Siya Kolisi Crocked, world cup in Doubt

Forum » Rugby » Siya Kolisi Crocked, world cup in Doubt

Apr 25, 2023, 08:33

So it looks like Sia had a really bad knee injury and may be out for 9 months. It is the dreaded ACL, but in his case a partial tear. 

I know Siaya had had some amazing performances but I'm also at odds because I see him less than a Pienaar type leader, but even then he was below par. I know Saffex rates him and I always like his attacking abilities. But I never rated him as a grinder. Players that can take the hits and the risk. 

We know in the World Cup Duanne was the guy rallying the troops under the post where see just stood back. 

We know Rassie was playing water boy and feeding Siya what to say. Don't forget that Video of Rassie, how many times did he plead and said poor Siya, he is black, got ignored. 

Now, who should the next Captain and who should be our 6. 

Let's start with the easy one


We have Kwagga and an automatic selection and can be our hooper. 

Van Staden, more industrious but not as fast or skillful. 

Deon Fourie, pushing 36 but when on the field has been a revelation for the Stormers in the last two years. 

Pepsi - been deputising for Kolisi but actually a very small 8 like Kwagga. 

I can't pick any other genuine 6s, I would even go with Marx instead as he is proper ball hawk. 


Etzebeth has been captain before but a bit dumb. 

Kittshoff has been the Stormer defacto Captain and done a great job but with the bomb squad and having a black brother always starting, makes it really hard.

Thomas Du Toit good leader for the sharks but same problem as kitsy. 

Pollard, is natural leader but our 10 and 10s don't always make the best captains.

The best captain in a position normally comes from 2 or 6. 

We had Jean De Billers with limited success. 

Then there is no way I can Dud De Allende leading the team. 

Then that leaves as with Duane, still performing for Ulster. Not his old self tearing up the midfield and fringes with his powerful carries but still very effective. 

Will we see Duanne back for one last bite at the cherry and finally leading the boks which might be 6 years too late.

Apr 25, 2023, 09:35

"Etzebeth has been captain before but a bit dumb. "

What an ignorant statement...but the enforcer can't be the captain.

Apr 25, 2023, 11:15

Etzebeth is definitely not dumb….the time he Captained the boks it brought the best out of him….Kitzie is a great Captain and I would go with him….Siya is not a leader, he mostly follows the other more experienced players….his form is also not at its best….Kwagga would be good replacement

Apr 25, 2023, 13:11

If Siya is out then I reckon Lukhanyo Am will be captain.

Apr 25, 2023, 13:13

". . . but the enforcer steroid abuser can't be the captain."


Apr 25, 2023, 15:07

Correct DbD only because he is to PALE.

Apr 25, 2023, 15:50

I get so angry that we now HAVE to pick 50% blacks no matter what. Not that we can't do it based on merit, but lets be honest, the player pool is not that big that you can just swap one player for another in all positions. 

We are very luck at 9, prop and hooker, but it will be very hard to get a quality lock or a big bruising loose forward. Most of them like Noche, Pepsi etc are all Kolisi size or smaller. 

Then, we just don't have another 13 and the only one we had has hardly featured for the bulls since leaving the lions. 

So now we have to chop one of our better teams. With out quota and purely merit selection I would go with Kittshof as captain, the guy can play an entire game, but because Rassie created this bomb squad, he has to make do with 30 min. 

Imagine having the following

  1. Kittshoff - Ox
  2. Marx - Bongi - Grobbler
  3. Malherbe - Du Toit
  4. Etzebeth - Jenkins 
  5. RG - PSTD
  6. Kwagga - Fourie 
  7. Du Preez - 
  8. Roos - Wiese
  9. Faf - Hendrikse - Zach Burger 
  10. Pollard - Libbok - Willemse
  11. Moodie 
  12. De Allende - Esterhuizen - Willemse
  13. Am - Kriel 
  14. Kolbe - Arendse 
  15. Wille - Fassi - Gelant - Willemse
Willemse is a bench player for me and somebody that can take over injured players, but he hasn't nailed down any of the spots. I almost feel that his only option now would be to focus on 15, or go to another province and nail down the 10 spot and only focus on 10. He is a fantastic player but like so many before him like Frans, jack of all trades, Master of none. 

But if you look at that team, there is enough player of colour just not in the top 15. 

Etzebeth is injured, Pollard just came back from long term injury, Am has been quiet in the last few months and need to regain form. So it only leaves Kittshoff. 

