....like Richie McCaw. Ready to captain the Boks at the RWC in 2023. Good old Nick a sycophant in mid season form.
....like Richie McCaw. Ready to captain the Boks at the RWC in 2023. Good old Nick a sycophant in mid season form.
If Kolisi could compete on the ground like a good fetcher he could be wrapped in cotton wool. Until then, the cotton wool could be wrapped in other cotton wool.
"Good old Nick a sycophant in mid season form."
What we call a "gatkruiper" in Afrikaans.
Unlike many on here, I actually value Kolisi as player, but he's not more important than any of the other cogs that clicked into something more than the sum of the parts.
Kolis had a great year in 2016, however, he is not an openside flank. He is a smallish number 8
Kolisi....a slowish centre....de Wet Barry was more physical and a better fetcher.
de Wet Barry more physical than Kolisi is the biggest load of shit I have read in ages
Kolisi is a great 6, not a fetcher but our best attacking forward
He is a class act
Saf, very good attacking forward indeed...agree with the class act....and there's really no one else making a credible challenge for the position, so I really don't get the complaints...not like the next Schalk Burger is breaking the door down.
Interesting that the Stormers were playing him at 8. Wonder if Rassie suggested this, or it was the Stormers coach Dobson.
Mallett also suggested in a recent discussion that SA rugby be re-organized and that there be only four major teams on the second level of rugby in SA, namely -
* The Sharks
* The Stormers
* The Lions and Bulls be united in one team
* And that the Kings be built up as the 4th major SA team.
The problem is that the way to go will be to sell of the Kings - there was talk that the owner of Toulon may be interested. SARU will certainly help him through allocation of players and players like Kolisi and Am could lead the team.
What do you think of that one?
I’ve never got the negative surrounding Kolisi - but then we get those who don’t rate de Allende, Kriel, Serfontein, PSDT, Lood etc so hardly surprising
Kolisi has always been great - is a powerhouse, seems to always slip the first tackle and set up attacks. Also one of our biggest hitters in defence.
He has never been primarily tasked with winning the ball on the ground, something he is quiet capable of doing anyway.
Turning the ball over is no longer a role assigned to some but now a role for all. Kolisi splays as our attacking/linking forward.
I prefer Kolisi to Schalk - give me Siya any day
Great player, great captain
Jaco Kriel was his only real challenger but he was never given enough opportunity and injury got in the way. Great player
Kwagga showed so much promise at Super level but is yet to replicate at test level
Shaun Venter of the Sharks looks the real deal and the best new prospect at 6
Mike Mallet should keep his trap shut suggesting the Lions and Bulls combine and that the utterly useless Kings be invested in
De wet Barry’s hits made Kolisi’s hits look like a Mosquito bite. A bog ordinary player for years suddenly lifted by the Bok success....ditto the Duds. As for Kleintjie Kriel....not international material, even Kolisi is a better bet.
Our best attacking forward is RG, then Duane. Kolisi is lazy, passive and the bulk of his tackle numbers are unnecessary tackle assists, often just barely adding more than a hand or two. He is nothing more than a hollow token selection because of the sob story that people eat up. He is not worthy of being a Bok. He never was. He is a back masquerading as a forward. He should have been a centre. He has already outshone Damian in that capacity a few times, and José Erasmus most often groups him with Willie and Kriel out wide any way - keeping him mostly out of heavy traffic. He is no threat on the ground and isn't a significant carrier where there is little space, or in the vicinity of heavy hitters. He has no impact on defence either. Like Damian and Steph, he is a nice guy, but not a good rugby player. He may have been one had he realized his potential amongst the backs. To say that he could apply more physicality that Barry is laughable. In fact, I'd diagnose that as insanity. Barry was feared. He also ended the career of Kefu. In fact, his defence singlehandedly turned that 2003 test in our favour. When did Kolisi ever impact a test with even a single quality tackle, much less derail an entire gameplan with multiple pressures and tackles? Not many Boks can claim that level of influence. I'd have to list the likes of Frans, Esterhuizen, Bakkies, Schalk, Fourie, Butch et al for examples of such influence.
