Media Hype train on young players and too long in the tooth players

I don't know if you okes ever listen to KEO or read their rag on what talent we have and who is coming through. The keep going on about all the young talent and how wonderful SA rugby is. However, it is a stark reminder that all of us on here have gotten carried away over time and in the end we are stuck with player potential that exceeds their actual acts of brilliance. If Dave was on here he would rattle off all of the players that should be boks but then can't pick a starting 15.

I for one are getting a bit tired of all this hype. The latest hype is the midget from the Sharks that debut at 15 Luan Gullimee, he had a decent shift, one 50/22 punt and one try that was fortunate in some form as the ball got hooked inside and the cover defence over ran to hit the ball carrier in the corner. Standing at 1.7 cm and only weight 70kg, I'm not sure he'll survive and I have not seen enough of him to mark him as the next best thing.

Why are we not focusing on those that are 25 and up, they still have time on their side and we should be expecting them to become world class now.

Don't get me wrong, it is great watching a young player come through and fill a void previously lost. We got that from Pollard after many years of not being able to produce a test quality flyhallf. Now we have decent 10's falling out of the trees.

On the flip side, we see all of these 30 + coming home. Serfontein delivered nothing, Pollard has been hot and cold and have been outshone by Sasha on a number of occasions. I see Deon Fourie still knocking around at 39 and Rassie is still involving him I the alignment camps.

The media should be focussing on how our core players are performing, great to mention a young talent cameo, but please stop putting so much pressure on them. Just allow them to play and keep them humble.

Look at what happened to Gavon Henson, Danny Cipriani, Markus Smith etc, all hyped up and then the came unstuck or fell out of favour.

Thoughts?

"Why are we not focusing on those that are 25 and up, they still have time on their side and we should be expecting them to become world class now."

Moodie, Ethan, Sacha - still young but established already.

For sure we need to focus on players the wrong side of 25, and even 30...but there is huge value in finding exceptional youngsters and establishing them early. Those three youngsters above will only compound advantage year on year for at least the next 8 years.

But I agree that the crazy hype is silly. We're a short while away from having our most effective group of Boks retiring, and the new guys are gonna have to step up. So we'll know soon enough if the hype is worthwhile and what score to give Rassie's contingency planning.

To me, it should still be called the top 4% for a reason and age does matter but shouldn't be the deciding factor. Saying that, the older players need to prove they have more than just experience on their side and can still do the job.

That's the SA Rugby public and media, talking up Giliomee's 50/22 like the guy just scored a solo from his own tryline. Didn't a forward from one of our sides kick a 50/22 just the other day?

"Didn't a forward from one of our sides kick a 50/22 just the other day?"

Nizaam Carr I think...

No, Nizaam Carr fly-kicked a cross kick that led to a try. I think Jeandre Rudolph was the forward who kicked the 50/22.

I know the highlights reals were full when Ox made a sweet left foot punt up the field.

I guess these guess have to find clicks.

I ended up listening to Keo and Zels for over an hour how the waffle on about their rugby knowledge, this and that. The title was Markus Miller, the next bok bolter for Rassie but they never spoke about him.

I know I posted the u23 backline or youth backline the other day, but that is just a thought experiment of where we could end up, but never called for them to be the starting bok backline as that will come with time.

Agree that Hooker, Sasha, Moodie are tracking along nicely and Moodie debut at 19 if memory serves me well

But Rassie is in a difficult place, he is two years out form the next World Cup, his stalwarts are dropping like flies or severely out of form.

That bok team squeaked through and were lucky at times and not as convincing as 2019.

Rassie needs to try and accelerate some youngsters now because he has been caught short as there are not experience player between 27 and 29. 29 being the sweet spot for average age of the test team. What we'll end up with either very young or very old. Same problem Meyer had in 2015 and the two don't server the other well.

On Luan, I would jump up and take note if he was carving up the field like Cullen from the back with those amazing runs from the end of the earth. Didn't see a single decent line break or meters made

I thought Luan did a pretty good job on debut. Every time he got the ball, he made some ground and eventually scored a try.

He is only 19 and has plenty of time to hone his skills. We have a lot of talent, and it is good that they start early. Build them up gradually so they do not get burnt out.

I cannot wait for Markus Muller to play. The same goes for AJ Meyer, who is an excellent lock prospect. In my opinion, he will one day be up there with the likes of Eben and RG.

I watched Luan's match reel on the Sharks Youtube channel earlier. He was solid, good pass out of a tackle to help set up the last try too. His positioning seemed sound. They did cut away very quickly at one play where he lost the ball in contact. I don't mind positivity about a player, but some of these things, like putting up a short of his 50/22 ON DEBUT just comes across as artificial cheerleading - like the commentators in the France/Eng game creaming themselves about Anton kicking a clearance to halfway. It's a kick into touch, settle down. All the best to the chap though.

Now that we are talking, who would you say were the best young player to have the greatest impact.

