Moodie/Esterhuizen Combination

Forum » Rugby » Moodie/Esterhuizen Combination

Sep 17, 2023, 20:03

The stocks of the Esterhuizen/Moodie combination dropped today.
Neither got the ball much.

Moodie ruined his best opportunity with white line fever, which was a problem for many players in this game. 

Willie Leroux often popped up in the center area to draw and pass for the wingers.
Willemse also seemed to run the ball a lot himself and did not seem to get his centers into the game. 

It must be difficult playing in a backline with Willie Leroux as his multi-tasking often makes other jobs redundant. 

Sep 17, 2023, 20:25

Willie is usually a link between units. I didn't watch the game so can't be certain about those specifics. They have various arrangements. It's actually usually harder for Willie under Erasputin. Very clunky structures. This was always going to be the kind of game where the Boks got loose. I don't we can draw too many conclusions from it. 

Sep 17, 2023, 21:09

So you just copy and paste your match analysis template, without watching the game...

Sep 18, 2023, 07:58


From postings by Mozart and l'Gande Merdse it si obvious they do not watch matches and when they do they have weird impressions they get from what happened in matches.   

Now lets get back to the Esterhuizen Moodie combination and see why it did not work out well yesterday.   The problem has nothing to do with either Willemse aqnd Le Roux.    It had everything to do with Etserhuizen and the same problems encountered yesterday were present in 2019 as well.

From his junior yreazrs Esterhuizen had one benefit and a few negati ves that will always make him a frnge player when it comes to selection.    The only positive is he is physically very strong and carry balls well in traffic the negatives are as follows:-

*    He is pace-deficient and can be a liability when it comes to defense and  flowing attacking play.   When making a break he often cause ball possession losses like happened yesterday.   If that case where eh broke a tackle he ended up losing ball possession near to the tryline.  In the case ocf De Allendxe he would have sc ored tghat try or c aused the sided to retain possession and score a try.   

*    Esterhuizen from the fcirst time I saw him playing had a problem with ball recipient.   It happened yesterday just beforfe the end of the match again .   He knocked o/n a ball and the attack ended.    This happened against weak opposition - if it happened against stronger opposition it could lead to catastrophic results for his team.

*     he is not good in passing balls either and that neutralize functioning of the no 13 center..

*    Pace-deficiency  has a detrimental impact in his defense ability,   Against weaker teams it is not as evident as it is against stronger teams.   His missed tackle of the AB wing in the warming up test is a typical example of what happens when it com  to defense.  

I think Esterhuizen was left out of the 2019 WC squad for the same reasons as was always evident in him.   He is a fringe player when it comes to international rugby and will always a remain a fringe player. when it comes to international rugby.   He will start in the game against Tonga - but would not be selected in the match against Ireland and in the play-offs,

I am sorry for Moodie after yesterday - he is a star backline player in both the outside center and wing positions.   He did not shine yesterday and the problem in the main was at 12,


Sep 18, 2023, 09:27

Yes unfortunately in a game where they should have shone and pushed for a starting spot they did not

Was disappointing

Willie had a crap game

Sep 18, 2023, 10:53

They pushed for their starting spots against the All Blacks and Wales...good opposition. And they both passed with flying colors.

This game means nothing, to anyone.

Say they each scored a bunch of tries in this game...would it move the meter 1mm? 

No, of course not, it was free-for-all...a nothing game against a sub-club-level side.

Sep 18, 2023, 11:14

The AB forwards collapsed in that game and the backline could th rive in that game.    

Sorry - there were instances yesterday where especially Esterhuizen had opportunities to shine and he fluffed it against a weak team.  In the famous A B  test he missed a tackle badly on the AB wing who ran through the  tackle attempt easily.   - just an example to mention. Against  the A B's  his real perfformance would have been rated as 7/10 yesterday it was less than 6,5 out of 10.   I  do not think the coaching trust him enough to give him game time against  stronger teams  in the WC and think he will not be selected against Ireland and in the  play-offs unless De Allende is injured.   

