Our losing ways continue.....and there is a simple reason

Forum » Rugby » Our losing ways continue.....and there is a simple reason

Jun 22, 2019, 18:03

The Bools tackle at 82% vs 89% for the Canes.....and time and again there are clear overlaps with Hendricks in particular lined up on Umaga on several occasions.

The Sharks were worse....they tackle at 74 % vs the Brumbies 87%. There's the match right there.

And those stats don't even reflect devastating, unchallenged clean breaks like Powell's break and try.

Our tackling was sub standard and defensive alignment was pathetic, with literally no defence behind the breakdown several times.

Why is this happening to a nation that has always been top in defence? Because it's no longer valued.....it isn't sexy. Offloading is and we have got better at that. No forward in the game offloads better than RG Snyman. But we have lost more than we have gained......tackling, defensive alignment, setpiece dominance and the kick chase.

For us to be better than the Proteas at the WC we need to get the basics right.....particularly defence. We also need better selections.

The players who put their hands up today included:

Kriel who drifted nicely outside Umaga....for the Bools first try. But he remains a finisher only.

Hendricks who's scored two spectacular winger's tries with a body swerve à la Jannie Engelbrecht.

RG Snyman who is now our best 5 by some distance.

Vermeulen whose work on the deck kept us in the game.

And in the Sharks game Nkosi had an energetic game.

That's a total of 5 stand out players out of our 2 top teams. Not encouraging in a playoff style weekend.

Jun 22, 2019, 18:34

The lack of clean breaks on attack, and low try rate of SA teams is probably a bigger issue than the defence. 

SA teams were amongst the lowest number of tries scored. The backs once again struggled to catch and pass. 

The Sharks defence around the rucks was pathetic today. No flyhalf or fullback defence, or loosies to cover mistakes by the tight five. A clean break and it was a try..

Jun 22, 2019, 19:14

The reason that happens is our guys are never at pace before they get the ball. The Bools tried that with Kotze at the start of the game....but Kotze overran the ball.

Our outside backs should look at the Joe Cool tape.

Jun 23, 2019, 07:03

I always regarded Mozart from a rugby perspective as a one-eyed genius dealing with only two topics.   The one is defending and the other is kicking the ball away,   He never realized what defense really entailed and came out with a story about that there are nothing lie aimless kickin handing over possession to the opposition.  

For the rest he is as flat as a pancake.   Ball skills is not a question and that is why he remained totally committed to having a game plan where he never mentioned a player makin 20 plus tackles and always concentrated on 1 missed tackle as the norm.  For him a player makin 20 tackles and missing 2 is less valuable than a player making 7 tackles missing 1.  

So his game remains that of the supporter of kicking as a norm and defense as a false norm.  


Jun 23, 2019, 07:20

Gosh that's subtle....how does balls skills not being 'a question' lead to not mentioning a 'player who made 20 plus tackles'....which I assume is code for 20 Stephanie process tackles.

Jun 23, 2019, 12:43

The Bulls had sIxty eight percent possession but only scored 1 try. All this is not solely about defence.

Te Brumbies had 32% and scored 5. Like to see our teams with 32% and outscoring their opponents 5 to 1.

The biggest factor to me is the inability to score tries whilst not down playing the crucial value of defence.

The ability of other teams to unlock defences as compared to ours is very apparent. We are way behind.

Jun 23, 2019, 15:32


What game have you been watching?   The Bulls scored four tries (one a penalty try).   So did the Hurricanes.   The Sharks played the Brumbies.    

Jun 23, 2019, 15:35


What the f#ck is a "process tackle"?   I asked you in the past and all you came up was your standard BS,    I got it  though -'

*    "Process Tackles"  are made by your pet hate players:

*     Tackles are made  by your favourites.  -  rare as that may be.


Jun 23, 2019, 15:59

Read my post Mike I was clearly referring to the Sharks game. 

Those stats are telling as Mallet pointed out. 

