Bring Back Super 12

Forum » Rugby » Bring Back Super 12

Nov 29, 2021, 13:33

So, both SA and Australia have a number of Internationals playing abroad, not to mention New Zealand. However, Super rugby is well and truly dead. We can also see that the Southern Hemisphere dominance has waned and I would like to point it to the demise of the Super Rugby. Trying to expand to fast and becoming greedy. 


We should never have made the season that long, Super 12 was an amazing competition. It started at the right time of the year which was in March, ran for three months and allowed players the best chance. Those games were almost test matches but with a bit more flair and freedom for teams to express themselves. Any team could beat any other team.


There are big global players such as Amazon would gladly pump money into the a revived Super Rugby comp, enough money for players to go around and not to mention that players can choose to play as a Medical joker abroad to prop up their finances. Especially around Nov, Dec, Jan and Feb when the European clubs need player cover during the internationals. 


Lets be honest, currie cup, NPC and what ever they play in Aus is dead. The only saviour is Super rugby and Test rugby for the southern hemisphere teams. 


The other truth about expansion is that there were never room for Arg or Japan. Argentina was actually better when their players played in France and Europe. 


So this is my proposal. 


  1. All 3 countries can only permit 4 teams. (Sorry NZ, but you have 5 teams from day one)
  2. Bring in a draft system, 25 home grown players to be contracted, but each team can add an additional 5 foreign players from within Sanzar. If you have a kiwi play for an Aus team, they should still have the opportunity to be selected for the all blacks. 
  3. Only run the league for 4 or 5 months max. If the NFL can do 5 months a year why can't super rugby. 
  4. If covid continues, turn it into a tournament hosted in one country over 3 months. Seeding games to be played locally. 3 or 6 games, then travel to the hosting country, 2 week quarantine with an 8 week contest. Guaranteed 10+ games. Have 3 pools, with each country having their highest placed teams in each pool. Top 2 of each pool qualify for quarters with a wild card game for the final 2 spots. 

Once the season has concluded, our players would be battle hardened and ready for the test season given that in the Southern Hemisphere we actually have an international season. Our autumn tours, Championship and our international tours. 

As I said before, fringe players can take up contracts in Europe for the remainder of the season or play in their local leagues. 

Nov 29, 2021, 18:23

100%

Nov 29, 2021, 20:28

4-4-4...equal partners and equal revenue split...same for 4N...I think Argie should still be part of that...

Nov 29, 2021, 20:45

Nope lets go North.

I am done with down under ref cheats like Berry.
Far too many players have left and leave SA due to wages we cant remotely match. Our best young players go overseas.
We never got a fair deal financially from OZ and nz.
Travel will be a lot easier.
How will good the playing conditions be is a question.
A change is as good as a holiday. I would like to see how we go overseas.
In due course when Oz and the kiwis come to their senses maybe consider a return on our terms. No more rooked refs and fair financial splits. However I cant see us ever coming back if the money is as good as I suspect it is playing up north. 
We field nowhere near full strength Super Rugby squads.  We need our players playing for our teams. Maybe that can happen if we go north.

Nov 30, 2021, 00:53

Seriously?

Do you really think you can go back to the good old days....

Australian rugby is a shadow of itself.   The grass roots game is declining at an alarming rate.

The financial gap between the NH and SH is gowning larger and larger.  

The time difference hasn't changed

The game has moved on and so has a lot of the top players.  The shift to the north is clear.  All the Amazons of this world will not save you.   The demand is not there for the product. 

And why would you want to go back, didn't they just kick you out of Super Rugby.  All I heard for the last couple of years how it wasn't working.

You have been warmly welcomed into two big competitions in the northern hemisphere where you will get buckets more money, better time zone and  an opportunity to re-sign your best players.  

I know you are better than your recent showing but unless you bring home some guys I think it would be deemed as a success if you got one team in the quarter finals of the European championship in the next three years.  The European Championship is a far higher standard than you have played so far.  Your teams are not that good.  

You talked about flair and freedom to play France and Ireland have taken the shackles off in the last 12 months and you have a bit to go before you can match Leinster, Saracens or several top 14 teams.  

Covid has put a real damper on your experience to date but I believe that your move the the URC will be great move for you and the competition.   You will be able to rebuild your professional game and their support base.  The future is the North.    

