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Is the Sharks a happy team?

Forum » Rugby » Is the Sharks a happy team?

Apr 13, 2019, 17:06

I have my doubts. They don't look like a team that's playing for each other. They don't function as a unit. They hardly look coached.


Apr 13, 2019, 17:09

So last week they were well coached and happy and this week not. That these oaks cant catch a ball cant be the coaches fault. 

Apr 13, 2019, 17:52

It goes deeper than dropped passes. Their support of their ball carriers were poor, breakdown cleanout and protection poor, backline is lateral behind the advantage line and seemingly rudderless.

Apr 13, 2019, 18:06

How was it last week?

Apr 13, 2019, 18:22

It was fine. They got easy dominance in all facets against an inferior side who let them play. It's easy to look good then.

Apr 13, 2019, 19:30

Pakie what was your call before the game...Mike stated his but I don't suppose many will disclose their pre game takes.

I believe the Sharks are a happy side but who would be happy with such a poor performance. Methinks they are perhaps at times a little too happy, too complacent and over confident following previous success, like the Lions game and too flippant...no game should be treated as a walk in the park...trouble awaits those sides that do and we have seen it happen so many times.

It was a real shocker...shows you one can't ride on the crest of a wave...wipe outs happen when you are not sharp and it goes from bad to worse.

It will be interesting to see where they go from here...maybe it's a huge wake up call.

The other factor is that we underestimate the Jaguares...afterall they are close to an international side and they are a quality side. It will be interesting to see how they tour...they generally tour well.


Apr 13, 2019, 20:05

Pakie

There are a few problems in that team and it is all in the backline    So lets look at where the problems start and who are the main contributors:-

*   I was earlier on when eh played for the Stormers was saying that Du Preez is a good flyhalf.   It all went wrong for him in the Wales test last year.   After that test he seemed to have become a poor decision maker and what he decides on normally goes wrong,   He klicks when he should pass the ball and pass the ball when he should kick.   He begons more and more rto look like in the Morne mold  he bcame a very poor flyhalf.  

*    I think the other problem is their centers.   Esterhuizen is seriously pace=deficient and as a result his attacking game is more like a Tight 5 player carrying a ball.   His defense is normally ion the poor side and today was another typical example.   His missed tackle ratio today was 40 - and that is not all -  because of pace deficiency there are tackles he should attempt and never does,    Am on the other hand is another problem 0 he sometimes made good ball carries - but then the whole movement ends in zero,   

With Du Preez, Esterhuizen and Am inside of them the wings are jeopardized and teethless.          

Apr 13, 2019, 22:14

No Mike, the problems extend far beyond the backline, where Robert du Preez is by far the biggest problem. Esterhuizen and Am is capable, we know that and they've both been good this season even if they were poor today. To see what Robert does (or doesn't do, more accurately) take the leadup to the Matera try.

If Robert runs hard at the circled Player 1 he pins him and the Sharks have a brief overlap outside, or perhaps even a gap for Esterhuizen to attack. Instead he passes far too early, and Player 1 simply shifts over to become the first Esterhuizen tackler. No more overlap, no gap. 

Contrast this to what Bosch did later from flyhalf. He runs at the line - if he had passed at this point, the targeted player could just shift over to Fassi. But Bosch keeps running at him, pins him and that opens the gap. I've never seen Robert du Preez do that.

For the rest, there were big problems at the breakdowns where the Sharks were completely ineffective, and damn near everyone's handling was pathetic.

Apr 13, 2019, 22:41

Pakie

Maybe in your book Esterhuizen and Am has been good this year - I find it strange because the whole approach is just based on prejudice.   You never saw any deficiencies in  Esterhuizen  and Am  at all?   

I am not interested in what happened in individual incidents - what count is how they performed generally.    A few weeks ago the Sharks played the Stormers and lost the game - without analyzing the real reasons for the loss,   Fact is they lost the game because of flyhalf and center inefficiency.    

