Francois Steyn out of the

Forum » Rugby » Francois Steyn out of the

Mar 12, 2021, 15:00

After the WC Francois Steyn said he was finished as a test level player.   Before Erasmus picked him as a "bomb squad"   his career on test level came to an end in 2012 when he ahd serious weight problems.   However, Erasmus took him in hand  and his weight was a reasonable 110  kgs  don from 118 kgs in the period 2012 to 2015.  

Be it as it may - in the paper today the writer wrote about him in the "bomb squad"   Steyn is already 33 years old  and he is too old to feature in future Springbok teams.   Unlike Mozart who support experience selections without regard to actual acceptable performances - I believe  that player performances are affected by aging and in the end they become a liability rather than an asset in the team.   A typical example of deteriorated performances was Matfield - a serious flop in 2014 and 2015.

The aging factor does not only apply to rugby players only - it applies in most codes of sport.  There are exceptions - but they are rare.   A while ago I wrote that the era when Federer, Nadal and Djokovic  controlled is coming to an end nd some people wanted to have a fit about my comments on site,    Nadal and Djokovic did not make the finals in the prestigious  end of year tournament and Nadal's record since that Championship was poor.  Djokovic lost matches which he would never have lost - but he redeemed  himself by winning the Aussie Open.   

Federer after a year absent  from tennis  because of two knee operations tried to start a comeback to professional tennis  in tournament in Qatar and Dubai.    In the Qatar tournament he was disgraced by two players who rarely won anything of note for years and complaining about aches and pains he suspended  playing in Dubai next week and said he wants to go back into training before attempting another comeback in May or June.   Sad - but I think his professional career is at its end,

The moral of the story is that players try to be active in sport wat past their sell-by date and in the process they damage their reputation. ,  .             

   

Mar 12, 2021, 17:34

clevermike on Ruckers Forum

clevermike

Hall Of Fame

Federer after a year absent  from cricket because of two knee operations tried to start a comeback to professional tennis  in tournament in Qatar and Dubai.  

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Federer plays Cricket as well? 

Mar 12, 2021, 20:17

Classic.

Mike you talk so much shit. Even your shit is shit.

Mar 12, 2021, 20:27

 

Mar 12, 2021, 20:27

Oops, sorry.

Mar 12, 2021, 21:30

Ou Mike, the only trouble about your comment on Nadal, Federer and Djokovic being done, is you made it 6 years ago.....and two of the three defending champions at the Majors are the men you said were done six  years ago.


But in your case age does seem to be eroding the edifice. Perhaps you might respond by not taking on battles you are going to lose.

Mar 13, 2021, 00:22

It is time for Ou Maaik to retire from blogging. :D 
He is past his best, and ruining the little reputation he had before. 

Mar 13, 2021, 03:33

A bit harsh, Ou Mike still makes occasional sense on the Trumpet. But like many old codgers his emotions simply swamp his reason much of the time,

Mar 13, 2021, 21:30

Federer's absence from cricket allowed him to make a comeback in tennis. Perfectly logical guys, come on.

Mar 14, 2021, 18:36

Mozart

I am sorry - Mozart -  but you insistence on selection of players way past their sell-by date on the basis of reputation without an performance requirement is  simply  BS,

.

Mar 15, 2021, 18:14

Lee Westwood at 47 beats off all but one of the young guns to finish second at the Players. And he has a nice looking chick on his bag vs an over weight balding man in short pants. 

Your predilection for choosing every young flop is hilarious....witness the implosion of Proteas cricket since Smith and Kallis retired as you so desperately wanted.

Mar 15, 2021, 20:56

I am not supporting any young flop - my support of young and old depends on proven performance, while you support the  selection of non-performing old flops.   Huge difference/   Besides that you supported in the past the failed  coaches like Meyer and Coetzee - while atatcjing the best coach in world rugby continuously.    

