Ardie Savea saves the Hurricanes

Forum » Rugby » Ardie Savea saves the Hurricanes

Jul 08, 2020, 00:10

With plenty of time left, a red card for the Canes and the Chiefs on their line.....the Chiefs looked good for the win. Two converted tries would have done the trick. In steps Savea, doing what the world’s best has never been able to do, and makes a game deciding turnover.

Nobody in their right mind would pick Dud ahead of Savea.

Jul 08, 2020, 00:12


Jul 08, 2020, 00:20


Jul 08, 2020, 08:06

Chippo, I think what Moffie is really saying is that he's dumb enough to think that Ardie Savea and Pieter-Steph du Toit play in the same position.

Noobs . . . gotta love them!


Jul 08, 2020, 08:46

Ardie played most of his test rugby last year on the blindside. Five starts at blindside, two at #8, one at openside. He's quite handy on either side.

Jul 08, 2020, 10:01

No one is disputing that Ardie Savea is a versatile player who can play in any of the loose forward positions. The OP refers to a game between the Chiefs and the Hurricanes, not a test match. In the game that the OP refers to, Ardie Savea was playing as a number 8. Pieter-Steph is a blind-side flanker or a lock. 

The suggestion that they would be competing for the same jersey - and Ardie would be the selection based on an incident in a game where he was in the #8 jersey - is a stupid one.

Jul 08, 2020, 10:28

No, it's stupid quarreling about it.

Jul 08, 2020, 11:22

Actually no, I think most people would agree that what's stupid is spending so much time and energy trying to prove to everyone that the 3 time SA rugby player of the year, current world player of the year and RWC player of the tournament is actually a crap player . . . just because of an ignorant statement you made years ago coupled with an inability to ever admit you made a mistake.

That's what I call stupid.

Jul 08, 2020, 12:58

Mozart is always a complete farce when it comes to rugby - he is always making claims easily disputed.  In the final Du Toit made a crucial turnover when the English were attacking in the Springboks 22.  So he does well in that Department on test level.   He is also a much better passer of balls than Savea is and was involved in that respect in a number of passes preceding tries in the WC. 

When Mozart made allegations about De Allende and  Dui Toit a person must always take his allegations  with a bag of salt - a spoon of salt will be way to little.

As to Savea he is very physical when carrying balls - but he is not the all-round player Du Toit is.  He definitely is less pacey Between the two Du Toit to my mind has better ball sense is is nearer too where the ball goes than Savea is.   Du Toit marked Ford at flyhalf easily and that neutralized the performance of the whole English backline in the Final - something Savea was not able to do in the semi-final.

Make no mistake - Savea is a top class player and a definite for any test team - to compare Savea and Du Toit on the type of basis Mozart does remain an exercise in  futility - they are two vastly different players - but each one has some stronger points than the other one.  


Jul 08, 2020, 17:30

Vs Ireland at the WC

15Beauden Barrett, FB 
14Sevu Reece, W 
13Jack Goodhue, C 
12Anton Lienert-Brown, C 
11George Bridge, W 
10Richie Mo'unga, FH 
9Aaron Smith, SH 
1Joe Moody, P 
2Codie Taylor, H 
3Nepo Laulala, P 
4Brodie Retallick, L 
5Sam Whitelock, L 
6Ardie Savea, FL 
7Sam Cane, FL 
8Kieran Read, N8


Jul 08, 2020, 17:38

Vs Boks at WC

15Beauden Barrett, FB 
14Sevu Reece, W 
13Anton Lienert-Brown, C 
12Ryan Crotty, C 
11George Bridge, W 
10Richie Mo'unga, FH 
9Aaron Smith, SH 
1Joe Moody, P 
2Dane Coles, H 
3Nepo Laulala, P 
4Sam Whitelock, L 
5Scott Barrett, L 
6Ardie Savea, FL 
7Sam Cane, FL 

.....blindside.  And let’s look at their numbers. Savea double the metres and beats 5 tackles vs 2 for Dud. A different but more effective player. 


Jul 09, 2020, 03:10


You obviously find it impossible to understand what I wrote so you stick with unadulterated rubbish trying to make out that Du Toit is a worse player than Ardea - but you left out an important issue in that game - Du Toit scored a try and that you did not reflect that at all.   Then you quote the Irish test figures of Ireland - who lost against Japan and barely made the quarters, 

Start thinking before you try and prove anything at all - because you are just making yourself a blinkered idiot again.  

Jul 09, 2020, 17:51

Well if I was picking a blindside flanker PSDT gets my vote over little Savea

If I was picking an openside Savea ahead of PSDT

It’s that simple really

For the record it’s not the role of a blindside to effect turnovers

Savea might play the odd game at blindside but the little man is not a blindsides backside

Jul 09, 2020, 18:14

He is also a relatively small player -  1,88 (6'2") weighing 102 kgs.   That is not an ideal situation when it come to blindside flankers - a bit on the small side as you pointed out.   Mozart would never accept a player like that at blindside flank for the Springboks - buy he saw an opening to launch his routine attacks on Du Toit.     

Jul 09, 2020, 19:06

Jul 09, 2020, 03:10


You obviously find it impossible to understand what I wrote so you stick with unadulterated rubbish trying to make out that Du Toit is a worse player than Ardea

Ardea Savea? 

Jul 09, 2020, 19:44

Small player? Could be worse, could have small game, like the lumbering totem pole Lood - biggest ever Bok, apparently. 

