World Rugby Men’s 15s Breakthrough Player of the Year

Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu (RSA) Immanuel Feyi-Waboso (ENG) Jamie Osborne (IRE) Wallace Sititi (NZL)

World Rugby Men’s 15s Player of the Year

Caelan Doris (IRE) Eben Etzebeth (RSA) Pieter-Steph du Toit (RSA) Cheslin Kolbe (RSA)

Ox Nche should be counted unlucky not to be there. And I think SFM wouldn’t have taken the award if he played EOYT…

But Wallace Sititi also deserves it. He has been phenomenal for the AB

I think Eben has been better than Pieter and Cheslin….Caelan Doris is right up there. Individual Greatness that cannot be coached!

Cheslin for me.

The  fact is teh playes are selected by a pael of 8 international players - from diferent countries and hey ahve access to the special player peformance program that follows the match performces of players in each match hy play in for the full time they play in each match.    I si a hard est for eery player and last year the Player of the year was  Ardie Savea .   In 2022 i was Dupont.   

Last year  it was not a particularly difficult choice - but Etzebeth was on o he nminees ad did not get the award,   

The fact is that it is not an award baed on choise by the public and is based on prfessional ability proven in tes matches,    

Based on he way the panel goes about the issue it is not easy to deermine the winner by the public and I think that Etzebeth may miss he ship again.   He is a player with top class tigh 5 ability - but my ssuspision is that the choice his year would be beween Kolbe and Du Toit,,  With the latter being the likely winner.

As to the breakhough new player of the Year the fact is hat the choice will be Sacha  Feinberg Mngomezulu, 

That is my opinion - but I may be wrong - but the panel will decide and  WR will make the announcement ..               

.      .    

Carter won this award 3 times, McCaw 3 times, Barrett twice….adding up to 10 NZ wins and 3 Bok wins, Habana, Schalk and Steph. 

In the period since 2001 when the award started the Boks have won 3 WCs to NZ’s 2.  Which to me says there is a bias against Springbok players.

Both Eben and Cheslin deserve to win this award. I would be happy with either one. They have been the best in their positions for over 5 years and attested to that with fabulous performances in the WC.

I think Eben’s ‘tough guy’ image counts against him, but his athleticism is what should get rewarded.

Excellent post and points Moz, I couldn't agree more

Eben for me, but Cheslin is right there....

It is a close call between Cheslin and Eben, Cheslin though is the complete rugby player gifted with speed and the ability to think on his feet as well as to create match winning tries from nothing.

PSDT is right up there with Eben and Cheslin...and as much as I like Eben, I think Pieter deserves it more...for me it's Pieter, Cheslin and then Eben...eben got robbed a few years ago, but this year PSDT was absolutely phenomenal...the heart of the team.

Actually I think dud Toit had his best year. He eased up on the process tackling and did some good work at the breakdown, becoming a more balanced player. His running in traffic is still ordinary and he hasn’t learned to offload ….90% of his game is played when the opposition has the ball, but as with so many players he is peaking in his early thirties.

Clearly he is also playing more of a leadership role in the team…a quiet bloke who is finding he is respected by his mates.

Kolbe was al so brilliant throughout. But if it’s close the nod should go to Eben, who was a finalist last year. 

h ttps://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/nov/16/eben-etzebeth-shows-why-he-is-the-heart-and-soul-of-south-africa

Good read, thanks B.

Blob that’s the best read on the Boks  by an obviously intelligent man….you should post it as a new string, we all tend to ignore stuff that we have to open. And this is essential reading.

Eben has internalised That darker aggression of himself and uses it to his own advantage…

In the past he lived it outwards and that drained his energy. Not anymore and that actually makes him more scary now..

Visualise and Attack at the right moment….I hope he gets the award.

We already knew he is the best Rugby player in the world…But this article, enforces that fact.

Good article Blob…Well spotted :)

Nice post M!

Eben wouldn't be a bad pick but I suspect it would be a sympathy pick for his snub last year . . . given that PSdT has outplayed him and had more impact in every test match this calendar year.

Cheslin is still my choice. Pure magic every time he's on the ball.

" given that PSdT has outplayed him and had more impact in every test match this calendar year." - Bold statement and not even close to being true…

For sure Pieter has been good, but similar to Eben not better… my opinion.

