Most underrated/ Most overrated Boks…by position.

Forum » Rugby » Most underrated/ Most overrated Boks…by position.

Jan 03, 2023, 19:50

15 Gio Aplon/Thinus Delport


14 Brent Russell/Odwa Ndungane


13 Marius Joubert/JJ Englebrecht


12 Adi Jacobs/ Dud Allende


11 Breyton Paulse/Mapimpi


10 Morne Steyn/ Patrick Lambie


11 Faf de Klerk/Reinach


1 The Beast/ Christo Bezuidenhout


2 Von Biljon/ James Dalton


3 BJ Botha/Marcel van der Merwe


4 Eben Etzebeth/ Quintin Davids


5 Victor Matfield/ Lomp


6 Schalk Burger/ Luke Watson


7 Joe van Niekerk/Dud Toit


8 Duane Vermeulen/ Teichman


…….. 


Just for understanding overrated means value vs perceived value. In a case like Etzebeth perceived value is high…but there are plenty of naysayers. In the case of a guy like Adi Jacobs who had the best centre stats in the 2008 TN, he wasn’t a great, but much more competent than he was depicted.


So under and over valued mean exactly that…no more,



Jan 03, 2023, 21:42

15. Willie / Montgomery

14. Nkosi / Paulse

13. Japie Mulder / Adi Useless Jacobs

12. Waynand Olivier / Braam v Straaten

11. Pieter Rossouw / Aplon

10. Pretorious / Morne Steyn

9. Hougaard / Ross Cronje

1. Kitshoff / Rob Kempson

2. Aker vd Merwe / Drotske

3. Mujati / BJ Botha

4. Flip vd Merwe / Johan Muller

5. Jason Jenkins / Orie

6. Luke Watson / Frans Louw

7. JL du Preez / Mostert

8. Dan du Preez / Adriaan Richter

Jan 03, 2023, 21:48

Adi Jacobs was always utterly useless and no ways did he have the best centre stats ever

There was a reason his nickname was revolving door

Jan 03, 2023, 22:16

Not true…in the 2008 TN Jacobs had the best stats, including defense….he tackled low and securely. He scored 7 tries in  34 tests which certainly trumps Dud’s 9 in 70 tests, granted he played 13 a lot.


He, Paulse, Aplon and a bunch of our smaller players were never given a fair shake. Kolbe changed all that and Arendse who is essentially an Aplon clone has been looked at objectively.


As for Paulse who you call overrated, he scored 26 tries in 62 tests and Jonah Lomu never scored one against him,


Jan 03, 2023, 22:26

Moz you can’t have a little guy like Jacobs playing as a test centre

I’m sorry but he was useless. He was an awful piss poor selection

Kolbe is a wing who these days is built like a body builder. He has openly said the only way he could play test rugby was to bulk up which he did in a very impressive way

Paulse never marked Lomu?

Jan 03, 2023, 22:34

Actually he did:


Cape Town - A knee injury has saved Breyton Paulse from marking the monstrous wing Jonah Lomu when the Stormers take on the Hurricanes at Newlands on Friday.

Although Paulse will not be on the field, he has some valuable advice to the man who has to fill his boots on the wing, the 27-year old Gus Theron.

"Make a nuisance of yourself. Don't give him any space. He hates it when you are on his toes all the time," Paulse said.

Some people may question Paulse's competence in giving advice on how to stop a man that is 45kg heavier and 25cm taller than him, but these sceptics only have to consider the fact that Lomu has never scored a try when Paulse was his direct opponent.

That includes numerous Tests against the Springboks as well as three Super 12 matches. The last time Lomu crossed the Stormers' line was in 1998.

"I remember that match very well. I was on the bench when Lomu took Justin Swart, turned him upside down and planted him head-first into the ground. It was a terrifying sight," Paulse said.

Paulse also believes it is a good idea to put a couple of kicks behind Lomu. "He has never liked turning around, but you should not make the mistake of kicking onto Christian Cullen (fullback). He is extremely dangerous in broken play," he warned.

Lomu is regularly used as battering ram in the midfield and Paulse believes it to be of the utmost importance for the Stormers to keep their defensive lines intact.

"Lomu is especially used in the midfield where he can draw three or four defenders with ease. Tana Umaga's power is also used to the full. He is often used as a fourth loose forward."

