Wouldn't you say?
Just like he did with the Sharks and just like he did in Oz.
Wouldn't you say?
Just like he did with the Sharks and just like he did in Oz.
J ake is a fine coach and only those who struggle with understanding rugby say otherwise.
The man who invented the modern defence that won us the 2007 and 2019 WCs.
The coach saved by Eddie
You mean Eddie the guy who master minded the Pom WC final.....hahaha. You are a funny guy Dave.
Yeah the same Eddie who masterminded the thumping of NZ in the WC semi and the 6N crown a week ago.
Unfortunately Eddie came up against his master in Rassie when it came to the final
Puleeze Eddie didn’t even have his team amped to play....Rassie just followed the Jake playbook......Wales 2019 was England in the finals 2019.....England in the Final was England in the pool 2007.
The template was there.
Saying England were not ready to play the final is laughable - the mission is months in the planning, it’s not defined by arriving at the ground 30min later than planned
My guess is that Rassie never gave Jake a thought given the game has moved on somewhat since Jake helm.
Difference being Jake had a far easier route to the final and he was propped up by Eddie
Rassie is twice the coach Jake is
Jake .....37 wins/17 losses......68.6 % success. ...
Erasmus ....17/8......68.0% success.
And Erasmus had the benefit of a WC year in a two year stint, whereas Jake had much less statistical benefit from the WC which boosts the win ratio.
Without the WC Erasmus’ record was 10/7.....58.8%. White’s record was 62.2% earned over a full four years. There is no doubt Jake had the superior record and it was his defensive innovations....aped by Kneeknocker....that won the WC.
Difference is Jakes record started on a high and slumped to one of the worst years in Bok rugby history pre that WC win. That record was the catalyst for sending an SOS to Eddie
Rassie started slowly and then hit us with one of the best years in Bok rugby history - his curve is moving in the direction of a great coach
Great coaches have curves that go up not down like Jake’s
I like both coaches, Jake less for his whining in the media and he is a bit arrogant. You can't fault Jake as I think he is the best coach in SA that can get the most out of any player.
Rassie is master strategist as well as a team motivator. He knows how to get into the heads of players.
I'm also happy that we have Nienaaber, but will have to see how ends up as head coach.
Pity Proudfoot left for the Poms, I thought he was our best scrum coach, even at the stormers.
But I'm glad Jake is coaching the bulls, hopefully will see some young talent coming through.
Fully agree with you corn, excellent comments
I must say, watching that last episode of "Chasing the Sun" I had tears in my eyes when Rassie had his "Mapimpi" moment.....
I am calling it that for now, because I don't want to spoil it for anyone on here that has not yet seen that last episode.... and it will not be the same if you know when and what is going to be said about that specific incident by Rassie
That specific moment in particular..... I will never ever forget
Chasing the Sun....is this a rugby version of Endless Summer?
Saved by Eddie? More like Eddie saved by Jake. Jake's record over Eddie's star-studded Wallabies is 4 to 2 (a minute away from 5 v 1!). Thus Eddie was fired! It's stunning that the Jake bashers are so lacking in their knowledge of Bok rugby that they cannot detect a problem to their argument. That's a 66.7% win percentage. What's Eddie's record in WC finals without Jake?
No omelette you dumb fuck - just go check on average Jakes record in the two years leading up to the WC and you might then just be able to work out why Eddie saved Jake you halfwit
It was either sack Jake or bring in someone who knew what they were doing
Some coaches just suck.
However, there are always variables involved that we cannot and, most often, do not take them into consideration.
Sure, you can say that genius coach leaves nothing to chance, but in a game with an oval ball, that's just no possible.
Eddie and Jake are both top tier coaches.
The difference lay in circumstance and the countless unseen factors which none of us are privy to.
In the end you can look at achievements but my feeling is that the margins are small and the variables endless.