Mpower who were the much better onnce and why ?

Go on then . . . which is the test match in this calendar year where Eben and PSdT both started where Eben ouplayed PSdT or had more influence on the outcome?

You called it a bo ld statement. Come on then and back that up. Name the test match in this calendar year.

Are you offline or are you just chicken?

This past WEEKEND for example the England game…if it wasn’t for Eben Pieter would have never had the chance to score.

The pressure on Poorvliet and subsequent pressure on smith, is the only reason smith rushed his kick, which gave the opportunity to stef for his charge down.

Eben, s pressure in general play and linout balls, laid the foundation for win in the first Irish Test.

Even in the Scotties test Pieter could not even match eben, s general play or driving with the ball.

Pieter,s lack of commitment in second Irish test was evident in him not even trying to block winning drop goal….

In the two AB test Pieter was only a shadow of the man that tackled his heart out in WC Final 23.

It was the steadfast continuity of Eben that brought us the win in both test…..Fact.

So now it’s your turn give us proof and READ my post again, I said similar not better!!

I dont see them awarding both the new player and the best player award to one country- but maybe.
If so, I think Kolbe gets the player of the season and Sasha the best new player. 
Eztebeth is good as usual, but I think his best year was last year or/and the year before. 

If Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu had not been injured and played well on the EOYT, he would have probably been a shoo-in for the best new player. He still has a good chance of winning, though.

If so, then maybe Dorris gets the Player of the Season

"7 Pieter-Steph du Toit: Put the pressure on Marcus Smith to score a deserved try and went on to have another stormer as he got stuck into everything during his time on the pitch. He slotted into the second rower again after returning from getting stitched up. He is having some year in Green and Gold. 8"

"4 Eben Etzebeth: Made life incredibly difficult for Jack van Poortvliet as he hassled and harried the halfback with his cross kick and that led to Du Toit’s try, this after Smith exploited his charge out of the line to set up a score for Ollie Sleightholme. A few uncharacteristic penalties go against him but that was a theme of the team and not him alone. 7"

Want to try again?

From SARugbymag:

Hello?

Ag pls man that’s your only evidence, what I have provided for you?? There is no evidence that puts pieter above Eben ever!!

These player ratings is Only numbers and does not prove beyond a doubt that Pieter is better than eben.

Heart and soul of Bok Rugby! You the one that made the statement that Pieter was better in all the games he played this year…..hard evidence will back that claim stats etc….??

Just name the test match, chump . So far you've made your name mud.

Yet again what puffed media is puking our way is your evidence….honestly Rooinek where is the stats backing your claim that pieter outplayed Eben in every game ?!

Just name the test match, Emp. So far you're 0/1.

Here's another website supporting my view:

SPRINGBOK PLAYER RATINGS

All scores out of 10

15. Aphelele Fassi – 7
14. Cheslin Kolbe – 9
13. Jesse Kriel – 7.5
12. Damian de Allende – 7.5
11. Kurt-Lee Arendse – 7.5
10. Manie Libbok – 6
9. Grant Williams – 8.5
8. Jasper Wiese – 8
7. Pieter-Steph du Toit – 9
6. Siya Kolisi – 6.5
5. RG Snyman – 8
4. Eben Etzebeth – 8
3. Wilco Louw – 8
2. Bongi Mbonambi – 7.5
1. Ox Nche – 8

Replacements:

16. Malcolm Marx – 7.5
17. Gerhard Steenekamp – 7.5
18. Vincent Koch – 7.5
19. Elrigh Louw – 7
20. Kwagga Smith – 6.5
21 . Cobus Reinach – 6
22. Handre Pollard – 7.5
23. Lukhanyo Am – 6

I give a fuck if you claim my name is mud….because you cannot provide hard core game stats that prove Pieter, s dominance….???

Is that your only claim . . . the last test . . . where every rugby website diagrees with you?

As for the Scotland game you're blathering on about, did you read the bit where I said games where both players started?

Did you understand what I said? Do you know PSdT didn' t start that game?

M, not siding with Rooi here, and I am a huge Eben fan, but IMO Pieter was the better player this year...probably played more minutes than Eben, was MOM more...etc...Eben came close the year Ardi took it...Cheslin was close a season or what ago...and he might be the only one standing in Pieter's way this year...but it's close...even Moz's is revising his stance on this phenomenal player...Eben is a legend,  but so is Steph...and the stats shows it...especially in the big matches...

