Inside center stats from the WC and a crude r

Forum » Rugby » Inside center stats from the WC and a crude r

Feb 02, 2024, 04:08

Gainline success:

Tuilagi 79.2%

Esterhuizen 78.5%

Kerevi 65.6%

Bundle Aki 54.3%

Dud Allende 51.5%

Jordie Barrett 50.8%

Committing two tacklers:

Esterhuizen  84.2%

Tuilagi 75%

Dud Allende 72.7%

Kerevi 61.6%

Bundee Aki 60.5%

Joordie Barrett 45.8%

Tackle evasion:

Dud Allende 40%

Bundle Aki 33%

Esterhuizen 28.6%

Jordie Barrett 27.5%

Tuilagi 25.9%

Kerevi 20.7%

Dominant carry:

Bundee Aki 63.8%

Tuilagi 60.9 %

Dud Allende 46.9%

Kerevi 41.4%

Esterhuizen 41.2%

Jordie Barrett 27.3%

Try involvement:

Bundee  Aki 6

Barrett 4

Tuilagi 2

Dud Allende 1

Kerevi 1

Esterhuizen 0

If we assign ranking points to each category and add them up per player, giving 6 for the highest and 1 for the lowest. We get:

Tuilagi 22

Bundee Aki 22

Dud Allende 19

Esterhuizen 17

Kerevi 13

Barrett 11

Now this is not a totally fair comparison. Firstly try scoring and gain line success should be weighted higher. Secondly the try scoring variable depends on the number of games which counted against Esterhuizen and benefitted Dud Allende and Barrett.

So our centers are middle of the pack. Aki  and Tuilagi the cream of the crop and the Aussie and NZ centers the least effective. I was surprised by how low Barrett ranked in almost every category, except try scoring involvement

Feb 02, 2024, 04:17

Where's the work over the ball at the breakdowns? DDA is almost like an extra loose forward.

Feb 02, 2024, 05:25

DdA could evolve into a valuable member of our bomb squad slotting in either 12  13  6  or  7.

Feb 02, 2024, 05:53

btw. I believe Kwagga out injured for I dunno, definitely early tests.

Feb 02, 2024, 08:19

SO DUD ranks third best. If he is a Dud what are the others? 

Feb 02, 2024, 09:12

It is a reminder of why stats only play a part of the picture. Stats provide no context

Reading the stats leads to the impression Barrett was below average in the WC - reality tells us he was far better than that

The opposite is true of Tuilagi - stats give the impression he was great, reality tells us he was at best solid to good

Feb 02, 2024, 12:33

Yep Tuilagi didn't make much of impression at the RWC. 

Given their outstanding defence and good work on attack Allende and Kriel are right up there as a center combo. 

Feb 02, 2024, 12:33

You don't win a RWC with 2 weak centers. 

Feb 02, 2024, 13:05

DA and Kriel are class acts as are Esterhuizen and Am . Not to mention Willemse and Moodie

Feb 02, 2024, 13:17

Sorry Mozart - but most of the above ae BS.    y ou make your won assessment on rough and dubious stats and then give your own  assessment of player. performances.   I assume the stats do not include WC test performances,

Real performance require a system available to the general public detailing all the activities of players on the field of play.    When deciding on actual performances and basing  future strategies on wo should be elected to play.   

Meyer and Coetzee had those details available and never used it.    Erasmus got those detailed information available and start rebuilding the team based on those data and abilities of players and  has used it consistently since 2018.

   .            .   .     

Feb 02, 2024, 15:44

Try involvements is the key result measure ….Dud ranks 4 out of 6 despite having played the whole WC. He simply makes almost no contribution to scoring.

The other measure which incorporates tackle evasion and dominant carry… gainline success. He ranks 5th out of 6 in that measure. Which demonstrates that the tractoring produced little concrete benefit.

A bit of analysis clarifies the tractoring style does well in committing tacklers and avoiding being brought down by tackles….but doesn’t get you over the gain line nor does it contribute to tries.

Feb 02, 2024, 18:05

Bullshit Moz we know for a fact that DA almost always gets over the gainline it’s his biggest strength

It’s not his job to provide try assists, it’s his job to create phases by imposing himself physically

Chief try assists have come from Willie and Am and now Willemse

Surely Moz you know these obvious roles the players have

Just like we can expect Mostert to take his line outs and kick offs and make his tackles we can’t expect him to carry in traffic - it’s not his role

Feb 02, 2024, 21:58

He doesn’t get over the gainline…..I’ll take Opta’s stats vs your anecdotal observations Dave. You are just seeing what you believe, what you want to see.

