The real lock that played good ganes at lock was Schickerling - he was better than the playes Dave mentioned, Steenekamp is the one prop I would include. Nche has gone backwards in performance and I think he should get his mojo back.
Hooker ws not good enough last week - but which o the sharks did better? Noe I can think of,
The player that sould fit into the team is Damian Willemse - he needs game time badly. . .
.
Wessels at loosehead
Hanro Jacobs at 3
JF v Heerden at 4, he is regularly starting for the Bulls and is looking better and better and is only 19
Manu Tsituka at 8 with Hanekom at 6
Jurenzo Julius is a simple must at 13
Jordan Hendrikse at 15
How about Wessels at hooker. Could he be another Marx type of hooker?
Yeah Wessels is definitely an option at 2 but if we were picking a young side I’d play him at 1 as Andre Hugo Venter is a really good hooker
Good spot on Weasels, that guy is a freak. He could even play at 7 or 6. What a player. Hope they can find a spot for him in the squad.
Both him and Venter got bok caps. I see Dwebe has slipped down the pecking order at the stormers.
Would love to see these guys get an outing
Dweba has been the starting hooker at the Stormers of late but is now injured
I’m a big fan of his - power house
Wessels is a good ball playing prop/hooker
With 2 tests against Italy and one against Georgia I’d definitely use those games to identify the players for the future and give them a run.
Against Italy I’d select:
15. Fassi 14. Moodie 13. Julius 12. Willemse 11. Arendse 10. Sacha 9. Williams 1. Ox 2. Dweba 3. Wilco Louw 4. RG Snyman 5. Ruben v Heerden 6. Hanekom 7. Elrigh Louw 8. Roos
16. AH Venter 17. Steenkamp 18. Thomas du Toit 19. Ruan Vermaak 20. Manu Tsituka 21. Jayden Hendrikse 22. Jordan Hendrikse 23. Ethan Hooker
Second test vs Italy:
15. Jordan Hendrikse 14. Edwil vd Merwe 13. Moodie 12. Ethan Hooker 11. Tyrone Green 10. Libbok 9. Papier 1. Steenkamp 2. AH Venter 3. Thomas du Toit 4. Jenkins 5. Cobus Wiese 6. Buthelezi 7. Vincent Tsituka 8. Manu Tsituka
16. Grobelaar 17. Wessels 18. Sadie 19. Moerat 20. BJ Dixon 21. Nohamba 22. Masuku 23. David Kriel
Against Georgia:
15. Jordan Hendrikse 14. Tambwe 13. Henco v Wyk 12. David Kriel 11. Zas 10. Masuku 9. vd Bergh 1. Wessels 2. Grobelaar 3. Hanro Jacobs 4. Andre Smith 5. JF v Heerden 6. Gumede 7. Ludwig 8. Morabe
16. Dweba 17. Mchunu 18. Frans Klopper 19. Rahl 20. Ruan Venter 21. Jantjies 22. Sacha 23. Rickus Pretorious
I’d select Libbok for all 3 games. We need the reliable steadying influence and robust defense in 10 channel of a man like Libbok. Goal kicking is much overrated. And given the object of all this is to discover more about our youngsters, why not find our more about 27 year old Libbok. So it’s Libbok for me.
YAWN
Libbok….and the Year of Living Dangerously!
I’m game for both
I think Manie would be overkill for those games.
Why waste that powerful shoulder of his on minnows?
...indeed, why reveal the secrets of his magical goal kicking in nothing games.
While on tour, Manie's wife asked him if he misses her.
"Of course I miss you darling. Don't you know I miss everything?"
Fuck me rugby ignorance runs rife
Libbok and Braveheart
Little point in throwing such a random side as your second Italy one into the fray. Nothing will be learned from it, and chances are very good that they'll lose.
Bullshit it’s all about finding the next batch of Boks given the age of our current Boks
Tests at home against Italy and Georgia is the perfect opportunity to do that as the opportunity to play weaker sides before the next WC are few and far between
What is the point of playing them against poor teams?
Do you learn more about a player in a game like that than you do in a URC game against good opposition.
No you don't.
You are better off playing your regular side against poor opposition, giving them the opportunity to refine their synergy. Minnow games are great opportunities for practice and basically worthless for seeing if players are test quality.
From simply watching URC it's very clear who the players are that should step up to the Boks. In fact, it's abundantly clear.
