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All Blacks: Cheats or masters of gamesmanship?

Forum » Rugby » All Blacks: Cheats or masters of gamesmanship?

Jul 05, 2019, 09:20

"Street-smart".

That's how former Springbok coach Nick Mallett described an incident involving All Blacks and Crusaders lock Sam Whitelock in last Saturday's Super Rugby semi-final in Christchurch.

The incident in question occurred when the Crusaders skipper knocked the ball out of Hurricanes scrumhalf TJ Perenara's hands at a ruck.

The 'Canes, trailing 30-26 at the time, were hot on attack for the winning score when Australian referee Nic Berry deemed that Perenara had knocked the ball on.

Game over!

Berry did not spot Whitelock's indiscretion and upon viewing further replays it was clear that a penalty and yellow card should have been the order of the day.

Whether you like the tactics or not, you can't argue that it was clever.

Whitelock knew the referee in all likelihood would not spot it. As per the regulations, the television match official could also not step in as it wasn't foul play.

Sneaky! And I wouldn't be surprised if Whitelock got a pat on the back from coach Scott Robertson and his team-mates after the match.


This begs the question: Should this kind of subtle cheating be considered part and parcel of the game?

After all, the Kiwis have been doing it for years.


Rugby historians will never forget Andy Haden's infamous lineout dive against Wales at Cardiff Arms Park in 1978. It was done to con referee Roger Quittenton into awarding New Zealand a penalty, and while the English official said he actually penalised Wales' Geoff Wheel for a push on Frank Oliver, Haden later admitted it was pre-planned for him to dive.

The All Blacks kicked the penalty to sneak a 13-12 win.


There was also an incident in the famous 1995 World Cup final between South Africa and New Zealand at Ellis Park where All Blacks captain Sean Fitzpatrick fell backwards with his hands covering his face, pretending he was punched.

It was in extra time and the Boks had just been awarded a kickable penalty, before Fitzpatrick tried his luck in swaying English referee Ed Morrison into reversing the penalty. Luckily for the Boks, Morrison did not fall for Fitzpatrick's tricks.

Last year, popular New Zealand scribe Mark Reason got Kiwis hot under the collar when he wrote in a column for the Stuff.co.nz website:

"That's what the All Blacks do. They vicariously bully and cheat in the name of patriotism. But they are now in jeopardy. As we found out in the Lions series - and it cost the All Blacks the series - what they get away with in Super Rugby doesn't fly with many northern hemisphere refs."

Former Springbok centre and assistant coach Brendan Venter also wrote a few years ago that the All Backs "cheated subtly" and Whitelock's actions last Saturday will certainly stir that debate once more.

The Stuff website described the Whitelock incident as "an act of gamesmanship". However, I'm not sure that description is entirely accurate.

The Cambridge Dictionary describes gamesmanship as "the activity of trying to win a game by doing things that are not really breaking the rules but are intended to destroy the confidence of the other player".

Whitelock clearly broke the rules, he was just not caught.

Street-smart!

Not only are the All Blacks the world best rugby team, but they are also past masters at gaining an edge over opponents by using various ploys and tactics.

And, in this all-important Rugby World Cup year, it may help if their opponents (yes, the Springboks should take heed) are extra vigilant.



Jul 05, 2019, 09:38

Fark it must be nice supporting a team that never infringes. What a load of propaganda bullshit.

Who are you trying to fool, think the refs will see this and swallow this crap? LMFAO

And subtle is something the boks never do they just do it out in the open and rely of paying the refs off.

Sure sign the boks are shit scared of the ABs still so they have started making up shit in hope everyone will join in to try and influence the refs during the RWC. 

But thanks for the laugh anyway

Jul 05, 2019, 09:45

"The incident in question occurred when the Crusaders skipper knocked the ball out of Hurricanes scrumhalf TJ Perenara's hands at a ruck.

The 'Canes, trailing 30-26 at the time, were hot on attack for the winning score when Australian referee Nic Berry deemed that Perenara had knocked the ball on."

Game over!


Jul 05, 2019, 10:09

So go and find me one game where there is nothing missed by the ref or there is not one penalty awarded. Don't see how this game is any different to any other game.

And I bet you didn't get all twisted when the Crusaders were done out of the trophy in 2014 ( by a SA ref) when he awarded a penalty out in front with time up which he even admitted afterwards was never a penalty.

Funny how this is always an issue when its not your team involved. The silence is always deafening from you lot every time your teams involved.