Personally I think that Willemse will make a better center than Esterhuizen is.   When Kriel was injured in 2019 the coaching staff called up Willemse.  - not Esterhuizen - and I think that situation still prevails .

Sep 18, 2023, 11:14


Sep 18, 2023, 11:20

The match against Romania proved nothing.

Sep 18, 2023, 11:29

yes, Mike

We know. You're the objective rugby fan who never changes his mind regardless of new information.

Basically, AE can only play himself into contention in games where our forwards fail and he has to rescue the game singlehandedly.

If he doesn't shine against a shit team, where it's a big free-for-all...then he's not good enough. If he shines against good teams when our forwards are dominant, he's not good enough either. 

Anything that DDA does well, ever, in any game and against any opposition, is undeniable proof that DDA is the man.

We know.

Sep 18, 2023, 11:29

Don't believe Rasneib have any understanding of the backline talent in their hands, also don't believe the pair qualify to coach such an abundance of skill, speed and talent. Eddie Jones would be licking his chops at the prospect of coaching the current Boks.

Sep 18, 2023, 11:31

I agree, Deeny.

It's packed with future stars right now.

Sep 18, 2023, 11:40

Oh we agree?,,,hahaha

My backline is not a lot different to yours the only difference being Williams ahead of Faf.

The Boks have never had as much talent, skill and speed in ALL of their history. Problem is you need someone who's familiar with driving a Ferrari.....not an ox-wagon.

Sep 18, 2023, 11:44

Esterhuizen and Moodie in a nothing game should have ripped the defence to shreds

They did not, which was very disappointing

Sep 18, 2023, 12:04

The truth will dawn on the Esterhuizen fans that he is not any better than Allende. Allende I think is a bit faster, is a better fetcher and has better skills. Not much in it but the edge goes to Allende who of course also is more experienced at test level. 

I thought Willie got better and better as the match wore on. The way he timed his pass to put away Mpimpi was superb. Mpimpi is under rated.

Faf was a revelation at fly half. The way he can riffle out long passes from the fly half position opens up opportunities for our backline. He has a very adequate boot as well. Small as he is his defence is amazing. 

I would like to see Willemse at 13. Moodie on the wing. Willie at 15. 


Faf,  Libbok Kolbe, Allende, Willemse, Moodie and Willie. 

Reserves Pollard, Williams, Kriel. 

I have to say I am close to going with Mpimpi. He is a very good all round wing. Adds a bit of grunt as well. 

Wonder why ou Deus didn't watch the game?

Sep 18, 2023, 12:13

One thing I don't get is why some people are down on Willemse.

The guy is in my top 3 at the moment.

I watch him and I see quality...pedigree.

Beeno, Faf reminds of those tumbling midgets in the circus. He makes a tackle and is back on his feet almost instantly. Little legend as far as I'm concerned.

Sep 18, 2023, 12:23

Willemse has grown as a player, still work in progress and is yet to reach maturity but he adds to the dimension of the attack. I'd have him ahead of Willie.

Sep 18, 2023, 12:39

Willemse is pure class - has it all, has amazing feet and is physical

Likes to be in the action, always looking to be involved

Sep 18, 2023, 12:46

I think the backline against the Irish would be asx follows:-

15   Le Roux

14   Kolbe

13   Kriel   -  if I pick th e team he would net be in  it.

12   De  Allende 

11   Arendse

10   Willemse

  0    De Klerrk

Bench    Libbock and Hendriks 

Suroprisingly I may favor moving De Allende to 13, Pick Willemse or Esterhuizedn at 12 and put Libbok in the starting  line-up and iof corcusnmatnces permiot kewep a bench position  opewmn fdor Pollarde.   