So you give those players opportunities, playing alongside regular Boks, in games that aren't walkovers. And you phase them into regular positions over two/three years. It's not rocket science.
You learn a big fat 0 from picking a random bunch against minnows.
You learn less having your regular side put 50 points over the minnows
Give me my sides playing the minnows all day long
The right way to do this is always to have a core of the existing team, with your most promising newbies playing in with them. You judge them more effectively against their colleagues than you do against weak opponents.
Having a team of newbies tells you little and wastes an opportunity to test the more risky elements in your strategy.
Disagree - given the position we find ourselves in we should be using the 3 tests to play the newbies and from that select the best candidates to mix in with the established players moving forward
In particular we need to be looking at locks and centres as this is an area where we have failed to introduce youngsters
Well the genius will undoubtedly be in my corner.
That’s what makes him a rugby genius - you just never know with him
Thank fuck we have one of if not the best coach to ever coach the game
Three WC’s in a row will never be matched ever again
Hail Rassie you beaut
Hahaha…..now there’s some screwed up logic.
Three WC’s in a row will never be matched ever again
Don't know about never being matched again but I know it will be awfully hard.
Rassie is so far ahead of any other coach and has the runs on the board to prove it.
Suck it up!
Actually he has only won two in a row moron. It will never be matched again because it hasn’t happened….hahaha. No wonder Peeper calls you Dense.
Ever surprised a mouse in the kitchen and it gets such a fright that it crashes into everything as it runs away.
...that's Denise for ya.
Actually my post wasn't directed at you......and you knew that. You're just spoiling for a fight......I know you are, ever since I disagreed with you.......as I've said you're a top bloke as long as one agrees with everything you say......kinda Trump like.
But here's the kicker......No wonder Peeper calls you Dense. Lets say I am. So then based on that logic there is no wonder why Rooinek calls you Moffie?
It’s always good to include more youngsters where ever you can.
But picking a few of the older more experienced ones to guide them, makes sense as well.
Erasmus will certainly carry on with picking his team based around a experienced Core.
He certainly will not underestimate Italy or Georgia.
But picking a few of the older more experienced ones to guide them, makes sense as well.
Agreed, Rassie has made some mistakes in the past but he gets a lot more right than what he gets wrong. He's bang on track to win a third WC. Matter of fact if they had the WC next week then there is no better prepared team to win it than the Boks.
KC how about Ruben V Heerden at 5. Cameron at 6 and Franke Horn at 8. Marcel Theunissen can also play 8.
Another good lock is Adri Smith from the stormers. Another possibility for Blindside flank is Cobus Wiese
I would play David Kriel at 12 and possibly Quan Horn at Fullback. He is a useful player.
Wessels would be good at LH prop and what about Swampie S at TH? He is strong in the scrums.
Two underrated but talented Flyhalf,s, Jurie Mathee and Kade Wolhuter.
MPOWER, yeah I think those are good suggestions. However, players that are over 26 or 27 could be included but not as Rookies in these games and could potentially find other routes into the team.
Right now we have the World Cup double boks that are not 30+ with an average age 33 if you look at De Allende, Kolisi, Malherbe, Kitshoff, Bongi etc. We know that Willie and Mpimpi would probably be their last season this year. But I think we are covered in the back 3.
Cobus Wiese is already 27.
So if you pick players that are under 23, then by the time the next world cup comes around they would be around 24 - 26. With about 30 test left to get them some crucial experience over the coming seasons. There will be some real testing games for them to be introduced into. We have the All Blacks away and then an official All Black tour of SA which should be amazing. That will give the fringe guys to play in A games and truly show how good they are. We play France in France this year, which will also be great for this youngsters to come through.
So I hope that the likes of Cameron, Sasha, Moodie, Wessels have around 30 caps by the time the World Cup comes around and it will make our squad so much stronger. If one of them breaks down then it is easy for Rassie to still call on Kolisi which will be 36 or even Eben. But at least he won't sit with a team of 35+ that will take longer to recover plus there will be now a round of 16. Which means all teams have win 4 games in a row if the want to lift the trophy. Then there is the luck of the draw which 23 the boks played the top 5 teams in the world in a space of 8 weeks. With France, Eng and NZ in the final. Having to play Scotland and Ireland in the lead up.
Rassie's plan is to extend the careers of his oldies. Rassie is smart, knows the value of his oldies and also knows that it's nigh impossible to replace their value leading into the WC. Some of them might go one way or another but he'll hang onto the irreplaceable Etzebeth, Marx, Steph and a few others.