Maybe I was unfair on Etzebeth given that he is the enforcer. But the best captains in the world were amongst the forwards. Either hooker, 8 or flank

Apr 25, 2023, 16:14

"". . . but the enforcer steroid abuser can't be the captain."


Any proof of that?... present it then...quite slanderous accusation.

Apr 25, 2023, 16:56

The top players get tested all the time…surely if Eben was a steroid abuser, they would have known by now??

Apr 25, 2023, 17:21

It might be time to convert Kwagga into a specialist 6.

He is a good fetcher, but his impact off the bench will be missed- as he is currently the Bok's best impact player.

In terms of the new captain, my guess is that it will have to be a black person to Democratically represent the population.

AM is certainly deserving of being captain, so not really an issue in this instance.

Affirmative action has arguably ruled out any non-black players as Springbok captain. 

Apr 25, 2023, 17:43

He isn't merely the best "impact player", he is the best Bok, period. Why reduce his role to bench cameos? It makes no sense. It'd be like benching prime Habana for Mvovo, and saying, "if we start him, we'll miss his impact off the bench". Kolisi has never proven himself to be a test-caliber player, and his leadership has been many times worse than his performances as a player. Kolisi doesn't deserve to be a Bok. Etzebeth is the most obvious choice for captain. We really don't have many leaders in this Bok side, so how fortunate it is that we have Eben! Use him! 

Apr 25, 2023, 18:40

Eben would be a better choice than Am, as his presence alone carries weight….he has Captained before in the Bok setup and has more experience….Am is a excellent Rugby player and we need him there, but if he gets chosen as Captain, he will have to be guided by the more experienced and more worthy candidates…whatever happened to picking the right man for this Important Job?? Instead of picking the right Colour.

Apr 25, 2023, 18:41

I agree in principle that Kwagga should start.
However, I have noted that in games when he has started, he has not had his best games. Coincidence, perhaps. 

Kwagga was a very slow developer at test level. The coaching team stuck with him, and suddenly he clicked and he was a standout test player. 

Kolisi has some very good games, but he would be better as a number 8 than a 6 - given he rarely gets turnovers. 

A number 6 is the first to break from the scrum so they get more opportunities to get turnovers. They also don't usually jump in the lineout so their focus is on competing on the ground on opposition ball. 

Apr 25, 2023, 18:51

I have also noticed that sometimes when Kwagga starts, he is not as good as impact player….the stress of starting a game can sometimes be a bit to much and that off course effects your game…but by all means start him more so that he can settle in that position.

Apr 25, 2023, 21:55

Kolisi will be a huge loss both as player and captain, he is by far our best attacking forward.

Thankfully in Kwagga we have a good replacement and it means Deon Fourie will stand a better chance of making the cut

The captaincy would go to one of Eben, Am or Kitshoff although given Ox often starts, it will be down to Eben and Am.

Both would be good candidates that’s if Eben is fit by then

Best bet is to appoint Am as the captain

Apr 26, 2023, 10:46

Any proof of that?... present it then...quite slanderous accusation.

There is no proof: a proof is an element that carries over consequences. Like player suspension.
Pointless to ask for proof where there is none.

Globalists have a lot in common with the criminal world.

So smuggling, smugglers and border control forces.

Smugglers form a carter: each of them has the deepest interest in the border control forces appearing as efficient, except the efficiency must not be expressed at the expense of each cartel member's interests.

Cocaine smugglers: multiple outcomes, they may sacrifice collegially a small shipment (like 20 tons, big enough to make the news and increase the control force credibility) in order to smuggle 200 tons. Or they may look at screwing each other, the seized shipping comes from
rivals leaking information about each other's shippment etc

Side note: not only the seizure summons up the image of an efficient border force but it also helps pricing as the announcement of the seizure helps vendors to rise prices everywhere.

The seizure improves the credibility of the control force (control force is happy) The seizure improves rarity, hence allowing drugs sellers to cover for the loss of shipment (drugs sellers, smugglers happy)

Now winding the hands of time back by four years.

A high profile SA rugby player is caught using drugs.

SA rugby players post pics of the result of their preparation.

The pics raises questions.

A World of Rugby top dog (the second in charge) comes out of the woods to tell that drugs usage does not exist in rugby, that players are subjected to routine test, cheaters are caught as proven by the earlier example that happened just before the world cup.

No proof indeed.

Apr 26, 2023, 13:33

This pleb still banging on about stuff that nobody ever reads?