Sep 18, 2023, 13:51

Team to play Ireland should be

15. Willemse

14. Kolbe

13. Moodie

12. de Allende

11. Mapimpi

10. Libbok

9. Faf

1. Kitshoff

2. Mbonambi

3. Malherbe

4. Etzebeth

5. RG

6. Kolisi


8. Wiese

16. Fourie 17. Ox 18. Nyakane 19. Kleyn 20. Kwagga 21. Williams 22. Pollard 23. Esterhuizen

Sep 18, 2023, 14:49

I like that team!!!

Oct 01, 2023, 21:57

After today's game, they must surely have played themselves into contention. Moodie especially, as he is much more effective on attack than Kriel.

Oct 02, 2023, 00:50

So let’s get real .. .as usual the mob missed everything. Esterhuizen did far better than Dud Allende has done in any WC game. Bottled up the midfield, broke the defence on every run. Moody likewise was dangerous ball in hand. And defensively they bottled up the Tongan midfield who did nothing gaining 8 and 5 metres respectively. 

What frigging game were you  watching? Esterhozen averaging 4.5 metres a run, something Dave said wasn’t a realistic expectation, beating a defender every other run.

Think of what he could accomplish if the Boks were coached to use the offload.

G WilliamsW034390010
C MoodieC023532210
A EsterhuizenC0412540500

Oct 02, 2023, 05:06

DDA will be there bumbling around in the quarters, don't worry. Kriel very likely too.

Oct 02, 2023, 06:45

Yeah, I'm heartbroken for AE.

It's actually nuts to think what he's done with so few chances.

He had a ball ripped/dislodged from his hand during one run. That was it. That was the biggest mistake he made all game.

No brain freeze. No chewing up ground by crab running. No shyte passes. No wasting of overlaps. No defensive blunders. No dying with the ball.

He had the Boks momentum every time he touched it. Literally every time.

A neat, dominant, and smart performance by who is clearly the best 12 in the game.

DDA ran over a 90 year-old Sexton twice. That was his major achievement.

AE runs over everybody and is so clearly smarter than DDA. He has rugby instinct. He doesn't need to think, he just does. Which is kinda the standard...or supposed to be.

It's actually hilarious to me to think that some chaps here are of the opinion that France would prefer to see AE at 12 ahead of DDA.

The truth is that every single team we may come up against during the knockout stages is hoping we play DDA instead.

Oct 02, 2023, 09:12

No brain freeze. No chewing up ground by crab running. No shyte passes. No wasting of overlaps. No defensive blunders. No dying with the ball.

You forget to say "No kicking" 

Scroll back to his last game. Gives me the heebeejeepers when I see a centre kick when he's suppose to run.

Oct 02, 2023, 09:38

After watching the match last night I am sure that Esterhuizedn is not up to standard.   His attacks led to nowhere and his pace-deficiency, ball handing and non-existent ball protection art breakdowns are not acceptable on internaional level.

Oct 02, 2023, 10:24

Esterhuizen beats defenders by running through them - which is good but it’s not a skill thing

That’s against Tonga it’s not going to happen against the top tier sides in knock out rugby stages

Oct 02, 2023, 11:11

Here is the defining line, Dave...

How many times did AE kill the ball last night? 

When it was to go through his hand he was flawless. When he was to run with it he made ground at will and positioned the ball perfectly every time.

Damien has played similar-level teams previously but never performed on average as well as AE has. We can keep making comparisons but it's safe to say that AE has had the best performances at 12 this year...easily. And recent history matters.

This year, DDA has only really played Ireland, and he was poor. He ran over an old man once or twice but was a liability in numerous other instances in the game. Killing momentum, fumbling plays, and being, as usual, rather absent-minded at crucial moments. I'm getting Joe Biden vibes from him lately...CTE?

AE has played everybody else and has been far better every time.

