Learnt an interesting point re test selection

Forum » Rugby » Learnt an interesting point re test selection

Jan 22, 2020, 19:49

I was chatting to Alex Moon’s dad about Alex’s inclusion in the England 6N’s squad.

I asked him if Alex had, had any inclination that he would be selected. John said no other than the fact that Steve Borthwick, the England line outs coach started showing an interest in Alex when he found out that Alex was calling the line outs for the Saints side.

Obviously line outs are an integral part of the game but I did not expect to hear so much importance was attached to who called them, so much so that it could have been a deciding factor for his inclusion.

I know he gets paid more than some of the Saints squad locks because he makes the line out calls

Interesting

Jan 22, 2020, 22:54

Victor Matfield probably falls best into this category.

Being able to jump and catch a ball in a line out is one thing, but reading the opposition and finding weaknesses and exploiting them during line outs is critically important.

Without someone being able to manipulate and make the right calls, it eliminates the threat that a line out brings on attack.

People on here kept calling for Matfields head because he wasn’t a 140kg ball carrier. But hose same people probably don’t understand how important the Matfield brain was to Springbok success.

Jan 22, 2020, 23:18

The beauty with Matfield in his prime was that he was a great player as well. He was a physical liability on his return.

I just can’t imagine selecting a lock because he is great at calling line outs, it’s on par with selecting a 10 like Morne Steyn who was great at goal kicking but crap at everything else.

Alex for instance is huge so plays the enforcer role for Saints but the lad is very bright so I guess that equips him to make the line out calls.

Jan 22, 2020, 23:27

This is why Mostert so often gets the nod....he calls a great lineout and has a winning  lineout record against Dud and Lomp.

Jan 22, 2020, 23:54

The Boks were good in the line outs regardless of who was calling them.

The reason Lood replaced Mostert is because Rassie saw what we all did - Mostert fails physically

Jan 23, 2020, 01:01

Dave 

The calling of line-outs is important, but the problem with Matfield was  I am afraid that in 2014 even when he called line-outs,   he fouled up line-outs on numerous occasions when he failed to take line-outs he called to come to himself.  I can call at least four such occasions where he failed badly and in two occasions he cost the Springboks the games and in the third one he nearly cost them he only game the Springboks against won under Meyer.  It was only saved by a long distance penalty converted by Lambie.

It remains that calling line-outs is not the only thing required from a lock and the contribution in line-outs and in general play.   When a player failed in both or even only in one - he should never been on the team,     


       

Jan 23, 2020, 01:55

Dave....Lomp was great against Japan and innocuous against Wales. Against the Poms he exited early after trying to stop Vunipola. Fortunately we had Mostert.


No period at the WC was more crucial than our late first half goal line stand where Mostert was the most prolific tackler, includingtackles on Vunipola. And he was money in the lineouts.


Nobody wishes any player an injury, but getting Mostert rather than Lomp was  not a bad thing.

Jan 23, 2020, 02:13

Nope Mostert was always a liability with ball in hand whenever he plays. Never imposes himself. His clear out work is weak

As for the goal line defending he was the only forward to miss a tackle against England

Not to mention the WC misses that lead to tries - there were two of those

He is crap Moz there is no getting away from that

He is all heart and energy with limited productivity thanks to his lack of physicality

Jan 23, 2020, 04:18

The only forward to miss a tackle against England? Not sure what you are talking about Dave. In 58 minutes on the park Mostert made the most tackles  and missed none.



40
T MtawariraP0800
M MbonambiH0302
F MalherbeP01110
E EtzebethL01310
L JagerL0600
S KolisiFL11300
P ToitFL11110
D VermeulenN81810
M MarxR01104
S KitshoffR0200
V KochR0900
R SnymanR0310
F MostertR01500
F LouwR0300
H JantjiesR0000
F SteynR0200

Jan 23, 2020, 04:32

Lineout steals by players at the WC:



Lineout steals – player

1 Guido Pagadizabal (Argentina) – 5

2 Izack Rodda (Australia) – 5  

3 Shannon Frizell (New Zealand) – 4

4 Franco Mostert (South Africa) – 3

5 James Ryan (Ireland) – 3

Jan 23, 2020, 09:01

Tackle stats for AB game  Mostert was the worst tackler of all the forwards on the field -

*    Tackles made      -    10

*     Tackles missed   -     4

His one missed tackle let to the Barrett try -  oh no the miss was due to Du Toit bcause he was 5 meters away and should have tackled the ball carrier.

He was exceptionally weak in ball carries -

*     Balls carried       -     8

*     Meters made      -      1               

Weak in line-outs as well - so much so that he as dropped from starting in all - bar agaionst the weakest round robin games.  