Jun 23, 2019, 16:01

Sorry Mike that opening sentence should read Sharks. 

Jun 23, 2019, 17:29

A process tackle is a nothing tackle made by the first or second tackler in phase play.....the runner is not trying to beat the tackle simply commit a few defenders and maybe get a metre or two. Think Stephanie running with the ball.....most of the tackles made on him are process tackles....and most of the tackles he makes are process tackles.

High counts in runs or process tackles are garbage stats......if the player wasn't involved somebody else would have been with no material difference.

Jun 23, 2019, 17:57

A routine (process) tackle is when a ball carrier runs into a tackle/r to set up the next phase from the ensuing ruck. The objective is to go to ground quickly to allow the ruck to be cleared quickly. 

Jun 23, 2019, 23:12


Jun 24, 2019, 08:30

Nice explanation by idiots as expected,

Jun 30, 2019, 02:24

Super rugby doesn't prioritise defence like it once did. The foundation of the game is gone. A team with shambolic set pieces can still be viable for progressing deep into the competition. Rucks aren't as strongly contested as up north, so the ball is recycled quicker, which means defenders are more concerned with running back into the line for another rugby league type stop. 

As far as clean breaks are concerned, the Lions ranked 4th with 190. The Bulls 7th with 180. Then our sides drop off with the Sharks at 12th with 156 and the Stormers 16th (bottom) with 133. The Shark backs struggled for a platform most of the competition as a result of poor ball retention from the forwards. Their possession was too erratic with very little control. A lot of uncoordinated muscle. The Stormers were the complete opposite, as their forwards were extremely well drilled and moved around the field with precision, laying a very good platform for the backs. They were not able to use that platform. 

Most alarming is the style of play utilised by the Stormers, as it matches up very well with what Rassie implemented last season. An over-concentration of dead-end possession at 12. The patterns were very similar, although with much less kicking - in-spite of Damian kicking more than usual. It didn't work at Super rugby level, and as we saw on the EOYT, it won't work against the NH. I'll be interested to see what Rassie conjures up later this month. 

Jun 30, 2019, 02:51

Draw and pass seem to be a skill that is not natural or coached by SA players, given how poor it was in some games. Delayed supporting runs with varying angles is a rare thing in our teams. When backline skills are displayed, it is usually individualistic - and not practised moves. 

As usual, the SA team forwards did lots of work, but they can't dominate every match - and need backs that can create space. 

Sometimes the New Zealand teams have a forward in the backline that reduces tempo. South Africa usually has a backline that plays like small forwards.

Jun 30, 2019, 03:15

The forwards and the backs interlock. Traditional backline structure doesn't exist for the most part, in favour of rugby league shapes. Since the ELVs it's more about disguise behind screens. Pre-ELVs it was about angles of running and close quarter passing. Skills have regressed at an alarming rate over the past ten years. Our players tend to attack from too deep, with little momentum. We have almost no players who can pass with length off either hand. Our halfbacks are a 2/10 compared to what we had as far back as 2002. Our 9s excel at a short ball to a POD runner who will give it to 10 or 12 or carry it up. That right there is the core repertoire of most of our ball movement. For the Boks, last season, the distribution chain was almost entirely 9-Kick, 9-7-Ruck, 9-F-10, 9-F-10-12-Ruck, 9-F-10-15 (run out of space or get caught deep). The teams with the most success getting past the edge of the defence concentrate possession at 13 more than 12 and have a higher percentage of possession at 11 and 14, who pass as well as run. They come into the line in more creative ways. At present, only Mapimpi offers this. To a lesser degree Kolbe and Hendricks. 