He was quiet against Romani but didn't make blunders. That's literally the worst one can say about his performances this year. He made the Kiwi backs his bitch, slapped Tonga around last night, and dealt with everybody else with equal measures of indifference and ease. It's abundantly clear that the backs are more settled with Andre The Giant there. He's so much bigger than DDA, exponentially more poised, and far better at operating as part of a unit. You can see that he's thinking about the other guys. I never get that sense with DDA.

AE is far ahead of DDA right now. And with Moodie beside him, I'm calling it the best 12/13 pairing in the world.

The other guys here know what I'm talking about. They think DDA/Kriel and get this negative feeling entering their minds. Memories of failures, letdowns...frustration! They think AE/Moodie...and it's Hell YEAH!!!

Oct 02, 2023, 12:00

Allende 105 kg. Esterhuizen 113kg.

I don't think there is such a big difference between the two. Maybe try Esterhuizen against France. Have Allende on the bench. He can cover 12,12 and wing. 

I would like to see Willemse and his team mates learn to receive a pass after Willemse has made a break a bit better. We need to put our speedsters away. 

Oct 02, 2023, 12:09

Esterhuizen is immensely more powerful. Damian is weak in the upper body. All very well established facts. Watching Kerevi run over Damian repeatedly was the last straw. Esterhuizen on the other hand stopped him in his tracks and comprehensively shut down the Wallaby attack, twice.

Oct 02, 2023, 12:12

No Beeno the real sizes are De Allende 110kg and Esterhuizen is 118kg

Plum your take on DA is misguided he does exactly the same as AE but has the experience to now cement his selection ahead of AE

DA had a good first half against Ireland and had that poor moment in the second half - does that define him as a player - no it does not

Kerevi has NEVER run over DA that’s a lie Doos as per usual

Oct 02, 2023, 13:48

I do not believe what is written by people on this site.  Either theydo not want to see actual things and  dream up sone other incidents.   

In 2007 I went to France to see the Springboks play in the WC.  A f ter a goood game ag ainst EVng land I went to Lonfdon and from their to Scotland and returned to London on the Friday before going to France to watch the Springboks playing Tonga,   It was the worst game I ever saw the Springboks play against a sminor team like Tonga.   The whole team malfunctioned and ten minutes before th e end Tonga was still leading  the Springboks by 8 points.= the Springboks was lucky to win the game in the end.

So back to the test last night - it was only marginally better because the Springboks scored  individual  tries and nevcer fell behind in the game like happened in 2007.    Both the forwards and the backs malfunctioned in the match.   Pollard did well in his return match and it cannot be said of the rest of the backline.   Tonga did not score tries against Scotland or Ireland..   It was in fact a miracle they did not score more.   There was a string  of penalties given away and defense was not aggressive - but passive.    

One of the key functions of a 12 is to ensure the defense outside of him functions and he needed to have the pace to do cover defense as well.    The defense o th e backline outside of Pollard was ineffective and in fact sub-standard.    When an opposition  backliner is tackled the rest of the backline players should  try and effect a turnover at the breakdown.   There was  no such attempt ever by the Springbok backline players - Esterhuizen  never tried anything like that - he was standing around behind breakdown points neither forming a new dense structure or doing anything but talk.   Maybe it was a good thing - when he  did try to recover opposition balls at breakdowns in the past he  was regularly  penalized.

The backline passing game last night was substandard - that was why the Springbok backline could not really break the Tonga defensive line.   I can go on and on about defense.  Must say the game was so defective I stopped watching  it 10 minutes before the - the constant clueless game played caused it,    I hate to watch BS on a rugby field.   

There were better players like Du TNoit, De Allende and Snyman not playing  last night and I doubt not they would be better than the  playes  last night..                .   


Oct 02, 2023, 14:00

So Esterhuizen is not going to break the defence against ‘the top tier sides’…..gosh, so NZ is no longer top tier

Oct 02, 2023, 14:03

The fact is Esterhozen is playing at a great disadvantage….his long suite, brilliant offloading seems to be pretty much banned by our coaches. But even with that skill on ice waiting for more enlightened coaching….he is doing the Dud Allende thing way better than Dud Allende.