". . . because you cannot provide hard core game stats"

Well you can't put up anything at all . . . at least I've provided something other than my own opinion.

Put up an unbiased and objective third party view rather than your own biased opinion or else keep your stupid trap shut.

Have you run away, grootbek?

 Chat GPT ...lol:

"As of November 2024, Pieter-Steph Du Toit has been named Man of the Match twice in 2024. His most notable performance was during the 2024 Rugby Championship, where he was awarded the accolade after a standout performance against Australia. The second award came during the 2024 Rugby World Cup, where Du Toit’s efforts helped South Africa win their fourth title."

So much for Chat...

...Cheslin is a game changer...as is Steph...and Eben...and Ox...and a few others...and they're all playing at the same time!!!!

Jesus Rooinek, did you forget to take your pills? The guy is giving an opinion on a rugby player, he's not claiming your wife is sleeping around.

Actually no, he's disputing the statement I made that PSdT has outperformed Eben in every test match they've both started this year . . . without putting up a shr ed of evidence than his own biased opinion.

Do you want to help him out?

Except of course there was one player who could have saved the Irish test. In the second last phase before the drop the Irish runner falls literally at Dud Toit’s feet with one Irishman protecting. All he had to do was drive one player off the ball or even slow it down and the Boks win the match. Instead he dances back giving Ireland quick ball to set up the drop.

Most consequential mistake of the season.

"Pieter,s lack of commitment in second Irish test was evident in him not even trying to block winning drop goal…."

Lack of commitment, what nonsense?

All three players mentioned by DbD have had a great season but the five pointers and plays that Cheslin has made make him standout as exceptional.

Respect all the players mentioned but Cheslin has made some unbelievable catches and five pointers.

Not sure if the Boks will ever be able to find a replacement for him once he calls it a day.

OUTSTANDING Springbok.

The anti PSDT sentiment on this site is absolutely ridiculous and totally detached from the rugby reality of most fans of the game...un fuckin believable.

Well if you read my post I said Pieter is similar to Eben not better and I stand by that !!

Both you and Draad cannot provide game stats that prove that Pieter made more tackles , clean outs, turnover etc…

Rooinek wants to prove his point thru player ratings of Rugby sites that is media people and not professionals….

those ratings means jack shit in the end of the day!!

And yet again Draad you opportunistic use your chance to side with people to get at certain people, like me….

Rather tell me directly that I am a fuck up or you don’t like me or a doos , I can appreciate that more because it’s genuine and not agter af !!

Than siding with this Narcissistic prick that is Rooinek, that thinks the sun shines out of his ass…

Bye the way Moz said that Pieter played better this year, but he did not say he is better than Eben… I agree with that..

And Rooinek fuck off!!

SA vs Ireland 2nd test players ratings:

4. Eben Etzebeth – 6

Living life on the edge and perhaps past it, Etzebeth led the Bok defensive line and was pinged for being offside a few times. Ultimately, he got more right than wrong but lacked that trademark ‘big play moment’ that has been the backbone of his game throughout his career as he carried seven times for four meters.

7. Pieter-Steph du Toit – 6.5
South African Rugby’s totemic figure had an unusually nondescript first half but grew into the contest throughout the second half. Smashing into breakdowns, Du Toit wrestled back control and stifled the Irish lightning-quick ball but, like his compatriots, struggled to get over the gainline at any point. Defensively he displayed his customary work rate with seventeen tackles to top that department for the Boks.

Draad stop the hysterics. Look at the second Irish drop and the two phases before that. Watch Dud Toit dance back from a ball at his feet…and deal with the facts 

AJ, yes...Cheslin is something special...I think he might have edged the other 2...but it's damn close.

Listen, chump, instead of showing your poor upbringing with your language, why don' t you at least attempt to back up your big talk.

I might be providing player ratings (by independent sources) but it's still a lot more than what you're putting up.

I repeat, If Eben is named Player of the Year it's not a bad choice, because he may well have deserved it last year but it's a bit of a joke this year when PSdT has outplayed him in every test match they've both started together in 2024.