The ignorant fool at it again - hi s list of feared players is hugely finny.- LMAO,
Esterhuizen derailed Australia's entire attacking game twice, doing what noone else could do: Stop Kerevi dead in his tracks on his own! His accurate and clever movement off the ball repeatedly catching attackers well behind the gainline, and forced them to either abandon the wide game or force the pass early and diminish their effectiveness. Fourie has saved entire tests with great defence, shall we recall the home Kiwi test of 2010, where the All Blacks had us on the ropes for the first 30 minutes? His four intercepts prevented certain tries and that helped us soak up enough pressure to get into the contest and squeeze New Zealand out of the remainder of the game, a game where we nearly nilled them! The combination of Butch, Frans and Fourie was so feared that teams were very reluctant to challenge us physically in the interior. It was absolutely brutal, but the containment was so tight that the opposition were corralled into tight lanes for big hits irregardless. Schalk was a menace on defence, and is the only Bok I have ever seen who made three successive tackles in a row, and not close to one another. Bakkies was Bakkies. In fact, no true Bok fan would require an explanation for why these names have been influential on defence. A true Bok fan would have known these things.
I don't agree that Kolisi is our best player, he had a great World Cup final game and that he must be given credit for, but he only lasted for 51 minutes and is not a player that can play a full game
He is definitely not a power tackler, but more or of an opportunistic tackle. Watch the game between SA and AB during the championship. Kolisi got bull dozed over the try line. I will not want him in my last line of defence. Louw made a huge difference and got stuck into close down the game. The same for the World Cup final.
Rubbish, that you no longer have players to compete on the deck. Louw showed how should be done.
Kolisi is also never near the fringes, he always shift out wide and never make the first hit, he is always assisting tackles or pushing up on to the scrum halve
He is definitely good on attacks, but doesn't come close to Tom Curry or Ardie Savea
So to me he is not world class
Esterhuizen's defense was found wanting in some of the tests he played in. I can remember looking at 6 tests he played in in 2018 in which he made 22 tackles missing 5 - in five tests De Allende played in he made 42 tackles and missed 5.
Esterhuizen is also clumsy with poor ball skills - those are two more reasons why Erasmus would rather go with Steyn - who also did not really make the grade in the WC.
The players you mentioned were slow and poor in all aspects bar tackles in TRAFFIC - they were useless in most tests from a general defense perspective, Steyn was poor in defense for years starting off in the 2007 WC when he missed four tackles. His defense on Super Rugby level was a joke as well. That is why it was extremely dicey to play him at center - that is why Plumtree clearly said he is NO center at all.
By the way - since Fransie did not play in the 2010 tests against New Zealand - you must have meant the most useless flyhalf in the history of SA Rugby - Morne Steyn. He became a total liability in defense in the Meyer years as was evident in many matches. Morne a good defender - blaas my siel. Another idiotic comment from the biggest dud ever on site, LMAO
The openside is in the best position on the field to make turnovers.
de Wet Barry was utterly useless - Kolisi would have snapped him like a little twig
Kolisi has been our best attacking forward for years, the stats support that
Jaco Kriel is pure class probably the best running openside in the game.
At 100kg saying he is small is laughable - same size as the best in the business in Hooper and Savea - case closed
"Shaun Venter of the Sharks looks the real deal and the best new prospect at 6"
Hooper and Savea, the best in the business....thanks for endorsing my pick of Savea over DudToit.
Who is that stupid?
I’m not stupid enough to pick Savea as an blindside at 100kg
Savea is best suited to openside and possibly 8, certainly not a blindside
So no, Savea is nowhere near as good as PSDT as a blindside for when Savea does play blindside, he does not play like a blindside should - he always plays his rugby like an openside regardless of where he scrums down.
NZ lack balance with Savea at blindside it’s probably part of the reason they are slipping much like wasting Barrett at 15.
Agreed Rooi and yes James Venter - the Lions discard - what a poor indictment of the Lions that they let him slip by hardly picking him
So all the NZ coaches are stupid......Savea is better than any flank we have, blindside or open side. And he is in a different league to Kolisi.
They are stupid if they play him at blindside yes
I’d take Savea over Kolisi buts that’s where it ends - Kolisi is next when it comes to open sides along with Hooper
Kolisi only survives internationally because of the brawn of the Bok pack, because Vermeulen and Marx can compete on the deck.....and because Louw can come on in the critical last 15 minutes, as in the Wales semi.
