3 Dead Head moves by Allende which cost possible tries in the first 6 minutes!

Forum » Rugby » 3 Dead Head moves by Allende which cost possible tries in the first 6 minutes!

Nov 06, 2019, 02:12

Firstly Willie has the ball opposite Ford and slides outside him forcing the gap. Allende is outside him, marked by Farrell. As Willie looks to break free Farrell turns inside to help. That's the moment a smart, fast centre would have gone outside Farrell and been in position for an offload.

Allende inexplicably tries to run through the gap Farrell has closed and finds himself blocked behind Farrell. So he slows down and trots behind the move. Willie looks to offload to his right where Allende should  be....nada....Kolbe who was on the touchline tries to get in position but he's  too far away for an offload. Chance lost.

Secondly the Boks get the ball well inside the Pom 22....it goes to Allende with a pod of 3 forwards opposite him.....then a gap in the Pom defence to Underhill further away. A natural centre would have run outside  Itoje on the open  side of the pod....forcing Underhill to come in and exploited the resultant overlap. 

Or as an Alternative, he could  have shaped to offload in Itoje's tackle to Malherbe who was positioned in the gap. Instead Allende crash balls into the three forwards and the Pom defence reforms, opportunity gone. A centre like Goodhue would have turned both of these situations into try scoring chances.

The third dead head move was allowing May, pinned against the touchline, to step inside him. Make that tackle with the aid of the touchline and we either have a 2 on 1 at the breakdown on their line....or a lineout throw 5 metres out. But instead of making a good low tackle we see the familiar upper body paw and May waltzes away.

Three excellent chances in the first six minutes...all blown by slow thinking and sloppy execution. Why do the rugby talking heads and writers fail to see these obvious things? Hard to say....and there will be more instances. Instead of seeing these things as they do in American Football they blather on about power, power which beat 1 defender in 12 runs....and vote this one dimensional centre into the WC team.

Nov 06, 2019, 02:16

Image result for shit hits fan gif

Nov 06, 2019, 02:34

American Football is results driven, and has a deep and rich culture for x's and o's. Rugby is a long, long, long way from that. They also pass knowledge down. Jake White lamented this years ago, he called for a central hub for coaching where technical insights could be shared and a coaching culture at the highest level established. He remarked that we don't really know who our best coaches are outside of a handful of names. He was right. Imagine the impact his ideas would have had on South African rugby? Instead of following trends, trying to keep up, we'd be innovators, ahead of the curve. Intelligent people are not welcome in South African it seems. Here we are, with twaddled peddled passively. Many times foreigners don't know better but just tell us what we like to hear, praising names they know we love. It was funny in 2015 though. Cheika praised Damian mightily, yet went after him to great effect, essentially winning the game entirely through that concentrated effort. Even after that, it wouldn't be for another two years that Damian's ability was questioned. Analytics is the most valuable skill a person can possess, but it leads to a lot of frustration. 

Back to the World Cup, there are many instances of our players playing like this, especially the big names. They can look good at times, such as the routine passing of Damian, but these are scripted sequences. Lambie used to do the same thing, take the ball to the line and pass to a predetermined target, but outside of that he couldn't think. Neither can Damian. Damian panics when in space, yet his best work is in space, which he craves. It's easier to just run into someone. Esterhuizen is a very smooth operator in space, with some of the best distribution of all our players. Esterhuizen and RG are the best offloaders in South African rugby. Neither one can break into Rassie's team. Both are significantly more imposing specimens than their preferred lumbering buffoons. Damian is not a natural 12, and it shows. Esterhuizen has a good feel for space and pressure, he reads the game well and makes proactive decisions. On defence we see this, as he catches attackers well behind the gainline, forcing the opposition to rush their entire gameplan. 

Its a sad sight that more deserving people are not being rewarded for their good work. If there is something I loath more than anything else, it's mediocrity and the adoration of it. South Africa loves mediocrity like no other. You uncovered three more details which will remain untouched by the media and the fans. Even some of our coaches miss these things. We wonder then why we never succeed as a nation. 

Nov 06, 2019, 05:20

The best centres have a bit of vision, they see the space, the counter move, the response to the counter move. In the case where Underhill left the space it was dead simple to commit the two defenders....Barrett did exactly that in the pool  game.