Mar 15, 2021, 23:51

How can we tell if he’s the best coach....he keeps ducking the opposition,

Mar 16, 2021, 01:56

There is no evidence of Josè Erasmus coaching. All we know is his teams are amongst the worst attacking teams throughout his entire career, and that Nienaber can solidify a defence. That's it. Best in the world? At what? Where, when and how? Normal people wouldn't be putting him on a pedestal. 

Mar 16, 2021, 02:09

The Springboks are on a pedestal as World Champions, as well as still being ranked 1st in the IRB rankings. 
It does not get much better than that folks...


Starting from 6th in the world after inheriting the Coetzee shambles, Rassie won the 4 Nations, and then won the world cup, and still remain 1st in the world. 

And Rassie is not a good coach...

Mar 16, 2021, 08:47

Rassie beat the worst Wallaby side in 45 years, drew with the most vulnerable All Black side since 1998 to win an abbreviated RC. Perspective.

World Cup? We were fortunate to face NZ in the group stage, or we'd have been sent home. A Welsh side ravaged by injuries, and our best match up of all NH teams in the final. Quite fortunate.

So where is the Rassie magic? Aside from defence and kicking, where is this high level coaching? And to make matters worse, Coetzee's 2017 still stands as better than 2018. The only difference between the two is Nienaber, and that Coetzee can increase attacking output. That's the reality of the situation. There is no evidence of Erasmus coaching to a high level at any point in his entire coaching career. Ende. 

Mar 16, 2021, 09:34

It's hard to choose which is the closest to absolute zero . . . Ou Maaik's knowledge of cricket, Omlett's knowledge of rugby or Moffie's knowledge of Grand Tour cycling . . . but if Omlett honestly thinks that England/Samoa/Tonga/USA/Fiji/Argentina/England is harder than NZ/Italy/Namibia/Canada/Japan/Wales/England then Omlett is the closest.

Mar 16, 2021, 15:19

Rooi it’s not even close

Omelette’s rugby ignorance stands head and shoulders above all

The most pathetic, worthless and most ignorant SA rugby supporter I have ever come across

To call him a supporter is an insult

Mar 16, 2021, 15:20

Shark, Rassie took us from 7th to 1st not 6th

Mar 16, 2021, 15:31

Actually I have your answer Rooipeepie.....your knowledge of numbers is clearly the closest to absolute zero....whereas your obsession with the male member is closest to 100.

Mar 16, 2021, 15:35

Erasmus apologists keep quoting Erasmus’ schedule vs  Jake’s schedule. What they don’t quote is that Jake’s record was 100% victories....Erasmus was at 86%.

It amounts to this, it matters little that we played NZ in 2019 when we lost to them. Just a little lesson in logic.

Mar 16, 2021, 16:55

White was bloody lucky - before the WC the AB's in the three nations tournament beat the  Springboks 33-6 and the Wallabies beat them too.   So he was lucky they were not up against those two teams in the WC.   His 100%  record in the WC means zilch - what was discussed was what happened in the two finals.   

The 2007 final was a team fumbling along with the opposition being even worse by giving away penalties that were converted.  Ball skills were poor, ball protection at breakdowns virtually non-existent. and defense was average  and not very efficient.    Scrumming was not strong enough to make any impression on the English scrum

The 2019 final was a perfect game of rugby played by a well-oiled Springbok machine.    The only player whose ball skills let the team down was Le Roux.    For the rest the English team was over-powered totally up front  and their backline neutralized by Du Toit and De Allende.    A 100% better effort than the Springboks  in the 2007 final/       .     

      

Mar 16, 2021, 17:51

Irrespective if White was lucky or not he brought home the WORLD RUGBY CUP.

What have you "White Bashers" brought home.

Give credit where it is due.

Same goes for Erasmus.


Mar 16, 2021, 17:59

AJH, the White bashing is in reaction to the Rassie bashing...and vice-versa...:angel:...time loop...

Mar 16, 2021, 18:24

But Jake never lost.....the well oil machine had some grit in the engine against NZ. 