Tall poppy syndrome is alive and well in SA rugby :)

Jul 05, 2019, 10:42

You guys need to clean up your act. The mud is sticking thick and hard.

Jul 05, 2019, 10:43

Pot kettle black

Jul 05, 2019, 11:20

I did not see the incident, so I don't have an opinion on this particular incident...but speaking in general, the following:

  1. Rugby is an professional sport and huge amounts of money is involved.
  2. It is difficult to prove intent, but IMO, deliberate infringements like professional fouls should be dealt with in the same vein as deliberate dirty play.
  3.  Cheating is cheating and deliberately doing so to win at all cost should be strongly discouraged by World Rugby. 
  4. All teams and players are guilty at times, but there is no place for it in pro sports. The sooner they start clamping down on it, the better.
  5. To me, deliberately infringing is the same thing as using steroids. Rules and laws are there for a reason.
  6. If things happened as it were reported, the Canes probably lost out on a place in the finals, the Jags missed out on hosting the final...and their significant home advantage that comes with it. 
  7. If one look at the magnitude of the f inancial implication of such action, it's almost criminal.
  8. World Rugby should clean up it's act. They are behaving like amateurs...and poor ones at that. We deserve better.
  9. Rugby cost me R 11K a year to watch on TV...no wonder people are losing interest. 
  10. I think I'll cancel my DSTV after the RWC...or even sooner...

Jul 05, 2019, 11:51

The Canes "probably lost out on a place in the finals"??

Really, so if the Canes had retained the ball, the Saders would have just let them score?? Don't make me laugh Draad....

Deliberately infringing is the same as using steroids?? So a guy standing a metre off side should be banned for a year or two??

Can't believe the crap I read on here at times!

Enter Hasbeeno, the Foulou sicko phant......

Jul 05, 2019, 12:00

I have heard this term street smart before. I don't agree with any instance it has been applied. Here are some things that were excused for being street smart: 

Kick Chase: Forming units of two to three players sealing off the receiver of a kick, thereby obstructing and often bumping defenders off course. This has occurred countless times. Where does the "smart" bit happen? What made it more technical in its application that it was unpunishable, whereas other sides were penalized? There was no real effort to disguise this from the ref. 

Holding: The All Blacks went through a period where they would execute plays where the decoy runner would hold one or two defenders by the jersey so the attacker could break around them. They scored a few tries this way against the Boks in 2010. Game changing tries. This would never be allowed by any other team. Therefore I do not accept the use of the term "street smart". It was simply ignored. Another instance of holding was the Bakkies Both headbutt incident on Kowan. Why did the ref not call back play when he clearly saw Kowan holding Botha by the shorts with both hands, thereby impeding his ability to win a loose ball which left New Zealand vulnerable? 

Dangerous Tackles: There are numerous instances of New Zealand getting away with dangerous tackles, but the spear tackles are the worst. There was the tackle which ended BOD's Lions Tour in 2005, there was the Rocokoco spear on Paulse in the home 2007 TNs test, there was the spear on Smit which ended his 2008 TNs campaign - that after a throat slam on Jantjes seconds earlier; New Zealand shockingly came away with the penalty. The ref was standing close by for the Smit tackle. Who could forget the two swinging arms in the WC final against France before New Zealand were awarded a game clinching penalty? These things make people talk. It isn't street smart, it's plain bias. To think, Bismarck was yellow carded at a crucial moment of a game against New Zealand for a perfectly timed and legal tackle on Carter.

Breakdown: This was very common throughout the McCaw era. All the more impressive that Brussow wiped the floor McCaw in every encounter. Is it smart to sit on your backside wrestling the scrumhalf for the ball on the wrong side of the ruck? If a Bok did that, we'd all be exclaiming the stupidity of South Africans. I can't imagine anyone defending it, much less declaring it street smart rugby. We saw this game after game after game. Coming in from the side, diving into rucks, sealing off the ruck. Little technical ability, just plain bias. 

I could cite many more issues, but these suffice. What does it all mean? Do the All Blacks cheat? Or do they take advantage of the fact that they can push the envelope much further than anyone else? What cannot be argued is that when you have a player receiving seven final warnings, laughing in the face of the referee each time, something is very wrong. When you have a referee in a World Cup final, averting his gaze to avoid seeing illegal play. Something is very wrong. This is a poor advert for the game of rugby. 

No doubt we'll have the usual gutless faces on their hind legs. I don't hate New Zealand rugby, but I do demand that everyone be held to the same standard. They would have still been the best team in the world without all of this, but it has changed the rugby landscape significantly. In some cases, altered the courses of entire careers. 