These things aren't 'mistakes' that are picked up in the stats. They are omissions, lost opportunities. But it's incredibly rare that they are picked up, let alone criticized. Critical commentators are iced....critical journalists don't get any scoops.

Nov 06, 2019, 06:24

Wonderful analysis of further  BS TO BE EXPECTED AS THE NORMAL BS BY THE TWO BEST PREJUDICED BS IN THE WORLD ONLY THEY COULD DISCOVER.   WILL YOU NEVER STOP WITH THAT IF IDIOT STORIES.   Anyway they would always have discovered this type of rubbish. 

Did not even bother to read the whole IF theory.   I have learned one thing about those two analysts is that they are experts in BS spreading.  Never expect the truth from them,.  

Heaven help us - lucky Esterhuizen donkey was not in the squad - it would have been goodbye to the WC and Erasmus knew it and avoided him like a plague in squad selection.   


Nov 06, 2019, 06:24


Nov 06, 2019, 07:30

Omellete and Omlett still trying very hard to convince everyone that our Springbok heroes are losers and only they are clever enough to see this.

I'm actually a bit surprised that more posters aren't taking these two clowns to task for their stance on people like Rassie, Pieter-Steph and De Allende. Maybe there are even more Servile Gimps on this forum than I thought?

Surely some of you can see that these two stupid and conceited rugby noobs are making up a whole load of rubbish just to cover their own ignorant, biased and prejudiced comments about our coach and the players they hate . . . and that they have copious amounts of egg sliding down their stupid faces?


If you do see that, why are so many of you staying silent and allowing our Springbok heroes to be trashed?

Nov 06, 2019, 07:31

"Wonderful analysis"

Yes, it was. He got up off his backside and brought some useful info to the board. What have you done in all your 38700 posts? Post lineups? Fantasy rugby? What have you brought? Moz has made some very specific claims with references. If you don't like them, refute them. It's that simple. If you cannot, then you can in no way determine that he is wrong/stupid/lying. You never get out of first gear in these exchanges. 

Nov 06, 2019, 07:47

I do not need to respond to anything you write on site - you are doing well enough in discrediting yourself.    I do not have to prove Mozart wrong on any BS he dreams up other than to mention that is routine rubbish you and him regard as rugby input and is in fact totally unrelated to what actually happened during games.     

Nov 06, 2019, 08:04

"I do not need to respond to anything you write on site"

Yet you do anyway! You can't help your poor little self. Still, no rugby input. Thirty-eight thousand posts ad not a solitary occurrence of such a thing. Feeble is putting it mildly. You can't offer anything, yet feel compelled to speak 
authoritatively determining what is right and wrong. 

ou are doing well enough in discrediting yourself."

Nothing to date. Hard luck.

 I do not have to prove Mozart wrong on any BS he dreams up"

That's not how it works sweety. I don't know how coddled your upbringing was, but I am beginning to think you were literally wrapped in bubble-wrap. If you are going to state it's a fact that someone is wrong, you are going to have to show how and why. If you are going to tell someone they are stupid/worthless/a cunt/fucker/need to be murdered etc... those things can very easily result in your big mouth being busted apart. You talk very big behind a keyboard Lügnerin. In the real world, you'd be accountable for those words. I see you are all too comfortable attacking people from a point of safety. Just because it's the internet, it doesn't change the magnitude of what you say, revealing a very poor character and lack of maturity. 

You won't even attempt a retort, you are so arrogant that you say you can determine who should and shouldn't post, what is right and wrong and talk to people any way you please, expecting no repercussions. You are a mess. Consider yourself fortunate anyone entertains you at all. 

Nov 06, 2019, 08:08

De Allende was easily one of the top 3 best player in the Goats side.

Let's give credit where credit is due.

The Goats can be thankful that Esterhuizen didn't go along to Japan.

Nov 06, 2019, 12:03

De Allende was a cul-de-sac basher. His game was exactly the same. Esterhuizen is our best 12. Now that Frans is gone, our only test quality 12. His distribution with a variety of passes is the best of all our backs, with offloading only rivalled by RG. His defence actually significantly bolsters the Boks, completely forcing the opposition to pass far earlier and much further away from the gainline. His counter-rucking is better than Damian's. His kicking is better. He reads play better, senses pressure better. Damian can't determine what is in front of him, panics and runs back into the teeth of the defence. He also has a tendency to crab out wide and cluster defenders together. No. Damian was not top 3. Our top Boks were Faf, Pollard, Eben, Beast, Thor. Notable mentions include Mapimpi, Am, Bongi, Malherbe. 