Actually, Jake's record is pretty good. He lost most of his players through injury throughout the season. There hasnt been a Bok injury list that extensive since. He managed to beat the Wallabies and All Blacks with some meagre combinations and come out breaking England's stranglehold and set up 2007 for a fantastic season long before Eddie. He held a full strength All Black side (best of the century) to within a few pints for over 60 minutes with a shadow team, gave a full strength Wallaby side an almighty scare away. Went on an amazing run. Jake didn't need Eddie. He needed Frans, that was the final ignition which turned the Samoan game on its head and got the Boks rolling. There is nothing in any of those games that has Eddie's touch. The blueprint was Jake's. The thing was this: the plastics, such as yourself, didn't think he could do it without Watson, Pretorius et al. Back then, the plastics called Juan a carthorse, Du Preez a talentless bum, none of you saw JP's potential on the wing, or the class of Monty, or the presence and composure of Os. I could go on. In the end, Eddie's big pick was Pienaar at 10. How'd that work out for you? Das Omlett redet zu viel Scheiße; jetzt denkt er ist der Boss
Mallett at the Stormers.
White at the Bulls.
Akker at the Lions.
________ at the Sharks.
White's Vodacom Cup trophy hangs in the balance(Sharks thread not working for a reply,he thinks it's race over)
Local Pumas also have this Covid and the Rugby Board are trying to re-schedule both games
....the Lions and the Bulls.That leaves the winner of the Stormers and Sharks game the winner if Bulls only get a draw.Shouldn't be penalized on final standings because of a Covid draw though/.
Dave 2 years prior to the WC White’s record was 8/4 win/loss and he missed winning a second TN by 5 minutes. Losing to the ABs away 31 to 27.
A loss is a loss Moz regardless of 5min - it’s equivalent to saying Jakes record was bolstered by 8 wins against the likes of Namibia, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa and the US
If we did that it would mean he only won 28 games and lost 17 against the major unions.
Fact is his record is pretty damn average
In 2006 the year before the WC his win record was 42% hence the board wanting to sack him but instead they brought Eddie on board
His overall record is piss poor other than against England, Wales and Argentina
Against NZ it was 33% France 25% Ireland 50% Oz 55%
Hardly the record of a great coach
Jake faced better SH opposition than recent times, and got better output. His Boks scored one try less than the All Blacks scored against his Boks.
What's our record against the best teams now? 50% against Wales (benefitting from a huge list of Welsh injuries in the second test), 50% against England (never beating them in England, a loss at home), 50% against the worst Wallaby side in 45 years, 25% against New Zealand. 100% against France exclusively through the good work of Louw. Even the high points defeat many of your arguments (players you called hasbeens).
Your criteria for evaluation has too many flaws. You are a very emotional person, and no wonder you gravitate to emotional political movements targeting undeveloped minds of young people.
Omelette you dumbfuck, Jakes record is piss poor as I have pointed out - no getting around that fact, telling us the opposition back then was better than now is a pathetic lame cop out and a load of utter shit
Rassie’s record is still work in progress you idiot and can only be compared with the rest of the coaches once he has moved on
Right now his record in his second year makes Jake look like the pretender he is.
Rassie had an average first year, an amazing second year - his curve is on the up, Jakes was the complete opposite until Eddie came and bailed him out - FACT
Rassie is twice the coach Jake ever was - on every level
Erasmus’ record against our SH opponents:
NZ .....1 win/2 losses/1 draw......a 25% win ratio or 33% if we exclude the draw.
Oz....it’s 2/1, but only because we only played Oz at home in 2019.
Wales we are 1/2.
Not exactly the ‘record of a great coach’.
This is utter baloney again and totally stupid. The Springboks played 12 tests against the AB's when Meyer was coach and won ONE of those - under Coetzee ir was even worse - they lost all 4 tests played and there were no BS calculations provided then by you.