But all that does not count - because it weakens the  basis for your hate campaign  agaimnst Kriel and De Allende.   In that case facts like pace deficiency  does not impact on attacking and defensive play.     So lets quote your story under another threads:-

"Sharks not very organized out back. Esterhuizen again getting the ball with two guys to cover him and nowhere to go."

I countered that deficiency and then we get photos dealing with Du Preez and Bosch - when I said that Du Preez is a problem  - why harp on him alone,   He is not the only problem - there are ample others attached to the centers of the Shark.   Fact is centers are supposed to be able to think - and I found that to be impossible in the case of the two centers involved.     


 

    

Apr 14, 2019, 07:26

Esterhuizen and Am are not the Sharks problem. Who do you want to replace them with that's going to be any better?

As for this:

But all that does not count - because it weakens the  basis for your hate campaign  agaimnst Kriel and De Allende.

I've called the noteworthy things both of these players have done in my live commentaries this season. I praised DA two weeks ago for how he upped his speed and distribution and created opportunities. Look up that live thread. I've said a lot of good things about Kriel too. I have no sentiment invested in rugby players. If they do something good I'll call it. If they do something bad I'll call it. What we say here doesn't make a jot of difference to how they play or their chances of selection.

Apr 14, 2019, 07:28

His missed tackle ratio today was 40

Making 6/8 tackles doesn't equal a 40% missed ratio.

Apr 14, 2019, 08:33

That was based on what ESPN showed initially - his latest figure is  25% .   Coupled to two possession losses he is apparently still making your TOW,   

Apr 14, 2019, 08:53

ESPN initially showed 5 made / 2 missed right after the game. Still not 40%. You're sitting there accusing me of prejudice while you're manipulating numbers to make the player look bad.

Of course he won't make my TOW. If was his worst game of the season.

Apr 14, 2019, 09:03

Thanks for correcting my mistake  - but both  40%  and 25% are bad stats for defense or dio you find a 25%  MTR acceptable? 

In how many poor performance games have he been your TOW player?

Apr 14, 2019, 09:03

Thanks for correcting my mistake  - but both  40%  and 25% are bad stats for defense or dio you find a 25%  MTR acceptable? 

In how many poor performance games have he been your TOW player?

Apr 14, 2019, 09:03

Thanks for correcting my mistake  - but both  40%  and 25% are bad stats for defense or dio you find a 25%  MTR acceptable? 

In how many poor performance games have he been your TOW player?

Apr 14, 2019, 09:04

Thanks for correcting my mistake  - but both  40%  and 25% are bad stats for defense or dio you find a 25%  MTR acceptable? 

In how many poor performance games have he been your TOW player?

Apr 14, 2019, 09:33

Ag Mike, do you really want to do this merry-go-round shit again? I can retort by asking you in how many bad games have DA made your TOW. And then you'll retort with something equally stupid and this thread turns into a long string of bullshit again. We don't need to keep hammering on about Esterhuizen, we'll never agree or change each other's opinions.

dio you find a 25%  MTR acceptable

Did you find Damian's 33% MTR against the Blues acceptable? Why didn't you point it out like you're pointing out Esterhuizen's?

Ideally you want your tackle success above 80%. Esterhuizen's tackle success for the season is 84%, DA 87%. They're both on par.

Apr 14, 2019, 09:37

And the number of tackles and attempted tackles count for NOTHING?  

Apr 14, 2019, 09:45

DA averages about 1.3 tackles per game more than Esterhuizen. Happy Sunday Mike. I'm not getting on the merry-go-round today.

Apr 14, 2019, 10:43

So that explains the 52 tackles made by De Allende against the 33 made by Esterhuizen in the series this year sufficiently?  

Apr 14, 2019, 16:17

Sigh. Let's break it down in minutes again to be 100% accurate.

Damian has played 636 minutes for 64 tackle attempts. That is a tackle attempt every 9.9 minutes = 8.05 tackles per game.

Andre has played 504 minutes for 44 tackle attempts. That is a tackle attempt every 11.45 minutes = 6.98 tackles per game.