Nov 06, 2019, 12:11

 And the problem is Esterhuizen is much more so. Dead head - that is why Erasmus would not touch him with a bargepole.  Idiots know better - LMAO

I expected that you and Mozart would go gaga after the Springboks won the WC - but really it was not gaga - it was sure madness.   The twits that thotoughly deserve the egg mountain they are under.  

Totally idiotic pair. 

Nov 06, 2019, 12:19

Damian was Rassie's preferred option because he had no intention of playing the ball through the backs. As it was Damian very seldom circulated the ball. He was a basher. His defence did little to bolster the Boks, as we saw in the first six minutes of the final, and again in the second half when Frans had to down the runner Damian flubbed for a guaranteed try. Damian is a D- centre. Incapable of performing outside of heavily scripted sequences, though at an average level. You think differently? Show me.

Nov 06, 2019, 12:48

“ Posted by: clevermike (38716 posts) Nov 06, 2019, 12:11

And the problem is Esterhuizen is much more so. Dead head - that is why Erasmus would not touch him with a bargepole. Idiots know better - LMAO “

Yet, the same Rassie included Frans Steyn........

Nov 06, 2019, 13:17

Let me put it bluntly - if Willemse was available Steyn would never have been in the squad.   Even Erasmus said that  as Willemse was not fully matchfit due to injury he was NOT initially selected.  Who would have made way for him of his return from injury was earlier.  Only two candidates for dropping - Steyn or Jantjies.       

Nov 06, 2019, 13:23

Well, Frans certainly saved Damian's blushes as he, yet again, allowed a guaranteed try through his flimsy defence. No credit given to Frans for putting him down.

Nov 06, 2019, 13:52

What rubbish - one would swear rugby players make the correct calls all the time, never throw a bad pass or miss a tackle

You lot are smarting because de Allende has made your names mud just like PSDT has.

de Allende was brilliant all WC and easily the best 12 in the tournament hence making team of the WC

Do you like your eggs poached or scrambled

Nov 06, 2019, 13:57

Steyn did not make even the remotest effort to tackle Watson - he got bumbed out of the way, but in the process Watson lost his balance and fell down.  Since he was not held Watson could have gotten up and scored the try - but that did not happen because Du Toit prevented him from getting up and going forward.   In the effort to move further forward Watson knocked on the ball.

That is what happened.  I can still remember the baffled look on Fransie's face after the bumping incident.   If it was not for the quick action by Du Toit a try would have been scored.  I think the blush was on Fransie's face.  

Nov 06, 2019, 14:02


You just dont stop moz.

You're becoming worse that clevermike.

We won the RWC.

No player is the perfect player.

I bet any of the players you like, also either missed a tackle or two OR duffed a chance or two.

Cant you try .... Stop. Think. before you type crap like mike?

Nov 06, 2019, 14:17

Never before has a Bok team in the professional era won so many allocate in one season. 

18 months ago it was Alister Coetzee's shambles, to number 1 in the world and winners of the world cup.
The Springboks have become all other countries favourite second team, next to their own.

Those that did not support Rassie are wrong, simple as.

Nov 06, 2019, 16:24

All aspects of Rassie's gameplan that I have assessed have been assessed accurately. Rassie is the very thing Meyer was ridiculed for being, that's the hypocrisy. I simply will not believe something that isn't true. He is an average coach. He is tactically limited, and leans heavily on his defence coach, who forms the backbone of our entire game. That's not an opinion, that's a reality. without physical dominance, we can't do very much, as evidenced in our loss to New Zealand where we were held at arms length, looking impotent. We need someone who can expand on that physicality if we want sustained success. We are not going to bully bash our way through 2020. 

Nov 06, 2019, 16:39

Aug get this into your thick skull what makes you think your prejudicial and biased assessment are accurate huh?

Is it because you say so? Who the fuck do you think you are?

If your assessments tell us Rassie is an average coach, that de Allende, PSDT and Lood are crap then you are fucking delusional if you think anyone on here is going to take you seriously.