And then we have the Erasmus chicken run. Jake will  compete anywhere any  time he is given a chance. Erasmus schemes and ducks and dives.....trying to parlay  a win against the absent Poms into a 4 year record. 

Springbok rugby never dropped lower than last year’s RC....pure cowardice.

Mar 16, 2021, 19:48

Jake never played NZ..or Wales in a RWC...he played an over-the-hill Pom side...twice...

"Springbok rugby never dropped lower than last year’s RC....pure cowardice."

That's horse manure and a cowardly low blow...no context...and don't use the Argie analogy...our players were in a way different situation during lockdown...rugby is about a level playing field ...and protecting your brand...Argie had all to gain and nothing to lose...we are still world No.1...right choice...you don't p!ss that away on a whim.

Mar 16, 2021, 21:39

No rugby is about competing....sometimes conditions favor you, sometimes they don’t. Competing  against our RC competitors last year was way less of a level  playing field issue, than playing the Lions in GB, which apparently is being considered.

I guess the money is just too hard to ignore.

And yes the Bargies demonstrated our cowering back home was unnecessary and shameful. 

Mar 16, 2021, 21:51

"Competing  against our RC competitors last year was way less of a level  playing field issue, than playing the Lions in GB, which apparently is being considered."

No it's not nearly the same thing. We had a hard lockdown here. The teams weren't even allowed to train together for most of the year, nevermind playing...NZ and Aus only had hard lockdown for a couple of months...you can't go play the Allblacks without having played/trained any rugby for months on end. We were only allowed out of the house for a hour or two per day...for months!..most of the rugby players had to try and keep fit by themselves and indoors to boot...this isn't as simple as you think.

Rugby was shut down totally for more than 6 months.

Mar 16, 2021, 22:00

"And yes the Bargies demonstrated our cowering back home was unnecessary and shameful. "

Your lack of discernment is not what I would have expected of a mathematician, a scholar and statistician...so you are either deliberately ignoring some of the facts or you have some other agenda...

Mar 16, 2021, 22:40

Good old Jake only played England in his WC and no other significant side

Must easily be the easiest WC victory in history

What the Argentinians showed us was that they were not match fit and that adrenaline only took them past the first game against NZ and then failing miserably thereafter confirming emphatically that SA rugby got it 100% right in not playing in the RC

Mar 16, 2021, 23:29

Draad you are spot on with all your takes here

Moz is nicking every ball to slips

Mar 16, 2021, 23:52

Being the WorldChamps and IRB rankings leader at the same time is something no other Bok coach has done. Other than the All Blacks, has any team done this? 


Being IRB rankings leader, and World Cup champs at the same time is a testament to long term form and peaking for the world cup. 

A world cup is a one-off tournament where draws, injuries and form on the day are big factors. Ranking number 1 in the IRB rankings is a more consistent way of being confirmed as the best.

Mar 17, 2021, 05:31

No I don’t believe so....we were at a disadvantage to be sure, but the chances of us winning the RC were greater than the chance of our still rusty team, which hasn’t played since the WC,  beating the Lions in the UK.

So if we follow that logic, protecting the brand when the odds don’t favor us....we shouldn’t even entertain that idea.

But winning isn’t everything....competing is the holy grail. The spirit  of competition that has Verstappen competing with Hamilton even though he has a vastly inferior car. There was glory in a RC win....and no shame in a loss. Likewise if we play the Lions in the UK.


What was needed in the depths of Covid was to see our sportsmen out there, keeping the games alive..., providing entertainment to the huddled masses.


Instead we had a cowardly cop out, sadly underlined by the Bargies gutsy showing.....and it was 100% pure Erasmus. The Bok brand has not been protected, it has been diminished and it will take a long time to get back to where we were.

Mar 17, 2021, 06:39

It wasn't about being disadvantaged...we always are in the 4N due to travel, it was being totally unprepared in all facets...players have been sitting at home since March...for the Lions Tour, we will have a couple domestic competitions under the belt...and the tour will bind the team. We will at least have proper preparation vs absolutely nothing...a world of difference.. again, I can't understand why you can't grasp the difference. 