Feb 04, 2024, 09:57

You used shit and spread it conswtantly.    The stats you use have no real evaluation and is worthless as such.    Have you got nothing else to do and spend your time repeating the same garbage continuously.      

Feb 04, 2024, 10:58

Sorry I believe what I see before any Mozzie star about gain line success regarding Alkende. 

Allende is freakishly strong and does very well in the gainlne battle.

Reminds me of poor Doos saying Alkende was pap etc. 

These two crazies have no clue. 

Feb 04, 2024, 13:11

Did De Allende not make a try - got up resulting  in the try scored by D e A Allende agaibnst th French,    However, since you never see anything you do not want to see - youy would miss out on that one too.   

You have aq real record of BS you got onto site.   Your topics since the WC was the following:-

*     Erasmus is aa failure as coach and should be replaced by White - that BS started in 2018 aand is continuing; 

*     Du Toit - the shit-spreading started in 2013 and is now on the go for more than 10 years. However - despite the World Rugby player of the year in 2019 and being the MOM - you claim he is useless and a negative for the team.

*      De  Allende the attack started in 2014 and is now near to a decade th at you went off  your rocker. 

I have discussed these topics with some ex-Springboks and they said anybdy coming  u p        

Feb 04, 2024, 13:44

It’s not my stat, it’s OPTA’s stat. Dud Allende is close to last among big nation centers in getting over the gain line.

Feb 04, 2024, 14:05

“ Opta is recognised by sports fans across the globe, known and trusted as independent, consistent and accurate by coaches, players, journalists, broadcasters, brands and sports apps – and most importantly, by fans, in every corner of the earth. As well as helping the best in sport create magic, we also create our own.” Maybe before accusing someone of BS, check first not to get EGG all over Yourself : )

Feb 04, 2024, 15:49

Stats without the right context is useless...

Feb 04, 2024, 17:29

Exactly Mike, mozzie has be wrong about a number of issue for a decade or more. Nothing can change the poor oaks mind. Not even wining World cups or winning the World Rugby player of the year award.

It's all because everybody is wrong but mozzietard is tight. 
This is getting a bit scary. Mozz is not himself. Something is going on with him. The condition is worsening. 

Feb 04, 2024, 17:47


The stats may come from basic stats provided - the deductions all came from you.   Your deductions are BS.   Esterhuizen played in three of the  easier games in the Round Robin stage of the competition. - in all important games De  Allende played.    Why was it not the other way around if he is as good as you claim he is?      .              .    

Feb 04, 2024, 23:16

Moz there is one certainty in rugby and that is DA almost always carries defenders when he takes contact

This is a fact. He is the most effective carrying 12 in the game

Feb 05, 2024, 00:47

So now the Opta stars are wrong but Clapper’s instincts are right. And you guys actually buy the BS. The OPTA stats are right. They give Dud above average marks for avoiding tackles, committing tacklers and dominant carries. But all that means is it’s a struggle to bring him down… not that he makes meters.

His low meters per game, lack of hitting the line at pace ….all amount to no gain line success. He tractors, there is a struggle….eventually he goes down without making many meters.

In fact these numbers provide a perfect picture of the typical Dud carry. The stats are not at fault…your perceptions are at fault.

Feb 05, 2024, 07:04

As Dave says Allende is very powerful and makes the hard yards. Made harder of course by the fact the opposition try very hard to shut him down knowing the threat Damian poses in this regard. - no Stat can take into account this sort of fact. 

As Draad so rightly said stats have to be seen in context. Ou mozzietard after all these years is yet to realize this. :D

Feb 05, 2024, 18:39

So if you carry into contact and gain a metre you are breaching the advantage line

DA does that more effectively than any other 12 in the game and that’s purely down to his raw strength

It’s the very reason he had the highest percentage for dominant tackles in 2023. His strength sees him hit a player and drive them backwards more than any other back

There are certain givens when it comes to DA and that’s his raw strength that sees him carry defenders on attack and do the same to attackers on defence

Feb 06, 2024, 03:20


5/9 England
5/1 New Zealand

Zero gain line success in the semi or the final in 10 carries.