You and your assessments are a joke and you are too stupid or stuck up your own arse to realise it.

No one reads your assessments because it’s the same prejudicial bullshit - it’s NEVER objective for if it was you would have long acknowledged the good that the likes of de Allende and PSDT have done

Accurate assessments - FUCK OFF

You are a joke

Nov 06, 2019, 16:50

I must remember the company I keep, the self-professed coach who knows better than several Bok coaches. You yourself have called Rassie an idiot. If there is a pompous know-it all, it's you Saffy. Yes, tell me again how stupid I am. It loses its luster the more it's used. Is there anyone here who hasn't been labelled an idiot by you? 

Nov 06, 2019, 16:50

Something that I noticed about DDA during the WC.

When he gets quick ball and the opposition line is 10m-15m from him. He tends to change direction early instead of late.

It's the equivalent of playing the ball far out in front of your body. There are a limited number of situations where this is a benefit. 

He should be rushing towards the line an forcing the opposition to hold their position, deviating towards the gap in the last moment.

DDA does exactly the opposite and that's why he never gets a clean breaks.

It's immaturity of process. The gap is bigger when you are further away and it naturally decreases as you approach. Regardless, it's always easier to get through a small gap late than it is to get through a big gap early.

Delaying gratification is the way. 

Nov 06, 2019, 16:58

Yes, the unders line so typical of the quality 12s. He doesn't have that weapon, something I've lamented before. He likes to look for the outside shoulder as well. His natural tendency is to want space. If you watch the England game against New Zealand again, watch their midfield lines. 

Nov 06, 2019, 17:05

Don’t lie Aug I’ve not called Rassie an idiot - i initially had my reservations in season one as I did not know much about him as a coach and his results were average

That has all changed in season two culminating in a WC victory and with it confirmation that he is a great coach and man

Far far better than Meyer, White etc

As for you you are a fucking joke telling us your assessments are accurate when the conclusions are so off the mark.

If they were objective and gave a true picture that at times acknowledged the good DA and PSDT did then we would take you seriously.

It’s all prejudicial and predictable - it’s impossible to take you seriously.

True assessments are objective and devoid of prejudice - something you are incapable of and therefore never to be respected or taken seriously

Hence the joke

Nov 06, 2019, 17:06

Rassie has commented that attack is the area that he wants the Boks to improve going forward. He said that when building a team it is best to get the defence working well, then first phase and finally continue improving the attack.

The only team we have seen good attacking play is the Lions in SuperRugby, and the defence is this competition is minimal compared to test rugby.

The New Zealand NPC has excellent attacking rugby, but the defence is even looser than it is in SuperRugby. 

Rassie won the Curry Cup in his first season as a coach with the Cheetas (or perhaps it was the second)
Then Rassie built a very good attacking Stormers unit, but handed it over to Alister Coetzee who dismantled it- and it was up to Neighaber to keep them winning from pure defence.

Then Rassie went to Munster who done very well right away. Then Rassie went to the Boks, and in 18 months turned around the shipwreck of Coetzee. 

Meyer was a good coach as well, but not in the same league as Rassie. 
At present Meyer is in the fight of his life to retain his job, despite being given the biggest budget in history to buy a whole new squad. If Rassie was at Stade Francias his team would be winning it, or climbing up the ladder rapidly, and not the bottom half like Meyer.

Rassie has arguably done a better job in the whole history of the Boks in the professional era, to not think he is a good coach is crazy.
I thought Rassie was a good coach from the very outset, but he is actually better than I thought. 
I have since revised my opinion that he is certainly a top 5 coach in the world.

Nov 06, 2019, 17:11

De Allende lands a contract with Munster - what a club of fools. they are.  They appointed Erasmus as Director of Rugby.  In Paris their Head Coach passed away because of a heart attack.   The Idiotic Munster ask Erasmus to handle both roles and after the 2017 Erasmus - the idiot coach according to AO - is awarded as the top coach in the Top 12 competition for the 2017-18 series. 

Obviously the whole of Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Italy are all rugby fools.  How can they agree to such an atrocious award according to AO.   

Now the bloody idiots signed a contract with according to AO the worst inside center.   AO is such a wise (????) guy - how the hell do they expect to make progress with De Allende around?     