A final bit of advice from Paulse is for the Stormers not to concentrate on Lomu too much because the legion of other good players in the Hurricanes backline would play havoc with their Super 12 chances if they are not watched closely.

………

But Paulse’s real trick which he cleverly didn’t reveal was to get between Lomu and the passer. He had the speed off the mark and the top end to make that work. Paulse is the only player I saw catch Cullinan from behind.

Jan 03, 2023, 23:14

I was never a Paulse fan as he was small and got blown away at times

While Kolbe and Arendse are small both have made the most of the gym and punch way above their weights

The same applies to Edwill vd Merwe playing for the Lions

These little guys have massive hearts

Paulse, Aplon etc were just too small

Jan 03, 2023, 23:31

Aplon in 2010 thumped Nonu, Muliaina, So'oialo backwards without giving a millimeter. Aplon was the strongest of these smaller backs. The coloureds are especially strong, well above their weight bracket. However, Arendse is a D- talent. Kolbe is okay, not weak. Paulse was excellent. He was also smart.

I've got to laugh at Saffex's list.

  1. Pretorius over Morné
  2. Watson over Louw 
  3. Mujati over BJ Botha
  4. JL dP over Mostert
  5. Nkosi over Paulse
This Saffex guy is hilarious! Someone, please give him a big red nose to complete the act! :D

Jan 03, 2023, 23:32

Mozart

This must be close to 20 000 items you wrote about De Allende and Du Toit.    Have you not any other rugby issues to discuss?    O yes - there is also BS spreading by you about Erasmus and De Kock to add that would mean another 5 thousand nonsense you prate about.   I looked at that list and the underrated players did not even play in the position you claim they did.          

I must agree with Dave though - throughout his career Jacobs had serious defense problems and was indeed a revolving door.                  

Jan 03, 2023, 23:44

Have you not any other rugby issues to discuss?  

How about Morné, Frans, Meyer, 2015... 

Jan 04, 2023, 00:17

I’d take JL du Preez with one leg over powder puff Mostert

Damn right I’d take Pretorious over useless Morne

Watson over Louw is a no brainer as is Mujati over useless BJ

Nkosi over Paulse every day of the week

None of those decisions are even close especially JL vs Mostert

That’s like comparing Danie Gerber with Adi Jacobs

Jan 04, 2023, 00:19

Nope this has become Clever’s persistent bleat. My response is a version of Gordon Gekko’s immortal quote in Wall Street 2: ‘stop lying about me and I’ll stop telling the truth about you’.

In short, the moment the Toifosis and the Allendistas stop making up imaginary things these two players do and see them objectively, my job is done,


.


Jan 04, 2023, 00:21

That’s like comparing Danie Gerber with Adi Jacobs

Nah, more like Danie Gerber to JJ Engelbrecht :silly:

Man, what flub you are Saffex. Pretorius over Morné, Watson over Schalk and Louw, Nkosi over Paulse, JJ over Gerber... I think you must be winding us up, it simply can't be true that you believe what you are saying! 

Jan 04, 2023, 00:22

JL with one leg we can work with, JL with hands of stone is bit of an issue. Dave the prophet has looked at these twins and totally rejected them. Either the prophet is a false prophet or these chaps aren’t test quality, or most likely, both things are true,

Jan 04, 2023, 01:16

Absolutely nothing wrong with the du Preez twins hands

Unfortunately the prophet has fucked up here and there, the man is not perfect

His biggest fuck up is not investing in the du Preez twins, followed by a lack of investment in Gelant, Fassi, Tambwe, JVR, Esterhuizen, Serfontein, Libbok, Nohamba, Thomas du Toit, Wilco Louw, Dweba, Jason Jenkins, Tsituka, Elrigh Louw and Roos

Other fuck ups have been investing in Frans Steyn, Orie, Mostert, Fourie and Vermeulen of late.

Jan 04, 2023, 11:15

"Paulse is the only player I saw catch Cullinan from behind."

I saw Clive Rice catch Cullinan from behind once. It was at the Wanderers and Rice caught up with Cullinan to tell him to enjoy his walk back to the pavilion.

Jan 04, 2023, 11:16

The Du Preez twins have amazingly good hands for such big men. Anyone who doesn't see this either hasn't watched them or is too biased to notice.