As to Jake White - he has the strong financial backing of two billionaires and his team has tow ion or he would be fired,
Anyway - what you fail to recognize is that White had an easy ride to the WC final. Just take into account that in the four round robin tests they struggled against Tonga and in the quarter-finals against Fiji - while they played an over-the-hill England team and manage to win by kicking at goal - never a single try even contemplated in the final. After beating the English convincingly in the round robin part of the WC-series - White allowed the English to dictate the nature of the game to be played and the Springboks struggled as a result in the final.
There was no struggle in the 2019 WC final - they dismantled and beat the better than 2007 English team by a huge margin,
There can be no real argument - Erasmus is a brilliant coach and player manager than any coach the Springboks had since 1992 - while White was a good coach - with rather problematic player management - the latter aspect cost him dearly un subsequent coaching jobs/
There can never be any doubt about Erasmus as a coach - he inherited a dispirited and poor team when he took over in May 2018 and in 15 months took the Springboks from the 7th ranked team in the word to the top one in less than 18 months, So please - your rugby interpretations is driven by prejudice and consequently idiotic.
, . .
All he did was exactly the opposite of what you wanted Wanker. He followed my prescription of a potent defense.....you were still calling for seuntjies running through green pastures.
All Erasmus did was the obvious.
"Rassie’s record is still work in progress you idiot and can only be compared with the rest of the coaches once he has moved on"
Maybe not Dave, as far as I know he was employed as the Director of Rugby not as the coach of the Boks.
Only defense without scoring of tries would never win a world cup. I never said defense is not important - fact is that is why Du Toit was the Player of the Year last year and De Allende was the best center during the series. What I did say was that a 10 man game is total BS and I clearly remember how you wrote that 90% kicking is what is required from flyhalf.
But he is on record saying he is staying hands on with the side in terms of selection and coaching.
Correct...which is smart. There'll be continuity and that is always healthy. I have a good feeling about the Boks these days there's just so much talent coming through . We'll lose a few but it's to be expected.
Yeah I’m guessing he will stay hands on but will also dedicate time to the rest of SA rugby
He will coach and select the Boks while leaving all the off field duties of a coach to his deputy
Nienaber is an extension of Rassie, but Rassie will always pull the strings
Agreed there has always been an abundance of talent just never a worthy rugby brain to steer the ship
That has all changed thankfully
Moz problem with Jake is that his curve went the wrong way
Year one - 69% Year two - 67% Year three - 42%
Enter Eddie and it shoots up to 80% in the WC year
Rassie started slowly in year one at 50% but beat the All Blacks away from home which was huge
Year two he loses only one test and wins the WC and RC - it’s no contest between Jake and Rassie
Rassie is just so so much better on every level and only at the start of his Bok journey
His curve is heading in the right direction unlike Jake’s
You don’t invest in a manager with a downward curve so why would you in a rugby coach. Bringing in a pro to bail you out reflects badly on yourself that you did not have the know how to turn things around yourself
Giving credit to Jake in the WC year is a joke, had Eddie not been there would he have miraculously turned his fortunes from 40% to 80% - no chance. He had lost the plot in 2006 and needed a saviour
The 10 man game is what Erasmus deployed against Wales and for 75% of the Pom game.. ...we only opened up once the game was won.
Dave let me give you a different slant. Jake got a team with a record just as poor as Erasmus got. He immediately turned the team around....it didn’t take a second year.
He had two brilliant years, but was resented by the guys up north. So when Schalk got hurt in 2006 and things wobbled, he was immediately fighting for his coaching life. Puke was the cause for many....others just didn’t like the man.
So when 2007 rolled around it took a strong personality to right the ship. But he did .....Eddie helped, not so much because of skills coaching but because he instilled confidence in the backs.
Now Erasmus. He had a very unsure start, his whole first year was saved by a test the ABs gave away.......and Rassie returned the favour by giving away the home test.
