Dream team of the year

Forum » Rugby » Dream team of the year

Nov 21, 2022, 00:19

Marx, de Allende and Am make the side

Nov 21, 2022, 00:32

That's very funny. :D

Nov 21, 2022, 00:37

About as funny as your rugby takes

Nov 21, 2022, 00:38

Nov 21, 2022, 00:55

Dud Allende gets in but Etzebeth doesn’t….you can’t be serious. Give us the  link Dave

Nov 21, 2022, 01:05

rugbypass
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/ireland-dominate-with-four-selections-while-france-secure-just-two-in-world-xv/

Nov 21, 2022, 01:15

Agreed Eben should be in they have Beigne and Whitelock at lock

Saw it on Facebook

Nov 21, 2022, 01:17

Etzebeth & Savea ................... ??

Nov 21, 2022, 01:25

They have Alldritt at 8 - pretty handy player

Nov 21, 2022, 16:24

15. Freddie Steward (England), 14. Will Jordan (New Zealand), 13. Lukhanyo Am (South Africa), 12. Damian de Allende (South Africa), 11. Marika Koroibete (Australia), 10. Johnny Sexton (Ireland), 9. Antoine Dupont (France), 1. Ellis Genge (England) 2. Malcolm Marx (South Africa) 3. Tadhg Furlong (Ireland) 4. Tadhg Beirne (Ireland) 5. Sam Whitelock (New Zealand) 6. Pablo Matera (Argentina) 7. Josh van der Flier (Ireland) 8. Gregory Alldritt (France).


…..


With van der Flier as player of the year. 


As with most of these exercises there is a huge political component that result in funny contradictions eg 2 Bok backs are picked and one forward. Are our backs relatively better than our forwards.


And because of Ireland’s win over NZ they had to have Player of the Year. Also the Bargies had to have one rep …so Matera. But would anybody pick Matera, van der Flier and Aldritt as their three loosies?


Then there are positions where there isn’t outstanding talent at the moment…eg 12, so they pick the best known brand names. So they pick Dud.


There is no value in this process….a political exercise.

Nov 21, 2022, 16:50

And because of Ireland’s win over NZ they had to have Player of the Year.

What's that got to do with getting player of the year?

Nov 21, 2022, 16:54

Van Der Vlier is the world player the year, so that spot goes to him automatically. Savea has been a machine, so don't understand why he wasn't selected. 

Although, France is number 2, so only would make sense to have some French players. 

I still don't rate Dud, yes, he is good at fracturing it up and play the battering ram, but he can't pass beyond 1 meter. Also that he continues to kick the ball away on so many occasions. 

Nov 21, 2022, 17:07

Bullshit they pick the sides based on form, it has fuck all to do with politics or brand names

But more than anything regardless of the merits of the side, what it does do is confirm how rugby ignorant you guys are

If DA was as useless as you make him out to be then his name would not even make the long list let alone the short list

Same applies to your take on PSDT as a player

All these world selections serve to reinforce my takes on players and serve to make a mockery of yours

That’s a fact Moz - no rugby panel would entertain a poor player receiving a prestigious award or selection.

There is also something you keep missing. The nature of modern rugby makes it virtually impossible for a test centre to stand out like they did years ago. It’s why virtually every test side today keeps changing their centres except the Boks. The test centres out there are not poor as you state they are a reflection of how tough it is to consistently shine.

DA is so effective at giving the Boks go forward and that’s what sets him apart. Other 12’s don’t have his physicality to do the same. They have to rely on being more creative which hardly ever materialises given the nature of modern defensive structures

You learn to accept this reality and only then will you be able to appreciate the merits of DA

Instead you lot still expect modern centres to jink their way through defences. Never going to happen

Nov 21, 2022, 18:09

Bullshit they pick the sides based on form, it has fuck all to do with politics or brand names

The lists are by all means political. They are written in order to avoid hurting unions'feelings. They usually reflect the unions'importance, their order in the hierarchy of the rugby world.