I have to agree with you Denny. I actually saw De Allende in one of the high light reels over the weekend where he actually step around a defender, ran into space, made a line break and then gave a perfect left handed pass for the winger to score. I have never seen him actually glide through the gap like that, ball in both hands and then get such a good pass away.
As long as these guys play in Japan, they will have a long career ahead of them.
Wiese, Marx, Faf, Kolbe, Kwagga, Kriel, De Allende, Arendse are all playing well in Japan. Now we just need Pollard and Eben to go to Japan and job done. Given that their season starts in December and then ends in April, with a decent recovery period before the test window, win win.
Mate, I'm telling you, Rassie has the RWC sussed, his plan is to extend the careers of the oldies, it won't extend if he plays his best side in every test. At the same time he is also building a seamless B side, a side that is ready to fire on all cylinders from the get go. I've never been as confident about Rassie as what I am at this moment in time.
The secret lies in this specific group of players that fit very well together…..tight group of hardebaard Manne.
Rassie,s Motivational /Coaching strengths also play a role.
The boks winning culture has become a habit it seems.
In the history of the RWC there has never been a better prepared side than the current Boks. Rassie is not going to exhaust his best side by playing them on a regular basis, that is just dumb.
All the more reason to play the rookies against the minnows
Perfect opportunity to see what the rookies have to offer over 3 tests
Maybe I was wrong in including Fassi, Arendse, Moodie, Willemse, Libbok, Williams, Ox, Steenkamp, Wilco, Thomas and RG they all have nothing more to prove - they belong.
So over three tests, I’d go with the following:
Fullbacks: Jordan Hendrikse, David Kriel
Wings: Edwil vd Merwe, Green, Tambwe, Zas
Centres: Hooker, Jurenzo Julius, Henco v Wyk, David Kriel, Rickus Pretorious
Flyhalves: Sacha, Masuku, Jordan Hendrikse
Scrumhalves: Hendrikse, Papier, Nohamba, vd Bergh
Props: Wessels, Mchunu, Sadie, Jacobs, Klopper
Hookers: Dweba, AH Venter, Grobelaar
Locks: Moerat, Ruben v Heerden, Ruan Vermaak, Cobus Wiese, Jenkins, JF v Heerden, Rahl, Andre Smith
Loosies: Buthelezi, Theunissen, BJ Dixon, Ludwig, Ruan Venter, Vincent Tsituka, Elrigh Louw, Hanekom, Roos, Manu Tsituka, Gumede, Morabe
A lot is going to depend upon how Rassie manages the oldies and how effectively the oldies hold up.......let's not forget that no-one beats father time. So Rassie would have to keep the oldies ticking over but at the same time energized. That is Rassie's challenge and he's fully aware it's the only way his plan will work. He only has to manipulate their contribution for three games of the WC which is the quarters, semi's and final to achieve maximum benefit from his plan.
As an example one is reminded of that memorable semi in the RWC when England played out of their skin to beat the AB's but had nothing left in the tank against the Boks the following week to realise where Rassie is coming from. Rassie's plan won't allow what happened to England to happen to the Boks.
And while the opposition prepares they will also have to prepare for the added individual brilliance and fire power at Rassie's disposal.....which is Williams, Sacha, Moodie, Fassie and Willemse not to mention Kolbe and Arendse.
Bring it on, it seems like there are interesting and exciting times ahead for Bok rugby who are fortunate to have a coach like Rassie pulling the strings.
Dave, again...
What is the point of playing a random newbie against crap opposition.
What do you learn?
It would be the best that by WC year, 50% at least or maybe even more of the Bok team should be next generation players.
Just the necessary experienced core and those that can stay consistent in form and away from injury.
You would learn far more from the youngsters playing 3 tests in a row than the incumbents putting 50 plus over minnow sides
It’s a no brainer
A coach wants the opportunity to see the rookies playing together in a test environment - testing combinations - frontrow, locks, loosies, halfbacks, centres and back 3
You can’t test David Kriel at 12 in combination with Jurenzo Julius at 13 while they are playing for their provinces now can you?
But put them in a test team and you can
Dave, I doubt Rassie will extend the squad, there might be replacements for injured players but unfortunately he's going to go with what he's already groomed. With newbies he has to start again and it takes time.
To be honest I was really pissed off that we lost by 1 point to Ireland and then a missed penalty kick by libbok against the Bargies.
