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My WC squad post Super rugby

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Jul 08, 2019, 18:11

Not much has changed pre Super series. My 31 would be:

15. Willie / Gelant 14/11. Nkosi / Dyantyi / Mapimpi 13/12. Serfontein / de Allende / Kriel / Am / Janse Van Rensburg 10. Pollard / Jantjies 9. Faf / Reinach 1/3. Kitshoff / Pierre Schoeman / Wilco Louw / Thomas du Toit 2. Marx / Aker 4/5. Etzebeth / PSDT / Lood / RG Snyman 6. Kolisi / Jaco Kriel / Kwagga 7. JL du Preez / Jacques du Plessis 8. Marcel Coetzee / Dan du Preez

Jul 08, 2019, 18:44

It is easier to read in this format. 


15. Willie / Gelant 

14/11. Nkosi / Dyantyi / Mapimpi 

13 / Kriel / Am 

12. Serfontein / de Allende / Janse Van Rensburg 

10. Pollard / Jantjies 

9. Faf / Reinach 

1/3. Kitshoff / Pierre Schoeman / Wilco Louw / Thomas du Toit 

2. Marx / Aker 

4/5. Etzebeth / PSDT / Lood / RG Snyman 

6. Kolisi / Jaco Kriel / Kwagga 

7. JL du Preez / Jacques du Plessis 

8. Marcel Coetzee / Dan du Preez

Jul 08, 2019, 19:32

Cool thanks Shark

Jul 08, 2019, 20:08

Can't fault that team too much, but I'll take Lleyds ahead of Gelant, regardless of size...Will find a spot for Kolbe too. (My WP bias at play)

Bongi will be my 3rd hooker and Jantjies my 3rd scrummie. (Not bias...Bongi is more than solid...I like Acker, but Bongi should be ahead of him...not much between them, but Bongi has more xp....and Jantjies did very well at 9...better than any local 9.

And leaving Vermeulen at home is plain stupid.

Jul 08, 2019, 21:11

I’m not taking 3 scrummies but if I was Jantjies and Papier would be the contenders for the third.

I like Bongi as well but Akers ability to break tackles edges it for me but only just.

Vermeulen is ok but Dan du Preez outplayed him for much of the season and Marcel Coetzee is better than Dan, so no spot for old man Vermeulen in my squad. Big fan of Jaco Coetzee as well

Jul 09, 2019, 00:19

Dave

With respect - he squad is normally made u as follows:-

Outside backs   =     5  (Wings and  Full Backs)

Centers             =     3

Flyhalfs            =     2

Scrumhalfs       =     3

Loose Heads    =     3

Tight Heads     =     3

Hookers           =     3

Locks              =      3

Back Row       =      5

I would classify the player selections accordingly.  If members wants to list more players they are welcome to do so.

Jul 09, 2019, 02:40

I have made some improvements from the initial squad, and taken more consideration of the specialist position limits as stated by CleverMike:


