Does SA have any decent coaches? Who should take over the bok reigns

Forum » Rugby » Does SA have any decent coaches? Who should take over the bok reigns

Jan 10, 2023, 13:33

I think a couple of you on here brought a couple of good points on who the best coaches are. If you ask me, I would love to see Scott Robinson or even Ronan Ogara take over the reigns. They play a fantastic brand of rugby, BUT, it was at club level. We have seen with Australia that winning a club comp doesn't mean that you will succeed at international level. Robbie Deans as well as Dave Rennie are founding out the hard way. So what does it take to produce a successful coach? 


Here is my thoughts and why I think we sometimes get carried away and don't look at the talent or players that the coaches have at their disposal. I do believe that it takes a special coach that have worked with the players from age group and have a long standing relationship as well as great results behind them. 


Case in point, many of the players that we see in the boks squad today came through WP u21 academy. Kolisi, Etzebeth, Malherbe, Kitshoff to name a few. Wonder why Eldstadt gets called up or even Fourie. It is because Niena and Rassie know these guys. 


For a while we all thought that Swys and Ackerman should take over the boks, but they Lions have not turned into also ran and neither coaches are at the top of the coaching tree. Swys is a pundit and Ackerman Japanese team got dropped from 1st to 3rd league Japan rugby. Neither did he set the world alight. We have Alastair Coetzee, took over the reigns under Rassie, has some success but never won anything. He got a job in Japan and now have been exposed as a mediocre coach. 


The big question, is Scott Robertson as good as everyone makes him out to be. Look, he is the coach of the Crusaders and like so many other coaches before him. The Crusaders have been the top team in professional rugby. This is a union that just knows how to build a rugby team from their youth structures. Who remembers Aaron Major, fantastic 12 for them but when he left the Crusaders to play for Leicester he just became average. 


I believe that their are very few coaches that can transform a team and be successful vs those who have the luxury of a fantastic union with a lot of talented players to work with. 


As for SA, there have been so many quota appointments that I don't see any of our u21 coaches one day taking over the boks and leading us to a World Cup as our talent and teams are fragmented with limited success. 


Thoughts?

Jan 10, 2023, 13:43

The only SA coach in my mind is Dobbo, he has been part of WP for many years. He had some really poor results after taking over but as time went on managed to find his groove and get the most out of his players and now has a URC title. The Stormers is the 2nd best team in the URC and will have to wait and see how this season pans out. 

Jake has fallen to the way side, great at implementing structures and has a great eye for young talent. But comes short on match days and tactics. 

Neil Powel is fresh, got the sharks back to winning ways but then sent a B team to Ireland, probably didn't have a choice but also didn't travel with the team. 

I don't even know the name of the Lions coach, but then that union hardly has any decent players and get take several years to build back to where they were. Doesn't help that Destroyli is in charge of the cheque book and refuse to bring back their key players. Imagine the likes of Kwagga, Mostert, Marx and RJV back in the mix how much better they would be. If the sharks could do it, why not the Lions? 

Franco Smit has been an absolutely failure but he does seem to have some to hit some purple patches. He bombed as Italy coach, now coaching Glasgow that just beat the Stormers. But not sure that he is a great coach. 

We have Ackerman in Japan but his Gloucestershire team did okay, thanks to taking some Lions players with. 

Frans Ludeke is still coaching in Japan but his teams are performing okay. Don't forget that he actually won 2 Super rugby tittles. The first went to Meyer. Then look at the bulls players that got them that success. Matfield, Bakkies, Steyn, Habana etc. 

We are either stuck with Rassie or perhaps time for Dobbo?

Jan 10, 2023, 14:05

Maybe we could talk Nick Mallett out of retirement?


I know, there's more chance of ou Maaik making a legal postal vote for the Democrats in the next US election than Mallett going back to coaching but he still has the best rugby brain in the country. Swys could be his assistant.

Realistically, yes, probably Dobson. The best of a very bare cupboard.

Jan 10, 2023, 14:10

KC

I think there is no resignations or enforced vacancies at this stage.   Erasmus is officially not the coach - he is Director of Rugby and that will not change after the 2023 WC.    There are a few potential candidates - but if any vacancy occurs the agreement  between Erasmus and SARU will kick in - he will have the final say in filling of vacancies amongst the coaching staff.

We know that Nienaber was appointed based on the agreement and so were all the other coaching staff members.    

There are some coaching staff members who may go and if that is the case with the head coach there are two potential replacements namely Dobbo and Powell - I do not think White has a chance to be appointed - he is way too controversial and do not have the ability to deal with backline play.                     

