whether the most corrupt politicians have truly been sidelined.
Crime remains a glaring issue. Armed robbery is common in cities such as Johannesburg. Even in the safer Western Cape, the wealthy install heat cameras to scan the mountains for intruders. Many Afrikaners — white South Africans largely descended from Dutch settlers — believe the ANC has systematically shut them out of the nation’s wealth through its black empowerment laws.
Under the laws, companies are graded according to racial targets, and the government as well as many multinationals do business only with those under black ownership. There are companies that offer to buy shares to help others hit their quotas, at a large discount.
When I ask Saphire if she thinks there is a white genocide, her answer is surprising. “Yes,” she said. “Go and look at the leaders of some parties, who actually literally chant, ‘one bullet, one Boer’ [slang for an Afrikaner farmer]. They literally do that. They encourage the members of their party to go out of their way to annihilate a certain person with a certain colour skin.”
Julius Malema, the leader of the populist Economic Freedom Fighters party, which is not part of the ruling coalition, has regularly sung at rallies an anti-apartheid chant whose lyrics include the words “kill the Boer” repeated in Xhosa. In March Trump’s ambassador to South Africa, Brent Bozell, was forced to apologise to Ramaphosa’s government after criticising a court ruling that found the chant was not hate speech, because it was not meant to be taken literally. “I’m sorry, I don’t care what your courts say. It’s hate speech,” Bozell said. Zuma has chanted a version of it, Ramaphosa has not.
Claims of genocide by Trump and his former adviser Elon Musk, who was born in South Africa, focus on attacks on white farmers. During Ramaphosa’s visit to the Oval Office last year Trump had a lengthy video played which he said proved the claims, telling the South African president: “You’re taking people’s land and those people in many cases are being executed.” Trump also shared on social media video he said showed a mass funeral of Afrikaner farmers, which in fact showed white crosses lined up in a 2020 protest against decades of farm attacks.
Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images
Independent South African monitoring groups say attacks have declined since a wave of violence in the late 1990s, and represent a tiny fraction of the country’s murders (about 0.2 per cent). About 50 people are killed on South African farms each year, compared with 60 or 70 people every day in the country as a whole.
Most victims on farms are black. Between January and March last year, the latest period for which official data has been published, one white farm worker was murdered, compared with five non-white farmers. Ministers insist the attacks are motivated by robbery, not race. Those claiming asylum appear to come from rural communities that are more exposed to poverty and crime than the professional classes who are moving back to South Africa.
Saphire said there were safety risks in South Africa, but that there were in the US too. “[South Africa’s] a really nice place to be,” she said. “You know, and I always say to people, the US has many places that you would never go to. I would never go to Detroit and just walk around.”
She has, however, been following news of two recent murders near Plettenberg Bay. In January, Jane Luck, 71, a psychologist and art therapist, and her husband Rolf, 77, a geophysicist, were killed at their farmhouse in the Crags, outside the town. Also in January, the body of a former police detective, Nicky van Heerden, 54, was found on a sand dune in the bay. Van Heerden’s white boyfriend, a driftwood artist called Bevan van Druten, 53, has been arrested on suspicion of her murder. Christiaan Branders, 34, who was out on parole after murdering an elderly woman in 2009, has been charged with the murder of the Lucks.
Adele Van Rooyen, 57, a handywoman and holistic therapist, also from Limpopo, is moving to Cape Town after 13 years in Louisiana. Having broken up with her American wife, she is selling her house and hopes to move this year.
Among many reasons, she misses the “warmth” of the people (“even the British are friendlier than the Americans in general”) and she has become jaded with US politics, she said. “Politics plays a huge role here. It’s almost like how soccer is in the UK.”
An Afrikaner, she is moving despite what she considers “reverse apartheid” under the black empowerment laws, which she says she will get around as she is self-employed.
An official survey from 2024 suggests white people still occupy as many as three in five management positions in South African companies, despite accounting for only 7 per cent of the population, according to the nation’s 2022 census.
Jones said her brother-in-law had just moved to Sydney as he could not go further than second-in-command at one of the big retailers. “So we lost him. We call them ‘pale males’,” she said.
Saphire is thinking about opening a new spa, and is converting her husband to his new life. He has made a video of the family featuring lions, 4x4s and beaches. She said: “I honestly think there’s just something magical about South Africa.”
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