15. Willie / Kolbe

14/11. Nkosi / Dyantyi / Mapimpi 

13  Kriel / Am 

12. Serfontein / Frans Steyn/ (De Allende or CartHuizen)

10. Pollard / Elton Jantjies 

9. Faf / Reinach/ Hershell Jantjies

1. Kitshoff/Beast/ Gqokboka

2. Marx / Aker/ Bongi

3. Flab Malherbe/ Nykana/     (Wilco Louw)/ 

RG Snyman  /  Elizabeth

5. Mostert/ 

6. Kolisi / Kwagga / Flouw

7. Stephanie /

8. Vermeulen, 

Jul 09, 2019, 02:47

RUGBY CHAMPIONSHIP TRAINING SQUAD

BACK THREEAphiwe Dyantyi, (Lions), Warrick Gelant (Bulls), Makazole Mapimpi (Sharks), Sbu Nkosi (Sharks), Cheslin Kolbe (Toulouse), Willie le Roux (Toyota Verblitz), Dillyn Leyds (Stormers)
MIDFIELDLukhanyo Am (Sharks), Damian de Allende (Stormers), André Esterhuizen (Sharks), Jesse Kriel (Bulls), Frans Steyn (Montpellier)
FLYHALVESElton Jantjies (Lions), Handré Pollard (Bulls)
SCRUMHALVESFaf de Klerk (Sale Sharks), Herschel Jantjies (Stormers), Cobus Reinach (Northampton Saints)
LOOSE FORWARDSMarcell Coetzee (Ulster), Pieter-Steph du Toit (Stormers), Rynhardt Elstadt (Toulouse), Siya Kolisi (Stormers), Francois Louw (Bath), Kwagga Smith (Lions), Duane Vermeulen (Bulls)
LOCKSLood de Jager (Bulls), Eben Etzebeth (Stormers), Franco Mostert (Gloucester), Marvin Orie (Lions), RG Snyman (Bulls)
PROPSThomas du Toit (Sharks), Lizo Gqoboka (Bulls), Steven Kitshoff (Stormers), Vincent Koch (Saracens), Frans Malherbe, (Stormers), Tendai Mtawarira (Sharks), Trevor Nyakane (Bulls)
HOOKERSSchalk Brits (Bulls), Malcolm Marx (Lions), Bongi Mbonambi (Stormers)
INJURED BUT ON RADARRuan Botha (Sharks, foot surgery), Dan du Preez (Sharks, rib fracture), Warren Whiteley (Lions, knee surgery), Damian Willemse (Stormers, knee surgery), Jan Serfontein (Montpellier, ankle surgery)

Jul 09, 2019, 02:59

CleverMike, are you sure that you can take 6 props, but only 3 locks? 


Jul 09, 2019, 03:13

Imagine the disaster if Pollard gets injured.

Jul 09, 2019, 03:23

Players who are not equipped for a WC:

Gelant.

Jantjies.

Janse van Rensburg.

Thomas du Toit.

De Jager

Jaco Kriel.

Kolisi.

Marcel Coetzee.

THESE PLAYERS ARE NOT PLAYING AT AN ELITE LEVEL THIS YEAR, THEY WONT FIND FORM AT THE WC.

Jul 09, 2019, 04:15

I don't see any place for Damien Willemse in the squad. He is a player that excels in space, it remains to be seen if he can step up to be a test level player. Is he just a skillful player, or can he control matches like a Jonnie Sexton at 10. 

Kolbe is a much better bet to cover 15, and he can also play on the wing. 


Jul 09, 2019, 07:31

Willemse is an open field runner. We have a few of them. Have had many in the past. They don't suit the Bok brand, not as the focal point of the team. At fullback he is fine, never 10. He doesn't seem capable of manipulating the game strategically. Take away his athleticism and you don't have a rugby player. 

Marcell is a wasted roster spot, so too Lood de Treetrunk and Damian. Schreuder was the leading 9 in SA. 

Jul 09, 2019, 10:13

It really is a sad day when one includes chumps like

Gelant, Dyantyi, Mapimpi, De Allende, Am, Elton Jantjies, Thomas Du Toit, Kolisi, Bongi, Jaques Du Plessis, Frans Steyn, Carthuizen, Beast, Kitshoff, Nyakane, Flo, and Vermeulen into your Bok squad.

That’s more than half of the squad.

Chumps ... the lot of them.

To think that most of you, including the ignorant Dave, rate these players as our best.

Honestly ... are these the boys that’ll take us to WC glory ... or is it just a matter of going over to Japan to do some sightseeing, eat their foods, get mothers on sake and return home with a whole lot of photos ... much like what we saw with the useless Proteas?

Whatever happened to selecting a squad that can actually compete?

Talk about losing the plot.     

 

Jul 09, 2019, 10:37

As per normal - Mozart is correct iro of some plaeyers - but two of the best players available is under attack from him on his normal prejudiced BS - namely De Jager and Coetzee.

Jul 09, 2019, 10:55

It seems that Frans Steyn is playing at an "ELITE" level this year ... and so are Vermeulen and Frans Louw.

Haaaaaaaaaahahahahahaaa!!

Hilarious. 

Lood has been injured most of the last two seasons and to be fair to the Boks, he shouldn't be included. I can't see him picking up any kind of form or confidence with what little matches are left.

Etzebeth hasn't had a good season either. He's just as injury prone and with the limited matches available cannot build any form or confidence in time for the world cup.

As far as I've seen, Marcell Coetzee has had a very good season this year. Is Mozart picking on him cause he'll replace both Flo and Vermeulen on merit? Not sure ... but we both know he's either ignorant or prejudice.

