Can't believe the bald Italian gets to ref the final.
Can't believe the bald Italian gets to ref the final.
Leinster putting the Bulls scrum under pressure and they get the penalty.
Another penalty Leinster. 5m lineout.
Howzit Paks...
This ref!
Why this guy???
And try. Conan over.
Conan is over. Prendergast converts and it's 7-0 to Leinster.
ButtPlug, has there ever been a game where you didn't moan about the ref? Even once?
Howzit Plum. No idea why this idiot is reffing. 7-0 Leinster.
A dude that had to take some time off during this very tournament to get reacquainted with the laws of the game shouldn't be reffing a final.
Bulls just can't get any possession.
Better passage for the Bulls.
Handbags and of course play has to be stopped for that. What a sissy game this is turning into.
That's not an eye gouge, get on with it.
He didn;t get to ref the final because he's an idiot. When you guys bitch and moan about his decisions, be sure to tell us exactly what he did wrong.
Harold Vorster lucky to not get a card for an eye-gouge attempt.
Oh god is this gonna be yellow card for a hand touching the guys face?
Penalty only.
Eye gouge?
Do you know where the eyes are located?
Congrats to Bath on winning the Premiership. Pollard missed a pretty easy penalty kick that cost Leicester the game.
Everything looks worse in super slomo. Full speed there was not even a chance that was an attempted gouge.
Jordie scores. My streams are chugging.
Jordie Barrett kicks through and scores. I wonder if that was also the ref's fault?
14-0.
14-0
Kriel does really well to beat defenders and offload but Vorster drops it.
Kriel beats three, gets the offload to Vorster who drops it.
Iere is taai in Dublin asit reën....kom Kalfies.
Ref blows too early but fixes his mistake. Leinster with an attacking lineout.
WTF he already blew!!!
Willie with a poor kick but lucky that Lowe knocks it on.
Willie se kop raas!
Nice one Willie.
Bulls better switch on or they're going to get a drubbing.
The ball was out. The ref made the right call after getting it wrong intially. The fact that he blew too early had no impact on the game and he ended up with the right decision.
Scrum penalty Bulls.
Support player was surely impeded there for Leinster?
Maybe not. Lineout 5.
Van der Vlier scores. Looks like the Bulls are going to get a hiding today.
And another try. Van der Flier fliers over.
Prendergast misses the conversion. 19-0.
At this rate, not sure I'll be watching the second half...
19 - 0
Lyk my Leinster se droogte word vanaand gebreek.
Ja well if they keep kicking the precious little possession they get back to the opposition they're not going to get anywhere. That's what I said last week, if they're going to do this "non-playing-playing" thing that they did for much of the game against the Sharks they are going to get beat.
Jake unfortunately has the tendency for excessive caution and conservatism in playoffs. Doesn't work if the other team came to play.
Prendergast overcooks his cross kick otherwise Leinster were in again.
Leinster are constantly in front of the kicker and the linesman apparently can see it
Goosen's kicking out of hand has been abysmal
Love Pompus claiming Vorster tried an eye gouge…what a tit
And more kicking possession away.
STFU Moffie.
Now Bulls throw in skew at the lineout. Leinster back on attack.
I get the feeling this game is going to be a whole lot of kick tennis.
Leinster only want to kick.
The Bulls need to adapt
Marcel needed someone to run onto his offload at pace, huge space next to him. Bulls getting close though.
Bulls laying siege to the Leinster line and lose it but penalty advantage was being played. Bulls still on attack . . . Leinster knock on and Bulls have the attacking scrum. They have to score here to stay in this.
Coetzee picks and goes but the Bulls are being tackled backwards . . . Bulls refuse to send it wide and are still in possession but going nowhere. Now they send it to the backs but Willie kicks it straight back to Leinster.
Cobus wiese off for a HIA, replaced by Jannes Kirsten.
And after 50 bashes that made 1 meter of ground Willie just kicks it to Leinster.
Willie having a nightmare
Seriously...Willie?
Kicks possession away.