Jan 04, 2023, 13:25

Exactly Rooi, some of their offloads for Sale and even play for the A side a few months ago were sublime

But it’s that freakish strength that sets them apart

Listening to Austin Healey’s commentary the other night he was saying they were freaks of nature. They are so hard to stop

Rassie’s biggest fuck up was not investing in them more. Tough to break into the trio of Kolisi, PSDT and Vermeulen with Kwagga on the bench

But with Vermeulen all but done, Wiese has cracked it but I can’t help but think the likes of the du Preez twins and Roos are even better

I rate Wiese for his power but there is nothing else - nothing subtle about him. So he sells us short as a ball playing linking 8, he will give us the go forward in traffic

Jan 04, 2023, 13:28

It's very easy to crack to crack the loose trio if performance is taken into consideration. Kwotalisi is nothing more than insurance against external pressure, and Steph is just a sloppy yes man who consistently ranks around 27th amongst top flanks. Wiese, Dan d/P, Kwagga. That's our strongest combination. Drop loafer Lood with hands of stone for Mostert (assuming RG is not present and playing well) and we have a serious pack for the first time since 2013.

Jan 04, 2023, 13:40

Doos go back to bed your input has about as much credibility as a dogs turd

Weakling Mostert for Lood bwhaaaahaaaa. Rassie has brains you don’t. Rassie loves Lood and uses Mostert as a stop gap

Personally Mostert would not smell my Bok squad of 100 players. I prefer real men as my locks and blindsides. Players with size and grunt

Jan 04, 2023, 15:50

Lood isn't a strong man, he is a tall heavy man. He isn't very athletic, and has poor endurance. Against explosive athletes he is simply blown away. He is more often than not brushed aside, driven sideways, or driven forward by two teammates for a few centimeters. We must be the only team in world rugby who doesn't have a core of carriers who can hit the line without support driven them forward. How sad. 

Jan 04, 2023, 15:59

Bullshit

Jan 04, 2023, 20:10

There is some bull to this excrement, yes. That bull is none other than Erasmus. 

Jan 04, 2023, 20:15

Rassie is our best coach since readmission

Jan 04, 2023, 20:30

Erasmus is not a coach. He is Erasputin, a foul and lingering miasma infecting Bok rugby. Nienaber plays the part of the influenced and discardable able Romanov.

Jan 04, 2023, 21:56

Eenoog is Koning!

Jan 04, 2023, 22:31

Rassie is our best coach since readmission

Jan 04, 2023, 23:25

No, he is not. 

Jan 04, 2023, 23:30

Yes he is only Kitch and Mallet challenge him but he tops the list

Jan 04, 2023, 23:46

Kitch had a very cushy ride. As Joost said on ESPN, Kitch was not a very good technical coach. He had a team that came together at the right time, all he had to do was keep them focused and motivated. Fitness helped a lot. That was one factor that Stransky claimed was the decisive factor. Mallett was good for two seasons only. Though, according to Michael, it was all the direct result of Carel. Jake is our best coach. Erasputin is somewhere near the middle-bottom. Jake didn't have the luxury of the worst Kiwi and Wallaby sides of all time! 

Jan 05, 2023, 00:48

Rassie, Mallett and Kitch have been our best

The next tier would be Jake, Meyer - who was a huge disappointment after such high expectations, Ian Mac who had no say on the selection of his squad

The kak ones were Snor, Coetzee, Viljoen, Markgraaf, Carel and Straueli

Neinaber is not a coach just like Carel never was

Jan 05, 2023, 00:58

Wishful thinking. Erasmus could never succeed against the caliber of teams Jake faced. Even in such a mediocre era of test rugby, Erasputin still can't rise above his foes. Having to use every dirty trick in the book to get some kind of edge over better coaches. 

Jan 05, 2023, 01:55

Ah bullshit Rassie is twice the coach Jake is

Far better technically and a far better player manager

It’s not even close

Jan 05, 2023, 02:09

You're right, it's not even close. Erasputin is a manipulator and farce. Perhaps we should be calling Nienaber Eddie Jones, as that's essentially what he is to Erasputin. It's pretty funny that the nonsense thrown at Jake ends up being what Erasputin is. 

Jan 05, 2023, 02:56

Fuck me you are still fucking stupid enough trying to convince us Neinaber is a coach

Where do you suck this shit from - your imagination clearly

Neinaber has a zero record as a coach other than his few games for the Boks of late

So where do you suck your utter horse shit from that Neinaber is a coach you delusional prick?