Jan 10, 2023, 14:13

Rooinek

About a legal postal vote - LMAO.   You must check the Democrats possibly submitted a vote in your name anyway.  

Jan 10, 2023, 14:46

Mike, I think Rassie is the the Head coach but uses his assistants as a proxy. No other coach on the planet would work under those conditions. I haven't see Rassie do much for the rest of SA's rugby teams and his focus has solely been on the boks and that he can pick and choose which matches he wants to attend our trips he wants to go on. Like we saw with the A games, the minute the shit hit the fan, Rassie dumped the opportunity to work with those players and stayed with the A team. 

Then, my biggest fear is that Stick or Deon Davids will become the boks next head coach. Not because of race but they have no credible record and we have had two black coaches with no success or limited. I do not credit De Villiers, the man is a fucking idiot and John Smit and Matfield pretty much coached the boks in 2009 irrespective on De Villiers incompetence. Also, him calling Matfield a racist and omitted the best 5 in the world at the time. 

If you look at the age group, yes we won the 6 nations but there was no Argentina, NZ or Aus playing and we know how good NZ youth teams are. Those players stay in the system too and go on to become All Blacks. So I don't see how Bfana, the SA u21 coach have the right to coach the boks in 2 to 4 years time. 

I have to agree with Saffex based on recent results at the bulls that Jake Whites days are over. Great coach, been a fan for many years. 

I want to see a coach that has had success with a core group of players from age group all the way through to franchise level. Ackerman was the right man instead of Coetzee, but my question is who should be next. 

Not saying Dobbo is the answer, but to my mind he has the best credentials

Jan 10, 2023, 14:56

Jake is the first and foremost candidate. However, given how things work in SA, he will never be back. There is so little understanding in how to discern a coach's ability. This alone tells me that SA has a very bleak future in rugby. We need an architect who can rebuild. Only Jake and Meyer tick that box. The very thought of Mallett cannot be taken seriously. 

Jan 10, 2023, 16:06

I keep to the actual legal situation - namely that Erasmus is the Director of Rugby and his contract is not linked to any time limitations.    All the coaches of the provincial franchises also falls under him.  At5 this stage the discussion is not pertinent or even under consideration.

I think it is rather futile to discuss the situation at this stage and one wonders what the situation would eb at the end of this year.   In the event of the Springboks winning the WC again - and I am quite optimistic about that one - the situation is unlikely to change even at the end of this year.          

I do not fall for the bs of l' Grande Merde - he has no idea about rugby and writes shit on site.          

Jan 10, 2023, 16:06

I keep to the actual legal situation - namely that Erasmus is the Director of Rugby and his contract is not linked to any time limitations.    All the coaches of the provincial franchises also falls under him.  At5 this stage the discussion is not pertinent or even under consideration.

I think it is rather futile to discuss the situation at this stage and one wonders what the situation would eb at the end of this year.   In the event of the Springboks winning the WC again - and I am quite optimistic about that one - the situation is unlikely to change even at the end of this year.          

I do not fall for the bs of l' Grande Merde - he has no idea about rugby and writes shit on site.          

Jan 10, 2023, 16:19

Find a smart Bok player who is about 10 years into retirement….or will be about 47 or 48 at the WC. That’s the right age to relate to the players and be fully in touch with the game today. Fourie du Preez strikes me as a pretty astute guy, make him assistant now and head coach after the WC.

But please, let’s not go down the AB route of grandfathers as coaches.

Jan 10, 2023, 16:26

Swys…i don’t care how depressed he is.

Jan 10, 2023, 16:40

Fourie Du Preez hated leadership. He is a very smart man, and the Japanese were very impressed with his leadership ability and his intelligence, but he is not a very vocal person. He likes to focus on his job. I think he could be very successful as a coach, if he wanted it. I wonder what Matfield is up to. He and Jean De Villiers were always key cogs in the gameplanning. I'm sure they would be excellent candidates. 

Jan 10, 2023, 16:52

Dobbo and Swys.....and Fourie du Preez would definitely make a difference.

Jan 10, 2023, 20:08

Rassie for as long as he wants it

Post Rassie we need a foreigner as none of the locals are good enough except for Swys but he does not want it

What we don’t need is going back to no hopers like Jake

Jan 10, 2023, 20:58

Since WC 2019 we have regressed, well that's atleast according to latest stats....so although Rassie has done well in certain areas, in a whole We have stagnated....in the past or to the beginning of Rassie,s term, we were still able to grind out those close games against top opposition....WC is all about those close games and winning....we have lost that winning composure and better get it back quickly, otherwise WC will be short lived.