And he has a big advantage, he isn’t brain dead.

Oct 02, 2023, 14:05

Listen Mozart

Stop talking BS - one incident in one game does not make any difference.   I was talking about last nights BS anyway.   


Oct 02, 2023, 15:02

I wasn’t commenting on what you said Clever…I was commenting on what Dave said.  See you doctor and get evaluated.

Oct 02, 2023, 15:48


According to you, you watched AE agains the ABs, Wales, Australia, and Tonga...and there is nothing to suggest he's worthy of the 12 spot.

It's incredible that you could see it that way.

Please, give us bullet points, or clear references to games and incidents in games that makes you arrive at this assessment.

Seriously, I'm not being difficult, I would genuinely like to know.

Enlighten me.

Oct 02, 2023, 16:00

Yes he will break the defence against a top tier side every now and again like DA does but certainly not at will as you imply

All this talk of AE and not one single try assist or try himself so my point is why should he replace the experienced DA

There is absolutely no reason

If by some chance he did replace DA Id be more than happy with that but no ways would I drop DA for all kinds of reasons none more so than good current form and experience

Oct 02, 2023, 20:41

Remember when DDA was scoring the lowest amount of tries for any good 12 with that amount of caps?

Then we were told it's not the modern 12's role to score tries.

The modern 12 exists in the space between a rock and a kidney stone. It's all so tight. The modern 12 is there to hit the line and build momentum for others to score off I recall.

But the difference, AE has an extremely low rate of doing stupid shit or just completely failing to act. DDA's is high. And when you add that to that the fact that he kills so many plays, things don't look pretty.

It's really not that difficult to see the difference between the two. One is dependable...the other isn't.

Oct 02, 2023, 20:48

Esterhuizen was a bit one-dimensional, alla-Delande - but he is a bigger Delande.
If the pass is not on, it is better for the inside center to crash-ball.

Esterhuizen often got the ball in traffic, but completely out-tractored the Delande. 
Yet, we have seen in other games, Esterhuizen offers more playmaking than Delande 1.0

Oct 02, 2023, 21:07

Andre was a bit more limited, until he went to Japan. I say a bit more limited, than himself from 2016 onwards. The thing is that it took the Japanese to bring to light his ability, because South African rugby is too stupid to see it for themselves. Esterhuizen attacks the line, Damian does a little leg drive, but is dumped regularly when he actually tries to attack the line. Useless. 

Oct 02, 2023, 21:12

Well you lot keep banging on about all the mistakes or wrong options DA takes - to me it’s all bullshit

You are wrong Shark - DA is 110kg but shorter than AE who is 118kg

They pretty much have the same physical impact on the game

Both have good skill sets but know that most of their work is taken up in the trenches as that is the modern way

It’s why Aki is doing well right now it’s why Kerevi was doing that a year ago and it’s why France rely on Danty and England are effective when Tuilagi is on fire at 12 which is not that often

Oct 02, 2023, 21:15

Wouldn't it be great if Esterhuizen was so much better than Allende as some imagine. He would be the greatest center in the Workd by far. Hahahahahaha.

Oaks please try and keep your feet on the ground about Esterhuizen.The more you sound off the bigger the exaggerations. It's like the fish that got away. It gets bigger with every iteration! :D

Oct 02, 2023, 21:18

Damian ranks bottom of every metric, so Esterhuizen would only have to be a total bum to be better than Damian. Damian is literally the worst 12 I have ever seen. From day 1 to present day. There was never a higher point than the past few seasons, but it's only now the clown show audience disapprove. That's the only laughing point in all of this. 

