Planet Rugby Lions test team....not that formidable:

Forum » Rugby » Planet Rugby Lions test team....not that formidable:

Mar 24, 2021, 16:42

This is the team:


Our Lions team: 15 Stuart Hogg, 14 Liam Williams, 13 Jonathan Davies, 12 Robbie Henshaw, 11 Louis Rees-Zammit, 10 Jonathan Sexton, 9 Conor Murray, 8 Taulupe Faletau, 7 Justin Tipuric, 6 Tadhg Beirne, 5 Alun Wyn Jones (c), 4 Maro Itoje, 3 Tadhg Furlong, 2 Ken Owens, 1 Rory Sutherland
Replacements: 16 Jamie George, 17 Joe Marler, 18 Kyle Sinckler, 19 James Ryan, 20 Josh Navidi, 21 Gareth Davies, 22 Dan Biggar, 23 Henry Slade


That backline looks formidable, with lots of pace and the settled Irish half backs. But the forwards, not so much. We should be much stronger in the tight five and at least on par with the loosies. 


The question is what Springbok team will emerge after the chicken run.

Mar 24, 2021, 18:38

I’d go with the following Lions side:

15. Hogg 14. Watson 13. North 12. Henshaw 11. vd Merwe 10. Russell 9. Murray 1. Wyn Jones 2. Owens 3. Furlong 4. Henderson 5. Ryan 6. Itoje 7. Curry 8. Faletau

16. Cowan Dickie 17. Sutherland 18. Sinckler 19. AW Jones 20.CJ Stander 21. Youngs 22. Sexton 23. Huw Jones

Mar 24, 2021, 19:31

"The question is what Springbok team will emerge after the chicken run."

Unnecessarily nasty... are you attempting a move to the Rooi-hole side of bitterbalness...almost as if you are willing the Boks to lose to prove a point...I know it's not that, but your resistance to Rassie gives that impression...we won the bloody world cup for Pete's sake!

Mar 24, 2021, 19:40

No I always support the Boks but we should have played last year....like every other rugby country in the world. So necessarily nasty. Somebody  has to tell the truth when the media is spoon feeding the fans nonsense.

Mar 24, 2021, 20:25

Nope we should not have played last year as we were not even close to being prepared to play test rugby against sides that were well prepared

SA rugby got it right, vindicated by Jake’s support of the call

Mar 24, 2021, 20:50

This is the Bok side that should take on the Lions:

15. Willie 14. Nkosi 13. Am 12. de Allende 11. Kolbe 10. Pollard 9. Faf 1. Kitshoff 2. Marx 3. Malherbe 4. Etzebeth 5. RG Snyman 6. Kolisi 7. PSDT 8. Vermeulen

16. Mbonambi 17. Thomas 18. Nyakane 19. Lood 20. Dan or JL du Preez 21. Jantjies 22. Willemse 23. Jessie Kriel

Mar 24, 2021, 21:40

Showpony Willie ahead of Aphelele Fassi?


Mar 24, 2021, 22:39

Love Fassi but Willie is crucial to the Boks

Mar 24, 2021, 23:26

Fassi hasn't had much game time and still hasn't played test rugby. So I would back Willie, Fassi time will come. 

We also have Gelant that was playing really well. Not sure if he is still out. 

But the Lions players at present doesn't really impress me that much. 

Zammit and May could be one of the most quickest wings in Lions history. That kid has some serious pace. 

But, there are still enough quality throughout, but none of the English players haver really  put up  their hands this season. 

Mar 25, 2021, 00:29

We have good options at fullback in Willie, Fassi, Gelant, Willemse, Swanepoel and David Kriel

Mar 25, 2021, 12:25

I do not think that Willie will be in the team again.   He was solid under high balls - bit his ball handling in the 2019WC  was substandard, 

Mar 25, 2021, 13:12

Mike we can take comfort in the fact that your rugby ignorance will have no part in the selection of the Bok side thankfully

Willie will definitely be in the side for he is that crucial to the side and Rassie knows that

Your rugby ignorance is evidenced by your inability to see the value in Willie. A stat released after the WC showed that Willie was involved in almost every try the Boks scored in the WC. He either had a hand in it or set them up. He was brilliant in the final.

His ability to sum situations up and create opportunities is second to none. He is our visionary in the side. But your limited insight into rugby has you seeing all the balls he fumbled etc, concentrating on the few negatives and not appreciating his value as to be perfectly honest you don’t understand the finer details and arts of the game.

I mean this sincerely you are rugby ignorant. You understand the basics but not the detail

Mar 25, 2021, 13:20

Mike, have not  watch  any of his tries in the  Top League. He still  has a  lot to  offer, so I won't write  him off. Probably  won't hang onto him until  the next world cup, but  for a lions series I would definitely keep him in the  team.