Jan 10, 2023, 21:09

That's very optimistic Mpower. 2018 was worse than Coetzee's 2017, he kept the team 6th right up until the defeat against New Zealand in the World Cup. We never had a real peak. Living off of double ranking points and a year of no participation to bloat the myth. The Boks have never been good under Etasputin.

Jan 10, 2023, 21:48

This might be true, but there is no use going back to the likes of White, Meyer, Coetzee, Mallett....as Consultants by all means, but as headcoach it was tried and did not succeed. Rassie in my opinion is also not the answer.....the only coach I can see right now that is embracing a more Balanced style of Rugby or atleast trying,  is Dobbo....so we do have good local talent that can be utilized.

Jan 10, 2023, 21:57

Meyer gave the fans a balanced game, it couldn't possibly be more balanced. The fans didn't want that. They want a figure like Erasputin, a braai kak praat kind of guy. It seems to be the thing that soothes them. To heck with performance. The presence of Erasputin exposed the hypocrisy, as he gave the fans everything they claimed to hate. Right down to the T, but he has been given a cushy ride all the way through. I can't think of another coach who has had it this easy. 

Jan 10, 2023, 22:21

He surely loves " Kak praat " and talking in general, just can't help himself :D

Jan 10, 2023, 22:43

Bullshit we have not regressed - we had a good EOYT playing nice attacking rugby

We were better than Ireland losing that thanks to piss poor officiating and bad goal kicking

We were better than France losing that thanks to an early red card

We demolished Italy and England

As Shaun Edwards said the Boks are probably the best side in the game right now

We are looking good heading to the WC

Jan 10, 2023, 22:54

We were inaccurate, sloppy, disorganised, unable to coordinate in any meaningful way and needed totally free open space to run into. This team is a mess. Erasputin is an embarrassment. 

Jan 10, 2023, 23:26

Doos how many times do I need to tell you no one and I mean no one gives a fuck what you think

Are you seriously too fucking stupid to comprehend this fact

With anything you have to say on rugby - the complete opposite is true and I mean that literally

If you say a player or coach is shit - the opposite is true - Rassie, Kolisi, Am, Kolbe, Willemse, de Allende, Lood, Faf, PSDT etc

Then we get Jake, Coetzee, Meyer, Morne, Mostert, current Frans Steyn etc

Give it up man

Jan 11, 2023, 04:28

After completion of WC 2019 Boks finished on a 65.38 win percentage....if Rassie and Nienhaber is really as good as what is being proclaimed, why did we not build on that win ratio since 2019? Instead we have gone down 3% and dropped to 4 th in World Rankings.

Jan 11, 2023, 12:20

MP

You missed the real point totally.     Meyer was largely respsonsible for the mess.  He concentrated on players who were totally useless by 2015 and his WC squad contained 8 unplayable players.   Players like Pollard were in and out of the Springbok team regularly.   In the process it can be said that he played ping pong with players, 

In the period 2016 and 2017 Coetzee did not know how to select and develop players and some of the more experienced players like Le Roux were never used by him.   He developed no combinations and the team deteriorated horribly.   In the end he was fired due to total incompetence.  He ended up coaching in Japan - while Meyer ended up coaching Stade Francais.   Both came near to destroying the clubs they were coaching and was fired as a result.  

 Erasmus took over the Boks in 2018 - a totally demoralized group of players who lost against everybody - even Italy.    Erasmus had to try and get the previous Springboks back into the game of rugby as professional players and had to find a number of replacements in the Springbok set-up.     So the problem was what to do to get some semblance of order in the team.   

He started off using tests to experiment with potentially promising players from provincial franchises in SA and Clubs in Europe.    An example is the team who played Wales in Washington only had 5 previous Springboks in the squad - the other 18 players were all newbies.   In the end 2018 was used as a year in which new players be brought in and the neglected previous Springboks invigorated.    By the end of the year most of the selection problems were solved - but some site members scream doomsday because of the fact that the developing team lost matches.

So now back to 2022.   There were some of the WC winning team of 2019 that had to be replaced as a result of retirement - while some players lost form badly and their performances went down.   There were also a number of injuries that seemed to be hard to recover from - eg Pollard and Du Toit.   Although there were less problems at the start of 2022 than at the start of 2018 - there were still some experimenting with new players necessary.   

Dealing with issues objectively the situation is that the end result will be a far stronger player group at the start on 2023 than there was in 2019.    There will still be minor problems - mainly due to injuries that need to be dealt with - the situation is much sounder at present than it was in January 2019 and we all know what happened in the rest of 2019.