In other words, a 1.07 tackle attempts per game difference.

Using successful tackles only:

Andre successful tackles 5.87 per game.

Damian successful tackles 7.04 per game.

Difference 1.17 per game.

You can keep pursuing this line as long as you want, but in truth this myth about Esterhuizen's poor defense is not worth comment anymore and growing pretty stale now. Both in test rugby last year and now in SR the difference between the two in number of tackles per game remain roughly 1, while their success ratios remain mid-80s, with Damian edging both numbers.

Apr 14, 2019, 17:14

Look try and get some sense into that thick skull of yours.   The tackle count of Esterhuiznen is low and that is the problem in this case.   To try and use all kinds of calculations does not take away the problem.   

Problem is he is too pace-deficient to make critical tackles  so he made no attempt at all to attempt tackles.


Apr 14, 2019, 17:14

Look try and get some sense into that thick skull of yours.   The tackle count of Esterhuiznen is low and that is the problem in this case.   To try and use all kinds of calculations does not take away the problem.   

Problem is he is too pace-deficient to make critical tackles  so he made no attempt at all to attempt tackles.


Apr 15, 2019, 08:47

You guys can squabble all you like ... both Esterhuizen and Am are simply not test match material and I am delighted that neither are part of my struggling Lions team.

Funny thing is ... both will be a part of the Goat mix.


Apr 15, 2019, 09:31

CC

You are 100% correct - I have consistently said that Esterhuizen is not a test class player yet Pakie and Mozart pretends that he is.

I am not sure whether Esterhuizen will be in the Springbok squad at all - there are other options like Serfontein to be borne in mind.   As to Am I am not sure either - there is too much chaos in defense with him around.    

Apr 15, 2019, 12:47

Pakie what was your call before the game...Mike stated his but I don't suppose many will disclose their pre game takes.

Chabal, sorry, I never answered your question. I seldom bother with making pre-game calls. Don't really see the point.

If someone had put a gun to my head I would probably have backed the Sharks though.

Apr 15, 2019, 12:55

Image result for prizzi's honor


Apr 15, 2019, 12:58

?

Apr 15, 2019, 13:32

The Sharks lack structure and central to their problems is Robert Du Preez junior.

Apr 15, 2019, 14:28

Looking at the tries the Sharks conceded, here are the main perpetrators.

Try 1: Robert at 2:41 chooses not to tackle J8 but rather to drift onto the next guy, which allows J8 to just keep going, almost making it to the line himself with a nice offload finishing the try.

Try 2: Esterhuizen loses ball in contact at 32:32, Vermeulen then knocks it forward trying to pick it up and instead of falling on it to secure it instead tries a little kick ahead as the ball rolls away from him which goes into the hands of J9, who starts the counter. Sharks stand around in a bundle on the right (waiting for the whistle?) which leaves a huge gap for Matera to run into.

Try 3: At 37:13 J11 runs straight through Robert's tackle and shakes off a weak effort from Vermeulen.

Try 4: No one clearly at fault. Sharks defense disorganized when they lose their lineout and Jags go wide quickly. Big problem though is the 5 Sharks chasing wide after Jag 11 (no communication?) leaving big gaps when he steps back inside. Andrews misses a crucial but difficult tackle which could have stopped the try scorer. You also get the feeling Robert could have done a little more to help stop the try at 42:20.

Try 5: Kick ahead and foot race, no one clearly at fault except perhaps the Shark who I can't identify patrolling the blind side going for the scrumhalf instead of staying on the wing.

Try 6: Mvovo misses the vital tackle by overshooting his man, leaving himself open for the inside step. Esterhuizen, Fassi and what looked like Am all proceed to drift too wide, leaving a massive gap on the inside.

Try 7: A nothing on, nothing to lose situation as the Sharks try to run from their own tryline, Bosch is tackled and Jags ruck over for a final try.

The more I look at it the more I feel the Sharks simply don't look switched on. They look disinterested. Too many players are observing instead of getting involved and there doesn't seem to be much communication, especially on defense.

 
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