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My bold move I’m dropping

Forum » Rugby » My bold move I’m dropping

Jan 17, 2025, 10:58

Willie, Mapimpi, Kriel, Am, de Allende, Esterhuizen, Faf, Reinach, Kitshoff, Nyakane, Bongi, Malherbe, Koch, Mostert, Lood, Kolisi and Wiese

So against Argies, Oz, NZ, France and Ireland I’m going with:

15. Fassi 14. Kolbe 13. Jurenzo Julius 12. Willemse 11. Arendse 10. Sacha 9. Williams 1. Ox 2. Marx 3. Wilco 4. Etzebeth 5. RG 6. Hanekom 7. PSDT 8. Roos

16. AH Venter 17. Steenkamp 18. Thomas 19. Ruben v Heerden 20. Kwagga 21. Jayden Hendrikse 22. Pollard 23. Hooker

So against Georgia, Italy and Wales I’m going with:

15. Jordan Hendrikse 14. Green 13. Moodie 12. Hooker 11. Edwil vd Merwe 10. Libbok 9. Nohamba 1. Wessels 2. Dweba 3. Sadie 4. Ruan Vermaak 5. Ruben v Heerden 6. Manu Tsituka 7. BJ Dixon 8. Elrigh Louw

16. Grobelaar 17. Mchunu 18. Hanro Jacobs 19. JF v Heerden 20. Vincent Tsituka 21. vd Bergh 22. David Kriel 23. Henco v Wyk

Jan 17, 2025, 11:29

This would be a positive move forward….throw them in the deep end.

If all else fails, you can go back to the incumbents…..

I would play Willemse at 15 and 12 David Kriel . 8 Jasper Wiese…..

Definitely also start Henco V Wyk at 13 for some of those games.

Love to work Cobus Wiese in to.

Jan 17, 2025, 15:16

No ways - Fassi stays at 15 with Willemse at 12, Roos at 8

My side stays as is

Jan 17, 2025, 15:18

My team:

Willie

Mapimpi 

Am 

Jean

Habana

Morne Steyn (take no chances)

Faf

The Beast

Marx

Malherbe

Etzebeth…always

Victor

Schalk

Juan 

Vermeulen

We give up on these guys far too soon. Who the blue blazes is this guy Julius. I haven’t seen him do much but nice name.

Jan 17, 2025, 16:18

Julius is the new preacher in town

Moz I thought you watched rugby?

Jan 17, 2025, 16:33

I’ll put him under the mozcroscope.

Jan 17, 2025, 16:52

YouTube him

Jan 17, 2025, 18:20

"I’ll put him under the mozcroscope."


Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahha!

The same "mozroscope" that told us Rassie was useless and Pieter-Steph du Toit is crap?

A rugby noob trying hard not to sound like a pompous twat . . . and failing!

LMAO!

Jan 17, 2025, 22:05

It was a joke Pot Pot, you know humor?  Got the answer on those time stamps yet, or are you too cowardly to admit your foolish mistake?

Jan 18, 2025, 05:48

I'll ask again, what point is there to chucking in a mixed bag of young players against the worst teams in the world?

What are you actually going to learn?

You'll learn more about them watching them play against stiffer opposition at their franchises.

The team Dave put together, most of them have never played together. So outside of the fact that Wales and Georgia are bad, and Italy not a great deal better...you won't even really be testing combinations.

This squad of 6 million is nonsense as far as I'm concerned. You know who your best players are and you know who you'd want to replace them.

You have a squad and you use their understudies as needed.

Jan 18, 2025, 11:15

Agreed Plum...

Jan 18, 2025, 13:53

Disagree - you learn zero from your best side playing minnows and thumping them.