Apr 26, 2023, 14:28

That is called being self driven, self motivated etc

Can run long distances. After WW2, japanese soldiers on Pacific islands kept on the duty for decades as they ignored the war was over.

Apr 26, 2023, 15:07

Am would be the logical replacement as Captain I agree.

Apr 26, 2023, 15:28

Duane Vermuelen could be captain if he regains test form- but again might be ruled out along with Eztebeth for strategic transformation.

Apr 26, 2023, 15:33

kingcorn, I don't agree with you on Damian Willemse.

Yes, he's a great option to have on the bench because he covers every position other than scrumhalf but he's also close to being the best in nearly all those positions so to leave him on the bench just because he's versatile would be criminal.

He should start in a position where we are relatively weak and for me that's either #12 or #15.

I don't think Damian de Allende is as bad as his critics make him out to be and I also don't think he's as good as his fans think he is. He's solid enough but predictable. Damian Willemse is a far more talented player and #12 is where I'd play Willemse. Put de Allende or another centre on the bench and Willemse can move to wing or fullback if there's any backline injury. You're still cashing in on his versatility.

I know I'm in a minority of one when I say I've never really liked Willie le Roux as a player but fullback would be my second choice for Willemse to start. Willie is a gloryboy and a showpony.

Pollard, Am, Arendse and Kolbe are all nailed on starters and you're going to pick one of Moodie or Mapimpi, but don't waste Damian Willemse on the bench.

Apr 26, 2023, 15:44

Rudeneck,  you are starting to be more accurate than a broken clock...keep up the good form.

Apr 26, 2023, 16:24

Willemse is a pallette swap for Damian, aside from the erratic stepping. After his abysmal showings last season, he should never be brought into conversation again. It's amazing how effortlessly the so called fans ate up the malformed mess from last year. 

Apr 26, 2023, 16:47

Well, even a broken clock is right twice a day. That is if it is stationary and no moving parts. 

Willemse in another enigma, he is obsessed with chicken steps and wanting to cut through the defence. He always played 10 and that is where they should have left him but the Rassie had the brain fart to push him to 15 and then 12 because of his size. I liked having him at 12 because he can get closer to the 10 jumper, but I really want to see him compete at 10. But for that he needs to stop playing instinctively and know how to manage the gain line and his attack. That is what Pollard is great for and to a certain degree, Libbok, but he too gets caught and coughs up the ball in contact. 

But, now that Libbok is at the Stormers, they have Sasha and Kuid Wolhouter, the next up and coming stars. 

I would like to see him develop into Pollards Replacement over the next 2 to 4 years but he really needs to be able stamp his authority on the game. 

The only other instinctive flyhal is Finn Russel, but, he backs up his talent with Sublime passes and can drop lob passes at pace and in space for his players to run onto. Richi is another player that is just insane and I think with Scott Robinson and Richi, we're going to see a revival coming from the all blacks next year. 

I like the Wilemse, but he needs to pick a spot and I mean HE needs to. 

We have Gelant, Fassi, Moodie, Arendse who are all pushing for the 15 spot. 

But I also think that Libbok, Willemse and Gelant was the reason the Stormers won last year, they could have done the same for the boks. 

Apr 26, 2023, 19:29

"Gelant was the reason the Stormers won last year, they could have done the same for the boks. "

I won't go that far, but Blommetjies is a poor replacement and one of the reasons our campaign will probably come to an end this weekend...

Apr 26, 2023, 20:20

Finn is intelligent. Willemse is not. Pollard and Willie are intelligent. Damian is not. There is your pattern. The unintelligent players are often defined as creative, feely players. It's instinctive play to run around frantically in an unconstructive way. In other words, an inborn tendency by definition (hence why they are incapable of learning and developing). The intelligent and creative players are intuitive - not a strength of South Africa. 

Apr 26, 2023, 21:11

What utter shit regarding Willemse, I agree with Rooi he is a phenomenal talent in my opinion.

He has it all - brilliant at beating defenders one on one through skill, the lad has great dancing feet and is a master at attacking space.

Has great vision as evidenced by that amazing try he set up for the Boks against England

More than anything he is tenacious, he just never gives up is always looking to be involved.

He is also physical and is a really good defender.

He is certainly not a 10, it’s his weakest position - he plays on instinct, you need more of a measured player at 10. Also his hand to foot is slow so is susceptible to the charge down. He can cover at 10 but should never be an option there

His best spot is 12, is useful at 15 and could easily play 13.

Willemse is a class act if you don’t see that fuck me what game you watching?