This is a sentimental pick Dave
Crap the game has changed - gone are the days that your openside was the one effecting turnovers - every player is adept at doing that and it’s every players role to try effect a turnover when in a position to do so including Kolisi which we have seen him do.
Kolisi’s strength is his strength - he busts tackles and sets up attacks - he plays as a linking openside, one who is most effective with ball in hand. He also happens to be one of our heaviest defenders. He is our only forward who provides some pace to the equation. The rest are all brawn and take the direct route.
Kolisi role is certainly not defined by turnovers effected for if he was, he would not be in the side. Every player in the Bok side is a merit selection. You don’t win a WC and march up the rankings carrying passengers.
I have always rated Kolisi highly and he would definitely be my 6 if I was selecting my best Bok side right now. The fact that he is a good leader is secondary
Kolisi at the WC:
Against ABs....4 runs for 3 metres/0breaks/0 defenders beaten. 8 tackles/3 missed
Against Japan 3 runs for 2 metres/0 breaks/0 defenders beaten. 11 tackles/0 missed.
Against Wales 2 runs for 16 metres/1 break/ 0 defenders beaten. 8 tackles/0 missed.
Against England 3 runs for 7 metres/ 0 breaks/0 defenders beaten.13 tackles/0 missed.
He also coughed the ball up 3 times in these matches.....a process tackler and ineffective runner who never beat one tackle against top level opposition In the whole World Cup. A passenger who made for a nice story.
Good point Mozart, did he actually steal any balls, won any penalties. For me the real Captain was Duane Vermeulen. He is 33, stayed the entire final on the field and had a massive impact. Was also the captain the Kolisi got substituted
I agree on Vermeulen, the captain stayed on the field when Louw came on and Kolisi departed in the Wales semi final ....with the scores tied at 16 to 16 and the World Cup in the balance. No coach subs his captain at that point unless he is physically impaired. He never subbed Vermeulen.
Kolisi is not defined by a few games in a WC
Just as Vermeulen is not defined by his performances in the RC
Kolisi was good in the WC, was not one of the standouts, much like Vermeulen in the RC
Passenger my arse Kolisi is one of the best open sides in the game
The difference is Vermeulen is a big game player and can lift his level. Kolisi did his best at the WC, the only way he lifts his level is if the game becomes much looser....which doesn’t happen at WCs.
Kolisi is a total non entity. He gives you one big run or two each season and nothing more. He's even a passenger in those open games. It's all too much for him to handle.
Pollard was Captain after Kolisi left he was the Vice-Captain all along and took over. The vice captaincy then went to Du Toit. So you are wrong about Vermeulen,
You are still stuck in the Middle Ages when it comes to rugby, The dead 10 man game is not played anymore whether it is in WC finals or not. We tried it still in 2015 in the semi and we failed. Playing rugby nowadays means scoring of tries and the fact is that we were unsuccessful and consequently failed. You are right about the finals in 1995 and 2007 - when New Zealand and England played the same game as we did.
Remember the norm nowadays is COMPREHENSI VE RUGBY which you obviously do not understand.
So I just went through the stats for the entire World Cup, Vermeulen racked up more minutes, made more meters, more steals than Kolisi
Kolisi best him in only and that is tackling and and tackle success, but then he is an opensider, so you expect your opensider to make more tackles that your 8 man
I wasn't impress with Kolisi in the championship, the year before either. He just can't finish a game and has bulked up too much. He doesn't have the natural physique to carry the wait.
When he was light, he was a far better attacking player, but to me he is a 7 and runs intelligent lines and likes to camp out on the wing.