Defence is the quickest way to improve a team as its predicated upon cohesive structures. Attack is all about breaking down a structure. You can't rely solely on patterns as context is key. Do we have the thinkers to find that context? For the New England Patriots in the NFL, their plays incorporate option routes. Receivers must make upwards of 4 decisions between 2 to 5 seconds. Brady averages 2.4 seconds per release, so they don't have much time. The team will choose a slightly lesser talent that is intelligent over a naturally talented player who isn't. Receivers must see the field the way Brady (the QB) does. It's the only way the offence maintains its flexibility and cohesion. The All Blacks train a repertoire of 2 and 3 man plays - all stemming from league - and teach them context: Attacking specific defensive shapes. I have noted in the past how our players, even after many years of playing the game, can't sense pressure. Time after time we saw Damian running into the teeth of the defence when he could have chosen a better line or passed. This shows an inability to recognise basic shapes and an inability of many of our players to see how those shapes can be attacked. This is what we have always lacked. As these players strain to compete against the murky picture in front of them, skills break down, because they are not coordinating their efforts. 

Jun 30, 2019, 06:26

Watching the Canes today.... their strike runners tended to attack the outside shoulder of their assigned defender vs the South African favourite inside step. Done well, especially on a forward it commits the next tackler and produces a gap to exploit.

Far too many of our centres....Vorster, Stepfontein, Allende, Odendaal are all serial inside steppers.

Jun 30, 2019, 10:38


If you did watch the game you would notice that the Hurricanes played a more effective game in the second half than they did in the first half,   The reason was obvious - much less aimless kicking in the second half.   Thy were just handing over possession in the first half.

Since you and are an expert in center play I do take note of your comments as per normal. 

Jun 30, 2019, 10:50

AO is back -welcome.

Nice quotes from rugby theorists again - but he is clueless as to what actually happened.  The sharks backline did not function well at all - matter of fact their problems started with their Tight 5 - but when the ball did go to their backline they buggered up badly.   They have had a serious problem at 10 and 12 (the latter being pace-deficient) and their backline defense was really poor,

Take for instance the Brumbies quarterfinal where the Sharks had 68% ball possession and their backline could not do anything constructive.   68% ball possession should have been better-utilized by their backline.     

The Stormers struggled throughout the series with injuries to key players like Etzebeth, Schickerling and Du Toit so their forwards were not without problems.   They basically have had a problem at 10 - for the rest their backline was effective.  Real stats will show that the backline players scored most of their tries,     

Jun 30, 2019, 12:03

This is very interesting. Here are the missed tackle stats for the regular season. For backline players, of course: 

  1. Bulls: 168
  2. Sharks: 128
  3. Stormers: 160
  4. Lions 162
Why must you insist on bringing a potato peeler to a gun fight? As per speed deficient? You must believe that the role of 12 is to run laterally into the touchline, passing to a player several inches away in the face of five defenders. If Andre could crab faster we'd be in business eh? In truth, your fanciful little narrative hasn't stood up to video scrutiny. Yet in predictable Mike fashion you prattle the same nonsensical aberrations whilst rocking in a dark corner. Spare yourself the exertion at your age and opt for the thumb suck. 

Here are some stats of note: 

The Stormers concentrated 6.8% of possession in the hands of 12, only 2.8% went to 13. They had trouble getting wing participation. The Sharks backs, in spite of their forwards letting them down, in spite of being on the back foot generated more momentum and distributed the ball more. Their outside backs saw more space and more possession. There was no bottleneck. The best backline in South Africa is in Durban. The centre pairing were a cut above the rest. In fact, Andre was the only noteworthy 12 on display. At 13, Am and Mapoe.

The Stormers backs were the lowest scoring backline in South Africa. They also contributed the fewest try assists in South Africa. With a better platform to play from, they were eclipsed by the Sharks, Bulls and Lions. Real stats indeed. :D

Jun 30, 2019, 12:57

Welcome back Organhuffer!

What puzzles me is that we see kiwi and even Oz backlines operating on a weekly basis. We don't have to reinvent the wheel. 

All we have to do is what the Japs did. Copy. 

When you can't even copy well enough you have ask why. 

Are players simply are not good enough, including smart enough?

But then consider the dramatic improvement in the Bok backline when Jake brought in Eddie Jones. 