Equally you learn zero about new combinations when the players are scattered around their respective unions

My point above is about moving on from the 33 year olds so it’s a new squad with Arendse, Kolbe, Willemse, Pollard, Ox, Marx, Etzebeth, Kwagga, Wiese and PSDT as my experienced core and the likes of Fassi, Moodie, Libbok, Hendrikse, Williams, Wilco, Thomas and RG having accumulated a good few caps

Outside of these players the emphasis needs to be on youth - Jordan Hendrikse, Green, Jurenzo Julius, Henco v Wyk, Hooker, David Kriel, Sacha, Nohamba, vd Bergh, Wessels, Mchunu, AH Venter, Grobelaar, Sadie, Hanro Jacobs, Klopper, Moerat, Ruben v Heerden, Ruan Vermaak, Cobus Wiese, JF v Heerden, Rahl, Buthelezi, BJ Dixon, Ludwig, Ruan Venter, Vincent Tsituka, Elrigh Louw, Hanekom, Roos and Manu Tsituka

We have to move on

Jan 18, 2025, 15:37

Agree, we have to lay more emphasis on integrating more of the young guns.

There is absolutely no way in hell that they won’t learn anything….

The more they get exposed to test Rugby the better they will get….

Look at Oz under Joe Schmidt for example and tell them there is no use in throwing a unknown group of players together and play test Rugby….

Most of those guys are Brand new with no experience together.

But they found there way pretty quick and now they playing well together.

Your incumbents has enough experience at the top, it’s the new kids on the block that needs all the experience in the world:)

That is the only way forward for our Boks for the next generation.

Jan 18, 2025, 15:48

"Disagree - you learn zero from your best side playing minnows and thumping them."

The point is not to learn anything.

The "point" is to make sure they still have synergy and to keep improving it...because the RC and end of year tours will be way harder than it was last year.

Wales, Georgia and Italy are hardly test level competition.

Or yeah, chuck all the young guns into the "tests" at the start of the year and then hope the Boks can instantly click to win the RC again.

Jan 18, 2025, 15:57

Which young players in the Boks found their way and are playing well together, M?

Jan 18, 2025, 16:46

I was talking about the OZ team Making a example of how a lot of new guys there has just clicked are playing together regularly. Guys like Rob Valentine, Max Jorgensen, Joseph Aukuso Suaalii

Jan 18, 2025, 18:58

Ah, yeah, but they played all the games. Not just random games and occasionally.

Jan 18, 2025, 19:55

Yes exactly the new group of Younger Bok players must also play all the games…..

This is very possible as Jo Schmidt is proving.

Jan 20, 2025, 07:34

Okay, so then you don't agree with Dave who thinks it's wise to chuck them into a couple of nothing games and then they see little/no game time against better opposition. 

I'm for it. I believe in clean slates. More so when the core of your team are all retiring at the same time. Which is what is happening to the Boks. We've already identified our long term leaders at the front and back...Sacha and Hannekom. Build from there. 

Though, as I stated elsewhere, its tricky to do because of the current age of our players. They've still got a good year or two in them. But almost none of them will be starting at the 2027 WC.

So when and how do you get new players in, and get them fully assimilated into the Bok plan? 

...because they will have to take over, and do so convincingly, before the WC starts.

The answer is 100% not to play these guys in nothing matches because that achieves ZERO.

Here's an odds, evens, doubles strategy...Took a few precise prompts of ChatGPT, but I got it spit this out. 

FYI this is the type of thing GPT is supposed to be used for.  

Strategy Overview

1. Odds Phase

  • Goal: Introduce new players into the Odd positions (first player in combinations).
  • Example: A new scrum-half (9) partners with the incumbent fly-half (10), or a new lock (4) partners with the incumbent (5).

2. Evens Phase

  • Goal: Introduce new players into the Even positions (second player in combinations).
  • Example: The incumbent scrum-half (9) partners with a new fly-half (10), or the incumbent lock (4) partners with a new lock (5).

3. Doubles Phase

  • Goal: Test fully new combinations, introducing new players into both Odd and Even positions.
  • Example: A new lock pairing (4 & 5) or a new half-back combination (9 & 10).

Year-by-Year Plan

2025: Foundation Phase

  • Objective: Gradually introduce new players into Odd and Even positions to build depth and familiarity with the Springbok system.
  • Competitions: Rugby Championship (RC), Incoming Home Tests (IT), European Tour (ET).