Nov 06, 2019, 17:12

The Stormers haven't been a good attacking side for around fifteen years. So, Rassie has no record of attacking rugby at any level of the game. what we do have is a body of work of the two at test level separate from one another, and the attack stats under Coetzee significantly dwarf that under Rassie. Coetzee's problem was turnover ball and breakdown defence. His approach left our weaker defenders more vulnerable. Vulnerabilities which still exist, but are better disguised. 

Nov 06, 2019, 17:21

Is that your accurate assessment bwahaaahaaa

Nov 06, 2019, 17:22

Idiot speaker

Rassie coached the Cheetahs for two years - 2004-2005.   The Cheetahs has always been a team spcializing in ball-in-hand-rugby and won the CC in 2004 and share the cup with the Bulls the enxt year,   Moved to WP/Stormers and while he was coach did very well in both cases ie from 2008 to 2010.   Was in the Super Rugby final in 2010 I believe.  He then left the coaching role and in 2012 became SARU Director.

'The Stormers haven't been a good attacking side for around fifteen years".   In the 15 years Erasmus was coaching the WP/Stiormers for less than 3 full years,   

Happy Idiots Day to you.

Nov 06, 2019, 17:25

During the years 2007 up until 2011 the Stormers scored half of what the leading teams produced. Their linebreak stats have persistently been cellar level from that time up until now. At their peak, their defence was their means of attack. You are too easy Saffy. A little homework makes all the difference. 

As for the test production on attack from either coach, I have posted that information numerous times. I know you've seen it as you commented in those threads. 

Nov 06, 2019, 17:28

We believe every lie this bugger came up with,!!!!!!!! 

Nov 06, 2019, 17:28

"In the 15 years Erasmus was coaching the WP/Stiormers for less than 3 full years,"

I'm aware of that Lügnerin. However, the playstyle would heavily suggest that he had a very large influence on the Coetzee years. Coetzee, away from Rassie, doesn't coach a team to play like that. The Stormers blueprint is the Bok model under Rasse. Same limitations and problems. We are basically the 2010 Stormers side.

Nov 06, 2019, 17:30

Fuck me - this is beyond anything real.   I know you are a simpleton - but you are even too stupid for that.

Nov 06, 2019, 17:36

A lie? What do you dispute? Shall I repost the numbers? Really, must you bring it on yourself yet again? :D

Nov 06, 2019, 17:38

The 15 years story is what is the starting lie. Start thinking from there. 

Nov 06, 2019, 17:42

So now that everybody has had their  little hissy fit, feels good and patriotic, has identified the aberrant soul and dutifully condemned him.......has anybody got any counter arguments? Or can we accept that in only 6 minutes Allende blew 3 try scoring chances?

Guys nothing you say bothers me, you should know that by now.....but this kind of herd instinct, inability to process facts you don't like, intolerance for ideas you don't share is exactly what destroyed the country. The truth should never be an unwelcome guest.

Nov 06, 2019, 17:43

Mike, you really need to calm yourself. Your English breaks up when you have a tantrum. You've lost yourself. Poor comprehension.

Nov 06, 2019, 17:43

The 2010 Stormers side was the best Stormers side ever...if not for Soweto...and the ref:D.

Nov 06, 2019, 19:00

The Stormers were a very good attacking side. The moment Rassie left, all that remained was Neighabers defence. Coetzee is a crap coach that got a free ride. He believed all the BS, and even when he was fired as Bok coach he had the ordasity to claim he was a better coach than Rassie. How did that all turn out? 

Coetzee should be selling artifical dog shit at a flea market in Japan, but SARU was even able to secure him a coaching job in Japan to get him out of the public eye.

Nov 06, 2019, 19:02

With regards to Delande, I need to watch the game again- and check these possible moves he butchered.

He is not the ideal inside center, but he at least played to his potential at the world cup. In the modern era, an inside centre has to be big, which sometimes means sacrificing some skill.

I can't remember the last inside centre in SA that was actually a very good playmaker, and also big enough to defend the channel. 

Nov 06, 2019, 19:22

JdV was streets ahead of Allende.....defensively, reading the game, scoring tries, passing, beating tackles. 