Kolisi, when lighter, would simply get run over. He still hasn't got much stopping power, but he can break through backline defenders. He doesn't simply like to hang out wide, he is specifically positioned wider. He is often the forward paired with the 13 and 15 out wide, and can function as a cleaner for wide carries. We often hear about how powerful individual forwards are, but the power of the Boks is in their organization around the field. Groups of two and three supporting the carrier to ensure that possession is not only secured but controlled. This aspect of the Bok game is actually quite good. If you go back to the All Black loss in the WC, you'll see how the likes of Malherbe (who I actually like at 3) was a tick of the pace, and that really didn't. We looked more in control than we actually were, as the All Blacks kept us at arms length. Kolisi is a better candidate for centre, his handling isn't much worse than that of most of our centres - our distribution skills are actually quite weak across the board. He is passive, but he has explosive ability. As a forward, his defence is weak. It really depends on how he is utilized. I don't and won't see him as a true forward. As a blindsider, he is way off the mark for what the Boks require; as an opensider, he has been a passenger and a liability. To think, Brussow was omitted because of his height and for not being a lineout option; Kolisi has been almost always a designated receiver at lineouts and is inferior in every way to the great Brussow as a carrier, defender and pilfer, as well as being much stronger, tougher, more intelligent and mentally switched on (proactive). One is heralded as some kind of deity, the other discarded. Only in SA. Nothing quite like it.
Francois Pienaar and John Smit were not the best players in their positions when they won their Rugby World Cups...the Bok Captaincy has always been about more than just playing ability...that does not mean that they were undeserved passengers in the side...it is not always possible to judge the value of a player within a team setup by his performance n the pitch...we don't get to see the inner workings of the team...weak teams don't win world cups...we had some luck, but our victory was no fluke.
Smit was elite as a player and leader. You cannot begin to ever compare the two. Every hooker that was said to be better failed to live up to the hype. That includes Gary Botha and Bismarck, the two biggest threats. Chili came closest in 2010 to 2011. Kolisi isn't just "not the best in his position", he is a total absentee most of each game and has no leadership ability or presence on the field. If we have to have a black captain, I'd go Bongi now, but even Beast was a better bet in the run up to the last WC. Rassie needlessly hamstrung the team by electing Kolisi. You can't tell me he has been better than Louw or Kwagga for wholesome production.
Bad news for you - my little Jack Russell died yesterday suddenly at the age of over 18 years. Why I mention this is because he had more knowledge of rugby than you do.
Smit was a slow player - at times he was used as a prop. He was perhaps good in defense in traffic - but rarely seen outside of that. He could not make open field tackles and never played a role at breakdowns.
I am afraid that Bismarck was a much better all round player at hooker and that is a fact. .
"...it is not always possible to judge the value of a player within a team setup by his performance n the pitch..."
Disagree Moz, Kolisi has more than proved himself in both tight and open games considering most games are tight these days
Every game in the RC is a big one where Vermeulen did not raise his game - he was at best solid
Smit was a good player and great leader but Bismark was the better player and should have started ahead of Smit much earlier on in his career
Kolisi is just as good a player as Smit was
Bismarck was too upright in contact, his footwork into contact was poor. He was an ineffective carrier. His mobility on defence was poor, and his hands were below average. He was never a good lineout thrower. We saw a better Bismarck in 2015, when, for whatever unknown reason, he added a few elements to his game to circumvent his flaws. He could steal ball at the breakdown if he got his hands on it, but was, again, due to his body position, often rolled over like a turtle. He lead Super rugby three years for turnovers conceded, and was top 6 for 7 years. This was significantly more than any possession he won at the breakdown. He ranked very high for penalties conceded too. He was not better than Smit, he was merely stronger than Smit.
Kolisi is the Damian of loose forwards. He is nowhere near adequate for a Bok jersey. He is the only true quota in the team. He doesn't deserve to be in the squad, he offers the Boks nothing. He has produced nothing aside from four big runs (most leading to nothing) and a break to put Damian away for a try. That's it. His leadership is a figment of your imagination. Watching the likes of Eben and Thor spur the team on, and give powerful messages on the pitch, with Kolisi watching on... it just makes me lose respect for those who laud him as a talismanic figure. He isn't.
All I can say is that if Omlet-Angie here starts slagging off a player then you should probably re-evaluate that player because he's better than you originally thought.
Baboon-ou and ou Maaik are understandably regarded by many here as the two stupidest posters we've ever had but when it comes to pure rugby matters, Omlet-Angie has them both stone cold.
Agreed Rooi - the guy is a fucking nut case when it comes to rugby. I can’t read a full post of his it bores me to death with how out of touch he is. His take on players is the worst I’ve ever seen and that says a lot given how bad Moz is when it comes to a players credentials.