                                            

  

Jan 11, 2023, 12:50

Because Rassie got banned and was far less hands on with the team

Jan 11, 2023, 13:41

Saffex, if you really want to send Doos XL over the edge, tell him Pat Lambie was a decent test flyhalf.


Don't forget he also told us that he'd pick Zane Kirchner ahead of Israel Folau.

Jan 11, 2023, 13:54

Doos XL and DumbPlum have a lot in common.

Jan 11, 2023, 14:42

Rooinek and Denny

Please do not call him Doos XL - that si unfair to doos's.   I call him l'Grande Merde - which means the Greatest Shit but am afraid it is unfair to shit to even call him that.    

Jan 11, 2023, 14:42

Rooinek and Denny

Please do not call him Doos XL - that si unfair to doos's.   I call him l'Grande Merde - which means the Greatest Shit but am afraid it is unfair to shit to even call him that.   

What I do know is that he knows nothing about either rugby or cricket.  So acept the mutterings of the moron should best be ignored.   

Jan 11, 2023, 15:02

Yes but he's not just any old Doos, he's an XL one.

Jan 11, 2023, 15:56

The insults are in direct proportion to your inability to debate with Deus…L’Grande indeed.

But I ‘acept that you is trying hard’.

Jan 11, 2023, 16:16

That is true that Rassie made us better and took us to the top in 2019, but after that he started neglecting fundamental facets of our game, like structured attack, poor team Selection, Gameplan, Defence....Rassie,s self inflicted ban did play a big Role yes, and we haven't seen any positive effect on Reffing....more a negative image on the Boks because of the Hoo Ha....when it comes to player injury + Selection, much sooner in his term Player Depth could have been created by R&N to cover for those main position players.....instead they cling onto old players or players out of form just because of past Reputation.....in my opinion these are some of the Reasons for us dropping in those stats.

Jan 11, 2023, 18:36

This thread and this board in general could serve as a case study for people who let themselves defined by their consumption.

In this case, consuming rugby is a major facet of their life and anything threatening to modify rugby is unsettling.

Jan 11, 2023, 18:40

Every coach is limited by the players at hand. SA rugby players are not proper to the game of rugby. They can not play it.

No coach can not change this. Any coach is doomed to produce the very same lack of rugby as of today.

SA rugby are at least two generations behind, the current one is unable to play rugby and the next one is crushed by the emergency of using rugby as a ticket to flee the living nightmare theirs ancestors have created, blaming quota people for being unable to correct the course.


Jan 11, 2023, 18:46

As Shaun Edwards said the Boks are probably the best side in the game right now

Many people out there. People who disrespect other people's opinions. People who disrespect their own opinion.

Usually, SA rugby supporters use a pretext to condone their team's inability to play rugby the winning way. They do not play rugby but they win.

They can not even cling to that pathetic pretext as now, winning is not even a factor.

Without they win or lose, their brand of rugby is excellent.

Jan 11, 2023, 18:51

we had a good EOYT playing nice attacking rugby

The EOYT happened as it was foretold to happen, SA rugby relying mostly on the only mattering parameter for them: freshness.

Players were purposedly rested in order to benefit from a freshness advantage, yet the game was lost against less fresh teams.

Playing nice attacking rugby, what a power of mind to imagine things.

Already if SA rugby could apply themselves to play rugby (forget the nice and attacking), that would be a such change.

Jan 11, 2023, 23:51

An example is the team who played Wales in Washington only had 5 previous Springboks in the squad - the other 18 players were all newbies.  

There were 9. If you are going to tell it, tell it correctly. Of the new caps, there was Kwagga, Nche, Jenkins, Mapimpi and Esterhuizen. Hardly lean pickings, and form players that year. 

Erasmus had to try and get the previous Springboks back into the game of rugby as professional players and had to find a number of replacements in the Springbok set-up.   

The core of Erasmus' team in 2018 were all previously established under Snor, Meyer or Coetzee. Of the new caps, only Dyanti, Nkosi, and Mapimpi would see regular game time and make the first team. The 30 key players aside from them were all previously capped and established. 24 of those 30 were core players, all of whom had 10 or more previous caps period to Erasputin. Michael, you are simply making it all up as you go along

Jan 12, 2023, 00:59

No coach has done less to bring in new Boks than Harrassmiss.

Jan 12, 2023, 01:24

I sense a lot of us on here had enough of Rassies antics. One thing I know is that Rassie was better than Snorre and Coetzee. He is on Par with Meyer. However, the more I think about it the more confident I become in that we may go further in this World Cup. 