We do not have great coaches particularly backline or attack coaches. Next we are being ravaged  by player departures so we don't get the necessary continuity and lose great talent.

Solve these problems and things will improve dramatically. 

See the bigger picture oaks before getting into the minutia. 

Jun 30, 2019, 14:03

The Bok backline didn't take off until the very moment Frans came on at 12. We played our normal counter-attacking rugby, aside from a few moves. Japan has had a culture for backline play for decades. A very intellectual culture with good work ethic using their resources the best they can - compensating for a traditional lack of forward power. 

I agree that we do not have great coaches, but there is nothing stopping a player from improving himself. If I can identify areas of concern, what can't these players evaluate their own game? Monty upgraded himself. We don't have to reinvent anything, we also don't have to copy. A little honesty about our player's shortcomings and pro-active coaching. This should also be emphasized at youth level, seeing as so many of our players are slow learners. Teach them how to visualize the game, how to function tactically. That's when we'll see the biggest change in open play.

Jun 30, 2019, 14:34

That too will help. 

BUT why don't we learn fast enough regarding backline play we always are behind. 

I mentioned that even the Sunwolves looked sharper. 

Intellectually we are behind. 

Jun 30, 2019, 15:58

Welcome back Augie.....nice to have some abstract analysis rather than the usual A is better than B nonsense.

Jun 30, 2019, 21:57

Very much appreciated Moz and Herr Sitzsack. I'm sure Mike is just as happy. :D

@Sitzsack: For the most part, Saffers will follow orders and work diligently, as we have seen in the past. They don't ask many questions. The Aussies on the other-hand, the most radical thinking attacking nation in world rugby, is more thoughtful about what they are doing. This is a cultural issue. South Africa doesn't produce many proactive thinkers, and those who do emerge are eventually chased away because they make the lesser minded folk feel uncomfortable about their mediocrity. Listen to how they speak, it's all about positive mindsets, believing, giving everything, pride etc. All emotive bluster. The nations who are developing have an appreciation for detail and an honesty in recognising their shortcomings. You don't see New Zealand lambaste their players with the callousness of Bok "fans", but they don't reward failure either. They also work on their players, retooling them. We don't see very much of that in SA. Andre had to go to Japan to develop skills and the confidence to utilise those skills. Monty was a better player for his Welsh stint, where he finally realised his potential. Fleck said he only learned to offload in Wales. One of the reason why I prefer that our players go abroad is that they are being developed for free, and better than what South Africa can do. When Jake attempted to rebuild the Sharks, the board gave in to the powder-puffs who didn't like to get out of bed in the mornings. Low standards, taking the easy way out, no accountability, no vision, no honesty, passivity, stubbornness. 

Jul 01, 2019, 02:26

Listen dimness

You are talking KAK again.   Fransie came on and there was a kick downfield which he tried to chase - ending up completely out of breath.  For the rest he did ZERO when he came on.

Hell you are too dim to discuss anything with.   You imagine things happening and build cloud 9 stories around it.  

As to the rest - the Coaches were either incompetent or petty tyrants.  I class de Villiers, Coetzee and Meyer as being incompetent for a variety of reasons.  

We need proper coaches that can allow players to use their real abilities and not the duds we have to put up at present.      

Jul 01, 2019, 08:48

Wow, Mozart. Aren't you the analyst.

So to sum up your insightful analysis.

We don't win matches because we ... um ... let me see ...

1. Can't score

2. Can't defend.

3. Can't pass or offload.

4. Don't see an overlap and so waste opportunities that present themselves.

5. Leave gaping holes for the opposition to claim unchallenged clean breaks.

6. Can no longer dominate the set piece.

7. and finally our kick chase is non existent.

Gasp!!!! Really?

You saw all that ... and think that the rest of us didn't?

You are stating the obvious, Mozart ... as usual.


Well ... you have forgotten to include the issues we have at the break down.

