Rapports top 30 Boks

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Dec 30, 2022, 17:03

Since readmission

Rapport’s Bok Top 30

1 Fourie du Preez

2 Joost van der Westhuizen

3 Bryan Habana

4 Os du Randt

5 Victor Matfield

6 Bakkies Botha

7 Schalk Burger

8 John Smit

9 Eben Etzebeth

10 Danie Gerber

11 Tendai Mtawarira

12 Pieter-Steph du Toit

13 Andre Venter

14 Andre Joubert

15 Jean de Villiers

16 Frans Steyn

17 Duane Vermeulen

18 Percy Montgomery

19 Naas Botha

20 Juan Smith

21 Mark Andrews

22 Ruben Kruger

23 Siya Kolisi

24 Chester Williams

25 Lukhanyo Am

26 Jaque Fourie

27 Malcolm Marx

28 Francois Pienaar

29 Bismarck du Plessis

30 Cheslin Kolbe

I would not have Montgomery, Pienaar and John Smit in there

I’d replace them with de Allende, Malherbe and Skinstad

The order is crap as well, Danie Gerber walks the top spot, Joost ahead of du Preez and Eben right up near the top certainly ahead of Schalk, Bakkies and Vic

Hard to leave Mordt, Kitshoff, JP and Pollard out

Dec 30, 2022, 18:19

Kolbe, Kolisi, Chester, PTSD don't belong in there. It's obvious this was a fan list with some politicking. A good number of those don't belong there. 

Dec 30, 2022, 18:28

Doos am I expected to respect your input here???

Dec 30, 2022, 19:02

PSDT does have the player of the year award, but that was also his best year ever. The other years have been neither here or there. 

Kolisi doesn't belong on this list at all. Mediocre at best. 

Well, just take the 3 World Cup winning teams, blend it with Nick Mallets Boks that won 17 in a row and then you may have a decent crop of players. 

But when I watch all these old player interviews, one thing that is clear is that our rugby administration was to provincial and never did the boks any favours in selecting poor coaches and not giving the boks a proper chance. 

If you look at the coaches we had. Ian Macintosh was a great Shark Coach but not great for the boks. We have Pieter De Villiers and Allistair Coetzee. Then don't forget Carel Du Plesis that was a club coach that got roped into playing for the boks. 

The fact is that SA was still amateur team for a very long time that took many years to get structures in place. 

Dec 30, 2022, 19:04

I don't expect swine to respect a banquet, no. Am a top 30 Bok, yet he ranks near the bottom for all top class centres. Lets put it this way, Gerber ranks as the top centre of all time and Jaque Fourie number 3 behind Umaga, yet Fourie ranks beneath Am. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Jean ranks far beneath Fourie, yet a little above Am. How did they work that one out? The most successful and highly decorated Springbok in Springbok history, with the most records for club and country and international rugby, Morné Steyn, didn't make the list. The man with the best points per test of any 10 in South Africa, and with a better try count than all other 10s and a tackle percentage of 83% (higher than the Boks this season!). Butch, the most talented Bok 10 of all time didn't make the list. Andre Venter? What the heck did Chester do to be on this list? 929 players have represented the Boks since June this year, I'd place Kolisi very close to the bottom, along with PTSD. I must give credit for resisting the urge to place Damian in this list, though I'm sure they wanted to. Very little thought went into this list. 

Dec 30, 2022, 19:11

Korn, PTSD never had a good year. In fact, 2019 was a bad year. 17th best flank in super rugby that season, bottom of every stat for carries and defence. He didn't do anything very well and no big moments can be ascribed to him. He was a nobody. 

Dec 30, 2022, 20:40

Kolisi belongs on the list he is a class certainly a better option than Pienaar

Dec 30, 2022, 20:45

Kolisi is the poster boy for quotas. Kwotalisi. 

Dec 30, 2022, 22:00

Doos one would swear you knew your rugby and that your opinion carried weight

Like Rooi says with anything you say be assured the opposite is true

You could not get more literal than that

Dec 30, 2022, 22:19

In the face of legitimate information, close your ears and scream. 

Dec 30, 2022, 22:46

Is the shit you feed us - legitimate information in your opinion?


Dec 30, 2022, 23:11

You are becoming hysterical Saffex. Do stay focused and try to think these things through more carefully. There's a good wee tyke. 

Dec 30, 2022, 23:34

Hysterical? Are you delusional?

Dec 31, 2022, 01:12

This is weird.   Included in the dud coaches must surely be Meyer.   He and Cotzee was so poor and destructive that both were fired by the Clubs they were coaching due to gross incompetence.   Poor squad selection was a specialty of Meyer, who could not find anybody else that would appoint him to coach anything - so he is ow in an administrative official in a bank.  