Jan 05, 2023, 03:23

Jannie Duplessis was totally overrated. He could scrum, but apart from that was useless. A total liability on defence, he would actually block his own players from making tackles.

Ollie Leroux was a good prop. 

Jan 05, 2023, 03:33

Loved Ollie le Roux

Jan 05, 2023, 09:36

Wishful thinking. Erasmus could never succeed against the caliber of teams Jake faced. Even in such a mediocre era of test rugby, Erasputin still can't rise above his foes. Having to use every dirty trick in the book to get some kind of edge over better coaches. 

White never succeded against any caliber teams - fact is his team even lost 52-0 against the Aussies and 33-6 against the AB's.  He was the 2007 coach of the team that struggled against Tonga and wherever he went - after starting  off well enough initially - in the subsequent years he flopped as Springbok coach - same as what happened anywhere he coached.

If one categorize coaches from 1 to 10 I would put White in position 5 - with the following being above him:-

1   Erasmus

2    Christie

3    Du Plessis

4    Mallett 

5    White

6    McIntosh

7 - 10   De Villiers, Meyer, Coetzee, Viljoen, Straueli  *

*   Four of those - I may exclude De Villiers from that list.  


  

Jan 05, 2023, 09:50

Another l'Grande Merde fable.

Kitch was not a good technical coach - what is a technical coach anyway?   Throughout his career White was a forward technical coach - but he failed as a backline coach, because he was clueless about backline play.   Meyer was a technical failure - so was Coetzee, De Villiers and Straueli.

Another important aspect of coaching that must always be considered in respect of coaching is team selection and the gaining of co-operation with players and the public.   That was and always will be important in successful coaching.   In the case of most coaches that went awry totally.   Both White and Meyer plus some of the coaches I refer to above were total disasters in that respect.           

Jan 05, 2023, 11:07

The only good technical coaches we have are White and Meyer. It sounds like you want to argue against Joost. Go ahead and tell us how stupid he is... 

Jan 05, 2023, 12:34

Dimwit

White had never any idea about backline coaching and in that respect was totally technically inadequate.   Meyer was a total failure in coaching and that was proved by his firing by Stade Francais and departure from coaching after that.   Whereas White concentrated only on forward play his backline selections were always deficient and that is still the case with his selection of players of the Bulls at present.   Meyer was only selecting players from the past who by 2015 were abject failures.

White was definitely a better coach than Meyer - but that was still below real Springbok coaches - who had an impact on the initial successes achieved by their successors.    The one issue where both White and Meyer failed badly is the limitation of coaching to 10-man rugby and usage of backline players for defense only.  That is why the scoring of tries was always the result of individual players like Habana and even Jean de Villiers.

                

  

Jan 05, 2023, 13:26

White and Meyer are the only two Bok coaches to add sophistication to the Bok game. Meyer was actually several years ahead of the trend in the structures he implemented. There is no evidence of Erasputin doing anything other than dragging down the attack of every team he has coached. 

Jan 05, 2023, 16:20

Harrassmiss has simply taken us back to traditional Bok rugby. I shouldn’t be unhappy because while Clever was calling for seuntjies running gloriously through open space, I steadfastly called for us to rediscover our rugby roots.

Harrassmiss with massive help from Nienaber did that. But what I didn’t expect was he would abandon all forms of attacking backline play other than the counter attack. I also didn’t expect his attack on the officials which has lowered our standing in the rugby world.

Jan 05, 2023, 17:02

I have been watching the older tests in the late 90s and early 00s... we are not much better than the 2003 side under Straeuli. The thing that strikes me is how discipline has regressed. Petulance on the field has increased again, and sloppiness too. I recall Jake dropping Schalk for persistent yellow cards; he said "we are not going to be a team of sorrys". Erasputin seems to have stirred up the South African victim complex to distract from the actual job at hand. He is creating so many distractions to keep the players entrenched in his message and avoid confronting and dealing with the flaws and problems with the coaching. Who can we honestly say has gotten better under Erasputin? Pollard? Am? Mapimpi? Watch a few of the 2018 RC tests, look at the team since... they are less fit, less sharp, much less potent. Am looked set to blow everyone away at 13. Statistically, he has regressed to the point where Kriel has bettered him. Even Eben has not looked his best this season. Erasputin is not bringing out the best in anybody. It's a different method of accomplishing the same thing as Straeuli. The repercussions of that lived long after Straeuli was gone, what will future coaches have to deal with because of the selfishness of Erasputin? 