Confusing tactical kicking with aimlessly kicking the ball away.

Non existent leadership.

Poor selections and the inclusion of sub standard quotas.

The mass exodus of all our talented white boys.

Coaches like Swyss, Fleck and Robert Du Preez.

All of these issues leave a scar.

There is no quick fix. It will take us decades to undo this mess. A mess that started with Meyer and his integrity ... and then followed by the utter stupidity of Quota Alice Coetzee 

That too is painfully obvious.


Jul 01, 2019, 15:07

Frans came on when the Boks were deep in their 22. He sparked a breakout deep into Samoan territory, releasing JP. That was the tuning point in the game. From there the Boks ran rampant. A stark contrast to the team that was hanging on by a thread for over 40 minutes. 

Nice to see your raw nerves have healed. :D

Jul 01, 2019, 17:29

When was that happening?  In 2007?   Since 2012 he became more and more useless by the hour,  

Jul 01, 2019, 18:38

Carbuncle relax.....our rugby was in no better shape when Jake took over the mess of Mallet's later years and the disaster called Destroyli. He won his first Trinations.

Just like the Obama economy was instantly improved with the injection of competence... ..SA rugby will be instantly improved with the right coach. That coach is not Eraserhead.

Jul 01, 2019, 20:15

And that coach is who?

Jul 01, 2019, 20:52

Dr Moz you know how Rassie has proven you wrong more than once!

Jul 01, 2019, 21:56

What with his 50% record.....I think not!

Jul 01, 2019, 22:05

Agreed our defence has been pathetic with all our sides. The number of one on one tackles missed was simply unacceptable

Jul 02, 2019, 12:35

Frans' 2012 test season is better than any year of Damian's career. Include his domestic rugby and it's as one-sided as can be. That's what this was always about, Frans versus your blue-eyed boy. I see another season of frustration for you. :D

Jul 03, 2019, 11:29

Frans Steyn was a hasbeen 3 seasons ago

Jul 03, 2019, 12:20


Cloud in the sky BS does not count when evaluating players.  Remember those two relieving kicks from the Springbok 22 that rolled along the ground  - which  cost the Springbok points on the june tests against England and the Argentinians.   He was so fat he could not see his feet when trying to make kicks.

That was the only memorable things he did in the 2012 tests,   Since 2012 he was never selected to start for the Springboks and serious good reasons for that.   He was on the bench in one of the Coetzee test and did squat in that test too.   

Your assessment of players are as stupid as you are when I comes to rugby.      

Jul 03, 2019, 14:50

I remember Frans' excellent defence covering of Jean. I remember him salvaging the Puma test. I should go back to those games and produce a video. There was also his cut back against the grain and long pass which sent Mvovo free out wide against Australia. There were many good things. His 2012 season surpasses Damian's entire body of work. In short: You can't splice the entirety of Damian's season and end up with a quality showing like Frans' 2012 test or domestic season. It's that simple.

As for Frans being a has been? The videos I saw last August to September of Frans were hugely impressive. Will that translate over to test rugby? Is he going to be fatigued at this point? I don't know. I can say that aside from Pollard and Andre, there isn't another option I'd like to turn to. At worst he is a utility back with immense test pedigree. Will Damian better his limp 2015 showings? Not likely. A wasted roster spot. 

Jul 03, 2019, 15:58

Yes Mike ... I remember those grubber clearances. It took me an half hour to recover my breath it was so funny.

A professional rugby player doing that. Would never have believed it if I hadn't seen it for myself.  

I saw the idiot playing at 10 for the Barbarians. He tried to show off from his own half with a crack at goal and ended up woer woering the ball a 100m in the opposite direction.

His scrummie walked off shaking his head in bewilderment.

Let's face it ... the man's useless. An embarrassment to South Africa.


Jul 03, 2019, 16:04

Frans has a global ranking of 10 amongst RPI inside centres......Allende is ranked 17. That's the objective conclusion.