Jul 05, 2019, 12:12

There is a very big difference between infringing on the field and being coached to "infringe"

The one is an individuals action ... the other is all part of the team's game plan.

Call it what you may ... it's cheating ... and the Kiwis have mastered it over the years.

This kind of unsportsmanlike conduct comes from the top ranks of Kiwi rugby.

It's how they win matches.

Perenara and his team were on the receiving end this time ... and it infuriated them

The scary thing is that the Kiwis are all so proud of this type of behaviour.

Whitelock probably got a bonus for his actions and a huge pat on the back.

Wifely dearest probably phoned all her mates to ask them whether they saw her hubby's brilliant chea ... I mean ... infringement ... how it robbed the Canes ... and secured a spot in the final for the Saders.

Saderfan will undoubtedly defend his team and the cheating Whitelcock .. claiming innocence ... but he knows well enough that their entire rugby structures are based on cheating and how to get away with it ... 

The Kiwis play by a totally different set of rules to the rest of us.

If they were forced to play on a level playing field they'd be exposed as pussies.



 

Jul 05, 2019, 12:36

Only pussies are the whinging Saffas on here, you lot are worse than the Poms.

Surprised you lot haven't grabbed the ball and run of home to mum for a cuddle and a hot chocolate.

Pot kettle black kiddies.



Jul 05, 2019, 12:39

Did you get triggered CF? If you act now, you can get a discount on Safespaces at Safespace.co.nz


Jul 05, 2019, 13:07

Well, well, well. Seems there is widespread agreement about Whitelock's cheating.

Poor Crusadertwit and dear mooo mooo are left deeply embarrassed yet again. 

Actually the worst cheat ever was that old nz ref scoundrel Brycy Lawrence! His father was as bad with his "Get the Japies" letter to Oz refs. 

The down under criminality is of course hereditary! :D

Moo mooo  perv I trust you read my post on Beeno's Trumpet regarding the British Folau winning a huge court case. Looks like you pervs are going down along with the nz lady goth freak. 

Other than that I trust our nz friends will enjoy the final. :angel:

Goooo Jags. 


Jul 05, 2019, 13:34

There are laws and rules. Either apply them equally or disregard them altogether.  When we apply them subjectively like we please, it loses it's value.

"Really, so if the Canes had retained the ball, the Saders would have just let them score?? Don't make me laugh Draad...."

You do know the meaning of "probably "?

Yes, I know it's guessing, but so what? If it wasn't for the cynical play, we would have known for sure. 

If the reporting was right, Sam deliberately infringed.  Why would he do that if he had confidence they could keep the Canes out? He did it in desperation to win.

Are you saying that some cheating is more acceptable than others?

A steroids doper gets banned 2 years, but somehow it's worse to dope (and get a potential physical advantage) than to deliberately cheat and get an even more direct advantage?

Rugby has stopped being a gentleman's game long ago...and when people are starting to justify cheating, we have totally lost the plot.


Jul 05, 2019, 13:42

PS, if the Saders was the better team, why cheat to win? Gamesmanship is apparently the new term for getting away with cheating. 

It's like the old saying: " It's only illegal if you get caught "

Superlative comparison, but where do we draw the line?


PS, Moolaa. Like I have said before, I did not see the incident and I don't blame NZ only. I said all teams/players try their luck. For me this isn't about NZ or the Saders, this is about a pro sport and a line that should be drawn somewhere, regardless of who is playing.

Jul 05, 2019, 13:48

Draad the video is in the editorial column next door.

https://www.sport24.co.za/Columnists/HermanMostert/all-blacks-cheats-or-masters-of-gamesmanship-20190705 


Jul 05, 2019, 14:00

Draad could you please stop embarrassing our kiwi friends with these very awkward questions of yours!

Thanks. :angel:

Jul 05, 2019, 14:02

Denny, thanks, but viewing the vid will compromise my objectivity!:angel:

Jul 05, 2019, 14:02


Jul 05, 2019, 14:07

I didn't notice Bryce Lawrence's objectivity in that notorious quarterfinal in Wellington...

Jul 05, 2019, 14:27

What are you tzlking about Denny, rugby is an esteemed professional sport?!:D

Jul 05, 2019, 14:33

Yeah sure, it's all there on paper, (just the ANC manifesto) until you're a SAFFA playing on foreign soil. F*&K I could've killed Lawrence that day, sat and watched the whole thing unfold and said to wifey halfway through the game...."This isn't going to end well"

Jul 05, 2019, 14:42

Sh!t happens.