For me it would be Frans Steyn, I don't think the hype about Willemse comes close to what he did at debut. Willemse now 27 and no longer a spring chicken and still struggles to kick in from all the hype around him.

I can speak for other nations but Carter was very impressive from a young age.

For me a young player has to match or exceed what Frans Steyn did.

Sasha had a break through game last year but he was already 23. Not a 19 year old in a world cup final

There is very few beside Steyn and Moodie at 19.

At 20 we have Handre Pollard, Schalk Burger, Pat Lambie, Johan Goosen, Jan Serfontein, Eben Etzebeth, Damian Willemse.

At 21 we have Bryan Habana, Jean de Villiers, PSDT, Lood, Siya Kollisi, Jesse Kriel, Ethan Hooker, Zachery Porthen

At 22 we have Sacha, Jordan hendrikse, Malcolm Marx, Fourie du Preez, Lukanyo Am, Beast.

Brent Russell was also a bit of a revelation - I remember him setting the Straeuli Bok trial game alight when he came on. But also 22 I think by that time.

"There is very few beside Steyn and Moodie at 19."

I do feel a bit bad going on about specific players as much as I often do, but Moodie is just so bloody good.

He had an iffy game on the weekend, holding onto the ball a bit too long on a few occasions, but he's still a baby and already a certified real deal.

I just can't, no matter how hard I try, see Willemse as his centre partner. Once AE goes, I'm starting to think it has to be Hooker. Weirdly, and likely to great dissaproval, I see that combo as both more creative and more hard nosed than Kriel and DDA.

On a side note, did you guys notice Dobson shitting his pants at the press conference about Willemse's attempted chicken wing? He mentioned it about 6 times. Jirre, does he see the crazy stuff all the rest of team try all the best of the time?

How you can have regularly selected Gelant as your 15 and then complain about one fluffed chicken wing from Damien is mega strange.

KC

I was a great supporter of Frans Steyna sa full back at the sart of hiscareer. Becaue of an injury to De Villiers in 2007 he wa smoved to inside center - where he was so-so and thatis when he ent tp Fance to play for acin g and launched a amssive assault on the food supply of France,

When he came b ack from France in 2012 I remained a supporter - but Frans became "Fat Fransie" an verwei ght an slow inside center and in the eriod 2013 to 2019 he never played in a single test, In the 2019 RWC he was surprisin gly included in the RWC squad nd in the end used in the main as bench full back,

A to Frans if he stayed at ful b ack - his best position and not move to 12 where he s a mess - as well as keeping his gut under control - he would have been a top class player,and Springbok certainty.

At present he is coaching the Cheetahs - but he may move up the coaching ladder in time to come.

Plum

Dobson is a shit coach and that is the end of the story.

"Klein" Fourie at 39 still in Rassie's selection as a Springbok ??????????

Got to be kidding!

KC

I would rather look at the positive side as to Luan Gullimee - he is obviously a good prospect and need be watched carefully - especially since he is aleady in the Sevens squad and played for the B itzbokke already,

He is also an institution in the under 20 set up. and his appearance at fullback in the Sharks set-up made a huge difference to the stagnant Sharks backline who really had its best performance this year last week. We will have to see him playing further matches for the Sharks, the Blitzbokke and the Under 20;s in June this coing year, At present he is already playing on international level and on that evel he wil have to be assessed and tjis year will determine his future as a potential S prin gbok.

As his family is from the Western Cape maybe th e S tormers missed out on him since he dod nmot go to one of the top schools in the Province - namely Paarl Boishaai and Paaarl Gym. Paul Roose and Oakdale oe 4 of the five top rug by schools in SA, Oakdale is not favored by the S tormers sset-up aand both Pratt and Luan ended up wth the Sharks,

In any event we will see a lot of Luan thsi year and can then make an assessment on him more objectively.

If Markus Muller gets a Springbok cap this year, he will most probably be the youngest ever Springbok at 18 years old??

Mpower

What amazes me is the physical development of kids like Muller and Gillomee- as 18 and 19 year old they have muscles like Tarzab, Could be the result of a prescribed diet and daily gym and field exercises, Sacha was physicallly similar to those two kids when he was a 19 year old,

Those kids has ball sense and reading of games in a very development environment in top rugby schools,

,

Great to see that we are blessed with some very talented youngsters for the future.

Just hope that they are not poached by countries that have real money as opposed to the Rand.

"Could be the result of a prescribed diet and daily gym and field exercises,"

Daily exercise and a prescribed diet of "braaivleis" are more likely the secret :)

AJH, it would be a great loss if our latest talent gets poached. Let’s hope they stay, but that foreign currency is a big magnet.

ts getting ahrder to aoach any players - the English found that out about Sacha/ The fa ct is some playes hs moved to France, Iraly and Scotland - but those were in positions where there was over-supply of players in their respective positions - eg in t he case of props and loosies, However, we also lost some abckline players - which was poor judgement by Eassmus,

But hu far the players we lost were in the mai nn fringe players. .

Uncle Mike, did England try and approach/recruit Sacha? Becs would love that idea ;)