Shark, when you win the RWC, you are automatically ranked 1st...

Mar 17, 2021, 09:46

Moz this is the point you are missing

‘...rugby is about a level playing field ...and protecting your brand...Argie had all to gain and nothing to lose...we are still world No.1...right choice...you don't p!ss that away on a whim’

Along with the fact that Argentina proved us right. One win on a high against NZ and then a complete flop, confirming how under prepared and match unfit they were

At the highest level you don’t just compete for the sake of competing, that is school level stuff. Getting to number 1 took a huge amount of work - you don’t just piss that away you protect that at all costs.

A heavy weight world champ does not proceed with a fight if he picks up an injury before that fight

Mar 17, 2021, 15:26

I totally disagree of course....the way you reason Federer should never play the French, Nadal should never play Wimbledon. You only play when your chances of winning aren’t compromised.

Our teams played 7 Super matches, many of our guys had played in Europe. Yes NZ played a bit more...but the Bargies didn’t. With an early departure to Oz we could have been at 95%, improving as the tournament went on.

This wasn’t a case of not having a chance it was a case of not wanting to take a chance.



Mar 17, 2021, 16:15

"Our teams played 7 Super matches"

Our teams played 6 matches over 7 rounds, but most of those matches were played at the same time as the 2020 RC, not before.

The Tri-Nations kicked off on October 31st last year. Less the 2 weeks of isolation/quarantine and a week for travel and prep, that means the Boks should have left SA +/- October 10th. The first match of the Rugby Unlocked was on October 9th, with almost no preparation and group training prior to these matches. We were in a hard lockdown well into September.

Mar 17, 2021, 16:29

Your facts are wrong...we played 6/7 Super matches at the start of the schedule. .....they were played before the RC schedule in the normal way.

And nobody is suggesting we could have prepared in South Africa, we could have simply done what the Bargies did. A team could have been selected and prepared for a month in Oz...most of the guys would have enjoyed the break.


This was just Erasmus trying to protect his WC takings....pathetic cowardice.

Mar 17, 2021, 17:28

 

Mar 17, 2021, 17:30

The 2020 Tri Nations Series was the seventeenth edition of the annual southern hemisphere competition, involving Argentina, Australia and New Zealand. Wikipedia
Bledisloe Cup: New Zealand
Dates31 Oct 2020 – 05 Dec 2020

Mar 17, 2021, 17:30

Which facts are you disputing?

Mar 17, 2021, 17:40

 Link

THU OCT 8, 2020 / 10:17 AM EDT

South African rugby makes belated return after COVID-19 lockdown

Mark Gleeson

 

Photo

FILE PHOTO: A fan wears a face mask during a Super Rugby match between the Sharks and the Stormers as it was announced that Super Rugby will be put on hold after this weekend's matches over the coronavirus outbreak in Durban, South Africa, March 14, 2020.

REUTERS/ROGAN WARD/FILE PHOTO

CAPE TOWN (Reuters) - South African clubs return to competitive action after a six-month hiatus to complete what is expected to be their final appearance in Super Rugby before the teams switch their focus to compete in Europe’s Pro Rugby event from next season.


While Australia and New Zealand have completed their versions of Super Rugby since the southern hemisphere competition was suspended in March due to the COVID-19 pandemic, South Africa’s harsh lockdown has only allowed a return to field now.


The Bulls, Lions, Sharks and Stormers will play a competition called Super Rugby Unlocked in what will be their last involvement before the teams are likely to defect to the PRO14 competition in the northern hemisphere from next year.

Mar 17, 2021, 17:54

There goes the thread, the thread , the thread....haha.


Mar 17, 2021, 17:56

There goes the thread!

Mar 17, 2021, 17:56

There goes the thread. Why do morons who can't even perform a simple task like copy and paste always copying and pasting?

