CJ Stander Retire at the age of 30 from all rugby

Forum » Rugby » CJ Stander Retire at the age of 30 from all rugby

Mar 16, 2021, 12:37

So, our favourite debate on the oldest and smallest loose forward that we let go thanks to Meyer wanting some big boys in his pack. 


I know we will debate this, but got to give it to him. He as done really well playing 50 times for Ireland, British and Irish Lions, won European player of the year and the list gos on. 


For Mike, 30 is the right age to retire, but hen again, such a short career players have. 


Looks like he is packing it in for good. 


Some players would have hung around for another 5 years or so. 


I see Matt Gitaue popping up in US for Major league rugby at the tender age of 38. 


But then again, I think Stander body has taken  a proper bashing probably didn't have another 5 years left in him

Mar 16, 2021, 13:26

Yeah good old useless Meyer telling him he was too small at 115kg to make it as a test player. Fucking idiot - about sums the bubbling twit up.

50 test caps later and a Lion - turning 31 next month is a good call on a great career. He has been one of the consistently best loosies out there. Ireland’s go to, carrying the ball up.

He retires at the end of this season no doubt after the Lions series and is then returning to SA to live

Huge loss to SA rugby - great player

Mar 16, 2021, 16:06

I agree with what Dave write above - but for one minor issue, namely Meyer was not a "bubbling idiot", he wwas a "bumbling idiot"..        

Mar 16, 2021, 16:06

I agree with what Dave write above - but for one minor issue, namely Meyer was not a "bubbling idiot", he wwas a "bumbling idiot"..        

Mar 16, 2021, 16:22

Always lovely to see a player retire at the top of their game.

Like Frans Steyn. He knew when it was time to retire.


Mar 16, 2021, 16:43

Bingo

Well-written - those who stay on routinely damaged their reputation as players.   In the past decade there were  large number of players who remained in the game way past their sell-by date.      

Mar 16, 2021, 18:03

"Always lovely to see a player retire at the top of their game.

Like Frans Steyn. He knew when it was time to retire."


He, he! I saw that!:angel::D

Mar 16, 2021, 18:04

Well, the question is how long should a coach hang on to an experience player and what value can they add. 

I think Rassie bomb squad worked really well. Especially when you have Louw and Steyn on the bench that knows how to handle the pressure. Still good to start a test, but not sure if you can rely on them. So rather than asking a rookie to close out the game, use the old heads. 

So maybe Stander could have been a bench player for another couple of years and have a few more test starts, but looking at his frame, injuries etc and especially the way that he plays. Not sure  he would last. 

But how do you now how great a player is? I think Bismark could have still featured for us until  2019

Mar 16, 2021, 20:30

Injuries aside, there is no reason why a player can't play into their thirties. Look after yourself at least with a mild sensibility and you can go a long way; be at the cutting edge of preparation and conditioning, and you can be a Tom Brady. 

Mar 16, 2021, 21:18

De Villiers once said that  at  his age of  31 he has to train twice as hard to maintain his fitness level he achieved when he was 29 years old.   The prime performance age of players are between 25 and 30.    Once over 30  there is an increasing decline in performances and we have seen it in most Springboks over the age of 30,    There are very rare exceptions where deccline is slower, 

Take for instance the  Springbok squad of  2015    There were 13 players over the age pf 30 and all 8 unplayable players in the squad  was over 30 years of age,.    If one look at the Japan disaster in that series  all the over 30's in that match  were failures and if one look at the failures they include Kirchner, Habana, De Villiers, Pienaar, Burger, Matfield, Jannie du Plessis and Bismarck du Plessis.    Surely a recipe  for disaster is the only conclusion one can come to.   

             

Mar 16, 2021, 23:19

CJ already has an agreement with Jake White for the Bulls. You heard it here first. CJ will be playing in the hooker position while covering loose forward. 

Mar 17, 2021, 05:35

No loss to South African rugby.....Vermeulen is ten times the big match player Stampkar is. We would never have chosen Stampkar ahead of Vermeulen hence....no loss.