To be fair, Leinster were offside about 10 times there during those Bulls phases
I'm having serious doubts about watching the second half, this is some tragic rugby.
Pompus we are all watching the game….no need for the obvious commentary
That last lineout throw by the Bulls was just as skew as the one they were pinged for. Bulls get a penalty.
STFU Moffie.
These match day threads are for rugby, not for your childish little taunts.
Gotta be a yellow coming if Leinster keeps leaking penalties like this in the red zone.
If the pick and go was a couch the springs would be sticking out of it now from the Bulls wearing it out.
Bulls on attack just before half time . . . they bash it up until it goes wide to Moodie who doesn't back himself and then Willie throws a forward pass and it's half time. 19-0.
Again ….stop providing commentary….we don’t need it Pompus you tit.
The South African teams just have ZERO backline play.
In that final passage of play, Leinster had 11 of there 15 players around the ruck and the Bulls just refuse to send it to the line.
I don't get it.
We may as well play with a pack of forwards and 7 flankers.
Watching Coetzee running from a standing start into a pod of defenders can only have a bad result.
I'm gonna do something else and keep an eye on the Supersport live updates to see if anything interesting is happening. This is painful to watch.
Now let me get this straight. The Bulls played Jakeball; withlout any game plan. Whenever somebody tries to move the ball to the backline it reached Willie who makes shit kicks losing territory in the process, I am always a great admirer of Willie - but under Jakeball he is a bloody liability,
Big difference in the match - Leinster played rugby the Buls did not, .
Moffie, why don't you write a strongly-worded letter to the Editor telling him that naughty Rooinek is commenting on the rugby game? Just stop whining like a little bitch.
I’m just hoping…..thick as you are…..you finally realize posting drivel like:
Prendergast misses the conversion. 19-0
….adds zero. If by some miracle you have something interesting to say feel free to do so. Otherwise shut it.
Bulls are looking BS.
Wessels being worked in every scrum is destroying the Bools scrum
RooiNuts very rarely has anything interesting to add.
It part of why he's such a knob. He knows exactly what an uninteresting bore he is and it frustrates him.
Akker vd Meeeerv
Bulls not giving up!
The Bulls just need a little momentum and to make a few less mistakes, they have a chance.
Akker makes a difference to the scrum as well
Finally the Bulls are getting some scum dominance.
This could be the momentum they need...
Leinster miles off side in half the loose scrums
Okay...there goes the scum dominance.
Leinster getting away with pushing early
58 mins gone and if Leinster score again then I'm switching off
My word that offload by RG was good
Is this guy really Ireland's kicker?
He's friggin terrible
The irony the ref calls the Bools offside when Leinster has been off all game
De Klerk injured and the Bulls have zero ideas.
I'm done.
Can't be bothered to watch the last 15 minutes of this absolute shit show.
Back to watch the last bit. We call scores and replacements etc. all the time on these threads.
Another penalty for Leinster and Pretendergast will go for the 3. 25-7
Now Akker slips and drops the pass. Would probably have been a slightly more watchable game at Loftus.
Leinster drops the pass, Bulls immediately kicks it back to them.
Willie should probably just leave the field, don't even bother replacing him.
And Leinster show the Bulls some rugby and score again.
32-7. This has been an embarrassment for SA rugby.
Oh now the Bulls want to run it, 25 down with 5 minutes to go.
Pathetic seeing Nienaber in his subservient role. That said the Leinster defence is watertight.
Wonder how RG feels playing against his team mates and vice versa.
Non event, Bulls were awful, Ladyboys coast it in 2nd gear.
LOL, and still the Bulls kick it back to Leinster, even 25 points down. Clueless.
Well that was the best of SA provincial rugby. Jake, bless his little shoes and all he has achieved, can't coach finals to save his arse.
Outplayed, outclassed, outdone...A useful as tits on a bull.
What bothered me is the TOTAL ABSENCE of a GAME PLAN for the match,
I forecasted a win by Leinster - but only by a 7 points margin. That shows somethig wrong with the team management..