You may not like that but at least have the courage to put up some views that contradict my claim instead of just spouting your own rugby noob opinions.

Personally I think they both had great seasons, as did Kolbe. But Eben is in my view the one player who could turn any of the 5 leading countries into the best team in the world. He should have got it last year….and it would be a travesty if the best lock of all time never wins it.

Do you want to help him out?

Well I'd have to rewatch every game for a real opinion, but if you want to rely on journalist ratings, Rugbypass scores Eben 8 to 7 Steph for England, Citizen the same, 365 both 7, MSN Eben 7 to 6 Steph, Ruck has it as close as 8 to 8.5 for Steph. So hardly unanimous or significant.

Moffie is known for having an obsessive hatred for PSdT and his whiny contribution to this debate has already been annihilated.

If Moffie wants to help Emp in finding a 2024 test match where both players started and PSdT didn;t outplay him then he's welcome but his own jaundiced and biased opinion doesn;t count for anything.

By the way I'm still saying Cheslin (a player Moffie was cathing of for many years) should be player of the year but I'm also arguing that PSdT is ahead of Eben for 2nd or 3rd place.

Listen here you fuck face up till now you haven’t proved anything other than media sites and there biased player ratings?!

And my language suits your disgusting need to always humiliate people…. I was discussing my point of view until you had to go make it personal!!

So if you can’t handle the heat get the fuck out of the Kitchen …fuck off!!

And there your go your own Player ratings is playing against you ha ha ha what a knob you are….fuck you !!

"Draad stop the hysterics. Look at the second Irish drop and the two phases before that. Watch Dud Toit dance back from a ball at his feet…and deal with the fact."

Did you see a "lack of commitment" there? Hysterics my big fat arse...stop deriding an all time Bok great...an error here or there does not equate to a great player suddenly becoming ordinary...this is probably the greatest Bok team ever and a few on here are constantly looking for some horse shyte reasons why they aren't...with you in particular leading the charge...it's beyond positive critique...it's actually disgustingly un patriotic...ya ya, I know...spare your breath, I know.

Second All Black Test, I was just waiting for you to ask me (sic)

4. Eben Etzebeth – 8
Immense. As he so often does he seemed to grow as the game approached its crescendo. He has developed this new trait of receiving the ball, standing still for a moment and then cranking through the gears as his powerful legs compel him over the advantage line. Is there a better lock in the game at present? Just an enormous contribution from the enormous man.

5. Ruan Nortje – 6
The occasional good read on the All Blacks lineout, as well as some stiff carries and tackles, doesn’t quite make up for the chaos that was the Springboks’ lineout in the first half. Too many decoy jumpers and overcomplicated routines looked a bit amateur at times. But he will learn from the experience and deserves credit for making 16 tackles, more than anyone else on the pitch.

6. Siya Kolisi – 7 (replaced by Kwagga Smith, 56)
Was everywhere. In the loose, in heavy traffic, charging with the ball and hurling himself into contact. Did it all with a fractured cheekbone having promised this week that everything he did on the pitch was for his country. Sometimes the guff served by the Boks can be saccharine, but when it is backed up by performances such as this one it all starts to make sense. That he scored the try that shifted momentum is a fitting thread to the narrative.

7. Pieter-Steph du Toit – 7
Not his usual elite performance but he still hammered 13 tackles and made 31 metres in the carry, mostly into two All Blacks from close range. That might be his most quiet game in green and it still deserves an above average score.

….   

Schplottttt!

Of course Rooinek soured a pleasant string and Draad pathetically supported the man that treats  him like a door mat. Fortunately I was able to answer the silly challenge. 

You two really are seriously screwed up characters,

Wehe . . . so I Google "SA player ratings vs England" and paste the first three results that I find . . . and then Moffie runs off to scour the internet and half an hour later he finally finds one that gives Eben a higher rating and posts it with a triumphant (but plagiarised) "Schplott".

LMAO!

The pathetically biased view s of the Grumpy Old Men (think ou Maaik when it comes to Andre Esterhuizen or Moffie when it comes to PSdT) are well known on this board. Anyone who takes either of these two decrepit old clowns seriously needs to have a long hard think.