Nov 06, 2019, 19:40

Coetzee was not a good head coach, but he proved he is better at orchestrating an attacking team with the Boks. You can't deny this, his Boks were a much productive attacking side. Give him Nienaber and things become interesting. The Stormers, in all the years Rassie has been involved with the Stormers have been a poor attacking side. All defence and set pieces. Rassie was touted as an ideas man, he hasn't lived up to that reputation. I find it ridiculous that everyone is straining so hard to rebrand him as something he isn't. Drop the fanboyism and we don't have any of these disagreements.

Nov 06, 2019, 19:42

@Moz: I didn't regard Jean as a natural 12, but he was a very intelligent player. A very good reader of the game. I'd go so far as to say one of the most tactically aware Boks of all time. Physical and made a difference. Damian isn't even 2% of what Jean was. If only we got more out of our golden generation. 

Nov 06, 2019, 20:12

Moz I don’t have a counter as I never read your take and you know why

I see the ignorant Aug is now saying Jean was not a natural 12 - what a fool

His accurate assessment probably had Jean as a natural openside!!!

Nov 06, 2019, 20:31

Here is the move Moz is talking about.

Frame 1: Willie gets, looks to exploit the gap between Farrell and Ford

Frame 2 (above): Illustrates what ideally should happen next. Willie splits the defenders, turns Farrell inside, Damian runs support on his outside, draws the wing inside, passes to Kolbe, Bob's your uncle.

Frame 3 (below): Instead, Damian for some reason turns inside and starts jogging behind Willie. The dotted line indicates what the more productive decision would have been.

Frame 4 (above): Kolbe now has to come inside off his wing to take the offload with Damian in no man's land.

Nov 06, 2019, 21:08

Nice analysis Pakie....thanks for that. Why we can't operate at this enlightened level and have to grovel in emotional claptrap beats me. 

Nov 06, 2019, 21:08

Nov 06, 2019, 21:28

Actually de Allende looks like he is looking at running an inside line and had Willie switched to him he was through given Kolbe is being covered on the outside

So maybe de Allende was ahead of Willie in his thinking but Willie failed to pick his line

Nov 06, 2019, 21:52

Er duh.....look at Willie when he is in the act of passing....Allende is 3 steps behind him, because he ran into Farrell's back. There never was  an inside pass available once Willie took the gap and even if there was, Willie was running with his back to the inside.

Nope he just had to hold station with Willie and take the pass. 

Nov 06, 2019, 21:59

Always an excuse. Just like the Lood miss on the Wallaby 8. Embarrassing. My only surprise is that he didn't squeeze "yawn" and "class act" in there. 

Nov 06, 2019, 22:01

Disagree Ford is drifting across chasing Willie opening a hole for de Allende to shoot through. A reverse pass by Willie would have set DA free.

If DA had taken the outside line Farrel has him covered with May covering Kolbe

I can see exactly why DA is running the line he is. It’s a perfect sum up of the situation

Nov 06, 2019, 22:02

Aug no excuse just an accurate assessment

Let me guess dumbass - Mostert never missed two tackles that lead to tries?

Nov 06, 2019, 22:20

Ok, DDA botched 3 tries...so actually the Boks should have won 53-12...impressive!!! So we are even better than I thought!...pity Jean works for Supersport, him being so much better than Damien...darn!!!!

Nov 06, 2019, 23:25

Not a bad thought Dave, but I'm not sure either Ford or Farrell is out of commission if the inside pass goes. DA is quite a way behind them and neither is committed to Willie yet, Ford can change his line of running and at the moment this shot is taken Farrell starts veering inside as well, still ahead of DA who lost a lot of momentum when stepping inside.

Cole is coming across, a little deeper Vunipola is across in cover. The big chance was on the outside when Farrell was made to turn. While the inside pass looks tantalizing for a moment, I don't see it amounting to much more than getting us to the 22 right in the teeth of the England cover. England had no one covering wide behind May, Vunipola wouldn't have gotten across to Kolbe.

Nice to have an actual discussion though. The question is would DA have gotten clear enough outside of Farrell to accept the offload and give May just enough to think about to give Kolbe a sniff? Maybe, because Farrell is not known for tackling low, so get a bit of a fend on him, May starts to worry, sneak the offload ... worth a shot, especially as I don't think the inside pass was ever on in Willie's mind.

Nov 07, 2019, 00:02

I reckon they would be out of commission as you put it as their focus is on Willie.