Feb 06, 2024, 08:56


And aren't these exactly the games where a 12, vaunted in the light DDA is, should shine? 

Am I correct in assuming that, Saffex? You've told us rugby is much tighter. You've said that DDA is the best 12 in the world for exactly the reason that he is built to gain those ever more valuable inches.

But here we have evidence of all-important tight games, where inches matter, that he's simply not the guy you think he is.

Or is this too anecdotal for your liking?

Let's see how long it takes the Kiwi attacking coach to snub DDA.

Feb 06, 2024, 11:36

I have discussed these topics with some ex-Springboks and they said anybdy coming  u p

You guys clearly didn't realize Mike already put the argument beyond doubt with this line here. Pay attention FFS.

Feb 06, 2024, 15:21

I don’t like the way Bosman’s mother has been ditched for these new anonymous sources.

Feb 06, 2024, 20:16

Now you see why relying on stats alone is completely flawed

DA in the final ran 5 times and passed 5 times so given he does not offload that often it means clearly he never took contact

The stats say he only gained one metre but also beat one defender - if that is the case then beating the defender must have happened in the metre gained which in itself sounds suspicious

Against England 9m gain in 5 runs in traffic is respectable - on par with the kind of stat we would see from Eben

We know DA is employed to carry in traffic, it’s his thing

Feb 07, 2024, 06:07

D ave

Mozart use of basic stats are total BS .  The real issue si that tere are adanced computer-based infomation that delivers the end evaluation of player performances.   Thoe progams available ito both Meyer and Coetzee wa  with disastrous consequences ignored by Mozart - since he ahs no access to the real evaluation programs - but he is not alone in that - Meyer and Coetzee also did not use them with disastrous consequences for Springbok rugby.   

What is really amazing to me that asked in 2015 about the poor - and I men very poor performances by the  Springbok backline - Mozart claimed that 90% of the fucntions of a flyhalf is to kick balls.    Mozart then claimed that kicking at goal is the only norm for evaluating players in the flyhalf position.   He never criticized Morne Steyn, the worst Springbok flyhalf ever for destroying backline play.\

Mozart has a one-tracked path he follows now - attack Erasmus, attack Du Toit and attack De Allende.   That makes up 99% of his present rugby threads he start now.  The flops in backline play caused by Meyer and Coetzee were never a topic with him - he called 10 man rugby - of which White was an extreme supporter and so was Meyer and Coetzee - as traditional SA Rugby.   Now he claims that it is the case with Erasmus  - but the fact is his BS is not taking  into account facts he preferred not to see.



Feb 07, 2024, 15:37

Drivel alert.

Feb 07, 2024, 15:51

If Mozart says drivel alert he means FACTS alert.   He calls it drivel - because facts is against his belief in lies and distortion.   /     

Feb 07, 2024, 16:11



5/9 England
5/1 New Zealand

 Oh dear did I distort those numbers? Explain the distortion please Clapper.

Feb 07, 2024, 16:52

5 runs with 5 passes according to the stats and one defender beaten - makes no sense

I guess the only solution is to watch the game again for a proper take as the stats tell us zero as per usual

Feb 07, 2024, 19:34

Dud’s direct opponent:

J BarrettC016164706

Would you say 6 defenders beaten and 47 yards trumps …1 defender beaten and 9 yards.

Dud has gummed up our back line play for 10 years… took us out of WC 2015 and almost  did exactly the same thing in 2023 providing an honor guard for Mo’unga setting up a try that was  fortuitously overturned.

Feb 07, 2024, 20:18

DA is better than Jordie one test does not define their careers. Nor do stats tell a story. Most of what happened to Jordie in that final was him getting absolutely smashed by PSDT

There is a reason DA is the longest serving 12 in the best side in the game and why he made team of the year in 2023

DA is a class act

Feb 10, 2024, 03:22

12: Bundee Aki

Ageing like a fine New Zealand wine. Now 33 years of age, the adopted Irishman has honed his impressive size with fast footwork, deft hands and an eye for the tryline to become probably the greatest inside centre in world rugby currently.

Feb 10, 2024, 03:23

Deft hands…perhaps Dud could ask Santa for those.

Feb 10, 2024, 06:00

Bidenitis struck again

You need to Log in to reply.
Back to top