But I like Moz, can’t say the same about the fool. Best of all is that he does not realise how rugby stupid he is. He thinks he is some sort of rugby authority
Well I guess he is an authority on getting things wrong
The best one was "I always trust my eyes", and then to deny video evidence, in slow motion, of Lood missing a tackle. Only you were left, foul-mouthed, in defiance. How many other times? No, you have nothing on me Saffy, neither you, nor Not-Mozart, who darted for cover when I took up his challenge regarding Steph. The two of you can throw insults, but certainly can't talk rugby. The one has fantasy twaddle, the other long lists. Not-Mozart and Lister.
I read your comments on rugby players and performances with utter amazement - to be quote frank it is meaningless because what you wrote is exactly opposite to what actually happened insofar a player performances are concerned,
That is why when you make wild statements about players I accept that you are rugby ignorant and deserving pity. I then accept that whatever you wrote the complete opposite is true/
By the way deadhead - I watched a video clip where ITV gave the top six players n the WC last year, There were four Springboks listed, namely Mapimpi, Kolbe, Vermeulen and De Allende
Oh bullshit Aug you are lying about the Lood incident but I’m more than happy for you to bring it up again
I’m never wrong and you are lying about me being defiant
Can’t talk rugby huh - let me guess, you can???
Hard to believe there are those who pump Lomp and Kolisi, when it’s so obvious Eben and Thor were way more important to the cause.
Some of us value the whole team effort and enjoy the crown without looking for negatives....there will always be problems...there are no perfect teams...some teams in history got close...AB team of a few years ago...mid 80s Bok team...McBride's Lions...not many teams...our current team might not be in the same league, but we deserve the RWC...and all the accolades that comes with it....pity the bloody virus put a stick in our spokes...
That’s not the point though... the Duds and Kolisi have been pumped big time. What have we heard about Thor, Pollard and especially Etzebeth. Even Faf is somewhat of an after thought. I don’t rate Kolisi and the Duds that much, but if some do, have at it....let the rest of us celebrate the guys who were indispensable to our WC win.
Hell Etzebeth hardly gets a mention....total nonsense.....he is by far our most dominating forward.
I've celebrated the team since the first warmup match vs Japan...all of them...even the ones who I had my doubts about convinced me in the end. This team had something extra...
IMO the emphasis should be on the team and not any individuals...isolating certain players for praise/blame results in tit for tat arguments...some are hyped too much, others not appreciated enough...it is a team sport after all.
Vermuelen needs to be kept in cotton wool or preferably frozen cryogenically. He is 34 so he will probably not make it to the next world cup. He should still be a key player against the B&I Lions.
Vermuelen was good in the final. He was a key decision-maker, taking many of the kickoffs.
The points that have been raised about Damian and Steph have been proven to be fact. That is inescapable and irrefutable. There is little point in resisting this. If you want to simply enjoy the win, then that's fine, you don't have to involve yourself in the discussion, but if you do, then you will face these facts each and every time.
In your deranged mind it may be assumed? You are right and the rest of the rugby world is wrong - go figure that one out,
The rest of the Rugby world doesn’t give a toss about the Bok players....we won the WC .....they had to make a fuss about a few Boks. So they chose Kolisi for obvious reasons, despite the fact that he was a statistical zero. Dud Toit because the SA press said he is the next coming even though he was a non factor in half of a blindsider’ s duties. And Dud Allende because Biggar tried to strip him instead of tackle and the Tractor who was in donkey low went over the line in slow motion, much to his own great surprise.
Players who made a real difference....the Beast, Etzebeth, Louw, Vermeulen, Faf, Pollard and Kolbe. The rest were fungible. But why would we expect anything intelligent from our scribes and fans.
The rest of the SA does not give a toss when a few members on this site write BS about certain players and deliberately lie in the process, So less than half of the team contributed to the team winning the world cup. You write BS all the time. about player contribution and then think that you are correct. Louw was on the field for 18 minutes out of the full game - yet shit head Mozart had to name him.
You also mislead the members on that crucial 5 minutes when the English were attacking in the Boks 22 - the three most important tackles. was made by Malherbe on Billy Vunipola twice nd Du Toit on Young. Malherbe kept Vunipola twice from crossing the line. He was the key to the defense in that period. So another misleading statement exposed.
As to the semi-final De Allende beat three defenders in scoring the try - that was the tru th - not the lie you peddled.