Mar 17, 2021, 07:44

Mozart

The real issue is retirement of players before they go performance-wise downhill and we could have used Stander ahead of  a dud like Alberts and  even Louw anyway,.   Anyway at the tome of his departure from SA Vermeulen was not the Springbok  8  -  Spies was/.    Vermeulen was only picked by the idiotic Meyer after Spies was  injured, and then made the no 8 position his own.             

Mar 17, 2021, 14:18

I get your point Mike, but the greats can play on and have proven that age is a  number. 

I also believe that with better training regimes and improvement in sport science that players can ad another 5 years to their careers. 

But  you are right, they need to work smarter  and play better. 

But you  should listen Schalc  Brits and  Burgher on how Saracens  managed them to  be able to  still  compete. 

At that  age  it   is not the   fitness  but fatigue  that you have to manage. The difference is,  they  have the skill, where as the you  guys still has a lot of work to do on their techniques and skill. 

So fitness becomes primary 

I also agree that Meyer had  too  many geriatrics in the team. 

Jean De Villiers and  Matfield should never have  been there. 

But then  Snorre also made a complete mess of our talent and not selecting the  right  players. 

It appears Rassie has  got us  on  the right track

Mar 17, 2021, 15:15

The players who took us out of WC 2015 were not the vets. Lomp missed a perfectly standard tackle for an AB try. Dud Allende allowed his man to run for 25 metres inside the Bok 22, creating a simple overlap and a try.


No vet could be tied to any AB score.....it was not the vets that lost to the ABs in 2015. Admittedly a narrow loss.....the Boks played the ABs much closer in 2015 than in 2019.


Those are the facts, the rest is nonsense.

Mar 17, 2021, 15:16

The players who took us out of WC 2015 were not the vets. Lomp missed a perfectly standard tackle for an AB try. Dud Allende allowed his man to run for 25 metres inside the Bok 22, creating a simple overlap and a try.


No vet could be tied to any AB score.....it was not the vets that lost to the ABs in 2015. Admittedly a narrow loss.....the Boks played the ABs much closer in 2015 than in 2019.


Those are the facts, the rest is nonsense.

Mar 17, 2021, 15:38

It is not just age, but time in the game. Not many players could play 10 seasons at the highest level. 


However, someone like Vermuelen is still playing fantastic rugby. 

Mar 17, 2021, 16:58

The average age for WC winning teams is north of 28, meaning many WC winning players have been in their thirties. Totally capable of producing 80 minutes of top class rugby... .15 games in a Super Season would require some sensible management for the 40 year olds.

Mar 17, 2021, 18:23

The Springboks in the 2019 final starting team had a total of 2 over 30 players - over 30's  are an exception to the rule.   In the semi against England the AB's had too many over 30 players and that is why they faded away.

The biggest disaster in the 2015 semi between the Springboks and the All Blacks was  MATFIELD.    

    

Mar 17, 2021, 20:04

Wrong again....we had 3 over 30 players starting....the Beast, Vermeulen and Willie. And without doubt Vermeulen and the Beast were our two best players.


Try again.

Mar 17, 2021, 20:38

CJ was a huge loss to SA rugby

Mar 18, 2021, 08:16

Willie was 30 when the final came around - when the squad was selected he was still 29 years old - hence my mistake.

That was a huge reduction compared to the team  under Meyer, taking into account the  8  unplayable players in the 2015 RWC.    

Mar 18, 2021, 15:59

Wrong again.....he was 30 before the WC started you moron. The truth is a bridge too far for you Tokkie, and then as usual you shift the topic.

Just admit you were wrong without trying to imply you really weren’t wrong.

Mar 18, 2021, 16:05

This point was made about Stampkar’s Irishness.

“Congrats on a great career CJ,” he wrote about Stander on Twitter. “But in my mind, someone getting residency after three years, making a national team and then moving back home as soon as they retire makes a mockery of the game far more than Pacific Island heritage players wanting to turn out after a stand down period.”

.....


Fair point I think, residency after 3 years is fine, but it has to imply an intent to be a permanent resident. 

Mar 18, 2021, 17:47

CJ was always going to play international rugby. That is why he went to Ireland. To go to the world cup and improve his chances of playing test rugby. I guess the boks could have done with him but I think there is far more competition in SA than in Ireland and then if you had Meyer as a coach. If a guy like puke watson couldn't even get into the team what was his chances. 