So now to the final :-

Mostert  - played  58  minutes - made 15 tackles  =  On average a tackle every 3,86 minutes

De Jager - played  22  minutes - made 6 tackles  =  On average a tackle every 3,67 minutes

A minute difference in the tackle situation between Mostert and De Jager.   In ball carries Mostert was useless -  5 carries - zero meters gained.

Mostert was totally inept in line-outs as well.   Mozart prefer to give the line out count as to steals against weaker teams - but hide away the losses in other games.   This type of stats are totally useless without the full stats being given and evaluated.  Fact is that in at least two tests Mostert was poor in one that he was not used at all as line-out jumper in he next test,.   In other tests he moved around on line-outs - sometimes being in front and sometimes in the position where the number 7 normally jumps - that is in positions where  the ball was not going to.  

 

Anyway Mostert was the weakest forwards player in the one match the Springboks lost - as he was in the AB game in the Super Rugby season.   Despite that - our respected member rated him ahead of Du Toit as player of the year.   That is the type of BS we get on site regularly.     




Jan 23, 2020, 09:58

Those stats as I pointed out are wrong Mostert definitely missed a tackle during that goal line defence, I think Faf was the other culprit

Jan 23, 2020, 12:56

I don't know what you oaks are squabbling about. The fact remains, we won the World Cup against a very good England team that destroyed the All Blacks the weak before. 

If you watch Squidge youtube channel you will notice that in his analysis he points out to SA pressure that they put on the players. So Mostert might have missed a few tackles against the AB but he was extremely valuable because of his fitness and incredible mobility. 

I think he made up for it in the finals and probably knew he had a poor game. It is not every day that a ball carrier will dominate the collisions, especially in big matches like the World Cup

Jan 23, 2020, 13:01

Mostert never dominates collisions regardless of the match for the simple reason he is clearly too lazy off the field to put in any gym work and bulk up.

In the modern game 110kg is far too light for a lock and he is the perfect example of that

He runs around all day and when it’s into contact it’s with zero effect

People who rate him are fooled by his energy and heart - dig deeper and you see the true product

Jan 23, 2020, 13:32

More BS has been written about frot matfiled than any other player. 

For example Chippo notes what a great jumper pap Victor was. No Chippo he was lifted by his props. Yes he has good catching ability. 

Dr Mozzzz was amazed how how quickly airlight matfiled got up into the air. Well that was only because pap victorvwas so light he was easily tossed into the air.

Ou Saffex says matfiled was a great all round lock but lacked physicality after his return. No snapster wee matfiled was always the most feeble "lock" ever to play for the Boks or any test team.

As the great Bakkies said Victor didn't always play in the backline. 

No more BS about this apology for a lock. Boy did wee matfiled con some oaks here big time! 


Jan 23, 2020, 13:37

As for Mostert he has great heart and was a big improvement on matfiled but the world coach of the year saw he too lacked the size and physicality needed to dominate top sides. 

Hopefully we will NEVER EVER see a pap lock like conman wee matfiled ruining our tight five.

Rassie is just so much smarter than the deluded matfiled nutjobs here. Hahahaha what a laugh these cases are. 

Jan 23, 2020, 13:49

"If you watch Squidge youtube channel you will notice that in his analysis he points out to SA pressure that they put on the players. So Mostert might have missed a few tackles against the AB but he was extremely valuable because of his fitness and incredible mobility. "


that is an excellent point.

We harp on about a missed tackle... but when the guy has a work rate higher than anyone else in his position, it is bound to happen.


Id rather have someone put in 20 tackles and miss 2, than a guy that makes 10 and misses 0.


Anyone disagree?

Jan 23, 2020, 13:52

@beeno1...

"Boy did wee matfiled con some oaks here big time! "

as much as Trump has brainwashed you?


Its all subjective at the end of the day beeno.

Jan 23, 2020, 13:56

Matfield is one of the best locks to ever play the game

In his prime he weighed a respectable 115kg’s

Hardly qualifies as wee as dumb Beenkop maintains

Jan 23, 2020, 14:04

David that is the most logical thing you have ever said.

Your rugby knowledge is on the up.


matfield is widely renowned as one of the best locks of all time.

Just ask my Kiwi, Eng and Irish mates.

Jan 23, 2020, 14:25

Chip chip go fuck yourself

Jan 23, 2020, 14:29

Oh what a crock of shit.

Dumb Fuck Dave at his best.

Calling a line out is easy. It's not what made Mostert or Matfield special. Reading the oppositions put in and stealing their ball is where it counts in the end. It's called a turn over, Dumb Fuck. Taking possession away from your opponent. 

Anyone can call a lineout. Even a prop. It's what the hooker does with the ball and how the recipient responds.

There's more to a lock than shouting a few random numbers out ... Dumb Fuck!!

As ignorant as ever.

For one ... his work in the tight loose is by far more important.

A lock gets paid for his total contribution through the match.