Jul 05, 2019, 14:45

It was more painful breaking that game down than watching it live. Much worse. That entire WC has an asterisk hanging over it. 

Jul 05, 2019, 17:37

Clearly Sam was trying to hand the ball to TJ so I don't see the problem:angel:

Jul 05, 2019, 17:38

The cheating of the All Blacks is well documented. 

They are the best rugby team in the world, however, they do win some games they should have lost. 
The cynical fouls in the 22 to prevent tries is practised very well....

Apparently, professional director/actors from Hollywood are brought into New Zealand back office staff to help with the innocent look while cheating.

Mccaw continues to do contract work for the All Blacks to help pass the cheating batton to the next generation. 




Jul 05, 2019, 17:57

Good to see our beloved McCaw is not forgotten. What a rugby player, his past performances still put the over sized steroid aided locks of the world to shame, especially those that don't play when they break a nail.

Jul 05, 2019, 19:58

There has always been flaws as it is in any human endeavour but jealousy and sour grapes should never be in sport...sport is human and humans are very imperfect...sport takes the rough with the smooth and besides it's not the end of the world if you don't always win...the king has to fall and somebody takes his place...be valiant in defeat and accept it...excuses are weak...just raise your standards and challenge...that's true sportsmanship.

Jags could well win...I think I was the only one here that predicted a Jags/Sader final. Lets see tomorrow.

Jul 05, 2019, 20:03

Seb, I think the Jags have a good shot at winning this and even Hansen is sounding the alarm. It will be a game well worth watching.

Jul 05, 2019, 20:43

Who is the ref?

Jul 05, 2019, 20:57

Peyper ,he's also the only SA ref at the World Cup.Fittest ref in world rugby,they actually tested them.Being short also helps, peers so easily into those rucks........Laughed when he gave that yellow to Highlandres No.5 for swearing at him....He was like 2m away.....what an idiot.

Jul 05, 2019, 21:05

I'm no fan of Peyper...too full of himself for my liking...obnoxious little...

Jul 06, 2019, 00:43

Comments here from South Africans are a bit off the mark.

Even mention of the 1995 world cup confirms that you have your heads so far up your own arses that you you can smell your own dirty breath.

We all know what happened in South Africa in 1995.

Jul 06, 2019, 02:25

Yep we do know .....Joost van der Westhuizen and Japie Mulder tackled your only weapon Lomu into oblivion. And ultimately Stransky put the ABs away with a well organized drop which had the unfortunate consequence of having to listen to him ever since.

Jul 06, 2019, 02:43

No they actually call it cheating by South Africans concerning the poisoning of the Kiwis  We all know it happened.

Dirty pack of arseholes - Calling New Zealanders cheats is just South Africans who just a straight pack of ARSEHOLES - STINKING SHITHEADS. 

And no I am not a Kiwi.


Jul 06, 2019, 03:15

Your most important/deployed organ is clearly not between your ears. Like your pic, but for max transactional impact you should really be facing the camera.

Jul 06, 2019, 03:31

No, you are not a Kiwi. You are Herr Drache. When you have an itch for a pink thong, Damme Drache.


Jul 06, 2019, 04:06

Hahaha.... Conspiracy Linda enthusiastically buys into the funniest excuse in the history of poor loserdom. I wonder how we managed to get the muti up to England for the 99 WC where we whipped some of the same buggers again.

Jul 06, 2019, 07:05

Oh come now, Auggie ... my wife is the one with the perky ta-tas.

I'm just a middle aged man who has sole rights to those perky ta-tas.

Show a little respect will ya?



Jul 06, 2019, 07:28

I think South Africans take the prize for being poor  losers.

You have never liked the FACT THAT NZ RUGBY IS BETTER THAN SOUTH AFRICAN RUGBY. 

Jul 06, 2019, 07:30

And with an idiot like beeno in your country - Little wonder more and more females are lesbians.

What a poor excuse for a male he is............................................................    

Jul 06, 2019, 11:51

Dear oh dear, a lot of jaundiced Japies on here tonight! What? No RWC titles lately? Super Rugby titles perhaps?? What, nothing at all?????? WTF is going on with your rugby pray tell?? All these questions.....

Jul 06, 2019, 11:56

Mooo mooo you have been around here long enough to know what's wrong with our rugby. It's been covered extensively. 