In the end ... dose it really matter what he thinks. I mean, he's a Frans Steyn fan. That says it all, doesn't it?

 


Jul 09, 2019, 13:37

CC

One thing is for sure - with Mozart's record of support of Meyer's selections for the  2015 WC and his support of the losers of the 2019 CWC - it is clear that what he writes about selections better be ignored.   AO is just a pretender - pretending he knows about rugby  - but in fact is a total rugby illiterate,

Taking that into account my selections are as follows:-

Outside backs  

Le Roux, Dyantyi, Nkosi, Lleyds, Mapimpi

Centers

De Allende, Kriel, Serfontein

Flyhalfs

Pollard, Willemse

Scrumhalfs

De Klerk. Reinach, Jantjies

Looseheads

Kitshoff, Schoeman, Nyakane

Tightheads

Malherbe, Koch, Sadie

Hookers

Marx, Brits, Mbonambi 

Locks

Etzebeth, De Jager, Snyman

Back Row

Du Toit, Coetzee, Kolisi, Smith, Vermeuelen

I have serious doubts about Kolisi, but if he is fit to play he will be in the squad,  I also have serious doubts about Mtawarira - he may be in - but Nyakane is to my mind a better choise at present.

I would not touch Frans Steyn, Esterhuizen, Am and Jantjies with a barge pole.  I was hesitating about Vermeulen - and would prefer Elstadt in his place,       




Jul 09, 2019, 13:37

CC

One thing is for sure - with Mozart's record of support of Meyer's selections for the  2015 WC and his support of the losers of the 2019 CWC - it is clear that what he writes about selections better be ignored.   AO is just a pretender - pretending he knows about rugby  - but in fact is a total rugby illiterate,

Taking that into account my selections are as follows:-

Outside backs  

Le Roux, Dyantyi, Nkosi, Lleyds, Mapimpi

Centers

De Allende, Kriel, Serfontein

Flyhalfs

Pollard, Willemse

Scrumhalfs

De Klerk. Reinach, Jantjies

Looseheads

Kitshoff, Schoeman, Nyakane

Tightheads

Malherbe, Koch, Sadie

Hookers

Marx, Brits, Mbonambi 

Locks

Etzebeth, De Jager, Snyman

Back Row

Du Toit, Coetzee, Kolisi, Smith, Vermeuelen

I have serious doubts about Kolisi, but if he is fit to play he will be in the squad,  I also have serious doubts about Mtawarira - he may be in - but Nyakane is to my mind a better choise at present.

I would not touch Frans Steyn, Esterhuizen, Am and Jantjies with a barge pole.  I was hesitating about Vermeulen - and would prefer Elstadt in his place,       

I would have like Kolbe in the mix - but he is too small and two easily handled and kept off the ground (resulting in turnovers) when attacking and defense against the slow and srong opponents will always have problems.   He is just not physical enough. 



Jul 09, 2019, 16:43

I am surprised that Curwin Bosch did not get a call-up, as he is probably the third-best flyhalf in South Africa- and also a decent fullback. 


He can pass, kick and run- albeit he is still a weak defender.


Jul 09, 2019, 16:52

The 2015 WC is not a good hunting ground for you Lügnerin! Shall we recount Steph's disappearing act against Japan, along with Lambie. Kriel was beaten for the game winning try. All three touted as the best players in the world in their position that year. What of Lood's botched handling throughout the WC? Or his totem pole defence for an All Black break out and try? Or Damian famously escorting Nonu to the try line? Or Lambie and Damian being held in check by the USA - only for Morné to come on and spark three try scoring opportunities in less than ten minutes! Malherbe was another flop. Every big pick you made failed in 2015. All the players you attacked were our best performers. You have a very short memory. We should end this embarrassment with your famous "Schalk played fly-half" gaff. Only for Steph to occupy the very same role in 2018 - poorly - and receive a stamp of approval. You never recognised the basic shape of the game. Were you able to, you'd have foreseen Egg Zeus peeking through the clouds eagerly waiting to etch your folly upon your weary face! :D



Esterhuizen and Am were the best centre pair in SA. Both outclassed their rivals, that without a consistent platform up-front. Frans will assuredly be a solid inclusion in the squad. Covering multiple positions. Mapoe is another standout performer. He is a tireless worker, and highly intelligent player with leadership skills. He functions very well under pressure. His positional play is exceptional, as he showed for the Boks last year. He is next in line at 13, behind Am. 