Apr 27, 2023, 06:42

Saffex, it's Doos XL, remember? Just be grateful that the ignorant rugby noob doesn't rate Willemse otherwise we'd have to re-think our opinion of him.

By the way, Willemse has also looked pretty handy on the wing both for province and country.

Apr 27, 2023, 08:56

Willemse is new to the Boks.

I don't mind what I've seen from him thus far. He's got spark, pace and a natural eye for a play. We could do much worse.

As time goes on, he'll learn to balance out responsibility with creativity and as it stands, he's already progressed nicely. Let's also remember that DDA sits at the heart of the "attack" and anyone struggles to shine when he's involved, as is evidenced by the low percentage of tries scored when he's had a hand in the play.

Willemse has my vote, though more in terms of natural ability than pedigree. Fortunately, pedigree can be attained, unlike natural ability.

A clear replacement for Willie after the WC in my opinion.

Apr 27, 2023, 17:35

I haven't seen any ability to read play and execute. Lots of lapses in skill and dead end runs. Creating pressure for Am in particular. When we consider that this poor play was against the worst All Blacks and Wallabies of all time, it truly becomes worrying. The Bok's supposed good attacking play, which was very mediocre, failed against the worst of opposition. Our key competition look to have improved. Have we? The ceiling is low for the likes of Willemse and Arendse et al. With that poor attacking ability comes a deteriorating defence. 

Apr 27, 2023, 19:41

Actually Rooi I was expecting nothing less from Dumb Doos, I don’t even read his shit unless I feel like a laugh

It was Kinghorns take on Willemse that surprised me - his takes are usually aligned with mine but certainly not when it comes to Willemse

Apr 27, 2023, 20:01

Kolisi's omission undoubtedly means Orie will be selected & might well be a candidate for the captaincy :ermm:

Apr 28, 2023, 05:30

All verifiable by film. You always fight video evidence Saffex. How long must you resist? This is how Mrs Searle and the like always come undone; learn from the experience. 

Apr 28, 2023, 08:15

Kindly provide the video evidence you liar

Apr 28, 2023, 12:48

Kolisi has the best body language in the  ANTHEM.

Apr 28, 2023, 13:14

I've provided entire seasons of a player's contributions for the Boks Saffex, you have brought nothing. You want to discuss a player's worth, for once actually reference something. You are unbelievably lazy. 

Apr 28, 2023, 20:55

Doos just as I thought you have fuck all substance - you are just a useless liar

Provide the video evidence or just shut the fuck up

Apr 28, 2023, 21:31

I’ve just read he might be fit after all; he’s had his knee op. 

Apr 29, 2023, 06:32

Make no mistake Kollisi is a good Rugby player….but I find it very hard to believe that he is our best attacking forward….and among all our talented loosies is he the best option according to merit???

Apr 29, 2023, 07:50

He's a 3 rd center, like DdA is a 3rd flanker...we play with 3 centers and with Marx on the field, 5 loosies.:D:P:D

Apr 29, 2023, 10:23

Damian is no flanker. He lacks the power. You can't have a flanker who lacks punching power in the line. 

As for Kolisi, what does he do well? He is a weak tackler, most of his tackles deemed successful on a stats sheet are tackle assist. These can be as little as putting hands on an attacker who is already going down, lending no stopping force. As per attack? He also lacks punching power in the line. He can be used as a link or cleaner with the outer pods. Usually grouped with a wing, Willie and/or 13. Line outs? A designated receiver. At the breakdown? Nothing. Can he pass? He does have some basic skills. No vision or ability to do much constitutively. His best runs have been on the seams, and very few of them amounted to more than a turnover. He has been lucky not to receive multiple red cards the past two seasons with his throat slams and spear tackles. He has no leadership either. Kolisi doesn't do anything very well. He is a big back masquerading as a forward. He could have been a centre. I'd say he is better than Damian right now. How good could he be? We'd have to see. 

Apr 29, 2023, 14:12

I’ve always had the impression Kolisi avoids contact. But playing for the Sharks this season he has looked more willing to take on the physical stuff. And now, perhaps for that reason, he has a serious injury.

They will race to get him back…. But if a fit Kolisi was a marginal contributor, a half baked Kolisi will be a passenger.

May 03, 2023, 11:56

Rumours are that Kolisi might still make it to the World Cup final, but we saw in the past what happens when you carry an injured player into the World Cup. It is a massive risk. Kolisi has had his time over the last 6 years and now it is time to get the next 6 in. 

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