But, having a 85% winning record is phenomenal.
I still see some of these guys will be too old and no matter how much conditioning and resting they undergo will help them.
I saw how tired that team was in the 2023 World Cup. Etzebeth, Kolisi got yanked, Bongi was on the floor after the Semi's. Lot of pressure on the team not having a younger more experienced hooker in the team. However, the gamble paid off and Deon Branna's Fourie will forever be a legend.
What help was their defence, but the team of 2019 would have done much better given the age and if they had another 4 years together UNDER Rassie.
That said, he has now the time and luxury to bring known players through and even unknowns.
So we may not need so many old guys, just the right amount to come off the bench and close out the games.
I can't see Kolisi play an entire game nor can I see him in 3 years time play 20 min
There are only 33 seats for the World Cup and about 7 that normally on standby. So out of 50 players. Who would you put in your Match Day Group, Dirt Trackers and hanging around the airport.
for me
Match Day 23
33+: Marx, Eben, Pollard, Kriel, Kolbe
30 - 33: RG, Wiese, Ox, Grobbies, Stenekamp, Du Toit, PSDT, Kwagga
27 - 30: Roos, Arendse, Williams, Willemse
20 - 27: Moodie, Sasha, Hannekom, Hendrikse Jordan + Jayden, Louw,
I think this my spine, but not many players other than Willemse that fits in that sweet spot of 27 - 30 age gap. Then if you look at the big names, the are mostly +33
You guys are smoking something. The team was 31 years old in 2023. Not one forward who started against England in November would be under 32, four would be over 35. No team averaging 35 years is going to be fresh for the next WC. Best case a few specialists like Pollard could be available.
We are going to need 10 or so new players who have hardly played test rugby…continuity of tactics and skills is going to be difficult to achieve.
2024 was always going to be a flattering year given the schedule. But we were tied at home by Ireland and really struggled against the Poms at year end. 2025 starts super easy but then we play NZ away twice and we likely have a proper YE tour.
During that tricky period we will need to expose new players. 2025 will give us a better measure of where we stand.
The only 30 odds that might make the next WC are Kolbe, Pollard, Marx and Kwagga
The only irreplaceable of the 30 pluses is Eben
There is enough of a core in Fassie, Arendse, Kolbe, Moodie, Willemse, Pollard, Libbok, Sacha, Williams, Jayden Hendrikse, Ox, Steenkamp, Marx, Thomas, Wilco, RG, Wiese and Kwagga to comfortably move forward
Plenty of excitement to add to this core in Jordan Hendrikse, Green, Edwil vd Merwe, Jurenzo Julius, Henco v Wyk, Hooker, David Kriel, Masuku, Nohamba, vd Bergh, Wessels, Mchunu, AH Venter, Grobelaar, Sadie, Jenkins, Ruben v Heerden, Ruan Vermaak, Moerat, Cobus Wiese, Rahl, JF v Heerden, Andre Smith, Buthelezi, BJ Dixon, Ludwig, Ruan Venter, Gumede, Vincent Tsituka, Roos, Hanekom, Manu Tsituka, Morabe, Dayamani and Horn
"You would learn far more from the youngsters playing 3 tests in a row than the incumbents putting 50 plus over minnow sides
It’s a no brainer"
It's not about beating them or how much by.
It's about building and maintaining synergy. About getting the guys playing together. Because after the Italy and Georgia games it's the RC...and we're playing the ABs away from home. Those AB games are the toughest games for the Boks in 2025.
Yeah there is that but I suspect this side has now played so much rugby together and would therefore fall back into sync pretty quickly so for me it would be more important to identify the next band of Boks
We can only really do this against the minnows
For me the priority is identifying the next group of centres, locks etc but I get your point
Funny how it's made out that Rassie has it wrong when he has the results on the board.
Forum » Rugby » Erasmus the stumbling block
The single biggest factor to breaking the conservative Bok pattern of play and the dawn of a refreshing and much needed new pattern of play rests with Erasmus. Personally I don't think he's up for real change, how could he be?......conservative rugby is in his DNA he wouldn't know another way. Anyone of Williams, Moodie, Faasi, Libbok, Sacha and Hendriks would all aboard into an AB side......not so with Erasmus, clearly he is out of his depth.