Your son's bumchum won't receive a little extra for his limp wristed put in.

Give me a break.

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaaa!!1

What next ... Gelant's the next best 15 to Cullen??



Jan 23, 2020, 14:56

@david... "chip chip"

do you have a stutter?

what the fuck?

I was agreeing with you?

I thought we were over your insecurities and that we could chat about the game of rugby and cricket now.

Jan 23, 2020, 14:58

...you got me going again, you delusional potato.


You know dave, in some countries, you would never have been allowed to see your son until he turned 6!

Jan 23, 2020, 15:11

Flash doooka Trump was an outstanding business man not some weirdo from Kenya community activist. 

Trump has done brilliantly as President as his achievements PROVE. You have to be a serious nutjob to think otherwise. Many people now saying he is the greatest President in American history. 

Jan 23, 2020, 15:20

Saffex you thick plank matfiled was never 115kg you dope. What utter BS. 

He was between 105 and 108 kg. 

When he retired he dropped to 102 kg. Uou don't just drop from 225 to 102kg 

He was the weakest "lock ever. A useless backline wannabee.

Get it into your thick skull matfiled could NEVER  be considered a physical player. 

Of course our opposition loved wee matfiled. America's opposition hate Trump. Wonder why hahahaha. 

Look at the formidable pack Rassie chose. They chewed up everyone. Kolisi may not even have been the best 6 either. 

No the dullard's here have to admit wee pap matfiled destroyed out tight 5 for at least a decade. 

Only a half baked Mampara who doesn't understand lock play would think otherwise. 

Jan 23, 2020, 15:34

Boshoff is talking rugby again watch out - apparently it’s easy to sum up your opponents in the few seconds window to make the line out call. It’s why locks that make those calls get paid more.

But Boshoff knows better

My guess is Boshoff has never played the game.

Jan 23, 2020, 15:35

Beenkop who gives a fuck what you think, your rugby input has always been weak, you know fuck all you ignorant prick

Matfield was brilliant in his day and in his prime weighed 115kg

Jan 23, 2020, 16:08

Flash in the pan dioka please do some research about Trump before making your unfortunate remarks. I hear he has added about 19 trillion dollars to the stock market for example.

Wise up flash

Jan 23, 2020, 17:09

Trump is as thick as pigshit

Jan 23, 2020, 18:25

Donald Trump graduated from the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania in 1968, with a Bachelor of Science degree in economics and anthropology. Mensa doesn’t accept SAT scores from after 1994. However, Mr. Trump was a student at Wharton when it was possible to derive an accurate IQ core from known SAT scores. Given the usual requirements for admission to a top school like Wharton, I estimate that Mr. Trump has a 156 IQ at the minimum.

“The standard description of this level of intelligence is ‘Genius - Exceptional intellectual ability and capable of looking beyond known facts.’ However, the percentile rating is more revealing than the raw score. A 156 IQ is at the 99.9905490555 percentile. That means that Donald Trump is smarter than 99.99 percent of the people on planet Earth. Not only does Trump qualify for membership in Mensa, but he could join the Triple Nine Society [people scoring at or above the 99.9th percentile on selected intelligence tests].”

..........


Now I can't personally verify this....but the logic is sound. Before you go to graduate Business School in the USA you write an SAT exam. This is a quantitative and verbal test.....not an IQ test....but also abstract and unseen. It measures problem solving not knowledge.


So this psychologist is an expert at translating an SAT score into an IQ score. He has Trump's SAT results and estimates the Donald is at 156 minimum. Genius level.


Even if he is off by a little bit, there is no doubt, Trump is a very smart man....but there are plenty of smart men who aren't wise. The only way to judge thatis results, and so far the Donald has acheived remarkable tangible successes.


Put it another way, he has Peeper by about 50 IQ points.


Jan 23, 2020, 19:02

Geez he comes across so fucking stupid and some of his answers to simple issues like climate change are the kind of answers I expect to hear from contestants on Love Island or the like.

Don’t get me wrong I like Trump on a certain level - I like his directness, it’s refreshing from a politician. He is brash, arrogant and very childish with his need to satisfy his ego on Twitter - much like a few of us on here.

It’s also why I like Boris although Boris comes across far brighter and lacks the childish element

Jan 23, 2020, 20:24

Well as an example, his read of the the economic strength was way better than the US Federal Reserve with all their economists. After initially denying the points he made, the Fed has  conceded and  is now following his prescription. And not a moment to soon.


Results are what count.

Jan 23, 2020, 20:33

Clearly the signal from brain to mouth is out of tune when it comes to Trump!!

Vocalising is not a strength of his

Jan 23, 2020, 22:49

You aren’t the target audience Dave.....look at his rallies sometime, as a curiosity.....completely sympathetic communication for that audience.  

 
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