Here's what I truly believe Jake tells the lads once it's playoffs time:
"Okay boys, remember all we've done this season? How we've molded the forwards into a well oiled unit that hunts like a pack and physically dominates whatever gets in their way? Remember the lines we ran to score, the offloads we used to put people away and keep the momentum going, the runner we had on every shoulder? Well, forget all of that shit. All I want you to do in these last games is to kick whatever possession we manage to secure back to the other guys and hope they don't know what to do with it, and to pick and go until something breaks. None of the other stuff, just that."
The joke is that worked against the Sharks because they really didn't know what to do with all that free and easy possession, but it was never going to work against a remotely competent side.
What a pathetic lame performance that was
Commentators said Jake prayed for rain - well he got that but we saw no plan to capitalise on his pray
Yeah watched Jakes after match press conference and he mentioned it himself but also said that basically in order for the Bulls to beat a team like Leinster it would require Leinster to have a bad game.
Came across as a totally defeatist attitude. It doesn't require Leinster to have a bad game, it requires a team to make Leinster have a bad game.
Northampton beat Leinster in the Champions Cup Semi final and they are not as good a team as Leinster but they won that match on the day, wasn't Leinster losing it.
It's alright being a realist as Jake says and say yeah sure on paper full strength Leinster at home will beat the Bulls 7 times out of 10 or whatever, but you still need to have you players believe that if they play to their full potential they can win on the day.
Well done Leinster.
Strange to think we’ve beaten both of the URC Finalists this season ;)
Congrats to the Irish ... Bulle were woeful. An embarrassment.
This type of rugby is typical Jake White teams gameplan or lack thereof in play-off games and finals, Lets gove some examples:-
So why does it happen in critical matches where wins could have helped the teams coahed by White/ Pakie gave an exact description of what happened to the teams coached by White - I could not describe it better, But there is another issue that I have never seen in teams coached by White and seen in evey critical match the Springboks used systematically by Erasmus, Study the pro's and con"s of every opposition player and in defense and in attacks neutralize them by playing to each player weaknesses with defense against their strengths by systematic defense.
The trend over the years became apparant - when playing in critical games kicked he shit out of balls, I develop a name for the game plan in critical games - it is called Jakeball and means not playing real rigby at all.. The difference between Meyer and White alweays was is thatWhuite had one siccessful tirunament to brag about - Meyer was worse since he never won in anything and White could count on the 2007 RWC in his favor,
I myself wonder how long Motsepe and Rupert would put up with White as coach, They would rather consider replacing him with any other coach and even Nienaber springs to mind, All A franchise coaches bar theLions have poor coaches. I think if the Lions had the money to recruit and retain players the Bulls and Sharks have they managed to play better rugby in some games than the Bulls and Sharks managed in critical matches.
So the Sharks, Bulls and Stormers need top class coaches and they should strive to find better coaces than they had ove the last two years,
.
There is the not insignificant point of flying to Ireland and having 5 days to recover and play the match. Time again in super rugby we saw teams underperforming the first match after flying.
Lots of criticism of the Bools tactics….but they are the Springbok rugby tactics. Defend, kick and scrum. Today Wessels was dominated so the scrums never worked…and the tactical kicking was poor. But here are some stats which might surprise you:
Possession and Territory was 50/50…the Bools beat 20 defenders to 13…made 78% of their tackles to 79%.
The biggest difference was Leinster had 10 clean breaks to 1. The Bulls defence was too narrow when breached. Leinster defended brilliantly, perhaps Nienaber had a role. And there were a few odd bounces of the rugby ball, eg in Barrett’s try.
Apart from the disappointing scrumming, the Bools were horribly predictable near the oppo goal line. But we saw the same tendencies in the Boks vs Ireland last year. Where we scored 24 points in the second test….all off Pollard’s boot.
The tactics are okay if the it’s the Boks and the win…but not okay if it’s the Bools and they lose. It’s dead head rugby either way
Mozart
Lots of criticism of the Bools tactics….but they are the Springbok rugby tactics. Defend, kick and scrum. Today Wessels was dominated so the scrums never worked…and the tactical kicking was poor. But here are some stats which might surprise you:
The Springboks do NOT play a similar game plan to what was used yesterday by White. You refuse to accept that the game plan used by Meyer and Coetzee were changed drastically by Erasms and claim the kick and chase game is still what it was in 2015 - when you called it "traditional Springbok rugby".