Kolbe should be included. He earned his stripes last year. Was the next best wing, behind Mapimpi. Always in the right place at the right time, punching well above his weight. Was the only wing on to face up to the NH sides on the EOYT. Andries Coetzee and Bosch were the best 15s in SA. We need to be filling our team with smart players. 

We don't need Lood. He offers nothing. Steph shouldn't be playing in the backrow as he is clearly a lock. Is he good enough to make it ahead of Mostert? Eben and RG are our best combo. 

Marcell is not test material. Interesting that you omit Dan du Preez. Is Coetzee going to better Dan, who'd be an improvement over Coetzee at 7 and 8? I'd select JLdP over Coetzee. We don't need Coetzee. Kolisi is unfortunately deadwood that we have to carry. 

Jantjies is the next best 10 in SA. Pollard is clearly #1, but after Jantjies there is a very sharp drop-off in quality. Willemse is no match. 


Jul 09, 2019, 17:27

Herr Auge, please leave Herr Samen be....there are some others in more urgent need.:angel::D

Jul 09, 2019, 21:11

I agree, but there is only so much I can do. I live in hope that the Tokkieloshe will yet surprise us all and see the light. 


Jul 09, 2019, 22:10

Mike there is no stipulation as to how squads should be made up coaches can do what they like so my squad stands.

Shark forget hasbeen Frans Steyn he has been average for the past 3 years so much so that he is stuck at fullback these days.

Forget lightweight Mostert at lock he is a physical liability

Moz you are speaking utter crap - Janse v Rensburg is playing for Sale, Jaco Kriel for Gloucester and Marcel Coetzee for Ulster - what you on about re the level of rugby they are playing

Jul 09, 2019, 22:25

Ja I have heard it all before....the ground game of Marcel, the tackling of Rohan....the sheer physicality of Kleintjie Kriel.

Jul 09, 2019, 23:21

Last I heard you were a big fan of Rohan what the hell happened? You really do show little loyalty to players

Marcel was so good for Ulster he finds himself in the Bok training squad

Jaco Kriel is one of the best running flankers in the game

Jul 10, 2019, 00:08

Rohan looked good when he hit the scene but after a few injuries seemed a bit slower than he was - which has taken away his strength of breaking the line. He is not much of passer or playmaker


Jul 10, 2019, 00:14

The facts intervened. Rohan looked terrific three years ago, but he hasn't developed.

Jul 10, 2019, 00:50

Fact is he spent much of his last season in SA injured and has been on fire for Sale since joining them so your take on his lack of development is unfounded

Jul 10, 2019, 03:04

Coetzee showed the same problems up north. Some exposed, others not so. At test level he won't make it. Not even in his prime could he survive at test level. 

According to RPI, which has proven reliable, Rohan is a long, long way off the pace. 

Jul 10, 2019, 03:16

We have the chorus here who blames the wrong players for the Japan disaster om 2015 and do not realize that Meyer was to blame for a very poor squad selection with at least 8 donkeys who played in less than one game in the series.

The dimmest of all does not realize that when the Japan test team was announced they could not include Alberts and brainless Meyer put Du Toit at 7 - a position he has not played in since 2012.   Bit the main failures that game was Bismarck, Burger, Matfield, Pienaar, Kirchner and De Villiers and there are plenty of reasons why this statement is correct,

Forget about the RPI  it is about as worthless and stupid as you are.       

Jul 10, 2019, 03:58

Alberts played almost no part in the 2015 campaign, yet he is one of the first names you reference. That right there highlights your dishonesty, and how low you have to go to strain your point. 

Whether Steph had 7 or 5 on his back is irrelevant. He was a carrier who could not carry and a defender who was too immobile to handle the Japanese attack. These are issues which have surfaced and resurfaced time and again. 

Bissie conceded around 3 penalties in that game, but he also got over the gainline. I am by no means a Bissie fan, but to place the blame on him for something he didn't do is a disgrace. Schalk and Victor were our two best defenders and our two of our most steady carriers on attack. Victor was everywhere. Pienaar's service was actually quite good, he also created a try. Kirchner was our most potent attacker notching nearly 100m, beating 3 defenders and notching a clean break. He made one poor clearance kick which resulted in a lineout in our 22, which led to nothing, but he is a culprit in the Bok loss? 