I hate losing any test match, but, come to think aboutit. Rassie cobbled scratch teams together and must have known it will be tight. Want to test the players to see if the can cope with the pressure and prove they belong their. You not going to see a players worth if he comes on as a sub. I don’t like that as I prefer to build a player up but when can you test a player and get near World Cup final conditions.  Maybe why we ran Ireland so close as well as France. He will use that to motivate the players later this year when play Ireland in our pool. 

He is also probably one of the best tournament coaches and knows how to play knock out rugby. Look what he did with the Cheetahs, first a draw then they won the Currie cup against a springbok laden bulls team. 

I don’t like what he has done by only having a 60% win ratio. 

But, which ever team win this World Cup out of group a or b will be the undisputed champions. 

We have 1,2,3 and 4 In the world with only 2 of those that could make the final. 

My prediction would be is that we thump Ireland, France beats New Zealand. We play New Zealand in the quarter, knock them out and then play either Aus or Eng in the Semi with a show down against France and win the dam thing. 

All of these games will be close and a stupid ref call can mean the end. Maybe Rassie is breathing down the refs neck because the refs will know if the ruck up that they will get grilled on social media. 

So who ever wins will be the undisputed champions that faced the best teams. SA has the chance to beat all the teams in the top 5. 

Now, is Libbok ready for this, can we get Pollard back into form just in time for the big game. 

Should be exciting 

Jan 12, 2023, 10:48

Agree with you about the above.   I have to say that members like  l'Grande Merde and Mozart went ballistic against Erasmus - based entirely on a deceptive career record and they never stopped once attacking him.   They admitted they wanted White appointed and not Erasmus.

There are to my mind two positions that worry me about the Springbok team and that is flyhalf and number 8.   Maybe because of injuries Pollard's recent performances have been questionable at best; and Vermeulen is in the same position.   

         


 

Jan 12, 2023, 13:35

Look Mike, I don't want you to get the wrong idea that I'm all onboard with Rassie now. 

Yes, there are really valid points on here whether Rassie ever capped new boks. 

However, all of the Stormers players or those that have played for the Stormers came through the youth system when he was at the Stormers and the director of the stormers. 

Meyer brought a lot of talented players through the system too, like Pollard, RG and Kriel. 

So if I'm being objective, it is unfair to say Rassie had no influence on capping the boks. 

It is the same what White and Dobbo are doing. They are bringing the best out of the young players the lead to caps. 

Bulls under white

- Moodie, Arendse, Gobbler, Norje 

Stormers - Dobbo

- Libbok, Roos 

Rassie - Stormers

Kittshoff, Malherbe, Etzebeth, Kolisi, Deon Fourie, Pollard (Yes, WP age group player that got poached by Meyer for the bulls. Schalc still haven't forgiving Pollard for going to the bulls), De Allende, Kolbe

Rassie - Cheetahs

Vermeulen, then Stormers , Frans Steyn

Ackerman / Swys - Lions

Marx, Kwagga, Mostert

So the bulk of the bok team come from when Rassie was at the Stormers. 

I think it may also limit him, he may not have capped them but he is sticking with players he knows. However, the Stormers were a good team, not a great team that never won any trophies until the WC and then those few at the Stormers got the URC championship. 

Rassie has a massive blind spot in that he is too loyal and not willing to bring in players when the should have been brought.  

He is also to conservative and only selects players that can follow his game plan. It works to a degree but it also robs the boks from switching gears. 

I don't think Rassie ever won against a tier 1 team by more than 3 scores. Most of the games are tight. No wonder he has a go at the refs. Not that it is easy, but with this team he should have walked through the past 3 years and won more game. Ireland has a 70%+ win record. No excuse for having 60%

So, yes, I want to stay positive, he has contributed significantly with player development even though he didn't cap them, but he is blind in bringing in younger and better players through. 

Gobbler should have been capped more than Dweeb as he is the best 2 in the country after Marx

Roos should have been on 10 caps

Libbok should have been part of the bok squad and not Elton Jantjies

Esterhuizen should have gotten more caps

Vermeulen should not have been brought straight back in against the AB when not fit

Willemse as a 10 and kicker when he couldn't establish himself in that position at the stormers. Great to have a backup there, but he only had one match winning kick, the rest was match losing kicks on cost us 3 games. Should have been more at 12 and 15 for the boks. 

So no, 2022 was a year of fuck ups. 