Jan 05, 2023, 18:01

"Harrassmiss has simply taken us back to traditional Bok rugby."

Not quite...he plays the statistics way better than anyone before him.

Jan 05, 2023, 19:32

Does he? How so? Exactly what does Erasputin do that is better than any coach before him? This team is mediocre in every possible way. He has taken traditional strengths, such as defence and the maul and regressed them. We are going into a World Cup year with a very suspect foundation. 

Jan 05, 2023, 21:00

Well is the "good"statistics game going to pull us thru?? Not so sure about that as we are in a position where we can't beat the top inform teams like Ireland and France.....England,s win is overampt, as Eng was not even close to there full potential.....but the 2 wins ( Italy & ENG) was especially hyped to keep up this false sense of Security.....Rassie,s Gameplan and Playing style, is not the sure winner anymore.....and he is failing Miserably @ implementing better team Selection and new Attack/ Defence Structures.....but most people buy into this hype of Success, but in actual fact on paper,  percentage calculated, we just above average.....we are not the best team in the World.

Jan 05, 2023, 21:33

Erasputin's plan from the beginning was to control the movement of the ball with a strict song sheet, and play in the oppositions half no matter what. Hope that the 50/50 calls go your way. So far, the refs have been heavily stacked in the Bok's corner. Even with that, the Boks look very mediocre. It won't last forever. The next coach is going to have a massive job on his hands. I predict the knives will be out for him in a matter of months. 

Jan 05, 2023, 23:15

Geez Moz I did not think you had regressed to the same level as that idiot Doos

Rassie having massive help from Neinaber - come on Moz you know you are speaking shit now

Neinaber has zero coaching credentials - no record to measure him against as he simply has never been a head coach other than as Rassie’s current puppet

Jan 06, 2023, 00:51

Except the only YE games we won Nienaber was flying solo. The worst coaching set up is Nienaber being undermined by Harrassmiss. Actually I was told recently than Nienaber was excited to bring in the twins and stopped by Harrassmis.

Jan 06, 2023, 01:26

We can’t say the same about the majority of his other solo efforts

I actually recall hearing Stick saying he was so pleased to have the du Preez twins in the A squad

It is a weird one as they force their way into the Bok squad through sheer performances for Sale but once they are in the Bok squad they get no or very little game time

Maybe it’s a personality thing. Reading Eddie’s bio you get the low down on some selections that are made sometimes - it’s often not the best player but rather the best fit.

I’m guessing Mostert fits into this category. He is durable and keeps going regardless of the fact that it’s not that productive

Same applies to support staff, Eddie reckons that you need guys on board that read players well, are a good support and able to lift players especially on a tour. He says often they might not be the best in the technical department but add value in a different way

Jan 06, 2023, 01:50

Then maybe the same can be said about quite a few of the Bok players Fitting in that Category.....like Jesse, DDA,  Pieter, Orie...did they out Perform Mostert on productivity? 

Jan 06, 2023, 02:21

Mpower wake up geez PSDT is far more physically productive than useless Mostert

de Allende is the best 12 in the game fuck me he has just been selected in 3 different world sides of the year

He is clearly there on merit

Orie is there because he is black

Jan 06, 2023, 03:32

Mostert’s  try against Ireland was pure class.

Jan 06, 2023, 03:35

Mostert is one of those thin lines that keeps some semblance of competitiveness. Remove the likes of Mostert and Kwagga, and this team falls off a cliff.

Jan 06, 2023, 06:02

Physically deficient Mostert being competitive - LMAO - ask the players who runs through his tackles about that - they will do the same as I.   

Back to Mozart's topic - the most overrated player since 1992 was Morne Steyn - in reality he as a clueless flyhalf with zero ability bar kicking of balls.   For the rest his basic skill was to destroy backline play - never attacking the gain line, slow in decision-making causing him to stand too deep in the pocket making hospital passes to beneficiaries with defenders all over the recipients, since they ignore him totally and went for potential recipients.   I cannot think of a single other flyhalf who personally caused more test match losses than Morne.               

Jan 06, 2023, 15:59

Pieter steph is not the same player he used to be....maybe he will reach his good level again but who knows after all those horrific injuries....anycase there is worst then him like lost Jesse, orie etc...R&N have not created enough player Depth for this years WC....Fact....they still have some time left but most probably they will bring back the likes of Vermeulen and Fransie.