So that was your challenge…here’s your answer:

4. Eben Etzebeth – 8
Immense. As he so often does he seemed to grow as the game approached its crescendo. He has developed this new trait of receiving the ball, standing still for a moment and then cranking through the gears as his powerful legs compel him over the advantage line. Is there a better lock in the game at present? Just an enormous contribution from the enormous man.

5. Ruan Nortje – 6
The occasional good read on the All Blacks lineout, as well as some stiff carries and tackles, doesn’t quite make up for the chaos that was the Springboks’ lineout in the first half. Too many decoy jumpers and overcomplicated routines looked a bit amateur at times. But he will learn from the experience and deserves credit for making 16 tackles, more than anyone else on the pitch.

6. Siya Kolisi – 7 (replaced by Kwagga Smith, 56)
Was everywhere. In the loose, in heavy traffic, charging with the ball and hurling himself into contact. Did it all with a fractured cheekbone having promised this week that everything he did on the pitch was for his country. Sometimes the guff served by the Boks can be saccharine, but when it is backed up by performances such as this one it all starts to make sense. That he scored the try that shifted momentum is a fitting thread to the narrative.

7. Pieter-Steph du Toit – 7
Not his usual elite performance but he still hammered 13 tackles and made 31 metres in the carry, mostly into two All Blacks from close range. That might be his most quiet game in green and it still deserves an above average score.

Game, set and Match!

so I Google "SA player ratings vs England" and paste the first three results

Asks for contrary evidence, gets presented said evidence, scoffs at evidence because evidence was found by using a search engine. Strange, I thought that was how you found things on the internet.

As to your original claim:

Is that your only claim . . . the last test . . . where every rugby website diagrees with you?

Well I guess MP is not the only making contentious claims, huh?

"Of course Rooinek soured a pleasant string and Draad pathetically supported the man that treats  him like a door mat. Fortunately I was able to answer the silly challenge. 

You two really are seriously screwed up characters"

I support the facts the way I see them...the fact that me and Rudehole is in agreement with that is inconsequential...and a mathematician like you should know that...the fact that you can't recognize that is actually more consequential...I stand by my principals as I see them, regardless of which side of the fence...if you still don't know this after all these years,  mabe you should invest in a pencil sharpener...

And yet, it's 3-1 to PSdT on the websites found.

Schplott!

Just out of interest, is this the only test match you and MNoob are disputing? There were several others . . . how about the winning test against the Pumas when PSdT scored 2 tries . . . or the 1st Wallabies test when PSdT scored another try and was praised by rugby followers around the world . . . or are you two clowns going to just push the England test and hope that 6 -1 doesn't seem so bad?

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha!

Just admit you were wrong…this is a CleverMike type moment. Stop trying to introduce new elements into the argument, it’s transparent.

Go ahead, you can do it, you’ll feel better.

I used what I saw with my own eyes….it might not be the best but it’s original….

I didn’t feel the need to really carry on with this senseless argument ,

as they are both great players that is equally important to Bok success!

This Rooinek is a sad sack of a person always getting pleasure in attacking other people for no reason what’s so ever….

But it’s his way of feeling important and I made the mistake of thinking he is a better person but he is not..

Geez bro get a life and it will ultimately never make you feel better about yourself, to break other people down….

I see, so if I dare to state that PSdT is more deserving than Eben (and at least provide some evidence to support my claim) then I'm a sad loser who needs to get a life.

Got it.

Doesn' t change my view that PSdT has done more this year than Eben to deserve the award . . . but I'm still with the great Cheslin Kolbe.

"Geez bro get a life and it will ultimately never make you feel better about yourself, to brake other people down…."

It is what he does...it will never change...he's a misrable cretin, even when he's not completely wrong ...the fact that I'm agreeing with him on the issue, does not mean that I agree with the way he's doing it...you know that né?

M I put literally no value on these ratings. A few sites have some kind of model, most just cite a few things they think they saw and make up a number. Mostly it’s a popularity contest for camp followers.

Okay….enough of that crap. We have deserving candidates. Hopefully they don’t give it to Doris. That would be tough though, in turning down Eben last year the team could have felt a bit disrespected. Only once before has that happened Dusatoir of France got the award in 2011 after some dubious reffing in the WC final.

Rooinek I never once in my first post claimed that Eben is better than Pieter, I said they similar…. That’s it!!

You the one that carried on like a looney tune and making things personal??