Just looking at some of our players and i think we have a lot of depth 

Here is my bok squad for the lions series

15 - Le Roux, Gelant, Fassi, Steyn

11/14 - Nkosi, Mpimpi, Kolbe

13 - Am, Kriel, Serfontein

12 - De Allende, Esterhuizen, Steyn

10 - Pollard, Jantjies, Steyn

09 - De Klerk, Reinach, Jantjies (Lost form) 

08 - Vermeulen, Coetzee, Du Preez

07 - PSDT, Du Preez

06 - Kolisi, Marco Van Staden

05 - Lood  Lomp, RG Sneyman

04 - Etzabeth, Kirsten

03 -  Malherbe, Koch, Nyakane

02 - Marx, Bongi, Akker Van der Merwe

01 - Kitshoff, Ggobe, Ox

I'll keep Frans Steyn, he has lions  experience and still performing really well. 

I left out a couple of players as just haven't seen enough of them

Kriel is a prospect but too soon  to put him in a lions series



Mar 25, 2021, 15:54

Serfontein is definitely not a 13 and we need to move on from old men like Frans Steyn

Here is what we have:

15. Willie / Fassi / Gelant / Willemse / Swanepoel/ Kriel

14/11. Mapimpi/ Nkosi / Kolbe / Ismiel/ Skosan / Tambwe / Pienaar / Senatla / Petersen / Green / Zas / Davids / Maxwane / Combrink / Lleyds / Penxe

13/12. Am / Jessie Kriel / Janse v Rensburg/ Esterhuizen / Kobus v Wyk / Similane / Gans / de Allende/ Serfontein/ Vorster / Odendaal/ Marius Louw/ du Plessis/ Mollentze/ Rickus Pretorious / EW Viljoen / Frans Venter

10. Pollard / Jantjies / Bosch / Goosen / du Preez / Stander / Libbok

9. Faf / Reinach / Jantjies / Nohamba / v Zyl / Papier / v d Bergh / Izak Burger / Schreuder / Hendrikse / Hall

1/3. Kitshoff/ Thomas du Toit / Ox Nche / Nqoboka/ Boan Venter / Gerhard Steenkamp/ Pierre Schoeman/ JJ Wessels/ Smith / Malherbe/ Wilco Louw/ Nyakane/ Marcel vd Merwe / Koch / Coenie / Jonker / Frans v Wyk / Sadie / Sithole

2. Marx / Mbonambi / Aker / Dweba / v Vuuren / Grobelaar/ Mbatha / Venter / Erasmus / Jooste / Scara

4/5. Etzebeth / Jenkins / Moerat / Ruben Schoeman/ Steenkamp/ Roets / Koeklenbrrg / vd Mecht /Lood/ Ruan Botha / RG Snyman/ Schickerling/ Ruben v Heerden/ Herbst / Erasmus / Lewies / Ribbans / Eli Snyman

6/7/8. Vermeulen/ Dan du Preez/ JL du Preez/ Jaco Coetzee/ Marcel Coetzee/ Augustus/ Notshe / Tshituka / Jaques du Plessis/ Ackerman/ Mostert / PSDT / Wiese / Liebenberg/ v Rhyn / Kirsten / Paul / Brink / Oupa / Elstadt / Kolisi / Carr / Jaco Kriel/ James Venter/ v Staaden / Kwagga/ Richardson/ Elrigh Louw / Buthelezi / Arno Botha/ Smit / Dayamani

Mar 25, 2021, 16:09

Goosen.........waaaaahahaha.....Thursday funny!

Mar 25, 2021, 17:06

Great player

Mar 25, 2021, 17:34

Where’s Mchunu in your squad Dave.....cutting edge thinkers have this lad in their squads. Are you slipping in your old age?

Mar 25, 2021, 17:39

I’d have him in if I had seen him play

I’m not in the habit of passing judgment on a player I have never seen play

Unlike you Moz - we’ve had countless takes on player’s performances in games you have not even watched

Somehow in your world ESPN stats define performances despite how inaccurate those stats are

Mar 25, 2021, 20:03

I have never opined on player performances in games I haven’t seen.....I have quoted stats from those games which is perfectly legitimate. In many cases the stats are definitive.

Mar 25, 2021, 20:32

Hey Dave, you pretty much selected all of our professional players. 

If you had to pick 35 players, who would they be?