Under White in 2007 it was the same as 2015 - accept in the Round Robin matches where Jones presence was clear - but White himself claimed that perhaps he is to be blamed for not been able to win in play-off matches and finals since 2007. It was confirmed when Smit wrote in his book about the 2007 final - namely there were NO provision for attacking rugby by planning for attacks that could be used to score tries.
Fact is there were one example in 2007 and what happened yesterday thrice, In 2007 the Springbks only attack ended up on the five meter line and the forwards tried repeatedly to score until the Springboks lost ball possession. It did not happen yesterday once - it happened at least 3 times, The Bulls backline did not line up for such a pofential attack oppomttiy situation where the balls could be past to them - most of the players were trying to become part of the fiorwards tying to score tries, Needless to say in all three occassions the result were the same - in the end no tries scored and no successful backline attack.
So please stop your twisted desciptions as to what happened in matches and when you make sure that stories about what happened under Ersmus is not just twssted BS. The Sprinboks won the first test against the Irish and lost the second one by 1 point due to two dropkicks they made - not by 25 points yesterday, Get real.
. .
Moz that is absolute bullshit, the only time the Boks played a predominantly kicking game was post Covid as Rassie said they had to keep it simple as no rugby had been played for a while
The Boks kick it no more or less than any other top sides out there these days in fact if memory serves me correctly we kick it less than most of the sides
The Bulls were given piss poor direction in that final
I thought Wessels at scrum time conceded the advantage every time on the engage, he has plenty to learn - I guess player hooker one week then loosehead the next is not serving his development that well
Goosen channel was also targeted early on where he was exposed defensively only because he had big guys physically dominating him
No plan was put in place to counter that obvious weakness
Dave
I agree with you and stay with what I wrote, about the match.
The other BS story is the travel issue, There is an hour time difference between Ireland and SA time in NH Summers and that does not affect the players in the same way as flights to Australia and New Zealand do. Being in Ireland for 4 or 5 days before the match should have had no impact on the match on Saturday.
These players spend their lives travelling it’s no longer an excuse
Travel didn't affect Munster or Glasgow in 2023 and 2024 finals.
It's so damn sad to see the absolute lack of IQ in SA rugby.
And if it hasn't changed by now it likely never will.
I maintain, Swys and Akkerman were the best coaching duo we've ever had.
They knew how to balance attacking responsibility between backs and forwards. No other coach before or since has come close to figuring that out...in SA.
It was Springbok rugby….how many times have we seen the bull like charges at the line without an offload. Oddly the Bools do offload well, but when the chips were down in the final they reverted to charging the ramparts. Everybody got the ball standing still as well.
As for the travel of course it affects your metabolism. Anybody who has flown UK/SA knows that.
Just the usual the stupid comments by those who are anti Jake
As for kicking, here are the WC kick/runstats in the knockouts:
NZ 18%/ Boks30%
Eng 33%/Boks 30%
France 13%/ Boks 25%
Draw your own conclusions. We play the same game as England….not France or NZ. Set pieces/kick/defend.
We score tries from mauls and turnover pressure. When the Boks are in the oppo 25 and have to construct a try they look much like the Bools did yesterday.
As for the travel of course it affects your metabolism. Anybody who has flown UK/SA knows that.
It does but given the results of the last two years, it can't be used as an excuse.
Just the usual the stupid comments by those who are anti Jake
I'm not anti Jake, I've defended him in the past, but I found his attitude after the game defeatist. If he was like that before the match all it would have done is undermine the team's confidence.
I suspect that White will be obless by the end of June 2025 with a new coach to be appointed qithin a week or two since the URC tournament in 2025-26 starting on 26 August 2025.
I will be he first to wish him well for the future .if that happens.