DA taking the inside line would have forced them to completely change direction by which time DA would have been on his way to the try line.

Given the cover is Cole and Vin I’d say DA was possibly safe

But the point here is not as Moz proclaims - ie that DA is a dead head - he is anything but. There are two options here going outside or taking the inside line. You think outside I think inside

No doubt the other two incidents are no different.

It’s just the usual prejudicial shit against DA who had a great WC and that’s a fact

Nov 07, 2019, 00:21

Willie had in effect beaten Ford and Farrell was turning inside to tackle him.. We knowWillie would have got the pass away because he got a pass away to the much more remote Kolbe. But Allende wasn't there because he had turned inside behind Farrell, where he was blocked......and slowed down.

 Even if the ball was passed to him, which would have been a dangerous no look backwards offload, he couldn't have got past Farrell. We know that because even without Farrell tackling him, he never found the space to get past Farrell and slowed down.

 So no Dave, there was no mileage in that inside cut and a try beckoning if he just supported Willie's run.


Nov 07, 2019, 00:41

Disagree Moz - Willie having beaten Ford, would have drawn Ford after him, opening up the space for DA running an inside line even more.

The reverse pass would have been harder than the pass to Kolbe or DA running the outside line but reverse passes are common practice these days.

The outside line was being covered by Ford and Farrell all heading in the same direction as Willie.

The inside line by DA would have left Ford and Farrell for dead with DA only having to beat the cross cover of Cole a prop

So Moz I’m sorry but DA is no dead head - he went for one of two options and who knows which one would have bore fruit. I prefer the inside line option as the outside one looks covered

Nov 07, 2019, 00:42

Damian flows away from the attacking movement. The space is outside Willie, not inside. If Damian gets an inside pass he inevitably takes contact. If he goes outside, it's a 2v1 giving Kolbe a great opportunity to attack. The Boks blow many opportunities to attack space, mismatches. Esterhuizen plays, and he goes outside and gets Kolbe away. The difference between a real centre and a pretender. 

Nov 07, 2019, 00:45

The only trouble with that logic is he did turn inside and the move broke down....firstly because Willie knew nothing about it.....secondly because Farrell had already turned inside  and he got blocked.

And then .....he trotted behind the move! Disgraceful!

Nov 07, 2019, 00:48

Rubbish he does flow away from the attacking movement - he is well in it if Willie throws the reverse pass

Nov 07, 2019, 00:51

A reverse, backwards, no look pass......oh sure, that's what you do in a WC final.

Nov 07, 2019, 01:02

The move did not breakdown because he took the inside line it did so because Willie did not see DA taking the better line inside

Farrell turns inside to chase Willie with his focus on Willie. That would not block DA as his line is within Farrell’s.

He would trot if the inside option has been missed by Willie - the horse has bolted

Nothing disgraceful about anything DA has done

Nov 07, 2019, 01:03

Yes you do - it’s how modern rugby is played regardless of final.

Players practice it all day

Nov 07, 2019, 01:21

Moz I’ve just watched that passage of play shown above.

You have to be kidding right?

Firstly Willie is the one crabbing across with DA following him on the outside, Willie then throws half a dummy pass and shoots for the gap between Ford and Farrell which is when DA starts the inside line.

Kolbe cuts in Willie throws a crap pass

DA is not trotting he is a second behind Willie

Your hate for DA is in poor taste Moz

Your take is absolute bull shit

Not sure where the other 2 scoring opportunities are missed within 6 min thanks to DA

What crap

Nov 07, 2019, 02:11

Okay this is going nowhere....

.....I think Farrell was forced to cover Willie and if Allende simply stayed on his path he would have been where Kolbe tried unsuccessfully to be, yielding an overlap and a good try scoring chance

......you for obvious reasons have to come up with a different theory, running back inside to get a no look offload from a player angled towards the touchline was the way to go....running away from open space towards the cover defence,

Regardless.....biting on Willie's slight dummy, the onlyplayer to do so....and then running into the back of your opponent took away any chance strategy 2 would work. We didn't score following Duds inside cut.

So it's either dumb decision making which I honestly believe or horrible execution.....your choice.

