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Our shocking URC sides.

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Jan 26, 2025, 06:54

Stormers - So much for its vaunted scrum. So much for Fousche. After yesterday I would simply pay Dweba out and sack him. My word, the amount of squandered opportunity because a pro hooker couldn't seem to carry out his main role. 

Leinster were there for the taking but the Stormers just can't seem to control the controllable. 

Then of course there is the irresponsible chucking away of the ball and the complete lack of territorial play.

 

Sharks - I only watched 10 minutes of the game, because it was a nothing match against a nothing team. The Sharks won comfortably...and I suppose all is right in the world now. This despite the Sharks playing like complete fools against Toulouse two weeks back and then last weekend appearing absolutely incapable of protecting the ball.

 

Lions - They're a team of try-hard but appear to have zero gameplan. Nobody holds out any hope for them and they rely very heavily on a couple of players for everything they do. They're in a the habit of losing and it doesn't look like they want to turn over a new leaf.

 

Bulls - Probably our best team. They do appear to achieve the basics and there is some semblance of structure in their play. But at the same time, they are nowhere near Leinster or Glasgow. They probably have the most experienced team and it's perhaps only experience that is still keeping them afloat. 

But we comfort ourselves by talking about how many Boks are injured or plying abroad. Reality check boys...those guys are all on the verge of retirement over the next 2 years.

Last year, I was very confident about the emerging talent and the much vaunted conveyer belt of SA rugby. 

But time, ever the merchant of truth, has revealed that the conveyer belt is busted. 

There are some colors amongst the gravel, Hannekom and a few others, but they are few and far between. None of the front rowers in Dave list of 9 million are putting in dominant performances. Please, don't call out scrumming Zebres or Cardiff dominant.

It's simple. If you believe that you could create a dominant front row from any of the guys on display this weekend, and that they would dominate...then you are straight-up delusional.

It feels like the WC win made us all believe how great we are. That feeling is bolstered by the amount of Boks we have playing abroad and the fact that we get hyped wins against crap teams like Cardiff.

But the reality is that 90% of the people of Dave's list are not good enough. Our coaching at franchise level is abysmal and our sides look more like headless chickens every week. 

We are in kak, boys.

 

Dobson needs to go, and so does Plumtree. Akkerman needs to take over ASAP at the Stormers and the Sharks need to get a guy like Meyer who can force them into a game plan where they are expansive only when they have earned it.

 

Big changes are required and SA needs to return to being a nation of forward dominated rugby. 

 

Jan 26, 2025, 08:39

" It's simple. If you believe that you could create a dominant front row from any of the guys on display this weekend, and that they would dominate...then you are straight-up delusional"

  1. Gerhard Steenekamp/ Jan Hendrik Wessels
  2. Johan Grobbelaar/AH Venter 
  3. Wilco Louw/ Carlu Sadie
  4. Reinhardt Ludwig 
  5. Ruben V Heerden/ JF V Heerden 
  6. Roos
  7. Ruan Venter
  8. Cameron Hanekom 

Jan 26, 2025, 10:35

The SA sides are definitely sub par.

In my opinion injuries and guys paying overseas definitely matter. 

Stormers missing Kitshoff and Malherbe has made a big difference to our front row.

The absence of Sascha and Willemse mage a big difference to the backline.

Another problem for the Stir ets is that we lose players to other franchises time and again. Usually to Bulls and Sharks.eg Bongi, Eben, Kolisi, PSTD, Kolisi, Cobus Wiese.

Our Viking playing for Leinster perfectly illustrates the effect of our players playing overseas. A few class players can change a teams fortunes. 

Our franchise coaches are sub par. Our players so often lack the smarts. Plums criticism are spot on. 

I think there are still enough good players here on South Africa and playing abroad to put in a very good Bok squad  coached by a brilliant coach. 

 

 

Jan 26, 2025, 11:10

M...I'm talking about front rows.

 

As far as loosies go we have more than enough.

 

Locks, we have less abundance than the loosie department, but are okay for the time being.

 

But front rows...that's where the problem is. 

Jan 26, 2025, 11:30

I just gave you a formidable front row?? What the EOYT showed is how strong Wilco and Gerhard really is.

Also show me a Side in the URC or Champions cup that could dominate that Bulls frontrow?

They Dominated scrum time and were active defenders.

Vs a Ireland pack, AB and the French, there true test will come.

But I am more than optimistic that they will do very well there to.

Take a guy like Carlu Sadie that plays for Bordeaux Begles. The guy is scrumming strongly and doing well.

Do not forget Thomas Du Toit that is a above average prop.

Although I agree that we are not playing our top form, and our Local coaches must do much better, for me I feel that it’s going a bit far saying we are totally in the Kak.

Jan 26, 2025, 11:34

Sharks - I only watched 10 minutes of the game, because it was a nothing match against a nothing team.

A nothing match?, I hope South African teams don't have that mindset. It was 4th vs 5th place in the log. Cardiff were 4 point ahead of Sharks going into that match 4 points ahead while Sharks had a game in hand. 4th place gets you a home quarters.

How are points one and lost in that game any less important than in any other round? If you Sharks make the top 4 or top 2 by 5 points or less, why would the 5 points here by less valuable than 5 in another game.