Bye the way you can only dream of getting close to Moz or Pakie with there acumen ….and that counts for me to…

But the big difference is they are never condescending or deliberately try and humiliate a person…

Stop this act of yours because it ain’t working and in actual fact there is definitely signs that you are not this Dickhead , but somehow you try and up keep it…

Agreed...3 great candidates with Ox the glaring omission...we should have had 4 nominees...we were robbed...what a game changer Ox is....

No-one is debating your opening post chump, and I doubt anyone cares who you rate or don't . . . you started this with your response to my post made at 17h08 where you disagreed and refused to substantiate your rebuttal with anything other than your own biased and subjective opinion.

I stand by what I said that PSdT has ouplayed Eben in every test match they've started together this year and is therefore a more worthy selection. If you want to actually dispute that like an adult then go ahead . . . the floor is yours.

Yes Draad i know :)

"Stop this act  ( it's  not an act) of yours because it ain’t working and in actual fact there is definitely signs that you are not this Dickhead , (there are?...where?) but somehow you try and up keep it… 

You're wasting your time...it's not an act, it's the persona of one of his alters...this is how he is and how he wants to be....he's never gonna change...like a force of nature...accept it and living with it.

Having 3 in the mix (should be 4) says it all.

For the moment we're simply the best.

Caelan Doris is a worthy candidate . . . but for me, Cheslin Kolbe has been the difference in more games than any of the others.

I think Sacha would have wrapped up the breakout player if he'd stayed fit and shown his talent in the EOYT, but Wallace Sititi will probably get the vote . . . and it's hard to argue.

Hilarious thread with the Rugby noobs being taken to task. 

Mozzietard is back pedaling on Du Toit so fast that were the 100 m run backwards he would be a sure winner. Suddenly after all these years of trashing Du Toit he now claims that suddenly Du Toit has been much better this year. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I see Keo supports Du Toit who is possibly the greatest 7 EVER but thinks Cheslin will win the award.

All three Cheslin Etzebeth and Du Toit deserve the award. It's absurd that Chekin and Etzebeth haven't won the award yet and might never win it. 

Tough luck on Ox not being nominated. I also think Pollard could have been nominated. 

Rooitwit should apologise for hurting poor wee mampara powers feelings. Draad should not be so harsh on poor wee Rooitwit. Mozz should try being more objective rather than posting biased nonsense. Hahahahahahaha. 

Not back peddling HasBeen acknowledging what I see on the field. Here’s an interesting data point. I looked up Piet Spiere, the dominant world scrummager in the early sixties.  Check out his weight….Dave wouldn’t accept him at center. The game has moved on:

Du Toit in New Zealand in 1956
Birth name	Pieter Stephanus du Toit
Date of birth	9 October 1935
Place of birth	Petrusville, Union of South Africa
Date of death	26 February 1996(aged 60)
Place of death	Hermanus, Western Cape, South Africa
Height	1.85 m (6 ft 1 in)
Weight	95 kg (209 lb)
School	Paarl Boys' High School
University	University of Stellenbosch
Notable relative(s)	Pieter-Steph du Toit(grandson),  Johan du Toit(grandson)

This sia funny hread and  ey silly well as well.   Mczart  refer to teh AB test as to his disgust De Allende was the MOM and not Etzebeth,   Whenever he cmes up with anything he is a loser.

Now let me get abck to the past - in 2023 Du Toit was Player of the year because the Spring boks won the WC and Du Toit's election took plae only becuse the S pringboks win the WC/   and  Du Toit wa usekessm and hsi sleco aa sham.  

Player performancs ae assessed by experts with detailed performance in resspect of all tesds usl match  perfromance in every test played.     it has nothing t do with perofrmance sin one test,    The assssment akes into account all tests played.

Over the last 60 years the weight and size f player improved rapidly and Piet spiere was Pietr Stef Grandfather.    In 1938 there wa a Nel at lock described by the NZ papers as a giant ad he w also 6'1" tall,     The guys those years got their strength dvelopment from hard farm work  and helthy farm foods,    The times has changed and today's players ae much bigger and stronger,    There are also grworh and strengthening foma very og ge available to kids and crcate the bigger players we have at present,

The breakthrough players list is pretty tough. Feyi-Waboso has started really well for us but I should think Sititi might get the award.