Du Plessis was only coach for 5 months and in that short period he put together a squad of players that turned out to be one of the best 15 man rugby playing squads in SA ever and was inherited by Mallett who used to win 16 tests in a row.    Mallett was totally lost when he had to start replacing players in that squad and left the coaching job in disgrace.  

Then we also have Straueli and Viljoen as coaches.  When White took over the Springbok coaching job the Springboks was the number 5 rated team in the world.  The result was that although the Springboks did better in 2004  they were substandard in 2005 and 2006 and before the 2007 WC was the 4th ranked team in the world.     Under White the team returned to the dead backline game of the Springboks and that was played up to 2017.     Erasmus took over the coaching job after the Springboks were the number 7 ranked team at the end of both 2016 and 2017.

After some experimenting Erasmus in 2018 found the players needed to play 15 man rugby and using backline players on the basis of attacking backlines and players not being  in the backlines to defend only.    Primarily Erasmus specifically used loosies and even tight forwards like Etzebeth, Marx and De Jager that played a positive role in participating in backline attacks.   Like 2018 being an experimental year, 2022 was also an experimental year aimed at the 2023   Anyway it was no surprise that tin he 2019  WC the Springboks scored tries for the first time in WC Rugby and that in the case of the two tries Marx and Du Toit played an important part. 

I am more confident that the Springboks had a much better chance to win the WC trophy in 2023 than they had at the end of 2018.                  

Dec 31, 2022, 02:21

Du Plessis was only coach for 5 months and in that short period he put together a squad of players that turned out to be one of the best 15 man rugby playing squads in SA ever and was inherited by Mallett who used to win 16 tests in a row.   

Carel Debutants:

  • Edrich Lubbe
  • Pieter Rossouw
  • Percy Montgomery
  • Rassie Erasmus
  • Jannie de Beer
  • Werner Swanepoel
  • Warren Brosnihan
  • Braam Els
  • Schutte Bekker
  • Four players who would have more successful careers, though Monty was far from the player he would be in his later years at fullback. There was a lot of shuffling in the backs and forwards by Carel, especially the former. He hardly left something that he had built. Rather, he inherited an established core group of players and couldn't build around them with a sustainable model. Mallet, whom I hardly consider a great coach, clearly went in a different direction in selections, and play style. The results and output speak for themselves. Mallet earned the results he achieved with the team. Carel has no business connecting himself to that win streak. Even in his big win over Australia, the Boks conceded 22 points, comprising 3 tries. That's not a margin of defensive lapses that one should be comfortable with. It was an anomaly from a model that strikes only every so often, just like Mallet's high-scoring win over New Zealand in 2000 when he implemented the frantic recycling game to imitate the Brumbies. 

    The Boks of 2005 were excellent. The team of 2006 suffered these injuries yet still grew and made important strides that would pay dividends in the following season, which was highly successful: Injuries to Schalk Burger (broken neck), Bakkies Botha (calf surgery), Jean De Villiers (cracked rib), Bryan Habana (cracked rib), Butch James (groin and knee), André Pretorius (groin), Joe Van Niekerk (C5 & C6 vertebrae), Jacques Cronje (cracked rib), Danie Rossouw (hamstring), Juan Smith (left quadriceps), Eddie Andrews (back), BJ Botha (back surgery), CJ Van Der Linde (Leg), Gurthro Steenkamp (broken hand), Pedrie Wannenburg (wrist surgery), Marius Joubert (fractured hand) among other lesser injuries stretched the Bok's depth to its limit. 

    You have no idea what you are talking about Mr Clever. You get far, far too much basic information wrong. For a time I assumed it was carelessness resulting from arrogance, but now I see it is intentional. You will happily lie to deceive. I don't see where the boundary for this behaviour ends, therefore I presume the worst. 

    Dec 31, 2022, 02:22

    Once again….here are the facts. Stop ignoring them and lying:

    England top rugby world rankings

    Thursday, September 11, 2003 Posted: 1011 GMT ( 6:11 PM HKT)

    Story Tools

    LONDON, England -- England confirmed their status as World Cup favorites by being named the world's number one team by the International Board.

    The Six Nations champions top the first official rankings with 89.95 points out of a maximum 100, just ahead of Tri-nations champions New Zealand (89.8) with Six Nations runners-up Ireland a surprise third on 83.92.

    World champions Australia, who open their title defense against Argentina on October 10, are fourth on 83.81 with France fifth on 82.85.

    The only team participating in the World Cup outside the top-20 are Namibia, who are 25th, behind Portugal, Morocco, Korea, Russia and Chile.