Mar 18, 2021, 20:11

Agreed Moz it’s why this whole playing for another country is absolute bullshit.

They should ditch the residency qualification and change it to where you attended say the last 3 years of your school education.

So if a SA’n wants to play for England he needs to have spent his last three years attending an English school in England

Mar 18, 2021, 20:26

Yes, some countries are better and some things, and vice versa. Propping up richer countries rugby teams with foreign players is BS. 



Mar 18, 2021, 23:13

I'd restrict foreign born players to those who came through at grassroots level. That means immersion in the culture and development by that country adoption. Taking older players is robbing other countries of what their systems produce. 

Mar 19, 2021, 16:25

To play for the national team ought to require a change in citizenship.

Mar 19, 2021, 16:37

Citizenship change is required from all players on test level . 

Mar 20, 2021, 01:08

So Stampkar is not a South African citizen?

Mar 20, 2021, 01:08

So Stampkar is not a South African citizen?

Mar 20, 2021, 08:24

I think South Africa made citizenship a requirement somewhere during Beast's career...there was a small period he wasn't allowed to play for the Boks IIRC.

Mar 20, 2021, 13:16

Change of citizenship and schooling in your adopted country should be the prerequisite to represent that country

Mar 20, 2021, 14:13

Ireland changes its eligibility rules that the player must be living in Ireland from three years to five years. I think that's fine.

I really don't see the need to gain citizenship. I mean Stander could of done that and still kept his SA citizenship as well as Ireland allows dual citizenship. I'm not sure why people think going to school in a country makes you think that's a fairer system or makes the person any more the nationality of the country he's attending school in than if he came over after a spent a few years in the country after his schooling had finished. Asides from which the reason many of these players end up going abroad is that their was no opportunities to play at a national level at home and that would not necessarily known until after their schooling was finished. Even if it was known its an absolutely massive decision for a young player to decide to up sticks and move abroad away from his family to pursue his education and rugby career in distant country. Even if the player wanted to he might not have the opportunity because the cost may be prohibitive.  

Mar 20, 2021, 15:52

There is nothing fine about 3 to 5 years it’s bullshit

The new rule worldwide is that a player has to be playing in that country for 5 years before he can represent that country

That is thanks to Pichot who pushed to have the qualifying period extended from 3 to 5 years

That’s an improvement but it’s still bullshit

Mar 20, 2021, 15:56

Why should a change in citizenship be required? Because otherwise we are just dealing with rugby mercenaries......which is fine at club level, not at national level.

Why should the Boks be playing a stronger Ireland, a stronger France, hell a stronger Japan....stronger because they are bolstered by South Africans who wouldn’t make our national team.

Then there are the more subtle player harvesting efforts by Oz and NZ in the Pacific.

The Boks are the only team in test rugby playing with only home grown talent. So it’s not only fair that eligibility rules are designed to include only genuine residents of a country ....it’s also in our interest.

Stampkar fails that test.

Mar 20, 2021, 16:09

Agreed and these days some of those SA players would make our test side or squad.

Duhan vd Merwe and Paul Willemse spring to mind

Mar 20, 2021, 16:43

Mozart

I assume  you have US citizenship - so why can other people mot take citizenship when they are employed in  other countries?    Most South Africans retain their SA citizenship and if  their work contract ends they can return to SA if they so wish.     

My nephew  went to England in  2000 and took UK citizenship - which he still has - he still owns a home and flat in Essex, but returned to SA in  November 2019  because he wanted his son to  go to his old school  Oakdale and now has a business in Still Bay,    He wants his son to go to Stellenbosch University after he has completed his high school studies,   Perfectly logical - as social problems in English schools  cause children to go  bad. 

Stander gave the same reason for his return to SA - namely the education of his daughter - so I see nothing wrong in his case as well.   Incidentally Stander also received his education at Oakdale,    

By the way you are wrong - Meyer and Coetzee made such a f#ck up with team selection that we lost players  that are now playing in foreign countries,    Instead of selecting teams on the basis of performance they selected them on the basis of reputation and  went further by selecting skill-deficient players  as well.      Why can the better players ignored by Meyer and Coetzee not go and play rugby in other countries  and make their national teams  in the process?         