Jean was poor. He looked well off the pace. Kriel was poor all game, his greatest contribution was the game losing try. Mvovo was poor aside from one run. Lambie was totally overshadowed by Ono until relieved by Pollard. Habana struggled to get into the game as our centres were nowhere on attack. Coenie conceded a critical penalty. Steph was the invisible man, making about a metre per carry at best at a snail's pace. Every key contributor to the loss was omitted by you, yet you speak of facts. :D

All of this avoids the main point: The Japanese were played at their own game, a game they play as good as anyone in world rugby. Running rugby is the core of the Japanese blueprint and has been in place long before Eddie Jones was a senior level coach. You, like most of the ignorant South African fan base and media, couldn't conceive of these fat, talentless Japanese players actually knowing how to play. I warned many, nobody listened. Even now, the penny hasn't dropped. The rugby landscape is changing quickly and nobody sees it. The only reason why I predicted a Bok win was because I thought they'd use their height advantage and set piece dominance to bludgeon the Japanese and keep them pinned in their half. 

Jul 10, 2019, 06:07

 Alberts played 15 minutes in the WC series from the bench.  He should never have been in the squad anyway - te most stupid of Meyer's stupid selections.

It was not running rugby stooge - it had nothing to do with running rugby at all.   It was a game plan where the ball was constantly passed to the forwards without any rugby being played well by the forwards - who were supposed to be superior to the Ja[anise forwards.   That did not happen because the VC Matfield did NOT follow he game plan/   Burger hits on balls like it was unbelievable and Bismarck was penalized FOUR times,

A serious mess to be expected from a team coached by a seriously defective coach.  Sure the Japanese team is top class - yet it does not show in the tests they play in,    Your warnings are meaningless because you are clueless about the game of rugby.


.

         

Jul 10, 2019, 06:45

This is one of those moments where a person really pulls the rug from under their feet: You think that forwards handling the ball means the team are not attacking? The Boks played a wide-wide pattern that game. Width was not the problem. Attacking was not the problem, aside from the exceedingly poor centre play. None of the players you single out were the problem, none of the play from either side was correctly interpreted by you. My warning was simply: We do not have a primary ball carrier up front to replace Alberts and we cannot play the Japanese at their game with those halfbacks. I was right. 

Burger was arguably the most dynamic Bok, far surpassing the standard Steph set for himself last year. If you want a dead-end bottle-neck. There's your man. In fact, I covered this already. Last year Steph passed 14 times to Schalk's 67 (21.5% to 47.5%). They played an equal number of tests at 7. Who was playing flyhalf? You set yourself up too easily. :D

The most stupid of Meyer's selections were: Lambie over Morné, Lood over Flip, Kriel over Serfontein. He clearly had hopes of Alberts finding some kind of form. It didn't happen, and he was thus never a factor. Had he been utilised, that would have been a different story altogether. 

Either way you slice it. Damian lost the Aussie test in the RC, Kriel lost the Japan test, Lood and Damian lost the All Black test. Big moments bundled by mediocre players. You fell for every one of them. 

Now you are trying to convince me that 66 is less than 50. That 10 is less than 7. That 5 is higher (ranking) than 2. This has to be an all time low. Even by your standards. :silly:

Jul 10, 2019, 10:03

Jantjies is nowhere near test standard and he failed ion every test he played in,   What have you seen   

Go and see the stats and come and tell me that they payed a wide game against the Japanese.  The ball carries was in the main by Birger and he got the ball from the scrummie - stand-in fluha;f who knocked on four balls.    Your idea of a wide game is weird and totally not happenuing,   

The most stupid of Meyer's selections were the 8 players who played one game and never started for the Springboks,  Morne was SHIT for years - the worst flyhalf we had since 1992.    Flippie was useless for years and Lood saved some face in the Japan test and is a class act.  Alberts was never a loosie - too slow and too poora  player top platy as a loosie.   Ask Read how easily he ran past Alberts in the 2013 test in Johannesburg.

The players you listed as losing tests are totally devoid of truth and represent  lies from the word go.  ,  .      

 
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