Faf for example should be deported if not dropped from the squad, Pollard should be benched, the centre pairing of Da Allende and Kriel should be sentenced to bible readings for the rest of their playing days and Kolisi should take up a political cause with the Democratic Alliance. Malherbe should be banned for promoting McDonalds and Bongi should devote all of his time hiding his visog from the children in his neighborhood.
Jan 07, 2025, 00:59
Three WC’s in a row will never be matched ever again
Rassie is so far ahead of any other coach and has the runs on the board to prove it.
Jan 07, 2025, 13:28
Mate, I'm telling you, Rassie has the RWC sussed, his plan is to extend the careers of the oldies, it won't extend if he plays his best side in every test. At the same time he is also building a seamless B side, a side that is ready to fire on all cylinders from the get go. I've never been as confident about Rassie as what I am at this moment in time.
Jan 08, 2025, 04:23
A lot is going to depend upon how Rassie manages the oldies and how effectively the oldies hold up.......let's not forget that no-one beats father time. So Rassie would have to keep the oldies ticking over but at the same time energized. That is Rassie's challenge and he's fully aware it's the only way his plan will work. He only has to manipulate their contribution for three games of the WC which is the quarters, semi's and final to achieve maximum benefit from his plan.
As an example one is reminded of that memorable semi in the RWC when England played out of their skin to beat the AB's but had nothing left in the tank against the Boks the following week to realise where Rassie is coming from. Rassie's plan won't allow what happened to England to happen to the Boks.
And while the opposition prepares they will also have to prepare for the added individual brilliance and fire power at Rassie's disposal.....which is Williams, Sacha, Moodie, Fassie and Willemse not to mention Kolbe and Arendse.
Bring it on, it seems like there are interesting and exciting times ahead for Bok rugby who are fortunate to have a coach like Rassie pulling the strings.
Hahaha the post where you think we have won 3 WCs in a row, yes we are aware of that embarrassment Quisling. Here’s another, picking the ABs to beat us at home because Harrassmiss picked Pollard. Actually trashing the strategy of preserving oldies you are gushing about in this string. Egg upon egg.
any sense in selecting a WC backline Trifecta at 10,12 and 13, there were no tries on tap during the WC why would things change, seems like a square peg round hole kinda selection, Pollard the penalty machine vs scoring tries and being rewarded with a bonus point. That aside what exactly is he trying to prove stepping back into the past?
The Kiwis won't lie down, they're hurting and will be coming with all cylinders firing in the first half, I just hope they won't get too far ahead on the scoreboard for the Boks to pull them back like last week.
AB's by 10
GL Bokke!
Actually I'm predicting the Boks will win 3 RWC's, my prediction is a run on from Dave's post. Sounds like you're begging for a Moffie style conversation by the amount of times you've knocked on my door. Understandable being bolted up indoors with the amount ice, snow and wind piling up. Careful though with the egg on face thing, remember how relentless you were in slagging off PSDT? He then won rugby's player of the year but instead of shutting your face you kept banging away for another year until he won it for the second time Huh? Now that my friend is priceless, matter of fact nothing anyone has ever said comes close. There must be a record attached to the length of time spent slagging off a player who was voted in as Rugby Player of the year by World Rugby, a neutral body.
Now before you bore me even further, please pop the response to my question.
Like you predicted the ABs were going to beat us by 10 points in South Africa….hahahaha. Oh and this is where I am during winters, rated the second best town in the States, but thanks for your concern:
A typical response.....always living and doing better than everyone else, BTW I had a look at the island it looks pretty boring and ordinary to me.
What was the comment about perpetual losers wanting to accuse others of always having to win?
Case in point.
Quisling gleefully tells me I’m stranded in the snows. He actually did that on two strings, so clearly he thought he had a hot point. So I point out to him, I’m actually not stranded…I have two homes. Then the green monster seizes him and he accuses me of what? Telling the truth. And I actually don’t live on the island, I occasionally go there in my motor launch. If you don’t like powdery white sand and pristine water, it’s pretty boring.
kingcorn
Senior player2,866 posts
As mentioned previously, the boks will have a real soft start to the season with opening games against Italy and Georgia, followed by home test against Australia and Argentina before they head over to NZ to see if they can final win two games back to back against the old foe.
We all have been really impressed with some of the younger players, but I really think Rassie has an opportunity to blood some youngster. To think that Willemse is already 26 and I still think that he is this 19 year old wunderkid
Amongst the forwards, not many players under 23. Under 23 will be my criteria for the first 3 games with a transition to the older players and the the starters leading up to the All Black series.