Still want Roos at 12

He's not gonna get to play at 8 for the Boks.

Granted anything can happen and Hanekom needs to prove his body can handle it but, right now, Wiese, Cameron and Francke are ahead of him in the queue for 8. And honestly, I can't even see Hanekom getting the 8 jersey off of Wiese at the moment. Rassie might even look at Venter at 8 because he can clearly link well and had power for days.

Is there an 8 in a Test side that would get the jersey off of Wiese? At a push, big maybe, suspend disbelief for a second and one could argue for Savea or Montera. But you'd probably lose those arguments once all things are equal. So you've got potentially the form 8 in world rugby, and then three very strong candidates behind him, and that before you consider guys like Trokkie playing abroad at the moment. I don't see that as a fight that Roos can win. The competition is simply too stiff.

That being the case, if Roos wants to play test rugby, I think a hybrid role is his best bet.

Yesterday was, for me anyway, another day where he proved he should be playing at 12. My main evidence;

1) He keeps up with play very well. He seems to have a natural dog in him that wants to be involved everywhere and that makes him often the fist man there in support - now, if as has been attested to on here, Rassie wants a loosie type player at 12 to help ensure midfield ball, then Roos is exactly the type of guy that brings that. He has the speed to get there and enough power to hold a position over the ball.

2) His second try yesterday. He ran the space perfectly and kept the outside option open, then correctly decided to hold his line and run it in. That was a perfect 12s try. Showed a good awareness of playing the space and then the confidence in his pace and power to capitalise on Edinburgh's hesitation. He does have an enough power that once he gets through it's damn difficult to bring him down, but not enough that he can bash forwards around like he seems to think he can.

I'm still sticking to my guns and I believe that he needs to be tried at 12.

...or play Franchise rugby for ever.

Plum

Dream on - it just does and will not happen. B asedon recorded data thus far this year the situation is as follows" when it comes to performances at 12:-

1 De Allende

2 Milne

3 Wllemse

4 Roche

5 Vorster

6 Esterhuiizen

Not the bets i the world - bar perhaps De Allende . Estrhuizen had a sh ocker on S a trday insofar as ball skills are concerned, His ball skills on Satirday were poor and detructive and his defense was a joke jokre. Milne has had some good moments as to ball sense is concerned but his physical contribution is now what is required from test players,

Roos is not a backline player and will never e one. He does no have h necessary pace to play in any backline position, where reading of the game is also a factor, and that is where most of he listed pla yes aand Roos is concerned,

Roos is a definite loosie and not a center - so is Esterhuizen. proved in the tests he played in during 2025.

We have a center problem - especially at 12 and I am hoping tha Muller would be the longer term center solution - but he needs time to develop in the senior level. The other young gun that could be on the horizon is Gilliomee.

. . . ,

"Dream on - it just does and will not happen. B asedon recorded data thus far this year the situation is as follows" when it comes to performances at 12:-"

Kindly share this data, or if you'd be so kind, reveal your sources and provide a summary.

I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and not call BS immediately.

1 De Allende

2 Milne

3 Wllemse

4 Roche

5 Vorster

6 Esterhuiizen

LOL. "recorded data" nogal.

Roos at 12 is absolutely worth an experiment.

Just an example:=

Esterhuizen at center - tests played 22 - Tries scored 2

Played as loosie - tests played 5 - Tries scored 2

Via la defference.

Mike, you said stats recorded this year and mentioned numerous players.

I'm not asking for some random stats about one player's entire test career.

Do you have the stats the you mentioned or not?

Esterhuizen at center - tests played 22 - Tries scored 2

Played as loosie - tests played 5 - Tries scored 2

Enough to satisfy the kindergarten. Let's add to that to help Mike out:

Damian de Allende - 0 tries in his last 21 tests

In my opnion, just because he ran a good line and scored a try doesn’t mean he should be a 12.

Any good loose forward could have done that in that situation...Elrigh Louw, Francke Horn, Wiese, Kwagga and Hanekom.

That’s just showing he can support play and has pace and power as a loose forward.

Being a 12, you need vision, timing, offloads, knowing when to kick, putting your players into space. That’s not the same as just running hard and staying involved.

His strengths like his: "dog", his pace, his power, fetcher and linking play, suits much better at 6.

I agree that he is not the strong Thor or Wiese type 8, we need. I would try him at 6...he might just be the perfect solution going Forward.

I have said it before, a loose trio made up of: 6 Roos, 7 Elrigh Louw and 8 Cameron Hanekom, might be formidable.

". . . a loose trio made up of: 6 Roos, 7 Elrigh Louw and 8 Cameron Hanekom, might be formidable."

I'd switch Roos and Hanekom around but either way I'd take that loose trio in a heartbeat.

For me, 6 Cameron, 7 Venter, 8 Wiese.

"Being a 12, you need vision, timing, offloads, knowing when to kick, putting your players into space. That’s not the same as just running hard and staying involved."

How much of the above has DDA ever been good at?

Hence I mentioned "what Rassie wants from a 12", which is basically a loosie in midfield.