The other problem is that Rassie is definitely playing the quota players such Orie and Moerat, Mcunu etc that shouldn't be near the boks squad. He is so obsessed with meeting his quota that he and Mark Alexander is happy to lose a few games. All the other coaches had a spine and would not stand back to the ANC, even when they got threats. 

Don't get me wrong, I rate Rassie very highly, but he needs to change or fuck-off. 

Hopefully with the WC trophy, if not, could be an 

Jan 12, 2023, 15:56

Well said KingKorn and I also hope we will win.....but looking @ past season and your points, Rassie won't change much he should rather go....he has had all this time since 2019 to improve everything so how long must we still wait?? 

Jan 12, 2023, 18:31

Erasmus implemented the defensive approach which prevented the turnover tries that were deathblows to Coetzee. That was where his influence began and ended. Which players have flourished under him? None. Our best players look ordinary the more they are exposed to his philosophy. Our best players can hardly get on the field. His analytics are poor, his tactics are poor, his game planning is abysmal and archaic. It looks no better than Straeuli's Boks. The only difference is that our primary foes are at an all time low. Erasmus began with a worse record than Coetzee with his 2018 season, which was given a pass. Then 2019, a season where we were 6th after the WC loss to NZ. It's myth that he developed this team. There is no such evidence. You all fell for the feel good hype. 

Jan 12, 2023, 21:57

I definitely think that professionalism has come on a lot over the past 5 years. Munster and Bristol put out 2nd string team and beat the bok A team. Although, half those A players were not even starters but quotas or coached by a quota. 

At least Rassie stopped the bleeding that we had to endure under Coetzee. 

I also agree that the international teams may not be as strong as they use to be. 

Probably because of too much rugby and less time for teams to get up to speed. The only time a team arrives fully conditioned is at the World Cup. 

But New Zealand and Aus has suffered because of Super Rugby no longer being the comp it use to be. 

Eng and Far play way to many games a season, but then I also look at the URC teams where those teams like Leinster play 25 games a season. 

We have always received week teams from the North, but the last couple of seasons they have actually send over some decent teams. Like Ire beating NZ, Eng beating Aus etc. 

Back when the Southern Hemisphere rugby was strong and international player from SA, Aus and NZ would play something like 11 to 14 super rugby games. Then 12 test and maybe 4 to 6 currie cup games. We had all the best players at home, playing against the best of Aus and NZ. 

Now all these players are either in Japan, Eng, France and the league is a lot weaker. 

I don't see how NZ or Aus will ever get stronger. 

So yes, the teams aren't that great, but too much rugby. I'm not even bothered watching the Heineken cup this weekend. On so many different channels. Have no idea where it will show

Jan 13, 2023, 11:14

KC

I do not think that the story about Rassie is entirely fair.   The problems actually started when Meyer was coach.    He did the minimum when it came to bringing in new players into the squad preferring to use players - even those who retired for playing for the Springboks.   The only two changes he made was caused by injuries and substandard performances of some players,   That saw basically five new players brought in by Meyer - namely Willie le Roux, Pollard, Vermeulen and De Jager,   Only Vermeulen and Le Roux was really regulars in playing  in tests -  the other players were in and out of the Springbok team regularly..   

In the case of three players he was forced to bring in through injury and Fourie being too fat and useless at 13.   Those were  De Allende and Kriel - by the start of the WC they had played together in matches 3 times and there was also Du Toit - who played  one match in the WC series because Alberts was injured.

The fact is Pollard never played while Coetzee was coaching - De Allende played in some matches - but Kriel played in virtually no matches.   Le Roux never played while Coetzee was coach.    

So even though  on paper there were players coming from the Meyer era - the fact is that when Erasmus took over from Coetzee it was effectively necessary to rebuild the team totally and get the spirit of even players like Pollard and Le Roux improved to make them useful players again.     

        

    

Jan 13, 2023, 11:27

l'Grande Merde

You know zero about rugby.    Your description of what Erasmus did is total BS.    For the first time in many years we saw proper attacking rugby played playing 15 man rugby.   The backline itself scored more tries under Erasmus than the full teams scored when Meyer was coach.  Defense were miles better than it was under Meyer and Coetzee.

Breakdown ball protection and recovery improved by a massive margin and turnovers became more regular than it was in the past.   The Springboks won the WC through clever coaching and the fact is that your brain is malfunctioning.   The Springboks record in 2019 was 11 matches played - one match lost and one draw.   They not only won the WC - they also won the Rugby Champions Cup.- the first time ever since the Tri-Nations started to achieve that.    So if you cannot see the difference the shit is flooding your eyes totally.