Plan:

  1. Rugby Championship: Focus on Odds Phase

    • Test new players in Odd positions (e.g., 1, 4, 9, 12, 15).
    • Example Game 1:
      • New loosehead prop (1), lock (4), scrum-half (9), inside center (12), and fullback (15).
    • Game 2: Rotate new players into different Odd positions, ensuring variety.
  2. Incoming Home Tests: Transition to Evens Phase

    • Test new players in Even positions (e.g., 3, 5, 10, 13, 14).
    • Example Game 1:
      • Incumbent scrum-half (9) with new fly-half (10).
      • Incumbent lock (4) with new lock (5).
  3. European Tour: Continue Evens Phase

    • Use challenging conditions to test new Even players under pressure.
    • Begin identifying combinations that work well for further development.

2026: Integration Phase

  • Objective: Start combining new players in both Odd and Even positions to test synergy.
  • Competitions: RC, IT, ET.

Plan:

  1. Rugby Championship: Begin Doubles Phase

    • Test two fully new combinations per game.
    • Example Game 1:
      • New lock pairing (4 & 5).
      • New half-back pairing (9 & 10).
    • Example Game 2:
      • New center pairing (12 & 13).
      • New front-row combination (1, 2, 3).
  2. Incoming Tests: Continue Odds & Doubles Testing

    • Rotate remaining Odd positions to finalize a pool of potential players.
    • Continue refining promising new combinations.
  3. European Tour: Prioritize Doubles Testing

    • Use high-pressure environments to evaluate fully new pairings and identify weaknesses.

2027: Finalization Phase

  • Objective: Finalize combinations for the World Cup.
  • Competitions: RC, Pre-World Cup Warmups.

Plan:

  1. Rugby Championship: Solidify Starting XV

    • Focus on finalized combinations, with minimal rotation.
    • Confirm all starting players meet the age criterion and are cohesive.
  2. Pre-World Cup Warmups: Test Squad Depth

    • Use backups in remaining positions to ensure readiness for injuries or fatigue.

Position-Specific Integration Plan

Front Row (1, 2, 3):

  • 2025: Introduce new loosehead (1) and tighthead (3) props in Odds/Evens Phases.
  • 2026: Test full front-row combinations.

Locks (4 & 5):

  • 2025: Test new lock at 4 (Odd) and later at 5 (Even).
  • 2026: Test full new lock pairings (Doubles Phase).

Back Row (6, 7, 8):

  • 2025: Rotate new players into each position, one at a time.
  • 2026: Test combinations (e.g., 6 & 8 or 7 & 8).

Half-Backs (9 & 10):

  • 2025: New scrum-half (9) plays with incumbent fly-half (10). Later, reverse roles.
  • 2026: Test full new half-back pairings.

Centers (12 & 13):

  • 2025: New inside center (12) partners with incumbent outside center (13). Later, reverse roles.
  • 2026: Test full center pairings.

Back Three (11, 14, 15):

  • 2025: Rotate new players in wings (11, 14) and fullback (15).
  • 2026: Test full combinations.

Advantages of This Approach

  1. Clear Combinational Testing: The Odds/Evens structure ensures every new player is tested systematically within key partnerships.
  2. Balanced Transition: Doubles testing introduces multiple new players but limits disruption to team cohesion.
  3. World Cup Readiness: Guarantees all starting combinations are cohesive, experienced, and meet the age criterion for 2027.

This plan creates a Springbok side that blends youth and experience, ensuring readiness for the Rugby World Cup without sacrificing short-term competitiveness.

Jan 20, 2025, 16:54

They can build that synergy against Oz and the Argies

Absolutely no point at all in playing your best side against Georgia and Italy - would be a complete waste of time

You would gain far more throwing your young guns in against these sides and give them 3 games in a row to showcase their worth

It’s a no brainer for me - it’s like choosing to prioritise the URC over the Champions Cup - most ridiculous and frustrating move by our clueless provincial unions ever

Our established old side putting 50+ points over Georgia is on par with kissing your sister as is the Sharks playing the Bulls in a URC fixture vs the Bulls playing Saracens or Toulouse or Leinster in a Champions Cup fixture

 
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