Not that Roos doesn't have those things, but if Rassie wanted timing, vision, offloads and putting players in space, he would not be selecting DDA.

Being a 12, you need vision, timing, offloads, knowing when to kick, putting your players into space. That’s not the same as just running hard and staying involved.

There I was thinking that Dud Allende is a 12. I think his last offload was in 2014 when his coach told him to ape SBW

Well, by selecting Willemse at 12, it seems he might be rethinking his strategy.

40 minutes at 12 in 2025 isn't proof that Rassie wants Willemse at 12 though. Especially when you consider how many easier games there were he could have given Willemse much more time at 12.

I’m not saying it proves anything. I’m saying that picking Damian Willemse at 12 suggests he might be rethinking the type of player he wants there, compared to more traditional options like Damian de Allende or André Esterhuizen.

Yes, and I'm saying that the limited time Willemse spent at 12 for the Boks this year, despite playing teams like Italy, Georgia and Wales, doesnt gel with what you're saying.

"Yes, and I'm saying that the limited time Willemse spent at 15 for the Boks this year, despite playing teams like Italy, Georgia and Wales, doesnt gel with what you're saying."

Did you mean #12 rather than #15 . . . because otherwise this doesn't make a lot of sense.

Yes haha

-fixed

Also some bad luck, as soon as Mills started looking good...knee injury.

Poor guy.

I don't feel that sorry for him though. The ladies in my family are already fawning over the little shit haha

Even if it was just for a limited time, why else pick Willemse at 12?

It clearly shows Rassie at least testing a different type of player in that position.

He's really gone off the boil a bit.

Maybe he's just gatol of never getting a look in?

Maybe he should apply in Italy? haha

Who you talking about, Chippo, Roos?

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/hacjivah-happy-to-be-stormers-hybrid-weapon/

More about hybrids...

Dayimani returns to France with a renewed willingness to embrace rugby’s evolution as a modern hybrid player.

The dynamic loose forward rejoined the Stormers in February after a near two-year stint with Racing 92 in Paris, where he experienced a different style of rugby and, at times, an unexpected positional shift.

“It’s obviously good to be back,” Dayimani said on Tuesday ahead of Saturday’s ICC last-16 playoff against Toulon. “The more things change, the more they stay the same. My role has changed a bit, though. I’m trying to serve the team more and fill in wherever it’s needed.”

The 28-year-old admitted his move back to Cape Town was influenced by several factors, including limited game time after a long injury lay-off, and a positional switch that didn’t suit him at the time.

I was out for seven months with an achilles injury,” he explained. “When I came back, I transitioned to the wing and played there for a few months. The coaches saw me as a hybrid player … 80% wing and 20% flank.

For me, it was about my career and getting the right game time. There was also the factor of my family. In the end, we reached an agreement that allowed me to come back home.”

Despite his initial reluctance, Dayimani said his time on the wing broadened his skill set significantly under coaches and former internationals Frédéric Michalak and Joe Rokocoko.

“In France, they told me, ‘If we don’t put you on the wing, it’s a waste.’ I spent three or four months training there, working on positioning, kicking and understanding the game from a different perspective,” he said.

“That has opened up my arsenal. If I’m needed on the wing, I’m not uncomfortable. I can play there, at centre or at flank. It depends on what the team needs.”

Dayimani’s France experience also reshaped his understanding of the game’s demands and its constant evolution, including contestable kicks which has become such a big part of rugby.

“The game is changing. If you look before, it was always coming down to the offload in games and everyone was just trying to offload.

“Before that, everyone was trying to play around the fringes and expose a vacuum. So every two or three years, there’s something new as teams try to innovate and identify space.

He added that with the new laws around escorts and blocking, wings and fullbacks are much more isolated “and it becomes a 50-50 and it’s broken play”.

Popped in for a good laugh and was not disappointed.

So here we have my good friend Plumpster advocating for Roos at 12 since Roos doesn't have the power to play 8 at test level. Of course Roos doesn't have the power to play like Wiese But it all depends on the role you want your number 8 to play. Eg a more roving like Kiwi Read or going back like Tommy Bedford played, or like Kwagga has played. If you look back few player have had the power of Thor or Wiese.

A elementary error by the Plumpster and if it wasn't for my post nobody would have realised it!! Hahahahaha.

But the hilarity increases when Plumpster suggests Roos can play test rugby at 12. That was a shock because the begining and the end of rugby for Plumpster is AE his pick at 12. Is Plumster admitting AE is a better J6!!!

Surprisingly Mampara Power suggests Roos could be tried with good effect at 6. I agree with the Mampara. Is this simply one random time Mampara gets it right or is the oak evolving.

Bwahahahahaha.

Erasmus Clearly doesn’t rate Roos. Case closed.

My pleasure, Beeno.

Glad I could be of service

Have a good day Plumster but be on guard regarding being led astray by Mozzie and Pakster.

As for Roos let's see how this goes. The guy is not without his good points.

Excellent post HasBeen, I’m definitely not to be trusted. Nor is Pakie with his constant references to braaivles….I think it’s a Venezuelan code thing, you might want to look into that.