Springboks looking for a new flyhalf . . .

Forum » Rugby » Springboks looking for a new flyhalf . . .

Sep 14, 2020, 14:13

If the Springboks do play in this year's Rugby Championship in Australia (which depends on overseas travel restrictions being lifted) then they'll need to find a new flyhalf after Handre Pollard picked a knee ligament injury playing for his French club Montpellier.

You can read the story here.

Big blow for the Boks chances if you ask me . . . assuming we play at all of course.

Sep 14, 2020, 19:09

The return of the coward....how nice.

Sep 14, 2020, 20:16

This looks like a rebuilding year after the World Cup. 

Australia has something like 22 uncapped players in their squad- and New Zealand has allowed some of the best players to go on sabbatical - and some are past their sell-by date- even last year.  

Apparently AM is going to be captain, not sure where Kolisi is. Jantjies or Frans Steyn look like the quick fix options at flyhalf to replace Pollard. 

The only problem is the Boks are number 1 in the rankings - and defending World Cup champs - so if they field a b-team it will still count as a test loss if that happens. That would make the Boks lose their top spot in the IRB rankings. Might be nicer for the Boks to just skip this year, and start again next year. 

Sep 14, 2020, 22:13

No problem we still have "Chicken" Jantjies to carry the team.

With all the changes in world rugby announced thus far it is possible that the "Goats" will only have to face Zimbabwe, Namibia, Angola, Malawi, Zambia, and Botswana.

Tough rounds as Skarkie and Chillitwat would say.

But in fact, that is about the teams that they will be on par with.

Sep 14, 2020, 22:23

Add Lood, RG Snyman and Etzebeth to the injured list

Jantjies is the obvious replacement for Pollard with Bosch or Willemse on the bench

Sep 14, 2020, 22:30

Bosch to me is who I would pick at 10. He has come on leaps and bounds this year. Not sure how long we should stick Jantjies. He is one of those frustrating players. Give him an open game and he will dominate or take the pressure off. 

In World Cup pool stages and even during the rugby championship last year he played really well against Australia and Argentina. Hopefully he can continue. 

But, please do not select Robert Du Preez, the press has been working over time to make sound like he is the best 10 in the premiership 

Sep 14, 2020, 22:31

Besides, not sure I want to play the kiwis this year given how far ahead they are and especially how close their local games has been. 

Their north vs south clash was a cracker and had all the drama. 

Sep 14, 2020, 22:59

Jantjies is not great defensively but Bosch is even worse.

Until Bosch bulks up and can offer some resistance he is not a test option yet

Sep 14, 2020, 23:11

I forgot about Bosch. He was sublime this year for the Sharks. He is also not as frail on defence. Maybe starting with Jantjies-and then bringing Bosch on in the second half to earn the starting position form the incumbent (after injuries).

The Sharks game plan was great and would suit running players like Bosch and Jantjies. To fast tempo for Frans Steyn at his current age. 

I have been a fan of Bosch for some time. He is an allround player: has the pace and finishing ability of a wing, with passing and playmaking ability, and a good kicker -for poles, territory and attack. 

Sep 15, 2020, 08:54

Jantjies is NOT a test level player and failed whenever they tried to use him in that position.   Bosch was tried and probably suffer from the same deficiency..   Frans Steyn is NOT a flyhalf and in the WD not used as center against top teams.   His career on test level ended  with the WC,   

The only player that will make the grade is Willemse and the chances are that with proper coaching he would be the one to chose for the longer term. .       

Sep 15, 2020, 10:34

Well Saffex, you can say the same thing about George Ford not being big enough, especially getting bull dozed by his former team mate. 

I think in SA we are just really lucky to have had physical flyhalves that helps the defence in the 10 channel. But normally you would expect a losie to cover it. 

Then, we also have Damien Willemse, but he just doesn't seem to have the right head on his shoulders and very similar in Jantjies mould that they are instinctive players and not generals. 

Rassie strategy never uses the 10s as a play maker but all of our play comes off our 9s. 

I do think we do ourselves a dis service by not having creative 10s or 12s, but then Willie has been plugging that whole for a long time when stepping into the 10 channel

Sep 15, 2020, 12:31

Mike stop speaking utter horseshit re Jantjies

King - for me with Pollard out, Jantjies has to start.

With 5/3 bench split I’d have Bosch on the bench but given the Boks go with the 6/2 split one of the backs has to be a 9 and the other an all rounder.

This is where Willemse fits the bill perfectly as he can cover 10, 12 and 15. I know Bosch can cover 15 but his lack of physicality puts him at a disadvantage as the bench all rounder at test level. I only see Bosch as a 10, but saying that Willemse at 10 scares me, he is not suited to 10 much like Frans Steyn was not but as a cover there it would be ok

Sep 15, 2020, 12:41

I'm with Mike on this one.....Jantjies is not Test level. Did he get a run in the WC? His day has come and gone besides if it's to be an experimental side what is there to experiment with him? We all know what he has to offer and what he has to offer doesn't embrace the future. 