In 2019 he smartly doubled down on his players, Pollard in particular and honed the defense. But to be fair, he improved basic execution....or rather his coaches did....Kneeknocker and Proudfoot did a great job of basics. But Erasmus gets credit for that
Beyond that he played a no mistakes game well, although Wales could have gone either way if Louw hadn’t turned over that crucial ball.
My fundamental point is we have the gene pool to always be at the very top. If Oz had our tight five with their strapping Dutch genes, instead of a mix of Island and Cockney genes.....they would be top dog. NZ has a better concoction but still not up to Dutch standards.
So when we lose it’s usually because we are doing something stupid. Erasmus and White avoided that, but I give White more credit because he was so undermined whereas Erasmus was so well supported.
The gameplan was still wobbly in my opinion. It hinged on accurate shallow up and unders, but the kicks were poor. It basically came down to a good matchup in the final and a very, very sketchy Welsh test. What else was there? A loss and a draw against the most vulnerable All Black side since 1998? José's results are propped up by three key results. That's it. His 2018 was worse than 2017, his 2019 was nothing spectacular. He regressed the Bok game in every attacking category. Our game has gone backwards, not forwards. It's based entirely on physical dominance, which we cannot guarantee. Jake's Boks evolved over four years, continuously. His work carried the Boks on for the next cycle. Until, J osé and Nienaber again took the reigns in 2011. They did steady the ship that Snor was determined to burry beneath the waves, but the physicality blueprint didn't work. Not even with our golden age of players. José and his key worker needed a second bite at the apple and a bit of luck.
Moz the problem with Jake is that no one liked him, a complete prick by all accounts. You could get away with being a grumpy dictator back in the day but not in the modern game.
The players would have followed Jake initially but once they had learnt his true self they would have turned on his school master mentality and with it the results took a dive.
Rassie on the other hand is a master tactician, rugby astute and has a brilliant player management style
You can tell the players respect him and completely buy into his guidance.
To say that his coaches are the contributing factors is not only laughable but insulting. Proudfoot is a scrum coach, Neinaber the defence coach completely moulded by Rassie having never coached a side independently himself. He has always been under Rassie’s wings
It’s chalk and cheese stuff - Rassie is next level when it comes to coaching on all levels - tactically and people management
Jake evidenced his lack of people management skills in his handling of Luke. Luke was a class openside far better suited to the role than Schalk who should have played 7 or 8. Luke was a great linking 6 with a pathetic agenda. A great coach would have turned Luke on side
Oh wow omelette knows better than Rassie who in this arrogant twats mind, Rassie had a wobbly game plan
You could not make this shit up
I gave you the benefit of the doubt until you said Luke was a class opensider. He was no test player as we saw when he was given his full opportunity under the Snor. Small, not particularly fast and easily dominated physically.
Disagree he had a solid test under trying conditions.
You don’t make player of the year being small, slow and dominated
Luke was a class player, no smaller or weaker than Brussouw. He was a better athlete though - his strength was in open play, linking with backs.
He was easily good enough to make the Bok squad on merit in those days. Schalk was a make shift openside who brought finesse to his game only when he joined Saracens.
He did a good job for the Boks as he was a hard nut but like Louw, he was never really suited to 6. But if he was our incumbent then Luke was definitely good enough to be his backup
I was a huge fan of Watson as a player but the stupid guy was completely misguided in his outlook on life. He completely wasted his rugby career for a cause that made zero impact
I started to read what AO w rote above and stop reading when he showed utter stupidity once again:- lets give some examples:-
* The English team sent to SA in 2007 was a crap side made up of a lot pf pretenders - none of the real test players were in the team and White is praised for the victories against them. England would not use any of those players in any real tests. There was quite a scandal about that team in 2007, but it is evident that AO is too dumb to realize what happened.
* Erasmus send a squad comprising of five test regulars and the rest were pretenders - to play the Welsh in Washington - it even contained Esterhuizen at center - and the loss by that lot is a reason for criticism if Erasmus.
