France puts everything in perspective

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Feb 03, 2020, 01:29

For 60 minutes France dominated proceedings even more convincingly than the Boks did in the WC. Then true to form they then brought on some youngsters who made mistake after mistake and props who couldn’t scrum....so the English had a distant sniff.


But this is a poor English team. Farrell is not an effective center....Ford and Young’s are awful under pressure. The back row overrated. Even Itoje, who the Financial Times declared the best rugby player on the planet in their Saturday magazine, was toothless.


Face it Eddie’s best moments came under Jake. He did an awful job preparing England for the Boks......and once again today, his team came out flat.


France may grow after this win....they have some potent forwards and DuPont/Ntamack are the best young halfback pairing in the game.


 

Feb 03, 2020, 01:58

Eddies finest moment was beating the Boks in the 2015 World cup... Springsuchi....:D


Although I think the Eddie era has peaked with England. He never got the goldware, so things are on a downward spiral for Jones!. Watch this space!!!


Feb 03, 2020, 04:17

Again the  nonsensical statement to be expected from Mozart as to domination of the Springboks in the WC and the French yesterday,  

Lets break down the domination issue further on a factual basis:-

*    Scrumming - The Springboks, but for one scrum totally dominated the English - the French never did, 

*    Line outs- the French lost too many line-outs on own throw,   No domimation in that Department by the French in evidence.   The English driving mauls in fact were  more effective against the French than they were against the Springboks.

*    The major issue where the Springboks dominated the English backline was in defense,   The Springboks  totally dominated the English backline,   In the WC final the dominating role by players like Du Toit and De Allende was the total reason why the English backline malfunctioned in the WC - yesterday the French never achieved that level of dominance.

There are two reasons why the English lost yesterday, namely ball skills deficiency by especially frequent handling  errors by the English - especially by English backline players,  The English  consequently struggled to get good balls to their outside backs and when they did May scored two tries,   So like happened in the WC final their halfbacks and centers malfunctioned.    Fact is that Farrell is a problem - irrespective whether he plays at center or flyhalf. The other question is whether Farrell is a effective captain?   Looking at both the WC final and the game yesterday  I doubt it very much,

As to the second reason - sum it up in one word - NTAMACK.    This 20 year old has all the makings of a brilliant flyhalf that could be compared to Dan Carter,   Carter, whose test career started at the age of 21 - while Ntamack's career started slightly earlier at 20  - will be a star of the future in flyhalf play,   Watch out for that little genius in future,                          .         

                 

          

Feb 03, 2020, 06:49

Did an awful job preparing them for the Boks? England at the RWC aren't the same team as the one that played France. The saying you're only as good as your last match comes to mind, the match before they played the final was against the AB's, and we remember everyone's opinion on England after that one... 


Kinda weak trying to diminish the Boks win against them.

Feb 03, 2020, 07:09

 Posted by: sharkbok (10649 posts)

Feb 03, 2020, 01:58

Eddies finest moment was beating the Boks in the 2015 World cup... Springsuchi....

England never played the Boks  in the entire 2015, let alone in the 2015 RWC. 

 There are two reasons why the English lost yesterday, namely ball skills deficiency” 

They weren’t that deficient. The French were just so much better. France made way less mistakes and their support was so much better than the English. Even when the French scrums came under pressure in the second half. 

The French halfbacks were also on a different level to the England pair with Youngs throwing a stupid pass into no man’s land and into touch almost exactly like he did in the RWC final. The French scrummie managed to hold it together when their scrums came under pressure with the help of the no 8. 

 As to the second reason - sum it up in one word - NTAMACK.    

True. He is very good but rugby is in his DNA. His dad, Emile, also played close to 50 tests, I think, and I’m sure his uncle also played for France. I would not single him out as the sole best player, though. The MOM went to the no 8 but it could easily have gone to either the no 7, Ntamack or the scrummie as well. 

To me, however, one of the main reasons for the French victory was their defence. They tackled England out of the game and the England tries came from pieces of individual brilliance rather than team efforts. England struggled to get over the advantage line when they had the ball.

My thoughts during the game was this. I wonder, if Jones was so brilliant that he supposedly turned the Boks from palookas to RWC champs in 2007, why is that he couldn’t do the same with England in four years? “Will he still be the England coach by the end of the 2021 Six Nations?”, I wonder.  Time will tell. 

Feb 03, 2020, 07:46

Eddie was Japan's coach in the 2015 RWC.

Feb 03, 2020, 07:54

The French defense won the match....they pretty much did what the Boks did. It’s not that complicated as one of the commentators opined.

Interestingly the few chinks in the French armour came from broken play and the kick over the top May hunted down.....the Achilles heel of the rush defense.


I don’t think our WC win will launch a new era. The tactics were too narrow and too easily duplicated eg by France. But they weren’t well countered by the NH teams at the WC...even though the ABs provided a bit of a template.


We will need to do much more with the ball if we expect to stay on top.

Feb 03, 2020, 09:49

The topic was what you wrote above and my repose to that comparison where you were smoking something weird  in your statements.   