Either of Bosch and Willemse fits experiment selection unless there's another wunderkind in the pipeline.

ps Kingcob there's a lot of sense in what you say...

Sep 15, 2020, 13:32

Willemse is overrated- especially at flyhalf.
His goose step is more useful on the dancefloor than in a competitive rugby match where time and space is limited.

Jantjies is easily the better player- given he has made it to 3 SuperRugby finals in a row. 
Willemse was even dropped for the Stormers at 10.  

Sep 15, 2020, 13:39

Maybe so.....Bosch though might be the answer as next best but to fly with Jantjies??....for what intent and purposes? 

Sep 15, 2020, 17:44

Jantjies did not feature in the WC because we went with a 6/2 bench split - meaning one scrum half and a utility back on the bench.

Willemse is super talented he just does not have the temperament or composure to play 10.

He thrives in the less pressure positions of 15 and possibly 12. Super talented player - Shark you are speaking kak other than him not being a 10.

As for Bosch, he is also talented but a liability in defence so not an option at 10 yet. He needs to bulk up and develop a hard edge to be the finished product

Sep 15, 2020, 17:44

Jantjies did not feature in the WC because we went with a 6/2 bench split - meaning one scrum half and a utility back on the bench.

Willemse is super talented he just does not have the temperament or composure to play 10.

He thrives in the less pressure positions of 15 and possibly 12. Super talented player - Shark you are speaking kak other than him not being a 10.

As for Bosch, he is also talented but a liability in defence so not an option at 10 yet. He needs to bulk up and develop a hard edge to be the finished product

Sep 15, 2020, 19:26

If we are going with an emerging team captained by Am it scarcely matters who plays flyhalf.....this is just the latest example of Bok non seriousness.

New Zealand never puts out a team designed to lose....we win a WC and immediately choose a team selected to avoid a real contest.

As for the candidates ......none of them are a future Bok 10....Jantjies is an old loser, the other two are young losers. That’s why Pollard is so crucial to Bok rugby.

Sep 15, 2020, 20:54

Choosing a development side after winning the WC is just fucking pathetic

Sep 15, 2020, 21:06

If they choose Jantjies they have to play a running game. Bosch gives more options at 10 man rugby. Bosch in broken play is also a roaming back and can score tries like a winger. 

Sep 15, 2020, 21:22

Bosch can’t tackle

Sep 16, 2020, 07:51

Are we over Willemse as a 10?

A bit more flamboyant than Pollard while physically a carbon copy. I rate him and he's yet to hit his prime. He'd be my pick.

Other than that, the only close to like for like swap might be Lionel Cronje. 

Jantjies is still our best attacking 10 so no need to swap him out as back up just yet.

Sep 16, 2020, 12:38

The problem with all the above is we had duds for coaches for eleven years and the impact of proper and good coaching  eliminates deficiencies and enhances  performance.  Look no further than Pollard as an example.   There is a huge difference between Pollard in 2015 and Pollard in 2019 - all of it hinges on the  way he was coached since the new coaching team took over in 2018.

Another example is De Allende who was outstanding in the WC and one of the most effective players in the Springboks backline.in that series.   

We have to look at the future and some new blood is essential.   The coaching staff will experiment with some players to ensure that we have the best available squad to defend the World Cup in 2023.     

Sep 16, 2020, 18:00

Can’t say I agree with your take on coaching Mike. A coach at test level does not coach skill sets, there might be the odd tweak here and there but by the time a professional player starts his career they are pretty much the package you will always have. Physically players get bigger for the most unless you are a lazy Mostert for instance.

Pollard was at his best when he played for the Baby Boks as was Jan Serfontein, so time spent with various coaches since then has added very little value.

Plum as for Willemse at 10 for me he just does not have the software for 10 much like Frans Steyn never. He can’t control a game from 10, does not have the composure or temperament to do so.

He is an instinct player better suited to less structured play. Therefore 10 is not the answer for him, it’s too much responsibility and pressure.

He is another Willie le Roux who is best suited to playing a roaming role. It’s why 15 is probably his best bet.

Unfortunately WP have cocked up big time signing Gelant whom I rate. It means Gelant will play 15 with Willemse sticking to 10 where he failed in this years few super rugby games - so much so he was moved to 15 in the last game they played before lockdown

Sep 23, 2020, 11:33

What about Van der Walt - he was kept out of the Lions team by Jantjies and is now making hay for Edinburgh?    I would prefer him to the nervous wreck Jantjies in the Springbok team. 

Sep 23, 2020, 12:53

Saffex, do you think Willemse will develop into a 10 or has he missed that boat. 

At 21 he still has a few years to develop. 

Although, Pollard had that temperament that a 10 should have from a very young age. The same can be said of Carter, Richie Muanga. 

So I'm not sure whether a player like Willemse can develop into our first choice 10. 

I'm not saying he can't play there, but more of a cover role for the Boks. In a pinch, he can fill the roll

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