* the injury excuse for the 33-6 loss by the Springboks against New Zealand and the 25-17 loss against Australia in the 2007 Tri-Nations is a joke as well.
* the 2007 WC squad of England was a joke in bad taste as well - there were basically too many over-the-hill players in the squad and the 2019 England team would have beaten that lot by a cricket score count. The game plan of White for the WC final was a joke as well - he allowed the English to play a game suited to them and not the Springboks.
Whenever Mozart post anything on s ite one can only marvel at his absolute BS. When pointed out to him that what he wrote was tripe he gets personal. An example is where he supported only reputation players selected by Meyer with total disregard of performance he had the audacity to call performing players I supported "seuntjies".
So let’s introduce a bit of reality:
Wales 115 passes, 36 kicks/ Boks 67 passes, 37 kicks.
Wales 61% of possession/62 % of territory.
Wales should have walked the game....but for one statistical category:
Wales 74 of a mere 90 tackles they had to make/ the Boks 147 of 158 tackles they had to make. The Boks missed 5 less tackles despite having to make 68 more tackles.
So there you have it....the Boks defended their way to victory. If you are going to use stats Wanker, use the right stats.
Your description of the game against Wales were and are utter BS, You claim the Springboks kicked the ball and did not use it for attacking purposes and the o nly reason they won was because their attack was useless,
The one thing that nobody ever disputed was the issue of defense, and I pointed out that you were talking tripe.. Defense was part of the game plan and Nienaber was the coach dealing with that issue.
Other than defense the Springboks despite a huge a huge advantage in ball carries was only credited with the brilliant try by De Allende, Three try-scoring opportunities were fouled up om the game - two of those opportunities were the result of foul-ups by Le Roux with a ball knock-on with an open try-line ahead of him and the second by him through a poor pass.
The attacks on Erasmus as a coach are the actions of a complete rugby imbeciles and every time you wrote things prove that you are one of them,
So just the usual, stale, witless accusations and no comprehension of the stats. Was the team that forced 147 tackles or the team that forced 74 tackles the team that was on the attack. No don’t bother answering, we have heard it all before.
Listen dimness - look at the distances covered by the ball carriers for examples. The fact is the Willie part of my report was confirmed time and again by review/
The number of passes and carries means nothing at all since no real results in the scoring of tries were achieved. Players can pass and carry balls ineffectively and the result will be zero. That is what omlette comes up with an argument and it is as stupid as only you and he could be.
Fact is Welsh players carried the .ball 114 times for a 182 meter gain - an average gain of 1,6 meters per carry - the Springboks carried the ball 71 times for a 296 meter gain - an average gain of circa 4,2 meters per carry and was much more effective in their carries. The stats means nothing - the results everything. Think about it that way ignorant stooge.
It was a close game but the Boks definitely were the better side
Mike is right we missed out on two easy tries which would have taken the game away from Wales
Rassie is a master tactician, he knows our strengths lie with physically wearing down and dominating the opposition. It’s why he dropped powder puff Mostert to the bench and replaced him with the much more physical Lood, it’s why he had a whole reserve tight five on the bench going with a 6/2 split. It’s why he employs the big physical PSDT, a lock at 7
We physically beat up the Japs, Welsh and Poms in particular to not win the final but actually thrash England in the process.
WC finals are meant to be close affairs but instead Rassie completely owned Eddie tactically and we beat the Poms into submission.
To win a WC final 32 -12 speaks volumes for the side and their very very astute coach
Who steers a side to thrashing the opposition in a WC final - a brilliant coach does
My god Mike you are pathetic. Rooinek treats you like garbage. But you ape his pathetic ‘omelette’ name. Have some pride man.
OK - I meant AO - but that should not make a difference to the idiocy of both of you.