It is a different kind of politics than SA rugby supporters as SA rugby politics are mainly based on race (white players uber alles, quota players are named because of a non existing quota policy)

Nevertheless, the lists are based on politics and inclusion of players are determined by the union's weight.

The french player who plays for IT as a back should have made the list over the EN if based on form and contribution to results of the team.

He did not as IT has no weight as a union to the opposite of the EN union. List makers can not afford neglecting certain unions.

Nov 21, 2022, 18:09

It's essentially a pageant to appease the casuals. A popularity contest. Nothing more. Statistically, our top 5 players for production didn't make this team. 

Nov 21, 2022, 18:09

You are right about modern rugby. It is so much harder to break tackles or get over the advantage line that the ball either has to be kicked over head or hope for a counter attack. Only big centres can give you that go forward. They don't stand up like they use. 

Wonder how Mike Tindell, Aaron Mauger, Matt Gitaue and the likes would do today? 

That is probably why Eng can never settle on a 12, but they have Owen Farrell who has been their only consistent selection in the midfield, but he is not that direct as Damian. 

The last time SA used a playmaker at 12 was probably Hennie Le Roux. Jean was up there, but shifted to becoming a battering ram towards the end. 

Frans Steyn could cut inside and get over the advantage line way back when. 

Nov 21, 2022, 18:12

According to normal practice World Rugby appointed 8 experts to choose he Player of the Year and Team of the Year.    So I am delighted to see that selection is a political proce3ss where rugby performances are not an issue -  that kind of idiocy is extremely funny so thank you for the laughter,      

Nov 21, 2022, 18:12

According to normal practice World Rugby appointed 8 experts to choose he Player of the Year and Team of the Year.    So I am delighted to see that selection is a political proce3ss where rugby performances are not an issue -  that kind of idiocy is extremely funny so thank you for the laughter,      

Nov 21, 2022, 18:29

You learn to accept this reality

no rugby panel would entertain a poor player receiving a prestigious award or selection.

What a comment. All these lists are figments of imagination. They are an exercice of fantasy. They are even worse than the usual crap from supporters who enjoy rotating names in a list without ever bothering to associate a stub of a game plan.

Those lists represent no team of players who  would ever play together. They do not exist. And they have no chance to ever exist. At least, in the NBA, there are all star games which gives hints on how dream teams could play.

So from this, people who accept see no value in the said lists, the awards associated etc

It is for the show, a way to increase business, a trade policy byproduct. 

Other than that, there is no reality to be associated.

The nature of modern rugby

SA rugby are outside modern rugby. In fact, their evolution has been marked by following an opposite trend than the one that led to modern rugby. While other unions have been looking at expanding the skillsets of theirs players, the tasks each of them is in charge, SA rugby had to reduce everything in order to keep the face. A SA rugby player looks competitive relatively to other union players only because he is restricted to fewer tasks. He is required to do much less than his counterpart.

Any contribution from a SA rugby player is placed out of context when related to other union teams. SA rugby is out of modern rugby considerations. Theirs players can not fit in any other team.

No union would do with the SA pair of centres if they had the option to. They simply do not fit in, they could not blend.




Nov 21, 2022, 18:40

According to normal practice World Rugby appointed 8 experts to choose he Player of the Year and Team of the Year.    So I am delighted to see that selection is a political proce3ss where rugby performances are not an issue -  that kind of idiocy is extremely funny so thank you for the laughter,    

Simple mindedness is not idiocy. That is a confusion often made by superior minded people who enjoy circonvulions.

Experts' knowledge is only worth the test of knowledge. That is what makes the difference between an expert and a non expert.

Anyone can list names of players. Listing names makes no one an expert in rugby (or anything else by the way)

These teams have no vocation to ever play. There is no test to knowledge. A list by a socalled expert has no more value than a team from a non expert. There is no way to part one way from another, not even from authority as both sides would gain authority by naming lists of names that would never play as a team.