Nov 30, 2021, 01:09

Agreed SH rugby is better for us. Super rugby with every team playing the other side

4 SA teams 4 Kiwi teams 3 Oz 1 Argie 1 Jap

Nov 30, 2021, 05:00

I agree with Dave and the others - make it a 12 or 13 team competition.   However, there is a problem and that si New Zealand - who acted unilaterally and there is no TV sponsorship - which ultimately paid the major costs  of the participating teams and benefited especially New Zealand and Aussie teams in place.   

I don't know whether Supersport will enter into a new agreement as to  funding and broadcasting  matches - there is no indication in the media that such an agreement is being negotiated at present.  Without that agreement Super Rugby is dead and buried.           

Nov 30, 2021, 06:48

Would first like to see some success in the United Rugby Championship...and yes Boorad, they kicked us out and treated us like lesser partners while were there...

Nov 30, 2021, 12:38

Yes indeed the immediate future is definitely in the North. 

Leave Oz and nz to stew for a while. 

The Super Rugby comp has run its course for now. 

Be flexible and do what is best for South African rugby. 

Boorad hasn't experienced a full on South African Super Rugby side at full strength. 

Nov 30, 2021, 12:46

We got kicked out because of Covid, but the relationship was really strained. I agree that the north has potential, but we are really struggling with the refs at the moment. The bulls got so fed up that they just end up playing touch rugby to avoid penalties. 

We are not equal partners up north right now. The Welsh really don't like having us there but since we joined, the viewership numbers has gone through the roof for them. But mainly from SA. 

In terms of a spectacle, I do miss Super Rugby, but that said. The Irish teams has been the form team in Europe along with the French. The Welsh teams never seem to be able to challenge. 

However, what I loved about Super 12 was the fact that you can start your rugby viewing on a Friday morning and then end on a Saturday. 

Even though I'm a Stormers fan, I always shouted for the SA teams to do well. I would tune in to all the games the SA teams played against Aus or NZ. I just wanted us to win. We did well up until the super 15. 

But, the travel, time zones etc does weigh on the players. 

Lets see if we can get over omnicron and finally get to play some European teams in  SA

Nov 30, 2021, 12:57

Can you explain why Super rugby is better for SA  in any way going forward.

From what I heard your support base has fallen.  Your teams have become much weaker.  I looked at the 3rd lions test and 9 of the 15 starters were playing abroad.   Your revenue streams are well below the northern Hemisphere.   

In 2018 (pre covid) Income 69 million euro aprox.  Ireland 87 million (a tenth in size of SA) and England 176 million  (2 million smaller than SA)

I do think SA staying in Super rugby is better for world Rugby and for OZ and NZ.  It helps keep the southern hemisphere teams competitive.  

 

Nov 30, 2021, 14:22

Sorry I replied before I refreshed my screen. 

Number of valid points.   

The main winners for SA coming north is SA and Ireland.   The Irish teams need strong regular competition in the URC to bring their game to the next level.  The big money is in the European Championship and we have been failing on the last hurdle there because of lack of competition in the URC.  When SA get up to speed they will provide it and more.  

The Welsh are great as individual supporters but are the most begrudging, disloyal and over entitled group.   They are living in the past glories.   They are very badly managed and very poorly supported.  The rugby population resent the regions and don't support them because it split their clubs 20 years ago, they resent playing in the URC and want to play in the English league but the English wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.   They resent the fact that they keep getting their arses handed to them by the Irish.   They don't get the support because they don't win.

I agree you are not equal partners in the North.  You have just come to the table and you have to bring more than just your reputation.  You have to prove yourselves.  Success and then you can re-negotiate the terms.  I am sure that has already been discussed between the unions.

The difference in style of refereeing has been discussed in depth.   This is a short term hiccup and we just need to get used to playing each other on a regular basis.  Remember it is not a one way street.  The SA teams have refs visiting them at training and they give feed back to the refs after each match.   




Nov 30, 2021, 16:08

The main winners for SA coming north is SA and Ireland.   The Irish teams need strong regular competition in the URC to bring their game to the next level.  The big money is in the European Championship and we have been failing on the last hurdle there because of lack of competition in the URC.  When SA get up to speed they will provide it and more.  


Hopefully you are right, all depends on whether the SA teams can get back keep some of their best players. URC will hopefully provide more money to them so they can compete on an even footing, but as it stands the SA teams operate on around half the budget Irish teams do so it will be difficult for them to compete and its not something you can fix overnight. As it stands and at least for a few seasons I don't think the SA teams will be able to challenge the Irish teams for the URC.


Nov 30, 2021, 17:43

With what is taking place in our world I cannot see any company stepping up and sponsoring a Super Rugby style contest with OZ, NZ and SA.