18% vs 30 is probably all of 3 more kicks in a whole game - this notion that we kick so much more than other sides is a load of rubbish - chances are you are going to play it more conservatively in WC knock out games anyway
I bet the % are closer in non WC games
We score tries just like other sides do - maul tries are high on the list of all sides. Our wings have the highest potential f strike rates for a reason
This rubbish about the Bulls players being inferior to the Leinster players is also rubbish - Irish caps and all - well that made little impression on Northampton a few weeks ago
It’s about having the right gameplan and attitude - Jake has been pathetically defeatist and his post match analysis evidenced that. He should be sacked on the strength of his negativity - those Bulls had no chance given their coaches attitude
What happens when the Bulls face Leinster next season with his players having heard Jakes concessions
Player comparisons
Willie vs their 15 - I don’t even know his name - Willie all day long
Lowe vs Moodie - I’m taking Moodie despite Lowe being a class act
de Klerk vs their wing - again nothing in it
Ringrose vs Kriel - you take Ringrose for his experience but we know how good Kriel is so nothing in it
Vorster vs Jordie - Jordie all day long
Goosen v Pen - Goosen walks it
Papier vs their replacement 9 - Papier all day long
Wessels vs Porter - Porter gets it for his experience but Wessels has been awesome all season - a poor engagement in the final does not define him
Grobelaar vs Sheenan - Sheenan walks it but Grobelaar is damn good
Wilco vs their 3 - no contest Wilco blindfolded
Wiese vs McCarthy - nothing in it
JF vs Ryan - nothing in it
v Staaden vs vd Vlier - vd Vlier but v Staaden is a Bok
Nortje vs their 7 - nothing in it
Coetzee vs Conan - nothing in it
So Leinster have an edge but not to the point you concede - much like the Saints never did
It’s thanks to that pathetic defeatist attitude of Jake thst saw his team having no chance
Watson derangement syndrome
Oh is it now - which of these Leinster players are far superior to the Bulls and how come the Saints had no difficulty putting Leinster away huh?
Reality vs your bullshit
Let’s see:
Ringrose….Lion
Lowe…Lion
vd Flier…Lion
Sheehan…Lion
Conan…Lion
Kelleher…Lion
McCarthy…Lion
Porter…Lion
Ryan….Lion
So 10 Lions , Snyman the best #5 lock in the world and Jordie Barrett NZ’s incumbent 12.
Pretty much a Lions equivalent team. Reality vs your fantasies Dave. Get real man and fight against that Watson Derangement Syndrome. It’s screwed you up for 20 years, time to go cold turkey.
So explain Northampton beating them then
Willie - a Bok
Moodie - a Bok
Goosen - a Bok
Papier - a Bok
Wessels - a Bok
Grobelaar - a Bok
Wilco - a Bok
Cobus Wiese - about to be a Bok
v Staaden - a Bok
Nortje - a Bok
Coetzee - a Bok
Aker - a Bok
11 Boks plus 1 to be capped within a month and let’s face it David Kriel should be a Bok and lock JF v Heerden will be a Bok soon
The Boks beat the Lions
Case closed
Correction let’s get current:
Willie a Bok
Moodie a Bok
Wessels a Bok aspirant
Wilco a Bok
Nortje a Bok
Wiese a Bok
Van Staden a Bok
That makes 7 Bools in a 45 man Bok squad…..vs 10 Lions in a 38 man Lions team…12 equivalents if we add Barrett and Snyman. And of your team of current Boks and aspirant Boks, exactly one player Wilco, was in our last serious test against England last November. The Bools’ Boks are largely yesterdays men and a few unproven youngsters.
And we narrowly beat the Lions at home….the Bools played Leinster away with 6 days and 12 hours of flying time to prepare.
Game, set and match. Get over your WDS!
Here goes reality
Porter, Sheenan and Lowe are the only Leinster players that will start for the Lions
vd Vlier and Ringrose might make the bench
Id expect us to only just beat the Lions - so what we beat them
Flight and 6 days is a piss poor excuse
But most importantly you keep avoiding the key question, how did Northampton manage to beat them?