You simply can't be that dumb you still don't know!

These kbbs continue to astonish! 

Jul 06, 2019, 12:16

Yep, your rugby just isn’t up to the standard set by the Mighty ABs Hasbeeno! You Japies lived in Fantasy Land until neutral refs came along. Guess what happened then? You started to lose more than you won!! And you call us cheats???? Bwahaha..etc, etc....

Jul 06, 2019, 13:06

Neutral refs Bwhahahaha moo moo you are a treat!!!

The verdict on nz dishonesty outside nz is unanimous. 

But at leat you win so no complaining moo moo. 

From our side we have never only blames bent down under refs bad as they often are.

If you had anything much between your ears you would know there are many things that have gone wrong. Thereby decimating the once greatest rugby playing nation who had a comfortable win loss ratio against the wee abs before readmission. 

Beeno schooling da moo moo. :D


Jul 06, 2019, 13:06

Neutral refs Bwhahahaha moo moo you are a treat!!!

The verdict on nz dishonesty outside nz is unanimous. 

But at leat you win so no complaining moo moo. 

From our side we have never only blames bent down under refs bad as they often are.

If you had anything much between your ears you would know there are many things that have gone wrong. Thereby decimating the once greatest rugby playing nation who had a comfortable win loss ratio against the wee abs before readmission. 

Beeno schooling da moo moo. :D


Jul 06, 2019, 13:13

Hasbeeno, you can start schooling me when the Boks get ahead of the ABs in the win column! Do you really want me to quote the stats? Do you??

Jul 06, 2019, 13:17

Quote the stats before isolation when the Boks were the Boks moo moo. 

Ya know AOC wants to see the end of you and you know the reason!

Lot of hot air from moo moo! 

Jul 06, 2019, 13:39

So shall I quote the stats Hasbeeno? Answer the question...

Jul 06, 2019, 14:11

Yes let's have the pre isolation stats moo moo. 


Jul 06, 2019, 15:43

Denny, "As we found out in the Lions series" :D:D - Come now Denny, what we found out in the Lions Series is the French Refs make it up as they go along - The Big Screen definitely shows a Lions player deliberately catching the ball in an offside position and putting his hands up to own up - The TMO concurs but what does the French ref do? Yes, after he discussed with another Frenchman on the Sideline he incredulously awards a scrum - A scrum????:O for playing the ball in an offside position - We know who the cheats are and it is not us.

:O

Jul 06, 2019, 19:30

Wow, imagine "Kierang" didn't cheat and the Canes scored last week??? impossible right? I guess we'll never know.

Jul 07, 2019, 02:27

Well guess what the Crusaders won - Not matter what spin you try to put on it.

Jul 07, 2019, 02:30

Even concerning cheating - NZ are far better at it than SA.

SA is a poor second in every part of life. 

Jul 07, 2019, 04:43

Let’s be fair about this Hasbeeno! The only FAIR way is to compare the record over the entire history. Played 97 Boks have won 36 ABs have won 58 That’s a 22 win margin Hasbeeno, 22 can you believe it??? The astounding fact is that more games (50) have been played in SA compared to only 44 in NZ and you are still streets behind!! I’m afraid you can’t just cherrypick a certain period mate like pre-isolation. Next you’ll be relying on the stats from the 1949 tour or the 2009 year to boost your pathetic argument! Give up Hasbeeno, you are on par with the Boks being way behind...

Jul 07, 2019, 05:03

Now Moolaa don't introducing facts to an argument with beenshit, you know how he only operates with make believe and the more ridiculous the fantasy the more he believes it.

Jul 07, 2019, 14:03

No things changed dramatically post isolation. The Boks today are a shadow of the Boks of old for the many reasons so often documented here by many posters. 

A number of posters have even said the Boks should have a name change as they disgrace the glorious per isolation record of the world's best team. 

You would have to be as dumb as poor Crusadertwit not to understand this. 

As for the future who knows. Nothing is cast in stone apart from the "mental" processes of certain kkbs! Hahahahaha!! Crash go the very dumb kbbs! 



Jul 08, 2019, 05:22

"Even concerning cheating - NZ are far better at it than SA."

I don't have a problem admitting that the AB's are better at rugby than the Springboks and that they play a better quality of rugby. I also believe that Richie McCaw was a serial cheat, kiwis will never admit to it, they're very protective and defensive of their own as we've come to expect. Just don't talk about fairness and cheating in the same breath.