Jan 06, 2023, 16:36

mp

I remember that was the same story written in early 2019 - because people lose sight of the fact that there were replacement problems in certain position that needs to be tested to determine whether they are fit to play for the Springboks.   Some did well others did not or were not even used.   However, by now the Springboks are in a much better state than people thought it was in January 2019.

Promising players are coming through and that is why I am more optimistic now than I was in January 2019.   

Jan 06, 2023, 16:52

Mozart

Getting a ball with no defenders involved and an open tryline beckoning the try could have been scored by a school kid.        

Jan 06, 2023, 17:18

Mostert is a fine team player ...more than fine...great, but no better than PSDT and even a fit Lood is a better option at 5...but you need Mostert in the match day squad...

Jan 06, 2023, 17:57

Lomp is a 10 minute player at best and very likely to be injured before the finals in a WC. Dud Toit is beloved by the Toifosi, but his influence on the game is minimal. When Schalk Burger got injured in 2006, the Boks plummeted. When Dud Toit got injured in the Lions series we had lost the first test and were down in the second, from that moment we started to win.

Lomp was missing for most of the WC final, Dud was missing for the Lions win…..they are not contributors to the Boks winning.

Mostert is….and bs on nobody in front of him for the Irish try. He had to stretch and place the ball. Why, because there was nobody to tackle him.


Stop lying Saaiman

Jan 06, 2023, 17:59

You don’t need Mostert anywhere near the match day squad

Let’s just hope RG gets fit for then powder puff Mostert thankfully falls out of the match 23

Jan 06, 2023, 18:13

I also hope that RG gets fit but regardless of that,  Mostert is the man to rely on....and will not be dropped by Rassie.

Jan 06, 2023, 18:27


"Stop lying Saaiman"

"Lomp is a 10 minute player at best "

Stop fooling yourself Moz.

Jan 06, 2023, 18:41

Actually I was referring to Clever’s comment that Mostert scored his try without any opposition. As for Lomp he is one of those infuriating players who players harder when his position is up for grabs. Pity Snyman has had such a horrible string of injuries.

Jan 06, 2023, 18:42

Lood very commonly struggles to start games strongly. You'll often see kick-off lapses, struggling to follow the pace of the game from the whistle as he lumbers about missing runners or failing to exert pressure as support, carrying etc. He can have the odd moment, but overall, his game is littered with ineffective contributions. Why is this still being debated when ample evidence has been produced to confirm these assertions? The likes of Damian, Steph, Lood, Kolisi et al have accumulated a very large body of work proving they are not good enough for test level. 

Jan 06, 2023, 18:51

The Toifosi and Allendistas are locked in….Dud Allende makes a horrible mental mistake which loses the Pom game in 2021, it’s there for all to see, they simply deny it. Logic has no grip on these  groupies,

Jan 06, 2023, 19:27

Nit-pick-nonsense.

Jan 06, 2023, 19:38

Lood, Steph, Damian, Kolisi, Faf, Willemse et al make the game harder for their teammates. They are not players who give us any kind of edge. In fact, we see the same problems game after game after game...

Jan 06, 2023, 20:05

Okay Draad, let’s test your honesty….did Dud Allende not come inside on an already marked man leaving his channel wide open for the Pom wing he was lined up on, or did he not? Was the winning try scored from that break or not? Let’s see if you can get off the draad.

Jan 06, 2023, 20:22

I can go through every game and show Damian et al making the same defensive lapses. We have too many passive participants, and they tend to accumulate the glut of possession and occupy key defensive duties. 

Jan 06, 2023, 21:34

No Moz your take on de Allende is utter rubbish regarding that try - it’s been done to death

Your take is biased rubbish

Jan 06, 2023, 21:36

Mpower get your facts straight

If Eben, Lood, RG and PSDT are fit then Mostert does not make the match 23

Jan 06, 2023, 22:29

That's only because Erasputin is a dumb coach, like Straeuli. 

Jan 06, 2023, 23:06

What Erasmus has disregarded because it was useless - Meyer hang onto because he was totally rugby ignorant.      Erasmus was the Coach of the Year in 2017 in the Guinness  Series when he coached Munster,  Meyer was fired by Stade Francais because he was totally incompetent in respect of all aspects of coaching and team management.   That is the difference between the two coaches.