Mar 20, 2021, 17:28

Sorry to clarify I meant Ireland changed it from 3 years to 5 years not that its 3-5 years.

For all the people going on about citizenship should be the deciding criteria well its actually quicker to get citizenship. In Ireland its take about 12-18 months to get on average and the person doesn't have to give up their original citizenship. 

Mar 20, 2021, 17:53

Lügnerin, your nephew isn't representing England, now is he. Do you perhaps see the difference, or are you so eager to be contrary that you leaped into a hole without looking? 

Mar 20, 2021, 23:06

Clevermikes nephew could have considered living somewhere nicer than Essex, arguably the chav capital of the South of England. Craig Fairbrass is from Essex, Southend by the sea. 


There are plenty of good schools in England, I actually know someone from Durban that is a school teacher here.

Mar 20, 2021, 23:07

Kindergarten Imbecile

Look at my first remark on Mozart's super idiotic statement. I was just giving another example of people returning to SA  by mentioning  my nephew and I never said he was a rugby player.

When did you achieve your degree  in super idiocy - I guess it was after Mozart - but how did you make it cum laude?    

Mar 20, 2021, 23:23

Sure  there are good schools in England - but it is not the teaching part that is a problem - tit is the environment of ill-discipline  and drug and alcohol abuse that is rampant at far too many schools/ on the kids environment.   That was what my nephew face as a reason,  

When I was in England  to see two rugby test matches in 2005, I met a  husband and wife who were both teachers working in England. on contract.    They both stated they could not return to SA soon enough,   Why should that be?    It related to ill-discipline in classrooms and poor conduct of pupils even in classrooms..             .   

Mar 21, 2021, 11:23

Maaik, South Africa has got lot's of problems, but for most South Africans it's still the best place on Earth...warts and

Mar 21, 2021, 11:23

Maaik, South Africa has got lot's of problems, but for most South Africans it's still the best place on Earth...warts and

Mar 21, 2021, 11:23

Maaik, South Africa has got lot's of problems, but for most South Africans it's still the best place on Earth...warts and

Mar 21, 2021, 11:23

Maaik, South Africa has got lot's of problems, but for most South Africans it's still the best place on Earth...warts and

Mar 21, 2021, 11:23

Maaik, South Africa has got lot's of problems, but for most South Africans it's still the best place on Earth...warts and all...home is where the heart is.

Mar 21, 2021, 11:36

Draad of the 45 or so in my class of 86 WhatsApp group very few share your sentiments about still being in SA

Mar 21, 2021, 14:11

Saf, it's difficult and I should have left long ago, but it will always be home, regardless of where in the world I find myself...it's in our blood...don't tell me you don't feel it in your gut too.

Mar 21, 2021, 16:50

Oh without doubt it’s home for me. It’s in my blood, my heart, my soul but it’s now sadly just an embarrassment, thanks to a bunch of ignorant clowns pulling the strings or what’s left of the strings to pull.

I love living in England and it’s home away from home - but I’m not British never will be never want to be despite no longer having a SA passport

Mar 21, 2021, 17:15

Mozart

You always manage  to make statements on this site that was dreamed up by you or are false - Beast was from Zimbabwe - and last time I checked Zimbabwe is not part of SA,    His citizen application was fast-tracked before his first test as a Springboks .

Mar 22, 2021, 01:26

South Africa is some of God’s best work....sadly the human equation has never worked despite the people being decent on an individual basis. The dreams of the British Empire, the Nationalists and the ANC have never been about the people. A pox on all their houses.

Mar 22, 2021, 14:27

Well, I haven't lived in SA for nearly 20 years, especially being from Cape Town etc. I always get the average pom going, what are you doing here and it is always the same reply. If I wasn't white and some stupid politicians I would have never left. 

England is my home, but if the Western Cape can get independence I would go home in a heartbeat. 

That said, England is not too bad. You get use to the weather and actually learn to enjoy it. 

Just spend the weekend Hinging 15 km in Surry and enjoying Box hill. No mountain, but it was enjoyable enough. 