Louw’ s turnover assured the semi for us, which until that point was tied with Wales in our half.
Most tackles in the goal line stand were made by Mostert who was constantly moving to the point of danger. Malherbe helped him stop Vunipola once. Malherbe and DudToit both made 11 tackles and missed one....not bad. Mostert made 15 tackles and missed none.....defensive player of the game,
As for Dud Allende he beat 3 tackles all game against Wales......so you are saying he beat no tackles in his other 10 runs. Toothless either way.
De Allende's try assured the game for the Springboks
Go and watch that fie minutes again and see what really happened before you come back with further BS. In the semi - where Louw was on the bench - I give him credit for the turnover, but not for the penalty he conceded - which directly let to the Wales try.
As it was the turnover happened in the Springbok half of the field between the ten meter line and the halfway line - but not in any position of danger for the Springboks. By the way Louw was never going to be a starting Springbok in that series and was a bench player at best. .
Wrong the Dud try was matched by the Adams try.....the match was only decided in minute 76 by the pressure Pollard penalty. Facts matter.
Who gave away the penalty that got the Welsh into the Springboks from where they attacked untol Davis's try - ask Louw about that one.
Another issue was the defense of Mostert and Louw - it was downright poor, Louw played 40 minutes combined in the semi final Louw made 2 tackles and in the final 3 - ie 40 minutes played - he made 5 tackles and he was supposed to be a loosie
Ask Dud Toit about not defending his side of the scrum....getting trapped and creating the overlap. The Adam’s try was handed to him on a plate by Dud’s lack of agility. Thank heavens we never encountered a free flowing team like the ABs Who could have targeted the lock playing flank.
But thanks for raising the try it almost skipped my mind.
Disagree no blindside would have made an impression on that blindside try
Blaming Steph is like saying Mostert never missed tackles in the WC final
Wrong......Faf committed himself to tackle the Welsh number 8, who offloaded to the scrummie ......but Dud who should have shifted onto the scrummie stayed bound too long, and got trapped behind Faf. That opened the lane.
It was a simple mistake no experienced blindsider would have made, but of course Dud is a bit of a blindside noob, more of an experienced lock.
Fortunately the Louw turnover and Pollard’s great kick saved a match and a World Cup t hat was totally up for grabs after Dud’s mistake.
Another lie exposed and this was discussed in the past and the lie was exposed - whereupon Mozart went quiet. There were two players between Du Toit and the scrummie and there was physically no way di Toit could have got to the scrummie while the scrum turning away from where De Toit was scrumming, That on its own prove that Mozart is up to his normal shit again. .
No the ‘lie’ was never exposed. You just ran out of dumb arguments, so there was no need for me to school you again. Any experienced flank realizes he’s has to be able to disengage instantly once the ball is cleared. Dud stayed bound too long.
And how can a flank be blocked on his side of the scrum I ask with tears in my eyes. And the scrum never turned....Faf tackled Moriarty and Dud needed to get outside them, .....he didn’t but the Welsh scrummie did.
Amateur mistake .
Dud makes lots of mistakes. Each and every test, aside from the home Wallaby win of 2018 and the Twickenham test of the same year, is littered with shocking play. He is a tick too slow to react and over commits. Passive players make the same errors repeatedly without learning. How many times does he have to be stepped or taken out of play from a rush with inside leverage before he learns to adjust? We are talking years of the same pattern of behaviour. Unbelievable. I wish I could get employee of the month awards for half heartedly applying myself and getting things wrong. What an easy life!
Thanks for writing what you did. When yiu rite sonething on site - the exac opposye of what you write is true.
You have one ability in rugby performance evaluation which other reasonable people lack. After games where you have minutely looked for non-existent mistakes by players you dislike and then write theoretical and physically things and write that up into mistakes made by players, When one of your favorites buggered up badly you blame one of your pet hates for what happened. You do not mind to lie about what actually happened in the process. We have seen it multiple times and it is always unadulterated BS.
Dud got trapped behind Faf because he stayed bound too long and wasn’t alert.... that forced Am to come inside....which created a simple overlap. It was all painfully obvious and basic schoolboy stuff. Dud covers the scrummie, no try would have been scored.
Fortunately Louw made that epic turnover.