Scoring most tries of any nation in the WC and  having the least number scored against us sets a template, which  you chose to ignore,       ,  

Feb 03, 2020, 10:28

Well played France.

England were not on top of their game. I agree with Mozarts sentiments re Ford and Ferret.

But this win doesnt put anything into perspectve re RWC2019.

England were the best team in the tournament. They peaked and are now on their way down.

Feb 03, 2020, 11:01

“ Posted by: Shezza (2294 posts) Feb 03, 2020, 07:46

Eddie was Japan's coach in the 2015 RWC.”

Er, correct. My bad. Sorry SB.

Feb 03, 2020, 12:04

Yes Ceradyne, your bad. 

Feb 03, 2020, 13:19

I think the point of Mozart starting this thread was to downplay the Springboks in their performances in winning the World Cup and trying to diminish their achievement.   That is why his conclusion was more an attack on the Springboks than an analysis of what really happened in the game yesterday.   That point was taken up by Chezza when he wrote the following:-

 Kinda weak trying diminish the Boks win against them.

Feb 03, 2020, 16:31

“ Posted by: sharkbok (10653 posts) Feb 03, 2020, 12:04

Yes Ceradyne, your bad. ”

Sometimes some people’s response would be “Apology accepted but hey.....”

Feb 03, 2020, 17:07

It’s no mystery Wanker. It’s right in the headline. It doesn’t diminish our win....it simply puts it into perspective. Our win was a great accomplishment....winning the WC always is.

The question is now, what does it portend. Did we beat the world’s best on a decent day....so we can look forward to a period of dominance. I never thought so before Sunday.....and Sunday’s events just strengthen that view.

England played their big game against NZ, much like they played a big game Ireland last 6 Nations....after which they lost all their punch. France and the Boks took advantage of that vacuum.

Feb 03, 2020, 19:23

Boks would have beat England in the Semi.  

Feb 03, 2020, 20:10

Oh what rubbish, firstly England dominated NZ like no side has in a decade, we thrashed that same England side in WC final.

The England side that played France this weekend was different to the one that played in the final.

Eddie losses the plot at times as he did this weekend. No Watson on the wing no Daly at 15 instead wasted on the wing and then a toothless pack that had no Vinipolas and a pathetic lock pairing in lightweights Itoje and Ewels and no specialist 8. Playing Lawes at 6 was a joke. Not to forget losing Tuilagi early on.

It was an average England side the fans were not happy with and the result substantiated that

As for Itoje he is as average as they come - has always been and is by far the most hyped player in the game. He is not a lock.

Feb 03, 2020, 20:24

Watson was apparently injured and was not available to play on Saturday,    Billy Vunipola was also out with an injury and I think the selection of replacement players were not up to standard.   

So the French domination claimed by Mozart was even less in value than Mozart implied,  

Feb 03, 2020, 21:19

Ceradyne, not even CleverMike thinks Eddie Jones coached England in the prior world cup (2015).  Did the Springboks also win in 2015? :D  I am sorry but you just cant be forgiven for this...

Feb 03, 2020, 21:51

Mike I’m not stupid I know Watson etc were injured - that’s not my point my point is the England side that played France was different to the one that played NZ and the Boks in the W.C.

So the French put nothing into perspective

Feb 04, 2020, 01:50


‘Eddie losses the plot at times as he did this weekend.’.....and in the WC final. My point exactly. The Poms never showed.

Feb 04, 2020, 02:41

Nope Eddie had his selections right at the W.C. he did not against France

Feb 04, 2020, 03:04

Started off with an unproven statement of total ignorance an now said - It was all Jones's fault.

No it  was NOT - the English team  beat the AB's with a  top class display and then came up in the final against the Springboks.   The Springboks against the Welsh played a variation of their game plan  with the emphasis more on kicking which Erasmus said was a calculated  move and that was a major reason for their win. 

Jones obviously studied that game and worked out a play to neutralize the Springboks based  on that variation of the game plan.   In the warmup before the Final the Springboks NEVER passed the ball and  that would give any coach a feeling that he was correct om what he and his assistants came up with.   Fact is that Erasmus changed the emphasis of the game  a more ball in hand game with kicking moved from the scrummie to  flyhalf  in the majority of kicks,

The change would have caught out virtually every other coach  in world rugby,                          

Feb 04, 2020, 11:27

“ Posted by: sharkbok (10656 posts) Feb 03, 2020, 21:19

Ceradyne, not even CleverMike thinks Eddie Jones coached England in the prior world cup (2015). Did the Springboks also win in 2015? :D I am sorry but you just cant be forgiven for this...”

Jirre, but you know how to flog a dead horse, don’t you? I could turn this around and say that not even you could not have noticed that I was wrong and that I apologised. I am sorry but you cannot be forgiven for this...

Feb 04, 2020, 17:40

It is not a dead horse, you are alive and kicking and just don't want to stay down no matter how hard I kick you.

I saw your apology, but it was unfortunately not sufficient. Stay down...

Feb 04, 2020, 17:45

Master trolling in this thread.

Feb 04, 2020, 18:17

https://

www.facebook.com/163248997047496/posts

/2843966152309087/

 
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