Can't say I'm a fan of Brexit, but with Covid and all. Who knows what European holidays would look like. 

But for me, my home has changed so  much. The town keeps changing for the worst. Squatter camps seem to get bigger every time I go back or some monstrous beach  front development.  

Work, Crime and then cape town can also get super windy which doesn't make a day at the beach great.  This can last for weeks. 

Most of my friends have emigrated to NZ, Aus or England and all of us  have our families. So it doesn't matter what I had back then, it is no longer the same. Ja, I miss the braais, being able to rock up anyones house. Go play  a round  of golf, surfing and just enjoying being with friends. 

But that is all gone. So no, I miss the old  life but  I wouldn't take SA as it is right now

Mar 22, 2021, 14:51

But also, Limerick is a stink hole. I spent a year living in Dublin and anyone would tell you to avoid that place. I'm surprised Stander lasted this  long there. 

Any boy from Pretoria would happy to have the  crime than live in Limerick. 

Look the guy has a  you family, wants to be home with his wife and kids. Tired of traveling. Probably got enough dosh in the bank. 

Hopefully he won't pull  a Goosen  stunt. But then you have older guys that just don't know when to quit the game. 

Like  we have in SA, Geo Aplon, Morne Steyn etc taking up spaces of where young oaks could  gain experience. 

There is a difference if they were player/coaches and  only  there in a backup capacity,  but when  they are featuring it  doesn't bode well

Mar 22, 2021, 14:51

That’s the crux I miss the old days not the current cock up that is SA

A friend of mine living in CT is moving as he says it’s going to pot

Mar 22, 2021, 14:56

The equation we had in the sixties in the Cape was fantastic. Hell even the sharks never attacked. As for the wind, it affected golf, but for the beach you could always go to Clifton when the South Easter was rampant. The occasional South Wester had no answers, but it was usually brief......and the berg winds meant surfing at Muizenberg  was going to be great and the air was going to be like silk.

A year in CT in the sixties was worth 3 years anywhere else. Every visit you get a glimpse of that magic that was. That’s why after a long absenceI bought a house in Bantry Bay which I had for 10 or so years. It was the perfect antidote for Chicago winters.

But then our neighbors next door were held up at knife point and all the valuables taken. My friend across the road, who was at UCT with me was robbed on New Year’s Eve, we watched the serious black dressed cops on their roof.

And a friend round the corner on Nettleton Road held a party, sent his guests home only to find a few unwanted guests had remained. They locked him in the toilet while they ransacked the house....he was convinced they were white and were going to top him. But he escaped through the window, making a big jump.

Then when we found the wires for our emergency response service had been cut, presumably by our own security staff....that convinced me it was only a matter of time and we exited. Sadly and reluctantly.

Stamp obviously has strong ties back home, who knows what’s right for any man. But he will revisit that decision many times in his life.

Mar 22, 2021, 16:04

Stander is married to Ryk Neethling's sister and the family has farming roots in the George area,  That is why he went to the Oakdale Agricultural High School.   Every year he spent time in SA  he visits  the school.   

Although not from a farming perspective as wealthy as the Du Toit family. I do not think they are not wealthy.   He will probably take over the running of the family farm from his father.           

Mar 22, 2021, 16:20

Ja, well I booked a couple of tickets to go to Cape Town in September for a couple of  weeks, but it was only because the flights were super cheap and was 4 years ago since I've been back.  

Mar 22, 2021, 16:29

I have been to Limerick briefly as I travelled through to surf on the west coast of Ireland, and suffice to say it is rough, much rougher than Essex or any place in the UK.

 
Limerick is also known as the stab capital of Ireland. More chance of being robbed in SA, but probably more chance of being attacked for no reason in Limerick, or more likely stabbed. 

Mar 22, 2021, 18:24

Ja, that is what the people said in Dublin, stab city. My flat mates was actually from Limerick. But it was hilarious when I met him. 

I moved into a house share only met one of them, but then walked in and thought, who is this child. It was dwarf, Irish, from Limerick. I thought, is this a leprechaun? Fortunately, he wasn't ginger or I would have caught him and ask for his croc of gold 

Mar 22, 2021, 20:13

Hahaha....delightful little anecdote Corn!

 
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