Answer that question
Simples, it was an upset:
‘This competition has seen a few remarkable results over the years but few to match this sweetest of Saints days. Maybe Leinster thought that a fourth successive Champions Cup final appearance was a formality against supposedly outgunned English opposition. If so they were made to pay a heavy price with a triple whammy of tries from Tommy Freeman.’
Just as it would have been an upset if the Bools beat Leinster. You keep making my points for me…gracias!
And perhaps this will help you understand the effects of travel:
| Performance MetricTypical Impact RangeSource/Context | ||
| Win Probability | ? 10–25% | Super Rugby studies; team travel analyses |
| Points Scored | ? 3–7 points per match on average | Mitchell et al. 2017; travel fatigue models |
| Tackle Completion % | ? 2–5% | Super Rugby & IRB data reviews |
| Linebreaks & Metres Gained | ? 10–15% | Performance tracking post-travel |
| Reaction Time / Decision Accuracy | ? 5–10% (psychomotor and cognitive) | General sports science (Fullagar et al. 2015) |
| Injury Risk | ? 10–20% | Jet lag & fatigue-related risk assessments |
Ah an upset lol
Using travel as an excuse in this day and age is equally laughable
Bottom line is Jake’s pathetic defeatist attitude had his team losing the game before they even stepped onto the field
Travel is not an excuse, and even Jake didn't use it as an excuse. Yes it has an effect but both Munster and Glasgow won finals after travelling to SA with a one week turn around.
Yes, it does impact teams, but all teams face the same challenges. Finishing at the top of the tournament gives that team an advantage, which is fair since they earned it by winning the rounds. Teams that win the knockout league should always be given an advantage, like a seeding system.
‘It has an effect…but it’s not an excuse’. It’s a handicap, probably worth about a try if you believe the research. Obviously it can be overcome, the examples you cite. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t a factor.
Have you accepted a team with 12 Lions level players if you include Snyman and Barrett has an advantage on a team that has one player who made the last Bok match 23.
And when you add the 5 point travel handicap, it was a hard ask.
Are these simple facts which apparently eluded you coming into focus?
Nope there are 11 Boks in the Bulls side and only 3 of the Leinster are certain starters
The Boks beat the Lions
Northampton beat Leinster
The travel these days means fuck all as Glasgow and Munster proved
Look no further than Jake with his defeatist attitude that gave his side no chance
Get the Irish beat the Boks….down goes Dave in flames…hahaha,
And the Boks beat the Irish
Nope since the 2019 WC Ireland lead 3 games to 1, having played 2 of the 4 games in South Africa and only 1 in Ireland……hahahaha, flames Dave, down in.
That’s a long time ago
It has nothing to do with Leinster thumping the Bulls who were beaten by Northampton a few weeks ago proving that a side with less test players in its ranks is more than capable of winning
Whether Moart likes it or not under Easmus's coaching the Springoks one multple trophies uder White it as not so. Fact remains that no teams coached by White since 2007 no trophies were won.
After the previous week's game against the Sharks I thought the chance of the Bulls beating Leinster was remote, as I said on the Sharks string. I could already see the type of game they were going to play. They never backed themselves. If you go in expecting defeat, at least give it a proper shot and go down swinging. Many giants have been slayed in this game. Think of little Despatch smashing the Springbok and Northern Transvaal studded Tukkies in the 1985 club final.
Well that was all thanks to bloody Jake telling everyone he was so envious of the Leinster side and that his side had no chance it hell
It was pathetic to listen to - that defeatist attitude will have rubbed off on the players
His players having heard that pathetic post match rant by Joke White will be filled with confidence the next time they face Leinster - they might as well concede that game now
Looks like Jake could be on his way out and it's in part linked to the comments he made after the defeat to Leinster.
Jake just doesn't have staying power. It appears my assessment of him keeps ringing true - get him in to fix a mess, but let him go after 2 years. That's about when he peaks before the backroom shenanigans and conflicts kick off.
Indeed Pakie...he's got a fine rugby brain, but his people skills sucks...the umpteenth player revolt and at the bools nogal...
11,571 posts
Looks wet. Blegh.