We know that everything you write as to rugby shows total lack of rugby intelligence equal to that of Meyer.           

Jan 07, 2023, 00:10

Why are you harping on about Meyer? Besides, he put together very the core of the players that Erasputin has used ever since, the rest mostly from Coetzee. 

Jan 07, 2023, 09:33

Meyer did more damage to players than used them.    He damaged the career of Pollard by playing ping pong with him - now in the team - the next match out.   He used  De Allende and Kriel as a center combination in the WC after they played together in 3 matches as centers before the WC.   He used Du Toit in the Japan disaster at 7 when he did not play in that position for 3 years.   He used players that buggered up royally in team selection on a constant basis.       

Coetzee continued destruction of the Springbok team after Meyer started it and whoever was left of the squad was further demoralized by Coetzee.    When Erasmus took over the Coetzee team even lost to Italy.   Even though some players came from the Meyer destructive coaching by 2018 they had no chance to beat anything because they were totally demoralized.                

Jan 07, 2023, 10:04

So lets get back to players.   We have Morne Steyn - a top class kicker at goal and for the rest a flyhalf disaster who -

*    stood so deep in the pocket standing still when getting the ball resulting in him being unable to  the backline going in any form of backline attacking rugby;

*    never attacked the gain-line with the result that the defenders ignored him and went for the potential recipients of the Morne hospital passes;

*   was incapable of making strategic kicks and often criticized by experts as making aimless kicks; and

*    was substandard in defense due to reluctance to make physical contact with players - he was a rarity never out of teams due to injury,  

Even at the best of times in 2012 to 2015 he was in and out of the Springbok teams due to incompetence in major aspects of the game of flyhalfs.   He was contracted by Stade Francais as a foreign player and ended up as their bench player rarely used because he had a tendency to bugger up games.  

He was hugely over-rated as a player based entirely on his goal-kicking ability.    As far as I am concerned bar for kicking at goal, he was a substandard flyhalf/        

Jan 07, 2023, 12:08

Morné never threw one hospital pass in his entire test career. He also never stood too deep. He varied his depth, but the general setup for Meyer's Boks was a flatter and wider alignment of the backs utilising those long passes off Morné and Du Preez. Morné was highly adept at manipulating the defence. He wasn't a donkey looking for contact. In the end, that was something that contributed to our demise in the 2015 SF: Pollard being a battering ram and the lack of an aerial game to win the territorial battle. That, and Lood and Damian's defensive lapses foe tries. 

Jan 07, 2023, 14:57

When people refused to see what they do not want to see - they are worse than really blind people.  That is what l'Grande Merde specialize in.    He cannot explain why in the Meyer years Morne went in and out of the Springbok team regularly and why Stade Francais refused to play Morne as starting flyhalf after a few matches proved that he was substandard flyhalf.        

Jan 07, 2023, 15:31

Morné was the subject of hideous abuse perpetuated by very stupid journalists. None more so than cocaine addict and sexual deviant, Keo. Where did the pretenders end up? The last great attacking Bok side was the 2013 and early 2014 Bok sides. Morné spearheaded those efforts. As has been pointed out, Morné has exceeded all of the other pretenders. Only Stransky legitimately stands as a slightly more productive 10, but he is nowhere near as successful. It was said that we could never score tries with Morné, that we could not win with Morné, yet he ended up being the most successful 10 in South African rugby history. Not only that, he dominates nearly every other Bok 10 for production in every statistical category, with a defence over 80%. No Michael, it is you who refuses to see the truth. You make up stories, you deliberately lie, you do whatever you can to bury the truth. I won't ever let you get away with it. I will be here long after you, so you had better get used to it, or turn over a new leaf. The choice is yours. 

Jan 07, 2023, 20:50

Do you know what attacking rugby means?    will it means is directly linked to playing of 15 man rugby as against 10-11 man rugby.    The end result must always e t score tries by all means possible.    

The Springboks played against three very week teams in June 2013 Italy, Samoa and Scotland and they played attacking good rugby.  Came along the RC and EOYT and the collapse of attacking rugby was evident,    The Springboks won the June tests - but that was followed by a total collapse bar for a test win against the AB's - followed by a total collapse between November 2014 and September 2015.

The 10 man rugby played by the Springboks since 2001 cannot be called attacking rugby.     

       

Jan 07, 2023, 20:50

Duplication

 
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