Actually, the interesting thing is that the origin of das Omelett is that Herr Omelett (Rooi, amongst other names) was quick off the trigger thinking he spotted a mistake, and didn't realize I was speaking German. A gaff ensu ed. I found that it wasn't difficult to goad the arrogant one into a mistake, the watch some foot stamping as it tries to cover its tracks. Herr Omelett was exposed . If the little dear prefers, I can use Dame Schneeflocke instead.
As for José? Lood has never dominated since the 2014 Scottish test and two runs against Japan. That's it. He is slow, lethargic, devoid of any skills. Had José truly been a great assessor of talent and a great tactician, he'd have started RG, removed Steph from the squad, placed Mostert at 7, removed Kolisi from the squad, elevated Dan du Preez, started Louw, started Esterhuizen, removed Damian from the squad, elevated Serfontein as 12/13 cover.
José gets out-thought tactically often. His limited gameplan is not sustainable. It never will be. His entire coaching record is mediocre, and once Nienaber's work is taken out of the conversation, we are left with nothing. José adds nothing but man-management, which might not actually work once things started going wrong (hence him running away from the limelight and working through a figurehead Coetzee and Nienaber).
This debate has been easily won each and every time it surfaces.
"But you ape his pathetic ‘omelette’ name."
Must we bring the special one into this?
Is nothing/nobody sacred to you?
Carelessly not spelling a word correctly is not as embarrassing as thinking Trump could immediately allow Biden to save lives....Peeper.
You have never won any argument as to rugby issues because you do not understand the game at all and can only be regarded as total rugby illiterate. . You heard somewhere about a rugby game plan and you have no idea about what it entails. That is why you came up with a Meyer game plan when it was entirely absent from usage while he was coaching the Springboks.
And the ‘omelette’ quote Peeper was from Mike’s post.....he aped your name, but unlike you he apparently got it right.
Has there EVER been a more rugby ignorant dick than omelette?
Well Lister, there's always you. Where did Serfontein go? What of JJ, the greatest 13 since readmission? Goosen? Lambie? Pretorius? Watson? So many names of kids that never made it. Sure things, "class acts". To top it off, the old hasbeens you wanted to give the boot carried a mediocre coaching team to a WC. That's the cherry on the kak cake. Very funny.
The chief of "rugby idiocy" must test with Lügnerin!
Funny how idiotic the rugby knowledge of that idiot AO really is. He praised the poor coaching of Meyer and Coetzee - who subsequently coached club teams and got fired for gross incompetency and will never get any real coaching job in future other than perhaps school teams because they were so totally defective in coaching and attack the coaching competence pf Erasmus. He still have to explain how incompetence as club coaches makes people competent tp coach on test level.
We all strive to support certain players and we all make mistakes in players we support, But we are not coaches and we do not have our views in team selection impacted on team performance,
So lets get to the issue of the WC raised in his latest post, What are you talking about village idiot? Meyer took a squad of 31 players to the 2015 WC and of those 8 were unplayable in tests because they were selected on reputation and not performance, In their first game some of he unplayables played and they lost against Japan. And what did they achieve otherwise - zilch and that resulted in Meyer's coaching contract not be renewed by SARU, What did they carry? Nothing at all, No game plan - no players selected on the bases of performance - caused havoc in 2015,
Then we have the 2019 World Cup winners - a real team that in the final demolished their English opponents, From the demoralized team ranked seventh in the world Erasmus within 18 months built up a team that won the WC and became the no 1 team in the world, That was achievement and that is where we are today, So Erasmus is being criticized endlessly and hos two failed predecessors praised by the biggest rugby fools ever, That ois the very real joke we have on site,
"Carelessly not spelling a word correctly is not as embarrassing as thinking Trump could immediately allow Biden to save lives....Peeper."
...or indeed that Biden would be able to "save lives".
As we learned, Biden has pledged a "walahoo", which Trump can't do, apparently. That with "cancer moonshine", the lives of Americans will be in good hands.
Poor little omelette pathetically rugby ignorant and a complete dick to boot