Mar 17, 2021, 18:02

Moz...all those matches are pre lockdown. 

Mar 17, 2021, 18:06

  

Mar 17, 2021, 18:08

NZ started playin June 13th....10 rounds...

Mar 17, 2021, 18:57

‘There goes the thread’......waaaaaahahaha......poor old Peeper. 

Mar 17, 2021, 18:59

Draad you said most of  Super Rugby was played concurrently with the RC....in reality the RC was pushed back and Super Rugby was suspended after 6 matches. Not ideal ....but nobody had perfect preparation.

Mar 17, 2021, 19:18

These are unprecedented times, and the Boks are not being careful. Without exposure to foreign rugby, South Africans are naturally inclined to regress. Before WW2 Germany was a rugby superpower; we have been experiencing quite a change the past ten years, as the big three have been successfully broken up, and the rest of the world has caught up, or not far off it. Rugby thriving in new territories and dying in others. All this, and Erasmus avoids any opportunity to play rugby. Not good. 

Mar 17, 2021, 20:41

Moz I see you are still missing the point and you have you SA super rugby match timings all wrong

Surprise surprise

Mar 17, 2021, 21:07

I was talking about the post lockdown  "Rugby Unlocked" matches...counting any games pre lockdown is nonsensical...the lockdown was more than 6 months ... more than 3 times more than the normal annual break.

Mar 17, 2021, 21:10

"Moz I see you are still missing the point and you have you SA super rugby match timings all wrong"

He's counting the pre-lockdown matches for some odd reason.

Mar 17, 2021, 21:45

Moz does not know what he is talking about

Mar 17, 2021, 22:08

Mozart has been going on about this for months showing clearly he does not know what really happened,   He blamed Erasmus for the decision not to participate in the RC - while  he did not make  the decision not to participate..    

Fact is he lost track of what was allowed under lockdown was vastly different from Australia and New Zealand - hence the absence of internal games in SA.   Was  it possible to bring back the SA players in Europe for training - no it was not  since any returnees would have to be isolated for 14 days,    

In fact the logistics  to organize participation was a nightmare  and that have  been pointed out to Mozart before anyway, 

I think Mozart was hoping the Springboks would lose - which would strengthen his arguments about SA not deserving to win the WC.                

Mar 17, 2021, 23:08

The lockdown/the schmockdown..  lots of hot air. But it was all possible as the Bargies demonstrated to our everlasting shame. 

Mar 17, 2021, 23:10

"Moz does not know what he is talking about"

Saffy, the older you get, the more you sound like a worn out old man who has bleated himself into an early retirement. I foresee Lügnerin as your future. 

Mar 17, 2021, 23:17

Augie these are the kinds of minds that get fed things by bureaucrats and just believe. Sometimes those beliefs are communism, sometimes nazism, or critical racial theory. The beliefs change with time....the propensity to believe without questioning never changes.

Mar 17, 2021, 23:18

Moz you keep missing the Bargies point as well

Which is very convenient for but does not detract from the fact that after their NZ win they were piss poor confirming that adrenaline can carry you for one game but the that the lack of match preparedness and game time was evident in their games that followed

So the Argies served to reinforce the correct decision taken by SA rugby not to play in the RC

Mar 18, 2021, 02:59

Oh sure....the Bargies draw with Oz on the last  day of competition, playing in Sydney after earlier beating NZ. And somehow that’s evidence that our yellow streak was justified.


You’re a funny man Fave.

Mar 18, 2021, 08:01

This is another thread turned into a deadhead attack on Erasmus and the Springboks. - but the two rugby idiots cannot help themselves - their hatred of Erasmus and certain players in the Springbok team accounts for their deadhead stupidity.   

Mar 18, 2021, 11:24

Getting thrashed 38 - 0 tells the story

Mar 21, 2021, 02:48

Mozart

By all accounts you are a brilliant man - how come when it comes to rugby you are so obstinately idiotic? 

 
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