Bulls - Probably our best team. They do appear to achieve the basics and there is some semblance of structure in their play. But at the same time, they are nowhere near Leinster or Glasgow. 

Emm...the Bulls are 3 points behind Glasgow with a game in hand. 

Leinster are freaks few teams are anywhere near them.

Question why are South African rugby fans such whiny bitches. You turn on your teams at the drop of a hat.

Fact of the matter are the Bulls and Sharks do have good teams when they can get all their frontline players can be competitive with anyone. Are they the absolute best teams competing in the Champions Cup, no they are not, but they are close enough that if they put in an exceptional performance or if their opponents have a slightly off day or a small bit of luck they can beat anyone. 

The problem with South African teams is pretty much well known and acknowledged by now. They lack depth compared to wealthier North Hemisphere teams. They just don't have the resources to compete on a two front war that is the URC and Champions Cup. 

Once your shareholders in both competitions, the SA franchises should receive a significant boost to finances and that should help with the depth issue over time, but its not going be instantaneous either. I already see that from next season on the Sharks, Lions and Stormers will all be flying business class to the matches up north as opposed to economy class thanks to the extra money that comes with being shareholders.

Of course SA franchises are not going be able to compete with the money in France, which neither the UK or Ireland can either but you don't need to be the richest to be competitive. You just need to close enough that other incentives such as playing for the Springboks, better player welfare and players being able to live at home close to family and friends offset the better pay cheque of going up north.

 

Jan 26, 2025, 14:36

Cardiff have played the very crap Welsh sides and won...oh and the mighty Zebre.

Their best win has been Ulster(if memory serves).

Their current position on the log only "looks" good.

As far as I'm concerned they're a nothing team and there isn't a great deal be learned from playing them.

For me, like many other Saffas...a rock solid scrum and ball protection are the keys to everything. If we lose while doing those well then it's nowhere near as bitter as losing when we aren't.

On those fronts, ALL of our sides have been shocking this season. 

My complaint isn't so much about our performance in the URC either. It's more about the fact we don't seem to finding the two front rows we need for the Boks.


Were I able to identify our certain next front row from these URC performances, even if the side they play in wasn't doing to well, I'd not be too concerned. But I can't see it. There are flashes, brief ones, like the Stormers winning a good attacking scrum last night...but all too soon those flashes are followed up with the next set back peddling.

Our involvement in the URC is a blessing as far as I'm concerned. 

BUT we are a scrumming nation. We're not the skillful ABs or the well organised Irish. We rely on blunt force. And I don't see that blunt force anywhere, at the level it should be, from our URC sides.

 

So, Star...I don't expect us to win everything all the time or to consistently compete with France at franchise level. I can see the path that SA rugby is on and I'm happy with it. But I'd be far happier if I could identify our next Kitshoff already.

Jan 26, 2025, 14:46

Glad to hear there will be more money. Help us keep our players at home and stop other parasitic SA provinces looting the playing resources of the Stormers. 

Thank you very much. 

Jan 27, 2025, 02:21

Spot on Mpower there is zero wrong with our frontrow looking forward 

3. Wilco 2. Marx 1. Ox

3. Thomas 2. AH Venter 1. Steenkamp

3. Sadie 2. Grobelaar 1. Wessels 

3. Hanro Jacobs 2. Dweba 1. Mchunu 

No side in world rugby has that kind of depth in the frontrow 

Jan 27, 2025, 06:43

Ox and Marx, great.

Point me to a dominant match against a top club that any of the others have had this season...

As usual, all I want is evidence.

 

 

Jan 27, 2025, 07:40

Wilco has dominated virtually every loosehead he has come across. He is even more dominant than Malherbe has ever been. 

Steenkamp is part of the same Bulls frontrow that has obliterated opposition scrums. Coming on as part of the Bomb squad he has done the same

Thomas has been huge for Bath at 3 and I pointed out on here the failings of  ESPN stats that failed to pick up a Thomas scrum penalty in one of the tests he played in recently 

Wessels is making his way in senior rugby and looks a great prospect as do young tightheads Hanro Jacobs and Francois Klopper 

Sadie has been tearing it up at scrum time for his French club hence Jake signing him for the Bulls - he is on his way home

Plum you have it completely wrong - SA rugby has not suddenly stopped producing props 

Jan 27, 2025, 09:17

That is great news about Sadie:) The guy is another Wilco….

Plum have you not watched any of the Bulls games and see how Wilco and co dominated??

Wilco even put Ox under pressure when the bulls played the Sharks….Did you not see that?

Did you see what he did to Genge vs the Pom props at the EOYT??

I really don’t understand how anyone cannot see that  our props is doing well.

Frans is not having a swell time at the moment but he will get back to his old self.

The evidence is there plum no need to worry:)

Jan 27, 2025, 09:36

How about Rabah Slimani the French prop that play for Leinster and demolished  Ali Vermaak of the Stormers this Weekend.

Now this guy also sometimes plays LH prop and has come up against Wilco already and he got the upperhand over Slimani.

I will try to find the footage, it was last year some where…

Did you see what Wilco and Gerhard did to the lions pack?

Even a Asenathi Ntlabakanye that weighs 153 kg could do nothing vs Gerhard Steenekamp.

Ag no man plum trying to upset a person early Monday morning:)

 

 
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