On the other hand, one thing that is tested: the reception of the list by the fans, supporters, union members etc and how pleasurable it is for them. That is what is tested.


It seems these days that superior minded people are no longer aware of the circonvultions they keep operating. They have lost touch. They float in a different dimension. They could not even make liars as they have lost consciousness of them lying.

They are convinced that the power of a word is to be found in the group that supports it. A word is as strong as the group that spreads it.

Nov 21, 2022, 18:49

Nope it’s about vision….seeing where the play is going….running a line at pace.


Here’s Ioane’s stats on Saturday….and Dud’s:


R IoaneC027980210











D AllendeC066120200

Nov 21, 2022, 18:51

de Allende is not a 13 hello

Nov 21, 2022, 18:53

Hello….is it me you’re looking for?

 

13Damian de Allende, C 
12Andre Esterhuizen, C

Nov 21, 2022, 18:57

Why did Ioane put NZ on top in the first half…..because he could see the play, hit his lines at speed, ran at the gaps rather than the man.

Sure the channels are tighter, but game after game we see 12 cutting the line and getting try assists. Last time Dud got a try assist is hard to remember.

Nov 21, 2022, 19:01

Bullshit do we see 12’s cutting the line with try assists that’s rubbish

de Allende is not a finisher who has the speed to operate like Ioane, comparing them is laughable

Nov 21, 2022, 19:18

I disagree that the lines are tighter in modern rugby. In fact, it's much more open. The problem is that with defences pushed back post-ELVs, they have more time to see play unfold. That's why the modern game began to use more layers, screens, pods. Movement behind the anterior layer. In pre-ELV rugby, the defence arrived upon the attackers earlier, which meant clever running lines were more devastating in a more linear attack. The Boks, under Erasmus have never found the right balance, and our players don't seem to be able to see the opportunities. A good inside centre is still highly effective, as we have seen. This is an important link between the first receiver units and the outer units. Sometimes we see 12 or 15 as a lone man between two four man pods. However, more often as a link between 10 and his pod screen. His decision to run, or pass, it sets the tone for the rest of the phase play. Look how wonderfully Kerevi gets the entire Wallaby team going forward with front foot ball and how he can distribute to keep the attack alive. You don't see the Boks play like that. Even our offloads, they are not very effective. How often have we seen our players break the line, and offload in contact, and we see the support runner burst through the line? It seems to go sideways. Stop, reset, pass, run, stop, reset... rinse and repeat. Damian is not dynamic enough to lift the team. He doesn't have the decision making ability to be a playmaker, a facilitator, a generator of momentum and opportunity. 

Nov 21, 2022, 20:05

Is it really a Competent Rugby Panel that gets to pick these Dream teams?

Nov 21, 2022, 20:14

It’s much more open - fuck me what a load of utter shit

What fucking rugby do you watch it’s certainly not the same as the rest of us

More space in modern rugby and Faf is not test standard

Rugby is not your game - give it up man

Nov 21, 2022, 20:24

Owen Farrell may play 12 but he’s not a Centre. 

Nov 21, 2022, 20:26

Saffex, there's a reason why the Aussies were being penalised for obstruction in the pre-ELV era when using box formations and multi-layered attacks, there wasn't enough time and space for them to develop. You are well behind the times. That was the entire point of the ELVs, to give the attackers more space and time. This was such the case that teams stopped using complex plays off the back of scrums when 8 could simply run into space. I have to ask, do some of you even watch rugby, or just live off of articles and YouTube videos? :D

Nov 21, 2022, 20:51

So Mozart and l'Grande Merde know more about rugby than experts with many years of international rugby do and they have a greater insight in Rugby than anybody else in the world.   Blaas my Siel.   Their impertinence is beyond imagination.     