 

Jan 13, 2023, 22:25

I think so not sure, but the 2007 Squad Under Jake also won the Rugby Champs and WC ?...we all know what happened in 2019 and how good it was Mike....but right now we have slipped and things Like ball protection, Turnovers, Defence and Attack is not what it was in 2019....Surely you can see that by Watching Video and keeping up to date with latest team stats/ Rankings? Surely Meyer can't be blamed for what is happening now under R&N....his Term is long Finished already.

Jan 13, 2023, 23:34

2019 was a year of ugly rugby by the Boks. Did you know that the 2015 Boks out produced the 2019 Boks in every statistical category in just 4 games? The 3 RC games almost eclipsed the entirety of the 2019 season. Food for thought, this was before the trends changed in the game for more loose defending. The 2019 Bok's ranked poorly for handling errors and turnovers conceded, especially in the WC. 2019 hinged entirely on the win over a Wallaby side who was the worst in 45 years, and the final against England. Two games. Two very good match ups. You are a fool Michael. You keep resisting the truth. The Boks have never been good under Erasputin. No team has ever shown any good change in fortune because of him alone. Your best answers seem to be on a Currie Cup, which is about where he belongs. The Tin Cup. Even then, it was all hinged on good coaching by the Cheetahs. He didn't stick around long enough to asphyxiate their good brand of rugby. Erasputin has benefited greatly from the players Meyer left behind: Pollard, Jantjies, Malherbe, PTSD, Kolisi, Thor, Eben, Lood, Kriel, Willie, Whiteley. Those are some of the 37 players Meyer unearthed in his 4 seasons. Whiteley's injuries ruined his test career, but in 2018 he was the best defensive Bok by a good margin. Consider the likes of Marx, De Klerk, Mbonambi, Am, Mostert who were unearthed by Coetzee and it's easy to see that the Boks have stagnated under Erasputin. His entire core is largely of Meyer's reign. Mr Clever, do try and live up to your name. 

Jan 14, 2023, 01:12

Doos XL you are speaking utter horse shit as per usual

Not that I read past your first sentence or so

It’s the usual utter crap

Coetzee bwhaaaaaa

Jake bwhaaaahaaaa

Jan 14, 2023, 01:33

What the hell is ugly rugby?   You refer to shit in claiming the 2019 team was based on what Meyer produced.    Meyer produced bugger-all.  He played ping-pong with players and nearly destroyed the career of Pollard.   In and out of the team regularly.   Du Toit played 1 match under Meyer out of position after Alberts hours before the match announced to be unfit to play.   Whiteley was never selected by Meyer and was never in the Erasmus teams.

You know one thing  - you talk shit all the time.   Meyer was the worst coach SA ever had - on par with Coetzee and other idiots.   After given a massive amount of money Meyer concocted a team of failures and Stade was near to being demoted to play second league rugby.   What Meyer did for SA Rugby was on par to what he did when nearly destroying Stade Francais as a rugby club.   He spent money on duds like Morne Steyn, Alberts and a string  of other failures - all of whom was sent packing together with Meyer.   He was so poor as a coach that he left all rugby coaching - nobody would employ him as a coach - and is now a book-keeping clerk.

You still lie about Erasmus's coaching career - a story which was totally proved to be BS anyway.   Rassie coached the Cheetahs for 2 years - during which the team beat the Meyer coached Bulls - and then went to WP after his contract with the Cheetahs expired.   He then became the Head Coach serving for two years and then was appointed as Director of Rugby of Western Province and in 2012 as Director of SA Rugby.   It was supposed to be a partnership position - but Meyer was total amateur and did not even know how to deal the comprehensive rugby evaluation system indicating the activities of all players when on the field of play.   In fact Meyer ignored the system totally.    Meyer in fact was so bad that he selected a 31 man WC squad of which 8 players were unplayable on test level.   The 8 ws so bad they played one starting match or never again as starting players in the WC.   .                                          

Jan 14, 2023, 01:58

Manpower


The Springboks won the 2004 Tri-nations series after NZ, SA and Australia each won 2 tests and the series winner was based on point-difference,   In 2005 SA came second on the log - in 2006 and 2007 was bottom of the log of the Tri-Nations Cup series,   Indeed 2007 was a horrible year for the SA team coached by White - they even lost 33-6 against the AB's after in 2006 losing 52-0 against the Aussies.    So you were wrong about the 2007  - Tri-Nations series,   Fact is White came near to being fired by SA Rugby after a disastrous 2006 and the only thing that saved him was the fact that the WC was in 2007.