Nov 07, 2019, 04:13


Just one thought though - if it was not for the try scored by De Allende in the semi - the Springboks likely would not have been in the final.   I know you did not even mention the try after the semi  and then downplayed it as not really deserving praise for achievement.   

Normal style of yours - why should one accept your other stories about what De Allende did wrong in the final?    Really worthless stuff coming from prejudice.         

Nov 07, 2019, 13:29

It’s neither dumb or poor execution on the part of DA

He runs into no one, no blocking.

Had he continued the inside line and Willie had found him he would have been in more space than the outside line and he would have only had a prop to beat

On the outside Ford, Farrell and May had us covered

The real point here is you are speaking shit about DA

Nov 07, 2019, 14:20

It's not open space to the tryline past Cole, Dave. Vunipola by that time would have been right in DA's running line coming across in cover, Daly was also hovering in the 22 near Vunipola. You can briefly see his boot at the edge of the screen minute 3:47. The inside line would have DA right into the cover defense around the 22. I also think, looking at the fact the Farrell stays ahead of DA throughout, he would been able to hassle DA on an inside pass as well.

But in the end it's all hypothetical, we can't accurately predict how things would have gone had different decisions been made. Interesting for discussion, though.

Nov 07, 2019, 14:56


What else do you expect?  They have been talking Shit from the time Erasmus have been appointed.

Nov 07, 2019, 15:03


You know that old saying - If my auntie had balls, she would have been my uncle.  That showed the real value of IF and this whole thread is totally based on "IFF" and  being wise after the game after sitting studying the game and then try and find a means to belittle De Allende.  

At a later move De Allende ran past Vulipola - so you think it is impossible.   I am sorry - but this is another skyscraper of  Mozart and you fall for the shit???????    

Nov 07, 2019, 15:03


Nov 07, 2019, 15:10

Any discussion about what could have happened is based on "if".

Nov 07, 2019, 15:19

So it is really worthless theorizing and just a way of discrediting  a player the three of you for some reason hate.

Nov 07, 2019, 15:19

So it is really worthless theorizing and just a way of discrediting  a player the three of you for some reason hate.

Nov 07, 2019, 15:29

He visibly straightens up and slows down......then he trots behind the move. Why does he do that:

1 Two reasons.....he buys Willie's dummy, the only player to do that, which also demonstrates he knows Willie has no plan to pass to him on the inside.

2 He is in the same line as Farrell and has no path through.

This is just another hoax....he failed to run a supporting line. Check out Goodhue's line off the Barrett break in the RC, a very similar situation with Barret playing the role of Willie, Allende playing the role of Farrell and Goodhue playing the role of Allende.

Goodhue never tried to come inside, even though it would have been more justified. He cracked on the pace and was clear to take the obvious pass when it came. That's what Allende should have done...but perhaps he just didn't have enough confidence in his speed.

Nov 07, 2019, 15:29

Pakie have you looked at the crash ball run into Itoje?

Nov 07, 2019, 15:36


Who scored the try that was needed to get the Springboks into the final and why did you discredit De Allende in scoring a very difficult try?   

Nov 07, 2019, 15:41

Haven't had opportunity to run through the complete game again yet Moz, it's been a busy week. Just checked out a few of the things mentioned here.

Nov 07, 2019, 15:44

No worries.

Nov 07, 2019, 16:07

Exactly Pakie it’s all hypothetical the cover could have got DA if he had taken the inside line and Ford, Farrell and May look to have the outside covered.

The point here is that DA is not a dead head as Moz proclaims, he was faced with 2 options and took the one I would have taken.

As for DA setting up another phase as is the norm - he has Malherbe on his outside so takes contact which is spot on - sets up another phase which creates more space outside which unfortunately Willie botched.

Nothing dead head about that - more prejudicial garbage

Nov 07, 2019, 16:16


Why not credit De Allende for scoring the try essential for the Springboks to get through to the final?  I think that the reason for you are the most prejudiced  person whose contribution under this thread is total malignancy on your part,   This is what reasonable  people like Razoe cannot understand about what is happening on site,     

Nov 07, 2019, 16:20

DA was the best 12 at the WC and that’s all we need to know

You don’t achieve that being a dead head

He has been great for us - as Will Greenwood pointed out - he was vital to our cause.

Stop DA and you stop the Boks. DA rode the Ford channel to the point he was shown the exit sign.

DA was huge

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