Jul 03, 2019, 18:11

I don't want Delande at 12, or anywhere for that matter. He is just too predictable and stupid. He is blessed with the physical assets of speed and strength- but unfortunately the same is not true in the brain department. He is not a decision maker, and would be better suited to playing on the wing- or perhaps taking up another sport. 

Frans Steyn also overdoes the crash ball, but so too does Carthuizen - and pretty much any other SA centre. Frans at least pulls in 2 backline tacklers and allows the ball to be cleared from the ruck quickly. 

Jul 03, 2019, 18:22

Another Frans Steyn dupe who tell us what he does.at center.   It was Plumtree who saw Fat Fransie at center who said he is NO center at all.   And what is more Montpellier said the same and used him at full back for most of the past season and then regused to renew hois comntract with them.  

I rather believe Plumtree than the brain-deficient on site

Jul 03, 2019, 18:22

Another Frans Steyn dupe who tell us what he does.at center.   It was Plumtree who saw Fat Fransie at center who said he is NO center at all.   And what is more Montpellier said the same and used him at full back for most of the past season and then regused to renew hois comntract with them.  

I rather believe Plumtree than the brain-deficient on site

Jul 03, 2019, 18:24

Andre is by no means a carthorse. He is the best distributing 12 we have. His offloading the best I've seen from our 12s. Purposeful offloading, not throwing the ball around creating pressure for the recipient. His defence is monstrous. One of our smarter players. We don't have many good passers in our team. He shouldn't be excluded. 

Jul 03, 2019, 18:27

I would be happy to replace with Frans Steyn with a genuine playmaker at 12, however, the problem is that non exist.

Most are crash balls- I would just rather have a better and more experienced crash ball.

Frans Steyn has big bucks. He has travelled the world and got top of the range salaries- by top coaches and clubs in the world. 
Opinions that matter, unlike a biased brain deficient who has no objectivity. 
Someone that is so desperate to get his point across - they lack balance in any judgements.

Jul 03, 2019, 19:11

You sound like brother Mike! You say Andre is an excessive crashballer, yet he has a near 50/50 split between passing and running. His offloading stats are very good and as video evidence has repeatedly shown, his distribution is purposeful. He creates space as well as soaks up defenders. These aren't opinions, these are facts. Is he better than Frans? That depends on where Frans is at right now. Furthermore, the best attacking sides have their 13 as their playmaker. This is where they inject their outside backs into the game. 12 is part of the attacking unit that creates that space, using alot of unders lines and decoy runs as well as hard nosed running. Andrè has been delivering these things to the t. 

Jul 03, 2019, 19:28

Esterhuizen has added an offload to his game playing for the Sharks. I do rate him- and last season I thought he was easily the best inside Centre in SA during SuperRugby. 

However, he has yet to have one good game for the Boks. Last season was his chance, but he did not take it. 

From the 1st season, I saw Esterhuizen, it was clear that he was an inferior clone to Frans Steyn. (At least the older Frans Steyn).  

Frans does not have the skill or speed he used to due to a knee injury and wear and tear of the game, but he adds power to the midfield. He misses a few tackles, but the brute force of his tackle is traditional Bok rugby. 
His crash ball setups usually pull in two backline players, and the ball is recycled quickly from the ruck. He can pass as well - even if it is not often enough.

Frans Steyn makes Bismaark look small in this photo. Given his size, he is the biggest backline player from SA ever to have skill.  (e.g. the longest goal kicker, the speed of a wing when he was younger, bigger than most loose forwards - a freak of nature). 

Image result for frans steyn bismarck du plessis

Jul 03, 2019, 19:37

Jul 03, 2019, 20:02

Incorrect again. Andre has had numerous good tests for the Boks. The closest he had to a poor game was the Twickenham test. In fact, he graded as the RC's best 12. His tests against Los Pumas and Australia were particularly strong. His offloading - since his time in Japan, not the Sharks - is the most purposeful of any 12 I have seen for South Africa. That includes Frans. His pass off either hand, in close quarters or at length is exceptional. In fact, it's better than almost all of our halfbacks. I'd go so far as to say better than every one of our scrumhalves. He is a good decision maker and is calm under pressure. Not passive, calm. He is a very underrated player, which is par for the course for talent in South Africa. Something about mediocrity gets the plastics giddy. 