    Rugby Board officials said the rankings were tested against a database of more than 4,500 international matches dating back to 1871.

    One rating point difference between countries is equivalent to two points on the field, therefore England, who play 17th-ranked Georgia (63.80) in their opening World Cup match in Perth on October 12, are expected to win by at least 52 points.

    When two teams meet the system also allows for a home field advantage equivalent to three rankings points (six points on the field).

    Top 20 IRB world rankings points:

    1. England 89.95 2. New Zealand 89.80 3. Ireland 83.92 4. Australia 83.81 5. France 82.85 6. South Africa 80.92 7. Argentina 80.00 8. Samoa 74.67 9. Scotland 74.42 10. Wales 74.24

    Boks end 2017 in 6th place on World rankings


    File: Pieter-Steph du Toit, Siya Kolisi and Lood de Jager of South Africa sing the national anthem before the 2017 Castle Lager Rugby Championship game between South Africa and New Zealand.

    ONDON - The Springboks will end 2017 where they started it, in sixth place in the World Rugby Rankings after falling one place on the back of their loss to Wales in Cardiff last Saturday.

    The Springboks fought back from a slow start that left them 21-3 down after 34 minutes with tries from Warrick Gelant, Handre Pollard and Jesse Kriel giving them a one-point lead going into the last quarter of the match.

    However, Leigh Halfpenny’s penalty 12 minutes from time gave the home side a 24-22 victory.

    Dec 31, 2022, 02:30


    Google the following -

    World Rugby Rankings - Wikipedia

    You will find the worst ranking of SA ever and that was in 2016 and 2017 and that ws in 2016 and 2017 when they were ranked as 7.

    Where did you get those rankings from?   


    Dec 31, 2022, 02:41

    The Boks achieved 7th place after the loss to Wales in 2018. Get your facts straight Mr Deception. They also fell to 6th after the loss to New Zealand in the 2019 WC. 

    Dec 31, 2022, 04:34

    Sources provided above….this rubbish that Harrassmiss started at an all time low is annoying. He started at the same ranking as White. The difference was White raised his rankings and Harrassmiss dropped to 7th before ending 2018 at 5th:

    5) South Africa ? (2 places)

    Four matches this autumn, all decided by less than 10 points, with two wins and two defeats for the Springboks. There is no need for panic at this stage as the curtain comes down on Rassie Erasmus’s first year in charge, despite defeats by England and Wales. 

    ….started at 6, dropped to 7 before ending in 5th. 

    Jan 03, 2023, 00:45

    They dropped to 7th only because Rassie played the B side against Wales in the States

    Soon after that Rassie took us to number 1 within 18 months, winning the WC, the RC and Lions series in the process

    The best Bok coaching performance of all time - that very run. It was incredible

    Kitch’s unbeaten record along with Mallets unbeaten run are the only comparables to Rassie’s achievement

    Jan 03, 2023, 00:55

    Bok Side vs Wales - 2019 USA

    1. O Nche
    2. C Ralepelle
    3. W Louw
    4. J Jenkins
    5. P S du Toit
    6. K Smith
    7. O Mohoje
    8. D du Preez
    9. I van Zyl
    10. E Jantjies
    11. M Mapimpi
    12. A Esterhuizen
    13. J Kriel
    14. T Ismaiel
    15. C Bosch
    1. S Notshe
    2. W Gelant
    3. S Kitshoff
    4. T du Toit
    5. A van der Merwe
    6. M Orie
    7. E Papier
    8. R du Preez

    Jan 03, 2023, 01:01

    Exactly a B side

    Jan 03, 2023, 01:03

    That's a lot of firepower, but it does beg the question: Why did this B team perform better than the A team in November? You tee yourself up quite nicely my little pudgy golf ball... 

    Golf Ball GIFs | Tenor

    Jan 03, 2023, 01:06

    Nope it did not Rassie then took his A side to great heights within 18 months

    The best Bok coaching performance ever


    Jan 03, 2023, 01:22

    What happened on the 24.11.2018? 

    Jan 03, 2023, 01:34

    One day does not define Rassie amazing achievement of taking the Boks from 7th to 1st, winning the RC, WC and Lions series

    Your mate Jake never came close to that kind of coaching achievement at test level - not even close

    Jan 03, 2023, 01:40

    There is no evidence of Erasmus having ever coached a single day in his life. Nienaber's the man who did the coaching. Erasmus is a millstone around this mediocre team's neck. 