Jul 09, 2020, 20:30

On Nov 4 2019 I did this comparison of Savea and Steph's test stats for the year. "Little man"? If you can beat the defender 3x more frequently than the big man (calculated on carries per defender beaten), make 2.5x the meters (calculated on meters per carry), concede 30% fewer turnovers and nail almost every tackle, who cares what size you are?

Steph          -           Savea

51         Carries            82

127        Meters          483

7          Breaks            13

7          D. Beaten        34

0          Offloads           5

5.6     R/TO Conceded   8.2 (Concedes a turnover every x carries)

111      Tack. made      96

23       Tack. missed      2

83%    Tack. success    98%

Jul 09, 2020, 20:30

This is supposed to be a rugby discussion forum - not a comedy serious where the ill-informed give us all great delight by writing garbage on site.  

Jul 09, 2020, 23:05

Savea is a class act and by little I mean far too little for a blindside

So comparing him and Steph is a waste of time

They are completely different players playing completely different roles for their sides

It’s like comparing AB with Dale Steyn

Jul 10, 2020, 00:10

Savea carries better, tackles better, secures possession better and is more elusive; this is sounding more like the classic Saffer lump vs the skilled modern athlete with superior fundamentals and brains. We've seen this movie before. Dud1 and Dud2 simply cannot compete. Worse yet, all those blown coverages which don't show up in the stats!

Jul 10, 2020, 00:29

Those stats are pretty definitive Pakie. They are different players, but does one need a lock playing flank. Or is this a just case of the Bok pack being stronger than all their WC opponents except the we could afford Dud as a player with no real responsibilities.

I incline to that point of view after some reflection. The moment the Boks are matched up front the ludicrous use of Dud on the flank will become apparent. There were indications, for example  when he allowed himself to get trapped gifting the Wallies an overlap and their potentially game changing try.

Fortunately Louw can make turnovers and he saved the day.

Jul 10, 2020, 00:58

Steph was exposed for mobility with his poor defence around the ruck in 2016/17 - and then in the 2015 world cup when he played at 7

However, Rassie and Neighnaber have improved his defence and tackling technique. He is also more conditioned to play as a loosie.

He has certainly improved his game as a loose forward under Rassie.
In a quick tempo game, he might still get exposed for pace to the ruck- like a fast All Black back row. 

It would be hard to outmuscle the Boks with 3 locks on the pitch, and another on the bench. This is the big advantage of Dutoit over Savea. The Boks like to have a bruiser at blindside flank, with the 8 and 6 competing on the deck.

Jul 10, 2020, 01:12

Actually, that's complete nonsense. The only difference between 2016 and 2017 to the José reign is that J-Raz is so conservative that he doesn't expose the team to these poor defenders to the same extent. How many times did we see Steph blown up around the fringes? Just as many times as under Coetzee. This is the kind of nonsense I loath. Improved his defence? Laughable. He is exactly the same player today that he was four years ago. Nothing has changed. Just as Damian is exactly the same player that he was from the start. Steph is of little consequence at the breakdown. The Boks are organised to clean in twos and threes at the rucks, being very heavily scripted. Counter-rucking? No. Steph gives the Boks no advantage over any tier one opponent in any phase of the game; he never has and never will. He is a liability, and everything he does can be improved upon by numerous other players. He was ranked 17th best flank in Super rugby for good reason, and routinely ranks among the cellar dwellers for carry output. He is a defensive liability who cannot reliably read play. He isn't improving, and is unlikely to ever improve. He is a media driven farce. Nothing more and nothing less. Perhaps J-Raz's conservatism is a reflection of his confidence in his player's abilities to defend adequately. Coetzee's teams were sucker punched by turnovers and poor one-v-one abilities. 

Jul 10, 2020, 05:28

The two crazies at it again,   How weird can they be,   

Jul 10, 2020, 15:25

Process tackler/process hands, no explosiveness. Good energy.....good awareness on pick and go’s. Great press.

Jul 10, 2020, 17:07


Jul 10, 2020, 18:55


I quoted the stats on Savea's weight and height and then made a telling statement and that is that he would not be rated by you because of it.   I refer to a player which you called Liggies who was top class and played so well for Japan in the 2019 WV that statistically some of the real evaluators picked him as one of the loosies in the WC. team.   

You rate4d Alberts as  a loosie - a player that was less pacey than props and did near to zero in the games he played for the Springboks - and that shows your dismal knowledge of player performance evaluation.   Nothing will enter that deluded and prejudiced mindset of yours.   

I believe in what real experts said about Du Toit and what you are writing is absolute BS,            

Jul 10, 2020, 18:56


Ignorance and BS is bliss in your case. 

Jul 11, 2020, 23:54

Alberts has left a void no player has been able to fill. Not Steph, nor your other blue-eye Coetzee. You say he was too slow, well he was fast and mobile enough to defend in wider channels. I suppose being able to read play makes the difference, that's why Steph is so often miles off the pace as he chases shadows. :D

You are too easy. 

Jul 12, 2020, 01:18

And Alberts was explosive....he broke tackles.

Jul 12, 2020, 13:36

What a farce - Alberts was never explosive and one wonders how man tackles he broke in the career since his average meter gain as a Springbok was 2,2 meter per carry and on Super Rugby level 1,8 meters,   .  Totally pace-deficient - he was not a loossie's backside.

Could never protect balls at breakdowns and he never made a turnover in possession at breakdowns.   Could he pass balls?     

Jul 12, 2020, 15:24

Show us the source of your statistics.

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