Jul 08, 2019, 08:39

Aah, incorrect again Hasbeeno! The ABs had a better win % over all teams pre-isolation (or pre neutral refs as we Kiwis prefer to call it...) than the Boks so it was the ABs who were the greatest in that era.

Jul 08, 2019, 08:40

Aah, incorrect again Hasbeeno! The ABs had a better win % over all teams pre-isolation (or pre neutral refs as we Kiwis prefer to call it...) than the Boks so it was the ABs who were the greatest in that era.

Jul 08, 2019, 08:55

I wonder how the All Blacks would have fared playing with their own citizens?

I guess we'll never know.

The South Pacific Islands have been raped by the Kiwis for decades. I see they've helped themselves to another islander for the coming WC.

Haaaaaaaaahahahahahahaaaa. It's what they do.

Their own countrymen are simply too useless. They need the aid of other countries and a little cheat coaching comes in handy in a pinch, right Moolaa?




Jul 08, 2019, 09:11

Man I love listening to the farkin losers squeal like bitches. Hahahahahahaha  keep it girls :)

Jul 08, 2019, 09:11

Haha, jealous much CC?? Want us to send a few islanders in your direction to help out the ailing Boks??

Jul 08, 2019, 11:39

CC I have noted the nz exploitation of PI  oaks to bolster their Super Rugby sides. Of course nz and Oz exploit the PI Islanders and never do anything to help them establish their own identity. They are simply colonies to be exploited rugby wise. 

Such a great pity as the PI have so much to offer the rugby world in their own right. 

Now as to the question raised on this thread the answer is both. We all know the kbbs are cheats but how often don't the get away with it. Here you have to include the tribunals where they get much lighter sentences that us. 

Hence Justin Marshall stands as a shining light is the land of the the long dark cloud. Deep down I know the kbbs are not proud of themselves. They won't admit it of course! 

Jul 08, 2019, 20:02

Clearly a kiwi team has won a championship because the whining of SA fans has reached a crescendo, lol Well i'm disappointed as you all have been whining for years and you should have formed an orchestra or developed it into an opera or invented your own genre of music by now. We live in hope though.

Breaking news: Beeno leads the wayImage result for minion singing


Well at least he's well dressed:angel:

Jul 08, 2019, 20:30

Hasbeeno, do you really want to venture down the exploitation track with your country’s history over the last couple of centuries?? On second thoughts, you are indeed that stupid....

Jul 09, 2019, 07:39

Lots of foreign born players playing for numerous countries. Pocock is a Zimbabwean, like Beast. The NH have benefited from the eligibility laws too. However, there is no doubt that New Zealand have made a significant dent in the Islander player pool. 

In last year's RC, Australia had 13 foreign born players. Most in the competition. New Zealand had 3, whilst South African and Argentina had 1 apiece. 

Jul 09, 2019, 08:48

So moo moo South Africa's past can be criticized but it's so unfair to comment on nz exploitation of the PI. 

 No moo moo only in your bent and disturbed "mind" can that absurdity exist!

Crash goes da moo moo!! Yet again.


Jul 09, 2019, 08:51

JW you left out your little red and yellow car oak! The one you used to do your mole hunting in. Never recognizing a mole even when it bit your behind. Hahahahaha

Jul 09, 2019, 16:55

South Africa's history can only be talked about when attacking whites. Those are the rules of equality. 

Jul 09, 2019, 17:35

Herr Auge, I'm not blind to the horrors of the past, but it seems that the very worst of our past are all we are measured against. No hope for redemption or making amends...it seems we must suffer for there to be justice. I am tired of being accused....there seems to be no acceptable solution...I must be the object of hate...luckily there are some that have a better vision for my Land.

Jul 09, 2019, 20:42

One sees quite often people on American websites punting the idea that white South Africans should be given refugee status in the USA due to the persecution here. 

Wouldn't that be great!!! We would have to warn the USA abouts the pervs here and a few other undesirables. Can't have a few bad eggs giving us all a bad name! 

Jul 09, 2019, 21:07

America is exceedingly anti-white and past the point of cultural collapse. The only way is down. Deep down. The better deal was pushed by Russia, and I believe I did hear something from Australia earlier in the year. We'll see. The only useful refugee to the globalist is one who is violent, doesn't integrate and demands a handout. The refugee is the tool to erase cultural identity. Without cultural identity, there is no sense of nationality. Open borders. Superstate. The revived Roman Empire. I fail to see how helping a few whities would help further the agenda. 

 
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