White was the only rugby coach ever to be effectively fired after winning the WC trophy.  There was a reason for that.   White was very unpopular with the smaller unions - but he would have been retained as coach bar for the motion not to renew his contract being supported by the Bulls and the Cheetahs.  Reason was the Bulls and Cheetahs wanted Meyer as coach.   The Sharks and Western Prince voted against Meyer's appointment and the effort by the Bulls and Cheetahs failed as a result.   Although De Villiers was not a coach's arsehole - or perhaps he was - Meyer was any time as bad as De Villiers as a coach on international level.      

Jan 14, 2023, 02:25

Pollard has never reached the level he was at under Meyer since. I see how the orks get worked up. The truth hurts, like rubbing salt into a wound. No matter what drivel cascades down your crooked face, Meyer and Jake both outclass each and every thing that Erasputin has ever tried to pass himself off as. I have an abundance of facts that you can never lie away, and I have openly challenged you on any game, player, or facet of the game. I see what Erasputing really is... he was supposed to be the anti-Jake/Meyer. But, the tragedy is that he was everything the pseudo-fans claimed to hate, and those they hated were everything they claimed to have wanted. Game over Mr Clever. I hope the spectacle was worth the loss of whatever credibility you had left. 

Jan 14, 2023, 09:50

Imagine being stupid enough to believe a coach improves the ability of a player post his formative years

Jan 14, 2023, 10:35

So Pollard never reached the level he reached under Meyer.     Meyer used him four times in 2014 and then he dropped out of sight and Lambie was mostly used with Pollard on the bench.   That went on till the Japan Disaster in 2015    After that disaster Pollard for the rest of the tournament played at flyhalf - but he was not a house on fire against stronger teams.   How the hell was he better under Meyer than under Erasmus?    He was 10 times a better player in 2019 than he was in 2014 and 2015. 

This is why you cannot ever be taken seriously as a member of this site.   In your case shit reigns supreme.               

Jan 15, 2023, 23:57

In the new today. There is a rumour that Rassie may stay on after the World Cup. I’m not sure if I like the idea. Watching the games this year and towards the end of last year was painful. 

Do we have to endure another 4 years if we are building towards the World Cup?

I would say the boks must reach the final, minimum if not with the bloody thing. 

As I said before. There’s no easy matches in pool A or B. 

I can maybe see us beat Ireland. NZ always have been 50/50, so not sure if we’ll get past them. Australia is our bogey team and we also drop a game against them. England, don’t know which team will show up and then either France or who ever in the final. 

I would definitely not shed a tear if we get knocked in quarters for Rassie, 

Jan 16, 2023, 00:12

Erasmus is 1:2 in World Cups. The last time we played Australia we were toothless, and Lambie blew the one shot we had by mistiming his run off a Jean pass. The defining moment of his senior career. Nienaber sorted the Snor defence, but cutting edge in our last golden era was poor. As Eddie Jones stated: Morné played flat, but there was no movement around him. A hallmark of Erasputin ball. This is likely to be one of the hardest schedules we've had. Unless of course France, Ireland, New Zealand et al have a mare, which is rather unlikely. 

Jan 16, 2023, 03:46

What is 1:2 in WC Rugby?     Youa re talking total shot again - and that is a fact.    He was involved in only 1 WC and that one was won by the Springboks.   In that series the Springboks played  real 15 man rugby and in the end beat England by 20 points - the second largest margin in RWC series.

The difference was in the 2007 WC the Springboks never played against the AB's and the Ausies - both of which teams would have destroyed the bumbling Springboks - especially bearing in mind the disastrous record of the Springboks in 2006 and 2007 in the Tri-Nartions.

You lied about what happened in the coaching appointment of De Villiers to succeed White.   The real problem was that the Bulls and Cheetahs caused the smaller unions in wanting to get rid of White and replace him by Meyer,    Meyer was nt a CC winner for two years running and the WP and Sharks representatives knew he was BS and refused to support his appointment.  That was the reason why Meyer was NOT appointed in 2008.   They probably was right - Meyer in the end was a disaster for Springbok rugby equal to De Villiers and Coetzee as coaches.  

         

          

Jan 16, 2023, 03:50

KC

If you think the matches in 2022 was painful to watch I assume you did not watch the matches played under White in 2006 and 2007 - as well as Meyer  in 2014 and 2015, as well as the Springboks in 2016 and 2017.   Those were all painful to watch.       

Jan 16, 2023, 09:18

Erasmus coached the Boks in 2011. He is 1 out of 2 in WCs. 

 
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