Mar 25, 2021, 21:01

"Hey Dave, you pretty much selected all of our professional players. "

Maak die Bulle almal Bokke!:D...Dave, forever the optimist...:angel:

Dave illustrating that South Africa has rugby talent to burn...;)

Mar 25, 2021, 22:19

Nonsense Moz there have been many games you have not seen where you have commented on a player’s performance - the most recent being de Allende’s 20 min off the bench for Munster

Accurate stats might provide some perspective on performance but only a small fraction at best 20%

However ESPN have proved themselves to be inaccurate evidenced by Mostert’s zero missed tackles in the WC final

Mar 25, 2021, 22:33

King here goes 38 I’d go with:

15. Willie / Fassi / Willemse

14/11. Nkosi / Kolbe / Mapimpi / Gelant

13/12. Jessie Kriel/ Am / de Allende/ Serfontein / Janse v Rensburg

10. Pollard / Jantjies

9. Faf / Jantjies / Nohamba

1. Kitshoff/ Thomas du Toit / Ox Nche

2. Marx / Mbonambi / Dweba

3. Malherbe/ Nyakane / Wilco Louw

4/5. Etzebeth/ Jenkins / RG Snyman/ Lood/ Ruben v Heerden

6/7/8. Kolisi / Dylan Richardson / PSDT / JL du Preez/ Dan du Preez/ Marcel Coetzee / Vermeulen

Mar 25, 2021, 23:41

I would pick Reinach over Nohamba. Looks Noche hasn't made the list. But he had a few good months for the sharks but haven't stepped up.

Nice to see van Rensburg, completely forgot about him.

Never heard of Dylan Richardson 

Mar 25, 2021, 23:41

I would pick Reinach over Nohamba. Looks Noche hasn't made the list. But he had a few good months for the sharks but haven't stepped up.

Nice to see van Rensburg, completely forgot about him.

Never heard of Dylan Richardson 

Mar 26, 2021, 02:09

Nope Nohamba is pure class and young.

Reinach is good but 30 now so I’m going with the youngster

Big fan of Notshe but Vermeulen has the Lions to take on them he needs to hung up the boots

You have not seen Dylan Richardson? Fuck me where have you been

Brilliant openside and doubles up as a hooker. Class act for the Sharks but so is James Venter of the Sharks. I went with Richardson ahead of Venter as Venter has been out of action for a season

Janse v Rensburg is a must as is Serfontein and I’d like Esterhuizen in there as well

Mar 26, 2021, 02:56

Dave the stats are way more accurate than your take on games. One could build a statistical model that predicted player success based on current statistical form that would handily beat opinion based projections.

Given how much data is being collected. And the scant financial rewards for doing so, the stats are amazingly good. The proof is that teams rely on these stats despite the views of amateurs.

Mar 26, 2021, 11:03

Stats provide zero context and if they were accurate then they would provide a very secondary account of how a player performed

Sure they have their uses, without doubt but one certainty is that teams will not be using ESPN stats as a reference

Stats give you about 20% of the picture

As for stats being way more accurate than my take on games - that rings very true with you as well

Mar 26, 2021, 13:57

Agree with Dave on the stats. If you can  create scenarios of what impact a player had would be far  more valuable then just tackles etc. 

I'm still not sure we should pick Rookies for the Lions tour. Let them play in SA A team. 

Nohambe is really good, but super tiny. 

I've spotted Richardson a few times for the sharks but didn't know who he was. Only been catching up on highlights, haven't watched any full games for a while. 

Mar 26, 2021, 17:27

Trouble is Corn, people bang on about the context for stats....the mistakes of stats. Fair enough. But what about the context for fan opinion, what about the mistakes they make....vastly greater. Hell on this site we have players having terrible games when they are not even on the field.


Stats are many times more reliable than opinion....if you use them correctly. Bad tackling stats in one game could be an aberration. Bad tackling stats over a series of games is a strong warning signal. Yes you need to add to that by looking at the quality of the tackles....but the dominant tackles stat will give you that insight.

And there  are more advanced stats sites that compile positive interventions.....that give you the impact on matches.

Try this test. Watch a game and then review the  match stats and the player stats and ask yourself whether you never learned a few things you didn’t pick up in the game. I always do and I watch matches analytically often rerunning footage.

Mar 26, 2021, 18:52

Stats definitely have their place especially the ones used by teams that are far more definitive and accurate that ESPN.

They provide a useful addition to ones visual interpretation of a players and team’s performance, but certainly not a definitive account of a players performance.

Mar 26, 2021, 19:13

King in a squad of 38 a player like Nohamba would not start or be on the bench

It’s almost certain that Faf with start with Jantjies on the bench

Mar 26, 2021, 19:34

Watch Gary Gold on stats: https://www.statsperform.com/team-performance/rugby/



Mar 26, 2021, 19:36

Time to lose the buggy whip and enter the modern era.

Mar 26, 2021, 20:18

Gary Gold is useless but he has a point about accurate stats and video analysis. Stats provide complementary information about player performance whereas video analysis provides definitive information

 
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