No need to post clips of Frans, I already know what he is capable of. I, however, cannot give a player I haven't watched since October a seal of approval for this season. If Frans can play like I last saw, I don't have a problem with him being in the squad, or starting ahead of Andre. I have said as much many times. To write off Andre altogether though is disgraceful. To say he hasn't had one good test, after I posted his entire 2018 test season is even worse. I've already covered several of his super rugby games this season. 

Jul 03, 2019, 20:43

Organhuffer says  he remembers this and he remembers that about Frans.

All it shows is ou Organhuffer has a long memory. Bwhahahaha.

Look it's okay to take a look to see how he is doing. But don't tell me his play for the Bok in recent years has been any good. 

Jul 03, 2019, 20:49


Remember AO was told De Allende played the fool with Steyn years ago when he was playing for the Sharks when he tried to tackle him and TWICE landed on his backside while De Allende made two clean breaks.   You should have seen what the idiot wrote when I pointed it out to him.      

Jul 03, 2019, 22:35

Damian made zero clean breaks. Neither one broke past the other in any attacking encounter. The one who fell on the ground was Damian when he attempted a lateral tackle on Frans out wide and spun around him all the way to the ground. 

"You should have seen what the idiot wrote when I pointed it out to him"

You pointed out nothing. You couldn't give me any times or specifics. In fact, I posted a video in February which exposed a couple of your lies. Nothing changes. 

Jul 03, 2019, 22:46

Funny  Peculiar - I gave you two instances in games - but fact is all four cases I did quote are true and your video did not show the mishaps of which there were too many.    Fransie is too vrot to play for SA,   And Esterhuizen is not ant better.

Jul 03, 2019, 22:51

"Funny  Peculiar"

Peculiar et funny English. :D

You made up two scenarios which were never verifiable at any point in time. This is where you are continually caught out, and why you have no credibility! It's easier to simply lie. As for Frans, show us where this the case. Or is it more hot air? I have debunked you left, right and centre regarding Andre. If you were as smart as you try to have us believe, you'd have had the good sense to abandon your vendetta against this quality player. 

Jul 04, 2019, 08:01

Andre has had more losing tests for the Springboks than winning tests.  This is where you are normally caught out.   I have no vendetta against any player - I leave that to you and Mozart.   I look objectively at players and their performances - both what they do themselves and what the consequences are of what they have done.   

Then I make a realistic assessment of what has been found and write objective assessments - not the repetitive cloud 9  junk you come up with,     

Jul 04, 2019, 08:39

I posted his entire test season, now show me where he was a liability! This is where YOU get caught out! :D

Yes, you tried to pin the blame on Andre for the Welsh loss, the 3rd England test, the 2nd Puma test, you even went so far as to accuse Andre of losing the game we won in Brisbane, South Africa! No vendetta indeed. :silly:

A little difficult to do this when the video is available to all. You rely on older games being unavailable. 

Jul 04, 2019, 13:30

I am not the fool you and Mozart are.  I do not blame Esterhuizen or any specific player for test losses - it is a team game.   I never blamed Esterhuizen for any losses.  I said he did NOT contribute to the games on the level expected from a test player and gave may reasons for my conclusions,  


Jul 04, 2019, 16:31

No. You said the Boks lost the Welsh test because of Andre's "stuff ups". You did likewise for the 3rd England test where you claimed he directly lost the game. Then you blamed Andre for the Aussie loss that was a win. Quite the contradiction, because you also blamed Thor for the 3rd England test. You have a habit of doing these things. 