Nov 21, 2022, 20:56

Imagine entering into a discussion with no more than, "Because they (unspecified individuals) say so!", punctuated by indignant foot stamping. It isn't quite beyond imagination, but it is rather funny! 

Nov 21, 2022, 22:55

Your take on screens, pods etc is the biggest load of shit I have read in ages, especially the shit about Kerevi igniting Oz

It’s a fact that in the modern game with tight defensive structures that space is rare and the very reason we see little effect from structured back line play. It’s the very reason we don’t see modern day Gerber’s or BOD’s. Being a centre is a tough gig, tougher than ever to make a consistent impression

The decoy and taking it back and around is the familiar set up used by sides to try playing it wide

Nov 21, 2022, 23:00

The Gerber's ran through acres of space. You cannot compare the two eras. You literally don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about. It's garbled, but mostly it seems to be the product of trying to fabricate a defence for your pet players. 

Nov 21, 2022, 23:37

Exactly you twit, Gerber had space

And you think you know what you are talking about do you?

Nov 22, 2022, 01:02

Do you have a fetish for humiliation? I hope you're not getting off from these exchanges! Right now you are taking an 80s icon and conflating that into a single era with the professional era in comparison to the ELV era. Have you been drinking? Rugby only became professional shortly after the 1995 RWC. The game changed a lot between 1996 and 1999. Australia were at the forefront of advancements on defensive systems and attacking systems to counter them. It reached its speed from 00 to 07. We had tremendous difficulty adapting to those defensive systems, so we kicked the ball away. Nobody played like we do now back in 2007 and further back, it'd have been suicide. You're clearly lacking fundamentals here, so I don't really know how I can expect anything more wholesome from you. Just now shouting and crying. So be it. :D

Nov 22, 2022, 02:04

You miss the point whoosh

Nov 22, 2022, 04:46

Kerevi finds space, beats defenders and creates tries. We can’t necessarily expect to find Kerevi, but we can expect our 12 not to die with the ball every time he gets it.

That offload the Somerset West kid playing lock for England produced against the ABs was better than anything we have seen from Dud in 12 years. There’s a scary fact!

Nov 22, 2022, 06:04

Mozart sees things in matches that do not exist and also see nothing that really exist.  That makes him a true expert n rugby strategy and implementation.    That is why he thinks he is a better evaluator of player performances than rugby experts - in other words he actually is a prejudiced farce when it comes to player evaluation and a BSter supremo.             

Nov 22, 2022, 14:09

So Mozart and l'Grande Merde know more about rugby than experts with many years of international rugby do and they have a greater insight in Rugby than anybody else in the world. 


It is not about knowing more. It is about knowing. Enough to measure the vanity of the exercize.

And this does not take much.

The world rugby award ceremony is a promotional event: the crop of the world rugby community gathers to celebrate and honour themselves. It sheds light on the current state in power station for each. It does not go further.

The list is distinguished from other lists by the decorum of the ceremony. That is what makes it distinct from any other list that sets the same goal.

People believe what they want to believe. They grant value as they desire.

The list remains the byproduct of a promotional event and as such, has no other value.

Nov 22, 2022, 14:19

Professional rugby still is a confidential sport. Yet it has enough media outlets to provide a sample of this bizarre taste for fantasy rugby.

Each week, including during test series, outlets name their team of the week based on the games.

Lists usually are distinct. Being distincted is necessary in order to sell: people wont buy twice what they already have.

All the lists are established by experts. Sometimes, lists do not have even one name in common.
Yet this provides nothing to tell from one expert to another. Lists have no other value than entertaining and satisfying the taste for fantasy rugby teams.

Another example: a tournament is held in order to determine the best team (in rugby, this procedure is already plagued by the lack of competition density which often leads to a weak and a strong side in the table)
The tournament is run and a winner is determined.
Just to learn the next day that the best team in the tournament was not the winning one but a list of names that associate supposedly the best players over the tournament.

It is not about knowing more. It is unnecessary. It is about knowing.

 
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