The Pound and Euro will draw top players to their shores in droves.

Super Rugby had its day, I for one enjoyed the games but time to move on.


Nov 30, 2021, 17:51

Well, we first need to get past the "moronic" corona variant. :'(

Dec 01, 2021, 05:23

Whichever direction the funding needs to come from someone I have mentioned before... Amazon. They broadcasted 17/20 of the internationals in the north this Autumn series. Dstv is finished. 

Dec 01, 2021, 07:41

DSTV is finished?    Are they in financial trouble?     

Dec 01, 2021, 07:58

Streaming Mike.... take Walt Disney.... they gonna make more through their own streaming package than via Dstv. So Dstv is now focussed on the Africa market... where they have been doing well,but they going to have to continue doing well since your premium subscribers are vanishing. 
Funny enough a couple of our provinces have switched off the old analogue tv signal distribution...remember those old aerials.Streaming will switch off the expensive dstv digital signal eventually
.Netflix,Amazon,Showmax,Apple TV,Britbox,Video Play,Evod all for R651,which is below our DSTV premium per month

Dec 03, 2021, 01:07

I suspect that it won't be long before South Africa will be disallusioned with the UK competition.

I don't think this will work out very well for the South Africans.

Dec 03, 2021, 06:41

Oh, and why's that?

Dec 03, 2021, 10:39

I suspect that it won't be long before South Africa will be disallusioned with the UK competition.

I don't think this will work out very well for the South Africans.

They are not in a UK competition.  They are in two cross border European competitions.  URC - Ireland,  the UK  (Wales, Scotland) and Italy.  ERC - Ireland,  France, the UK  (England, Wales, Scotland) and Italy.   These are big competitions.  ERC is bigger than Super rugby.   


Dec 03, 2021, 11:13

So has the ERC participation been confirmed?

Dec 03, 2021, 14:35

"The Welsh are great as individual supporters but are the most begrudging, disloyal and over entitled group".

This somehow reminds me of you know who! :D

Dec 03, 2021, 15:41

Ja Beenz, he's been quiet of late.

Dec 03, 2021, 16:29

Draad, yes. Apparently, the highest rank team from each pool will qualify automatically. The remaining spots will be open to the all teams that finished the highest on the log. 

So, right now it might be the Bulls, but the sharks have the most boks. But, with another travel ban, not sure how it will go

Dec 03, 2021, 16:32

Coming back to Super Rugby. Lets be honest, NZ used the same amount of cash and found ways to hold onto their players. Aus to  a degree were able to do the same. 

In SA we just had to many players at each union. All of our unions have been for years selfish and poach any decent talent and put the new kids on the block on a massive R1 mil contract a year. 

They finally gotten rid of that, but just wondering whether we would have been better off with central contracts instead. Sign up to SA rugby. You go where you will get the most game time. 

Anyway, no point in pining over something that doesn't exist anymore

Dec 03, 2021, 17:24

"NZ used the same amount of cash"

Nope, they get big other revenue too and they've got way less "mouths" to feed than we do.

Dec 04, 2021, 00:05

Draad, can you elaborate on this “other revenue” you talk about that NZR gets?

Dec 04, 2021, 08:47

Allblacks match fees and sponsorship...NZ test Rugby gets more TV revenue than any other country and I believe they probably has the highest sponsorships too.


"The US insurance company has been a sponsor of the national body since 2012, signing a five-year deal at the time reportedly worth NZ$80 million (US$52.9 million). That arrangement was renewed in 2016 with AIG’s logo continuing to feature on the front of the shirt of the senior men’s team, the All Blacks."

Dec 04, 2021, 09:00

Being current World Champions and ranked no1 would probably sucure similar revenue for the Bokke...nevermind the fairytale rags to riches Kolisi and Mapimpi stories...Rassie's chemo therapy for a mysterious illness during the RWC...PSDT's RWPOTY...thinking about it now, our marketing people probably deserves more accolades...Chasing the Sun was a very good advertising campaign. 

A few years ago we struggled to secure a sponsor for the match day kit...how things have changed in only a few years.

Dec 05, 2021, 00:18

Super 12 won't come back .

Why would it - The South Africans would revert to the same old whinging and complaining.

South African participation down under is dead and buried.

No one wants them.

Dec 05, 2021, 12:26

Kiwi queenslander bet the oz franchises wouldn't get any URC contracts. 

Enjoy playing the kiwis every week. Hahhaahhahahahaha

 
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