    Jan 03, 2023, 02:00

    Once again you are lying

    Neinaber is no coach the guy was a physio who learnt a bit about defence under the guidance of Rassie

    Neinaber record in Rassie’s absence has been piss poor - more evidence that he is no coach

    Go listen to the footage of what the Munster coaching team under Rassie had to say about him as a coach. One Irishman uses the term a coaching genius

    Your ignorant take on Neinaber being the coach and Rassie not is on par with the current Frans being better than Willemse

    A serious question are you really this fucking stupid or is all of this just a wind up?

    Serious question

    Jan 03, 2023, 02:09

    Well, your man Erasmus claims that Nienaber is the foremost expert on defensive system and the coaching thereof. A bit of an own goal for you old chap. :D

    Jan 03, 2023, 02:16

    Are you stupid enough to think that being the defence coach equates to being the lead coach?

    You are also lying that Rassie said that - kindly provide the source

    Anything Neinaber knows about coaching he learnt from his master Rassie as the man has never left Rassie’s side apart from the recent enforcement

    Fuck you are such easy pickings

    Jan 03, 2023, 02:20

    Erasmus leans quite heavily on his assistant. Without Nienaber, Erasmus doesn't have a coaching career. 

    Jan 03, 2023, 08:18

    l'Grande Merde

    You have no proof of everything of the BS you write on site.   Erasmus coached the Cheetahs when they beat the Bulls at Loftus to share the CC for the year with the Bulls.   He also coached the Stormers when they were successful in 2007 to 2009 - but then he was appointed as SA Dire3ctor of Rugby.   In the next six years the Stormers was a serial flop and in the end Meyer fucked up the Springboks royally as well.  The  fact is that Erasmus found it impossible to work with Meyer as rugby ignorance is bliss in the Meyer case.    He left the SA Director of Rugby post to coach Munster and was named the coach of the year in the Guiness Rugby series in 2017.    In January 2018 Representatives flew to Dublin to meet with Erasmus and he agreed to leave Munster and be appointed SA Rugby Director of Rugby - acting as Chief Coach until after the WC.   

    Erasmus laid down two conditions namely that -

    *     he would decide on the coaching appointments and SARU would conform his decisions in that regard; and

    *     the selection committee system be abolished and he and the coaching staff would select the squads and teams to play.  

    After he was left in the start of the series with a long list of players ignored by Coetzee and needed to find replacements to failed and retired players Erasmus decided to use 2018 to experiment to build up a squad to play in the WC.   In the Wales test you rave about there were only 5 players who previously had Springbok experience - the rest were experimental players.   Even then Wales only beat SA by 2 points entirely due to Robert du Preez knocking on a ball behind the goal line and the result was a try scored by Wales.

    Amongst the other failure in the experimental players used in 2018 and up to the RC in 2019 was Esterhuizen - who was not in the WC squad.   Interesting enough when Jesse Kriel got injured early in the WC series he was replaced by NOT Esterhuizen - but by WILLEMSE.   

    You have no idea about comprehensive player performance assessment - that being the reason for your constant total delusion about performance of players, as well as team performances.    


    Jan 03, 2023, 11:41

    The Cheetahs were already primed for success. They also had the excellent Hawie coaching the attack. Erasmus stayed long enough to reap praise, but not long enough to show what he was actually worth. His years at the Stormers showcased his mediocre coaching; he modeled the Boks on that mediocre blueprint. 

    Jan 03, 2023, 11:57

    "The Cheetahs were already primed for success. They also had the excellent Hawie coaching the attack. Erasmus stayed long enough to reap praise, but not long enough to show what he was actually worth. "

    What utter hogwash...Rassie built the Cheetahs from nowhere to CC champs in short time...you should watch the Rassie documentary...it exposed the good and the bad of the man...some cringe stuff at times, but good insight into what went down behind the scenes in South African Rugby all these years.

    Jan 03, 2023, 12:21

    No, you are wrong Draad. Very wrong. A slanted documentary? No thank you. I know all that I need to know. Erasmus has never built anything. 

    Jan 03, 2023, 14:10

    None as blind as those who refuse to look at what's right in front of them...

    Jan 03, 2023, 15:00

    Agreed, here, take these glasses. I have a microscope if necessary. 

    Jan 03, 2023, 16:05

    Do you use the microscope to study the shit you write on site.    A former boss of mine was at the match and so was I some distance away from him.   The Bulls were hot pot favorites to win the  match and the Cheetahs demolished them in the final.    My ex-boss - a rabid Bulls supporter - was so upset he had a heart attack and died on the spot.   So you were talking shit again.        

    Jan 03, 2023, 16:25

    Rassie leaning on Neinaber bwhaaaahaaaa

    Joke of the decade

    Doos you are priceless

    Jan 03, 2023, 17:59

    The joke of the decade is Damian De Allende, but the less said about that, the better.

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