Jul 04, 2019, 16:46

Listen dimness - I did not say what you said I did,  I am not ready for the loonie bin like you are.   I said Esterhuizen was ineffective and when he did make two  line break and gained meters  the Welsh made  turnovers and the territory gained was lost again.   Esterhuizen is a slow center and not an effective one.   His defense is effected by his pace deficiency.

One thing I noted in the last few matches relates to the Sharks lining up their defense.   At breakdowns the forwards line up against the opposing backs and the backs against the opposing forwards.   There is no co-ordination from a defense perspective  and the faster backs break through the forwards rather easily and score tries, while the backline is effectively catering for defense against forwards.  Messy and they leak tries like it is unbelievable.         

Jul 05, 2019, 02:09

So if we played another hooker rather than Marx, it makes no difference....we are no less likely to win. And if we play a competent tighthead rather than Coenie, we are no more likely to win.

Pure nonsense......individuals make a difference. And if a player has a losing record like Stephanie at flank......it's worth examining. The Boks have 5 wins and 9 losses with Stephanie at flank......even if you are naive enough to claim he has nothing to do with that record, he certainly isn't helping.

Jul 05, 2019, 02:30

Steph carries a significant amount of possession, and also engages in many defensive encounters. This makes him very involved with the Bok game. If we win, if we lose, he is one of the first places to look for answers. I did this against New Zealand in Wellington, and found scores of entry points through our defence. Against the NH sides, his carries were largely ineffective. In many respects, a loose forward equivalent of Damian, but with more heart and not quite as dumb. 

Jul 05, 2019, 03:12

Wynand Olivier is available.......

It's just a suggestion.

Jul 05, 2019, 04:26

Stephanie is a classic case.....he does a lot....but if he doesn't do those things better runners and tacklers would fulfill those functions...and his replacement would be better at ball hunting and quicker to the down ball and defence out wide would be better. Win, win, win, win and win.

It's not a coincidence that the Boks are 5 out of 14 with Stephanie starting at flank.

Jul 05, 2019, 08:38

Better runners and tacklers - who are you two talking about? 

Jul 05, 2019, 14:16

His tackling around the fringes is most alarming to me. I'd rather have Eben tackle around the fringes, and Steph around midfield. Then again, I'd rather start someone else altogether!

Jul 05, 2019, 16:03

Thank the Lord  - you are not a selector.

Jul 05, 2019, 16:16

If I was a selector, the Boks would most likely be entering this World Cup as reigning champions. 

Jul 05, 2019, 22:44

They would be out and not make the QF's,   Mozart supported all the duds in the Japan disaster in 2015  and they were forced afterwards to bring in players to take them through to the semi-finals of that competition despite having Meyer as coach,   You would obviously have chosen the Steyns as your key selections - so that says it all,   Unplayable players that would have lost against Scotland in that' series,

So that is what you are - a nonthinker about rugby like you can never be imaginable,     

Jul 05, 2019, 22:53

Funny to be insisting Frans is the deal when he has been way overweight and performing poorly when last seen for the  Boks. Why not wait and see how he performs?

Steph is world class at 7 and hopefully Rassie understands that. Just a bigger better version of Juan Smith. 

Jul 06, 2019, 02:34

Which of course is why the Boks are 5 out of 14 when Steph plays flank/left wing.

Jul 06, 2019, 03:43

Well Mikey-kun. Lets have a look at that World Cup. Players who contributed to the downfall of the Boks: 

  1. Lambie
  2. Kriel
  3. Damian
  4. Lood
  5. Steph
  6. Coenie
  7. Malherbe
  8. Le Roux
Boks who raised the standard of the team:
  1. JP
  2. Pollard
  3. Duane
  4. Victor
  5. Schalk
  6. Louw
  7. Du Preez
  8. Etzebeth
Bissie was inaccurate in the Japan loss, but was actually very effective as a carrier. Unusually so. He was much improved across the board thereafter.

When all is said and done, you backed the flubs. You always back the flubs...


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