Oct 02, 2023, 21:25

Yep Beeno DA is a class act, regarded the best 12 in the game last year and rightly so

In AE we have one hell of a back up

It’s why I would love to have seen a AE and DA pairing at some point

We should have had a look at that against Romania

Oct 02, 2023, 21:31

regarded the best 12 in the game last year and rightly so

By who exactly? 

Oct 03, 2023, 07:39

DDA made three absolute clangers against the Irish.

I'm not talking about forced errors here. I'm talking about unforced errors that are down to bad reflexes and slow instinctive thinking.

1) The kick to to corner being one. We had the ball, were in their territory, we had momentum...he kicks it to the corner and handed them the ball back.

2) The dropped pass from Willemse. A regulation catch. Willemse's reaction tells you all you need to know. He was fuming. It was that type of "you always do this shit" anger. It was the most disappointment-originated anger I've seen from one of our players in a long time.

3) DDA refused to help Jessie at the ruck. Literally stood there and watched the ball get turned over.

Those are the three massive mistakes he made during the game. Each costing us swathes of momentum.

Keep in mind that this was a monumental battle of a game where possession was paramount against the dangerous Irish and territory was more gold than gold.

There were more errors but those 3 ticked me off the most.

Now, let's assume we allow all our backs 3 clangers per game...where would we be?

That's 3 x 7...21 unforced clangers?

We'd lose to Samoa with an unforced error rate like that.

AE doesn't do that stuff. He's solid. He knows when to release and when to hit. The entire line seems more confident when he's there.

Oct 03, 2023, 07:57

2) The dropped pass from Willemse. A regulation catch.

Willemse is way too fast for DDA to keep up with. Feed him a slow pass that he can run at the nearest defender, don't expect him to pick up on and slot into a dynamic unplanned attack. The software is too buggy, the hardware too slow.

Oct 03, 2023, 08:17

In 2013, we had a tough test against Wales. It was very tight, and the moment that broke the game open was a ball fielded by Fourie. He was swarmed by defenders, and pinned in completely. He had the awareness the scoop a sly ball back to Du Preez. They both had the presence of mind to sum up the situation and combine seamlessly. I have to be honest with you, I cannot recall the last time I saw something like that from the Boks. It is surely a very long time ago. You cannot substitute for intelligence. We need to be playing smarter players. If we look man-for-man, the Erasmus era ranks as one of the lowest rugby IQ Bok teams ever assembled. Worse still, it gets worse with each passing season. He doesn't value rugby IQ. He values obedience to the script. However, we find ourselves in an awkward place of ponderousness, and reliance on speed to make something work. Not too dissimilar to how Deans relied on Digby to just "do stuff" to make any kind of attacking impetus. 

Skip to 01:17:00 for the Du Preez try. 

Oct 03, 2023, 09:03

"The software is too buggy, the hardware too slow."

It's very buggy. I just don't know how some chaps here don't see it. To me it's obvious. 

I begin to think I'm biased. But if I look at these clangers and brain freezes...I can't help but feel that even if I didn't know who the player was, my opinion would not change.

Oct 03, 2023, 09:23

Having watched that second half again DA only messed up once in the entire game

It was not the pass to Willemse, that was Willemse not picking up that DA was running an inside line, it’s probably why Willemse threw the ball on the ground

DA had a good game against Ireland

Oct 03, 2023, 09:25

Saddex with the lazy stamp of approval. 

Oct 03, 2023, 09:26

Doos DA was named by 3 different rugby pundits as they’re 12 of the year. Three pundits that get paid to write about rugby, something you could only dream of doing

I’d fucking pay you to shut the fuck up as you are the most negative, ignorant and irritating rugby follower I have ever come across

You are a complete insult to the Boks

Oct 03, 2023, 09:37

Three pundits? Who exactly? Oh, and nice to see that Habana has endorsed the blistering attacker that is Kriel, who also gets a nod of approval for his solid defence. Oh dear, looks like we don't need Am afterall. :D

You need to Log in to reply.
Back to top